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Kraellin
Shukan
Posts: 2161
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 08-22-2002 05:03 AM
as i stated in that post a while back about what faction you were going to play first, i did indeed pick spain. i found it interesting that the various factions one can choose have modifiers to the difficulty rating you pick. if you pick easy and pick spain, you actually play at a higher difficulty rating because it's spain. byzantine seems the easiest, from i saw, english are moderate and dont really remember the rest of them.
as spain, i made a fatal error to start my campaign and had to restort it about 8 or 10 moves later. this time i drove out the almohad in about 2 years and was even into morocco sieging the castle there. all that was left untaken of spain were the rebel provinces. my fatal error in the first game was trying to take the rebel province of portugal too early. beware of this, not all rebel provinces react the same way when first taken. portugal has a FIERCE loyalty to portugal, where valencia drops like a fly and stays that way. upon taking portugal i had a MASSIVE uprising the following turn that was about 800 men strong in the rebel army. sheesh wasnt counting on that at all.
i'm currently playing a very simplistic campaign game. it's on easy and i'm playing almost entirely militaristically. build, invade, siege, raise loyalty, build. i took the southern province of spain and on the next tun i was offered something to do with mercenaries. not quite sure what's going on there yet, but i didnt seem to get them. i'll have to start reading the manual, it would seem http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
all in all, the front end shld be fairly familiar to all shogun lovers. sure, there's new stuff, but the play is very familiar.
and in the first game, like i said, i'm playing it militaristically, i had a couple daughter princesses but was pretty much ignoring doing anything with them, when all of a sudden i get this message that one of them has become a 'spinster' and 'is now retiring to less arduous tasks'...lol. that had to be target's doing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
cham, and magy, i'm playing everything so far in auto-resolve for the sake of speed in finding out other things, so i've only got that one logfile so far. shld i remember, or read this again tomorrow, i'll send it off to you.
and to the guys at CA, this must seem something like a hollywood premier night. all the 'stars' come out of hiding to see the new show and then talk and write reviews and so on. so far, i'd say it's a hit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
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DarknScaly
Samurai Hero
Posts: 121
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-22-2002 11:51 AM
hehe
Yeah Portugal is a serious hotbed of rebellion for its own ends... often end up ahving to throw in extra spies and extra troops just to keep the darn place quiet and peaceful.
There's some others like that also... ;-)
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Nelson
Tai-Sa
Posts: 906
From:USA
Registered: Apr 1999
posted 08-22-2002 03:15 PM
Wouldn't you know, 12 kingdoms to pick and I took Spain too. I'm playing on normal difficulty.
The first thing I noticed was that King Alphonso VI is a hell of a guy . Influential, smart, pious, commanding, and even a bit dreadful with a knack for defending in the field. Then I had to sort out the dukes and duchies and appoint a chancellor. This took a while because I had to examine each general. I gave Castile to the wrong man and had to officially take it back. So let this be a warning to all, bestowing titles (and princesses) is immediate, not when you hit the end turn button. You need to be very careful. The one usable daughter I have I packed off to Aragon to marry the king and hopefully secure my north east flank while I begin the Reconquista down south.
With 8000 in the treasury I then had to decide what to build. This is when the tech tree comes in handy. I hope it's correct. Since on region can build Knights of Santiago with +1 valor I began the construction path that will let me raise them. I won’t see them any time soon. Until then, I will raise (very useful) jinetes there. In Castile I built watch towers to see what the Almohads and the Valencians were up to.
After several turns I have taken Valencia from the rebel El Cid (maybe I should have bribed him) and captured Cordoba from the Moslems. The later was a pitched battle over two river crossings having 900 men on each side with the command edge going to Alphonso. Many fights in Owari prepared me for this and I suffered just 64 casualties and captured almost 500 prisoners worth 1400 florins. During this fight the jinites units were invaluable. Their javelin volleys tore the Almohad urban militia to pieces and their pursuit lead to all the captives. If the Almohads had had more cav this would have been tougher but as it was my cav could maneuver at will. When the javelins were gone they could charge home to good effect. In this battle the jinetes routed the enemy all by themselves as the infantry watched.
Something had to go wrong and sure enough after leaving my coward of a son (-9 morale)in Valencia the rebellious locals revolted which will mean a bit of punitive work next turn by a better man than he.
I have spent no money thus far on ports or trade but intend to once Iberia proper is altogether Spanish. I’d like to arrange a Crusade against the Almohads before long.
The game has been a blast so far. The strategy map demands a lot of thought. I’m glad for that.
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COGITOERGOVINCO
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Kraellin
Shukan
Posts: 2161
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 08-22-2002 06:06 PM
nelson,
the key for me in spain was send EVERYTHING you have towards the almohads on the FIRST turn and just keep on going south. drive them completely out of spain and even take morocco or further. do NOT let them start building and then attack them later on. their reserves down south are too weak and too far away to put up any decent resistance and they'll just start not even fighting, but retreating back to the next province. just keep em moving back while building up spain. you can then handle the rebel provinces much easier. keep one good army in the south to keep the almohads from attacking and you can then start concentrating on other directions. so far, that's been my best strategy for spain.
when and if you go after portugal, do so with a huge force, spies and emissaries so that you can camp out there and build up the loyalty quickly. it's one nasty province.
spain is apparently one of the hardest provinces to start in, but it's a key faction when it comes to trade routes, particularly by sea.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
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DarknScaly
Samurai Hero
Posts: 121
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-22-2002 06:17 PM
Spanish farm lands are bloomin' marvelous also (you can go over 1000 florins per province and more with a good governor) - and the 3 provinces with iron deposits is a BIG advantage later on with weapons upgrades.
Kraellin's tactics v the Almohads is the only way I have found to survive as the Spanish - the ALmos ALWAYS eventually come after Spain and if you let them build up then they will toast you.
Once established though you ahve trade routes north and south(east), superb farmlands and good trade items, iron deposits and even silver and gold mines, especially once you roll over the ALmohads.
Always keep an eye on the Aroganese though - they are notorious for stabbing you in the back and they'll invade any juicy province you leave vaguely undefended (at least they do on expert)..they also seem to breed heirs and princesses like rabbits, its almost frightening...surpised their kings ever find time to fight.
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Nelson
Tai-Sa
Posts: 906
From:USA
Registered: Apr 1999
posted 08-22-2002 07:53 PM
Thanks for the tips guys.
My intent when I crossed the border into Cordoba was to hit hard and not stop. I attacked southward as soon as I had parity in numbers. The win was big and now the Almohads look weak in Granada so I'll push 'til they can stop me or until they are gone (assuming some other power doesn't drop by for a war in Spain). I'd like to get a Crusade going against them but I need the right infrastructure first. A bishop or two might also be a good idea to convert the Moslems. I may try bribing Portugal just to see how bribing works. If successful I won't need to divert forces from the south to deal with them. I need a low risk solution to my heir problem (don't want a bad heir day) so I may try letting the prince assault the castle in Cordoba before it falls in order to help correct his cowardly rep. His attributes are so good save for the pants pissing fear thing that I want to rehabilitate him if I can. I am also gambling that Aragon will stay friendly long enough for me to snuff the Almohs. If they don't I'll see what siege defense and relief is like The grand plan has the Almohads going down followed by the acquisition of a trade empire. After that I need to see how things look. I can foresee any number of ways the wheels can come off my cart as I reach for Spanish glorious achievements.
You can spend a hell of a lot of time deciding what to do on the map. The options each turn can be staggering even with a small kingdom. You absolutely need a long range plan.
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COGITOERGOVINCO
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Kraellin
Shukan
Posts: 2161
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 08-22-2002 09:00 PM
ok, the almohads are now extinct and i own all of north africa, save egypt. portugal fell without any counter-rebellion. arogon is staying civil with me and i've finished my first goal...the land grab.
i'm going to have to crack open the manual now and see about this trade stuff and diplomacy, now that i'm a faction to be reckoned with. i'm getting emissaries flooding my lands looking for alliances and marraiges and i'm warmly and cordially accepting all of them....so far http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
i finally figured out how to get the mercenaries i kept clicking on. you have to also click on the 'hand' at the bottom to seal the deal and then they show up.
i also captured the little rebel province to the north and have my northern border well protected. i've begun building ports and have been increasing my income production upgrades right along. i'm currently, by report, the wealthiest faction in the world, but lagging behind in tech tree and military. seems the germans are fairly militaristic and they hold that honor. the byzantines hold the highest tech level honor.
but, by now having a nice potential land base to work from, i can begin to upgrade and improve tech and military. but the next goal is to establish the seas and trade routes and domination there and for that i'm going to have to do a little reading.
gil, one thing about the multiplayer foyer. i'm an old fart and that text in there is a bit smallish and a bit garbled with one or two characters for these old eyes. raising it about 2 font points would be nice. or maybe include an option where the player could pick his font style and size? that would be the best. we also dont really need all that side dressing. could the chat area be expanded in width? i'd much rather have a full screen chat area than all the side dressing stuff. i know it looks nice and all, but function over aesthetics, always.
well, now that the north american premier night is over and the reviews are pouring in, what's it looking like from your end at CA guys? gonna be able to pay the bills? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
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chunkynut
04-29-2004, 10:06
Early, Normal
The Spanish in my opinion are one of the easiest factions to play the peninsular is smack between the med and the northern seas so trading income is huge. The top 3 territories (Leon, Navarro and ??) all have iron so can produce troops of quality. A good general can be bribed in Valencia (El Cid) and lastly the main Spanish province borders the main almohad province.
To set off well simply attack and hold Cordoba this reduces nearly all almohad troop production to nothing. Bribe El Cid and Navarro.
Leave Portugal until you have the money and troops to leave about 600 men there for the first 5 - 10 years and build the province up and give it a good governor (it also has 2 tradable goods http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).
Take aragon and you have created a bottleneck to the north holding any French or English advance and with the peninsular under your control you can start taking those nice gold mined provinces in north Africa.
Fortify and expand.
Doug-Thompson
04-29-2004, 16:49
I agree that the Spanish are not hard to play. Hardly. They have the huge advantage of almost boundless room to expand against the Muslim factions at no excommunication risk at all.
The Spanish should crusade early and often. They get the ability to build a chapter house for a reason.
Crusading early accomplishes several things. First, influence and loyalty are no problem. Second, you get Order Foot Troops and Knights of Santiago in the opening moves -- a military force that just can't be beat by anybody's early era units, especially when those Crusaders are supported by Spanish javelinmen and Jinettes, who are deadly to the precious few armored units available in the early era.
Unlike just about everybody else who plays, apparently, I never bribe El Cid. Paying 5K florins for a few jinettes, a decent general and a province that must be garrisoned is too much. I'd rather invade Valencia and spend the money on a chapter house and Crusades and get the above-mentioned uber-units.
I also violate a cardinal rule of Crusades. I load them up with mercenaries when playing the Spanish. You don't have to pay maintenance costs while they're in Crusade, and I want to make sure the Crusades are successful. I also immediately disband the mercs when the Crusade is over.
There's a real temptation to keep marching across North Africa once you've kicked the Almohads out of the peninsula and have them on the run. You should take Morocco because it's a good choke point. After that, though, it's probably better to do some consolidation, farm upgrades and fleet-building before moving on. You also need to take Portugal before somebody else does, and that will require a substantial garrison. Leave the Almos as a weak buffer between you and the Egyptians until you have a big enough navy to protect your own coasts and at least challenge the Egyptians along their coast. Then, take Egypt and Palestine.with Crusades.
I don't know about that.
About a week ago, I played a Spanish early campaign for kicks and did full North Africa Crusade run, taking everything from Cordoba to crusader states and Syria with crusades.
By the time I hit Egypt, I had about a full stack of kngihts santiago and 2 stacks of order foot as well as mountains of fanatics
the eggy didn't even dare to fight half the battles.
gosh I miss swiping.
otherwise, my knights snatiago would be even more overpowered and like toned down lancers in early.
it's funny how my knights can take out their camels and spears
it's also nice that each crusade seems to give a knight santiago commander with 3 or 4*.
I also find it not so worthwhile to bribe the cid.
I mean it's cool to command the cid since he's the cid but otherwise, it's not really cost effective.
BTW, pump jinettes if you can afford them.
their javs counter things like RKs although santiagos can handle them and speed means very few enemies leave the field alive. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Doug-Thompson
05-06-2004, 02:28
Quote[/b] (katank @ May 04 2004,21:27)]it's funny how my knights can take out their camels and spears
The trouble with camels is, they die miserably to other cavalry if their low morale breaks. They're too slow to get away, so the cav takes them all.
it's true.
my order foot maul the camels badly with just about no casualties for me.
then my knights santiago can actually chase down the camels even though the camels are supposed to be counter units. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
unfortunately, the camel problem also applies to my favorite cav katanks. they can take most cav but when and if they lose, they can't run away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
The Spanish Lancers (altough expensive) are awsome. Just be carefull not to waste them on spearunits
be careful of polearms and other armor piercing units.
that 9 armor that he's carrying around can actually be used against him.
spears are actually less of a threat than the various halb types.
Chimpyang
05-16-2004, 20:34
Never foreget about little aragorn, I lost Castille AND Navarre to them during my war with the Almohads when most of my troops were in N. Africa. I promptly got excommed even though they attacked me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
never forget about them.
once your crusade run took either Algeria or Tunisia, consider diverting some kngihts santiago and order foot back to sack Aragon.
These essentially chivalric units in early are extremely strong and can knock out the Aragonese UM, archers, and spears with little trouble.
Alternative is to hit them even faster.
I like rushing Aragon right away just to take that small and annoying but also aggressive neighbor off the map.
another advantage is that by taking Aragon early, you have access to Toulouse before the French can connect it.
taking Toulouse when it's isolated means autoceasefire and also a nice farming province with valour bonused chiv knights which aren't that much worse than your unique lancers and are cheaper.
PseRamesses
06-09-2004, 12:45
As for an early Spanish blitz I usually do this:
1087 AD Gather all your forces in Castile. Appoint the two peasants as govs for Leon and Castile. Build jinettes in Leon and arhers/ militia in Castile. Que a chapterhouse in Castile. Send your emissary to bribe El Cid in Valencia. If you´re lucky you can get him for around 3-5.000 fl.
1088 AD Let your king and the entire army take Navarre. El Cid will join you this year.
1089 AD Let El Cid take over your army and invade from bothe Valencia and Navarre. Now this will give you a two-bridge battle - no prob - just send El Cid over one and simoultainesly attack with your foot-soldiers over the other.
1090 AD Assault Aragon castle.
1091 AD Move king to Aragon while withdraw El Cid´s army to Leon with re-inforcements. Build crusade in Castile.
1093 AD Invade Portugal and assault in 1094 AD.
1095 AD Launch crusade against Cordoba and let El Cid lead it. Leave what troops you must in Portugal.
1097-98 AD Let your jinettes invade Granada, shoot them up then withdraw to decimate their forces.
1099 AD Launch second crusade to Granada.
Now you have launched two successful crusades before 1100AD and all of the Iberian peninsula is under the Castilian flag. From here on I usually launch crusade after crusade all the way to the Holy Land while others like to venture into France. Whatever path you choose - good luck
Blodrast
06-09-2004, 21:05
@Doug-Thompson: interesting about the early crusading stuff, esp. w/ mercs. never occurred to me (duh).
however, i wonder about one point some of you guys mentioned: kicking Aragon early. usually my strategy is to take Valencia (no way I'm gonna bribe El Cid) and then Navarre, as fast as I can (otherwise elmo's might take Valencia, and Aragon might take Navarre). I leave Portugal for the time being, it will keep the Elmoheads occupied trying to stifle the countless rebellions (my half dozen bishops in there help too ;P).
however, by the time this is done, I lost a good bunch of troops getting Valencia and Navarre, I need yet another lot of troops to defend both these and my two original provinces (it sucks that they are all border provs), and I find myself w/out enough troops to take out the Aragonese, who, having just one territory, have all their troops in there - and they do have a decent amount of troops, not to mention half a dozen RK's.. (all princes, so pretty decent, and likely quite high valour troops).
