Thirty Years War mod

[Deceiver]

Yo all
After getting some "moding" experience I am going to kill my free time by making new mod - Thirty Years War in Europe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It will take part in Central Europe and Scandinavia, and I will make as start date 1575 and end date 1675.
I already gathered all info and unit types from that era and I just need to start, but first i would like to ask some questions before I start.

1. I am still wrestling with Lukmap, I dont get it yet.I want to make new map of Germany,Austrian Empire and Scandinavia + Spanish lands in Germany. Do I need to open and modifiy only Lukmap.lbm with new borders form existing one? Maptex doesn't have any connection with that one?

2. How to make "looks" of new units in the battle? in Maya 3D?

3. And last http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif , If you ppl have ideas of some new units and buildings pls tell me. I take advices. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I already have some unit types ( Armoured pikeman, Light pikeman, Aqrebusier, Musketeer, Jaeger, Roundshielder, Militia, Peasant irregulars, Scotish mercenaries, Livonian curassers, Swedish "commanded" musketers, Croatian Hussars, Dragoons, Heavy Curassers, Mounted aqrebusiers, Finnish light cavalry, Organ gun, Culverin, Demi-culverin, Mortar, Hungarian border infantry, Gendarmes, Swedish currasers.)Most of this units are unique to only one faction.
Playable factions will be: Swedish, Danes, Austrian Empire, Spanish, Dutch, Brandenburg, Saxony, Bavaria, Swiss.

P.S. i hope I will "really" start soon...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Julius Caesar]

Nice idea, can't wait to see ur mod finished.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]Playable factions will be: Swedish, Danes, Austrian Empire, Spanish, Dutch, Brandenburg, Saxony, Bavaria, Swiss.


Shouldn't the French be in considering that they was at war with the Spanish and the Austrian Empire and supported the Swedes with money?

Of course you'll need only the eastern parts of France on the map.

It does sound as a very interesting mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[Marshal Murat]

How about the Swedish Cannons, and Arquebisers. They should require less time to reload.
The cannons need to be moveable (ask the Lordz for help)

[Lazul]

As for sweden, all i know is that they used light cannons, as said before me... they should be moveable.
Swedish cavalry was really good as where the finish... well finns where swedes at that time... ehr, something like that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

Well if im not wrong the finish cavalry was called Hakkapelitas or something like that. Should be lightly armored but fanatic and brutal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

Finnaly a mod where the swedes are the best (according to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Nomad]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Sounds Cool,
But as your going to cover more than thirty years couldn't you make a larger map or even use the Current campaign map and make it, a Late Renaissance or Pike and musket mod. That way could have a few Vityaz clashing with Mamluks, Xebecs with Galleas etc etc etc. I know The Blind King was planning something like this, to continue from 1454 to 1575 but its not even passed through the conversation stage. Otherwise I like these mini campaigns, so look forward to what ever you finally produce.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Nomad

[wilpuri]

Lazul, you can't really call the Finns Swedes. Different language and everything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
But yes, they were effective light cavalry, recruited from Finland because the Finnish Horse breed (effectively the same as the Russian) was bigger than the Swedish horses, so they made better horses for battle. The name Hakkapelita (or hakkapeliitta) comes from the battle cry of the Finns "hakkaa päälle" which roughly translated would be something like "hack them down".

Great idea for a mod, can't wait until I get to plunge Europe into turmoil as 'the Lion of the North' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Ellesthyan]

Dude, that would be so cool I'd love to play with good ol' William of Orange, for example, and kick those Spanish butts myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

France really ought to be a big player, as frankly it was one of the main countries participating in the 30 years war.

I advice you to create a totally new map (or just use a smaller part of the current one) and give it a new province lay out. You'll have a load of province slots free so much more options can be filled http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

Absolutely necessary will be implementing the protestant religion. I hope you already know how to do that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

the Dutch: they were basically just rebels of the Spanish (habsburg) empire, but used a German like army. They hired a great amount of troops (usually Germans, Swiss, or Belgians), and recruit more and more native soldiers over the era. Dutch fortifications in the 17th century were very modern and powerful, and many times a siege was lifted by breaking the dikes so that their enemies would have to fight in the water...
The navy of the Dutch was unrivaled in the 17th century, and their admirals very good. Most of the money flowing in Holland came from trade, successful trips to the east and from investments by the filthy rich patricians in Holland.
The rebels had a fair amount of good leaders:
Prince William of Orange 5 1 4 6 clever with words
*first leader of the rebellion*
Lodewijk van Nassau 2 4 5 3 good attacker
*His brother, an able general*
William Lumey 1 6 3 2 merciless
*a "geus", leader of a Dutch pirate fleet*
Prince Maurits 3 5 5 3 great warrior
*Son of William, army commander*
Johan van Oldenbarneveldt *emissary*
*handled the economics of the republic*
Prince Frederik-Hendrik 4 2 6 5 good assaulter
*a great general, and a lover of art*

