Danish

[Cheetah]

early

[Cheetah]

high

[Cheetah]

late

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:47)]early
MTW/VI, GA-goal style.

To create a Danish superpower early on trade and thus ship- building is the key to a sucessful campaign. Since I tend to kick back and relax from the conquest part of the game this guide is not for the land-hungry player.

Main goals:
1. Trade, ships to connect your Scandinavian kingdom.
2. How to afford military build-up.
3. More lands and the need for conquest. Most players argue to go for HRE early but I disagree since I found that most of the time you´ll lack the funds to maintain this hot-zone with troops and it´s far more important, if you want to meet the GA goals, to dominate Baltic trade.

This is how I usually start the game:
1087 AD Build keep and more troops in Den.
1090 AD Take Swe. Que up watchtower, fort, +20% farm upgrade and coppermine.
1095 AD Take Norway and que up like in Swe. Build peasants as gov´s in Swe.
1100 AD Add trading-posts and ports to the que´s in Swe and Nor. And shift peasant-gov´s to Nor while build vikings in Swe to re-inforce you main army. Que 3 ships in Denmark.

Around 1102-04AD I tend to get my first insufficiant funds messages so I stop all buildings except the gov- production. It´s really important to not stop this until you reach a 5 acc govc in each prov. You might even be down to 100 fl/ year. The status now is that all three provs should have fort, watch-tower, +20% farming, mines, ports and trading-posts. You should also have 2-3 ships and a full stack-army.

Here is where I differ from most players that go for HRE to expand the kingdom. I make peace with HRE and go for all the rebels around the Baltic sea; Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuania, Livonia. I appoint high acc gov´s (5) to theese provs and don´build anything, yet, except a watchtower and a fort (to retreat to if attacked).
Between around 1105-1110 AD I conquer theese four provs with my only army and builds a port in Pom to be able to get back to Den after the conquest. Now, I prioritize up-grading farms and mines in Den, Swe and Nor to get closer to being able to produce troops there and add income which I then re-invest in income up-grades in the Baltic sea provs which I the can use for producing more troops in Scandinavia. By now Den is pumping out ships and you can build additional troops in both Swe and Nor. Around 1115Ad you would be able to make 1000 fl/ year in profit and by 1125Ad you´ll double that to 2000 fl/ year.

From here you can either sit back and play strictly GA-style or take out Novgorod, conquer some HRE-provs, conquer Scotland/ Ireland etc. By 1137AD you should be making around 4.000 fl/ year in profit and even 10 years later you should have around 30-40.000 fl. in the bank. Good Luck

[katank]

an alternative is to instead of attcking HRE to go for the English and take all of the British Isles and Flanders.

that way, you have two 1 province borders and this wouldn't increase until you go for the Baltic rim.

It seems inevitable that you come into conflict with the Polish though as they want the Baltic provinces as much as you do.

[Powermonger]

My early strategy is pretty similar to PseRamesses. I queue watchtowers and keep upgrade immediately on first turn in Denmark and start pumping out about five units of vikings. I usually attack Sweden on the second turn (1088), forcing the rebels to retreat to Norway with my King and two units of vikings.

Once Sweden is taken I queue watchtowers, copper mine and fort, I leave the farm upgrade till later as I'm more concerned with containing costs and spending as little money as possible for quick expansion. I keep pumping out vikings until I have about 10 units of them.

Usually I leave Norway till later as I don't want to waste troops taking the province and garrisoning it. Once Denmark has upgraded to a Keep I start building the Shipyard and start pumping out longboats. As soon as the first ship is built I rush Pomerania and take it before Poland. Sometimes they get it first much to my annoyance. Once my second ship is built I put it into the Baltic sea and try to get Finland before the Novgorods, like the Polish, sometimes they beat me to it too.

Once they are secure I take Prussia, Lithuania and Livonia, building only watchtowers,docks, mines and forts. I don't upgrade to border forts till later as by this stage my funds are getting rather low and I'd rather put the money towards expanding my ships. I also only build trading posts in Lithuania, Sweden, Denmark and Pomerania as they give the best bang for buck. I don't do anymore upgrades until I start getting a better return in trade.

As soon as I have four ships and can reach Ireland, I conduct a viking raid on it and secure it before one of the other factions do and then try to take Scotland next.

From here on (usually about 1125) I sit back and concentrate on building up my provinces and economy, taking the odd German province if any rebellions arise too. Once I am feeling more confident I either take out the Novgorods or pick on the Germans.

I usually specialise my provinces like this:

Norway: Spears
Sweden: Swords
Denmark: Ships & Missile
Pomerania: Militia/Halberdiers
Prussia: Ships and Siege
Lithuania: Cavalry
Livonia: Strategy units
Finland: Strategy units
Ireland: Ships
Scotland: Whatever

That should be enough to get people up and going.

[Seven.the.Hun]

hmm, well i am always too tempted to take all of british isles as quickly as possible, so that's what i go for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[katank]

@opeth, I suggest at least 20% in sweden as farms pay off faster than mines and sweden is a good agricultural province.

also, norways has a valour bonus for vikings and it shouldn't be used for spears.

thralls make reasonable spear before you can get feudal sergeants and I don't see any need for FMAA when V1 viking are better as well as huscarles.

also, border forts are useful as the +10 loyalty actually reduces costs in the long run.

[Kristaps]

EARLY: NORWAY ISSUE...

Hmm, taking Norway is actually my #1 priority when playing Danish in Early. Norway has +1 Valor bonus to vikings... And, you need only a fort to get those guys meaner guys with axes... :)

I Attack Sweden in year 1087: just with my King and 1 unit of vikings. The AI still retreats... :)

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 20 2004,11:43)]@opeth, I suggest at least 20% in sweden as farms pay off faster than mines and sweden is a good agricultural province.
Actually, there was a calculation here in the forum which showed that mines have the shortest payback from all upgrades...

[Powermonger]

I still build a farm and mining complex in Sweden but not in the first 20 years or so. The 1500 florins I'd spend on these improvements I'd rather put towards a keep upgrade in another province and start pumping out ships for trade.

I try to avoid 'insufficient funds' messages, hence my choice to not go for farm upgrades immediately and concentrate more on establishing trade routes first, especially as the Danish don't own a handful of provinces at the start like other factions do. If I am playing one of the other more province rich factions (like England or HRE) then I will invest earlier in farming then I do with the Danish.

Never really crossed my mind about the +1 valour bonus in Norway, maybe I'll grab that right after Sweden next Danish game I play and see how things go.

[katank]

It's hard to say whether to take norway.

if I rush, then yes as though it's not economically viable to garrison, the early boost to vikings make them better than FMAA and they also get AP.

if turtling, it's not worth it and I get trade going before norway as it's a real trade province and isn't worth anything before trade.

it's also no easy task to kill off 6 vikings early on.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 20 2004,20:20)]It's hard to say whether to take norway.

if I rush, then yes as though it's not economically viable to garrison, the early boost to vikings make them better than FMAA and they also get AP.

if turtling, it's not worth it and I get trade going before norway as it's a real trade province and isn't worth anything before trade.

it's also no easy task to kill off 6 vikings early on.
I take Norway a couple years after I get a fort in Sweden. My way of killing the six norge vikings: about 3-4 vikings from Denmark, the king and his two heirs (he has two by the time Swedens has a fort), a couple woodsmen from Sweden (cost savings: they cost only 22 per year to feed) and 3-4 archers from Denmark. Once in Norway: I pull them one by one using the archers: thin them out with arrows, charge with a viking unit and crush with the royals from the rear.

At the time, when I attack Norway, Denmark has only one spearman unit garrisoning it and Sweden has no garrison except the woodsman unit coming out of the training camp the year after. I am allied with Germans by this time also.

As to garrisoning Norway: I don't know what you guys are doing, but I've never had problems with it... The first year after I crush the initial 6 viking rebels there, I leave a couple woodsmen units garrisoning it. After I get the guard tower, border tower: it's only one thrall unit - basta. In the initial years after taking it, I might have a rebellion, but it's usually easy to crush and profitable too. With a fort and militia qurters up it's a loyal province of the kingdom in no time, same as denmark and sweden.

Of course, in the initial years, I am taking some risks (i.e., Germans might attack Denmark while the king is campaigning in Norway, or someone might land a sea-born company in the province before I have my fleet establish control of the region).

I will try to post the exact sequence one of these days here ;)

My typical building sequence for Norway is:

1. A fort (I don't build the guard towers first since I like rebellions: I just hear that jinxy sound of money coming into my coiffers as soon as I see the rebellion popup): I just cannot wait to get those +1 valor vikings out.

2. A trader and a port (by this time I'd have longboats coming out of Denmark already).

3. Keep and a church (morale boost for the vikings); then an armorer.

4. I stubbornly refuse to use landsmen and huscarles... I guess, I like the Danish in the Early, the way they were before the VI expansion :)))

[katank]

it's not too bad to kill the vikings there but still, the garrison takes costs as I don't use rebellions for money although perhaps I should.

landsmenn aren't worth it over vkings esp. since you get a discount for vikigns and they are only 133 while landsmenn are 200.

the +1 viks from norway also are superior.

I find it difficult to believe that you forgo huscarles though as they are the one of the best infantry units around and beat CMAA easily.

[RollingWave]

Take scandanavia fast..... and then take the province directly under denmark (saxon something I have a chinese version of hte game:/) to act as a buffer zone and also give you to option to strike at a huge number of province when you want to.

Then try to build up and take finland/scotland/ireland when possible.... invading the british isle is usually the easist and simplist.. like others said u still have one boder that way... now you have 3 border along with flanders and finland (though u can choose to expand a bit in this direction ... or hold it with a small garrison) almost all ur land have good trade, go for it... once u link up ur trade rout u'll be so flithy rich you can do anything... I usually just sit back and wait for chances to take rebel lands. then when ur rdy overrun western europe and later the iberians fast. then go through north africa as the hoard should be helping u tear up east europe and mid east... clear them up using stratigic units and then at last take the italian penensulas and the damn pope.

[katank]

finland? it's a pretty worthless province IMHO.

Novgorod would be better.

sure they have jedi boyar generals but your huscarles can maul them.

[RollingWave]

Finland has trading and is extremely easy to take usually.... that's why I take it... if i can get my shot at norvogod then yes I go for that too as it's a pretty rich province and also have trading....

[katank]

it's only 1 trade good though and it's not very loyal.

it also serves little strategic purpose unlike novgorod or other baltic provinces.

after securing novgorod, livonia, lithuania, etc. then go after finland.

[RollingWave]

That works too, except that I like to start with finland as a. it tend to be badly defended and b. it's on the road to novorgod anyway :P

Anyway in my current danish (early/GA/hard) campaign i'm still in second place in GA score with about 90 years left:/, spain is in the lead cause it managed to go all the way from the iberians to the middle east (thus completeling a **** load of GA goals) while I have all of the baltic and acturally every costal province along the northern part of the map and most of the stepps ... but now I'm out to kill Spain as obvioulsy I nee to kill them if I want to win by GA score (I can crush the rest of them too I guess but easier to just kill spain :P)

So now I'm using the scorch earth hide and seek tactic against them landing mutliple assuals on the iberian and than running from one province to another... working really well as I manage to take out a HUGE amount of their troops this way as their forces split and manage to squeeze out gold in the process to help finace the war (having trouble running trade route now everyone is against me and I have to keep 3 ship in every water in the med to not get sinked http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif )

Anyway I now have the iberians under my belt and probably win anyway thx to homeland score diff....

[ah_dut]

hey mate try medmod then your danish longboats get sunk by the smart AI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[katank]

In medmod, I doubt the Danes can even get a single ship into the med

[Powermonger]

I only try and get Finland early because I'd rather have it then let them stink'n Novgorods get it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[yalpe]

I tried a different approach to make the conquest of Norway much easier. This was on normal difficulty so I don't know if it would work on harder modes but I will try in the future for sure.

