New VI units, invisible corpses - Solution?

[[DnC]]

Now I'm not asking how to fix it, but if it's already known how to fix it (no workarounds, just the actual fix)?

So before I give the answer as to what causes the fact that some units do not show any visible/remaining dead bodies on the battlefield in the original campaign and make a completely useless post that's already known to others, I would like to know the above question.

I've read Welly's unit animation thread, but it doesn't explain the invisible corpses with some of the new units for the original campaign that come with VI.

Neither does the thread started by ME:TW - Team, posted by Duke John if I'm correct. Duke John does give a workaround to the problem. Adding to the top of the list, but this doesn't solve what the actual problem is

I did a search but nothing really relevant seem to come up.

But I could easily have missed the already explained solution seeing as how much information is on this board. At the moment I'm just dead eager to give an answer (seeing as I've fixed something and not being much of a "modder" - yet) and being able to contribute to this community http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The fact that only 256 deadpage coordinates can be implemented is in this case irrelevant due to there only being 161 - correction 156 - deadpage coordinate entries (if I didn't count wrong - won't be that much off the target though).

Edit: I've completely forgot about the Apothecary, so it might fit there aswell. Searching there for the answer as I speak.

[WesW]

You need deadpage coordinate entries for every unit. I think that the number of entries also needs to match those in the units text, except for non-battlefield entries such as ships and spies. I don't know if the entries also need to be of the correct texture type, ala the action page entries.

[[DnC]]

Indeed, for every unit you need deadpage coordinate entries. But the problem why some units didn't show was due to the following that I figured out. Mind you I don't know if someone else already stumbled upon this, at least I couldn't find it.

When working on my own personal mod I suddenly saw something that explained to me what the problem could be. So I went to find out if my suspecions were indeed correct.

Now why do the units like MediumCavalry (Horsemen) and Fyrdmen leave bodies in VI campaign but not in the original campaign?

The answer was rather easy. When comparing the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" with the "CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt" you can see this (all the coordinates left out, just the names):

DEADPAGE COORDS.txt:
ArabInfantry
ArmouredSpearmen
AvarNobles
Berserkers
ByzantineLancers
DarkAgeRoyalKnights
DarkAgeKnights
DismountedFaris
RusSpearmen
VikingKarls
VikingLandsmenn
KhazarRoyalCavalry
SteppeHeavyCavalry
CelticWarriors
SlavWarriors
DruzhinaCavalry
EarlyFootKnights
EarlyRoyalFootKnights
EarlyVarangianGuard
JomsVikings
SaxonHuscarles
SwabianSwordsmen
VikingHuscarles
Faris
Bonnachts
Fyrdmen
IrishDartmen
RoundShieldSpearmen
SlavJavelinmen
SpanishJavelinmen
VikingThralls
Jobbagy
MediumCavalry
PictishCavalry
Szekely
VikingRaiderCavalry
SherwoodForesters
WelshBandits
PictishMountedCrossbows
PictishCrossBows

CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt:
ArabInfantry
ArmouredSpearmen
AvarNobles
Berserkers
ByzantineLancers
CelticWarriors
DismountedFaris
DruzhinaCavalry
EarlyFootKnights
EarlyRoyalFootKnights
Faris
Fyrdmen
Jobbagy
KhazarRoyalCavalry
MediumCavalry
OrganCrew
PictishCavalry
RoundShieldSpearmen
DarkAgeRoyalKnights
DarkAgeKnights
RusSpearmen
SaxonHuscarles
SherwoodForesters
SlavJavelinmen
SlavWarriors
SpanishJavelinmen
SteppeHeavyCavalry
SwabianSwordsmen
Szekely
EarlyVarangianGuard
VikingHuscarles
VikingKarls
VikingLandsmenn
VikingRaiderCavalry
VikingThralls

Note the Bold & Italic names and the Italic names. Those units are all not in the "CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt".

We come to the following.
When you start the game and choose to play a campaign in either Early, High or Late it will load the Unit Prod and Build Prod files that belong to that era.

Then some battle starts and you have some Fyrdmen along side others pitting it against the AI with among others Horsemen (MediumCavalry). A Horsemen unit and a Fyrdmen unit (equal valor) charge eachother and battle it out. Ofcourse the Horsemen are starting to lose, but take some Fyrdmen with them to their graves. And then, what do we see? No corpses. Indeed.

The problem is that the game starts searching in the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" for the coordinates of a particular unit. But for instance when it looks for the Horsemen's coordinates it will suddenly read this (again coordinates are left out):

- It starts checking (figuraly or letteraly, don't know, so just bare with me) to see if these units are in the "CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt" -

ArabInfantry

[WesW]

Thanks for the explanation, since I may have to remove some units from the Medmod units text to make room for others.

[[DnC]]

No problem, but seeing as noone else replies, I think it's already known or people don't care (because VI 2.01 patch fixed it? At least mine didn't, but then again I used the zipped patch from the org and it could be that there are some files missing).

[Puzz3D]

[DnC],

Ok what you found is interesting because barocca's STWmod for MTW/VI has no corpses at all. However, it seems like what you are saying is that CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt is searched regardless of which era is actually in use. The STWmod uses STW_10_UNIT_PROD11.txt, and the viking era uses VIKINGS_UNIT_PROD11.txt. I would therefore assume there is no fix for the STWmod's lack of corpses unless it used the CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt for the new units which would make it unable to cooexist with the unmodded game.

[[DnC]]

Yes you're right.
If you want the bodies to work, then the original game must suffer. And that's not what you guys want, right?

But maybe there's a commandline that lets you choose what file to use for the deadpage coordinates? If there isn't, then that's too bad. Unless if it's hidden and someone discovers what it is. Or else our only hope would be if a CA programmer would enlighten us what the commandline is, if there is one.

[[DnC]]

Hold that thought, I think I might have a solution.
Edit will soon follow.

Edit:

Now the "VIKINGS_UNIT_PROD.txt" itself has 194 units, giving you 62 unit slots. It will really depend on how many units you want to add. Hopefully 62 slots will be sufficient (unless you can add more then 256? Haven't tested this yet - I do know that you cannot have more then 256 deadpage coordinate entries, but don't know about this yet).

Now given that the STW mod uses different buildings, you will not be able to build any MTW/MTW:VI units or build any MTW/MTW:VI buildings because it uses a different build prod file (except for a few non-troop producer buildings - though it might cause a problem and you'll need to rename them in the build prod file and add all the files needed to make those buildings work again, but using a different "codename" - it will not inflict any problems ingame, but I think you already know that).

Now the nice part is, if you add ALL the original game units to the STW prod file, it should make everything work It doesn't block the STW unit deadpage coordinate entries because it can find all the units in that very own unit prod file.

Though the ability to choose the deadpage coordinates file for an era would be ideal

Hopefully I've given this enough thought that I'm correct.

PS. Make sure that the deadpage coordinate entries for the STW units are at the bottom of the list Or else the original and VI campaigns will not work - well they will work, but the "no corpses" problem would arise again.

PPS. I make an awful lot of edits http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Another edit "sigh" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif:

Just to comment on this in particular:


Citaat[/b] ]I would therefore assume there is no fix for the STWmod's lack of corpses unless it used the CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt for the new units which would make it unable to cooexist with the unmodded game.

There is even another way, BUT it will be even more work then the above solution. It will have to do with even more adding of new building files under a different name for the VI campaign and renaming the buildings in the build prod file (or original campaign, wouldn't really matter) to prevent some problems (seeing the ability to build some VI units with a particular building - for instance the Armoury building that some units require - yet unable to build them (which shouldn't be, unless you want it to) or visa versa).

Edit: As mentioned in the second post of myself below this;

There are 194 unit slots in the "VIKINGS_UNIT_PROD.txt", but you will only need to add the units that use deadpage coordinates. The others won't cause a problem because there are no deadpage coordinate entries and thus they will not block the data entries in the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" of any other units - e.g. there isn't a deadpage coordinate entry for a ship. If you don't understand this, read my second post again with why some corpses do not show any bodies.

[WesW]

I got a little confused there, but couldn't you just delete the entries from the deadpage that aren't going to be in your units text?

I just checked the medmod units text, and there are 255 entries in it. I also checked the deadpage, and it had no entries for the 32 units text entries that only had one line, namely the horses, ships and special units that don't appear on the battlefield.
All of this means that you can have 256 battlefield units.

[[DnC]]

What I understand from Puzz3D is that STW must co-exist with the original game (at least they want it that way, if I'm correct?), but if you want that, you'll need to add all the original units (including the ones from VI) to the STW unit prod file.

The "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" will look like the following:

- MTW units
- VI units (with the corrections mentioned in my second post)
- STW units

In that order.

Now when starting the original campaigns (Early, High and Late) which all load the "CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt", the game will see all the deadpage coordinate entries for those (remember that the game searches in a pathological order, from top to bottom).

It searches (it is searching in the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" and checking it with the unit prod file, just to mention it - Bold is unit prod file, Italic is deadpage coords):
- MTW units

[Norseman]

Quote[/b] ]
All of this means that you can have 256 battlefield units.


So there can be 256 battlefield units in the crusader_unit_prod11.txt file, and removing or adding agents/ships/mounts will not affect that limit.

Do I understand you correctly?

[[DnC]]

Yes I think he means that. Though is it possible to have more then 256 unit slots in the unit prod file?

