River crossings

[jacko_uk]

Is there a strategy for attacking the enemy across a river in stw, I keep getting slaughtered losing far too many men.

Many thanks,
Jacko http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Kilgore]

i've just recently dusted of STW after a long hiatus, here's what i do:

first it helps to know what your up against (use a spy or watch tower), if your enemey lacks ranged units you will have a much easier time of it. so when attacking with ranged superiority you can be the one inflicting horrendous loses and forcing morale checks.

but usually that's not the case. one thing you want is your best general and high quality troops (morale bonuses) if possible. the real killer on bridge battles is having your one breakthrough unit get crushed by the combined might of the enemy, and then go running back through your lines. that sort of thing sends panic through your army.

army composition should include some missle units, and the hardest foot you can muster(some like naginata for this). also ashigaru with a morale or valour bonus are a great and cheap way to provoke the enemy into closing. that's what you want: to send over a unit and encourage the enemy to send one or more units to attack, thus bringing them into range of your missles. back your probe unit up a bit, either mid way across the bridge (use halt) or all the way back to your side (doesn't always work: sometimes the enemy won't follow). put that probe unit into hold formation and hold position: they're just there to hold the enemy while you shoot them.

notice, this is what the enemy defenders would like to do to you, and probably are doing if they have any kind of missle superiority. i always bring my missles right up to the beach, and try to have overwhelming superiority so i can target many of his units (especially the ones attacking mine on the bridge). you want to provoke him into attacking you, then you gain some of the advantages of the defender.

one more thing, arquebusiers and musketeers are very valuable on bridge maps becuase they can cause fear. often just getting a few key units to rout is all you need to storm across and secure a bridge head. no matter what you do take your biggest and your best, and don't be too squemish about casualties: they're inevitable.

one more option, the best from Sunzi's perspective, is to avoid or minimize the battle. if you border more than one enemy region try attacking him elsewhere to pull armies off the river, at the very least it may mean an easier battle. if your very lucky you might get the province wihout a fight

good luck

[ichi]

In addition to the ideas above, some things to experiment with:

If you have reinforcements, send (cheap,expendible) Ashigaru across first to soak up the enemy arrows.

Armored troops to minimize arrow damage.

If the enemy has lots of arrows don't send a bunch of units onto the bridge - one or two at a time until the arrows run out.

If you have arrows shoot at enemy archers, not at the bridge battle (where you kill as many of your guys as you do of the enemy).

Don't let your units tire and rout. Cycle units thru to keep fresh troops at the point of contact. Bring tired, decimated units back to your side to rest.

Keep your Gen close enough to get morale support, but not get arrowed.

Don't send cav onto bridge unless for final charge or to chase routers.

Once a unit hits the point of battle set to hold pos.

After your archers are out of ammo, organize them and place thme on the bridge to fight. Pull all of your good infantry off the bridge. When the archers rout the enemy may chase them over to your side. Just as the enemy comes off the bridge on your side hit them with all your guys from all sides.

Choose crapppy weather. Reduces enemy archer accuracy.

Kensai, Kensai, Kensai (and battlefield ninjas)

ichiRW

[Ironside]

Two tips that is quite cheap but working. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
nr 1. The reinforcements appears from all over the map (atleast in MI) so you could simply withdraw your first wave and use your second wave where half is on thr other side of the river. I haven't tried this but I have lost to the second wave of the comp when they used this tactic so it should work.
nr. 2 Bring a numerically inferior force in to battle. The comp will attack you instead and then you can use the bridge to your advantage witch will weaken the enemy and you'll be able to take the province the following year. Warning this is a very effective killer of the enemy diamyo. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

In practical combat Kilgore gave you some good tips.
And bevare of Uesugi Kenshin sitting in Echigo with only archers. My yari cavs lost to that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Kilgore]

great tip about bringing a numerically inferior force, i'll have to try that quality over quantity...

[The_Emperor]

I find the most effective tactic is to bait the enemy into moving from their secure position on thier side of the bridge. Make sure you have a slightly inferior number of troops and try your best to bait the enemy.

Cavalry Archers can be very useful for this, and Fast moving Yari cavalry can also bait the enemy into pursuit.

Alternatively you could always send across some Ashigaru to bait them and then rout them to encourage pursuit.

[Marshal Murat]

I much prefer is the Warrior monks. They can cut up any unit (besides calvary) Just one can hold, or force across. Also, try and get close to the river with calvary, strike quickly across, and establish a head.

[Brutal DLX]

Bribe them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Amass such a huge force under a good general that the enemy taisho realises it's better to retreat...

Battlefield Ninjas and Kensai work well, but missile fire is the about the only thing that can kill them faster that you would like. I'd never try to attack a bridge map without any missile troops...
Hm..Shoggy...I could give it a try again

[jacko_uk]

All excellent tips, I thank you all.

Regards,
Jacko http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Red Cloud]

Get the enemy to attack you (so they leave the river province).

[Togakure]

There has been a lot of discussion at TOTALWAR.COM about this subject. Here is a link to the thread. Scroll down the thread and you will find quite a few posts about how to attack bride provinces. I have posted a description there about a technique that works for me every time, on Expert level.

TOTALWAR.COM: War College Talkback Thread (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=4322.topic&start=41&stop=60)

[jacko_uk]

Togakure, a wise man indeed. No more a bridge too far

Many thanks,
Jacko http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif