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barocca
09-21-2003, 13:31
we all know what Shogun is,
it's late, i'm tired,
a rough beta will be out for testing soon,

so heres some pics...
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/block_5.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/guns_1.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/CA_9.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/HC_27.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/sea_1.jpg

barocca
09-21-2003, 13:34
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Daim_1.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Oda_f1.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/pikes2.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/yashi1.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/arq3.jpg

barocca
09-21-2003, 13:42
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_01.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_02.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_03.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_04.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_05.jpg

barocca
09-21-2003, 13:50
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_06.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_07.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/n_08.jpg

Antalis::
09-21-2003, 13:54
Looks great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .


Do you also plan, to implementate that you can fight against european forces (I know it would be not historical correct then, but would be a nice feature) (Portugise?), invade japan?


Oh, wow, you´ve implementated ships


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

barocca
09-21-2003, 13:59
Quote[/b] (Antalis:: @ Sep. 21 2003,07:54)]Looks great :D .


Do you also plan, to implementate that you can fight against european forces (I know it would be not historical correct then, but would be a nice feature) (Portugise?), invade japan?


Antalis:: :wave:
not yet,
let me get Shogun mod working first,

it is still rough, i am currently bug fixing castles

can't make any promises for time, i work 10hr shifts,
was hoping to have a beta today, but the castles bit me...

barocca
09-21-2003, 14:27
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/ycav1.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/ycav2.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/ycav5.jpg
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the viking ship has been replaced in the latest test version by one especially made for the mod
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/s_11.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/s_03.jpg

Lord Of Storms
09-21-2003, 17:13
Greetngs B, Looks like all your hard work is paying off http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif The Mod looks great looking forward to playing this, it has such a totally different look to it, I cant wait.and I dont play many Mods of late or MTW for that matter. LOS

amagi
09-21-2003, 17:15
Looks good

What size are the units going to be, the same as Shogun 1.03, or all 60 on normal?

When I was writing about the campaigns I was working on for Shogun I suggested that the maps could be easily replaced with large maps, if there were enough large maps. What maps do you intend to use for your mod? I started work on a replacement Hitachi without its characteristic large wooded hill that makes every defensive battle into mountainous highlands, but it was taking too long for me to do all sixty alone.

CBR
09-21-2003, 18:29
Looks good Barocca http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

CBR

Díaz de Vivar
09-21-2003, 19:51
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Impresive

barocca
09-21-2003, 21:07
Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 21 2003,11:15)]Looks good

What size are the units going to be, the same as Shogun 1.03, or all 60 on normal?It is entirely possible to have multiple campaigns available, in a similar vein to early, late, high.
The unit sizes can also be set in seperate unit_prod files.
It is my hope to have a set of unit/prod stats as close as possible to original Shogun stats, a set for the mongol invasions, and a few custom sets.
I am hoping that during beta testing we can define a specific set for online play.


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 21 2003,11:15)]When I was writing about the campaigns I was working on for Shogun I suggested that the maps could be easily replaced with large maps, if there were enough large maps. What maps do you intend to use for your mod? I started work on a replacement Hitachi without its characteristic large wooded hill that makes every defensive battle into mountainous highlands, but it was taking too long for me to do all sixty alone.Unfortunately i have not discovered how to assign a single map to a single province, but i can assign a map folder from which battles can be fought.
Also i can assign specific castles to specific provinces and specific castle map sets to specific castles.

I have made a model pack for MTW, i intend to update that to VI including a gateless enclosure - similar to the warrior hold enclosure.

A few shogun map conversions already exist, i'll be having a look at those and changing any models on them to Shogun models,
but i am not a map maker, it is my hope that once i have the model pack finished members of the community will "convert" their favourite shogun maps for this mod.


Many people are contributing to this mod, making portrait sets, info pics and the like, there is still plenty of "polish" to add to the mod, and an unpolished beta version will be out soon.

Wellington
09-21-2003, 21:18
Hi B,

This looks very impressive. I'm eagerly awaiting your release of this as I hope to utilise your hard work by checking the VI files you've created for the campaign map stuff and adding the necessary support into LMM.

Two questions, regarding the maps -

1) how are you planning to offer the map TGA's? via a 45meg download or via a smaller download that may be resized?

2) do you have anything to convert the STW BP8 map format into a TGA (or even a BMP)?

Welly

barocca
09-21-2003, 21:34
Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Sep. 21 2003,15:18)]Hi B,

This looks very impressive. I'm eagerly awaiting your release of this as I hope to utilise your hard work by checking the VI files you've created for the campaign map stuff and adding the necessary support into LMM.

Two questions, regarding the maps -

1) how are you planning to offer the map TGA's? via a 45meg download or via a smaller download that may be resized?

2) do you have anything to convert the STW BP8 map format into a TGA (or even a BMP)?

Welly
Hi Welly,

i am hoping the script files i made for this mod will help you define same for LMM, i actually used LMM to get the origins, borders, castles and ports and to create the lukmap files,
then i copied the scipt data across into a viking startpos file.

For the tga map downloads that is something i am going to have to research, what is the best way to convert the file so that a resized image remains as close to a perfect copy as possible?

For the Shogun map i used Fodders as a test set, but i did extract the tgas from the bp8 formats and edit those for the final version.

There should be a bp8 decompressor in the tools downloads and THERE is a copy in your email inbox too
:-)

Wellington
09-21-2003, 22:16
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Sep. 21 2003,15:34)]For the Shogun map i used Fodders as a test set, but i did extract the tgas from the bp8 formats and edit those for the final version.

There should be a bp8 decompressor in the tools downloads and THERE is a copy in your email inbox too
:-)
For the tga map downloads that is something i am going to have to research, what is the best way to convert the file so that a resized image remains as close to a perfect copy as possible?


I have a few thoughts about this B. I'll E-mail you with a few simple suggestions you may wish to try out and see what the consequent loss of resolution is.

Ideally, if I knew the format of a BP8 graphics image, considering many recipients of your mod will already have Shogun it could be a good idea to allow the recipients of your mod to recreate the large TGA's on their own PC's - (via LMM or another small utility).

Ok, I know you've had to amend the image to add the sea region borders but this is'nt really a big problem - the csImageFile software that LMM utilises has a merge function and such a 'problem' with modders having to amend 'standard' maps can be circumvented quite easily. Think of it like this. If we have a small tool (or LMM) that performs merging of images upon images (be they maps or anything) then you can -

1) allow the user to convert the BP8 to a BMP on his own PC (providing he has STW)
2) provide another 24-bit BMP in the download that is the same size as your Shogun map and is just a plain white background but with the drawn sea borders on (ok the BMP may be up to 36 meg - but, considering the sea borders take up so little proportion of the BMP, when zipped it will be less that 60K or so). Try zipping the 30+ meg "Ref_Features.txt" that LMM produces for large maps - you'll see what I mean.
3) LMM or another small utility can do the merging of the users STW map, and your additional BMP that outlines the sea borders.

The result. Small downloads but exactly the same map image as the modder (you ) have residing on your PC.

LMM5 already offers the merging facilites.

If, however, the recipient does'nt have STW - we are back to providing an alternatiove downbload that does'nt lose too much resolution.

Expect an E-mail B.

Welly

rory_20_uk
09-21-2003, 22:24
OHMYGOD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif It looks AMAZING And you've even done the map... I am speechless Congratulations - I can hardly wait to play it Oh, is it installed alongside MTW, or does it require alterations to the existing maps???

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

barocca
09-21-2003, 22:42
Quote[/b] (rory_20_uk @ Sep. 21 2003,16:24)]is it installed alongside MTW, or does it require alterations to the existing maps???
off to work soon so i cant get into too many details,

at this time it is still my intention that this is an expansion mod,
you will still be able to play vikings and medieval,

i am still trying to solve the castles bug, i have already determined that you can have no more than seven different campaign map castle pieces, the flag position command in the campaign script chucks a wobbly at more than seven,
i have got 4 of my seven castles functioning, i suspect my problems were simply an errant comma in the build prod file, but that will have to wait 12 hours till i get home from work...

Eastside Character
09-22-2003, 19:03
No doubt this MOD will rock
Barocca - you're the man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Trousermonkey
09-22-2003, 21:56
This is great I've been waiting for something like this to come along.

I'll be watching this space to see how it turns out.

Tm

The Blind King of Bohemia
09-22-2003, 22:25
This look awesome. I'll probably install another VI so I can make some new bif textures and add some factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

dlundie
09-23-2003, 00:46
makes me happy to see mods like this coming..glad i am a total war fan.

todaswarriors
09-23-2003, 01:22
HeHeHe....happy days.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
I like it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
"& about time 2"...been a long time coming...
leaves dribbling...muwhaaaa http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Goes looking in kitchen for matches to set soup pot alight once again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Nice 1 B http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
A "must" download of 2003

AggonyShim2
09-23-2003, 02:18
time out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ok let me make sure i am getting this right... this is a mod for VI that will include a Shogun campaign? barocca i must say that the grahics look incredible plus i like how the spears do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif if this is only for VI... i will have to step up my efforts to earn money http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

BDC
09-23-2003, 17:52
Looks fun, might not be worth buying Warlords Edition now... Well it's only a fiver. Good job anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

amagi
09-23-2003, 18:48
Barocca,
I've had a look at the 'classic' Shogun maps included in the latest medieval mappack and they just seem to use the original files, so the textures don't match. If you were just going to use random maps from a few map folders that might work, correcting the problems like the Shinano 'cliff' and the Mutsu 'wall' which makes some provinces very difficult for the AI to attack.

Shogun has an excellent interface and runs smoothly, and is also very atmospheric with the mini-movies, music and fog. Apart from the emissary and port 'bug' (is there a mod that stops this?) the major problems are the maps and the AI strategy. The first will take a lot of work to produce sixty quality maps, the second takes a lot of playing and testing and changing numbers. Larger maps with flatter hills and more river crossings would be easier for the battle AI, which makes the campaign better balanced. Better strategy is just fewer attacks and better building choices, so that the game isn't over in the first three years when two of the clans go out over-expanding and causing rebellions.

How much of the original game are you going to attempt to get into Medieval? Are you going to be able to keep features like the seasons rather than the years? If I was going to make a lot of maps for a new Shogun campaign they wouldn't convert to Medieval. A combination of the two games could be better than both of them, but I wouldn't want to lose Shogun's seasons and spy/ninja system to add naval combat and trade.

barocca
09-25-2003, 01:45
Fistly some more teaser pics,
i am battling to overcome a few bugs that crept in, as such things do, currently trying to define all the desired units (which is a little awkward)and add names to factions (which is fairly simple)

http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Nagi_8.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Nagi_10.jpg
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http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Nagi_11.jpg
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Last Ditch Defence
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/Nagi_12.jpg
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Rebel Cavalry advancing
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/reb_cav1.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
09-25-2003, 01:47
Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Barocca,
I've had a look at the 'classic' Shogun maps included in the latest medieval mappack and they just seem to use the original files, so the textures don't match. If you were just going to use random maps from a few map folders that might work, correcting the problems like the Shinano 'cliff' and the Mutsu 'wall' which makes some provinces very difficult for the AI to attack.

The Shogun Tile Sets are available for download, BUT they require an enormous amount of tweaking to bring them up to Medieval standard, the originals are (i think) one quarter the size of MTW tiles,
further MTW has a definate limit on the maximum tiles in a terrain folder, meaning we cant just convert the Shogun tiles and drop them in, i think the limit was either 190 or 200 tiles, i did try this when medieval was released but that was a while ago...
So if someone tweaks some Shogun Tiles up to medieval standard they have a finite limit to work in, meaning some will naturally have to be dropped.


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Shogun has an excellent interface and runs smoothly, and is also very atmospheric with the mini-movies, music and fog.
The mini movie option is not available in the MTW engine.

I can't do anything about atmospherics (fog), those are hardcode, personally i loved playing in fog, some of the old hands around may well remember classic ambushes on fog bound battlefields by me, involving weak decoy forces making frontal assaults while pumped up units made the real assault round the flank...
Shogun featured a "shock" modifier, which i do not think made it into medieval, or if it did it has been reduced somehow, either by units sighting ranges increasing or by the "penalty" being somewhat smaller and applied only to flank attacks. In Shogun the "shock" modifier seemd to work thusly, whereby being charged from any angle by a previously hidden unit that was within normal engagement range caused a morale penalty, many times i watched units with no casualties flee when rushed from close quarters by a hidden unit.

To hear the music you'll need a copy of Warlords, those files are way too large to include in any download.


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]Apart from the emissary and port 'bug' (is there a mod that stops this?)
that was both a bug and a feature - seriously,
the AI did use it, but only when the AI could see the port using a watchtower/border fort and had troops elswhere in a province that had a port - i played a lot with matteosartori turned on, the AI did not like committing troops to long distance invasions.
This mod is using the MTW engine, therefore MTW rules apply, ships block invasions, and you cant invade without ships of your own.


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)] the major problems are the maps and the AI strategy. The first will take a lot of work to produce sixty quality maps, the second takes a lot of playing and testing and changing numbers. Larger maps with flatter hills and more river crossings would be easier for the battle AI, which makes the campaign better balanced. Better strategy is just fewer attacks and better building choices, so that the game isn't over in the first three years when two of the clans go out over-expanding and causing rebellions.

Maps, these cannot be converted direct from Shogun to MTW easily, no-one managed to make a map converter, plus then you have the tiling problems i mentioned earlier,
my hope is to "borrow" some generic maps from medieval, remake them using converted Shogun Models, (which i have made almost all of already, just a few more to go), then i can assign a map folder to the mod.

As for AI strategy, again the MTW engine rules apply.


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]How much of the original game are you going to attempt to get into Medieval? Are you going to be able to keep features like the seasons rather than the years? If I was going to make a lot of maps for a new Shogun campaign they wouldn't convert to Medieval.

Seasons will not be imported in this mod, this is an expansion and must use the MTW engine and rules,
later i may make a reskin and overwrite mod, then i could adjust the years to seasons BUT you would stll get a harvest each season - not very realistic IMHO,


Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 23 2003,12:48)]A combination of the two games could be better than both of them, but I wouldn't want to lose Shogun's seasons and spy/ninja system to add naval combat and trade.

I cant do that, that would involve dis-assembly and hardcoding, something not permitted. Besides, thats beyond my skill range anyway.

Did i miss anything?
B.

amagi
09-25-2003, 02:26
No, that was a comprehensive reply

I've now realised that if I don't have to have large sized maps I can just try out my theory using edited versions of the original maps, so I've been lowering the terrain to see if the AI improves. There is no bridge texture on the editor for large bridges, just a footbridge, so I haven't been able to make all bridge provinces two bridges, but the entire set should only take me about a week. If none of the multiplayer maps have giant cliffs to get stuck at the bottom of, I don't see why the AI should have to cope with it in SP. I seem to remember that MTW maps are flatter as well, though I'm waiting for the VI patch before I try SP MTW again.

barocca
09-25-2003, 06:21
Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 24 2003,20:26)]There is no bridge texture on the editor for large bridges, just a footbridge, so I haven't been able to make all bridge provinces two bridges, but the entire set should only take me about a week.
try placing a bridge, even if it looks too short,
then save the map, quit the editor and go back in again,
i seem to remember some glitch with bridges not always "snapping" to the edges of the rivers when you first place them,
let us know if it works,

Will be very glad to have a set of province maps to use especially for the mod,

I really must get into gear and finish my model pack, that will allow some castle conversion maps as well...

TenkiSoratoti
09-25-2003, 09:47
I can imagine the stress of bringing those tile sets up to MTW BIF standard, very well done
I will not only have a seperate installation for NTW, I will also have one for Shogun

TP

barocca
09-25-2003, 09:48
by the way if you want to "be" part of the mod check this thread,
make an appearance in the Shogun Mod (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=11244)
we need some heroes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

amagi
09-26-2003, 02:50
What I meant was that I was going to change the battlefields for the original game, which is easy....

I haven't the experience or tools to mod the Shogun tilesets, but I thought I'd see how much work it was to simply retile the original maps: if this isn't what you wanted someone might find a use for them. I worked through five maps and I've uploaded the result to the Medieval section: am_shogunmaps_v1 and TEST_am_shogunmaps_v1. These are the 'classic' maps, without the changes I was making for my new campaigns.

Wellington
09-26-2003, 09:35
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Sep. 24 2003,19:47)]Maps, these cannot be converted direct from Shogun to MTW easily, no-one managed to make a map converter, plus then you have the tiling problems i mentioned earlier,
my hope is to "borrow" some generic maps from medieval, remake them using converted Shogun Models, (which i have made almost all of already, just a few more to go), then i can assign a map folder to the mod.
B,

I'll have a quick look at the format of STW battlefield maps.

I already understand the MTW map formats (I detailed it in the MTTM thread) and I suspect the old STW maps won't be so different. As I already have some code to decipher MTW maps maybe an STW to MTW map converter is not so hard.

I presume you've already tried copying STW maps to MTW and it does'nt work?

I'll have a quick look at the STW map format and see what happens.

Welly

Wellington
09-26-2003, 10:58
B,

Ok. Some STW maps work fine in MTW, others don't. The difference is whether or not any STW specific models are defined within the map (also you must create an MTW ".inf" file type for the STW map).

Copy the STW map "bingo" to MTW SavewMaps (create an ".inf" as well for it) and try a custom battle using that map. Works fine.

Why? Because "bingo" does'nt contain models within the map. Any STW map that DOES contain models references the STW names and hence (as such names don't exist in MTW) the map fails to load.

This is not a problem as the code I currently have (from MTTM) can optionally strip models/trees from an MTW map - therefore we can quite easiliy convert STW maps to MTW (providing you understand you will lose all of the STW models/castles on the map - simply because there are no equivalent MTW names for such STW models).

Ok, so that will work fine.

Next problem is the tilesets. If you tried the "bingo" test above in MTW you will see th etiles are crap. This is because the relevant mapping between the STW and MTW tilesets are not correct. Therefore we would have to provide a parameter file that maps to there quivalent MTW ones (just as LMM does such mapping for colour palettes via parameter files). Again this is not a problem - providing I can see the damn STW tile sets

I got the BP8 decompressor you sent but I also need the "RSW_Riptga.exe" to see the STW tiles - and I'm NOT fighting the Orgs 3ddownloads again

B, E-mail me this 30k utility from RSW (riptga.exe? ) and I'll check out the mapping. Hopefully we can somthing to do this STW->MTW map conversion very quickly.

One final point is whether the tile bits in the maps (STW and MTW) are equivalent. These tile bits control the orientation and flipping of tiles (8 possibilities). I have no reason to suspect the logic is different from STW to MTW (as the map formats are the same - albeit with different model names) so I presume this would be ok. If not we can add 'mapping' parameter files for this as well.

Final question - did you intend to use the exact tile sets from STW into MTW? I suspect this isn't necessary. Providing the MTW tiles provide similar textures - whats the point?

Welly

Whitey
09-26-2003, 11:23
is this modification actually working in multiple turns?


and I guess a VI map doesn't need the pope...

and, Welly, I have been looking for your LMM around - I have been out of luck, its not on the org anymore, my searching efforts have so far been in vain,

Whitey

Wellington
09-26-2003, 11:54
Quote[/b] (Whitey @ Sep. 26 2003,05:23)]and, Welly, I have been looking for your LMM around - I have been out of luck, its not on the org anymore, my searching efforts have so far been in vain,

Whitey
Hi Whitey,

Check this recent thread -

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....t=10951 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=10951)

Welly

barocca
09-26-2003, 13:31
Whitey, this mod works 100%, i have completed a few campaigns in it, at this point it is vastly unpolished, and the tech tree is very flat,
i have some 300 images to import and quite a lot of text editing to do before it is finished, (the polish),

as soon as i have a decent unit mix, and have broadened the depth of the tech tree i will release a beta version, i am confident you lot will find some bugs that i have overlooked,

the polish (finishing touches) will come after the beta,
B.

The Blind King of Bohemia
09-26-2003, 13:47
You have done a great job there Barocca, well done dude http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
09-26-2003, 13:50
Wellington,

i have asked for a retrieval of a thread from the previous incarnation of the org forums,
where Kraellin, Glijay and I disected the composition of the STW and MTW maps, i believe RSW also had some input,

if my memory is working the tiles are "flipped" 90 degrees clockwise, meaning a re-orientation would be required, if we can retrieve the thread all that data is in it,

there is also a tilemap i made when the demo was released,
i am hoping to recover that from the thread also,
if i cannot then i should be able to find a copy of it here somewhere,
it will no longer be 100% accurate, new tiles were added for the release, BUT it is a good start,

if my memory is working properly the stw tiles, when imported to mtw are very dark, they also may be blurry,
it would be preferable to use as many mtw tiles as we can, and perhaps to "touch up" those unique shogun tiles that we feel really need to be ingame,
providing we keep such a set of tiles down to about 20 or so we may have a workable solution,

The exact limits of the number of tiles that mtw can store in its folders is also in the old thread i am trying to track down...

this may take a couple of days,
just got off an eleven hour shift, and have another 10hr shift tomorrow,
i managed to squeak out of doing seven in a row, but may still have four more after a days rest, will find out tomorrow,


ALSO i am making a model pack featuring many of the shogun models, perhaps the new model pack names can be substituted for the old ones?
a rough beta of this pack is in the orgs downloads, but it is a little rough, and the "shogun gates" are impassable,
i HAVE a highly possible fix for the gates and i WILL investigate that tomorrow night.

also could we substitue mtw trees for shogun trees during the conversion process ??


riptga is on it's way,
sorry i forgot to add that in the file i sent

Orda Khan
09-26-2003, 16:56
Words cannot express how eager I am to install this Mod. Barocca, you have done a fantastic job ( don't the Shogun units look like they could really do some damage? ) I scanned through these screen shots and I made a mess in my chair http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Somebody mentioned maps....Yes the Shogun Classic maps become a real jumble of tiles...but it only takes a little time to retexture them. I did this with Totomi. Using the MTW/VI engine, does that mean all current maps will be available to use, in MP as well?
Can you give us a shot of some nice Mongol ponies too plz?

......Orda

amagi
09-26-2003, 18:21
Wellington,
All the province maps I've tried loading work, though those with Shogun models lose them. As Orda Khan says, it is easy to retexture them if you use a little latitude, though you will have to put the models back. I looked at Mikawa, which may be slightly more difficult, but I've done another five before tea:

am_Shogunmaps_v11 and TEST_am_Shogunmaps have ten Shogun maps textured using Medieval tiles.

There's not much doubt about which textures to use, especially as the limited number of tree models means that you have to use tree tiles where possible. Like doing small electronic jigsaws. I could have used a 'barren' texture instead of reusing the same texture as for the hilltops at Higo and Bingo, but I thought it might be better to keep the texture count down.

How do the Medieval previews work?

Wellington
09-26-2003, 19:44
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Sep. 26 2003,07:50)]
B,

Ok, I've investigated some more and I'll do a utility (extracted from much of the MTTM stuff) to help with this.

I've got all your E-mails - interesting stuff. The STW TGA (once extracted) turn out to be TGA type 1 (what the f**k ) which is a palletted version of TGA's.

This means there are 4 different types of TGA's used in STW and MTW (1, 2, 9, 10) - good grief

i have asked for a retrieval of a thread from the previous incarnation of the org forums,
where Kraellin, Glijay and I disected the composition of the STW and MTW maps, i believe RSW also had some input,

if my memory is working the tiles are "flipped" 90 degrees clockwise, meaning a re-orientation would be required, if we can retrieve the thread all that data is in it,

there is also a tilemap i made when the demo was released,
i am hoping to recover that from the thread also,
if i cannot then i should be able to find a copy of it here somewhere,
it will no longer be 100% accurate, new tiles were added for the release, BUT it is a good start,


Dont worry too much about this for now. I understand the MTW maps formats and tile stuff, and it looks like the STW .jjm format is indeed the same.

if my memory is working properly the stw tiles, when imported to mtw are very dark, they also may be blurry,
it would be preferable to use as many mtw tiles as we can, and perhaps to "touch up" those unique shogun tiles that we feel really need to be ingame,
providing we keep such a set of tiles down to about 20 or so we may have a workable solution,


There is a good reason for this. MTW tiles are 256x256 true colour TGAs (24-bit), whilst STW tiles are 128x128 8-bit TGAs (colour palettes).

Hence enlarging STW tiles for MTW is not advisable. Not onbly will you lose a little resolution but with only 256 colours in the palette they will indeed look a bit crappy.

The best idea, I think, is to change the STW maps .JJM's tile block data to use the MTW tile sets - thus ensuring good resolution.

This requires a mapping facility which I'll provide as parameters files as input to this utility.


The exact limits of the number of tiles that mtw can store in its folders is also in the old thread i am trying to track down...

this may take a couple of days,
just got off an eleven hour shift, and have another 10hr shift tomorrow,
i managed to squeak out of doing seven in a row, but may still have four more after a days rest, will find out tomorrow,


Don't worry about searching for old threads. The MTW tiles are currently up to 181, which is sufficent for mapping the 160 STW tiles to these.

I know your thinking about adding some of the "special" STW tiles to MTW - but I think this would be difficult (due to the 8-bit palettes in STW such different tile sets are just not compatable).

ALSO i am making a model pack featuring many of the shogun models, perhaps the new model pack names can be substituted for the old ones?

Hhhmmm. Maybe. Trouble is this would tricky changing the .JJM in such a manner IF the names had different length (the .JJM block sizes would change and a lot of recalculation may be necessary).

This would be VERY EASY if your new models names where EXACTLY the same length as the original/equivalent STW model names. Thus I could just replace names of models (again via a mapping paraemter file) without having to ceoncern myslef with new lengths of block sizes within the STW JJMs.

also could we substitue mtw trees for shogun trees during the conversion process ??


This is not a problem. Trees in both STW and MTW .jjm maps are identified via a number - not a name, so no probs there.

Welly

Wellington
09-26-2003, 19:50
Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 26 2003,12:21)]How do the Medieval previews work?
Hi amagi,

I don't quite understand the question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

barocca
09-26-2003, 21:01
Quote[/b] ]Wellington :
...new models names are(sic) EXACTLY the same length as the original/equivalent STW model names... that should be a piece of cake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
in approximately 24 hrs i will be on my "day off" and will attack this problem, also make a shogun gate model that is not impassable i hope

amagi
09-26-2003, 22:24
Hi Wellington,
By 'previews' I mean whatever the MTW version of the Shogun TGA files is. I made TGAs for the maps I converted following the instructions in the upload guide but they don't work for Medieval which has a view of the map that pans.

I was hoping to manually 'map' the Shogun tiles onto MTW tiles but there were problems with blending the tree tiles. I may have made a mistake, but it seemed easier to change the maps slightly to use an intermediate grass colour.

TenkiSoratoti
09-29-2003, 01:01
Major *Bump*, I'm not letting this run away

TP

spmetla
09-29-2003, 09:10
So will this mod run along side Viking Invasion or will in need to install a second VI? I don't mind doing either, just asking.

And congrats on all the hard work you guys are doing.

Wellington
09-29-2003, 10:04
Quote[/b] (amagi @ Sep. 26 2003,16:24)]Hi Wellington,
By 'previews' I mean whatever the MTW version of the Shogun TGA files is. I made TGAs for the maps I converted following the instructions in the upload guide but they don't work for Medieval which has a view of the map that pans.

I was hoping to manually 'map' the Shogun tiles onto MTW tiles but there were problems with blending the tree tiles. I may have made a mistake, but it seemed easier to change the maps slightly to use an intermediate grass colour.
Ah ... now I understand.

Your problem is probably related to the fact that SHogun generally used type 1 TGA's (8-bit) whilst Medieval uses type 2's (24-bit). The format's completely different so whatever you are using to convert TGAs maybe does'nt recognise type 1's.

As for tile mappings, I'm currently writing something for Barocca (well thats not exactly true - I'm just more support into MTTM to handle this STW->MTW tile and map conversion) which will be available in around a week or less.

This will allow you to do many things, including what you attempted. One fo the advantages of this tool is that not only can you change tiles to map to the contents of maps, but also the contents of the maps themselves (in other words replace some tile numbers with others actually within the .jjm)

Welly

Lancer6969
10-01-2003, 19:36
Any more updates coming soon?

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

dessa14
10-03-2003, 09:19
Brillant Absolutly Brilliant Keep Up The Good Work. if it is possible could you polish up the unit pictures when right clicked on to be like the ones in the original STW thanks dessa

barocca
10-03-2003, 22:35
got a whole swag of portraits into play overnight,
some transfer accross very nicely, others are a bit pale, plus STW didn't have too many in the first place so we have all had to be a little creative in sourcing them,
here's some of my favourites generals and daimyo's.
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_01.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_02.jpg- http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_03.jpg - http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_04.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_05.jpg- http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_06.jpg - http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_07.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_08.jpg- http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_09.jpg - http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_10.jpg


http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_11.jpg- http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/p_12.jpg

:wave:

Lord Of Storms
10-03-2003, 22:50
Looking good B http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

NagatsukaShumi
10-03-2003, 23:04
One word for this MOD, AMAZING.

Can't wait to be storming the fields of Japan once again, any plans to add more factions than on Shogun?

barocca
10-04-2003, 04:44
Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ Oct. 03 2003,17:04)]One word for this MOD, AMAZING.

Can't wait to be storming the fields of Japan once again, any plans to add more factions than on Shogun?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

yes i have plans for more campaigns with more factions,

a faction by itself takes a fair amount of work,
making the flags, researching the Daimyo's, generals and characters of note.

So first up i want to get the Sengoku Era into play,
that will be closely followed by the Mongol Invasions, maybe both of them, but definately the Invasion from the Warlords pack,
then we will try and get real fancy and add a whole swag of new factions.
:-)

oh yes,
campaigns too,
i'd like to make the Onin War, the Gempei war and the Meiji Restoration campaigns once i get the main Sengoku and Mongol campaigns working
:-)

NagatsukaShumi
10-04-2003, 11:21
Sounds very good barocca, I look forward to your MOD's release eagerly.

Emp. Conralius
10-04-2003, 20:12
SOunds very promising I always liked the strategic atmosphere of Shogun a lot more than MTW. How will castle siege be handled? Any siege engines this time 'round? My history in that period of time is still hazy...

barocca
10-05-2003, 08:11
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
hi guys,
i'm a bit tired at the moment,
been doing a ton of reading to get as many histroical characters as i can into play,
also made all the building coloured info pics,

am currently fiddling around with the unit info pics,
then i make the review panel pics and finally the battle card/review pics,
so here are some samples of what i've been doing with the unit info pics, these are only sample versions, i just happened to have the whole lot in one file for size reference purposes...
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/a_ip_tests.jpg later http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
B.

barocca
10-05-2003, 12:24
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/a_ip_tests-2.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Marshal Murat
10-05-2003, 14:04
Hey, can you make a Korean Campaign, in place of the Viking Campaign, to add some flavor, if you will. Looks awsome. Also can you make some plain samurai, armed with only katanas and wahazakis and tantos, this would be like a Kensai but not as powerful.

Emp. Conralius
10-05-2003, 20:15
Everything seems to be shaping up nicely Will any of the unit sizes go up to 200 for the STW units? And how exactly will castle siege be resolved?

I like Marshal Murat's idea of a new "plain" Samurai unit. And believe you me, I think STW is a masterpiece, but I think each clan should get a unique unit. I think this would do away with the "samey" feeling you get when 2 huge Samurai armies do battle. Like Ueusugi Elite Archers/Bowmen, Shimazu Blade Masters or Shimazu Katana Samurai. Or for the Hojo: Imperial Guard or Elite Bushi Infantry.

The enhancments from MTW will definately help. I wonder what provincial titles there will be. And trade and actually building a navy sound promising. I too like Murat's idea of a Korean campaign. But those are just my thoughts. I commend you guys for what yourt doing and I'm eagerly anticipting the end result.

Marshal Murat
10-05-2003, 21:47
If I remember correctly the samurai ships where like fortresses on hulls, bristling with cannons and such.
Mori:Warrior Monk Bowmen (Elite bowmen, armed with Nagi)
Shimazu:Blade Masters (No Dachi and Kensai mix)
Usegi:Elite Archer (Couldn't think of anything else)
Imagawa:Emmissary Assasins (going along with Assasin traits not sure if a real warrior)
Takeda:Heavy Takeda Calvary (Calvary Charges
Hojo:Garrison Soldiers (for the forts)
Oda:Long Spearmen (Swiss Pikemen like)
Rebeals:Ikko Ikki (Ashigaru Yari with improved attack)
Also for sieges, we could have special samurai gunmen with a palisade and mon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Jeebus_Frist
10-07-2003, 20:33
Barocca, you are my personal hero This is unreal It makes me want to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif again

Brilliant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

NagatsukaShumi
10-07-2003, 21:35
Barrocca,

Would you like some help with research? I have some free time on my hands aside researching my own MOD, I'd be happy to help.

TenkiSoratoti
10-07-2003, 22:48
Well this mod best be using similar stats to the 1.03 community build patch for MI. Can't be having rampaging killer Muskies and Spears that beat Swords can we?

TP

barocca
10-08-2003, 08:39
Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ Oct. 07 2003,15:35)]Barrocca,

Would you like some help with research? I have some free time on my hands aside researching my own MOD, I'd be happy to help.
at the moment i still have to find some leader type persons for Takeda, Uesugi, Hojo and the Mongols for both invasions,

Shimazu, Oda, Imagawa and Mori have enough (or almost enough)

- goal is 20+ Daimyo's, heirs and potential heirs,
and 100+ generals...
any characters of historical note qualify,

barocca
10-08-2003, 08:42
Quote[/b] (TenkiPanda @ Oct. 07 2003,16:48)]Well this mod best be using similar stats to the 1.03 community build patch for MI. Can't be having rampaging killer Muskies and Spears that beat Swords can we?

TP
i have 2 choices,

first choice is an overwrite mod, replacing the current version of medieval,

second version (preffered) is an expansion mod,

drawbacks to first version include losing all current campaigns, meaning a complete second installed copy of medieval,

drawbacks to second version are the inability to alter the projectile stats file and losing the capability to assign custom portraits.

Second version is preferred, not being able to assign portraits is a minor nuisance,

second version also means uber muskets are impossible,
they are much closer to 1.03 than 1.0, .01 or .02...

Iced~Metal
10-08-2003, 13:09
Hey barocca,

I was wondering if you have time, could you zip up and send me the unit graphics for the arbalesters, I'm making a mod and I don't have Shogun anymore.

gothik_wrath@yahoo.com

Duke John
10-08-2003, 14:03
Just thinking that our Administrator might be given something for his hard work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif So if I would make a few models for you, what would you like to see? Preferable infantry and with some concept images/links. Or are the Shogun BIFs suffucient?

After ancient, medieval but still fantasy I'm looking for a new area, abuse me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif After looking at those Shogun units again, then it's a shame the Medieval units look so bad compared to the Japanese. I almost start to think that my models are not better anymore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Cheers, Duke John

TenkiSoratoti
10-08-2003, 15:11
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Oct. 08 2003,02:42)]i have 2 choices,

first choice is an overwrite mod, replacing the current version of medieval,

second version (preffered) is an expansion mod,

drawbacks to first version include losing all current campaigns, meaning a complete second installed copy of medieval,

drawbacks to second version are the inability to alter the projectile stats file and losing the capability to assign custom portraits.

Second version is preferred, not being able to assign portraits is a minor nuisance,

second version also means uber muskets are impossible,
they are much closer to 1.03 than 1.0, .01 or .02...
Well I hope you come to a wise decision.
A total re-install of MTW you say? I think most of us here would be willing to do that.
The final point you make is quite pleasing, Muskies definately need to be closer to 1.03 than they are to 1.0, 1.01 and 1.02.

TP

Jeebus_Frist
10-08-2003, 18:20
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Oct. 08 2003,02:39)]
Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ Oct. 07 2003,15:35)]Barrocca,

Would you like some help with research? I have some free time on my hands aside researching my own MOD, I'd be happy to help.
at the moment i still have to find some leader type persons for Takeda, Uesugi, Hojo and the Mongols for both invasions,

Shimazu, Oda, Imagawa and Mori have enough (or almost enough)

- goal is 20+ Daimyo's, heirs and potential heirs,
and 100+ generals...
any characters of historical note qualify,
Takeda

Takeda Shingen
Takeda Nobutora
Takeda Katsuchiyo
Takeda Nobushige
Takeda Yoshinobu
Takeda Katsuyori
Takeda Nobutsuna
Takeda Nobutomo
Takeda Nobumoto
Takeda Harumobu
Takeda Yoshinobu
Takeda Nobuchika
Takeda Nobuyuki
Takeda Nobukare
Takeda Katsuyori
Takeda Nobukatsu
Takeda Nobumutsu
Takeda Harukiyo
Takeda Yoshihisa
Takeda Nobukado
Takeda Nobuzane
Takeda Nobumari
Takeda Nobutoshi
Takeda Masayori

Takeda Generals

Abe Katsutoshi
Akazawa Tsuneyasu
Akiyama Nobutomo
Amari Torayasu
Amari Masatada
Anayama Nobukimi
Asahina Nobuoki
Asari Nobutane
Ashida Nobumori
Atobe Katsusuke
Hajikano Masatsugu
Hara Toratane
Hara Masatane
Imafuku Masakazu
Kiso Yoshimasa
Komiyama Tadamoto
Kosaka Masanobu
Naitô Masatoyo
Obata Toramori
Obata Masamori
Obata Nobusada
Obu Toramasa
Oyamada Nobushige
Oyamada Masatatsu
Oyamada Masayuki
Saigusa Moritomo
Sanada Yukitaka
Sanada Nobutsuna
Sanada Masayuki
Sone Masayo
Shimojo Nobuuji
Tada Mitsuyori
Tsuchiya Masatsugu
Urano Shigenari
Yamagata Masakage
Yamamoto Haruyuki
Yakota Takatoshi
Itagaki Nobutaka
Baba Nobufusa

Uesugi

Uesugi Kenshin
Uesugi Sadanomi
Uesugi Funayoshi
Uesugi Noramasa
Uesugi Kagekatsu
Uesugi Kagetora

Uesugi Generals

Nagao Tamekaga (nominal vassal)
Nagao Harukage (nominal vassal)
Jinbo Nagamoto (nominal vassal)
Nagao Masakage
Amakasu Kagemochi
Amakasu Kagetsugu
Ayukawa Kiyonaga
Honjô Shigenaga
Honjô Hidetsuna
Irobe Katsunaga
Jojo Masashige
Kakizaki Kageie
Kawada Nagachika
Kitajô Takahiro
Kitajô Kagehiro
Kojima Motoshige
Kojima Yatarô
Murakami Yoshikiyo
Nakajô Fujikasuke
Nakajô Kageyasu
Naoe Kanetsuna
Naoe Kanetsugu
Okuma Tomohide
Saitô Tomonobu
Samponji Sadanaga
Shibata Naganori
Shibata Shigeie
Suda Chikamitsu
Suibara Takaie
Takemata Yoshitsuna
Usami Sadamitsu
Yamayoshi Toyomori
Yasuda Akimoto
Yasuda Nagahide
Yoshie Kagesuke

Hojo

Hojo Ujiyasu
Hojo Ujitsuna
Hojo Tsunanari
Hojo Ujimasa
Hojo Ujitera
Hojo Ujikuni
Hojo Ujinori
Hojo Ujitada
Hojo Ujimutsu
Hojo Genan
Hojo Shinzaburo
Hojo Tsunashige
Hojo Ujishige
Hojo Ujinao
Hojo Ujisada
Hojo Naoshige
Hojo Ujifasa
Hojo Soun
Hojo Tokimasu
Hojo Tokimune

What I have read about the Hojo indicates that their refusal to submit to Toyotomi Hideyoshi put them in an extremely defensive position. Since their wars were primarily defensive I keep running into family memders but not generals.

I hope this list helps somewhat. I have taken these names directly from the Samurai Archives (http://www.samurai-archives.com/index.html). Please let me know if I can be of further help.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

TheSilverKnight
10-08-2003, 20:55
How do you get a different campaign map without changing the original or Viking one??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I'm amazed, Barocca. Good job http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I'll be awaiting the release of this one, too

Jeebus_Frist
10-08-2003, 21:43
Mongols

Kublai Khan
Bayan
Uriyangkhadai
Uighur Arik Khaya
Jalairtai
Fan Wenhu (chinese)

to be continued...

Still working on the Mongols;)

Marshal Murat
10-08-2003, 23:35
i got a sourcebook on clan members of Samurai by Stephen Turnbull
MORI
Mori Yoshiyasu
Mori Yoshinari
Mori Nagayoshi
Mori KAtsunaga
Mori Tadamasa
Mori Motonari
Mori Terumoto
Mori Hidemoto
Mori Takamasa
SHIMAZU
Shimazu Takahisa
Shimazu Yoshihisa
Shimazu Yoshihiro
Shimazu Iehisa
Shimazu (Matsudaira)Ieshia Tadatsune
Shimazu Norihisa
Just the families found in the book not all and the generals.

TenkiSoratoti
10-10-2003, 00:07
*Bump* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

TP

Emp. Conralius
10-10-2003, 01:42
Barocca,

Not to get ahead of ourselves, but will there be any new units that you're going to add to the mix. Perhaps a unique unit fo r each faction as mention before?

barocca
10-10-2003, 03:41
for the beta there will be a basic mix of standard units,
for mongols, same same,

but also in the pipeline are expanded campaigns featuring new units and some unique units for each faction,
hopefully we can balance them for online play.

TenkiSoratoti
10-10-2003, 13:52
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Oct. 09 2003,21:41)]balance them for online play.
Can I help with that at all?

TP

Vinsitor
10-10-2003, 16:28
GL barocca, I loved Shogun/MI, this mod seems very cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Marshal Murat
10-11-2003, 23:38
Any new info, if so please tell also when is the mod to come out to fill the void between now and the RTW mod.

Marshal Murat
10-12-2003, 00:39
Also i would like to ask what the units are to be, the new ones, or is that to be a surprise?

barocca
10-12-2003, 03:22
there will be new units and old units,
the plan is for a standard shogun era campaign, plus modified ones where factions will get unique units with unique abilities,
:-)

Vinsitor
10-12-2003, 13:04
Sorry Barocca, there will be a MP compatibility?

barocca
10-12-2003, 13:29
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Oct. 12 2003,07:04)]Sorry Barocca, there will be a MP compatibility?
i think so,
we are not adjusting the projectiles file, no real need to do so, thus this mod can stay alongside the current Medieval game and Vikings expansion,

cannot guarantee that 100% yet,
only have about 800 or so of the generals names input into game, will have to see what happens when i get past 1500 new names...

BTW this mod has been sent for Rough Beta testing to the STW mod Beta Team, lots of glitter and shine still to add,
but we know it's functional - now we just have to get it all refined and shiny :-)

Vinsitor
10-12-2003, 13:33
A very good new, tnx Barocca :

PS: I hope there will be KENSAIS too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
10-12-2003, 13:42
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Oct. 12 2003,07:33)]PS: I hope there will be KENSAIS too :D
yep, they made it into the mod
:-)
along with some brand spanking new units too
:-)

Vinsitor
10-12-2003, 13:59
Tnx Barocca http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Marshal Murat
10-12-2003, 17:23
What about the other weapons used by the samurai, like mace, it wasn't used much, but it worked. Also could you create a pavise arbaqiuesr of sorts, for sieges and such?
Also can we have the prisoner thing included, but i could represent heads take?

Wellington
10-15-2003, 14:58
*** Bump ***

B,

Is it your intention/desire to include the STW tilesets (that match the STW maps) in your mod (in which case the user would have to have a unique 'MTW-specifically-for-STW' type installation. Alternately, or do you intend/wish to have the STW maps representing/converted to MTW tilesets - OR - do you wish to have both MTW and STW tilesets within your mod (far more difficult but, perhaps, possible)?

What's you preference?

Welly

barocca
10-16-2003, 12:43
Hi Welly,

this first STW mod will be easiest using the MTW tiles,

a second "skin" mod is planned, reskinning MTW to Shogun,
the reskin would require a "made for Shogun" install of mtw, BUT that plan may yet come to nought, and is not going to be any time soon in any case.

If you think it is fairly easy to blend some of the STW tiles into MTW, then we can provide those tiles with the mod download,
if it is not easy to blend stw tiles into mtw, then the first option (use mtw tiles) is acceptable.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
B.

Bevan of Hertfordshire
10-18-2003, 21:24
Could you find a way to stick the video's in again or would that be to hard?

Jacque Schtrapp
10-18-2003, 22:10
Quote[/b] (Bevan of Hertfordshire @ Oct. 18 2003,15:24)]Could you find a way to stick the video's in again or would that be to hard?
I believe I remember seeing a post from one of the Devs that MTW does not support videos like STW did. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Marshal Murat
10-19-2003, 12:53
Well what about adding it to the files, and then somehow linking it to attacks and death and such?
Just a suggestion

barocca
10-19-2003, 13:13
sadly that would require skills that i do not possess,
the ability to interpret memory calls, identify the action for that call, interrupt the memory call and run media player for a set amount of time,
then re-instigate the memory call,
sorry - not my cup of tea...

Robbie-san
10-19-2003, 23:50
Sensei Barocca,
How far along is your project? When do you anticipate the beta release? Is there anything that I or others could do to assist you with the project? I used to be a graphic designer and know how to use Adobe Photoshop quite well.
Peace,
Robbie-san

dessa14
10-23-2003, 09:22
hey barocca good work im really looking foward to it i would help but im currently working on my own mod called Conquistador Tw (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=12100) anyway could you give a wild stab in the dark at when your mod will be finished
thanks dessa

YAY MY ONE HUNDRETH POST

barocca
10-26-2003, 13:15
um - soon is all i can say,

take today for example,
i adjusted my build prod file last night, some buildings were never being built, so i had to go and fiddle with AI influences,
i fiddled with them lots,
loaded the game and it crashed,

so i went back to my previous build prod file and copied across one line/building at a time from my new one into the old one,
reload the game - it works,
now copy the next and so on and so on,
very time consuming

anyway got to the last building and thought this has GOT to be the one i broke
NOPE,
it works...

the files appear to be identical, BUT there must be a tab or something out of place in the header (where all the notes are) because the one i spent all last night making does not work,
but the one i made today, by copying the "broken" one across one line at a time does work...

go figure
and a day wasted...

so the best i can offer is soon,
i HOPE that by next weekend i will have the mod to a stage where i am comfortable releasing a beta version into the wilds, lets just hope i dont get too overloaded with work this week..
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Wizard
10-26-2003, 16:18
Man, Barocca - serious kudos... it looks awesome, absolutely awesome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Fearless
10-31-2003, 13:12
Looking forward to this mod Barocca.What is the expected time of arrival?

Marshal Murat
11-02-2003, 14:34
i wonder if Barocca is comming back to give us new info.

Eastside Character
11-02-2003, 14:43
Let just Barocca do his thing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Jacque Schtrapp
11-02-2003, 18:02
Barocca works a lot and has quite a bit of responsibility at the Org as well. He isn't going to disappear and leave the mod incomplete. Too many of us know what country he lives in.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
11-03-2003, 06:08
BETA VERSION
expected time of arrival is very soon,

and this next bit is just between you , me and the gatepost,

Tosa has the files for the Beta version, i sent them to him before i went to work,
as soon as he has them up on 3D and Mizu server he'll let us know, i think he's asleep at the moment
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

what will you need?
a CLEAN fresh install of MTW + Viking Invasion + v2.01 patch

then we just sit and wait for Tosa to tell us the files are checked, valid and online.

keep this quiet for the moment,
the BETA version won't be too long at all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
B.

Scipio
11-03-2003, 06:12
Great news Im going to be in the dark dungeons of my house playing this mod at 2:00 in the morning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
btw is this a expansion install not erasing any of my mtw files?

NagatsukaShumi
11-03-2003, 14:14
Excellent news Barrocca, I'll make sure I make a new directory just for this one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Whitey
11-03-2003, 16:22
its here...in 18 parts...

am looking forward...

NagatsukaShumi
11-03-2003, 17:41
I can't open the first one I downloaded and the 18th in parts refuses to let any files be taken out of this ZIP file.

Lancer6969
11-03-2003, 17:53
I wont tell anybody..... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

spmetla
11-03-2003, 19:54
Where do you get it an? I check the files on the homepage at The Org but nada.

Pat
11-03-2003, 20:13
Great work, Barocca http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

...and a nice working map, too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

cheers

Pat

(I had to use winrar (upgraded to v.3.20) to
actually be able to unzip the files (starting with the
file "BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces.zip" which seems to
hold the "links" to other files e.g in that order..
(I couldn't wait for the official release too..)

Aelwyn
11-03-2003, 22:25
Hmm I looked for it all over as well, but no dice. I looked all over at the 3D site, and here on the Org as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Marshal Murat
11-03-2003, 22:27
So pat, we have to download 18 first and work our way backwards, and what the heck is Windra, also how do you get past the "select archives" stuff
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Jeebus_Frist
11-03-2003, 22:36
Just for the record I'm going to assume that the mod is in 18 pieces to accomodate the Org's upload procedure. I'd then imagine that Tosa will be re-assembling the file and making it available for download. I'm sure he will make this his top priority after he wakes up from his nap. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Winrar is a newer alternative to winzip. IMO it is actually faster and easier to use than winzip. Download for a free trial period.

winrar (http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Whitey
11-04-2003, 02:29
remove the .zip from the first file (something like stw4mtw01.zi0.zip)

been playing all afternoon, as the Date clan...

wow - Uesugi have a real thing about ships, they simply own the entire coast of Japan, when I finally got my ships up and running I saw, they've 'colonised' (for lack f a better word) almost half of the seaside provinces - this game is very very nice...did spot one or two minor problems, but forgot them just as quick,

great work barocca...but maybe tone down the uesugi shipbuilding just a tad, its great as it now is, but they suffer a bit on land for having about 50 ships

Whitey

Aelwyn
11-04-2003, 02:47
I also love it as well, very well done Barocca http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif I like the new pictures, and some of the things you've added. I like how Ashigaru Crossbowmen are more vulnerable to cavs, and have negative bonuses vs them like anti-cav have positive bonuses. I have only been playing a little whlie though, but have noticed a few things.

If you are going to keep prices as they are, then its no problem, but otherwise farming upgrades seem to add a bit much income. But with the costs as high as they are, I suppose its no problem. 1050 koku for an 11 man unit takes up a large part of that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Kensai are too powerful. I like how powerful they are, but nevertheless its too much. I haven't built a single one yet, so I dunno what their actual build price is, but I hire them as mercs for 600 koku. With a support cost of only 2, their stats are way too high. In the first battle I fought with one, he gained 6 valour http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif He killed 91 men, and ended up at valour 8, with something like 25 attack, and 16 defense or so. He literally gained 2 valour on the charge at the beginning.

Some of the sea regions extend just outside the map, but its ok from what I saw, the highlight when moving a ship simply extends a bit outside the map. I don't mind it though.

Honestly though, I don't mind any of that right now. The stats might need a bit of adjustment at least in terms of Kensai. Other than that, thank you Barocca. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I like it alot.

Marshal Murat
11-04-2003, 03:35
Also, to go for Historical ACcuracy, the MORI were know for thier ships.

neogerry
11-04-2003, 04:21
I can´t seem to find this mod anywhere http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
any help?

Jacque Schtrapp
11-04-2003, 05:47
Somebody clue the rest of us in as to where the files are. Thx

barocca
11-04-2003, 07:12
oops
i was afraid some clever people would find it before Tosa got around to moving it to the download area.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
(there is a way to get to that link too, go look at the upload pages and you can browse all the latest uploads by category)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

WINZIP ONLY can extract the files from the archive set, well here at least, it is possible that latest version winrar can do so, but if you have any hiccups go back to WINZIP, one component is filename.ZIP
the others are filename.z01 to filename.z17
usr WINZIP to open the filename.zip, and WINZIP will automatically open the rest. you wont have to manually touch those ones.


Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Nov. 04 2003,13:27)]Just so everyone knows, Winrar version 3.2 will open the files, but older versions won't. Either get the trial version from Winrar's website or use winzip like Barocca said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
thanks Aelwyn and Pat for the info

the files are 2MB because of host limits on upload files AND because my ISP is unreliable when transferring large files, or large numbers of files.
Tosa will (as soon as he can) be recompiling into larger files for 3D, and i am hoping he has room on Mizu server too
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

This is a beta version, and i love comments and opinions
:-)

Mori WILL be getting the shipping bonus, Eusugi start with 4 ships and a ship builder and they do tend to go overboard,
that WAS a bad pun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

all the building bonuses will be adjusted for all the clans, when i handed them out i only had the original clans in the game, so i will be giving some of them to other clans,

ALSO i made a mistake, the Heavy Cavalry in Hida province cannot be built there - i forgot to check that one,
Heavy Cav need an armoury and Hida has no iron,
i WILL be changing the building requirement for Heavy Cavalry, (most likely to palace_2 and horse_dojo_2),
quite possibly the Naginata and Naginata Cavalry province bonuses suffer from the same problem, so i'll look into changing that as well.

Kensai can be shot, a sam archer unit usually manages to kill any kensai sent against it.
(and yes, i use the merc kensai),
i think Kensai upkeep cost needs tweaking, we have their armour as low as the game allows, so they are extremely vulnerable to missiles.

ALSO Kensai die quickly at the hands of No-Dachi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Play on EXPERT :-)

the map,
that is the UMPTEENTH map i made,
(i kept tweaking things until i was happy)
and each one requires hours and hours to convert the LMM output to VI compatible script files (ports, castles, neighbours, border attribs etc etc)
i know the sea regions extend a fraction beyond the parchment, i dont think i want to make another map at this time, can you live with the sea regions overlapping onto the wood base a little bit?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

prices and farm incomes will probably be settled down a little bit, costs are high, and income is high,
we were testing the 100 koku bug - where a missile unit that costs 100 koku/florin actually ADDS money to the bank if you upgrade it when playing a custom battle or playing online.

i am adjusting some of the building review panel pics, the bif bug crept into some of them (black dots where they should be none), so i am checking them carefully and making new ones, same pics - just with the black dot bif bug problem corrected. PLEASE feel free to comment on those, just in case i miss one
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

other than that FIRE AWAY, the Beta is online for bug testing and user input, so please comment on anything you like or don't like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
B.

barocca
11-04-2003, 07:16
no doubt i will think of more things later

be on the lookout for generals named
"Spare Hero Slot"
those are HEROES to whom i have not yet given a name,
if you want to suggest a name go here
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=11244
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Alrowan
11-04-2003, 07:35
kensai can get shot? damn, and i thought thier skill with swords meant they could stop an arrow

Marshal Murat
11-04-2003, 12:46
Well you know what, I somehow got my 10th file to become a wordpad, so that doesn't wotk because when I need to get the file it won't show up. Help?

NagatsukaShumi
11-04-2003, 13:06
I am still unable to remove a SINGLE file from the STW_MOD_18_PEICES.zip file, it keeps having an error and I have re-downloaded it numerous times, also, all the other files don't even open, help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif.

TosaInu
11-04-2003, 13:28
Konnichiwa,

Sorry for being quite slow. It's uploaded to 3D now:
http://www.3ddownloads.com/strateg....Mod.zip (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/MTW/Stats/Beta_STW_Mod.zip)

Uploading to other server, will add pages and other files later today.

Sir Moody
11-04-2003, 13:52
Quote[/b] ]kensai can get shot? damn, and i thought thier skill with swords meant they could stop an arrow

stoping one no problem - stopping a whole flight is a totally different thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Alrowan
11-04-2003, 13:58
just a few things i hope get fixed post beta:

- rebel provs have no units
- florins need to be replaced
- events need to be changed (i got a catholic uprising in a prov i caused to rebel)
- castle sieges... still MTW style http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif (will be hard to fix)
- Arid Provs... i prefer lush or temparate when thinking japan
- ashiguru x-bowmen, i faced a unit of these that didnt seem to shoot, they showed the reloading, firing, aiming mesages, but there was no animation apart from them standing there, also, they didnt kill a man of my units, but i will have to look at this a little more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

thats it for now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

TosaInu
11-04-2003, 14:18
Now available at member files.

ShadesPanther
11-04-2003, 17:53
Quote[/b] ]kensai can get shot
I've seen American Ninja and he can stop arrows with his hands http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

gonna try soon

Sir Moody
11-04-2003, 18:25
panther get him to demonstrate 1 - then 2 - then half a dozen - then 50 or so - http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif if hes stoped them all hes neo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Aelwyn
11-04-2003, 18:27
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 04 2003,00:12)]Kensai can be shot, a sam archer unit usually manages to kill any kensai sent against it.
(and yes, i use the merc kensai),
i think Kensai upkeep cost needs tweaking, we have their armour as low as the game allows, so they are extremely vulnerable to missiles.

ALSO Kensai die quickly at the hands of No-Dachi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Maybe it was just the tactics I was using that made them seem more powerful. But, they were being shot at, and didn't die from an arrow. (I know because I just sat the Kensai there letting him get shot at, since I remember in STW they were almost impossible to kill with missles in SP)

But other than that 1 occasion I always rushed with them so they could kill as many people as possible early on and then I'd rush in with merc Yari Cavs and finish off everyone else http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I was also wondering about the Catholic thing. It seems almost anything else would fit a bit more up until the time where Japanese actually did start converting to Christianity.

It was funny to see a percentage of Japanese were Jewish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

neogerry
11-04-2003, 18:35
Thanks alot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
IT´s an excellent mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Pat
11-04-2003, 18:46
Early comments on SMAP:

Bugs/peculiar stuff

- when playing the game with "small unit size" (the game goes CTD, somewhere between year 1471-75)
- the Samurai archer unit seems "unsynchronized" (aiming - shooting thing) I guess you took the "ActionPage" stuff directly from STW?


Propositions (just what I think...)

- Kensais should be more expensive (at least the great ones e.g Miyamoto Musashi and especially his rival Sasaki Kojiro who was very greedy according to the book "Musashi" by Eiji Yoshikawa - a very good book I know it's not possible to separate "the exceptionally good from just the good ones" within MTW but good swordsmen (e.g swordsaints) were generally well paid. - just a thought (perhaps not even fun to realize 'cause it's only take some years (1?) to produce them...)

Thanks barocca, for a very good Mod (especially since I couldn't figure out/implement the STW map into MTW... so, I will stick with your mod instead (which is far better than my STW-mod would ever be )

Pat

barocca
11-04-2003, 19:58
samura archers, and most likely cavalry archers, are definately unsynchronised,
shogun and medieval use the frame sequnence differently,
in shogun frame 6 is the end of the shooting sequence,
in medieval frame 12 is the end of the shooting sequence,

BUT walk run fight commands use their "sequence" correctly,

so to fix that i am going to have to rebuild the bif file

the gunners ARE synchronised because i had to rebuild the bif file to include reload actions (kneeling reload is BROKEN for ALL units, medieval and shogun units all fail to "use" the kneeling_reload action command, a hardcode error - cant fix those)

so i have yet to rebuild the archer bif,
i think i also have to rebuild the cav archer bif, (not sure yet if their is room to do so),
the yari infantry bif file WILL change to add a new unit type,
AND a NEW bif file containg three new units is under construction
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
11-04-2003, 20:07
Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ Nov. 04 2003,06:06)]I am still unable to remove a SINGLE file from the STW_MOD_18_PEICES.zip file, it keeps having an error and I have re-downloaded it numerous times, also, all the other files don't even open, help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif.
NagatsukaShumi
BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces.zip is PRECISELY 553,511 bytes
BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces.z01 to z17 is PRECISELY 2,097,152 bytes,

CHECK the file sizes, if any pieces do not match these byte sizes they will need to be redownloaded,
if the byte sizes are correct continue reading...


WINZIP will open the file,
and ONLY BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces.zip can be opened.

suggest Open WINZIP then find the file
BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces.zip using the WINZIP interface,
then choose extract to...,
WINZIP will automatically open the rest of the files

YOU CANNOT EXTRACT SINGLE FILES (maybe you can, but it gives errors here, my winzip is very old version)
BEST to extract the whole lot at once,

many other archive programs will "appear" to be using the WINZIP shell interface,
the shell interface is when you right click a file and a menu of actions available pops up,
winzip adds some commands to the shell interface, some other archive programs "steal" the winzip shortcuts. and are opening the file themselves.


Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Nov. 04 2003,13:27)]Just so everyone knows, Winrar version 3.2 will open the files, but older versions won't. Either get the trial version from Winrar's website or use winzip like Barocca said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
thanks Aelwyn and Pat for the info http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barocca
11-04-2003, 20:10
Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]just a few things i hope get fixed post beta:

- rebel provs have no unitsall part of the balancing issue, if i give rebels anything at the moment they over run the playable factions very quickly,
more clans to come, which will reduce rebel income, then i'll build some rebel troops and buildings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]- florins need to be replacedthats a hard one, if i change florins for the mod, then you will have koku for the medieval and viking campaigns too, maybe the mood will take me to write a replace and overwrite mod, which will KILL the viking and medieval campaigns - but that wont be for some time...


Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]- events need to be changed (i got a catholic uprising in a prov i caused to rebel)same thing here, if i change it for the shougn mod, then it also changes for medieval and vikings, this mod is an expansion style mod, meaning you can still play medieval and vikings from the same installation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]- castle sieges... still MTW style http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif (will be hard to fix)not entirely certain what you mean here? event pics?


Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]- Arid Provs... i prefer lush or temparate when thinking japanwhat i have doen is adjusted terrain according to income, a province which generates very little income is arid, a medium income province is temperate and a rich province is lush,
keep playing, sooner or later you'll wander into the ROCKY DESERT province too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I wanted to give the game as many different possibilities as possible, thus as you march across japan the battlefields you are fighting on will change
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Nov. 04 2003,06:58)]- ashiguru x-bowmen, i faced a unit of these that didnt seem to shoot, they showed the reloading, firing, aiming mesages, but there was no animation apart from them standing there, also, they didnt kill a man of my units, but i will have to look at this a little more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gifthe unit in the beta version was NEVER actually used by shogun or warlords, it is their beta version, it DID ship with the game, but was never actually active, the ashi-xbowmen bif file's that were active are currently being rebuilt, so i used the beta_x-bowmen for this beta release,

barocca
11-04-2003, 20:27
just a comment about religion,
i used the current religious system because this is an expansion mod and i dont have access to the hardcode/source

if i change religion for the japanese it also changes for the medieval and viking campaigns,
while having Buddhist Vikings may be fun for the Viking Invasion campaign, it's better that my mod be historically innaccurate than the pope authorise crusades against Buddhist England in a medieval campaign
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

B.

Aelwyn
11-04-2003, 20:27
Just so everyone knows, Winrar version 3.2 will open the files, but older versions won't. Either get the trial version from Winrar's website or use winzip like Barocca said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

barocca
11-04-2003, 20:34
IMPORTANT NOTE

if you downloaded the beta mod from here
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/

you NEED to get this file
STW_9_unit_prod.zip
from the same directory

it includes an adjustment to HEAVY CAV to allow them to be built in provinces without iron,

if you download the mod from 3D or MIZU/member server that unit prod file is already included

B.

Aelwyn
11-04-2003, 20:37
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 04 2003,13:10)]just a comment about religion,
i used the current religious system because this is an expansion mod and i dont have access to the hardcode/source

if i change religion for the japanese it also changes for the medieval and viking campaigns,
while having Buddhist Vikings may be fun for the Viking Invasion campaign, it's better that my mod be historically innaccurate than the pope authorise crusades against Buddhist England in a medieval campaign
IIRC, isn't it possible to change their religion by changing the factions type to something like "Barbarian_Raider" or "Orthodox_Trader" or something like that? Or does that just set their behavior? I really dunno, so thats why I ask. I thought it was possible to add maybe an Orthodox faction or something like that.

barocca
11-04-2003, 20:57
i think i also have to declare their religion,
orthodox is what i intend to make the rebel faction into, and their provinces,
thus it will be a bit harder to hold onto rebel provinces
:-)

a few hints and tips,
build tranquil gardens everywhere - they improve happiness,

build temples too, they improve happiness and faith propogation,

build watchtowers, they attract mercs and you hire mercs from them, and they improve happiness

built castles, the bigger the castle, the more impressive it looks to ronin samurai who want a job - ie castles attract mercenaries too

build farmlands whenever you can, at the moment they give you lots of cash,

mines not so good at generating cash, but every penny helps - have to tweak mining income

trade, plenty of trade around, but again i need to tweak trading income,

guns appears in high era, 1543
you start with x-bowmen, these are good in large numbers but highly vulnerable to cavalry
portugese teppo (arqubus) require trading post and gun dojo one,
japanese teppo (musket) require gun dojo level two and armoury level two,
ashigaru teppo are mercenaries, and can be hired at watchtowers or border forts.

ALL guns are using medieval projectiles, thus they are a bit weaker than in shogun, but that just makes the battles more fun in my opinion, no more "win the gun fight, win the battle", now it comes down to tactics and cohesion.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Alrowan
11-04-2003, 22:45
with the castle seiges, the are just that, castles, medieval style. I was hopin you edited some of the models http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ah well, one can only hope

Marshal Murat
11-04-2003, 23:05
Hey, I recall in the era text files in startpos in campmap, you could state weather a province could be arid, or whatever, because I mean in MTW you would never see a arid provence in Sweden http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Also, if we do get this mod, then we probably wouldn't need the other campaigns, for we would be having to much fun with SMTW.

Jacque Schtrapp
11-05-2003, 02:42
Wow Barocca, even better than promised. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I only noticed a couple of things.

Playing as Takeda on Expert I was attacked in Musashi by the Imagawa from Kai. Strangest map I have ever seen. It should have been a river map and instead I got a nearly flat map with holes, for lack of a better word, all over the place. No trees, nothing but grass.

The castles in Suruga and Totomi are so close they appear to be touching from the 2nd level castle on. I know you don't want to cover any of the artwork on the map, but I thought I'd mention it in case there is a way to rotate the castles or something. EDIT: Only seems to happen when both provincs have an Impressive Wooden Castle. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I have free time on most days if you need help with your research. Just tell me what it is you are looking for and what type of information you want about it. I have high speed internet access at both home and work. The nature of my job allows me plenty of free time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I am very impressed.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

barocca
11-05-2003, 06:15
maps

castles - i have converted some shogun models to medieval format, some cant be done,
i am going to have to look at reskinning some medieval models to resemble shogun ones,

terrain types in general - not sure what happened to the river map above, i've not seen that here,
i will look into it,

as for arid/temperate/lush,
where i live is temperate, if i drive 80 km's west it becomes lush, 80 k's beyond that it gets arid, and another 80 k's and i am on the edge of desert...

personally i like the variety of terrain types in the mod.
all lush/temperate and you would find yourselves fighting on the same maps all over japan.

Marshal Murat
11-05-2003, 12:53
Man, I got like ten kensai, and attacked an enemy which had archers, and you know what, they sent all units onto the bridge, killed them all. Also, I got a kensai that had ten valor

barocca
11-05-2003, 13:21
would making the Kensai cost 25 in upkeep seem ok?
thats 50 for a merc unit
B.

TosaInu
11-05-2003, 13:34
What Jacque san mentions is the lack of a rolling map Barocca. The game generates a random map then.

Dr_No
11-05-2003, 16:04
wow- on first glance this rocks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

only had a quick wizz so far but plan a proper game tonight when i might have something more constrcutive to say

good work mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Aelwyn
11-05-2003, 17:17
I don't know what the specific support cost should be for Kensai. 25 seems pretty good, but even then, it would almost always be better to hire them instead of building them. As it is right now, a merc Kensai would have to live 601 years to be more expensive than a built one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif 1200 to build and 1 for support, compared to 600 to hire and 2 to support.

Jacque Schtrapp
11-05-2003, 18:32
Emissaries draw their names from the same group that includes heirs. I started the game with a three valor emissary named Takeda Nobushige and a 2 year old son also named Takeda Nobushige.

Yari Ashigaru have -5 morale in every battle even when I had 6 command Akechi Mimesaka leading them. They break and run almost immediately.

Kensai definitely need higher upkeep. They are most definitely not invincible. Hojo attacked me with an army containing four of them. I had three units of Samurai Archers on a hill and none of the Kensai made it to the top. They seem to rule everything until about valor four then they start dropping like flies.

The rebel provinces do an excellent job of building units and structures. I can see why they begin the game with no units. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I had one heir pop out with the Hedonist vice, other than that none of my generals or heirs have developed any vices worse than greed (+1 dread -2 loyalty).

The Date clan is a bribing machine. I hate them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I am really impressed with how everything has meshed so seamlessly barocca. Great work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Good idea Aelwyn. Kensai do kind of fit the wandering master swordsmen role. Since they are so readily available as mercs, it wouldn't bother me to lose the ability to build them.

Marshal Murat
11-06-2003, 01:56
Yea, make them like Amulvagars or whatever. Also, could you make just "plain samurai" with good armor, attack, and so forth, but not so powerful. To add the effect, you know.

Marshal Murat
11-06-2003, 01:58
Yea, make them like Amulvagars or whatever. Also, could you make just "plain samurai" with good armor, attack, and so forth, but not so powerful. To add the effect, you know. Also, we could use a few more ships, like heavy warships and armored gunships. Also, just a side note, could we have a Korean campaign, got a history fair project on it, just wanted to get some JPEGS and TGAs.

Marshal Murat
11-06-2003, 01:58
Yea, make them like Amulvagars or whatever. Also, could you make just "plain samurai" with good armor, attack, and so forth, but not so powerful. To add the effect, you know. Also, we could use a few more ships, like heavy warships and armored gunships. Also, just a side note, could we have a Korean campaign, got a history fair project on it, just wanted to get some JPEGS and TGAs.

Marshal Murat
11-06-2003, 01:58
Yea, make them like Amulvagars or whatever. Also, could you make just "plain samurai" with good armor, attack, and so forth, but not so powerful. To add the effect, you know. Also, we could use a few more ships, like heavy warships and armored gunships. Also, just a side note, could we have a Korean campaign, got a history fair project on it, just wanted to get some JPEGS and TGAs.

Marshal Murat
11-06-2003, 03:29
Just wanted to reinforce the idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
anyway sorry.

barocca
11-06-2003, 04:48
The Beta STW mod is online at Mizu server

click the files link at the top of the forum page, then look in Stats

the Beta STW mod is also online at 3D
3D download link > OPEN THIS PAGE < ckick this link (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/MTW/Stats/Beta_STW_Mod.zip)

if you downloaded the mod from the beta upload directory you NEED the new unit prod file from the same directory,
Mizu Server and 3D already have this new unit prod file.

Download the file (or files) extract the directory structure in the zip into a spare directory,

make a clean fresh install of MTW, and Viking Expansion AND patch 2.01,

then copy the entire extracted directory structure into your clean copy and accept all overwrites - there aren&#39;t that many, mostly just the loc files get changed.

any problems READ the read me file.

NOW
this IS definately a beta, i expect and hope you lot will find some bugs - i am sure there are a couple, nothing terminal, just glitches,

FOR EXAMPLE
some scrolling maps dont work - i need to know which ones,
which province was attacked AND which province the attack was launched rfom

(READ THE README)

READ ME FILE (this file is included in the download)
November 2 2003

Hi,
this is the read me for the BETA release of the Shogun Mod for MTW-VI patched to 2.01

There is a new campaign map, a new campaign, some units you will be familiar with,
and some you won&#39;t, we ran out of custom unit folders, so ninjas use the samurai archer folder.

Many name changes to units and buildings, but you&#39;ll get the hang of it,

INSTALL
extract this file set to a spare directory,

make sure you have a CLEAN copy of MTW Viking Invasions, WITH the patch 2.01
no other mods, no campaigns in progress,

then simply drag and drop this folder structure into your medieval directory,
accept all over writes,

when you get to the campaign selection screen scroll down the list,
the Shogun campaign will be the last one in that list.

KNOWN ISSUES

Speckling - the way Shogun and Medieval handles faction colours on units is different,
expect to see some "speckling" on the units uniforms, flags and weapons, short of recolouring all the animations there is no real way to fix that.

Daimyo&#39;s and heirs - these are not all sorted yet,
they will be done for the full release, you have a small sample set for now,
their stats are all wrong, i have yet to complete research on them.

Generals and Heroes, not finished,
you will see some generals appear with the name "spare hero slot",
thats is intended, they will be filled for the release.

Mongols - not here yet,
time got away from me and i did not have time to get all the artwork done,

Scrolling maps on campaign pre battle screens - these dont all work yet,
i still have to make/duplicate some, it appears we ran into a few terrain mixes the dev&#39;s never thought of,
STILL i do not know all of them
if you see any please make a note of it and let me know WHICH province the attack was launched FROM and WHICH province was being attacked.

Province income - not finalised yet - BUILD FARMS
Trade income - not finalised yet

Units - not finalised yet, there are more to come - :-)

Faction and province bonuses, not finished, doen very roughly for this release

Clans - not all there yet, plenty more to come,

Starting positions and Units - not finalised,

no doubt as soon as i upload this i will think of more,

visit us down in the Dungeon (Alchemist Lab) at The Org

http://www.totalwar.org
Barocca
2 november 2003

MizuKokami
11-06-2003, 07:42
*this is me hopeing that yari samurai and yari cav have a bonus attcking cav*

Fearless
11-06-2003, 10:19
A brilliant mod Barocca well done One question and I have noticed this with other mods. Why are there no corpses on field of battle. That is my only disappointment as it takes away the realism of battle. Is this a problem you modders can&#39;t solve?

Old Bald Guy
11-06-2003, 14:43
>The Beta STW mod is online at Mizu server click the files link at the top of the forum page, then look in Stats
the Beta STW mod is also online at 3D 3D download link > OPEN THIS PAGE < ckick this link if you downloaded the mod from the beta upload directory you NEED the new unit prod file from the same directory,
Mizu Server and 3D already have this new unit prod file.

Download the file (or files) extract the directory structure in the zip into a spare directory,
[B]

Help??? I downloaded the files from the upload directory. When I click on the link, there is the 35mb dl, no FILES at the top of the page. Clicking on Previous, I see all the files, but nothing that leads me to believe "this is the file I need."

I know I&#39;m not all that bright, so I could use a little more direction here. What file aside from the 18 zip files do I need and where can I get it?

Thanks,

OBG

barocca
11-06-2003, 19:51
at the top of this page, is a list of links,
your control panl, chat, files, log out, etc.

from the files link a blue popup window should appear,
that is Mizu Server,
click the stats link under the MTW heading on that page
Beta_STW_Mod (VI) is the only file you&#39;ll need

if you go to the link provided for 3D there is only one file,
thats all you need,

if you downloaded from the beta upload directory you need to go and get
STW_9_unit_prod.zip
as well as the 18 files BETA_STW_MOD_SPLIT_18 pieces

B.

Wellington
11-07-2003, 13:46
Quote[/b] (Fearless @ Nov. 06 2003,03:19)]A brilliant mod Barocca well done One question and I have noticed this with other mods. Why are there no corpses on field of battle. That is my only disappointment as it takes away the realism of battle. Is this a problem you modders can&#39;t solve?
The deadpage stuff is really quite complicated to generate/amend - principally due to the lack of space in the LBM. Even CA had problems in this area with the VI release.

Thee are ways around this however, such as making the images smaller, doubling up dead images for different generic units, using only 2 camera angles etc .

We do have a utility to generate such deadpage stuff (written for the ME:TW team project) called BDP that both generates the deadpage graphic LBM and computes all the corrdinates. As yet, however, it is&#39;nt documented so I can&#39;t release it. Maybe in a couple of months - unless someone wants it now, documentation less, in order to play about with it.

barocca
11-07-2003, 15:37
deadpage

i know there were some 4v4&#39;s the other night by people using the mod, i am waiting for a definiative reply on lag,

the deadpage file is 30k approximate,
each man requires that file to be opened to display his corpse on the filed,

it has always seemed to me that as long as all players were connected the game got laggier and laggier until people starting exiting after they have lost all men,
i am thinking not having dead displayed may reduce lag,

requires serious testing to confirm.
B.

Lancer6969
11-07-2003, 15:51
Quote[/b] ]Yea, make them like Amulvagars or whatever. Also, could you make just "plain samurai" with good armor, attack, and so forth, but not so powerful. To add the effect, you know. Also, we could use a few more ships, like heavy warships and armored gunships. Also, just a side note, could we have a Korean campaign, got a history fair project on it, just wanted to get some JPEGS and TGAs.



Wow, any other forum and he would have gotten flamed for sure, explains how great this one is. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I love the mod, cant wait to try it out, sounds so cool. I have always wanted to play a shogunMedieval mod.

Lancer

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Old Bald Guy
11-07-2003, 17:24
Barocca, I just dl&#39;d the whole thing, installed, and WOW, it&#39;s terrific Love it, madly, although it&#39;s going to be awhile before I learn all the troop-types and buildings. I didn&#39;t play Shogun TW, so I&#39;m starting from way back.

Well done, mate. Can&#39;t wait to see it progress.

From all of us, thanks.

Jacque Schtrapp
11-08-2003, 21:57
Kii has a bonus for Naginata but no iron = no Naginata

Mikawa Port appears on the Totomi Sea but when it builds ships they appear in the Ise Bay

Uesugi builds ships. Period. Full stacks of Useugi ships all over.

Hojo has stayed in their home provinces in both games so far.

There seems to be an emphasis on spending for buildings instead of troops. I find it strange because in the first game I was invaded and each neighbor had sizeable garrisons. In the second game no one is doing anything besides teching up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif No wars for the first sixty turns of the second game.

Rebel ships are an insane nuisance. They produce them so fast I can barely keep up. Rebels built troops in the first game and ships in the second game, no cross over.

1st game Takeda Expert

2nd game Oda Hard

I&#39;ve had two castle assaults neither of which had an actual castle. I&#39;m guessing no castles placed yet. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Enjoying it so far. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

dessa14
11-09-2003, 03:15
yeah i think uesugi builds far too many ships instead of building troops and taking out the rebels or the date clan (remember ships are great, if you have troops to move) otomo and date clans don&#39;t get heirs so they die out in the first generation. very few trade goods on the right side of the map (plenty on kyshu) other than that the strategy images need a bit of polish. rebels given armies clans given more provinces. that is all i can say on the negative bug side otherwise the game is great for an expansion mod keep on going. if you need any help send the file to me and ill see what i can do.
thanks dessa

Skomatth
11-09-2003, 05:34
Good job so far (stats need some changing of course).

2 questions....

1. How did u arrive at unit cost?

2. What florin level would u recommend for custom/mp?

barocca
11-09-2003, 06:50
:-)

keep comments and bugs coming

a little update pack will be online soon (I&#39;ll yell when it is), it adds 2 more clans (i want to add 2 more today),
fixes the date and otomo heirs bug thingy, fixes the naginata bug thingy, adjust some of the flags...

two castle assaults neither of which had an actual castle
do you remmeber which provinces failed to have maps for castle assaults??

...the strategy images need a bit of polish...
??? the "army stacks&#39;?? or something else?

otomo and date clans don&#39;t get heirs so they die out in the first generation.
fixed :-) - gave them MALE heirs - all they were getting was princesses... DOH

naginata bonus, but no iron
fixed, naginata no longer need iron to build, same with nag cav, still they need some decent buildings before you can build them, but they can be anywhere now.

unit and building costs,
unit costs were/are a temporary fix to overcome a bug in the sliding scale + missile unit discount forumla,
they will most likely be toned down a little,

i think 10k to 15K is a good florin limit for online games,
using the current unit structure.

rebels do one of two things,
tech up early, or build tons of troops and try to crush the clans erly,
if the rebels tech up early then they build units later, and high tech rebels can be a right pain to bring under control...
why do they do that? - i have absolutely no idea

WILL yell out when i have finished the update and let you all know where i stashed it...

Jacque Schtrapp
11-09-2003, 07:28
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 08 2003,23:50)]do you remmeber which provinces failed to have maps for castle assaults??
The only one I remember for certain was Totomi. I incorrectly assumed that castles must be coming later, sorry.

When you set your ships to attack enemy ships you get a sailing icon (ship with sails puffed out) instead of the little black cloud that usually accompanies a pending naval engagement. Minor, but it can be confusing when you are moving high volumes of ships to counter the rebel fleet hordes.

Are you planning on changing the tech requirements? Like making the Tranquil Garden a pre-requisite for the Buddhist Temple? As it stands now I can make both NoDachi and Monks even when I don&#39;t build the Yari dojo. I know there is no famous swordsmen event in MTW so maybe NoDachi should require second level Yari dojo? Is there going to be more than one level of shipbuilder or more than one type of ship?

What year does the campaign end?

Playing the Otomo on Expert and since Mori is my closest neighber we&#39;ve fought a half dozen battles already. These two factions colors are really difficult to tell apart on the battlefield. It might not bother anyone else, but I am constantly clicking the wrong unit which isn&#39;t usually good.

Lord Spare Hero Slot is currently my best general. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Skomatth
11-09-2003, 08:00
Will you be adjusting speed of units (seems way too fast right now e.g. no dachi going 18 mph, yeah right)and no dachi killing cav?

dessa14
11-09-2003, 09:32
Quote[/b] ]...the strategy images need a bit of polish...
??? the "army stacks&#39;?? or something else?
i mean like the buildings on the bottom of the screen when you click on a province it&#39;s no biggie but they look a bit blurry especially 20% farmland ill see what i can do to help.
thanks dessa

barocca
11-10-2003, 00:33
ships
there is a little flag that appears at the bow of a ship when it is attacking,
i may make that a bit more obvious if i can.


tech tree
make sword dojo and temple require yari dojo?
reasonable idea, will have a fiddle with that
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Otomi and Mori
this is odd, on my machine one is orange the other is red, but you are not the only person to comment on that,
will see if i can make the orange a little more "yellow"...

campaign end
1877 (i think)

Lord Spare Hero Slot
well...i need more heroes
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
there is a topic in the sword dojo here at the org where you can submit heroes, on page three of that thread is a link to a japanese / english dictionary :-)

units need tweaking,
the current mix was designed and tested BEFORE the patch,
i think the patch changed some other factors in the combat calculations - am seeing odd things here too...
No-Dachi were very light armoured, i actually like having them very fast but maybe they are a fraction too quick,
also i think cav may need speed increase...

review panel pics blurry??
what screen resolution are you running?
they were built on a resolution of 800x600 and i am currently 1024x768...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
thanks, keep the input coming
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
B.

dessa14
11-10-2003, 00:40
at first i had my res at 800 by 600 but then i put it up to 1024 by ???? thanks dessa

Marshal Murat
11-10-2003, 03:57
Just wondering when the patch is to come out, and with the korea campaign could you please add that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Fearless
11-10-2003, 10:41
Thanks Wellington for explaining why the dead are missing from the field of combat. Hopefully in the not too distant future you ace modders would have cracked this aggravating problem Keep up the good work we all appreciate the hard work you guys put into Totalwar, eases the pain of the wait for RTW.

barocca
11-12-2003, 00:00
Korea campaign - that would require a new map, a complete new map,
maybe something to do much later
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Aelwyn
11-12-2003, 17:37
I don&#39;t remember the province names, but one with a river (Musashi or something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ) anyways, is there a way to change it so the map depends on where you attack from, like in MTW? I held almost all the provinces around this one, and no matter where I attacked from, I was going to fight a bridge battle. I know that would happen from one side, but it shouldn&#39;t from above or the other side.

Tatsumaru Rokkaku
11-14-2003, 20:53
3DDownloads sux...is there any other place i can download this mod? im dying to try it...

Antalis::
11-14-2003, 21:04
Zitat[/b] (Tatsumaru Rokkaku @ Nov. 14 2003,13:53)]3DDownloads sux...is there any other place i can download this mod? im dying to try it...
You could also download it at the "Files"-section (ubove at your forum board. Near your controllpanel).


Or download it right here with this link:

Shogun Mod (http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/MTW/Stats/Beta_STW_Mod.zip)

Tatsumaru Rokkaku
11-14-2003, 21:25
awesome..thanks for a lot for your help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

barocca
11-16-2003, 09:41
river battles

Sun Tzu tells us to seize every advantage,
thus i will always defend my province from the best defensible position,
behind the river.

Thus if their is a river then the defender will always setup behind it.


I have taken bridge maps where i was the attacker with nothing more than ashi&#39;s against yari sams, yari archers and naginata.

You need x-bows and plenty of ashigaru (more is better),

Line you x-bows up either side of the bridge, 3 ranks each unit and 2 units deep,
send a unit of ashi across at a walk,
as soon as the enemy move to intercept (when you are about 2/3 of the way across) HALT,
when the enemy unit gets close to their end of the bridge order your ashi to march back to your side, the enemy unit will persue if they are close enough,
have your x-bows set on HOLD FORMATION and FIRE AT WILL - they will shoot the daylights out of the enmy unit,
to "pin" the uit in place, once all your x-bows are firing charge your ashi unit back at them AND move another ashi unit to the ramp on your side of the bridge,
set THAT ashi unit on HOLD FORMATION.

The idea is your ashi are pincushions for the enemy archers - archers will run out of arrows before you run out of crossbow bolts,
and your ashi are "teasers", to get the enemy within range of your x-bows,

Eventually the enemy will pull back when an ashi unit marches across,
this is the time to move your entire force, IN PIECES across the bridge,

send a couple of units of ashi, have them form up at the opposite ramp,
then send 2 xbows across, then 2 more ashi, then 2 more x-bows,
until you have your entire force across,
then advance carefully,
keep ashi units close together,
and let the enemy charge YOU.
Let the x-bows do plenty of damage,
and ashi are expendable, keep the x-bows firing at all times during this phase.

B.

Marshal Murat
11-16-2003, 13:32
River Battles
Also if you have cavalry have them charge across early, they can move faster then the AI units and get across the bridge (assuming your attacking) They form a headwith space to send the rest of your units across.

dessa14
11-17-2003, 00:20
dewa castle lacks a map when assualted
thanks dessa

Gregoshi
11-18-2003, 09:32
Below are some comments from 1pain1Duck in the Entrance Hall:

-----
I&#39;d just like to say some minor unitinbalances......
Basically warrior monks are way too effective vs. yari samurai... they usually kill about 40 before rout of Ys and lose 1 man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
(v0 WM ws. v2 Ys)
Then No-Dachi seems to lose to yari samurai...... with 24 YS left http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
(v1 ND vs. v2 Ys)
And arqs/musks are way too weak......
They even got a WM unit down to 57
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
-----

dclare4
11-19-2003, 07:28
Amazing mod Now if only we could have seasons... but it doesn&#39;t matter too much.

A suggestion/query - would you care to include either as an add on stand-alone or as part of the original faction set, the &#39;clans&#39; from the movie Ran? Of course if it&#39;s supposed to be a strictly historical mod then it&#39;s out of the question but perhaps you&#39;d like to use them in an add on?

ICHIMONJI CLAN
Lord Ichimonji Hidetora - the old warlord and clan leader
Ichimonji Taro - weak, flattering eldest son
Ichimonji Jiro - aggressive but indecisive middle son
Ichimonji Saburo - blunt but loyal youngest son

Lord Ikoma - Hidetora&#39;s right hand man and clan general
Lord Ogura - Taro&#39;s right hand man and clan general
(Both of these conspire with Jiro to make him head of the clan - treacherous but diplomatically skilled/administrators)
Lord Tango - the faithful right hand man of Saburo who does everything in his power to protect his Lord Hidetora.
Lord Kurogane - the valiant but ambitious right hand man of Jiro, the anti-thesis of Tango, loyal to a fault to his lord and deeply suspicious of Lady Kaede&#39;s machinations.
Lord Shirane - another one of Jiro&#39;s generals and an equally ambitious plotter.
Lord Ayabe - the more quietly ambitious of the remaining rival lords he waits for the chance to snatch up Hidetora&#39;s lands when the old man&#39;s sons fall out.
Lord Fujimaki - easy-going personality and congeniality mask his ambition. He marries his daughter to the exiled Saburo and when his son-in-law returns to his lands to find his father Hidetora, he is waiting in the wings.
Lord Tsurumaru - the young son of a rival lord whose daughter Sue was married to Jiro to cement an alliance that Hidetora promptly broke. Their castle was sacked and destroyed and the boy Tsurumaru&#39;s eyes were gouged out to prevent him from taking his revenge.

And it would not be complete without:
Kyoami - the clown/jester and possible emissary who accompanies Hidetora and is loyal to the end, though wittily sarcastic.
Lady Kaede - the red hot and deadly wife of the unambitious Taro she is the daughter of a powerful lord who was conquered and slain by Hidetora. She saw her family die and is out for revenge which she attains through deadly use of female wiles and charm.
Lady Sue - another politically married daughter of another slaughtered noble house, she has found solace in her faith in the Amida Buddha and forgives Hidetora even the slaughter of her family and the blinding of her younger brother which cuts the hate-filled old man to the heart.

Also would it be possible to add titles to buildings like what happened when you built a Chancellory or Marshal&#39;s Palace? Like you could have a building constructable only at Kyoto called SHOGUNATE and the title would be something like first minister or Shogun&#39;s personal envoy/right hand man. Or constructing Legendary Gun Dojos would let you build a Gunnery Master&#39;s Palace with the attendant title. Or a Legendary Horse Dojo would give you a Cavalry Commander title.

Just my two cents,
Clare

Antalis::
11-19-2003, 09:16
Great mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


How about an addon in a future release with foreign forces invade japan, like european forces?
Since 3 years I´m dreaming of invading japan with portuguise or other european forces.

Vinsitor
11-20-2003, 16:18
Barocca, many players like me have the non english localized version of VI.
So we had to make a second installation of VI for crashes problems (or to change the LOC directory with the english one in the original installation).

I think that also for this fact it&#39;s better for us the other tipe of mod you told about before (not the expansion pack).

I would also tank you and the stuff for this excellent mod and look forward for other cool upgrades http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Vinsitor
11-20-2003, 16:25
Another suggestion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Can you modify yari&#39;s spear plz? This one is too "european"

Jacque Schtrapp
11-20-2003, 17:44
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 20 2003,09:25)]Another suggestion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Can you modify yari&#39;s spear plz? This one is too "european"
Actually, that is what a "yari" spear looked like:

http://nihontobook.homestead.com/files/yari.JPG

Vinsitor
11-20-2003, 17:51
Oh ok then, tnx for the reply http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

barocca
11-20-2003, 18:21
if you extract the mod to an "empty" directory you can see which files in the loc/eng folder i have changed,
changes.txt, DESCRIPTIONS.TXT, Events.txt, names.txt and
startpos.txt

all my changes to those files (as far as i can remember) are down near the bottom of the files,
usually under headings like // STW mod additons

hope this makes it easier to translate the changes across to other languages,

once the full version of the mod is released i would be most happy for people to translate them into other languages and upload those alternate language loc files,
we can easily make them available for download too :-)

also their are 2 New files in the loc directory, "smap_faction_specific" and "smap_region_specific", translations of those files for other languages woul be most welcome too,

you could translate them now, just remmber we will need translations of the full version files once i finish the mod as well
:-)
B.

Vinsitor
11-20-2003, 18:41
Ok I&#39;ll be happy to help you in what I can do. I&#39;ll sent you a mail when I&#39;ve finished.

A question, when I can find the Japanese speeches and voices in the Warlord folder? I found only the English one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Jacque Schtrapp
11-20-2003, 18:45
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 20 2003,11:41)]A question, when I can find the Japanese speeches and voices in the Warlord folder? I found only the English one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Hmmm.... I&#39;ll have a look when I get home in six hours or so. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

TosaInu
11-20-2003, 19:12
Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ Nov. 20 2003,10:44)]
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 20 2003,09:25)]Another suggestion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Can you modify yari&#39;s spear plz? This one is too "european"
Actually, that is what a "yari" spear looked like:

http://nihontobook.homestead.com/files/yari.JPG
One of the possible models. There were also ones without or just one &#39;hook&#39;. There&#39;s also quite some variation in the length of the blade.

TosaInu
11-20-2003, 20:18
Konnichiwa,

Uploaded the mod together with several other files to 3D and Files. Have fun.

Vinsitor
11-20-2003, 21:43
I&#39;m working hard for the italian translation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

barocca
11-21-2003, 03:47
my email is barocca_x@hotmail.com
put Shogun in the subject line
:-)

Jacque Schtrapp
11-21-2003, 03:57
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 20 2003,11:41)]A question, when I can find the Japanese speeches and voices in the Warlord folder? I found only the English one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Ok, I&#39;ve got a folder called foices in my main STW folder, it contains (as far as I can tell) all of the Japanese recordings. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jacque Schtrapp
11-21-2003, 05:36
Downloaded from Takiyama twice and both times the file was corrupted. Only comes as 26.9MBs. Downloaded from 3D just fine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

TosaInu
11-21-2003, 10:52
Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ Nov. 20 2003,22:36)]Downloaded from Takiyama twice and both times the file was corrupted. Only comes as 26.9MBs. Downloaded from 3D just fine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The update?

Vinsitor
11-21-2003, 11:44
Tnx Schtrapp http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

4 Tosa Inu

I downloaded the 70MB file and it works http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif maybe it is the update

TosaInu
11-21-2003, 11:59
Konnichiwa,

Thanks for pointing this out Jacque san. The upload was corrupt, my mistake, sorry.

Thanks for confirming that the 70 mb one is ok Vinsitor san.

Vinsitor
11-21-2003, 16:15
Barocca

I&#39;ve sent you the loc translation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Daevorn
11-21-2003, 21:00
very good job barocca http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

about the Vinsitor&#39;s traslation: is it possible to upload the file?

thank you
Daevorn

Vinsitor
11-21-2003, 21:17
Daev sei davide no? Se si te l&#39;ho spedita http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

dclare4
11-22-2003, 01:54
Hi Barocca,

Installed the update but for some reason the program locks up apparently due to the Ashikaga clan (tried clicking on it but the comp froze). I used the 35MB update install and installed over Beta 4. The LBM files were not installed however, as I&#39;m transferring everything through floppies (a lot of transferring&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Thanks,
Clare

barocca
11-22-2003, 06:12
Italian loc files for Beta5 are here

click link to download (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/Italian_Loc_STWmod_Beta5.zip)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jacque Schtrapp
11-22-2003, 06:52
Experiencing a CTD.

Ashikaga - 1549 - End Turn

Heir matures

Princess Marries

Various buildings and one unit under construction

Stripping a title

I tried cancelling each thing and replaying the turn and then I tried cancelling everything and removing every single thing from build queues. There have been various generals dying and V&V changes which are never the same twice and it still CTDs at the end of turn. The only thing I can&#39;t cancel is the heir maturing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Let me know if there are any other details you want. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Vinsitor
11-22-2003, 12:47
I start playing Takeda/expert.

I got a Yumi-Shi, then I could train Archers (reading the building description), but actually I can train only Crossbow-ashi, i can train Archers by the Famous Yumi-Shi.

I got also a Yari Dojo, then I could train both Yari-samurai and Yari-ashi, but actually I can only train Yari-ashi, I can train Yari-samurai by the Famous Yari Dojo.

I built a Hojutsu but can&#39;t train Portugese Teppo.

I test portugese teppo V0 vs archers V0 on steppesinland01: they run away when they were 20 (Archers was still 46 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif)

Vinsitor
11-22-2003, 13:44
Barocca

How can I play Shogun&#39;s musics (and sounds if also this is possible) playing this mod?
Could it be a specific custom folder where to put old shogun&#39;s sounds?

Skomatth
11-23-2003, 04:32
I&#39;m working on my own versions of the stats for MP and maybe single player if you want, is anyone interested?

barocca
11-23-2003, 10:15
Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 22 2003,05:47)]I start playing Takeda/expert.

I got a Yumi-Shi, then I could train Archers (reading the building description), but actually I can train only Crossbow-ashi, i can train Archers by the Famous Yumi-Shi.

I got also a Yari Dojo, then I could train both Yari-samurai and Yari-ashi, but actually I can only train Yari-ashi, I can train Yari-samurai by the Famous Yari Dojo.nothing wrong, that is part of the design,
the current beta is of the advanced campaign, thats why you have new units and new clans, the basic campaign will have the old tech tree,
in medieval you can only train basic units at basic structures, the same rules apply to the Beta advanced campaign, you need to upgrade structures before you can train Samurai, but any nickle and dime Daimyo can train peasants.


Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 22 2003,05:47)]I built a Hojutsu but can&#39;t train Portugese Teppo.the Teppo don&#39;t become available till 1543, but you can build your factories and your workers can begin experimenting earlier.


Quote[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 22 2003,05:47)]I test portugese teppo V0 vs archers V0 on steppesinland01: they run away when they were 20 (Archers was still 46 :()Portugese Teppo are Arquebusiers - they were absolutely lousy in shogun too - the benefit of using cheap teppo was the morale penalties they inflicted - getting shot at AND firearms penalties
In Online games i often used valour zero Arquies right behind the line of battle for moral effects
(bolster my troops with the "support and intercept" bonuses&#39; and inflict the double penalties of "under fire" and "firearms" on the enemy)
there we go - one of my online tactics given away for free

Japanese Teppos are Musketeers,
now if you want gun battles then Napoleonic Total War is for you,
if you want Tactical combat the STW mod will give it to you,

We are using the projectiles file for medieval without alteration, guns are never as powerfull as they were in Warlords, and in my humble opinion the medieval gun stat is closer to the historical truth.
Another benefit is you dont need two copies of medieval to play the stw mod, it is an expansion, the ONLY NUISANCE is the ports,
i have no choice but to overwrite the medieval port strategic piece, so ports in medieval games will use the shogun strategy piece, which will lead to some odd results because the two pieces use different angles for display,
i MAY rewrite the Shogun port bif to use the same angles, but that is a very low priority.
B.

barocca
11-23-2003, 10:41
Quote[/b] (Skomatth @ Nov. 22 2003,21:32)]I&#39;m working on my own versions of the stats for MP and maybe single player if you want, is anyone interested?
the Release version of the STW mod will introduce at least a dozen new units, and most likely more,

Including a Hognaji Faction which will be MOST impressive for Single Player mode, but will have one major drawback to it, they will be an entirely different religion, meaning you&#39;ll get very tough troops, (which wont come cheap),
but holding provinces will be a real pain in the neck until you convert their religion.

Online play will have some restrictions on which of the new units will be available, some of the new units are not at all balanced for online play.

Best to wait for the final beta pack before you get too fanatical about the stats.

The Final Beta Pack will be a QA release, meaning i hope everyone goes very hard core at the final beta so we can nail any little things i may have forgotten,
my hope at this time is to have the final beta pack ready before chrissy and the "Release" in the first week of January.
- but i AM working back to back double shifts monday&#39;s through fridays between now and christmas so progress has slowed a little - i need to re-organise my time scheduling to maximise the effort i can put into the STW mod.
... and spending saturday nights all liquored up and partying is not helping the mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
but it sure does help my morale after a bone crunching week at work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Vinsitor
11-23-2003, 12:29
Citazione[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 23 2003,03:15)]nothing wrong, that is part of the design,
the current beta is of the advanced campaign, thats why you have new units and new clans, the basic campaign will have the old tech tree,
in medieval you can only train basic units at basic structures, the same rules apply to the Beta advanced campaign, you need to upgrade structures before you can train Samurai

Ok that&#39;s right, but maybe the bluildings&#39; description should be modified like this: "The Yumi-Shi (archery/boywer) Dojo trains Samurai in the Way of the Bow. This building allows you to produce CrossbowAshigaru and Archers if upgraded" Or something like this.



Citazione[/b] (Vinsitor @ Nov. 22 2003,05:47)]I test portugese teppo[...]

Sorry it was my fault I tested Jap teppo not Portugese http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
I agree with you but I would like to see muskeets a bit more effective in the battlefield (if you can do this).
I don&#39;t mean to have gunbattles, but a longer range and a littel better accuracy for muskeets would be funnyer IMHO.

PS: Yes a unique installation it&#39;s a good choice I realized it now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Marshal Murat
11-24-2003, 02:23
You know what, you should get a map of Shinano, Takeda, and the close provences, because that area was very infuental in the wars, I mean think about it the four battles of Kawanajima and then the others. That would be very nice.

Also for STW seige battles, the MTW castle models could be replaced by the STW castles. The Japanese castles gates were only wood doors. ALso, the walls could be replaced by the STW walls with the banks and all.

barocca
11-24-2003, 02:42
Models
i made a test model pack for medieval, (it&#39;s in the downloads somewhere)
sadly the shogun gates are not recognised as gates by medieval,
i also cannot aquire the conversion util to make 3dMax models medieval compatible,
i am going to experiment some more with the models,
if the gates dont work i will simply have to reskin some of the VI or medieval models using the Shogun templates,
ALSO i WILL be using the bridge model skin i made, it will replace the darkages bridge skin
(which is simply a clone of the medieval one ayway)
B.
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/wb1.jpg

TosaInu
11-25-2003, 18:04
Konnichiwa,

You could use these bat files to set it up and swap:
The Latin folder is used (IIRC), so you have to swap if you want MTW sound in normal MTW games.

An install of STW WE/MI is required to grab the music files:

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/STW_Mod_Sound.zip

Choice.com is required to run bat in XP and 2000 (?)

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/WinXP-Bat.zip

It has a brief readme, don&#39;t hesitate to ask for more details.

Vinsitor
11-25-2003, 18:31
Lot of tnx TosaInu http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

Puzz3D
11-25-2003, 20:46
Is this mod being made available as an MP only install that can co-exist with the regular vi v2.01 eras and possibly other custom eras such as CBR&#39;s MP mod that fixes the RPS?

Skomatth
11-25-2003, 22:12
So is there gonna be any effort to balance the stats b4 it goes official?

barocca
11-25-2003, 23:30
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 25 2003,13:46)]Is this mod being made available as an MP only install that can co-exist with the regular vi v2.01 eras and possibly other custom eras such as CBR&#39;s MP mod that fixes the RPS?
RPS??

the mod works with the other era&#39;s,

hopefully we will have an MP dedicated "campaign", just need someone who is good at numbers to balance the units,
i am not good at balancing
B.

RPS ??

Puzz3D
11-26-2003, 20:34
RPS = rock, paper, scissors

The numbers get you to the starting point in terms of balancing, and that part is apparently done. The fine tuning comes from battlefield testing which can take months. Is this going to be accomplished via a public beta?

barocca
11-27-2003, 12:18
so far all the feedback i get from this beta relates to
no-dachi move as fast as nag cav - and that is bad,
no-dachi die reallly reallly fast vs yari sams - and that is bad,
monk shred cavalry - good and bad,
muskets too weak - not worried - we use the mtw projectile stat and that is good enough for me i&#39;m afraid.
Heavy cav kill very slowly, - bad
nag cav die very fast, - bad
Naginata infantry are very tough - that is good imho,
etc etc

I think the mtw engine uses a different set of calculations, so while we can get the numbers where they should be in the stat, they dont give the same results when passed through the engine.

Tosa has reduced the cav charge values, perhaps a fraction too low imho.

The beta is online, feel free to disect the numbers,
(PLEASE disect the numbers)
B.

Daevorn
11-27-2003, 15:58
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 25 2003,13:46)]Is this mod being made available as an MP only install that can co-exist with the regular vi v2.01 eras and possibly other custom eras such as CBR&#39;s MP mod that fixes the RPS?
is it possible to download this mod?
i am really intersted in this kind of mods http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

cheers

Puzz3D
11-27-2003, 17:25
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 27 2003,05:18)]I think the mtw engine uses a different set of calculations, so while we can get the numbers where they should be in the stat, they dont give the same results when passed through the engine.
I think the mtw battle calculation is the same as stw. The numbers in this mod don&#39;t match original STW. For example, the run speed of no-dachi is 18 in this mod, but it&#39;s 12 in STW. The run speed of nag cav is 18 in this mod, and it&#39;s 16 in STW (WE/MI v1.1). I don&#39;t buy the argument that the numbers have to be different because the engine is different since I don&#39;t believe the engine is different. Other than the swipe, which has been removed in MTW/VI v2.01, I don&#39;t see anything different about the engine in the tests that I&#39;ve run in STW and MTW/VI. The guns are less effective in MTW/VI which might be good because the engine doesn&#39;t model guns properly, and it can&#39;t be fixed by stat adjustments.

The mod doesn&#39;t have a version number in the filename. It needs a version number so we can tell if we have the latest version.

The battle engine never handled kensai properly because it&#39;s not made for single man units. It can&#39;t handle that unit properly, and it never will. Also, the concept of a unit (ninja) that is invisible on open ground seems a bit far fetched to me. I don&#39;t remember a single player of original STW asking for invisible units.

CBR
11-27-2003, 17:36
My "improved" MTW/VI mod should work fine with the STW mod as it does not change any files.

Of course I had planned to add some new units for my MPwars project but I see Barocca has used all custom unit slots so that cant be used in the same MTW/VI installation...but that MPwars project is far away anyway heh.

Daevorn: The mod is still a beta version. I&#39;m doing another close look at the costs and when Im satisfied with it I will either make it a public beta or find some willing vets to test it and see if they even like it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Hmm I still want better arqs for my Italian Wars era of MPwars..maybe a custom missile stat for both STW and MPwars could be nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

CBR

TosaInu
11-27-2003, 19:03
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 27 2003,10:25)]
Quote[/b] (barocca @ Nov. 27 2003,05:18)]I think the mtw engine uses a different set of calculations, so while we can get the numbers where they should be in the stat, they dont give the same results when passed through the engine.
I think the mtw battle calculation is the same as stw. The numbers in this mod don&#39;t match original STW. For example, the run speed of no-dachi is 18 in this mod, but it&#39;s 12 in STW. The run speed of nag cav is 18 in this mod, and it&#39;s 16 in STW (WE/MI v1.1). I don&#39;t buy the argument that the numbers have to be different because the engine is different since I don&#39;t believe the engine is different. Other than the swipe, which has been removed in MTW/VI v2.01, I don&#39;t see anything different about the engine in the tests that I&#39;ve run in STW and MTW/VI. The guns are less effective in MTW/VI which might be good because the engine doesn&#39;t model guns properly, and it can&#39;t be fixed by stat adjustments.

The mod doesn&#39;t have a version number in the filename. It needs a version number so we can tell if we have the latest version.

The battle engine never handled kensai properly because it&#39;s not made for single man units. It can&#39;t handle that unit properly, and it never will. Also, the concept of a unit (ninja) that is invisible on open ground seems a bit far fetched to me. I don&#39;t remember a single player of original STW asking for invisible units.
18 for NODS? That must be a typo.

barocca
11-27-2003, 20:37
mod number is beta5
version number is beta5,

only been 2 and 1/2 public releases, beta 4 (and a fix) and beta 5
(i made a small error with beta4 and had to release a new prod file set,)

beta 5 is beta 5

still uncertain if the engine is 100% same, maybe something i am doing is skewing results here,
perhaps height advantage works differently?
but something i am doing here gives different results between engines, but i am not a stats tweak person, never have had the patience for proper testing...
B.

Skomatth
11-27-2003, 21:02
I&#39;ve noticed a lot of different stats btw STW/ME 1.02 and the Beta, did you make a mistake transfering them perhaps?

Too numerous to say all but eg.

Naginata def. in mod is 10, in 1.02 is 8.

I just went ahead and copied the 1.03 over so I&#39;m not worrying about it anymore.

Skomatth
11-27-2003, 21:03
btw yuuki is there somewhere i can find the 1.03 unit costs w/o installing stw?

Puzz3D
11-27-2003, 23:56
we/mi v1.03

yari ashigaru 100
yari samurai 200
samurai archers 300
no-dachi 300
naginata 425
warrior monks 550
cavalry archers 450
heavy davalry 600
yari cavalry 475
naginata cavalry 450
arquebusiers 100
muskeets 250
battlefield ninja 600
kensai 600

These costs were not under our control when v103 was made.
The v103 had to be adjusted to those pre-existing costs.
Upgrade cost was 40% for honor, 40% for weapon and 60% for armor. Each upgrade category was calculated independently from the base cost of the unit and the final cost was determined by adding the three upgrade category costs. In this regard, upgrades in we/mi (70% for valor, 33% for weapon and 35% for armor) were not like upgrade costs in mtw/vi which are calculated on the current upgraded cost of the unit. Additionally, the cost of upgrading a ranged unit is calculated after first subtracting the cost of the unit&#39;s ranged weapon which provides an upgrade discount to such units.

barocca
11-28-2003, 05:20
the tweaking of unit capability stats is the last thing on my list of things to do, and i am definately NOT the person qualified to do so,
Puzz has far more experience and if he and Tosa want to get a little group going to balance the stats PLEASE DO SO,
it would be GREATLY appreciated.

Currently the mod weighs in at 70MB download,
the version i have here right now is almost double that,
i have several hundred image files still to create.
unit stats i would happly let someone else build and be in control of deciding,

The unit capability stats should be as close as possible to 1.03,
BUT
the cost structure Puzz has outlined WILL NOT WORK.

The increased costs currently in the mod are simply doubled to overcome a bug in the engine.
if you take your 100 florin arquies into a custom or online battle and upgrade them to the hilt you will see the hardcode bug in action.

ALSO REMEMBER that cavalry charges in MTW engine HAVE BEEN BOOSTED in effectiveness, further changes were made to the code for "pushback effect", and "ignore non elite routing units", and for "friendlies retreating through your lines",
all these factors need to be considered when fiddling with stats.

BY ALL MEANS devise a set of unit costs for an ONLINE PLAYER MODE, just bear in mind EVEN FOR ONLINE missile units absolutely MUST cost more than 100 florin and adjust all other units accordingly,
Further bear in mind the current set of units is not complete. At least FOUR new units remain to be added, and quite possibly we will be adding far more than that, HOPEFULLY including basic artillery.

Please dont muck up the unit costs for SINGLE PLAYER MODE,
as the mod stands i have adjusted province incomes to be as close as possible to STW when taxes are set to NORMAL and difficulty is set to NORMAL
and STILL we see the estern province coming at you approximately 120 years into the game with a HORDE
the current SINGLE PLAYER unit costs are fine as they stand and they overcome HARDCODED ENGINE BUGS regarding upgrading missile units in custom battles while minimising the size of the EASTERN HORDE in campaign play.

Given the way the MTW engine applies province upgrades and allows more refined taxation levels AND allows province governors to BOOST income levels the unit costs for SINGLE PLAYER are fine.

So if you want to tweak the unit stats please make TWO copies,
one for SP with unit costs as they stand now,
and one for ONLINE with modded unit costs AND keep missile units ABOVE 100 florin,
cheers,
B.

Puzz3D
11-28-2003, 17:15
barocca,

I see you already have the version number and date included in the file name of the beta 5. That helps me keep things straight. Thanks.

WE/MI v103 is the starting point. That clears things up. That&#39;s true there are some differences that I wasn&#39;t considering in the engine between we/mi and mtw/vi. The swipe was the big one, and that has been removed in mtw/vi v2.01. You are right that it all has to be tried to see how it works. For the feedback to be of maximum value, I think players have to be testing the same stat so you get a lot of feedback on it. Then you make changes, and we test that for a while. It&#39;s an iterative process to get the stat to converge to a balanced system. It takes time and feedback from people of various playing styles.

LeChuck
11-28-2003, 20:15
great mod, I started a campaign with Oda(expert) and it seems to me that the AI is very peacefull(if I could say so), almost every faction on the map stay in her teritories or conquered a province or 2 in 30-50 years, the rebels and the other factions(especially Uesugi) make to manny ships instead of landtroops and yeah the no dachi are to fast and they die too fast


other thing - manny of the provinces of the rebels are empty that make the game to easy even on expert

I think the mod must be much more agressive, the factions must be more active ...

not to complain, this are my observations, the mod is great and I hope the final release come out soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

barocca
11-28-2003, 23:58
currently the rebel provinces are empty because when i made the first incarnation the rebel faction was very rich and very very aggresive,
i keep trying to determine at what point the clan factions begin expanding by monitoring what triggers their aggression and adjusting their start buildings and units accordingly,
i have noticed that increasing the difficulty level changes what they "want" in their provinces before they get all aggressive,
try switching -ian on, (see command line switches in repository forum) and then hit G in game to "see" all provinces - you may notice quite a few battles,
around 60 years in the factions start getting killed off until only one or two eastern factions remain, and Hyuga is genberally controlled by only one clan at that time, then they will pause and build up before they resume annihilating each other, and both the west faction and east faction then turn on the central factions (oda, ashikaga, ukita and mori)
basically we want the east to remain peacefull as long as possible, they have an economic powerhouse over there and they can quickly swamp the west with large amount of troops,
the AI builds ship looking for invasion opportunites and to prevent themselves being invaded, also trade can be a big big boost to income and they want that boost as well.
but sometimes they do go overboard - am going to lower the build priority of ships a little - have seen huge navies of 2 or 3 full stacks sailing around...

Skomatth
11-29-2003, 01:50
What I did was make 2 unit_prod files. One for custom battles w/ 1.03 stats and costs. One for campaign w/ 1.03 stats and the beta&#39;s cost seemed to work quite well. I&#39;m doing a Satake campaign and im churning out 4+ star generals, is that normal?

barocca
11-29-2003, 05:59
some provinces grant command stars with ttle,
each faction also gets heroes every five to ten years - many of them have command stars,
some buildings also grant titles - some of those have command stars,
then the program also determines wether a new unit will have an extra capable general at random,
add all those together and you should be able to "promote" some generals to nine stars - very handy in a tight situation,

ALSO watch for ANY Yari Ashigaru unit whose commander gets the PRIDE vice (+3 valour) - they are almost fearless,
AND if you are lucky enough to have built that unit where you have a Golden Palace (+4 morale)
AND a Legendary Yari Dojo (+2 Valour) you&#39;ll have an ashigaru unit that can scare the pants of almost any cavalry unit
Then give them to a Nine Star General (+4 valour) as foot sloggers and watch them shred almost anything
(and they&#39;ll cause valour zero monks to get the jitters too)

my current campaign i have THREE units of them, i equipped them with legendary armour and legendary weapons too
Watching IMPETUOS Ashi slaughter No-Dachi, Yari Sams and enemy cav is GREAT FUN - i just keep them away from missile troops...
i also sat them in a high rebel province and let them build some extra valour as well...

Puzz3D
11-29-2003, 15:48
hi barocca,

I&#39;ve looked through the beta 5 stats. The combat stats appear to be based on WE/MI v103, and the unit speeds based on WE/MI v1.01. I think this is good because the slower speeds of v103 would make fatigue more of a problem and it affected the tactics. The no-dachi is definitely incorrect.

name walk/run/charge (STWmod, WE/MI v1.01)

kensai 10/16/16, 10/16/16
ninja 8/18/18, 8/18/18
no-dachi 8/18/18, 7/12/12
monks 7/12/12, 7/12/12
yari ashi 7/12/12, 7/12/12
yari sam 6/10/10, 6/10/10
sam archer 6/10/10, 6/10/10
naginata 4/8/8, 4/8/8
teppo units 7/12/12, 7/12/12

hatamoto 8/22/26, none
heavy cav 8/20/22, 8/20/20
naginata cav 8/18/20, 8/16/20
yari cav 10/24/26, 10/24/24
cav archer 8/24/26, 8/20/20

Just looking at those cav speeds you can see that the yari cav can no longer catch the cav archer. Looks like a mistake on the cav archer. It should be 8/20/22. Also, the naginata cav is slower than the more heavily armored heavy cav. Although this is how it was in WE/MI v1.01, it doesn&#39;t seem right. I would consider making heavy cav 8/18/20 and naginata cav 8/20/22.

If you want the cav archer to be faster than the naginata cav then you could make the cav archer 8/22/24, and possibly bump up yari cav to 10/26/28. While you could leave yari cav at 10/24/26, a running speed difference of 2 won&#39;t really allow the yari cav to catch the cav archer within a reasonable distance if that&#39;s what you want.

Off hand, I would say the hatamoto should have better morale than 4, but I&#39;m not sure about that.

One other thing I noticed in the costs is that monk is priced at 1000, but they cost 550 in v103 and 2x550 = 1100. The monk is getting armor 1 in the STWmod since that&#39;s the lowest number that can be used, but they had armor 0 in WE/MI v103, so the monk is better vs arrows now.

Cav charge has been reduced in the STWmod, but some tests I ran with Orda online and custom offline of heavy cav vs monks indicate that charge kills are about the same between STWmod and WE/MI v103 and the heavy cav is about as effective in beating the monks in both mods. This could be the combat engine differences showing themselves. While heavy cav was as effective vs monks in the STWmod as it was in WE/MI v103, the naginata cav seems to have lost something. I don&#39;t know why.

barocca
11-30-2003, 00:30
as you know i have zero skill when it comes to stats balancing, i suspect the unit speed errors are simply typo&#39;s or misreadings, the cav charge bonuses were adjusted to repair some imbalances.

I trust Your&#39;s and Orda&#39;s tests on such matters far more than my own obsevations,

i like your ides regarding cav speeds and also your suggestion regarding the size of musket unit to improve effectiveness,

I agree regarding making nag cav faster than heavy cav, but not too fast, we dont want to make them irrelevant when it comes to online play. I am uncertain how to "repair" what Naginata Cav have lost - perhaps they need a little boost to charge value or to attack value?

I also agree with improving Hatamoto morale, i would suggest Hatamoto match archer cav for speed
Hatamoto are Leader Cav and in Warlords were meant to be faster than all but yari cav to keep the Daimyo out of trouble. They should also be excellent morale to reflect elite status.

I know monks units are more effective vs missiles now, am uncertain wether or not that needs attention, personally i think they were too vulnerable before and they appear to suffer from missile casualties at approximately the same level in MTW-VI as they did in WE/MI

To Avoid Duplication may i suggest you tweak the current build prod file to reflect fixed no-dachi speed, nag cav combat, adjust the cav speeds and gun unit sizes, (i would suggest not adjusting the Ashi Teppo mercenary unit - they fill their campaign game role quite well) - you could remove them from the unit mix available for online play altogether.
Then make a SECOND copy and adjust the unit costs for Online play.
Then email both copies of the unit prod files to myself and to Tosa,

At this time i will not add any more factions to the currently available copies.
Once i have your adjusted stats files here i will add in the new factions and new units and then I will send you copies of those unit prod files (and a campaign script file set to activate them) for further testing
thanks
B.

TosaInu
11-30-2003, 14:23
Konnichiwa,

Part of the 1.03 balance was to counter &#39;super&#39;units due to upgrading/downgrading. MTW has a better upgrade cost system, so that&#39;s no longer an issue (missile discount is an exception). MTW charge seems more effective than STW&#39;s.

I wouldn&#39;t say that monks are better protected against arrows because they have the required minimum of 1 instead of 0. Arrows seems more effective: it was a mission impossible to kill a kensai with arrows in STW, I&#39;ve seen him die many times in the first volley here (there are also AP Longbows around in this mod, halving the protective armor).

A 100% accurate port of 1.03 STW data to MTW will not give the same thing.

The opposite may be true. The nagcav and no-dachi were fine units in STW because they were &#39;cheap&#39; to upgrade. There may be other things, but that&#39;s where they lost now.

Puzz3D
12-01-2003, 16:17
barocca,

The no-dachi speed and cav archer speed are clearly wrong because they are not the same as WE/MI v1.01 while all the other units are the same except that charge on all the cav is +2 over the run speed in the STWmod. Why don&#39;t you just change no-dachi to 12 run and 12 charge, and change cav archer to 20 run and 22 charge, and we&#39;ll see how that plays in the next release.


Tosa,

There is a major difference in the arrows between WE/MI and MTW/VI, and that difference is in how the ammo of dead men is treated. In WE/MI, the living took the arrows from the dead men in the unit conserving total ammo, but in MTW/VI they don&#39;t and total ammo is lost. So, a depleted ranged unit in MTW/VI is less effective than a depleted unit in WE/MI. Of course, if the ranged unit remains at full strength, there is no difference.

TenkiSoratoti
12-01-2003, 20:00
I&#39;m not sure I understand why this is not a sticky thread, but I guess you Moderators know what your doing...

TP

Dr_No
12-10-2003, 14:44
***bump****

reading, watching, playing and waiting.....

Orda Khan
12-11-2003, 18:34
Ok, I&#39;ve waited ten pages but I can&#39;t wait any longer. I&#39;m itching to know what Mongol units will be incorporated..

Will we have Golden Horde units?
Will we have MI Mongol units?
Will we have a mixture?
Is it possible to have a mixture?

Personally, I would love to see a combination that uses the Korean units from MI along with the Golden Horde Warriors and thereby introducing the foot archers that CA left out. A combination in the cav units would add some &#39;sparkle&#39; to the battlefield ...Golden Horde Heavy Cav, MI Heavy Cav ( possibly under a different name..Medium Cav? ) and both Golden Horde Horse Archers and Mongol Light Cav units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif What an awesome sight they would make....

Please put me out of my misery http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...In the meantime....What Dr_No said

......Orda

Puzz3D
12-16-2003, 20:54
Corpses:

DnC has discovered why some unit&#39;s corpses don&#39;t work in the regular vi. I have gotten corpses to work in the beta 5 STWmod using his information. This involves adding units to the deadpage file which I have verified does not cause any incompatibility with the regular online mtw/vi. I played an entire regular mtw/vi 3v3 battle using a modified deadpage file which happened to block all corpses from showing on my machine, and the game played fine. I&#39;ll make the necessary changes to the deadpage and stw_10_unit_prod files and send them to barocca.


Units:

Since I&#39;ll be sending a new stw_10_unit_prod file, I intend to include changes to two units based on playing the SP campaign and some online and custom battle tests unless there is objection.

First, I&#39;ll set the no-dachi run and charge speeds to 12. I&#39;ve been playing with them set to 12, and it seems fine.

Second, I intend to make some small alterations to the naginata cav unit. The problem with this unit is it&#39;s ineffectiveness. A yari cav will kill 40 nag cav in the charge and only loose 10. Also, the nag cav cannot beat a monk with a well executed charge as it could in we/mi v103. Coupled with this relative ineffectiveness is it&#39;s slow run speed making it the slowest cav and contributing to fatigue. Currently, the nag cav is a 18/20 run/charge speed unit. I suggest a change to 20/22 which makes it equal in speed to the heavy cav. This would give 3 clear speed classifications to cav units: heavy and nag cav at 20/22, hatamoto at 22/26, yari and archer cav at 24/26. The other change to nag cav would be adding +1 to the defend value which is currently 0. That cuts the degree by which they loose to yari cav (but they still loose), allows them to last a little longer as their armor of 4 should allow and makes it possible for them to beat a monk under the ideal circumstances of a well executed charge. They&#39;ll loose to a monk without a good charge of 15+ kills, and heavy cav will still beat them by a good margin.

The other main unit types seem to play fine. The hatamoto is curiously effective despite it&#39;s small size of 12 men. Battlefield upgrades are quite possibly playing a role here as they are relatively easy to achieve with small units. I haven&#39;t encountered or tried battlefield ninja, kensai or teppo yet in the SP campaign.

Any other ideas?

Hattori
12-17-2003, 02:36
Hey there guys I have just got done reading threw most of the posts here and am currently in line waiting for the mod I can&#39;t wait From what I hear it is well worth it. Anyways I have a sugesstion to Barocca about a new unit;
The Elite Samurai class.

They should cost atleast as much as Heavy Calvary or maybe more. There upkeep should be high too, this will prevent people and AI from building to much of them. But have 1 or 2 in an army used correctly would be devasting. These guys should be feared

They should have around 60-80 men to represent the fact that the real elite samurai warriors weren&#39;t a dime a dozen.

They would have a high Attack and Defense rating, to show there extreme skill with the sword.(also maybe give them bows. These guys were also expert archers. But they would only have about half the arrows of a regular archer unit.)

A good Armour rating becuase they all have been fully armoured in traditional samurai atire. Which offers good protection and good mobility so there armour won&#39;t slow them down.

There morale should be at the utmost highest level. Remember these are the guys who would rather die in battle then retreat..Very stubborn units. Also it would be really cool if that either you make it so they cannont retreat or if they do you lose the unit to show that they all commited seppku, which is what they did in the face of defeat and shame. They also cannot be bribed by any other faction, unless they turned to ronin first.

They should cause fear. Everyone who faught these guys were intimidated. Also their armour was made in a fashion as to cause fear in their enemies.

The option at the beggining of the battle to have them mounted or on foot.

Again this wouldn&#39;t unbalance things because they will cost so much. I that they should be the ultimate fighitng machines, that only heavy calvary can stand up to.. Even then they should be a good challange. These guys should be able to easliy take on 3 units of yari. Also be stand up to a couple of units of warrior monks and No-Dachi. Almost think of these guys as a group of kensai together, just not as extreme, because then they would never die:)

Balmont
02-06-2004, 18:06
*bump*

Any more news?

-Bal

Thoros of Myr
02-07-2004, 06:17
Teppo are quite fearsome. In rows of three with a bit of valour they are deadly accurate and the perfect troop for dispatching an enemy daimyo that is tied up in another engagement. I&#39; once had them simultaniously shoot down 7 front line horse that were charging them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Puzz3D, If you want some testing feedback on your stw_10_unit_prod tweaks I would be glad to & if you could send me a deadpage file that fixes the coprse problem I would be very happy as I can&#39;t seem to be able to fix it from DnC&#39;s intructions.

MiniKiller
02-08-2004, 20:50
hey are u making this just like the original shogun mongol invasion? such as starting dates faction colors, faction ai makeups and faction starting locations? Heck if u make it just like stw i would delete that one lol.

of course u might change things for later additions but is it right now just trying to get it just like stw?

MiniKiller
02-10-2004, 02:21
bump

Gregoshi
02-11-2004, 19:34
FYI to all interested in barocca&#39;s STW mod: I received an email from him yesterday. He&#39;s been scarce around here since before the holidays because he&#39;s been working two jobs which have left him with little time and energy to work on the mod. Also, a lightning strike in the Brisbane area that caused him a 2 day power outage has affected his PC. He lost a couple of hard drives and his PC has been "unreliable" since. Now he&#39;s waiting for word from his insurance company about replacing the ailing PC.

Specifically refering to the mod, he says that thanks to backups to CD, he&#39;s only lost a couple of hours of work on it. He also added the following:

Quote[/b] ]please apologise to the boys in the STW forum for me, if any of them want to have a dab at adding the mongols into the beta mod they can and i will endeavour to flesh out their contributions with appropriate artwork when i am back online, and have some spare time...(while he is working two jobs)...i will endeavour to devote an entire weekend soley to the mod at least once a month.


So that&#39;s the latest word from the man himself.