I usually leave them alone and start kicking the Almohads, who have lesser quality troops (albeit more of them), and are easy to drive out of Iberia...
Afterwards, I guess it's just like everybody else's strategy: drive all the way to Egypt/Cyrenaica (leaving a province as buffer between you and a strong faction is indeed a good strategy, the AI otherwise may be easily tempted to start a war with you that you just don't feel like fighting at that time), and then the game is pretty much over; I have a strong position both strategically and evonomically, minimal borders, I can kick the Egyptians and get Asia Minor, etc.
The war in Europe tends to be more interesting, since you are bound to get warned and subsequently excommed whenever you attack a European faction, because by now you have a rather large number of provinces. But it's quite a nice challenge, and worth playing.
kill aragonese quickly or they shall become a major problem.
they will stab you in the back at the most inopportune time and has ready access to Castille which will screw you royally.
I try to take Navarre right away and then consolidate for a few turns with 1 spear, archer, jav, archer queued in Castille while Leon pumps jinettes.
I hit aragon in year 3 and they have like 5 archer units, 2 UMs, and only 1 RK, the king.
I pin with spear the king and pump him full of javs, match my UM against their UM and run over their archers using jinettes.
my archer unit will provide covering fire and I managed to capture all routers with my ample jinettes and captured the fort intact without having to assault.
I then grab Toulouse off the French and after autoceasfire, ally with them and focus my attention south.
I kill El Cid in Valencia as he's not worth it IMHO and I bribe Portugal.
I then rush Cordoba using crusades and go for Morocco before Granada as I get some ransom money and also Morocco chokes off renforcements easily.
I crusade across to Tunisia and take a bit of a breath for ships or Itlaians will screw me.
I ally with the French and when they are beating the Brits to a pulp, I take Aquitaine and usually ends with autoceasefire again.
I then ally with the English to restrain the French and I have a neato 3 province border.
Blodrast
06-13-2004, 23:25
but katank, the aragonese are _bound_ to have a bunch of RK's. I haven't carefully checked them in each age (early, high, late), but I remember that in my early game with Spain, they had lots of heirs (just like I did). Not all of them are mature in the very first turn, of course, but they will be in a few years. So that 5year period might need a very careful examination.
because, and i hope you'll agree with me, 1 or 2 extra units of RK make all the difference that early in the game (regardless of age, prerry much).
yeah, they do have extra RKs very soon.
they will have nowhere to expand but into you so you need to hit them before they get out additional RKs.
this is exactly why if you read my post, I said to hit them in year 3 as no a single heir matured yet.
time is of essence as a year later, he might mature.
note that an heir cannot mature if they no longer own a province and are being sieged.
even if you don't kill them all, no more RKs to worry about.
I totally annihilated their force in the field without even having to resort to mercs on expert so this is quite doable.
Doug-Thompson
06-14-2004, 23:55
Re: Aragon's RK.
Jinettes have armor-piercing power for a reason. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Blodrast
06-15-2004, 01:30
you're right Doug-Thompson, i had forgotten about jinettes. Well, Spain was my very first campaign, what do you expect :P
katank: ok, 3 years it is. I really have to try this, because it seems a bit of a stretch to me to get Valencia and Navarre and Aragon in such a short time...but if you say it's doable..
not valencia.
just navarre and then aragon.
I attacked navarre the first turn and stabilized before making a move on aragon on the third turn.
Aragonese were pumping archers all this time and got overwhelmed by my jinette rush.
also, I managed to get a position that was uphill from their's and seeing my jinettes rip into their archers from there was quite satisfying.
I actually used a spear unit to pin and peppered the king's RK (only one present as no heirs yet) with a unit of spanish jav men and he died rather than using jinettes who were off busy chaisng the 6 archers they had.
I didn't go for valencia as the AI is cautious in expansion and the Almos frequently goes for Portugal first.
after taking Aragon, I take Toulouse since it's isolated, auto ceasefire.
it's rich farming with salt mine and later yields bonused CKs.
I then ally with the French and after they are winning, I sack Aquitaine when the French take Anjou for another autoceasefire and I get a nice 2 province border that shields the heartlands of Iberia and I use exclusively crusades to kill the Almos
Doug-Thompson
06-15-2004, 15:18
Quote[/b] (katank @ June 15 2004,08:22)]after taking Aragon, I take Toulouse since it's isolated, auto ceasefire.
it's rich farming with salt mine and later yields bonused CKs.
I then ally with the French and after they are winning, I sack Aquitaine when the French take Anjou for another autoceasefire and I get a nice 2 province border that shields the heartlands of Iberia and I use exclusively crusades to kill the Almos
Lordy.
First you rip off the French, then the English.
I like that. A lot. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
This opening kills one faction (Aragon), wounds two, and isolates a third (Almohads) for death without facing either excommunication or protracted war.
The Spanish get secure borders, rich provinces and limitless room to expand across the south of the map with no excommunication threat at all and Crusades galore. Eventually, they get bonused knights from Toulouse that can be upgraded in the Iberian iron provinces.
Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Just tried it on normal, seems to work very well. Haven't got to Aquitaine yet though.
On my games with the Spanish i seem to attract the expansionist Italians. I don't know if this is a pattern, but if i don't develop a navy soon enough i eventually have to handle landings from invading Italian troops. That forces me to keep garrisons i wouldn't need otherwise, because those are not my obvious border provinces.
Doug-Thompson
06-15-2004, 16:10
Quote[/b] (MadKow @ June 15 2004,09:24)]On my games with the Spanish i seem to attract the expansionist Italians. I don't know if this is a pattern, but if i don't develop a navy soon enough i eventually have to handle landings from invading Italian troops. That forces me to keep garrisons i wouldn't need otherwise, because those are not my obvious border provinces.
One fleet off Valencia solves that problem. You directly protect one coast and their shore-bound galley fleet can't make an unbroken line to any of the provinces behind you. Just be sure to grab Valencia. They can go right through your fleet to land at a neutral rebel province.
yep.
I have problems with expansionist italians too.
I just use a single ship in the Ligurian as I usually have Toulouse.
if I can't get to ships yet, then I have to take it as it comes although it's funny how the Italian Doge is usually involved and actually routinely arrive with a lone archer unit ofr company.
he did this annually for about 3-4 times and I got some money this way.
it's rather funny really.
yep. Doug, I like that strat for this reason as Toulouse is an easy and tempting grab, the AI Aragonese actually isn't as dumb as we think for going there.
Then, your borders become too long if you have that, Navarre, and Aragon.
Pyrennes has two natural chokepoints at Navarre/Aragon or Aquitaine and Toulouse.
I prefer the forward ones as that means I can have a buffer in front of my better developed iron provinces and Aragon especially due to strike ability into Castille and Valencia, the heart of my empire.
The French almost inevitably wins the 100 year's war in a decade or two (ahhh, the irony). As allies, they actually helped me take Aquitaine a few times.
taking these two souther provinces also deprive them of income etc. If they have these two, they woudl be far stronger and a united France within two decades is a fearsome adversary.
I build a chapterhouse immediately and also crusade markers once I have 1 and a half markers, I start crusading the almos.
I also try to bribe portugal if it's not too expensive. I got the force there for 2k once.
It's actually a bargain early on and you can have some peasants stabilize it while you move the bribed force to reinforce the crusade.
early mass at this point can help overwhelm the almos.
take cordoba and then morocco and you'll have killed their advanced production centers.
unite iberia by taking granada and then push across to algeria or Tunisia if you feel like it.
I sometimes let the Almos live in Tunisia or Cyrenacia as a bufeer from the Eggy who I'll crusade later.
Doug-Thompson
06-15-2004, 20:00
By the time the weakened French win their inevitable war with the English, they must be exhausted. Spain would be Crusading through the Holy Land all the way up through Antioch before they have a chance to recover. Brilliant.
Build up some trade with a coastline stretching from the Aquitaine through Valencia and Egypt all the way to Antioch. I'm swooning just thinking about all that cash.
Beef up, let the Golden Horde blow past, then beat everybody to death with your big bags of money. You can even Crusade some more against the Orthodox Byz and heathen Horde.
I must try this.
I tried this before.
I think I stopped at Const. and Georgia, huge empire with far more cash than I coudl ever hope to spend although it meant instant excomm should I ever fight a Catholic, not that it mattered as Crusades are over GA wise.
Yet to finish that game but envision hordes of gold-gold lancers owning the field.
The French actually remained steadfast allies and exhaustedly fought the HRE and never quite finished off the Brits as the Brits hunkered down in fortress Britannica.
Blodrast
06-15-2004, 21:34
Quote[/b] (katank @ June 15 2004,09:22)]not valencia.
just navarre and then aragon.
I didn't go for valencia as the AI is cautious in expansion and the Almos frequently goes for Portugal first.
duh
you serious ? that's a real dumb decision i always went for valencia first, since it's rich and both elmo's and aragonese might grab it...i mean, navarre is good for the iron, but economically a big zero...
whaddya mean the AI is more cautious in the expansion, would you care to elaborate on that ?
Doug-Thompson
06-15-2004, 22:41
Quote[/b] (Blodrast @ June 15 2004,15:34)]duh
you serious ?
Think it through: You take Navarre, Aragon and Toulouse. You destroy one faction and seriously weaken another, the French. You've also probably prolonged the inevitable English-French war while setting yourself up for an easy conquest of the Aquataine in the near future.
In the meantime, the Almohads or the Aragonese might grab Valencia -- which will require a big force to beat El Cid and to garrison.
If the Aragonese take Valencia, your conquest of Aragon will be simple and easy against their divided forces.
If the Almos take it they'll have to defend two provinces instead of one — Cordoba. Stripping them of Cordoba and Valencia will be a snap.
Blodrast
06-16-2004, 00:40
uhm, ok, now reading Doug-Thompson's post it dawns on me that my previous post might be misinterpreted, even more so when only partially quoted; so just to make it clear, it wasn't intended as an offense, except perhaps towards the AI ;)
what my duh you serious ? that is stupid etc. was referring to katank's statement that the AI is more cautious in VI and to the AI's choice, not to katank's choice.
hope it's clearer now ;)
I didn't mean more cautious in VI.
I just meant compared to me.
Then again, most humans are more cautious than me.
except for perhaps Doug and me, few players will be willing to blitz several provinces on the first turn.
My point is that Aragon needs to be destroyed early as they can spam RKs from heirs and be a pain.
also, Toulouse is a very worthwhile province that needs to be grabbed and can be done only by going through Aragon.
Navarre is easy province to grab early and maneuvering to kill those spears and peasants and chasing routers will gain some valor for your troops.
Valencia is going to be secure for the first 5 turns or so as the Almos are scared of 5* El Cid parked there.
They usually go for Portugal instead.
Aragonese are also programmed to go for Navarre or Toulouse before Valencia.
they also pump exclusively archers for the first few turns so your jinettes will have a field day running them all down.
Doug-Thompson
06-16-2004, 15:57
Tried out the Aragon-Toulouse start, and it worked wonderfully. I autoresolved battles to make sure it wasn't dependent on micro or luck. However, I still had the good fortune to kill the Aragonian king in open battle on my second try, avoiding any excommunication risk. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Advantages and observations:
1. Not only was the British-French war was much more protracted, it became a three-way war with the Holy Roman Empire getting entangled. I became the dominant power in Western Europe automatically.
2. The Spanish ability to build a chapter house without a keep doesn't last forever. Use it or lose it.
3. The Almohads didn't make a move on Valencia before I conquered the province.
4. Taking Cordoba and storming the castle gives you a province with a keep and a port right where you need it — on the Spanish east coast. Build a navy there and you can cut off the Italians.
5. I was able to crush the Almos and then transfer Crusader units to West. Nobody was going to get Aquitaine or Province back.
yep. I always had more luck with this method.
previously, I would ignore the Aragonese and hence not fight the French and instead send my Crusaders back to kill the Aragonese.
As Aragon, I tend to go for Toulouse fast so I tried to do the same strats with similar factions. Ie. as turks/eggy/Byz, I always have Georgia, Const, Egypt Triangle.
Brits or French, I always have all of Isles +France
I tried taking Aragonese out early as I needed to do so anyhow and this is the only way to hit Toulouse in reasonable time.
Going to Aquitaine would only make French stronger and that's really undesirable.
I actually haven't been so lucky as to preserve the Cordoba Keep even storming.
My soldiers seem a bit too greed and pillaged everything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
I've actually have had huge stalemate on the Western front once I took Aquitiane and Toulouse this way.
HRE joined in too and became a huge three way brawl.
I switched alliances to Brits and HRE and the French never managed to dominate until two decades later by which time I was already well within the Holy Lands due to North Africa crusade run
I pity the Eggy who had to deal with 3 solid stacks of knights santiago and order foot not to mention the mountains of fanatics who can still eat their peasant hordes alive.
pity, but i prefer, lancers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif (i know it's irrelevant)
On a more relevant point, your high risk strat works, very well
you do realize that v1 CKs can tie lancers in melee, right? and that it's also possible to get v2 CKs by building the master's buildings and in Toulouse while you can't build even v1 lancers?
thus, v2 CKs>v0 lancers end of story.
must say, lancers do look cooler. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Doug-Thompson
06-17-2004, 14:39
Last night, I attacked Navarre on the second turn but didn't attack Aragon on the third turn, waiting for some more units to get trained. (I play huge unit size, so it takes two turns to make a unit.)
I received 1,000 florins from the Pope. I also had an heir mature and a son born.
Cool. So I attack Aragon on the fourth turn and get an excommunication warning. The Aragonian king retreats to the fort. I storm it on the fifth turn, while there's still no mature Aragonian heir with a bodyguard, taking the province. Turn six comes. I get another 1,000 florins from the Pope. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
Go figure.
I have a hunch that the heirs can't mature if they are being sieged.
ie. heir can't mature inside castle.
BTW, I've had heirs mature in a province in which my king was laying siege to the AI and even though I don't comepletely own the province, my heir actually gets the upgrades from there.
Doug-Thompson
06-17-2004, 16:52
Quote[/b] (katank @ June 17 2004,08:43)]I have a hunch that the heirs can't mature if they are being sieged.
ie. heir can't mature inside castle.
Hmmm. That could well be true. I'll watch for that sort of thing in the future.
In all my campaigns, I've never seen a single faction get heirs matured while their king is getting sieged in a castle.
having a mature heir would help them greatly.
having an heir mature woudl require the province to be owned IMHO.
ownership doesn't require full ownership but having the field and sieging the castle would also qualify.
For example, my Polish King sieging the Byz in Const had my maturing heir get silver armor which must have been from Const.'s armor guild even though I didn't storm the castle yet.
Quote[/b] (katank @ June 17 2004,01:53)]you do realize that v1 CKs can tie lancers in melee, right? and that it's also possible to get v2 CKs by building the master's buildings and in Toulouse while you can't build even v1 lancers?
thus, v2 CKs>v0 lancers end of story.
must say, lancers do look cooler. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
exactly, as said before, i'm the master n00b and i like looks so go lancer. You're right about the heir thing though i've read about it somewhere
RollingWave
07-17-2004, 17:14
I like the crusading down north africa option a bit more... it give you a HUGE (and very secured in terms of land border) empire fast... and almost all ur province are wealthy beyond belive (with either good farm/trade or mining)...
all you gotta do is keep buying mercs and putting them into the crusade and it can't really fail... (but you must remember to keep all ur logistics going right... i.e coverting the muslim province... and garrison them with something.... and keep building more inns for mercs. and start a ship lane etc...)
The argonese won't prove to be a tough oppenet as long as you are somewhat vigilent and ally/marry them a bit .....
One of the good part about doing this rout is that it give you excess to huge trade profit very quickly.... and also let you get turcopoles which when combiend with jinnets and the spanish knights is a unstoppable cav force only the mongols could hope to out cav....
After you take the middle east though... you MUST build up ur shipping before pushing on or the risk of civil war mass rebellion and being ganbanged from every side is just too great to take.... (espically them damn sicilian/italian dropping into north africa would be a disastor as u'll probably immediately lose the middle east to mass rebellion this way)
You should keep a low profile and build up a sick force and try to take some rebel lands (ireland... scandanavia) try to keep the trade going as long as possible...
If you don't want to mass merc abuse i think bribing el cid is worth it... he's a instant 8 star on the attack ... and jinnets make good general units etc.... i think a tip though is to make alliance with ur emmisary on the first turn (to the argonese) so he gets a star... it'll raise ur chace or bribing him succesffully without paying 50-100% more considerablly...
gold/gold lancer sounds nice except that they'll probably go to totally exhausted just by walking to the enemy line XD..... so now they just become a expensive katank XD
I still think taking out the Aragonese in the 8 years before the crusade run is a good idea as is overrunning Toulouse through Aragon as that makes victory for the French in the war with the Brits a lot slower and more uncertain.
flip your alliance to French and then sack Aquitaine when the opportunity arises for a nice short border.
RollingWave
07-19-2004, 03:17
I suppose... take on the catholic before u get instant excommunication for getting backstabbed by any other catholic is not a bad idea XD still... castile/valencia and talous/aquantine are still both 2 province border (though yes the later is better if possible.. but i think that could get you more likely drawn into the west europ conflict faster too....
actually no.
I find that when I sack Toulouse, the French win the fight a lot slower and I don't have a unified French on my back, hungering for more territory.
In fact, it's far more likely to degenerate into a three way stalemate with the HRE joining in the party.
getting Southern France also makes sure that whoever wins wouldn't have all of France.
and potentially lancerlike CK's with v2 https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
v2 CKs are actually better. 2 more attack and defence beats 2 more defence and 2 more armor.
buddylee
07-21-2004, 20:30
Long time lurker first time poster. These boards have given me endless amounts of pleasure while dealing witht he drudgery at work, so I thought I would add something for the others.
Spain is one of my favorite factions. I usually play Spain on expert, not GA. I always pump out Peasants from Castille and Jinettes from Leon right off the bat. Get all my provences to the highest tax rate I can without rebellion, as building troops will quickly bankrupt you in Expert. I always take Naverra, Valencia and then Portugal. Portugal is always last, as you will need to leave a large garrison there to keep it from rebelling.
I then mass troops until I run out of money, maily peasants, UM's, and as many Jinettes and archers as I can afford. I do almost no economic building at this point, straigt troop production except for border forts and keeps in the new provinces. After about 10 years or so, I hit the Elmo's in Cordoba. If the army is big enough, they usually just retreat to Morocco, or the castle. I leave a force in Cordoba and next turn attack Morocco, the Elmo's usually retrat again to Algeria. I then split the forces next turn, take Granada, and the Elmo's usually counter attack in Morocco. The Elmo's this early really have very little to counter Jinettes, and is they do, I usually target it first with the archers. They almost always break against my Morocco forces, and are not a threat from then on. I then take Algeria and Tunsia, and stop there. I leave a large force in Tunsia, but leave the Elmo's the last provice as a buffer between me and the Egyptians. I stop at Tunsia as it's the last good money province in North Africa, without fighting the Egyptians.
Backin Europe I ally with everyone except the Argonese. I take my armies back to Castille, and then attack Aragon. At this point it my armies are usually large enough that they instantly retreat, or if they fight, I overwhelm them. If I am lucky the Argonese have taken Toulese, and I get that also. If not, I try and take Toulese as whenever I get the chance. Aragon, Naverra ( the reason I always take it), Castille, and Leon are my troop producing provinces. The all have iron, so they are perfect for this purpose. All other provinces are set up for economy, with 3 start pumping out ships, Portugal (+1 valor on galleys), Valencia, and Algeria usually. I like Toulese mainly to bulid it up for the +1 valor bonus for Chiv Knights. I grab Aquitainne if I can, to give me a buffer for my troop producing provinces.
If this works, and it always does,I hold Aquitaine, Toulese, all of Spain, Morocco, Algeria, and Tunsia. I then turtle to give the AI a chance to develop me an opponent, wait until the 1200's and then attack whomever with a huge navy, and all teched out armies. The game is essentialy over once I get to this point in the early 1120's.
The main problem with this strategy is that it works too well. It also doesn't help the AI come up with a dominate opponent for me. The French usually take western Europe and England, the Bzy or Egyptians battle it out in the east, but neither is a match. I am considering turtling for another 50-100 years until the 1300's just to see what happens. The French usually won't let me wait that long though, and the Bzy or Egyptians can never hold an empire together for that long.
if you do my initial blitz of Aragon and combine that with Crusade run, it works even better and faster.
I franky think you are conservative and I would already consider what you described as fairly hardcore turtling.
my turtling usually end with me thinking can't hurt to take another province, can it?
How long does it take you to reach your turtle phase?
buddylee welcome to the Org https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
buddylee
07-22-2004, 17:48
I guess I am a hardcore turtler https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif I usually reach this stage by about 1125-1130, maybe a bit earlier. I have always been a strategy game perfectionist, I like to build up my economies to maximum production and get everything just perfect. I do sometimes employ the rushes you and others talk about, I am not as good a general as most of you though, at least not yet. I do have a question though. Can I help the AI develop a dominate empire to oppose me? Such as if I pushed in North Africa and took Eqypt and maybe a few other provinces, would that weaken Eqypt to such a point that the Bzy or Turks would find it that much easier to grow? I do find in campaigns where I do not take Toulese or Aquitatine, the French grow considerably stronger. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I suggested my sack of Toulouse through Aragon mainly to curb French power.
good observation.
In most games, the AI French wipes out or close to wipes out the Brits and puts a healthy dent in the HRE.
if allowed to have Southern France, they will do this and often also have a sizeable fleet and turn into a veritable power.
if denied southern france, the outcome is a lot less certain.
RollingWave
07-24-2004, 05:14
I guess... right now in my turk insane/early campaign the french owned all of the british isle and the former HRE land and was crushing italy of the the mainland.... and spain killed the almos... but using ships and agents and jihads i was able to relive the french of the british isles (along with a reemerging brit XD) and the Spaniards of the iberian and eventrually to obliviant... the french are still quiet powerful though but a small civil war and a reemerging HRE is weakening them a bit....
you can slow them destroying brits down by at least a decade for conquering Aquitaine and Toulouse
and perhaps indefinitely if the HRE joins the party early.
Archlight
08-17-2004, 03:35
oops, neglected to read the 2nd page before posting.
nuggetthegreat
06-29-2005, 17:48
Hello,
I am a new member here but i have a huge question.
While playing the spain on the campaigne i was doing great.
I was making about 7000- 8000 florins a year profit. ~D
I decided it would be good to take out all of the people in my pininsula and eventually wiped the almohades at their own game. while conquering north africa :charge: i get this message 'You have 20 years left in this campaign.'
so i decided to go north with my other 5 huge armies.
At about 7 years left in the campaign i left my computer, got some supper, and came back. When i got back i saw a message on my screen that said this province has had a civil war witch side do you choose. of course i chose my side but when i looked all of my provinces and armies had turned to the almohades. the only explanation i could think of was that they had bribed all of my provinces against me. but it is impossible to bribe royalty. im sooooo confused and angry :furious3:
Welcome to the Org Nuggetthegreat :balloon2: :balloon2:
I copied your question over to the Main Hall, maybe it'll get more replies in there
Click on this link
Main Hall (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=831385#post831385)
ichi :bow:
How could all your porvinces get bribed ~:confused:
nuggetthegreat
07-07-2005, 22:18
I have no idea i thik it was civil war but i went back and i am owning as the spanish now ~;) me and aragon are trying to kill each other :duel: . im blowing him to pieces and he is trying to kill all of my generals with his 2 rank 5 grand inquisitors :embarassed: . but ive got many friends ~:grouphug: and the italians are next on my hit list lol :charge: its kinda like a big circle doing the same thing to each civ lol ~:handball:
antisocialmunky
07-12-2005, 16:57
I agree with Katank's method of going for the Aragonese. However, in early, I usually take out Cordoba turn 1 or 2 and push them all the back to the other side of Gibralter. I take the province there to consolidate in that direction. Then I bash the Aragonese and Portugal. I get crusade happy and take everything to the Sinai with them within not all that many turns.
I got bored in that campaign and quit ... huge numbers of Santiagos get boring.
Librarian
12-19-2005, 16:16
Played Spain with 1.0 version, GA, hard.
I reached in year 1200 or so having exterminate Almohads (was too easy i think). i had a good income, around 1500-2000 per year. then next day i installed VI expansion (2.0) and realise, unless was my misestimation that my income rocketed and i have been still earning around 5000 per year. Is it VI more trade advantage style or i think so?
and why really Spain consider as hard level? i have got around 25 provinces at year 1285 with 300.000 florins and 6-8000 income, is maybe the easiest nation i have picked up to today.
Seabourch
07-03-2009, 06:36
Well for Spain I opted for a cavalry army since their infantry is crap until you get some fedual foot knights.Hire Mercenary spearmen when you take on the Portugese and the Moors as you can't recoup all the cash by sacking rebel towns in Spain.
My army consists of about 8 Jinetes which pepper the enemy with their javelins until they whittled down to nothing more than a few bloodied men wetting their armour. Throw in the general and some mailed knights and you have yourselves an army.
I then invaded Pamploma and slayed their general, sacking it to get some cash. Then the Pope told me I was naughty and should stay away from them. Which I did. For a while.
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