Tips for English, early, normal?

[Vigi]

Greetings all. I am planning on starting a campaign as the English, in early, on Normal soon and I was wondering if any of you had any tips for me. What have you found that worked? Army combinations, province specialization? I can see some obvious ones, such as Wessex/ships. Wales/longbows when I can get them. But what about the rest? And how do you approach the French? Any help would be welcome.

Thanks, Vigi

[frogbeastegg]

This thread has some good tips for England on several difficulties. It illustrates the large variety of tactics you can use as the English very well, every single approach is covered at some point.

England tips (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=20;t=5892)

[Dhepee]

I know that froggy's thread says this but I can't emphasize it enough, TAKE FLANDERS
I routinely play as the English and you will go to war with France sooner or later. Flanders offers the French or anybody else for that matter, a direct route into Wessex. You can't blockade it with your navy, you can't do anything to stop them unless you control both sides of the land bridge. Once you have that your homelands are safe and you can begin to build an economy and an army. Protecting England itself is the key to getting the resources to win in Early.

[Vigi]

Well I started my campaign and right now it's actually going pretty well. The year is 1101 and my empire currently consists of the British Isles(except Ireland), flanders, anjou, aquitaine, navarre(IRON =))toulouse and normandy. I will soon have shipping up since I believe i have a year or two more on the shipyard being built in Wessex. Since I bribed wales I have some longbowmen in my army and I am sure that they will prove quite useful. I am about to invade il de france with the idea of razing their remaining infrastructure to the ground. If the Pope allows me to keep it, so much the better. I have three relatively strong armies right now. The army protecting my southern borders and newly conquered navarre consists of 4 spearmen and 4 hobilars, with Sir Trancred de normandie(4 starts but 5 with, ironically, the governorship of normandy :d) Flanders is protected by an army of 4 fyrd/4clansmen/3 archers. And I am invading ile de france with an army of archers/militamen and the bribed longbowmen, plus my five star prince in command.

At this point I guess my goals are to eliminate the french, or at least to push them to one province, preferably brittany if I take that route. The germans don't seem to have huge armies on my borders, although their armies are still decently sized. I bring in about 3000 a year, after expenses its about 1.2k. After the French I think I'm going to check out the danish empire and see if Sweden is available. If I can nab that I have another province with iron plus the ability to generate lots of wealth. I am low on money right now..only about 2k though I make a decent amount per turn, as shown above, so I'm trying to hold the building up of anything that is not desperately needed at this point, as money will be a bit tight until my shipping lanes are established and seeing how important they will be to getting my funds back into shape, I intend to save some money to ensure that they are built up.


So I would think my best bet at this point would be to bottle up and set up trade links, creating upgraded and powerful armies when the chance becomes available. After that I can pretty much foray out where I wish.


Any comments?

[Dhepee]

That's the route that I would go. I usually play in phases of expansion then building.

Your first priority is security, which for the English is containing the French. I would go ahead and destroy them outright, just to be done with it.

Make sure that each of your newly acquired provinces is well defended against revolts and make sure that you have an army that is ready to go in case someone comes after you.

I would not invade Denmark simply because their allies might go after you, or become more likely too, and there are easier ways to get provinces. Look for the Baltic provinces, that are usually in rebellion and go that route. Hold off going after Iron provinces for now, unless they are rebel. Once your sea lanes are open you will see rebel provinces all over the place.

Right now I would focus on building infrastructure. Pick two or three provinces and make them your core army builders. Try and get ahead of the curve in military technology in those two or three provinces. Everywhere else focus on building up your economy and your support units. Rebuild units that have been damaged in war time, it's cheaper than building new ones. Don't use high quality units for garrison duty. Tech up your farmland and trading posts. Build that fleet.

Be aware that once your trading empire reaches the Mediterranean the Italians might make a move for you.

Try to keep yourself free of wars for awhile, at least until you can get a couple of power stacks built up and a strong economy.

You won't need the iron so badly if you can build up your military provinces and move up the tech tree rapidly, a strong economy will help you do that tremendously.

Once you are consolidated and your position is strong then go for the iron and trade goods provinces. They do you no good if you start a region wide war and you lose other provinces and your best armies.

Be aware that pretty soon the Italians, Germans, Spanish or all three are going to feel threatened and start a war with you.

Have fun.

[Vigi]

Thanks for the tips http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. I would agree with you that the Germans and Italians will probably be my next biggest threat. I intend to have wales and mercia as my chief foot soldier/archer provinces. Aquitane I suppose, or perhaps Navarre will be relegated to calvary, as I currently don't really have any calvary provinces built up, aside from Aquitane. With the war against the French draining my economy, it's been difficult to build up everything at once, so, as I said, I'm concentrating on shipbuilding right now.


Thanks again for the input

[NewJeffCT]

I first try to bribe the Welsh to get longbows on my side early...I then attack the French quickly - take Flanders (most important) and Brittany, if possible. I like to take Brittany so I don't have to worry about having the French on both sides of me. Once I have Flanders, I try to make peace with the French (usually easier very early in the game)... and, I then concentrate on building up and taking Scotland and Ireland... then, I get some ships and move on to Norway & Sweden - make sure you get some archers to take out the vikings, as they have no missile troops in either province and archers can really whittle them down, and then use hobilars and/or mtd sargents to flank the vikings.

Once I have Scandanavia, the English Isles and western France under control, I work to expand my trade all over (Sweden & Flanders with just trading posts are huge producers) and also crusade to the holy lands of Antioch & Tripoli & Palestine. Of course, it is just for religious purposes and the farm and trade value of those provinces has nothing to do with it

[Lord Rom]

Yes I agree wholeheatedly with bribing the Welsh army. You will have 3 (if I remember correctly) groups of longbow. It takes alot of years to develop the longbow and they are great weapons against armored foes. They are also long range But do protect them because even at maximum development of castles it will be a long time before you can make more.
FOR KING AND COUNTRY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

Remember to get a Master Spearmaker in Mercia. v2 Billmen are sooo nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Vigi]

Longbows are great, but they sure do use up their ammo fast. Makes me wish I had some arbalesters in reserve to take a stride forward when they are out of ammo so I can withdraw them. But, I'll have that chance when it gets to high and then my enemies will see double trouble http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

[Brutal DLX]

Seems like you're doing well. Only one advice.. keep an eye on Iberia

[Reconquistador]

yeah gotta stop rampaginf almos.

i found it usefull to bribe scotland and pump highlanders.

cus as we all know the best thing against spears is swords. thus your the only one with cheap good swords men from the off and you butcher those peasants and spearmen that the french pump in the early stages.

that combined with the welsh longbows no one can touch you at the begining

[DojoRat]

Nothing much to add. I take out both Wales (bribe if possible)and Scotland and then turn my attention to France.
Flanders first and then Il de France. Flanders is rich and the Il has all the infrastructure, so once they are yours, the war is over really. After that, its reinvest and see what becomes available. Billmen, Longbows, and Highlanders, together with some Hobliars and kights, make for a nasty army. Have fun

[DojoRat]

Nothing much to add. I take out both Wales (bribe if possible)and Scotland and then turn my attention to France.
Flanders first and then Il de France. Flanders is rich and the Il has all the infrastructure, so once they are yours, the war is over really. After that, its reinvest and see what becomes available. Billmen, Longbows, and Highlanders, together with some Hobliars and kights, make for a nasty army. Have fun

[Vigi]

To be honest I'm beggining to wonder whether or not bribing scotland and wales in the beggining is worth it. When I do this route I always end up with very low funds and many turns where I am simply ending the turn to get funds enough to build things again. Perhaps I am over building, but I am building only what I deem nessecary. Forts/watchtowers/borderforts in every province, followed by military upgrades/ports/traders where needed for my soon to be shipping enterprises. I pump out as many troops as I think I can support. Like I said, however, when I bribe Wales and Scotland, that is already, bare minimum, 4-5k florins exausted on bribes alone. Where am I to find the rest of the money? I make a fair chunk per turn, but I also tend to spend it, since I generally see little reason in hoarding money. If I have it I spend it. Perhaps I am bribing these places too soon? Any tips on that?


Here is my basic build order, English, Early, Normal:
Wessex: Keep,port,trader, shipbuilder
Northumbria:watchtower,fort,port,trader,coppermines
Mercia:Fort-townwatch-spearmaker-watchtower-borderfort-keep
Normandy-Fort, townwatch-borderfort-farm upgrades whenever I have the cash to spare to get them
Anjou-Fort,townwatch,borderfort(If I feel it is secure enough to warrant investing, I turn it into my spy, assassin, bishop etc capital
Aquitane-townwatch,watchtower,borderfort,spearmaker,horse breeder, keep

Is that flawed? I generally take Flanders ASAP, likely my 2nd turn even, and build up a fort, watchtower, borderfort and farm upgrade there. After that a port and trader when I can.


Perhaps I am building too much, too quickly?

[Brutal DLX]

Yeah, don't build so many ports in the beginniny. Build one in Mercia, after you upgraded it to a keep. Instead build more farming after the border forts and town watches. Upgrade military buildings on the continent just in Aquitaine,which will be the province you should hold at all costs. The other military province (at least at the beginning) should be Wessex or Wales. You don't need shipping so early because you dont have the fund for building ships when you're at war with the French. When that happens, you need to pump all your money into unit-making. If the war is going well, or hasn't started, but you have funds to spare, build a port and shipyard in Aquitaine too. Only when it is clear you're winning over the French, start producing ships, and then build more ports. Ships first, ports one by one.
Oh, and bribing Scotland early may pay off because of the Highlanders, but you have to have a high garrison there and if this is your first time playing the English, better let them be rebels until you finished off the French. You can certainly win without the Highlanders.

[el_slapper]

And while borderforts are useful, they're not mandatory in the early game, especially in non-border, non-port provinces. Assassins & spies don't come that early, you can probably delay it a little bit...

[King John II]

My first campaign I played as the English. I played on normal as well.

I took Scotland and Wales with my starting troops, building peasant units to use for garrisons and to keep the conquered territories pacified until their loyalty recovered. I built up defensive garrisons in the french possessions and established a shipbuilding yard in Wessex.

When I had some ships and trade income was growing I went north, taking the Scandinavian countries and on into Russia.

The backbone of my armies were clansmen built in Scotland, vikings built in Norway and, later, gallowglasses built in Ireland. Once I had Denmark I pumped out longboats.

I built up Mercia with the intention of building cogs and Wales with the intention of training longbowmen. But that was misconceived. I reached the 60% point long, long before they were possible. I wanted to try a higher setting by then so accepted the chance to end that game at the 60% point.

None of the A1 powers ever opposed me with elite units and the rebels encountered were just large stacks of peasants and some spearmen. Italy challenged my domination of the seas (as she has at some point in each of the half dozen campaigns I have so far tried). But she only got two or three ships in her first strike and my longboats sank the Italian navy in about two years.

One idea I developed which I have used subsequently is to try to expand in a way that maintains trade. By which I mean stay well away from the territories of two or three powers with several coastal provinces who do not go in for navies - Spain for example. War with one inland power at a time if you can - the men of Novgorod and the HRE for example. And give a preference to taking provinces held by rebels - they do not engage in trade. You only need half a dozen provinces open to trade in order to keep a large trading income coming in. But once you are dominant it does take some effort to keep even that number of neutral or allied provinces available.

Consolidating the french possessions by taking Brittany and Flanders was on my mind for most of the early phase of the game. But there were always other priorities. So that came very late indeed. Maybe I was lucky in that I don't think the french ever challenged my garrisons. Nor did the Almohads become much of a sea power.

I suspect that the fast getaway influenced both those aspects, one way or another.

My impression is that England enjoys sufficient natural avantages to have quite a number of ways to win. Slugging it out with the french is certainly an option and Flanders would make a very attractive first objective. But I suspect the sea power route is the easier. Which, if true, is rather satisfying. Because England built quite an impressive medieval empire on continental Europe. But when she lost that one the next empire built on sea power and trade dwarfed it. So the strategic features of the game may have managed to mirror life. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[King John II]

The main point of building a watch tower is the 20% hike to happiness. That is useful whenever you conquer a new province but is particularly helpful at the outset when your own lands are not yet fully pacified. And you get another 10% for adding a border fort.

By way of a nice little bonus, getting cheap quick buildings up advances your king towards the early acquisition of a builder VnV - which adds another 10% to happiness throughout the realm.

Devoting some capital to shoring up happiness is one of the things you can do to avoid the necessity to maintain lots of garrison troops - who just sit there eating up your income and getting fat and lazy.

[Hangman]

Vigi,

I have played many campaigns as the English, and my preferred strategy is to build a strong foundation during the Early period, with all my efforts towards trade, building ships and merchant buildings. Keep the French quiet (with an alliance or a well-positioned standing army). Wars and any conflict I try and avoid at all costs – the only exception being weak rebel provinces that would improve my income. War and expansion costs money if you are going to be able to defend your newly conquered territories. I will generally wait until I achieve naval superiority (and consequent income) before my Mercian Billmen begin marching across Europe With a few cavalry and archer support units, an army of Billmen can be a formidable force.

Good luck with your campaign http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hangman

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

W e l c o m e to the Org Hangman. The text formating on these boards prevents making an ascii hangman. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Your campaign style shows much patience. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Thus is the path to victory (and fun).

[Hangman]

Thanks for the welcome Gregoshi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I think the most important thing I work on during a campaign is to only have the significant battles when I want them and against who I choose. The ability to review an opposing army and hand pick your own units to fight them will always give you a fighting chance.

If you are looking for global domination, when choosing a target faction to wage war against, do you take on the largest enemy you can find in an attempt to weaken him, or do you wipe out the smaller factions first?

Hangman

Edit: fixed bolding - Gregoshi

[mystic brew]

things to do... the mystic way.

Bribe the boyos in Wales.

All early moves for me are about building up to break the power of the French in two years. to that end I put an Inn in Anjou, thump out a few Hobilars from Aquitane, and shuffle my forces around so that I can attack Toulouse, Brittany and Flanders simultaneously. That's where the mercs can come in handy.

Toulouse is very important... It is the gateway to the med, and once you have built ships, you can tech up towards chivalric knights, that +1 valour is awesome

but as many have said, flanders is the most important.

Specialise the mainland - it's the most easily secure part of your fledgling Empire. Wessex for infantry (initially - but teching up towards cavalry), Mercia for footsoldiers, Northumbria for ships and Wales for Archers.

It is important to get that seapower going early, so you can sieze Scandanavia (for the steel and trade) and Ireland (for the cheap troops).

hope that helped.

[Vigi]

After a few practice attempts at the English i'm starting to notice a few things, so perhaps I can reinforce what others have said to help me :o.

Flanders- Makes a huge amount of money, every farm upgrade there seems to be worth it. Even if you don't upgrade it much(though why one wouldn't I don't know) just keeping other factions from having it will prevent them from flowing in the cash.

Toulouse- The french seem to build their troops there and at Ile De france. For some reason they seem intent on building a port and inn which they don't seem to use in brittany, so I tend to ignore Brittany if I feel I can get away with it.

Ile De France- Of course if you take this out, hell even if you just raid it, it seems to cripple the French to the extent that they can't come back.


The problem now that I can see is excommunication. The one time I tried to just say the hell with it and allow myself to get excommunicated, the Germans immediately decided to take a piece out of me and after a war with the French draining my resources, I never really had the chance to mount enough men to defend my borders.


Anyways thanks for the help everyone thats contributed. I feel I'm starting to formulate plans for my next attempt at domination.

[mystic brew]

excommunication is a bugger, so that's why I say break the power of the French in two years. The Pope will warn you, then you can finish your sieges...

tech up, attack simultaneously, kill the king and .. voila... france is yours in 2 years.

[Dhepee]

If you get excommunicated you can always just kill the pope. Early in the game the Papacy doesn't have a lot of border forts so a few assasins and you have a new friendly pope.

[Vigi]

Well the problem is funds are tight and I don't get assassins up quickly early in the game, much less good ones. Besides all that, my provinces take huge loyalty hits when I am excommed and the Germans will usually attack the next turn. As you can see, I don't have much time to rectify matters, generally :/. Especially after being somewhat expended after war with the French.

[The_Emperor]

My advice for an English Campaign is to sack France Immediately (Maybe Bribe the Welsh and Scots while the war rages)

In the begining no-one has the power to launch crusades so Excommunication is no big deal for King William II. France is weak, but their King has a massive Acumen rating and with him holding Rich provinces like Flanders any war against France later on you will be facing superior numbers of enemy troops.

Once France is yours and you have secured alliances with the surrounding Kingdoms, your free to truly tech up and prepare for conquest... A drive South is perhaps the less risky with only the Spanish lying between you and the Infidels who you can attack with impunity.

[Funky Phantom]

Not much to say that hasn't been said before:

1)Bribe Wales (for Longbows) and Scotland (Highlanders)
2)Take Flanders asap for economic and defensive reasons
3)Toulouse is vital in the long term due to its +1 valor bonus for Chiv Knights
4)Use Highlanders as the main infantry in your army since they shred units such as peasants and urban militia which form the bulk of early armies
5)Take all the Frenchies starting lands but be wary of Spaniards and Aragonese (these two covet Aquitaine), Germans and Italians.
6)Nab Norway and Sweden (Both for trade and Sweden for Iron) and Ireland (start building Gallowglasses instead of Highlanders at this point due to their better morale, charge and bonus vs armour)
7)Start teching up Wales to pump out Longbows, Mercia to pump out Billmen and Toulouse to pump out Chiv Knights, if you can get the valor bonuses in these provinces up to +2 by the time the units are available as well as giving them some armour and morale bonuses then your armies will be incredible in high

Im playing the English on early at the moment and i cant wait for the High era to roll around http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif