English Civil War mod

[thrashaholic]

I just came up with this idea right now( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif ) . How about an English Civil war mod, not wars of the roses, but the Royalists and Parliamentarians of the Stuart era... I haven't though this through much so I can't give details (they'll come later), but I think this would be a great idea for a mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Of course I'd like some help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif , anyone?

Thrashaholic

[Marshal Murat]

Loyalist:Bunch of Lords and such support the King
Parilamentrist(something like that):Support the Parilments jurisdiction over the King

Bunch of battles won by the Parilament, but in the end, Charles son was restored to the throne.

There is also a New Model army, Cromwell need to include that. Bunch of guns and swords mostly.

[thrashaholic]

OK, I'm looking at making it start at 1642 and letting it run on from there. The factions will of course be the Roundheads and the Cavileers, and maybe an Irish faction (they were being attacked by the English at the time) and perhaps a rebel Scottish army (after the Bishops Wars).
I've got some details on the armies involved (doing research as we speak) there was the New Model Army, and the army still loyal to the crown. Royalist support was predominant in the North, West, and Wales, whereas the Parliamentarians supporters were from the richer South (including London).

Help on the modding side of things would be very useful (I'm a relative newbie on that side of things),

Thrashaholic

[thrashaholic]

Just had a thought, how about the having the Dutch (the House of Orange) and possibly French as factions as well, they both supported the Royals. (I'm gonna need a new map for this, doh)

Thrashaholic

[thrashaholic]

OK, I've done some more research, on units this time:

Infantry:

Pikemen,
Match lock muskets (less expensive, slower firing, less reliable in rain)
Flint lock muskets (opposite of match lock info)

Cavalry:

Dragoons
Pistoleers (cavalry with pistols)
"Lobsters" (heavy cavalry in full body plate armour, very expensive)
Light cavalry

Artillery:

artillery pieces of varying size and strength.

Hopefully this'll tickle all of your fancies a bit more, anyone interested?

Thrashaholic

[Marshal Murat]

Hey Thrash, why not use the Viking Invasion map.
Just rename a few places. Also, your going to need to get a good modder to change the French area.

Also, you should ask around to maybe get a few models for your game.
The Lordz are busy, but maybe ask Duke John, or a model person from the HTW. Or you could try it yourself.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Flamininus]

The Civil war wasn't just restricted to England it was fought in Scotland as well. You could include the Roylists led by the Earl of Montrose, Highland clans etc and the Covenanters for parliament, the Covenanters later came south into England to aide the English parliament forces. You can also use Fraser's Dragoons and the Scots also used some lancers

Mercenary units from the continent etc. Cuirassiers (heavy cavalry) were used during the early years by both sides before the advent of the New Model Army.

Hope this gives you some more ideas.

[thrashaholic]

Thanks for the info. You seem to know your stuff Flaminus, maybe you'd like to help? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Thrashaholic

[Thoros of Myr]

Nice idea thrashaholic...to an american like myself this mod is intriguing as this bit of history isint widely known over here.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[thrashaholic]

Thoros, I'm glad you've taken an interest in my idea.

Here's a good site about it if you want...http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~crossby/ECW/

It gives some really good information about the civil war, this has been my main source so far.

Thrashaholic

[*Ringo*]

Quote[/b] (Thoros of Myr @ Feb. 07 2004,20:00)]...to an American like myself this mod is intriguing as this bit of history isn't widely known over here.
It's surprising that this historical event isn't widely known about; as I believe this was the first time power had been taken from a, so called, infallible Royal line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Giving birth to the early signs of democracy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif I maybe totally wrong about that but that's the impression i got from the sources i've read.

In terms of an actual mod, this sound very interesting and in fact was something i was thinking about doing myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif So i will be happy to give any help i can. I'm not too experienced in the modding department but learn very fast. I'm comfortable editing .txt files and have just started one or two new units of my own http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Time is going to be the only factor that restricts me. Unfortunately i have a very busy life, with work, family etc... But i will be able to help out a bit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

Keep exploring the idea and see where it takes you....

... and good luck. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

All the best

*Ringo*

[thrashaholic]

OK I've come up with a faction list, all would be playable, tell me what you think:

The Parliamentarians

The "roundheads" with their NEW MODEL ARMY, they'd control most of the south (the richest lands) and parts of scotland.

The Royalists

The "cavaliers" raising their armies from the supporting Lords and land-owners, they'd control the north, wales, cornwall and ulster.

Scotish Rebels

Raised from the clans opposed to the English after their attempt to impose Anglicanism on the Scottish. They'd control lands not loyal to parliament or the royals. (I'm not to sure on my scottish history, maybe someone could fill me in on some details?)

Irish Rebels

Raised from the Irish or southern Ireland who were opposed to English rule. They'd controll all the provinces in Ireland except Ulster who were mainly English and so still loyal to the crown.

Thrashaholic

[Auxilia]

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ Feb. 08 2004,08:22)]OK I've come up with a faction list, all would be playable, tell me what you think:
This sounds like a great mod

Just a few suggestions, thrashaholic - you say you need some gaps filled in re history and so on so here goes:-

Parliament

Spot on with the geographical aspect. Two of the many factors in their victory was their control of London - which they never lost - and significantly the fact that most of the navy sided with them, making it tricky for the Royalists to gather help from Queen Henrietta's French relatives. The New Model Army did not appear until 1644 (or thereabouts) but evenbefore this time the Parliamentarian army was not that bad (I can do a unit list for you if you like, together with some personalities you might consider for the mod).


Royalist

Again you're dead right on where their sphere of influence lay. They could very intermittently call on support from Ireland, Scotland and the continent but mostly they were on their own - this was in every sense a Civil War. Their armies remained unchanged for much of the conflict - in terms of equipment and good commanders, they probably just about had the edge early on, but losing it later.

Scotland

This is were things get complicated One of the myriad causes of the war was the attempt by Charles to impose religious practices offensive to the fiercely Protestant Scots (those opposed to these reforms became known as the Covenanters). A series of skirmishes known as the Bishop's Wars led to a hugely embarrassing climb down for the crown - the Covenanters didn't forget this affrontery and allied with Parliament half-way through the war. But Charles after his own defeat convinced them to swap sides. Just to complicate things further there was always a significant Royalist faction in Scotland, led for the most part by the Earl of Montrose who inflicted, with limited resources, a series of embarrasing defeats on forces allied to Parliament. You might consider making this a playable faction and let the player do his own thing. Oh yes - the Covenanters had there powerbases to the South mainly around the bigger towns and cities with the Royalists drawn from the Highlands (and from Ireland).

Ireland

I could bore you for hours with this one as well



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif


Here are the main points 1)Big rebellion in the 1640s - Parliament wouldn't vote Charles money for an army.

2)Mainly sided with Charles as he was sympathetic to Catholicism for which 3) Cromwell took a terrible revenge on the Irish in the late 1640's after the Royalist defeat.

My Irish history is a little sketchy - sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif

Hope this helps - as I've said, I'd be delighted to do a unit/personality list for you.

[thrashaholic]

Auxila, that would be brilliant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif , I thought those factions would roughly depict the general scene at the beginning, so really I just needed to know the starting lands at the beginning of the war.

Oh, btw, I've been doing a little research into faction flags and got some good ones for the royalists and parliamentarians.

I haven't been able to do much work on the mod yet though, so if anyone who wants to be involved drop me a mail at verbal_razors@hotmail.com and I'll start getting this organised. (So far I think Marshal Murat, Flaminus, Ringo, and Auxila have shown interest in this, if you could mail me as well that would be useful) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Thrashaholic

[Oberstein]

How can you make Pike & Musket tactics work well within the Medieval engine? I mean troops are presumably used to gunfire by this point, so you might want to use the Arbalester flag as opposed to a 'gunpowder' unit.

[thrashaholic]

A little update: I'm now redoing the strategy map so it has the names of the counties on it replacing the viking province names. At the moment I'm not going to go as far as altering the lukupmaps, I think the VI map should suffice. I thought the map would be a good place to start.

Thrashaholic

[Marshal Murat]

Gunpowder and Pike, thats tough.
I would say that i would most likely mix the Pikemen with arb troops. Have the Arbquebs stand in front of the pikemen, and then when cavalry charge home, pull forward your pikemen.

[thrashaholic]

Apparently the tactics of the time were to have a block of pikemen sandwiched between two blocks of muskets, and then if they were attacked the pikes would pull forward and create a shield for the muskets, basically what Marsal Murat said, and if attacked by cavalry the pikes would create a square around their muskets, which I know cannot be done with the MTW engine, but......use your imagination http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif I'm sure there are lots of tactics that could be implemented that the MTW can do.

Btw I've finished my alterations on the maptex maps, yet to test them in game though.

Thrashaholic

[Flamininus]

A few small points of interest, the Royalist had the edge in cavalry untill the new model army and Cromwells "Ironsides" came on the scene. New Model Army musketeers were capabale of volley fire a rarity up untill then.

Prince Rupert was the Kings nephew and German, I believe he brought his own regiment of cavalry over with him.

A lot of people finaly turned agains Charles when they learnt he was considering asking the French for troops, not very popular at the time

And by the way, it was not uncommon for people to change sides several times during this period.

[Flamininus]

I came across some army details in a wargames book of mine for the period.

Royalists
Heavy class cavalry
Pikemen
Musketeers
Dragoons
Train Guard
Levies - improvised weapons
Heavy,Medium and Light guns
Galloper Gun (Mounted crew)

New Model Army (Disiplined troops)
Heavy class cavalry
Pikemen
Musketeers
Dragoons
Heavy and light guns

Scots Royalist Army - Marquis of Montrose
Gordon Horse - Medium cavalry, pistols sword
Gordon Foot - Musket and sword
Irish - Musket, 2 handed sword or swordsmen with shield (fanatical, fire salvos?)
Highlanders - Musket, sword and shield or 2 handed sword (Fanatical?) Some low morale some high morale
Kilponts Archers - Longbow
Light gun

Scots Covenanter
Medium cavalry - lance,pistol,sword or pistol and sword
Dragoons- (Frasers dragoons capable of fighting mounted)
Pikemen
Musketeers
Highlanders- Sword and shield, 2 handed sword, Musket (low morale)
Heavy, medium and light guns

Charles had troops in Ireland, if he could make peace with the Irish catholic rebels he had hoped to recall them and possibly form an alliance with the Irish. He also had the possibility of counting on support from Holland, Denmark and Portugal.

Parliament controlled the navy and most of the ports

[thrashaholic]

Thanks for the info Flaminus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

I'm pleased to say that the new Maptex files work in game, so now work can begin on planning the factions, Auxilia has been helping me with this, and your information will be useful Flaminus.

Thrashaholic

[Flamininus]

I look forward to this mod coming out.

[thrashaholic]

I have a half-term week next week, so hopefully I can get down to some serious modding (as long as I don't have too much coursework http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif ), I'll try and get as much done as possible.

Thrashaholic

PS Maybe it would be cool if an HRE style of succession (not that there'll be much succession in the game) could be implemented for the parliamentarians, I don't know how to do this though..... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I'll look around the files

[thrashaholic]

OK we have a definite faction list http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

They will be five factions:

The Parliamentarians

Control the rich south (except for oxforfordshire) where the ports and merchants etc. are. Better developed.

The Royalists

Control the North, Wales, Oxfordshire, Cornwall and Ulster

The Scottish Royalists(this name will probably be changed)

Control the Scottish highlands.

The Scottish Covanenters

Control the Scottish lowlands.

The Irish

Control Southern Ireland.

Hope this meets everyones approval http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

I'm now trying to work on a tech tree, all suggestions are more than welcome....

Thrashaholic

[TheSilverKnight]

Sounds good mate. Looking forward to this coming out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Hi thrashaholic

It is entirely possible to use the HRE in your MOD. I just took 10 minutes to try this out and it is indeed possible to add the HRE to the Viking Invasion campaign and this means you can use them for your Parliamentarians in your MOD. If you would like me to help you add them in for you feel free to e-mail me at samandshirley@splaxton.fsnet.co.uk

[Lord Flasheart]

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ Feb. 12 2004,13:41)]The Scottish Royalists(this name will probably be changed)
Why would you need to change it? That is, historically, one of the names used for the 'faction.'

If you did change it the only real option would be the shorter Scots Royalists.


Anyway, since nobody else has spotted this golden opportunity I'm going to humbly request that you make all the highlanders in the mod Farquharsons http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

[thrashaholic]

Lord Flasheart, give me a description and I'll do my best... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Thrashaholic

[Flamininus]

Be careful you don't want to upset the MacDonalds, Robertsons etc http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[thrashaholic]

Oh I see http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif , they're a clan......... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif ? Sorry, I didn't get it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif as I said I'm not that good with my scottish history, or scotland in general....

Thrashaholic

[gaelic cowboy]

here is some info you might like on Ireland in 1649 just copy pasted from some site.

Oliver Cromwell's Irish campaign is remembered for its brilliance ... but especially for its bloody-handed ruthlessness.

The Irish rebellion Oliver Cromwell suppressed in 1649 was the later stage of an uprising that had been going on since 1641. On October 23, 1641, 40 years after the great rebellion of Hugh O'Neill, earl of Tyrone, the Irish rose in revolt, first in Ulster, then later in the rest of Ireland. About 3,000 English and Scottish settlers were killed in the initial uprising. The numbers were inflated by Parliament to hundreds of thousands as a propaganda ploy to prevent King Charles I from making peace and using the Irish against Parliament during the Civil War.

The English forces initially were commanded by James Butler, Duke of Ormonde and lord lieutenant of Ireland. In 1645, however, with Parliament in control of England, the Duke of Ormonde took control of the rebellion and led the Confederacy, an alliance of all Royalists in Ireland. Others, such as Murrough O'Brien, Baron of Inchiquin, an Irish Protestant stationed in Munster opposed the Confederacy and laid waste to Munster, earning him the name Murrough of the Burnings and the hatred of his Irish countrymen. Owen Roe O'Neill, nephew of Tyrone and a "Wild Geese" veteran of the Spanish army, kept his Ulster forces separate from the Duke of Ormonde's, representing a purely Irish Catholic element.

The years 1647 to 1649 were pivotal for the rebellion. First, in 1647 the baron of Inchiquin switched sides for no apparent reason and joined the Duke of Ormonde. Second, Colonel Michael Jones landed with 2,000 troops, expelled the Duke of Ormonde from Dublin and defeated him at Rathmines in August 1649. That broke the Duke of Ormonde's power. All that was left to do was capture the strongholds still in Confederate or Irish hands. Oliver Cromwell set out for Ireland to do just that.

Cromwell faced a bitterly divided Ireland. Native Irish (Catholic), the "Old English" (the descendants of the original Catholic English colonists), New English (Protestant) and Scottish (Protestant), the more recent settlers, all distrusted one another almost as much as they did Cromwell, sometimes more so.

Cromwell's greatest obstacles were not Irish or Confederate troops but the nature of Ireland itself, where conditions were terrible and the climate is even wetter than in England. Plague and influenza proved more devastating to Cromwell's men than Irish arms.

Cromwell set sail for Ireland on August 13, 1649. He arrived in Dublin on the 15th and was greeted by the roar of cannons from the walls and a great, enthusiastic crowd. Cromwell was received so favorably because Dublin was the second city of the English empire and Colonel Jones had expelled all Catholics from the city.

The Duke of Ormonde left Sir Arthur Aston, an English Catholic, at Drogheda with 2,200 infantry and 20 cavalry to delay Cromwell from marauding farther north. Aston was well aware of Cromwell's superior numbers--8,000 infantry and 4,000 cavalry--but he was confident that Drogheda's superior position would enable him to survive the Cromwellian onslaught even if he could not hope to take the Lord Lieutenant in the field--or, as he put it, "He who could take Drogheda could take Hell." He also expected war's partners, disease and famine, to weaken the (Protestant) Parliamentary army.

The geography of Drogheda was crucial to the siege. The town was totally contained within a formidable wall one and a half miles long, 20 feet high, and 6 feet wide at the base, narrowing to 2 feet on top. The main town lay north of the River Boyne. To the south, still within the impressive fortifications, was an additional urban area situated on a hill that had to be tackled first by any army coming from the south. In the extreme southeast corner, virtually embedded in the city wall, stood St. Mary's Church. From its lofty steeple the defenders not only had a fine view of the city but were in a good position to fire upon their Protestant attackers.

Flanking the church on the town side was a steep ravine called the Dale, then the heavily guarded Duleek Gate, the entrance to this southern outpost, and behind that an imposing artificial mound called the Mill Mount.

On September 10, Cromwell issued his first official summons to Sir Arthur Aston:

"Having brought the army belonging to the Parliament of England before this place, to reduce it to obedience, to the end the effusion of blood may be prevented, I thought it fit to summon you to deliver the same into my hands to their use. If this be refused you will have no cause to blame me."

Aston refused to surrender, and Cromwell's cannons opened fire. The walls of the city began to crumble. Aston quickly realized that he was in danger. The (Protestant) Parliamentary fleet blockaded the harbor. The Duke of Ormonde could send no more reinforcements, his arms and provisions were running short. Worst of all, like all of Ireland, Drogheda was not united. Some of those inside the walls preferred the English Parliamentary force.

Knowing that there could be "no quarter" (no mercy) if he refused to surrender, Aston decided to fight on, writing to the Duke of Ormonde that his soldiers, at least, "were unanimous in their resolution to perish rather than to deliver up the place."

The (Catholic) defenders fought bravely, at first turning back the attackers, but eventually the Parliamentarians crashed through the walls and seized St. Mary's Church. Aston and some defenders fled to Mill Mount. Possessed by bloodlust, the Parliamentarians rushed up the hill, and all defenders, including Aston, were killed by order of Cromwell. The Parliamentarians swept through the streets with orders to kill anyone in arms. Against orders, civilians also were killed in the rush. Priests and friars were treated as combatants by Cromwell's Puritans and executed. Even more horrible was the fate of the defenders of St. Peter's Church in the northern part of the town; the church was burned down around them. By nightfall, only small pockets of resistance on the walls remained. When they managed to kill some (Protestant) Parliamentarians, Cromwell ordered the captured (Catholic) officers to be "knocked on the head" and every 10th soldier (Catholic) executed. Nearly 4,000 (Catholic) Confederates died at Drogheda.

Drogheda's being divided by the river caused some confusion and may have led to the massacre. When forces on one side of the river surrendered, it is alleged that Cromwell, still meeting resistance on the other side, ordered the annihilation of the entire population. "I do not think that thirty of the whole number escaped with their lives," Cromwell later wrote. The survivors were sold as slaves to the sugar plantations at Barbados

After the massacre, Cromwell sought to explain his actions in a letter to William Lenthall, speaker of the English Parliament:

"...I am persuaded that this is a righteous judgement of God upon these barbarous wretches, who have imbued their hands in so much innocent blood, and it will tend to prevent the effusion of blood for the future, which are satisfactory grounds to such actions, which otherwise cannot but work remourse and regret...."

Arthur Wellesley (an Irisman), the famous Duke of Wellington, later said in Cromwell's defense: "The practice of refusing quarter to a garrison which stands an assault is not a useless effusion of blood."

The Duke of Ormonde tried to make excuses for not aiding Drogheda. He said that many of his officers and troops were on the verge of mutiny or were showing a lack of courage, so it was not wise to get close to the enemy. Ormonde later wrote to King Charles II: "It is not to be imagined the terror these successes and the power of the rebels have struck into the people. They are so stupefied, that it is with great difficulty I can persuade them to act anything like men toward their own."

When Owen Roe O'Neill heard of the massacre, he swore an oath that he would retake the town even if he had to storm Hell.

Cromwell set out for the south a fortnight after Drogheda. Winter was fast approaching and no time could be lost if the southern part of the island was to be subdued. He had to follow up before the scattered Irish forces recovered from the initial panic and joined in a stronger union.

Cromwell and his army encamped at the walls of Wexford on October 1, 1649. It was most important to capture that town, for it was through Wexford that the (Catholic) Confederates received their arms and kept in touch with supporters in foreign countries. He hoped the capture would be easy.

Ormonde also realized the importance of the place and sent 1,000 infantry and 300 cavalry to reinforce the garrison. The townspeople, however, did not trust the Duke of Ormonde. They remembered that he had surrendered Dublin a few years earlier; they knew he had recently made common cause with the (Protestant) Baron of Inchiquin; they remembered how he had massacred his own people earlier in the revolt. Their distrust was so strong that they initially refused entry to Ormonde's forces and did so only after the Parliamentary fleet arrived.

Cromwell himself admitted that Wexford was "pleasantly seated and strong." It had a rampart of earth 15 feet thick within the walls to improve its chances of withstanding a siege. It was garrisoned by more than 2,000 men. In the fort and elsewhere were nearly 100 cannons. In the harbor were three ships, one with 34 guns and two with 20. Since it was the middle of October, winter would soon be setting in, and sickness would soon take its toll on troops camped in the open. The Duke of Ormonde was camped 20 miles away at Ross, waiting for a favorable moment to strike.

The (Catholic) Confederates faced a disadvantage that negated the town's impressive fortifications, however: there was a traitor in their midst, Captain James Stafford. Had Stafford's treason not occurred, Wexford would no doubt have been a tougher nut to crack. On October 11, Stafford gave Cromwell entrance to the town. The scenes that followed mirrored those at Drogheda. Many Franciscans and other priests were killed. Three hundred women were massacred while standing at the cross in the public square. They had hoped that being near the cross would soften the hearts of the Christian soldiers. Instead it identified them as Catholics, and they were put to death. The churches were then destroyed. The total number of dead at Wexford was about 2,000.

After Wexford, the English Parliament sent Cromwell reinforcements and an enormous sum of money to buy off his (Catholic) English enemies in Ireland. Cromwell then marched on Ross. Two days after the summons, the town surrendered without a fight, although the Duke of Ormonde had sent 2,500 extra men into the town. The townspeople no doubt were frightened by the events at Drogheda and Wexford. Unable to prevent them from crossing the Barrow River, Cromwell granted terms: the inhabitants were protected from looting and violence, and the garrison was allowed to march away under arms. He turned down a request for freedom of worship, however.

About 500 men from the Ross garrison, mostly the (Protestant) Baron of Inchiquin's men, defected to Cromwell. The reinforcements were welcome, because the expedition was beginning to take its toll on him and his men. At Ross, Cromwell himself suffered from a mild form of malaria. The defection of the troops was a blow to the Duke of Ormonde. The ranks of the (Catholic) Confederacy were discouraged and disaffected. Ormonde wrote to King Charles II that only his presence could hearten his discouraged subjects.

In early November, the Irish cause suffered an even worse blow. The Earl O'Neill died of a mysterious illness. Some say the only Irish commander who could have taken on Cromwell head to head had been poisoned. Before he died, O'Neill signed a treaty with the Duke of Ormonde and sent some of his troops south, but after this severe setback Ormonde had to rely on withdrawal and evasion tactics.

After Ross, Cromwell built a bridge across the Barrow, advanced into Tipperary and captured the Duke of Ormonde's castle. He then joined his son-in-law, General Henry Ireton, at Duncannon. After some deliberation, most of the army was withdrawn from Ross and placed at a less fortified post to form a blockade around Duncannon to prevent supplies coming in from Waterford. That proved unnecessary, because Waterford refused to part with any of its own scanty provisions.

The commander of the fort, Thomas Roche, informed the Duke of Ormonde that there was no way he could hold the fort against Cromwell and that he would have to obey the summons. Ormonde promptly sent Colonel Edward Wogan, a defector from Ireton's ranks, along with 120 cavalry, to replace Roche. They arrived just in time to save the fort. They sent a defiant answer to Cromwell, and he abandoned the siege rather than pursue it in the winter.

Although Duncannon had a reprieve, the (Catholic) Confederates lost a more important place; the garrison at Cork revolted in favor of the Parliamentarians about the same time Cromwell was at Ross. The seeds of the revolt were sown before Cromwell's coming as Protestants sought to break the dominance of Catholics, especially the Confederates.

Cromwell sent agents to widen the differences. One of them was Roger Boyle, Lord Broghill, a former royalist who joined Cromwell out of financial need. (A low man who betrayed is King.) Another Cromwell agent was Colonel Richard Townsend, who pretended to be angered at the execution of the king but who was trying to corrupt the Munster forces. Their activities quickly bore fruit. The Munster Protestants had nothing to hope for and everything to fear from the (Catholic) Confederates. Cromwell remarked that "if there had been a man like Boyle in every province, it would have been impossible for the Irish to raise a rebellion."

The result was that Broghill raised 1,500 infantry and a troop of cavalry from his family estates. Townsend led the (Protestant) English troops and citizens of Cork in driving out the (Catholic) Irish and declared the city for the English Parliament. The rising saved Townsend from being executed for hatching a plot to capture the baron of Inchiquin.

