View Full Version : Come out and fight, you b*****d!
Big King Sanctaphrax
03-19-2004, 21:14
What does everyone think of snipers in online games? Are they tactically important? Annoying? Neccessary? Cowardly? Skilled? Or-particularly in team games-just lazy people looking for a high kill count who can't be bothered to help the team?
Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 21:57
Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ Mar. 19 2004,14:14)]What does everyone think of snipers in online games? Are they tactically important? Annoying? Neccessary? Cowardly? Skilled? Or-particularly in team games-just lazy people looking for a high kill count who can't be bothered to help the team?
They ARE helping the team, by picking off the enemy in great numbers... enemies that would have otherwise killed other team members.
The ends justify the means. Who cares how you win so long as you do so without cheating. If sniper rifles are in the game then sniping is part of the game, period. It seems only youngsters get bent out of shape when some clever sniper repeatedly nails their ass from halfway across the map. Maybe it's because I'm at the ripe old age of 33 but I take sniping and camping as being just another aspect of online gaming. Don't like it? Too bad, deal with it.
The biggest problem with campers and snipers is that many of them don't know how to do either AND help their team win the match. There's nothing more frustrating than playing an objective type match (i.e. Battlefield 1942) and upon losing all your spawn points having the last man alive on your team sit tight while camping/sniping from some worthless part of the map and far removed from any flag.
Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 22:15
Quote[/b] (Spino @ Mar. 19 2004,15:12)]The biggest problem with campers and snipers is that many of them don't know how to do either AND help their team win the match. There's nothing more frustrating than playing an objective type match (i.e. Battlefield 1942) and upon losing all your spawn points having the last man alive on your team sit tight while camping/sniping from some worthless part of the map and far removed from any flag.
*snickers* Sounds like most people I play with in CounterStrike
Big King Sanctaphrax
03-19-2004, 22:33
Quote[/b] ]The biggest problem with campers and snipers is that many of them don't know how to do either AND help their team win the match. There's nothing more frustrating than playing an objective type match (i.e. Battlefield 1942) and upon losing all your spawn points having the last man alive on your team sit tight while camping/sniping from some worthless part of the map and far removed from any flag.
Bang on.
Voigtkampf
03-20-2004, 01:07
Well, I've been sniper in certain situations and games, and I have extensively used rifles in call of Duty before going in to close distance with machine guns etc. The latter, I must say, is what I like more, but it's all just the matter of tactics and the nature of the game you are playing. CoD, for example, is mostly set on small maps where rifles prove their worth - if you know how to use them right, of course, but in the hand-to-hand house engagements you want to have either a good MP44 or a Thompson and no sniper or rifle for sure.
My last sniper experience lies some hour behind me; I was playing Battlefield Vietnam as an American and we were wiping the Vietcong pretty hard. At some point though most of my comrades ran of for the last spawn point of the Vietcong and I straggled behind them, scanning the hills. Suddenly I noticed some five or six Vietcong soldiers coming down this big hill, straight towards me and the US spawn point at the middle of the map. I use my M60, knock down two of them and get shot down by a sniper. I respawn with the sniper myself and start firing at them again, they also kept reappearing at the point up on the hill (I could see them clearly materializing thorough the scope, but funny enough, there was no spawn point there at all). So, there I am, killing the Vietnamese, get shot at by their snipers, strafe like mad, keep picking them off and shout for reinforcements, while my other teammates are happily roaming all over the other end of the map, with entire center and the south of the map are up to me alone to defend I did manage to hold them off, though, and eventually fought with a sniper at the point blank range around the flag, killing the last Vietcong as my brothers in arms remembered to reinforce my position.
Sir Moody
03-20-2004, 02:52
well from past experiance i can say playing as a Sniper is only viable in some games - i used to play Quake and Unreal at LAN matches but people started gettin annoyed at me as im a dead shot - litterally in UT2003 i can pick people off accross the map with the shock rifle no problem - i barely even think about it and in that game people who can do that rack up scores fast - and the people your playing against refuse to play you anymore... i still play there but im banned from using anything but flak and missiles...
recently ive moved onto a ut2003 mod Red Orchestra - now theres a game people who can shoot straight are valued
its a realism mod based in the Russian front in WW2, usually one bullet will kill and you dont move so fast making it one of those games where you rush from one cover to another - with no cross hair you cant move and fire unless you are very lucky - if you can bring up iron sights to aid your aim yo uare limmited so a crawl - you better be sure you can take the enemy down or your gonna be in the open and rebolting (well only if your a rifleman/sniper)
in this kind of game the sniper slot is the most important slot - a good sniper can swing the tide of a map from good positions and a bad one can doom his team but a sniper at the same time isnt truely needed as every basic rifleman can be just as accurate but its just harder with no zoom...
people dont complain if you are a good sniper they praise you so im stuck with it now
im just waiting on my copy of UT2004 and the next release (with Machine guns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif ) so i can have a hell of a good time
well it all depends on the game.
from my experience with MoH:AA, snipers are somewhat essential on SOME maps. although they do get annoying if your on a objective based map and hes just there campin till someone bashes him on the head.
UT2004 is a blast. Just got it.
*Ahem*
That being said, I view snipers as assets and those who are very good have a lot of skill indeed, this coming from my CS experience. I only ever became a slightly better than average sniper in that game, and I know what a difference a good sniper can make.
You guys should play America's Army. Snipers are really well simulated in there and their weapons and combat effectiveness actually makes sniping very hard, just like it is in reality.
A good sniper can be the most important player in the team.
Ironside
03-21-2004, 10:53
But it can get quite annoying sometimes, when I ran CoD with some friends, we had to ban the sniper rifle, thankss to that it was the most effective weapon, so all players ended up with it. And to point out I aren't even good at sniping and it was still the best weapon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif And it isn't funny when all runs around with snipers.
It's a good weapon, but it can get a very high annoyence factor somtimes.
I personally like the position of snipers in online games when they are used the way the should be. Too often though I get teams full of snipers tht just sit there and rack up frags while I try to win the game by myself. Occasionally I've had snipers that fire only on valuable targets or those affecting my small team instead of every enemy they see, these end up being the most useful because they can help us and don't need protection from the enemy needing to fluch him out because they're so frustrated.
Too many games make snipers to easy though, they make the rifles one shot one kill instead of making it so skilled snipers good with shot placement are needed to get one shot one kill. Scope drift, realistic damage, bullet fall and wind effects should all be put in for snipers, and all weapons as well.
I used to be a good sniper in most games but then I strayed away from it because it was just too easy and not really fun when everyone needed to become a sniper to get me. I like FPSers were I can engage the enemy with iron sights at around 200m.
Kekvit Irae
03-21-2004, 13:11
Quote[/b] (spmetla @ Mar. 21 2004,05:22)]Too many games make snipers to easy though, they make the rifles one shot one kill instead of making it so skilled snipers good with shot placement are needed to get one shot one kill. Scope drift, realistic damage, bullet fall and wind effects should all be put in for snipers, and all weapons as well.
I used to be a good sniper in most games but then I strayed away from it because it was just too easy and not really fun when everyone needed to become a sniper to get me. I like FPSers were I can engage the enemy with iron sights at around 200m.
You, sir, will want to play Operation Flashpoint. Trust me, you want to. The only thing that isnt in there is wind effects, but it's still pretty realistic.
http://www.fileplanet.com/section.aspx?s=32949
That's the demo. The SP demo gives you an M16A2 assault rifle, but if you want to TK someone, you can snag yourself an M16A2+M209 Grenade Launcher, M60 machine gun, or an M21 sniper rifle.
Voigtkampf
03-21-2004, 13:28
Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Mar. 21 2004,03:53)]But it can get quite annoying sometimes, when I ran CoD with some friends, we had to ban the sniper rifle, thankss to that it was the most effective weapon, so all players ended up with it. And to point out I aren't even good at sniping and it was still the best weapon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif And it isn't funny when all runs around with snipers.
It's a good weapon, but it can get a very high annoyence factor somtimes.
When you get yourself among experienced players, it's not. My friend's clan server also forbids snipers, but this other clan server does not; I rarely see someone using snipers, and those are mostly noobs. Experienced players (I am not one of them, but I imitate them well from time to time, thank you very much) go for rifles at the beginning of the match and after kill or two they pick up machine gun for real close quarters combat. Sniper is a drag, while rifle is precise as hell and gives you more maneuvering and firing space, and the snipers vision field is extremely narrow.
BTW, I just love to outflank some overzealous n00b sniper and beat the hell out of him with the gun melee attack.
ghost recon > operation flashpoint :)
Kekvit Irae
03-22-2004, 04:10
Your opinion, anyway.
I dont see any way to command an Abrams or pilot an Apache in Ghost Recon :P
OpFlash is a great game Frustrating at times, and the leadership system is a little cumbersome, but overall very good.
Kekvit Irae
03-22-2004, 05:02
Yes, yes it is. ^_^
Antalis::
03-22-2004, 07:49
Yeah I played and made things for Operation Flashpoint for a very long time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
An outstanding singleplayer game.
You can play it also in mulitplayer, but its best in singleplayer.
As much as I like Counterstrike I really don't like the way it implements sniper rifles, at least not the AWM. It's still far too common seeing around 50% of players using AWMs. The limited field of vision is no problem for a very skilled player because the scope isn't used until the target is spottet. The time it takes the best players to right-click for scope, aim and left-click to kill is only a fraction of a second, and this despite the fact that they were running when they spottet the target. You don't see that in real life. I'm no weapons expert but I'm pretty sure a real sniper using such a heavy weapon as the AWM will need to set up, preferable resting the weapon on something. In contrast I like the way Day of Defeat delays this process by fading your vision for a moment while you look into the scope. In general I think sniper rifles could do with a lot more drift, so that it would require more patience from the sniper to get the good shot and not just god-like reactions. That should get the sniper ratio down to more realistic levels.
In raven shield snipers are respected, it is the hardest role of the game. You have to be an excellent shot with the sniper rifle and a great pistol player at the same time. Thank god for silencers, before the patch the flash of your rifle gave away your position, which meant you were pretty much screwed. Now you can actually get a kill from time to time before you get blown to pieces.
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 24 2004,04:50)]In raven shield snipers are respected, it is the hardest role of the game. You have to be an excellent shot with the sniper rifle and a great pistol player at the same time. Thank god for silencers, before the patch the flash of your rifle gave away your position, which meant you were pretty much screwed. Now you can actually get a kill from time to time before you get blown to pieces.
Actually, raven shield has a lot of sniper issues. Few of the maps really even need snipers, especially when a scoped rifle or an aug or g36k can do virtually the same thing. Also, an issue with the game was a bug that made silenced weapons do a ridiculously low amount of damage, like 1/5 or 1/8.
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Mar. 24 2004,21:35)]
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 24 2004,04:50)]In raven shield snipers are respected, it is the hardest role of the game. You have to be an excellent shot with the sniper rifle and a great pistol player at the same time. Thank god for silencers, before the patch the flash of your rifle gave away your position, which meant you were pretty much screwed. Now you can actually get a kill from time to time before you get blown to pieces.
Actually, raven shield has a lot of sniper issues. Few of the maps really even need snipers, especially when a scoped rifle or an aug or g36k can do virtually the same thing. Also, an issue with the game was a bug that made silenced weapons do a ridiculously low amount of damage, like 1/5 or 1/8.
The silencers now do 50% of their default damage, so a Barret or Walther now has a 50 points, which is enough for a 1 shot kill. And I strongly disagree that sniper rifles are useless on most of the maps, quite the contrary. The trick is to cover the corner before the enemy pops out, when you have enough knowledge of the maps you should know where and when. Try joining a server with advanced players, and you will speak no more evil of one of the games devastating attacks.
Kekvit Irae
03-25-2004, 20:36
Last time I played, I used nothing but M14s with silencers. Even with silencers, they were the best hardest hitting weapons in the game, far more than an MP4SD5 or M16A2 SD. A bit overbalanced considering the range and accuracy on the rifle.
nightcrawlerblue
03-25-2004, 21:40
Sniping is integral to a game in my opinion. Some games do well without it but sniping is my preferred venue for blowing someone away.
I agree with what someone else said. If sniping is in the game, deal with it Just because someone isn't good enough to stop you doesn't mean you're cheating or being cheap.
The_Emperor
03-25-2004, 23:59
C&C Renegade had some very fun ways of dealing with Snipers.
You can either get in a tank and shell the guy, or (if your NOD) Buy a Stealth Tank and run him over, or(My personal fave online) get a stealth trooper and plant some C4 on his back...
A few minutes later the sniper goes boom http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
RisingSun
03-26-2004, 03:04
DoD handles sniping fairly well, and they can be a real force on some maps. *cough* Caen *cough*
With the new patch, though, it's gonna be way too easy for snipers. They made all the windows much darker- even ones with the light supposedly shining right into them.
Personally I can't wait till DoD 2 once HL 2 comes out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 25 2004,09:22)]
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Mar. 24 2004,21:35)]
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 24 2004,04:50)]In raven shield snipers are respected, it is the hardest role of the game. You have to be an excellent shot with the sniper rifle and a great pistol player at the same time. Thank god for silencers, before the patch the flash of your rifle gave away your position, which meant you were pretty much screwed. Now you can actually get a kill from time to time before you get blown to pieces.
Actually, raven shield has a lot of sniper issues. Few of the maps really even need snipers, especially when a scoped rifle or an aug or g36k can do virtually the same thing. Also, an issue with the game was a bug that made silenced weapons do a ridiculously low amount of damage, like 1/5 or 1/8.
The silencers now do 50% of their default damage, so a Barret or Walther now has a 50 points, which is enough for a 1 shot kill. And I strongly disagree that sniper rifles are useless on most of the maps, quite the contrary. The trick is to cover the corner before the enemy pops out, when you have enough knowledge of the maps you should know where and when. Try joining a server with advanced players, and you will speak no more evil of one of the games devastating attacks.
I no longer play internet because of the flaws in the game. UBI screwed up, imho.
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Mar. 25 2004,20:51)]
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 25 2004,09:22)]
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Mar. 24 2004,21:35)]
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Mar. 24 2004,04:50)]In raven shield snipers are respected, it is the hardest role of the game. You have to be an excellent shot with the sniper rifle and a great pistol player at the same time. Thank god for silencers, before the patch the flash of your rifle gave away your position, which meant you were pretty much screwed. Now you can actually get a kill from time to time before you get blown to pieces.
Actually, raven shield has a lot of sniper issues. Few of the maps really even need snipers, especially when a scoped rifle or an aug or g36k can do virtually the same thing. Also, an issue with the game was a bug that made silenced weapons do a ridiculously low amount of damage, like 1/5 or 1/8.
The silencers now do 50% of their default damage, so a Barret or Walther now has a 50 points, which is enough for a 1 shot kill. And I strongly disagree that sniper rifles are useless on most of the maps, quite the contrary. The trick is to cover the corner before the enemy pops out, when you have enough knowledge of the maps you should know where and when. Try joining a server with advanced players, and you will speak no more evil of one of the games devastating attacks.
I no longer play internet because of the flaws in the game. UBI screwed up, imho.
Raven shield lacks the edge of rogue spear, but it is a pretty good game, and pretty stable in it´s current condition. At first I was kinda mad at ubi, but they have proved that they are dedicated to make this game work (even when the sales stopped). If you liked the previous ones trying again won´t hurt, you may even be pleasantly surprised. The only gripe I really have with raven shield is the mapstructure, they seem to be designed around a unwelcome RS phenomana, the ´fragrush´. Other then that the game is deeper and more strategic, I say you should try it again. Maybe you may even see me before you are hugging the floor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Sir Moody
03-26-2004, 16:33
i gave up Ravenshield for 1 glareing reason which relates to this topic - the players attitudes
i spent a good deal of time sneaking around and ambushing enemies for instance i would find a spot i knew the enemies would pass dig myself in and wait - an example is a door on one map where the other side repeatadle threw themselves at, i hid behind a wall with a crack looking through the crack to target the door - over the next 4 mins i killed half the opposing side
BUT rather than applaude me my team critisise me for not moving into assualt and i end up kicked and banned... for using my head in a game aimed at realism
same story on most the servers i played on so i just gave up and wandered off
Quote[/b] (Sir Moody @ Mar. 26 2004,09:33)]i gave up Ravenshield for 1 glareing reason which relates to this topic - the players attitudes
i spent a good deal of time sneaking around and ambushing enemies for instance i would find a spot i knew the enemies would pass dig myself in and wait - an example is a door on one map where the other side repeatadle threw themselves at, i hid behind a wall with a crack looking through the crack to target the door - over the next 4 mins i killed half the opposing side
BUT rather than applaude me my team critisise me for not moving into assualt and i end up kicked and banned... for using my head in a game aimed at realism
same story on most the servers i played on so i just gave up and wandered off
That is a problem on some public servers, the kids can´t get counterstrike out of their heads. When you join the better servers (mostly scandinavian and german for some reason) you won´t have this problem. If you are europian, feel free to join a game in our X.Kill server, I use the same name on ubi as here. Be ready for a dreadfull experience. I myself never had any troubles with the overal attitude of the community, it is a very mature and friendly community compared with other fps games.
nightcrawlerblue
03-26-2004, 19:56
I don't play any games online (mom won't let me) but I'd hate to have someone do that. I love using some strategy to beat me enemies but from what I've heard most of my tactics would get everyone mad online (benefits of playing with CPU bots). For instance: You're a real soldier and you have the choice to either be a sniper who has less chance of getting hit or a bomb disarmer who has to go out in the midst of a lot of fire. I'd pick the sniper personally...
Well the rock/paper/scissors holds up pretty well online (I only play the rainbow six series). Most of the time you will see that a sniper beats submachine gun/assault rifle long distance, assauly rifle will take sniper on middle and smg at middle, and a smg will beat anything up close, but will need support when encountering assault rifles. Just like any strategygame you have to take the right tools to the job. Being a sniper when you have an agressive team before you is a sure defeat, you have to know when you have to use what. Beating a game can close to science http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
nightcrawlerblue
03-26-2004, 23:52
I prefer being a sniper in games where you can hide and snipe. A real sniper wouldn't stand out in the open and shoot. That would be like painting a big red crosshair on his uniform
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