Anyways I totally forgot about something.
Theoritically (99% positive) you only need to add the units that have deadpage coordinate entries, all others aren't neccesary (sp?). So, all the ships, agents/special units and horses do not have to be added, because they aren't in the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt" and will not be searched for, thus not causing a problem.

So this will give you some more unit slots to work with.

Edit: If you haven't seen it, I've edited my previous post to make it a bit more understandable.

[WesW]

Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Dec. 11 2003,13:57)]
Quote[/b] ]
All of this means that you can have 256 battlefield units.


So there can be 256 battlefield units in the crusader_unit_prod11.txt file, and removing or adding agents/ships/mounts will not affect that limit.

Do I understand you correctly?
Well, it's true that I forgot to check to see if the units text can have more than 256. You can simply copy and paste in existing unit texts entries to see how many that file can hold.

[Socratatus]

Hi, guys. I`m new here, but not to STW or MTW. This thing about vanishing dead bodies. There`s a patch? Can someone provide a link to it please? Thnx.

[[DnC]]

There isn't a patch for it as far as I know, but I can help you.

This takes about two/five minutes to do.

Do the following:

- Go to Medieval - Total War > Textures > Men.
- Scroll down towards the bottom untill you find DEADPAGE COORDS (the .txt file) and open it.
- Scroll down (quite a bit down&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif untill you see this:

(Other units above - as you can see when looking at the "DEADPAGE COORDS.txt")
EarlyVarangianGuard
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
JomsVikings
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
SaxonHuscarles
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
(other units below)

- Cut and paste the part in Bold to the bottom of the list (below the last unit of the list), like this:

(Other units above)
PictishCrossBows
26 13 226 311 277 334
20 16 65 259 101 284
24 15 289 232 334 257
21 13 179 132 229 151
JomsVikings
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
(End of the list)

- Make sure that this part looks like the following:

(Other units above)
EarlyVarangianGuard
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
SaxonHuscarles
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
(other units below)

This way I know for sure it will work, if there are any enters between the deadpage coordinate entries it might cause problems, but I don't know this for sure, because I have never tested it.

- Do the same with:

Bonnachts
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230

and

IrishDartmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230

If you're a bit lost on how to do it, I'll explain how to do it exactly with these aswell:

- Look for this:

(Other units above)
Faris
44 23 94 149 142 174
32 29 1 34 49 61
17 27 25 175 2 231
4 26 1 5 50 32
Bonnachts
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
Fyrdmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(Other units below)

- Cut and paste again the Bold part and paste it below the last unit of the list, like this:

(Other units above)
PictishCrossBows
26 13 226 311 277 334
20 16 65 259 101 284
24 15 289 232 334 257
21 13 179 132 229 151
JomsVikings
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
Bonnachts
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(End of the list)

- Again make sure the following looks like this:

(Other units above)
Faris
44 23 94 149 142 174
32 29 1 34 49 61
17 27 25 175 2 231
4 26 1 5 50 32
Fyrdmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(Other units below)

- As last, look for this:

(Other units above)
Fyrdmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
IrishDartmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
RoundShieldSpearmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(Other units below)

- Cut and paste the Bold part to the bottom of the list like the previous two, like this:

(Other units above)
PictishCrossBows
26 13 226 311 277 334
20 16 65 259 101 284
24 15 289 232 334 257
21 13 179 132 229 151
JomsVikings
27 13 233 84 283 106
21 16 40 233 78 257
25 15 235 286 282 309
20 14 284 24 334 44
Bonnachts
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
IrishDartmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(End of the list)

- And again make sure the following looks like this:

(Other units above)
Fyrdmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
RoundShieldSpearmen
26 13 286 179 334 203
20 16 118 232 154 257
24 15 125 206 170 230
20 13 74 206 123 230
(Other units below)

[Socratatus]

Thankyou. An impressive response. I`ll do as you instruct. Thanx again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[[DnC]]

I hope you'll get it to work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[WesW]

Btw, I tested it out, and there is a 256-entry limit for the units text as well. There are 32 non-battlefield, one-line entries for the VI file, if you ever need to calculate your total.

[[DnC]]

Thanks for the information Wes
I figured that was the limit.

[Norseman]

Quote[/b] ]
Btw, I tested it out, and there is a 256-entry limit for the units text as well. There are 32 non-battlefield, one-line entries for the VI file, if you ever need to calculate your total.


Thanks WesW. I'm about to hit the roof now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Was planning to have 100 more, but I guess I'll have to find some way to cut down.

[Fearless]

Well thank you Dnc for the most interesting piece of information I have read for along time. At last an answer to the missing corpses. Maybe the modders can now add the final touches to their great mods http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

Moved to the Repository to clear the many pinned topics, this is a solved situation and the info will still be available but n need to keep it pinned, we need the room...LOS