Take into account that Holland was a Republic, and that the "leader" of that republic was actually nothing more than an army commander. They should be called "Stadhouder", but the prince(ss) can be called prince(ss) as usual.
their names should be something like: William, Filip, Lodewijk, Adolf, Frederik, Maurits, John, Hendrik.

Phew, I hope that'll help you creating the Dutch :) I'm sorry I can't provide you with any unit types. I figure 3 quarter of the army would have been hired anyway...

[Earl of Sandwich]

As far as the question of Dutch names, Blind King's super early mod pack contains a Dutch names list within the names text file.

[Lord Of Storms]

Moved to the new mod development forum currently called Edit3 you may follow this topic there. thanks...LOS

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Deceiver @ Mar. 03 2004,18:24)]3. And last http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif , If you ppl have ideas of some new units and buildings pls tell me.
I like the idea, but I hope You will join in creating the other mod
( Renaissance and Baroque time) as well.

But for now. During the war several hundreds Polish cavalrymen were recruited for the Habsburg army.
One of can be seen on the painting The Polish horsemen (or something like that) by Rembrandt.
The cavalrymen called Lisowczyk ( their first commander was coronel Lisowski) were well known bcause of two things: excellent skill and combat value and brutality. They were simply the scum of the Polish society - ex-soldiers, criminals seeking refuge, deserters, foreigners of unknown origin and so on.

The unit was used first time in the war between Poland and Russia (1609-1617) and formed from the soldiers seeking to loot first, glory second. they were probably the first non-russian soldiers to see icebergs and white bears. During the war were hated and feared.

They entered the 30-year war in 1619. At that time the Vienna was to be attacked by Hungarian forces ( allies of the Czech), they were supported by the Ottoman Turkish ( the ally of France). The Austrians had not enough soldiers to defeat them at that time.
In Poland the present king Zygmunt III ( Sigismund III) was pro-habsburgian, but couldn't join the war because most of the ruling Szlachta ( the Nobles - around 8% of the whole population- 5 times more than in England) had no desire to support supercatholic Habsburg dynasty so decided to let them hire the Lisowczyk cav. The decision was quite popular - You can imagine what kind of 'entertainments' they liked.
So it was decided. The cavalry proved to be really devastating and after defeating quite large Hungarian force they started to burn, kill, rape - everything that was their hobby.
The action was one of several reasons for Turkish attack at Poland in 1621 and the war( won by Poland).

The unit was in use probably for the whole war and probably only by Habsburg and Spanish armies.

In the game. The cavalry was light, fast - even very fast ( almost equals of Tatar cavalry, they were using very good quality horses - so called polish brood) and dyscyplined ( they learned to be during the war in Russia). Armed with a sabre, an axe, pistols, small shield ( sometimes) and an eastern compound bow and were using feigned retreat tactic luring the enemy towards its doom.
They were looking like Szekely cav. but try to find the painting - I'll try to do it myself. and send You if You like.

I hope You like the idea to include them as well.

Hetman/Cegorach http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Deceiver @ Mar. 03 2004,18:24)]
Eastern Europe in 30-year war.

I think You'll find it interesting - still that shouldn't affect the game.

When the war started ( Bohemia) Poland, Turkey, Russia and Sweden had its own problems. Russia just lost the war against Poland and the second one with Sweden. Poland still fought Swedish, who were losing every single battle, but still stubbornly continued to attack Livonia.