The revolt was a greater disaster for the Duke of Ormonde than the mere loss of Cork. The Irish complained that Ormonde showed favoritism to the English, and he was thus compelled to restore Roche at Duncannon. The rest of Inchiquin's English troops deserted, making the campaign a tribal war between Celts and English. Inchiquin was even accused of being a traitor. The accusation was false, but the damage was done, and he lost much of his already scant credibility.

With the capture of Drogheda and Wexford, the major strongholds on the east coast, and the possession of Cork, the first stage of Cromwell's Irish campaign was over. His task was clear: reduce the garrisons that still held out in Munster and bring that province under the rule of the English Parliament. The rising in Cork made that task simpler by widening the gap between the Irish (Catholics) and the Old English (also Catholics). Cromwell spent as much time on diplomatic maneuvering as he did on field operations.

As matters stood in mid-November 1649, the forces of the English Parliament held the east coast from Belfast down to Wexford, plus Cork in the west. Only a few towns in the north remained in Irish hands. Cromwell was still ill, so he sent Jones and Ireton to the county of Kilkenny to secure the garrisons there, cut the Duke of Ormonde off from Waterford and draw him into an open engagement.

The plan was not successful. The (Catholic) Confederates first retired to Thomastown, then to the fortified city of Kilkenny. Ireton sent Colonel Daniel Abbott to take the town, but Abbott found that the River Nore was flooded and the bridge at Thomastown was destroyed. Ireton and Jones had to be content with sending Colonel John Reynolds to take Carriek and returning to Ross with the main army. Weather had joined disease and famine in the fight against Cromwell.

Carrick soon fell, and Cromwell, now recovered from his illness, led his army across the River Suir to Waterford

The Duke of Ormonde lay with 10,000 men on the Kilkenny side of the River Suir opposite Waterford and the (Protestant) Parliamentarians. He sent the Baron of Inchiquin to try to recapture Carrick, but he failed. Cromwell had 7,000 at the beginning of the siege, but wet weather and plague reduced the number to 3,000. At that point, Ormonde could have stopped him. Again, Ormonde's army did not come into play, because of the same disunity that plagued the Irish at Drogheda and Wexford. His army was seen by most Irish as an alien force, just as offensive as Cromwell's. Cromwell sought to exploit this feeling in his summons to Waterford on November 21, 1649. His warning was similar to those given to Drogheda and Wexford, but the result was different. Hunger and disease had taken such a toll on Cromwell's force that eventually he was compelled to retreat.

Cromwell came out of winter quarters at the end of January 1650 and began the conquest of southern Ireland. He offered terms of surrender at the city of Fethard on February 2. Officers, soldiers and priests would be allowed to march away, and the townspeople would be protected from looting. The town of Cashel surrendered without a fight, and Cromwell turned his army on Callan, a city defended by a strong wall and three castles. He attacked with cannons, took two of the castles, put their defenders to the sword and accepted the surrender of the third.

Next Cromwell turned to Cahir, commanded by the Duke of Ormonde's half-brother, Captain George Mathews. When Mathews refused the first demand to surrender, the Parliamentarians tried to scale the walls. A force of Catholic Ulstermen repulsed the attack, but Cromwell brought up his cannons. Mathews realized he could not hold out and surrendered under terms Cromwell agreed to--that the officers, soldiers and clergymen be allowed to march out.

Cromwell pushed on, taking the towns of Kiltenan, Dundrum, Ballynakill and Kildare. He and other Parliamentarians next converged on Kilkenny, headquarters of the Confederacy. He summoned Kilkenny on March 22, 1650:

"My coming hither is to endeavour, if God so please to bless me, the reduction of the city of Kilkenny to their obedience to the state of England, from which, by an unheard of massacre of the innocent English, you have endeavored to rend yourselves."

Sir Walter Butler, governor of Kilkenny and a cousin of the Duke of Ormonde, responded that he would maintain the town for the King. The city was not in good shape, however. Hundreds of the garrison died of plague, and reinforcements had deserted. Nearby Cantwell Castle surrendered to Cromwell. Ormonde and the Supreme Council had long since fled.

Nevertheless, Cromwell found it not so easy to take the town. The city was divided by the River Nore into two parts, Kilkenny proper and Irishtown. A plot to betray the city was discovered, and a Captain Tickell was executed. Butler refused to surrender, and an attack beginning on the 24th at Irishtown was first repulsed, but ultimately succeeded. Butler again refused to surrender, and the Parliamentary attack continued on the 25th. Hours of bombardment caused a breach in the wall of the town proper. Two attacks by the (Protestant) Parliamentarians were repulsed, and a third order to attack was not obeyed, but Butler soon decided that he'd done all he could do and surrendered.

Upon payment of 2,000 pounds sterling, the citizens of Kilkenny were protected from looting, and the officers and soldiers were allowed to march out disarmed for two miles. The clergymen also were allowed to march out.

For some weeks after Kilkenny, Cromwell did not take an active role in operations; instead he directed them, first from Carrick, then from Fethard. He realized that Ormonde was at the end of his resources. On the east coast, only Waterford was not in English hands, and on the west coast the plague-devastated city of Galway. Limerick refused to admit any forces not dominated by the Catholic clergy. Furthermore, the Catholic bishop of Derry was making arrangements with foreign princes to transport several thousand fighting men out of Ireland.

On the combat side, the baron of Inchiquin tried to invade Limerick, but was routed by Broghill. Broghill then joined Cromwell at Clonmel after beating back an invasion of County Cork by David Roche.

By the end of March 1650, there was little to do except to take Clonmel, Waterford and Limerick and reduce the scattered Irish remnants, since the last major Confederate commander besides Ormonde, Inchiquin, was negotiating with Cromwell.

Cromwell's next objective, Clonmel, was commanded by General Hugh Duffy O'Neill, "Black Hugh," who, like his uncle, Owen Roe O'Neill, had previously served with the "Wild Geese" in the Spanish army. At his command were 12,000 troops, mostly (Catholic) Ulstermen and all but 50 of whom were infantry. Ormonde promised to send aid but did not. It was in Black Hugh that Cromwell met his greatest adversary in Ireland.

Cromwell arrived at Clonmel on April 27, a month after Kilkenny. There is no evidence that he summoned the city to surrender. Supplies were running low when he arrived and, as in other places, there was treason to aid Cromwell's effort. A Major Fennell accepted 500 pounds sterling from Cromwell and opened the gates to 500 Parliamentarians. But Black Hugh had some of his uncle's savvy. He discovered the plot and arrested Fennell, who confessed on promise of a pardon. The 500 English Parliamentarians were slaughtered by the Ulstermen.

This was not the beginning Cromwell desired. On April 30, he brought up the guns and began the bombardment. On May 9, the English Parliamentarians poured through a breach--and right into a trap. O'Neill had made breastworks, with a masked battery, 80 yards from the breach. The Irish fired chain shot from their cannons, and the troops maintained a continuous fire from the breastworks. Stone and timber also were hurled at the attackers. More Parliamentarians came in, only to be killed. Finally, the Parliamentarians withdrew with a loss of 2,500 men. Cromwell lost more at Clonmel than he had in all the other battles in Ireland put together. Some speculate that Cromwell would have lost even more men if the promised reinforcements had arrived.

In the end, the Parliamentarians took Clonmel not by force of arms but the lack of supplies and the ineptitude of the Duke of Ormonde. The fact that Hugh O'Neill and his men managed to sneak out of town during the night before Clonmel fell also doesn't say much for Cromwell's vigilance.

Less than a month later Cromwell returned to England, which was facing a threat of invasion from Scotland, which had declared for the exiled King Charles II (a Celt ... a Stuart). He left Ireton in command. The war in Ireland continued on the Duke of Ormonde's forlorn hope that Charles II would come in from Scotland, but, for the most part, the Irish effort had degenerated into bands of guerrillas known as Tories. Two months after Clonmel, Bishop Hebere Mac Mahon led an Ulsterman army of Catholics against Sir Charles Coote, against the advice of Henry O'Neill ... Owen Roe's son. The bishop was captured, hanged, drawn and quartered on the order of Coote and Ireton. The bishop had appealed to Owen Roe O'Neill to spare Coote at the siege of Derry several years earlier. Ireton captured Waterford on June 21 and tried but failed to take Limerick. Coote narrowly defeated the remnants of Owen Roe O'Neill's army at Scariffhollis. At the end of 1650, Ormonde left Ireland and was replaced by the Earl of Clanridarde, who was just as despised as Ormonde and could not unite the factions. Ireton again tried to take Limerick in June 1651, and after a siege of five months, the city, under the command of Black Hugh O'Neill, yielded. Ireton died of the plague in November, but Edmund Ludlow and Charles Fleetwood completed the subjugation. Both of them later became Lord Lieutenants of Ireland. Galway, the last city to resist, surrendered in May 1652. The war that had begun in 1641 was over, and more than 616,000 people died in the 12 years of the war.

Many today trace the current problems in Northern Ireland back to Cromwell. The British troops in Northern Ireland are referred to as "Cromwell's Boys," and there is hardly a ruined building in Ireland whose destruction is not blamed on Cromwell.


Cromwell: A powerful historical
figure--"warts and all".

Prior to the English Civil Wars, Oliver Cromwell was neither an important member of Parliament nor a person with military experience. Nevertheless, as a member of the English gentry, he was expected to exercise leadership. Most English professional soldiers of the day were royalists, so anyone of wealth who could raise troops for the English Parliament was encouraged to do so. Cromwell's first act was to raise troops on his own and loot valuable silver plate at the University of Cambridge.

He later returned home and organized the Eastern Association Army from five Eastern countries of England, a source of strong support for the Parliament, which provided more men than any other area in England.

Cromwell chose his men for their Protestant religious fervor and implemented strict Puritan discipline. He also promoted officers by ability rather than by wealth, a radical step for the time. For recruiting so many men, Cromwell was promoted from captain to colonel.

Cromwell's troops were so disciplined and dedicated they won against superior numbers at the battles of Grantham, Marston Moor, Naseby and Long Sutton. When he was defeated at Gainsborough on July 28, 1643, his troops were able to retreat in good order and avoided being massacred.

It was at Marston Moor on July 2, 1644, that he earned the name "Ironside." Cromwell, then a lieutenant general, was wounded, but he refused to leave the field. The sobriquet Ironsides was later applied to all his troops.

When the second English Civil War broke out, Cromwell was putting down royalist uprisings. Having accomplished that, he turned his army north and at the eight-day battle of Preston defeated a combined royalist-Scottish force by August 19, 1648, ending the war. His next major act was the Irish campaign.

After Ireland, Cromwell was appointed commander in chief of all forces of the English Commonwealth and was sent to fight the Scots who had declared for King Charles II. The Scottish campaign was not characterized by the same brutality of the Irish campaign. The battles of Dunbar and Worchester, which occurred exactly one year apart on September 3, 1650, and 1651 respectively, were routs of troops rather than massacres of civilians.

Cromwell was the most powerful man in England when the Commonwealth was dissolved in April 1653 and the Protectorate was formed, with Cromwell as Lord Protector on December 16. As lord protector Cromwell ended the naval war with Holland. He also fought a colonial war with Spain in which England captured Jamaica, which remained in British hands until 1962.

Cromwell was less successful on the domestic front. He continually faced threats from both royalists and levellers, a group that wanted to abolish the aristocracy. Tired of the disorder, Cromwell imposed military rule. His decision to divide England into 11 districts under the control of a major general was his most unpopular act. It was also the last time anyone tried to impose martial law in England.

One of the most complex figures in English history, Oliver Cromwell is still either strongly loved or hated. There is ample evidence to justify both sentiments.

[thrashaholic]

Phew, that's a lot of information. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif Cheers Gaelic Cowboy I didn't have much info on the Irish so this'll be very useful.

Currently I'm trying to work on a tech tree, but not having much success, any suggestions would be welcome.

Thrashaholic

[Brianbbj]

Are there going to be released a beta version, so i can have myself an custom battle?

[Auxilia]

Quote[/b] (gaelic cowboy @ Feb. 17 2004,17:53)]One of the most complex figures in English history, Oliver Cromwell is still either strongly loved or hated. There is ample evidence to justify both sentiments.
Couldn't agree more, Gaelic Cowboy. A VERY mercurial character. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[Brianbbj]

There are a table top game rules in the warhammer range named: Warhammer: English Civil War.

Its good inspiration for naming units and what equipment they have and such, and generaly how good they where trained and such. could maybe help you doing the armys and cost of units and such.

The game is done by the Parry Twins, who them selves both play table top games ALOT and are themselved English civil war reenachments.

They have a homepage somewhere

ALSO

I would love this mod to come through, I have thinked myself trying to do it (only for private use). just re-using the units in normal Medieval:TW, late period.

Damn i hope there will come a mod

[Brianbbj]

Hmmm, i forgot to say.

FORGET CAMPAIGN MODE FOR NOW

Just do some units and factions, and let me custom battle

[Duke Malcolm]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (thrashaholic @ Feb. 12 2004,13:41)
The Scottish Royalists(this name will probably be changed)

Why would you need to change it? That is, historically, one of the names used for the 'faction.'

If you did change it the only real option would be the shorter Scots Royalists.


Anyway, since nobody else has spotted this golden opportunity I'm going to humbly request that you make all the highlanders in the mod Farquharsons .


Quote[/b] ]Be careful you don't want to upset the MacDonalds, Robertsons etc

Too late (Although I am not a MacDonald, my name is a sept of MacDonald, but, nevertheless, Clan MacDonald). Farquharson is a tiny clan, MacDonald is Huge And you can even use Clan Donald instead (what the Clan MacDonalds were called before the split into the several clans in thw modern day), which held the Lordship of the Isles.

PS. Weren't the Scottish Covenanters Presbyterian people, not Protestant (which is why the Kirk of Scotland is Presbyterian

PSS. Sounds like a good mod

[thrashaholic]

Sorry if this shows my ingnorance of Scottish history once again, but aren't Presbyterians Protestants? They aren't Catholic or Orthodox so.... I know they aren't Anglican, and that's why the bishop wars happened when Charles I tried to impose Anglicanism on Scotland.

Anyway thanks for showing an interest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif (and I'll try and make sure that no clans get offended in the end product http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

Thrashaholic

[Duke Malcolm]

The Presbyterians are not Protestants, but Anglicans are Protestants.There are so many Presbyterian Churches in Scotland (as in organisations, not buildings). The Church/Kirk of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland, and so many God-damn more.

[Damianos_sophotatos]

Hi,

First off can I say that this sounds like a great idea and should be a great mod Looking forward to it loads.

I did my thesis on the scottish jacobites so I know a little bit about it. Here are the names of the generals of the scottish royalists and covenanters- I hope this helps you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif


Royalists[U]

James Graham The Marquis of Montrose
Sir Alastair MacDonald of Colonsay (commander of the Irish)
Manus O'Cahan (Irish)
Ewen Cameron Of Locheil
MacDonell of Keppoch
Sir William Rollo
Colonel William Sibbald
Nathaniel Gordon
Sir Thomas Ogilvie (Cavalry commander)
The Marquis of Gordon
McIan MacDonald of Glencoe
Stewart of Appin


Covenanters[U]

William Baillie
David Leslie
David Wemyss (Lord Elcho)
Archibald Campbell Marquis of Argyll
Sir Duncan Campbell of Auchinbreck
Earl of Balcarres (Balcarres Lancers were very good)


Also in Montrose's last battle (Carbisdale 1650) there were danish mercernary cavalry and Orkney volunteers.

I hope this helps
DS
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

P.S The Cornish Royalist Bevil Grenville was very cool also. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

[thrashaholic]

Thanks Damianos_sophotatos http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Work's been very slow so far, I've been getting large quantities of art and history coursework, but I'll get back asap.

Thrashaholic

[gaelic cowboy]

Quote[/b] (Auxilia @ Feb. 19 2004,14:22)]
Quote[/b] (gaelic cowboy @ Feb. 17 2004,17:53)]One of the most complex figures in English history, Oliver Cromwell is still either strongly loved or hated. There is ample evidence to justify both sentiments.
Couldn't agree more, Gaelic Cowboy. A VERY mercurial character. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
And remember they had to wait until he was dead before they could hang him. They dug up his body and hanged the corpse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[Auxilia]

Quote[/b] (gaelic cowboy @ Feb. 24 2004,18:21)]And remember they had to wait until he was dead before they could hang him. They dug up his body and hanged the corpse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
Mmmmm nice

Here's another bit of trivia - the Royal Navy have tried to name several warships after the fella since about 1850, but no monarch (they apparently have the last word in these things) has ever given their consent. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[Hross af Guttenburg]

I think that this mod would work best with a large detailed strategy map. Obviously on Great Britain but even more detailed than the Viking Invasion map. Shires and towns, rivers etc could be really important features. With castles and major cities being few, rare and very important. Something really advanced along the lines of HTW's map would be good.

[Auxilia]

Quote[/b] (Hross af Guttenburg @ Feb. 29 2004,16:37)]I think that this mod would work best with a large detailed strategy map. Obviously on Great Britain but even more detailed than the Viking Invasion map. Shires and towns, rivers etc could be really important features. With castles and major cities being few, rare and very important. Something really advanced along the lines of HTW's map would be good.
What Thrashaholic has done, is converted the VI province names to more modern titles, and looking at the areas of control that the combatants started off with (I've got an old but pretty good historical atlas), works pretty well. I've sent him a list of castle names but for the majority of provinces I've gone for the main towns where fighting took place or came close to doing so (eg Bristol, York, Lincoln etc). I also indicated which of these are situated on major rivers, on the coast, at the mouths of rivers and so on.

I've had to use some guesswork, particularly for the Scottish Highlands and for Ireland (Gaelic Cowboy - you might want to make some corrections to my suggestions).

All we need now is an expert on English Civil War architecture to do us some nice maps. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

[gaelic cowboy]

CONFEDERATES
Owen Roe O'Neill SHOULD BE THE MOST POWERFUL CONFEDERATE
Hugh Dubh O'Neill

ROYALISTS
SIR AURTHUR ASTON GOVERNOR OF DROGEDHA
Earl of Inchiquin
MARQUIS OF ORMAND James Butler SHOULD BE THE MOST POWERFUL ROYALIST IN IRELAND
Colonel David Sinnott
Captain Stafford SHOULD BEEN MADE AMENABLE TO BRIBERY AS HE BETRAYED THE GARRISON IN WEXFORD CASTLE
Lord Castlehaven

PARLIAMENTARIANS
Colonel Michael Jones
Henry Ireton
Edmund Ludlow

Just did a quick google all these people were involved in the hostilities in Ireland the conferdarates and royalists should be allied against the parlementariens but only after
1649
try this site if you havent already found them


civil war (http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/index.htm)


ireland (http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blirishrebellion1.htm)

Irealise it may be too late now but i was rereading some of the older posts and a better province for the parlementariens is Brega as dublin would be there the rebel Irish should control ulster and connachta.
OWEN ROE O NIELL defeated with hardly a sweat the scots army in ulster. The royalist's should get laigin and munster as there the richest at the time baring brega.
The marquis of ormand must control laigin as it is the most pwoerful family in royalist terms and was there family seat.
If you want to change the names of the provinces then brega should be dublin ,laigin should be leinster and connachta should connaught these would be the english spellings which would be enforced at the time. Munster could go to the Irish to also to make it harder for the royalists.
Keep up the good work lads. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ] (Auxilia @ Feb. 19 2004,14:22)
Quote (gaelic cowboy @ Feb. 17 2004,17:53)
One of the most complex figures in English history, Oliver Cromwell is still either strongly loved or hated. There is ample evidence to justify both sentiments.

Couldn't agree more, Gaelic Cowboy. A VERY mercurial character.

And remember they had to wait until he was dead before they could hang him. They dug up his body and hanged the corpse


Here's another bit of trivia - the Royal Navy have tried to name several warships after the fella since about 1850, but no monarch (they apparently have the last word in these things) has ever given their consent.
No wonder. I'm not from the British Isles but I consider Oliver Cromwell as just a bloody power-ungry tyrant and a religious fundamentalist. It seems the Royal family agrees with me... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

He was a good commander though. I have no love for Oliver Cromwell but his exploits in both Civil Wars especially Naseby and the crushing battles of Preston and Warrington were exceptional.

[thrashaholic]

Quote[/b] ]Irealise it may be too late now but i was rereading some of the older posts and a better province for the parlementariens is Brega as dublin would be there the rebel Irish should control ulster and connachta.
OWEN ROE O NIELL defeated with hardly a sweat the scots army in ulster. The royalist's should get laigin and munster as there the richest at the time baring brega.
The marquis of ormand must control laigin as it is the most pwoerful family in royalist terms and was there family seat.
If you want to change the names of the provinces then brega should be dublin ,laigin should be leinster and connachta should connaught these would be the english spellings which would be enforced at the time. Munster could go to the Irish to also to make it harder for the royalists.
Keep up the good work lads.


Noted and changed, thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

As it stands at the moment the Irish have all the provinces in Ireland except Dublin (Brega), which belongs to the Royalists, and all the name changes have been done.

Thrashaholic

[thrashaholic]

I've just had a few thoughts:

Maybe the MTW religions could be modded. Religion was a major factor in the Civil War and it would add a bit more flavour to the game. I was thinking along the lines of Anglican, Puritan and Catholic.

I also realised, while working through the region specific file, that the Norway and Denmark regions could be better implented by using their lukmap colours to create two new regions for the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif , then it struck me I could get rid of the two useless sea-regions next to those provinces, and then it struck me that even more provinces could then be added as well. Unfortunately I don't have, or know where to get, a programme to edit lukmaps, and secondly, and probably more importantly, I don't have the skills to edit lukmaps. If someone would be willing to do this for me then I'd be more than grateful.

So, what do people think? The ideas are open to suggestion, so feel free......

Thrashaholic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

Moved to the new mod development forum currently called Edit3 you may follow this topic there. thanks...LOS

[Duke Malcolm]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe the MTW religions could be modded. Religion was a major factor in the Civil War and it would add a bit more flavour to the game. I was thinking along the lines of Anglican, Puritan and Catholic.

What about Presbyterian, that was the whole point of the wars of the covenant in Scotland. I think that they made quite a point that the Church of Scotland is not anglican nor catholic, in the civil war and in that it remained separate from the Anglican Church people in the Treaty of the Act of Union.

[gaelic cowboy]

Here are some Irish Family names for your mod if you need them
Irish families (http://www.ireland-information.com/heraldichall/irishsurnames.htm)

[thrashaholic]

Hello everybody http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif ,

Some bad news I'm afraid: I've got my GCSEs coming up soon( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif ) and I'm afraid to say they must take a precedence over my modding work. If someone wants to step in and take control then be my guest, but I fear that with my exams not ending until late June and with RTW coming out in the Autumn it would not be worth trying to release anything for MTW. Despite this I hope that RTW will be as moddable as the devs say it is, and then an English Civil War mod for RTW could materialise. I would still like people to get involved though, but more on the historical side now, so if anyone has any research they've done into the English Civil War please do post it.

In short: because of my upcoming GCSEs, I intend to postpone this mod until RTW comes out (unless anyone wants to take it up themselves).

I hope everyone can understand my reasoning for doing this, and hope people aren't too disappointed (it was a hard decision to make but I feel its the wiser one, so I don't too much on my plate at once)

Thrashaholic

PS bring on RTW, then we can begin again

[Duke John]

Topic unpinned

The mod has been postponed.

Good luck with your exams thrashaholic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[cegorach]

I am going to prepare the mod, as the first expansion for the Pike & Musket TW1. The thread is in the PMTW subforum.

It is not my priority, but I will prepare it earlier if I get ideas - especially for the units and heroes.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman :book:

[Total War Merc]

I think the idea is amazing and i would definately download this if you ever make it, but i cant help thinking that there would be a shortage of faction choices.

[cegorach]

I think the idea is amazing and i would definately download this if you ever make it, but i cant help thinking that there would be a shortage of faction choices.

Of course, but I will try to make them pretty difficult to play - at least the Irish Confederates and Covenant Scots. Besides preparing this mod won't take much time since it is only a sort of 'hobby work in spare time' between preparing the new release of PMTW for MTW and doing some stuff for PMTW2 and OiM TW.

Regards Cegorach :book:

[Wingman]

This particular area of history is interesting to me. I just finished a very well written book by Christopher Hibbert on the subject. I'm not an experienced modder, but I will would like to try to help anyway I can.

One suggestion I can make is to have the turns progress season by season (or something similar), as the war only lasted 5 years. It would be rather silly to play only five turns.

[cegorach]

It is impossible to change the year-based system, but simply treat the dates as something less important. I will probably treat each year as a season or a month, besides the mod is more about all the wars in the Isles between 1642 and 1653 or even later (to 1744) or earlier ( from earlier wars of Henry the VIIIth ) or both. The current campaign will be started in 1642 and end in 1653, but multiply this numbers with 4 or even 12.
I will later decide...

For now the ECW thread is in Pike & Musket sub-forum in Hosted MOds section of the ORG.

If you are willing to help you can do it there ~;)

[cegorach]

Here is the link to the ECW thread in the sub-forum ~D

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=49035