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Vigi
10-25-2003, 21:19
This seems like a silly question, but how do you folks execute flanking attacks with your calvary? I tend to have my calvary positioned on the left and right sides of my line and then I move them around when my infantry engage the enemy. This doesn't always seem to be so efficient however and I find it hard to micromanage them at times. But my main question is, when is it a good time to move around to flank? Do you begin to move them around the enemy before your troops are engaged? Basically, when do you begin to maneuver them and how do you go about it?

Cebei
10-25-2003, 21:34
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

You have probably asked the most will be answered post. Expect to get tons pf answers to this.. LOL and oh, welcome to the forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hahahaha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Vigi
10-25-2003, 21:55
Oh I'm just curious. I'm pretty decent at winning battles..Better at attacking, then defending, ironically. But, I'm always looking at ways to improve my game, so to speak.

And thanks for the welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cebei
10-25-2003, 22:07
Wow, very interesting. 20 minutes past and still no replies. Mmmm... something definitely wrong.

Anyway, I actually dont understand why you asked this, because it is as simple as you think it is. Perhaps you are using weaker cavalry against relatively powerful foe?

You are doing it right. You flank infantry when it is already engaged (with another infantry). Preferably, your infantry would have to have good defence. And also try wedge formation and charging from behind instead of flanking.

Vigi
10-25-2003, 22:10
Well what do I do if my line is engaged and I wish to flank yet the enemy has a second line rolling in? What do I do with my calvary in that situation? I can't really flank or they themselves will be flanked. I cant usually get them to charge through my lines either effectively, especially if my men are fighting spearmen..

Cebei
10-25-2003, 22:18
Your men are horse archers. Pepper and withdraw from the advancing troops so that some of the advancing lines withdraw back to regroup, during which you can flank and rout a single line. Turcoman horse are ideal for this. If there are multiple lines charging, trying to flank it with your cavalry will kill your cavs. In that situation your cavalry should run along the wings and engage archers covering the first lines. If there are no archers and only melee infantry, use your archers to reduce advancing lines.

Kraxis
10-25-2003, 22:26
Well, since you are already doing the right stuff Vigi I can only tell you two things.

First: Wait... Have tactical patience. Let the infantry engage and fight some, the AI will most likely send its reserves into the melee. That is the time to move the cavalry down to flank them. Remember to move them far enough and have some to take care of the enemy ranged units (so they don't flank your cavalry, might not sound dangerous but weak morale cavalry doesn't like it).

Second: Have strategic patience. That means, practice practice and even more practice. Eventually you will find what works for you (advise is good but finding your own way is much better).

Vigi
10-26-2003, 00:03
Wise words, Kraxis and Cebei. I currently play the English, so understandably I have a lot of archers in my armies. Partly because I feel that adds a unique little feel and partly because I want to learn how to employ them as effectively as possible. That said I didn't want to totally ignore the calvary aspect of my armies and so I was wondering if indeed I was doing things the right way. I suspected of course that I was doing things the right way, but if there was what is widely regarded as more effective way I figured why not throw it out there and see if there is. I guess if you guys don't mind I will also throw it some of my other tactical concerns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

1) I have heard that many use archers in 3ranks, loose formation. I currently use them in 2 ranks, which is technically the most efficient position IMO, but I'm curious to see how others employ their archers. Understandably my archers can't maneuver that well in a crisis, so I suppose that is a weakness in my employment, but I try to have them covered by knights on the flanks, and of course my line of spears and infantry.

2) I have taken to placing my anti-infantry units(men at arms basically) right behind my line of spears, in ranks of 2, generally. Sometimes 3. Again, I'm curious as where to where you guys tend to place them.


I suppose I should just show you guys my current army formation so you can understand where I'm coming from.


- = spears
] = swords
' = calvary
: = archers

------------------------------------------------
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ' '
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



A basic formation I would assume, but it seems pretty effective. But like you said, practice makes perfect and I'm sure I will find my own niche when it comes to favored formations, but at the moment that is what I have taken to using.

ChErNoByl
10-26-2003, 01:13
why is it good to have the swords behind the spears? I have chivilraeic men at arms on one side, and cavalry on the other so i can flank ...

also about the more than one line thing:

I like to flank them with one unit, and as that gets flanked i flank the flanking unit, and if that gets flanked i flank the 2nd flanking unit thats flanking my 1st flanking unit.

Loose Cannon
10-26-2003, 01:18
the AI is too stupid to to truly test stategic skills... so one can flank and the enemy will do squat...

The_Emperor
10-26-2003, 02:01
Generally I have a strong central line of Spearmen, protecting archers close behind... Men at Arms are slightly behind the Archers at key places as the tactical reserve to throw in if it all goes to hell

Cavalry are on the flanks of the men at arms units... I bring them around once the wall of spears is engaged and holding the enemy in position. (If the enemy does something real stupid like sending in archers unsupported, I might be tempted to run them down and withdraw back into formation if I can get away with it)

Any Horse archers or Javelinmen are sent out in front where they belong to harass the enemy on approach.

Nowake
10-26-2003, 02:05
Quote[/b] (Loose Cannon @ Oct. 26 2003,02:18)]the AI is too stupid to to truly test stategic skills... so one can flank and the enemy will do squat...
This is not entirely true ... he will lose, Loose Cannon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Degtyarev14.5
10-27-2003, 02:39
When playing on Hard or Expert, the AI will try fanatically to flank you with its own cav. I know this sounds suicidal, but to combat this I sometimes place my swords in the centre of the front line, with spears guarding the flanks. Of course, against a human opponent I would NEVER try this, but the AI falls for it surprisingly often.

Here's one of my favourites: flank with arquebusiers, and let rip http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif But keep them protected http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

A.

Oaty
10-27-2003, 02:45
I've quit doing mass flanking manuevers for the most part and leave gaps in my first line. I then either send shock troops in the gaps or cavalry depending whats there and what I have. Cavalry against spears can work quite well if hitting them in the flanks or there backs. My favorite is when I have 2 enemy spear units with a gap in them I charge the cavalry in between them and because there usually isnt enough room to get through untouched the cavalry end up hitting both units in the flanks wrapping around the back of there line. This of course is done when both spear units are already engaged and can't turn to face the cavalry

Brutal DLX
10-27-2003, 09:35
Archers, two ranks is normally ok, when I'm on attack or in narrow spaces, I often use them in wedge formation, concentrates fire and makes them use less space and maneuver more quickly. Not good for Xbows, though.

Flanking, normally I flank with sword or AP infantry and use cavalry to secure the perimeter, kill missile troops and charge into the melee from the rear. In that order.
Sword units are good to form the center of the battle line, but any army should have at least some anti-cav units, strategically deployed on the flanks and behind the center so you can counter quickly in any situation. During the early stages of a campaign, spearmen are of course the most common troop type in any army, but reduce their amount as new units become available.