Jedi Therapy: A comedy in five parts

[frogbeastegg]

First a tiny bit of background. This story used characters etc from Star Wars: Knights of the old Republic (I got an X-box on clearence just so I could play this. I hate Microsoft) so some of you may have heard of them, other not. This story does contain some spoilers for the game's plot but they are quite small.


If you wish to avoid spoilers do not read any further













Anyway Vandar is a Jedi Master from Yoda's species. Master Vrook is a grumpy old human male. Bastila is a Jedi prodegy who gets turned to the Darkside. (Darth) Revan is a Sith Lord. The characterisartion is not entirely accurate but hey, it is a comedy.

The story begins after the game ends.

You don't have to have played the game in order to read this, however if you are currently playing through the game I would come back and read this story later or you will ruin a plot point. And so with no further ado frogbeastegg productions is proud to present the main feature:



Jedi therapy
Or the redemption of Bastila part II, the bit no one is allowed to speak about.

“Right Bastila, in order to help you work through your Darkside feelings master Vrook and I are going to put you through a course of therapy.” rasped master Vandar. “When you have completed the therapy you may continue training as a Jedi.”
“As you wish masters” replied Bastila “I am eager to redeem myself and serve the light once more.”
“You will not find the therapy easy Bastila” said master Vrook, ‘happy’ as always. “You must learn to repress your feelings once again, we shall look into the very depths of your soul and generally poke and pry into your private life a lot.”
Bastila did not look very happy about this and she frowned as she spoke.
“Is this optional?”


Session number 1.

“In this exercise we shall study your subconscious mind.” said Vandar gravely, “we shall see how badly the Darkside has tainted your thoughts.” Master Vrook nodded before adding “We will show you a series of ink blots. You must tell us what you see in them and we will analyse what this means. Do not try to lie about what you see for the force makes any lies obvious.”
“I have never lied to the council before” replied Bastila serenely.
“What about that time you egged my hoverspeeder and blamed Juhanni?” demanded master Vandar. Bastila looked rather surprised
“Well, that must have been an exception” she explained rather sheepishly.
“And there was the time you left a pin on my chair so I sat on it, you said it was an accident”
“Um, well it must have been master. I was very young and we had been making wall displays in art class” mumbled Bastila, even more sheepish than before.
“You also skipped levitation class but when questioned you claimed you were there but I couldn’t see you. Something about a personal stealth device I recall.”
“Er, you have a long memory master Vandar. Don’t you forget anything?” Bastila was barely audible now.
“No”

Master Vrook cleared his throat “Can we get on with this? It’s seniors day down at the Jedi Juice bar and I want a drink sometime.”
“As you wish” replied Vandar, still watching Bastila closely. “Will you endeavour to tell the truth this time at least Bastila?”
“Yes master” said a still rather embarrassed Bastila. Vrook nodded, apparently satisfied.
“I will hold up a card, you must say the first thing the image reminds you of. Don’t lie and don’t revise your answers. Let us begin.” Vrook held up the first card.
“A ship.” Bastila replied. Vrook held up the second card.
“A speeder.” Vandar noted each answer on a data pad.
“A cup.”
“A planet being blown to asteroids.”
“A thermal detonator.”
“A fluffy kitten.”
Master Vandar with his head cut off by an angry Sith.” Vrook and Vandar exchanged a worried look.
“A Selkath being shot by a Sith.”
“Revan’s face mask.”

Vrook stopped holding up the cards and had a quick, whispered conversation with Vandar.
“Very well Bastila, that is enough for now. We have found out what we need.”
“Thank you masters, I shall go and meditate now.” Said Bastila, bowing elaborately and turning to leave. When she has gone Vandar turned to Vrook
“I hate that stupid, show off bow she does. It is very annoying. Perhaps we can say it is a manifestation of the Darkside and demand she stops doing it?” Vrook chuckled
“Now that is an excellent idea my friend, I shall add it to the list.”

Session 2.

The next day Bastila, Vandar and Vrook met in one of the combat training rooms.
“We have decided it is important to give you the chance to let your anger out in a safe environment.” said Vrook, “We have had these soft foam swords made to we can fight without causing each other damage.” Vandar picked up a tiny sword custom made for his small stature and swung it a few times. He said
“Feel free to release your anger and attack us without holding back” and moved into the on guard position. Bastila was rather more hesitant
“Are you sure masters, you could get hurt.”
“We are quite sure Bastila, now pick up a sword and attack us” demanded Vrook, “It’s not everyday we give a Jedi the chance to fight us you know.”
“Yes master, I am aware of this. Thank you for giving me this chance.” Bastila picked up foam sword and moved to attack Vrook. He stood there with his guard down and got hit a few times. “See Bastila, you cannot harm us with these soft weapons.” Bastila grinned and adjusted her grip on the sword, “It is as you say master.” Then she went berserk.

Vrook tried to block the rain of blows headed at him but failed to keep up. One blow hit him in the face and made his nose bleed, Vrook clutched his face and reeled back away from the furious onslaught while Vandar leaped at Bastila in an effort to draw her attention away from Vrook. Halfway through his leap Bastila swung her sword and batted him across the room like a ball. Eyes shining Bastila pumped her fist in the air and shouted “Home run.” As Vrook tried to rise he got bashed on the head and fell back down. Vandar decided to say where he was – upside down and propped against a wall. Bastila looked at the two felled masters with a manic gleam in her eyes, “Is that it? Come on you weaklings, I can take you Wanna try again?” when neither master moved Bastila started to chant “Now I am the master, now I am the master”. Vandar decided it would be a good idea to lapse into unconsciousness.

An hour later both Vrook and Vandar were wearing full battle armour and the three took up position to try the exercise again.

Three minutes later Bastila bowed elaborately as she left the room saying “Thank you masters, this has been most enjoyable”.

Vrook was once again crumpled up on the floor with his nose bleeding. “Whose idea was this again?” he asked in a rather strained voice.
“I did not think she could do this much damage with a soft sword.” replied Vandar, his voice muffled because he was stuffed upside down in the rubbish bin. “Her anger is most powerful.” There was a moment of silence before Vrook asked
“Do you think she will tell anyone how badly she beat us? This could ruin our reputation as deadly Jedi masters if it gets out.”
“If anyone says anything we can say we let her win.” Vandar said, his mind working feverishly to come up with a better excuse. There was another period of silence before Vandar spoke.
“Can you get me out of this bin please?”

Session 3.

The next day the trio met in one of the classrooms intended for the younger Jedi. Both Vrook and Vandar looked quite banged up, Bastila on the other hand was positively glowing with anticipation.
“Are we going to have another fight masters?” she asked, sounding unusually happy about the possibility.
“NO” shouted Vandar in a panic, before he got a hold on himself and added in a more normal voice “No, we think you have done well enough in releasing your anger. We will not need to do it again.” Vrook nodded rapidly in agreement. Bastila looked rather disappointed. Vandar gestured to a set of crayons and some paper on one of the desks. “We want you to draw us some pictures Bastila, pictures of what you are feeling. Try to draw what happened to you when Malak captured you and how you turned to the Darkside.” Bastila looked very disappointed, “I am not an artist master.”
“It is not important, rather we need to see what you feel and this is a much recommended approach.” rasped Vandar. Bastila sighed in resignation and picked up a crayon and started to draw.

Five minutes later Vrook and Vandar were studying the finished picture. “So this figure is you” said Vrook pointing to a stick figure tied to a rock.
“Yes master”
“And this one is Malak”, Vrook pointed to a stick figure with lightning coming out of his hands. “Who are all these grey people here?”
“They are Sith master. Malak thought it would be educational for them to watch a Jedi being tortured.” Vandar looked interested
“And was it educational for them?” he inquired.
“Oh yes master I taught them that endurance is fine and dandy on some occasions but what is really needed in situations like this is the power to rip someone’s head off telekinetically.”
“Er, that’s nice Bastila.” said Vrook weakly, but you didn’t…er, that is to say you didn’t actually….”
“Actually what master?”
“What Vrook is trying to ask, and making a complete mess of it, is did you rip their heads off?”
“Of course not master” said Bastila, sounding shocked. Vrook and Vandar relaxed.
“I strangled them.” Vrook and Vandar un-relaxed.

After Bastila had left (once again bowing elaborately) Vrook and Vandar looked at each other, then looked at the picture before looking back at each other. Finally Vrook spoke. “I need a drink” Vandar nodded sagely “Me too.”. After a pause Vrook added “Make it a double.”

Session 4.

The next day saw Bastila strapped into a chair with electrodes attacked to her arms.
“Now we are going to show you some holofilms of various Darkside events. If you show any interest in them we will give you a small electric shock.” Vandar explained, “This will train you to think the Darkside is bad.” Bastila did not look very happy, “This may not be a good idea masters, Malak tried something similar and look what happened to him.”
“We are not going to torture you Bastila” said Vrook, something in his tone hinting he might like to do just that, “The shocks will be a very low current.” Vrook started the film and joined Vandar at the back of the room.

Almost as soon as the films started to play Bastila was surrounded in a corona of low power lightning. As the film continued nothing changed.
“Perhaps the voltage is too low?” suggested Vrook.
“Yes, she does have more endurance than we believed. Turn it up a notch.” Vrook did as Vandar suggested and the lightning around Bastila grew brighter. A few minutes later they turned the voltage up again. Bastila still showed no reaction at all.
“This is not good, the treatment does not seem to be working.” Said Vandar, shaking his head sadly.
“Oh I don’t know, it is too soon to judge. After all she has only been shocked constantly for the last twenty minutes, why don’t we turn the voltage up some more – that might help” replied Vrook with a slightly evil grin.
“She did beat the crap out of us the other day.” Mused Vandar, “And she played a lot of mean tricks on me when she was a child. Ok then, let’s turn it to something that should really hurt.” The lightning surrounding Bastila grew too bright to look at but she still showed no reaction. Vrook felt his hair beginning to stand on end; he saw Vandar’s was doing the same. “Um, Vandar look at our hair. It shouldn’t be doing this, we aren’t the ones with electricity zapping us”
“Pay it no mind Vrook” replied Vandar, “There is nothing to worry about. It is only static electricity caused by the currents in this room. All the same we must turn the voltage up again, let us set it to maximum and get this over with.” Vrook did as his friend suggested and within a second a powerful lightning bolt blasted both Jedi masters. The electrical system overloaded and Bastila finally started paying the masters some attention.
“Oh, sorry about that” she said.

“What happened?” asked Vrook, his hair standing on end and wisps of smoke coming off his robes.
“It’s something I learned while I was with Malak” Bastila explained, “When you are stuck with a lightning happy Sith Lord you soon learn to earth electricity in nearby objects. Unfortunately it does tend to electrocute other people. I did warn you, you know”
“Oh.” Said Vrook in a deadpan voice. “That’s nice.”
“Can I go now masters?”
“Yes, run along Bastila.” Replied Vandar, trying to sound cheerful. Bastila freed herself, bowed elaborately and left.

Vrook looked at Vandar. “Much more of this and I’ll turn to the Darkside.”

Session 5.

This time the three met in the council’s main chambers. Vrook and Vandar looked very pleased with themselves for some reason.
“We have decided your therapy is complete Bastila” said Vandar happily, “You can rejoin the Jedi order and resume your training.”
“As you wish master” said Bastila bowing elaborately.
“There is just one thing Bastila” added Vrook, “We order you to never use the Darkside again. In fact it is your duty not to. Yep, duty. So there” as he said this last part Vrook was grinning manically.
“My duty? As you wish master.” Bastila bowed again and left.

“That was a master stroke Vandar” said Vrook, “How did you think of ordering her to stay away from the Darkside?”
“It was simple my friend. Bastila is crazy for duty; she will do exactly what you tell her if she believes it is her duty. She’s a sucker for that kind of thing.” Vandar looked very proud of himself. “She will never use the Darkside again, it is guaranteed. This is my best idea yet.”
“I have only one question my friend, why didn’t you do this in the first place?”
Vandar looked embarrassed, “Well, I had read about this anger therapy in my Readers Digest and it seemed like such a good way to deal with negative feelings and unpleasant memories. I thought it sounded interesting.”
“Interesting? You mean we have been through hell because you thought it sounded interesting?” Vandar just nodded, looking very embarrassed. Vrook glared at his friend in disbelief. Finally he got a hold on himself, “I have one more question”
“Ask away”
“Can we tell her it is her duty to stop doing that annoying bow?”



Finis.



froggy is back. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[The Wizard]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I like It's very witty and funny... gave me a good laugh too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Can't be arsed to buy KotOR tho... saving money for... well some game or another. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

First of all froggy, thanks for the heads up PM you sent me. I haven't been around much the last few weeks and I would've missed it otherwise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Second, have you finished the game already???? I am currently on Tatooine, the first planet I chose to go to after visiting Dantooine, so a long way to go yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I only get to play the game at bed time - something my pregnant wife likes to have as early as possible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif So I play the dutiful husband and play KOTOR on the little bedroom portable (rather than the 28 inch widescreen with surround sound in the living room http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif ) while she sleeps.

3rd, I saw your sub-title and thought aargggghhhh spoiler I've already suffered with a major plot spoiler from the one and only time I went to a spoiler free KOTOR forum, so I don't want any more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Rest assured however, when I've finished the game, I'll be back to read it all, and I look forward to it.

[frogbeastegg]

Yup, finished inside of a week with a lightside/male game. I have toyed around with darkside and female games and generally turned the game inside out and upside down. I've had it for a week. This is what happens when a game grips me - I can't put it down

Let's see, I've analysed the plot a fair bit, written a total of 8 pages on one of the characters (Bastila) over at the official Bioware forums because so few people understood her. Got a nice reply from the Dev who wrote the character for that. In addition to this story I am also putting together something provisionally titled Bastila's journal because someone asked how the game played out from her point of view. It started as an exercise but since people want to read it I will let it go public. KOTOR has been my muse - I've had a hard time writing recently, now I've played the game I haven't been able to stop

I've posted this story over at the Bioware forums because people have been asking to read my stuff, so far it has people rolling in the stands. Well, apart from one guy who said it was not funny and then posted again to say Buuuuuuh - what ever that is supposed to mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

KOTOR is the proud new entry into my top ten games of all time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The spoiler in this story isn't that major in that it doesn't reveal half the plot. It does reveal what happens to one of the main characters (nothing to do with Revan) though.

Hurry up and finish that game Most of the really good stuff to discuss is spoilerific

EDIT:Typos and a small clarification on the spoiler

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

The funny thing is that when I read the title I thought about Medieval uber/ immortal Kings and a compilation of all their uber exploits. Boy, I was disappointed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Or maybe not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Funny reading froggy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Louis,

[Mount Suribachi]

Froggy, can you post a like to all your stuff on the bioware forums? By the time I get round to wanting to read them, no doubt they'll have long since disappeared http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Then, when I want to read them, I just go here for the link http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Jedi Therapy the Bioware version (different feedback duh ) (http://swforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=272480&forum=76)

What do you think of Bastila topic (http://swforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=269483&forum=76) (mine is in the last few pages)

The other stuff is rather mundane (what armour looks worst - all head gear that's what Heaven knows how they designed such hideous helmets) so I won't link to that.

tiny problem
Bioware have a very strict policy for their boards - they delete all old topics very quickly and they lock topics when they hit 10 or more pages. The Bastila topic got locked shortly after I posted and it will vanish soon. This topic has some extremely massive spoilers in it (fate of a main character plus something to do with Revan) so if you haven't already been spoiled (I got my game ruined by a review with many unmarked spoilers) don't read them If you want to read them but don't want to get the game spoiled just yet I can copy my stuff over into this topic and mark it very obviously so you can come back and read it later.

This topic was created with the secondary function of hosting KOTOR discussions since the topic in the tavern got crushed by political threads. My reasoning is that this forum was created for stories and other examples of creativity, I don't see why they have to be soley TW related and I can see no reason not to expand the forums sphere a little as long as it stays primarily TW related. A bit like the monestery then, in that it is mostly TW related but not always. This is something of a test case - do we benefit from non TW related items? Can we discuss a story from a non TW source? Does this whole idea create an unstableness in the fabric of reality? Am I going to get strangled by the real mods for doing this? Only time will tell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Oh yeh, I've just figured out what you meant when you said subtitle = spoiler. I thought you meant the subtitle on the topic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif In my defence I had just pulled an all nighter working on this story and another one so I blame my lack of sleep for that stupidity Er, anyway I had posted in the intro that the following story contained spoilers, I thought people would read it in order.

What can I say apart from Oops followed by Oh my gosh I am incredibly sorry I had my game spoiled badly and I was hoping to avoid doing the same thing to someone else

Um, I'll go and edit the spoiler warning so it is in bold.

[Mount Suribachi]

hehe, thats OK froggy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif Like I said, the first time I went over to the Bioware forums, the first topic in the *non-spoiler* thread started

SPOILER ALERT

so I went to try and rescue Bastila when she went to the dark side but, without the spoiler warning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif . I haven't read another thread since...so your redemption of bastila thing wasn't that much of a surprise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif However, I still want to hear no more on the subject

SPOILERS OVER


Thanks for the links, I'll go to the threads and save them for future reference.

As for non-TW story discussion and test-case and all that...I asked a while ago for a separate political forum so we could reclaim the Tavern. If you want a non-America sucks thread to hang around, these are the kind of things you have to do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ Oct. 22 2003,19:32)]so I went to try and rescue Bastila when she went to the dark side but, without the spoiler warning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

If you already know about Bastila then my tale holds no more suprises - you are safe to read it whenever you wish http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

So I've done virtually everything on Manaan and Tatooine and I've just got to the lower shadowlands on Krashyyk. A few questions

1) Is it possible to upgrade your swoop racer? A few characters have mentioned about buying upgrades but I've not come across any. I suck at swoop racing btw

2) Pazaak. Is there any point to it? My careful research early in the game shows the CPU cheats horrendously *every time* in that stupid game. It took me about 10 games before I won a single hand, and another 10 before I managed to win a game (and that was just practising with that dude on Taris, no fancy cards or nothing)

3) How do I start the murder quest on Manaan? I've spoken to the Hotellier who told me about the murder, but no-one seems to want to get me to investigate. Tho that could be cos I went on trial for slaughtering all the sith in their base, hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Other than that, the game is great I'm level 15, so with Bastilla/Juhani/that old black dude in my party I've got some really cool force powers. Force Whirlwind rocks for comedy value

HK-47 is far and away my favourite character, tho I haven't been able to access his memory (my repair and computers is 1). I like Juhani too, tho that could just be the accent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif The rest of the characters I've found a bit bland - none of the great characters that laced BG, BG2 and PST.

Still not read your story or Bastilla posts.

[frogbeastegg]

1. You can't, it's a red herring. You are stuck with the rather slow swoop you start with. You don't need to race after you save Bastila, I did a few races but they are dull, tedious and take forever to load. They also cost money to enter so the winnings aren't as big as they seem. I don't bother with swoop racing any more.

2. Is there a point to pazaak? No Thankfully you can totally ignore this annoying card game and miss nothing. The only real point to this is credits to waste in the shops.

In both cases you can safely ignore them, as cash is never really a problem unless you want to buy the best equipment for all the characters - a waste since you can only use two at a time. The only reason to change your party combination is the conversations you get when certain characters have been in your party for around 10 minutes, I can recommend Bastila/Mission, Bastila/Carth twice and Bastila/Canderous for some really funny conversations. Carth/Canderous is also interesting.

3. The murder quest is Jolee's (the 'old black dude' ) side quest. Take him in your party and wander around Manaan, a woman will run up to you and start wailing away about her husband. Agree to investigate and bingo This is a hard quest with many outcomes, follow up all the leads, use the force, trust an unknown benefactor and decide for yourself what justice is when you have the full story. There are three outcomes to the trial and many pieces of evidence to overlook beforehand. I've seen all the outcomes etc so if you want help yell. I think the woman is in West central; she is near the courts anyway.

HK-47 is a special case; his repair is his side quest. If you don't start as a scout or scoundrel you will probably never finish it, I certainly haven't because I don't waste my points in repair. Basically for each memory you repair he gains a stat boost. To fully repair him you need 18 points of repair skill. His memory returns fully in a plot event but you don't get the bonuses - I won't even hint at the event and his true story, suffice it to say it's a biggy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Most of the characters have a good story, you just have to put in the effort and choose the right options. Bastila has the most story and detail because she is both plot important and a love interest for a male character. Carth comes second, as long as you are a female character anyway - he spills more of his story as a love interest. Jolee is very funny and also interesting. Juhanni is a slow burning story but once it gets going there are some shocks in store. Canderous is fine if you like war stories. The rest are much shorter or are almost solely plot related, for example you only find out about Zaalbar on Kashyyk.

As far as force powers go I have a lingering addiction to force storm from my Darkside game. Love it - it does plenty of damage, hits many targets and looks damn cool to boot Outside of that I like the swirling lights of heal, whirlwind is funny - try using it on a large creature for extra laughs.

When you leave Kashyyk with the starmap you will hit one of best parts of the game. Report back after you know what I am talking about, I am interested in what you will think of that section.

[Mount Suribachi]

ooh I'm all excited now froggy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Thanks for the answers. I just finished cleansing Krashyyk of those Czerka scum last night, but now I gotta go to work for a 10 hour shift http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Bloody hell I never saw that coming

MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS


MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS









You weren't kidding about the whole leaving Kashyyk thing (tho I assume it happens whichever planet you do 3rd).

I thought it was all kicking off with all the getting captured thing, and that fight with the admiral on the bridge took me about 10 attempts. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Finally figured it out and pumped up on adrenal boosters I kicked their sith butt http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And then you meet Malak. I gotta say I had NO idea what was coming, then as all the little cut scenes started, with each one the penny started to drop and I was like no......no.....NO I remember back on Dantooine when one of the masters said something about the Dark Side and I thought is he referring to me?

hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

I was very annoyed by the fact that Bastilla felt the need to try and take on Malak, cos I was seriously kicking his butt before she intervened http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif Silly Woman.

So then onto the Sith academy. It was pretty cool, but I found it difficult to know how to complete some of the quests the Light side way without giving myself away (I'm ultra goody two shoes. I like to play the Hero, the Knight in Shining Armour in RPGs. My favourite ever character was as Lady Deburah of the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart in BG2. She was ace). So I ended up losing some Light Side points unintentionally http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif It was awesome tho after killing Uthar and that Sith Chick and just wiping out the Sith academy. All those Sith trainees thought they were so hard, hehe, they never reckoned on Nev Mace Dana and his companions the cool Jolee and the exotic Juhanni http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

So now I'm on the Unknown Planet and I just met up with those alien dudes (who I recognise from the Star Map on Kashyyk) who want me to go and kill the elders. Naturally I shall try and find a peaceful solution to this if possible.

So how close am I to the end?

[frogbeastegg]

Very close, you are on the unknown world after that it is the starforge and final confruntation. Maybe 5 hours at the outside. I'll post in detail tomorrow, right now I am so tired I will fall off my chair Be warned you are going to get an essay, both here and on the RPG thread.

Just wait til you see Bastila again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Be nice or else someone will be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Friendly tip - when you meet the elders doorbell don't say you are from the One If you do nasty things will happen. If you insist on doing what I told you not to save your game. I didn't and it cost me two hours of play.

[frogbeastegg]

If you haven’t played KOTOR than bug off, this is full of spoilers

Saul took 10 attempts? I managed to kill him in 1, although Carth and Bastila were both death and my character only had 3 HP left It is the hardest fight in the game for me, Davik is a close second and Malak is third. The rest are easy.

Ah yes, the revelation. I love that cutscene where all the clues get put together and slowly, slowly it dawns….you are Revan Even though I already knew who ‘I’ was it was an excellent reveal and it still surprised me. I saved before this scene and tried some of the different dialogue out, you know the nasty stuff like “Bastila, you used me” and the responses are interesting especially if you followed the romance. Made me feel so mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

So being frozen in stasis and about to be cut in half is your idea of “seriously kicking his butt”? From your battle with Saul I guess so http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Bastila saved your life again and once again she pays a high price, you should have got a few hints by now (cutscenes with Malak torturing her, my family always walk in when that cutscene comes up. They ruin it by saying astupid thins like that's not very nice Um, well it is brutal torure so what else would it be? It ruins my chance to hear the dialogue because they keep talking over it Next time I will remember to save before it and play the save when everyone is out&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and you have seen spoilers for it but when you actually meet her it is quite shocking to see what happened to her. Some players on the Bioware boards report that they went and killed Malak soley for vengence, one of them said they wanted an option to say “I’m not killing you for being evil, or betraying me. I’m killing you for what you did to Bastila you chinless [deleted]”. Some people were complaining that her fate was too nasty and unsettling, but I don’t think it was. The warning signs were there and while she is totally messed up and twisted a small part of her old character remains. Remember this, it will help you later.

I must admit I wish there was an option to trip Bastila as she goes charging in, she is always the linchpin of my party and no one can replace her skills. Jolee can do the force stuff but he can’t fight, Juhanni can fight but her force powers are very limited. My character could replace her but I don’t want to spend half of every battle buffing people up before charging in. Why couldn’t they have taken T3 or something? He is mostly useless after the Sith base on Taris.

The Sith academy gave me a real headache the first time I played it – I was soooo lightside I dug myself into a hole and the only way to proceed with the story was to betray Yuthura. Not very Jedi like. When I played through on the male/romance/darkside path I found something invaluable – you can do most of the prestige tasks without gaining any alignment points For example when the woman tries to take the holocron keep politely refusing and she attacks you, kill her in self defence and the holocron is yours and no alignment points are received. Same applies to the sword, give him a fake sword and no points, fix up the rogue droid for lightside points, save Mekel for lightside points, help the run away students escape and you have more than enough prestige to go.

You killed both Uthar and Yurthura? I only killed Uthar and talked Yurthura into thinking about her alignment. I didn’t manage to convert her but she is not as evil as she was, next time I will convert her. If one of the Sith masters survives you don’t have to fight your way out, killing both is reserved for my female/darkside/romance game in the near future.

I always end up as a very good character but I don’t act totally nice all the way through, for example I save that old man on Taris and leave him to sort his own money problems out. This counts as good but not nice and it suits me fine. The evil path was….hard. You have to do some unpleasant things after the temple, very unpleasant. I played through as mostly neutral and let the character go off the rails on Korriban with the excuse that it was a Sith planet and anyway his lady love just got captured and is being tortured and all that pain flows back along the bond to him, making him desperate to find and save her. The sentimental fool decides he can’t fight his love so he joins her and the rest is history. I just don’t have it in me to be really evil. My female/darkside/romance game will follow a similar bent with Carths mistrust and rejection after the Leviathan providing the catalyst for the fall.

I do love force storm though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The unknown planet is very pretty but rather dull. It irritated me immensely the first time through that whatever you do you have no choice but to wipe out one of the two settlements. The game forces you to become a murderer. Advice – save as soon as you hit the temple top, interesting things happen there and there is some excellent dialogue to play with that you may not want on your record for the game (I am Revan, bow before me Is always interesting but the consequences are bumpy ). Be aware that both of you leave alive or not at all, if someone runs off you have done nothing wrong. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cryptic clues from froggy inc. that could save your behind and answer those niggling questions if you thing something went wrong – chances are it didn’t.
-Before meeting the elders save your game, just in case you repeat my happy mistake. Trust me on this one.
-Save on the top of the temple.
-Save in starforge when you see a certain room with holographic maps. Keep reloading this bit if you want and try out all the dialogue – this is one of the highlights for dialogue hunters like me. I love this bit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif And yes, even if all goes well you have to fight three times. Remember who they were and who you are, this is the key. Also don’t take the person for a fool and try to persuade them, they really hate that
-Save before walking up to the figure in the brightly lit room after the holograms, very helpful indeed.
-Medpacks, lots of medpacks. Remember you can sometimes use them from the items menu to get an instant effect and avoid wasting a combat turn.
-Infinite enemies – you will know when you hit them and yes, they are infinite Don’t waste your time on them.
-Gun turrets, lots of gun turrets mean turn left for a nice surprise you won’t want to miss, and then go right.


tiny question when you meet Bastila ask her How can I trust you? and report back what she says - I want to see what a mess/good job you have made of her quests etc, since you are doing a male game.

[Mount Suribachi]

Froggy, I played on a bit today before I read your post. I just got in the Temple of the Ancients.

I too was saddened (and surprised) when The One jumped me after I returned from the Elders without any dialogue or anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I don't remember Malak putting me in stasis - maybe I missed it. I know what you mean about people talking during the cut scenes Originally I had subtitles turned off as I found I concentrated on the dialogue more, but them I turned 'em back on cos Mrs Suribachi kept talking to me *just as the dialogue would start*. This is a highly annoying trait that only women seem to possess (all my male friends agree with me on this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ). She also told me off when I refused to tell Saul anything and let Bastilla suffer. At first I was like hehe, torture her all you want sucker, I ain't talking. Then after about the 3rd bout of torture I'm thinking enough already.

Agreed, T3 is useless and has no character either. Does he even have a side quest? I used him to get into the Sith base on Taris then dumped him ASAP.

I got some of the quests done lightside on Korriban - let the runaways escape, handed over the fake sword http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I tried to convert that Sith ghost back to the lightside, but failed (3 times). I assume it is possible. The crazy droid, I had such fun charging up the tunnel blasting his droids that I completely missed the damping field which I only found on the way down *after* killing him. Bad level design IMHO cos there are enemies all the way up that tunnel, so you are constantly being engaged and so can't stop to pick anything up.

I killed Yuthura cos the only other dialogue option OK, off you go was so lame. If there was an option to persuade her to turn back, then I would've done it.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Nov. 07 2003,10:01)]tiny question when you meet Bastila ask her How can I trust you? and report back what she says - I want to see what a mess/good job you have made of her quests etc, since you are doing a male game.
I did and she said something like I only went with Malak cos I thought you were weak. Now I've fought you I know you are stronger than him. Together we can defeat him and rule the galaxy

Meanwhile, I am stuck on deck 2 with those %^*@(*&^(&@#*&$& infinite Sith http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I just can't get past 'em. Every time I get down to 1 to kill, another 5 appear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I can't run past 'em and ignore em cos always, at least 1 of my party decides to fight them so me and Jolee will be miles away from the fight whilst Juhani is getting wiped out by 6 sith. So you change to Juhani to extract her from the fight and my char and Jolee run back and rejoin the fight AAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH

I was getting seriously annoyed at this last night. I spent an hour trying to get past deck 2 with no succcess. I wanted to throw my xbox out the window. I finally gave up around midnight. The game has been too easy for all but 2 fights of the 55 hours I've played it, now it becomes impossible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Yes, Malak hits you with the same purple freezy thing that he used on the others. He is just about to kill you when Bastila speeds past and attacks him, giving Carth time to help you and escape.

Annoying trait only females possess? It’s my dad who keeps drowning out the speech My boyfriend also has the bad habit of phoning during really good cutscenes when I don’t have a way to go back and watch them Quite funny really, there he is spouting something romantic and I’m hopping from one foot to the next thinking “Agghh That is the first glimpse of Bastila in ages I know I’m going to have to fight her but I want to know why” or But the republic fleet is being destroyed

The torture is one of those moments you should keep a savegame so you can try out some of the alternative dialogue. When I did my darkside game I gave up on the third question, keeping the theme of a character who falls because he won’t harms his lady love ( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ) and I got really blasted by Bastila for it I can’t remember it exactly but she said something like “What? What the hell do you think you are doing? I can take the pain so why can’t you, in case you haven’t noticed I’M the one getting shocked here You are pathetic” She was unbelievably mad. I wonder what she would say if you gave up on all of them….Or if you say you kept quiet to see her suffer…. I have plans for the next time I reach that bit, one save game and a heck of a lot of reloading http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I shall disconnect the phone and play when there is no one else here just to be sure of seeing it all.

T3 is utterly useless past Taris; there is nothing else to him apart from his ability to build computer spikes. Even then I only ever managed to get one per game from him Stingy droid.

I converted the Sith ghost on my first game, you need high persuade and you must talk about how he could move on if he was able to forgive himself. Talk about how his masters would forgive his mistakes and welcome him back.

Bastila has two responses when you ask about her loyalty. The first is “your power will keep me in line”, the second is “I will be both your apprentice and lover”. As you might guess the second line means the romance is continuing, whereas the first often means that you didn’t start the romance, are female, or you have broken it somewhere along the line. Sometimes you can finish the romance when you get the first response but the second is more reliable. I want to know what happens to Bastila in your ending, I think maybe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif Incidentally the second line has a lot of men at the Bioware forums hopping up and down for joy and grinning like loons as they join the darkside. At the same time the Carth line “I love you Revan” has an equal number of female gamers jumping around. Makes me want to tell them “They are only game characters, it doesn’t mean anything”, the whole thing is marginally creepy.

Now for the starforge…
OK,. The Sith are infinite but you should be able to kill them quickly enough to get small gaps in the fighting. Use these gaps to progress as far as possible to the next door. Your party members will keep back tracking but if you keep to the edge of the fighting they will come back to you after the fighting is done allowing you to move on a bit before more Sith arrive. Don’t ever go back for the stuff that gets dropped or you will be there forever. It does take about an hour to work your way through this to the end with, er that’s spoilers really. If this section is annoying you too much try turning it down to easy and you will be able to kill the Sith faster.


Oh, and since you are past the unknown world I'll tell you about the elders doorbell. If you say you are from the One they kill you with some zappy purple/orange stuff. Insant death with no warning. I hadn't saved in ages. Not funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Nov. 08 2003,11:52)]Bastila has two responses when you ask about her loyalty. The first is “your power will keep me in line”, the second is “I will be both your apprentice and lover”. As you might guess the second line means the romance is continuing, whereas the first often means that you didn’t start the romance, are female, or you have broken it somewhere along the line.
Oh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


I did the Bastilla Romance - it felt very un-Jedi-ish the way I had to really hit on her, but hey, I got a snog out of it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I don't know what I could have done to break the Romance...I didn't tell on her when we were getting tortured, I didn't get angry with her when I found out about being Revan. I can't think what I might have done to upset her.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

As for the creepy emotional response on the bioware boards. You telling me your heart has never soared in a movie when the girl gets the guy you want them to? I don't see how KOTOR is different. My fave bit in BG2 is before you descend to take on Irenicus and you have a little bit of an emotional farewell speech with all your party members. Good games, like good books and good films give you an emotional attatchment to the characters. Now, if I could have a romance with Juhanni....yeah baby I wanted to deck that Sith dude who fancied her on Korriban http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Bastilla is a bit too snooty for my tastes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Anyway, I am now going to try and complete KOTOR. Thanks for the tip about turning the difficulty down. I may try it.

[frogbeastegg]

The romance may continue, it’s just that it didn’t for me when I get the ‘power’ line. When you find her again you may get some romance oriented dialogue options and if you do use them The romance will end properly then. If you don’t get them just be nice and remember who she was, if you are nice and don’t patronise her you may get the commiseration ending. If you pee her off or don’t act nice enough, or just make bad choices, well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif is your ending.

If you get the good outcome for your last meeting you get a nice scene before the boss, if you get the romance you get a really nice scene. It’s all heart melty.

BTW: You don’t have to hit on Bastila, you only need to be nice. Eventually she asks for the talk in private and as long as you don’t pick a “bug off” response when she tells you how she feels the romance continues.

You can actually have a romance with Juhanni – you need to be female Yup, a lesbian romance in a game. Personally I stick to Carth but I will probably get around to trying this path one day just to see what it is like.

I found the talk about Bastila/Carth creepy because people were talking about the romance as if the character loves them personally – the boards are full of topics discussing what people would like to do with/to Carth/Bastila/Mission. It’s not so much “hurray, Bastila and Revan are getting together” as “Yeh, I got me a hot Jedi chick I was mean to her and she likes it I’m going to [load of stuff that is not going to get anything less than an 18 rating] her” The Mission ones are worse – she is 14 for crying out loud Some of the Carth ones are equally disturbing. But hey, maybe I’m Queen Victoria reborn or something.

Bastila is very like me, the real me not froggy. In many ways it is like looking in a mirror, well as far as personality goes anyway I look nothing like her. That is one reason I have ended up analysing her character so much, I want to see exactly how similar we are and the answer is very. Some of my findings have been….disturbing. I would make the same choices, eventually I would fall to the darkside and I would be damn good at it as well. Basically a good person but not nice can lead to doing the right things in the wrong way. It is the same coldness, the same overconfidance, the same lack of confidance, the same pride, the same foolish bravery, the same devotion to those you know and trust, the same...everything right down to the accent and the way she talks. That is why I hate the worst outcome to the Bastila plot, but you haven't seen the end yet so I shall keep quiet on why. The only major difference is that I would never tell Revan how I felt. Maybe I should sue for copyright?



If you want the dialogue for the happy/romance ending depending on which is avilasble let me know and I shall supply it. Try it on your own first but if you cannot find the path I can shine a light. Most people find the sequance hard and cannot manage without help. I just chose what would work for me.

[Mount Suribachi]

yay Finished it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

First of all. I nearly gave up on the game cos of those 2 levels with the infinite Sith. It just drove me nuts, trying to kill them all off, move towards where you need to be going and stop your players running back to try and take on a poxy half dead sith soldier when suddenly another 5 sith appear in the opposite direction that you need to be going and draw you back to where you just came from http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Seriously, this annoyed me so much that

a) I don't know if I want to play another 60 hours with another character (was planning on light/female) to have to endure those 2 levels at the end

b) I hated them so much that they've actually tarnished the memory of the previous 60 hours superb gameplay. 24 hours ago this was my one of my all time favourite games. Right now, I'm just glad its all over.

Compared to the infinite Sith, fighting Bastilla was a doddle and Malak, whilst tough, I killed 1st time. I was going to write a letter of praise to Bioware over their game, now I want to write a poison pen letter. In case you can't tell, those last 2 levels have annoyed the hell out of me.

So I finally get to Bastilla and I got the I love you option yay (It was a persuade option, despite what you said about not using the persuade). And she agreed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif She said something about always wanting to hear that, then it was back to business. I told her to use her BM while I dealt with Malak and that was it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif No luvvy dovey cutscene, no extra dialogue, nothing (I did get the FMV of the space battle attacking a gap in the Sith fleet). Granted, I didn't strike up any more conversation with her while she was in BM, so maybe thats why. I went back and reloaded after finishing cos I wanted to see if the end was any different if I asked her to take on Malak with me, and I got to the same end point as before using same dialogue options, but suddenly she turned on me ?????? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Killed me too, Sith witch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif So I never did get to find out if its any different.

The next room with the droids drove me nuts (still fuming from the infinite Sith, remember?) until I finally figured out what was going on. At one point I started thinking If I have to go back 10 hours so I can get enough spikes to shut down all the droid generators I going to do [insert unspeakable things] to Bioware. Thankfully, I sorted it, phew http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Malak was relatively easy, had to run off a few times and ran out of life support and advanced medpacs, but I had (just) enough left in the tank http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The ending was cool and not so cool. I wanted a chance to speak to all the team, and not getting that chance was not so cool. Standing on the Temple ramp looking all proud as the fighters flew overhead and the Star Wars credits started up was very, very cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Juhani bats for the other side eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Shame, I really liked her. A lot of it is her exotic nature,and the accent is lovely http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But I also like her honesty and her passion. She makes me want to play Morrowind as a Khajit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Bastilla - I read your posts on her, wow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif You really identify with her huh? I know a lot of people whine about her folding to the dark side after all her preaching about it. Here is my theory.

Have you read any CS Lewis? If not, you should, the man was a superb writer. Anyway, in his biography (Surprised by Joy) he tells of why in his other books on Christianity (Mere Christianity, The Great Divorce, Screwtape Letters) there are certain sins that he talks at length about (pride, malice, jealousy, gossip, selfishness) and others which he hardly mentions (sexual sin, drunkeness being the biggies). He confesses that this is because he himself did not suffer with the latter sins, whereas the former he did struggle with. As such he felt qualified to talk about jealousy and gossip but felt he was not able to preach or write about say adultery because he knew nothing of it, or its temptation.

Likewise Bastilla. She feels the draw of the Dark Side. She has tasted it when she bonded with Revan. She is susceptible to it because she is proud and impatient and lacking in self-confidence. Because she knows of the draw of the dark side, she feels able to warn of said draw.

Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Finally, Jedi Therapy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif All I will say is about Bastillas dialogue. Often she sounds more like an American teenager than an English lady. When she hits Vandar in mid air she should shout Six rather than home run for eg. I am now going to try and find your Bastillas journal and check out all the other nice long threads in the spoilers forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

BTW, look out for me on the Bioware boards. I am Meatbag Nev.

[frogbeastegg]

Last levels - I didn't find them quite as bad as you did. They were annoying, dull and tedious but I seem to have been able to flow through them reasonably. It helps if your characters are built to cut through the enemy like a hot knife through butter. My Juhanni had two full-length lightsabres alongside master dual wield, master force armour (or what ever it is called) and master force speed. She was also buffed with master valour. Ouch. Malak was a dull, dull battle. On lightside I had no powers to kill the Jedi (apparently destroy droid works but it didn’t for me) so I had to wait for him to use them all. Thankfully I had over 80 medkits, 20 advanced medkits and 10 life support kits. On Darkside I just death fielded the heck out of the Jedi, healing and replenishing my force in the process. Then I kicked Malak in less than a minute.

Playing again - worth it Definitely worth it You cannot find all the dialogues and options the first time through. The Darkside ending is slightly cool (you and Bastila on a balcony, she announced the return of Revan and they start chanting long live Revan. Then she does that annoying bow. Cut to Sith fleet in perfect battle order slowly advancing to crush the last of the republic after the republics fleet was destroyed at starforge. ) There is also a damn cool cutscene before you get to starforge, Bastila pretends to be good still and tells the republic fleet to continue attacking. Utterly evil and very worth watching. You only need to do the boss one more time, after that you can do what I do - play up to Bastila and then quit. Also 60 hours? I go through it in 30 now I know what to do etc. I skip the worse quests, pazaak and swoop racing.

The thing that really put a damper on my last few hours of gameplay was the Elders doorbell. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

OK the Bastila outcomes.

Best - Talk to her about how she protected you, how she is still good, how she can be redeemed because you were. Then at the last dialogues you can either say you love her (if the romance is still active) or talk about battle meditation. If you say you love her she melts and starts calling you my love. If you don't say it she will ask you at the end of the talk before she goes off to mediate. You can say yes I do still love you, I'm not sure...with all that has happened....I need some time to think or No way. If you pick yes then it continues along the same course as saying it earlier. As you leave to take on Malak she says something like Be careful my love, come back to me when it is over I can’t remember whether she says that by default or whether you need to talk to her as she meditates.

Good - For characters who aren't doing the romance. There are no love options so you have to work on duty and redemption alone. This is much harder. If you get it right you just get sent off to kill Malak.

Bad - You try to persuade her with any of the non-love options, generally pick the wrong options. You manage to talk her back to the light but she believes she is such a danger she must die, the only way to prevent her falling again. She kneels down and you kill her. Damn creepy because I would also ask to die, the Bastila haters love this bit because she is mentally shattered and they kill her while laughing about it.

Worst – you don’t even bother to talk to her; you kill her in a fight at the first opportunity while she is still darksiding. Also a favourite for the haters.

Most of the persuade options lead to her feeling insulted or patronised and she attacks you or won't join you again so you have to kill her. You must have a good persuade skill as even the love options are risky. That is why you failed the second time - your persuade roll wasn't good enough. That is why I adviced avoiding them as far as possible.

Bastila won't take on Malak with you, she is afraid his presence would overwhelm her and send her back to the darkside. She will use her battle meditation to help the republic (any of the good outcomes) or you will kill her (any of the bad outcomes). No other options despite the many that seem to be presented.

The ending - rather crap I thought. I don't care about a medal I want to know what happens to my characters damn it Bastila is in the ending cutscene regardless of whether she is still alive, ditto Juhanni. HK-47 is also there even if you didn't buy him.

Make sure you read the unofficial ending on the Bioware forums, it is for the female/lightside/romance path but it does give a few hints, as well as being quite good. Jolee the Jedi master http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The droid room is easy, you can do what you did or you can bash the door down.

For my thoughts on Bastila's fall follow this link (http://pub169.ezboard.com/ftheunofficialswkotorfanmediaboardfrm17.showMessageRange?topicID=7.topic&start=81&stop=94), it leads to the unofficial KOTOR boards and I have a long post there on the subject. it is not very well written and it is confusing. Follow the page down; it is my third post on the topic.

Nice theory BTW, knowing the draw of the darkside would allow her to talk about it with some authority. I did read Lewis but I can't say I liked the blatant preaching in his books, I say use a scalpel not a sledgehammer

The Bastila's journal is not finished yet, I want to get it right in ever little detail. When it is done it will be on the Bioware forums, the site I gave you a link to above (it also has KOTOR fanfic, someone suggested I send Jedi Therapy there so I did) and I could put a copy here as well.

Jedi Therapy - glad you liked it. Bastila and the other characters weren't meant to sound exactly like they really are. I couldn't find a way to write it with the real characters as they wouldn't bother with therapy in the first place. Bastila would bottle it up, Vrook would moan and lecture and Vandar would shake his head a lot Some story that would be.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Nov. 09 2003,10:26)]On lightside I had no powers to kill the Jedi (apparently destroy droid works but it didn’t for me) so I had to wait for him to use them all.
Oh boy, you're gunna kick yourself when I tell you this.

Force Breach is all it takes to free them. They become one with the force and Malak doesn't get to use them. I just used force speed then whizzed round and took them out one by one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I did get the best ending it would appear, but because Bastillas tone of voice never changes, the words didn't have maybe the impact they should/could.

I did try going darkside as well when I reloaded that scene, but it would appear that your last chance for that is the Temple of the Ancients. BTW if you do as the one request and wipe out the elders can you still get in the temple or is that why you had to reload?

I'm now off to read your thoughts on Bastillas downfall http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[frogbeastegg]

:mumbles: Didn't have force breech. Never needed it, I just buffed up and cut everything into tiny pieces. Well I was a guardian at the time.

Funny that Bastila's voice didn't change at all - for me she practically melts and she becomes all 'nice'.

You can only choose your alignment at the temple so keep a save there and you can branch off whichever way you want. This is not very advisable due to the increased force costs for non-alignment powers. It also means you miss out on some funny stuff throughout the game. Loved being told by Bastila on Tatooine We have more important things to do than beat people up for petty credits http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Sounds just like me. Until the temple your alignment is fluid, afterwards it is set in stone.

If you kill the Elders the One will get you into the temple, if you kill the One the Elders let you in. There is no way to avoid mass murder and that annoys me no end.

Here's something to ponder on: If I am so damned similar to Bastila why do I enjoy teasing her so much? It is like teasing myself, she even quotes me at one point (Touched a nerve? No. Getting on my nerves, most definitely.) It's partly the voice acting and the dialogue but there is probably some convoluted psychological explanation for it which classes me as mad

Oh well, the mad amphibian is going back to work on the knights section. Joy. At least these discussions break things up somewhat.

[Mount Suribachi]

Did you PM Major Robert Dump the same time you did me about this thread? I think he was one who posted to say he was playing KOTOR in my original thread.

I read your posts that you linked too. Re: advice for your writing - you are probly the most coherent, thoughtful, grammatically correct and generally well written patron here, what advice could we give? I would certainly never have known you had dyslexia, so don't worry that that is holding you back in some way. Your style is reminiscent of Douglas Adams (as I've said before), what advice could we give? Just keep up those well written (and lengthy) posts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[frogbeastegg]

No, I didn't PM MRD because I didn't remember him being interested in KOTOR. I only remembered you starting the thread and it dying quickly, I thought you would be interested in the chance to use thread as a substitute.

As far as my writing goes this is one of the very few places I get anything positive. Everywhere else I get yelled at for being incoherant, long winded, dull, hard to follow etc etc. I have had people praise something I wrote until they find out I wrote it - you can barely spell how could you write something this good? It is obviously copied and it's crap anyway. I wanted to be an author when I was really young, I got convinced I couldn't write so I gave up. Fortunately history was a good back-up plan, even so my theories tend to get rubished and people stare at me whenever I contribue something to a discussion. Then they carefully pretend I said nothing and I don't exist anyway. Not sure if this is because the theory is bad, if they don't understand it or if it is too far above their heads and they would rather not break their cozy world view of how good they are.

Perhaps suprisingly Jedi Therapy is the only thing I have ever written and been happy with, the rest all have some glaring flaw that annoys me.

Gotta run - time commanders

[Mount Suribachi]

Is all the negative feedback a University/Academia thing?

If you mean other forums, well this forum (despite the childish shouting matches in the Tavern) is generally populated by intelligent well mannered adults. Not true of other game forums. Theres an ice hockey one I frequent where the average member is an 18 year old american male. I've posted stuff here that has been appreciated by the patrons - irony & satire & stuff. I posted same @ thunderpuck.com and I get You suck and lots of 3l33t speak....Also you're a woman, so that can sometimes blind peoples thinking....

[frogbeastegg]

School/collage/university/general life. The only place I get a nice comment is on the net. In the land of real life my rating alternates between being some kind of amazing prodegy and an idiot who can't do anything at all. Lovely paradox - you can do degree level geography while everyone else is doing the GCSE level work but you don't know anything about the subject. Your English analysis is better than the rest of the class but there is absolutely no need for you to do any of the higher level work, in fact you can stay in the average class. This teacher was then very upset that I passed my average exam with the highest marks (beating those who sat the extra exam as well as the standard one, they had more marks available) in the year and had to be put in the advanced class. That wa the nicer teachers.

At university I had a lecturer swear blind he had not had my essay, when I produced the results slip proving he had marked it and called it an excellent essay for a first year student he sat gasping like a fish before claiming it was deleted off his records. It was still on the computer when he called it up and the actual essay was on his desk right next to his elbow. He had simply failed to connect the name to the face and he lied to cover it. The essay suddenly shrank down to needing a lot of work, fortunately the grade was set in stone but he suddenly altered his attitude and started talking as though the essay was rubbish.

I have had my work copied by others and it gets better results without my name on it, that is how my 'friend' got into the higher classes by default. I got in because I passed the exams and they couldn't continue to claim I don't need to do the advanced work, you don't have the ability.

My oh so famous beginners guide would be dismissed as a dull, unnecessary piece of showboating. Anyone could have done that but they had the sense not to, not that you would ever understand that dear. Anyway the whole thing is pointless becasue no one needs your help, talk about delusions of grandier.

It is yet another similarity with Bastila - she is always getting told how fantastic she is but at the same time she is being told how bad she is. This creates both over confidance and underconfidance and you eventually believe you can't do anything right. The nice attitude I encountered here is the first time anyone has ever been so....accepting, I am more used to people attacking me than praising me. Honestly I still can't believe it.