In Poland the ruling king was supercatholic Sigismund III, who tried to turn polish democracy into absolutic, catholic monarchy - of course he failed but coused many problems.
During the war he supported the Habsburg Emperor sending polish mercenaries called Lisowczyk, who helped the Austrians to save Vienna in 1619. The event caused several events - first -The Ottomans were outraged ( supported Hungarians who were attacking Vienna) and decided to attack Poland, second - the Swedes were able to capture Riga ( every available soldier was send to fight the Turkish army.
The war against Turkey resulted in status quo peace treaty - in fact the Ottomans had declared that they are going to conquer the whole Poland which was impossible to achieve alone at that time, they lost the only one battle at Chocim and were forced to retreat ( the Turkish sultan was slain in a Janissary revolt after that).
In 1625 the Swedes attacked once again - their aim was Danzig - the most important port and trade center in Poland. They were led by Gustavus Adolphus and soon their reformed army was able to win the battle at Gniew - this was a kind of shock for the Poles - they really used to think about the Swedish army - yes they are stubborn and irritant but no dangerous at all. The war was a draw in many ways - both sides were able to win several battles ( the Lion of the North was almost killed or captured couple of times e.g at Trzciana in 1629.
But still the war resulted in polish defeat and after that the Swedes were able to attack in Germany.

In 1633 the situation changed - The Lion was dead and the next polish king reformed polish army - infantry and artillery was strengthened. The army was able to defeat the Russians at Smolensk and the Ottomans (officially it was a kind of personal invasion) near Chocim in 1633.
The battles also changed situation in the north forcin Sweden to retreat from polish pomerania.

For the rest of war period almost nothing happened, so that's all.

By the way, You should know a book titled The time of wars or something like that - when it comes to Polish-Swedish wars and polish millitary it's mostly the author's version of the real history and millitary especially regarding the cavalry called husaria.

Regards Hetman/Cegorach
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[wilpuri]

http://www.elvijapaulilappalaisensukuseura.fi/Histooria/Pussinen/kuva31.jpg
A painting of the Hakkapeliitat in action.
I have read that the Finnish infantry also marched under the title of hakkapeliitta or hackapelit, since they also used the war cry hakkaa päälle.
The Hakkapeliitta cavalry was fast, lightly armored and its greatest advantage was its charge. The horse itself was used like another weapon, as it was used to trample enemy infantry. They mainly fought with swords, but small firearms were also used.

How is the mod coming along? I am really looking forward to this one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lazul]

Then why not turn the hakkas in to two units.

Hakkapeliitta Infantry... where did you find info about theese?

Hakkapeliitta Cavalry... armoured, good attack, very strong charge.

I really hope this mod will be finished soon. Im looking forward to it, if you need any help finding historical texts and so on just contact me


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Antalis::]

I like this idea of a Thirty Years War mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif


Will it also have a new map?



Antalis

[Earl of Sandwich]

http://www.strategos.demon.co.uk/tywhome/Map.gif
If this loads up properly, it is a map of the Central Europe during the 30 years war time period. Of course, you would have to have the map extend farther north for Sweden.
Even though I don't have modding experience, there are a few aspects where I can offer help.

[Julius Caesar]

So your planning to use this map and extending it?

[Earl of Sandwich]

Well, it's not really my call. Deceiver was the one who proposed this whole thing, but we haven't heard anything from him since the post that started this thread.

[Earl of Sandwich]

Hmmm..I have a strong feeling that this mod is dead. I'd like to hear from Deceiver on this.

[Julius Caesar]

Any News or updates?

[Earl of Sandwich]

I'd like to see a mod like this put forth...although if we don't hear from the founder of this thread soon, then, most likely, he has quit on the project. In that case, perhaps someone else would take up the reins, so to speak. Don't look at me, though- unless you want a map.

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Earl of Sandwich @ May 01 2004,19:26)]I'd like to see a mod like this put forth...although if we don't hear from the founder of this thread soon, then, most likely, he has quit on the project. In that case, perhaps someone else would take up the reins, so to speak. Don't look at me, though- unless you want a map.
I think that it is possible to add 30-years war as additional campaign to a new mod ( XVI-XVIIth century mod).
I'm sure more members would be interested in expanding the MTW into XVI and XVIIth century.
Maybe starting new discussion is better idea.

Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Eastside Character]

There is always a good time for a discussion. I think, this thread doesn't look like the best place for it tho. A mod is mainly a concernt of that who starts it. Here, Deceiver is not showing any signs of interest in the thing, he only made the initial post and that's it. I wonder if it even should be sticked anylonger, as big things, like ME:TW for instance, got unpinned...

Regards,
EC

[Nomad]

Bring on MTW:Renaissance

[Duke John]

Topic unpinned
There is no longer any development going on.

- Duke John