In 1087, attack Sweden with your king alone. This way they AI won't retreat and you will get to fight them. If you win, it is -120 vikings to fight in Norway and it isn't really hard to win 21 vs 120 on normal. I proceeded like this :

Close in to the first squad of enemy vikings so they charge you, then tell your knights to charge to the left and begin a flanking motion until you are behind their general's squad, and charge them, this way, the first squad will be stuck behind the general's one and they won't attack, soon you should kill the general and their moral at the same time making them rout. Fall back a little and charge the other squad immediatly. You should win this with a few casualities (I had 6 deaths) but they should rout pretty fast. You can then capture the rest of the vikings.

Now you will get to fight 240 vikings instead of 360 in norway.

[katank]

that's quite interesting.

will give that a whirl

it's a bit cheesy though to exploit the jedi general and replenshing king unit but I do that all the time.

having 240 viks to face is certainly easier than 360. good tip http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ah_dut]

Sorry katank haven't read this for a while, as the danes in scandinavia you CAN'T get a boat to scandinavia. you can't go past portrugal. problem solved. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[LestaT]

I do not know if this is a bug or what but many times i've played the danes , when in the later stages it's hard to produce male heirs. When I was almost conquered the whole world my line ended... :-(

[katank]

it's weird but I think you need to be really proactive about plying for princesses.

at least it isn't as bad as this guy who had his king die in 1453 and the line with it.

[ah_dut]

.unfreeze. is the only cheat code i sanction for the above reason

[katank]

so true, me too.

I hate having my line wiped out.

However, this also requires limiting.

One must restrict to at most 1 .unfreeze. per monarch or one can build an army of RKs really fast by doing this every turn.

[ah_dut]

too true,
OT Katank you've got nearly 15 fliiping posts a day

[katank]

yep. I think use it only if you don't already have an heir.

BTW, I have no life so 15 posts a day, meh

you have 10+ a day. I didn't have that many when I had your total. trust me, post count per day goes up as time goes on.

[ah_dut]

I know, mine goes up by 1/a day every week it seems

[TheBMeistor!]

I think taking Norway early is a very good idea.

Early rush seems to be my favorite tactic, especially with the Danes. I prefer not to get anything started with HRE though as they never seem to disturb my border and I don't want to extend what i need to defend from them anyways.

This leaves the quickest invasion outside of Scandinavia to be Pomerania. I have found that Poland will already be here if you wait too long and then it will be 3 more years before you can invade another Baltic province. Because of that I like to make the Danish Boat Rush.

Tech straight to longboats.....start with a Keep then shipbuilder. Your first boat is in the water in 15 years. This leaves you quite a bit of time so I always unite Scandinavia. Building a large army can empty the bank fast and you wont be making a ton of money on farms or anything to support an entire empire.

The King only strategy to invade Sweden works for me every time. I turn off auto tax and set it to max to cause rebellions every turn. Keep building up Vikings with a few archers in Denmark and send them in to assist the King in suppressing rebellions. I usually make 500 or so florins a turn from this alone.

Eventually you will have a large army and you may as well invade Norway because you are paying the support costs for the army you have already made and the v1 vikings are great.

From there if you are lucky Pomerania will be rebel still when your first boat hits the water and you wont have to wait 3 more years to start taking the baltic.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (TheBMeistor @ June 21 2004,07:42)]I think taking Norway early is a very good idea.

Early rush seems to be my favorite tactic, especially with the Danes. I prefer not to get anything started with HRE though as they never seem to disturb my border and I don't want to extend what i need to defend from them anyways.

This leaves the quickest invasion outside of Scandinavia to be Pomerania. I have found that Poland will already be here if you wait too long and then it will be 3 more years before you can invade another Baltic province. Because of that I like to make the Danish Boat Rush.

Tech straight to longboats.....start with a Keep then shipbuilder. Your first boat is in the water in 15 years. This leaves you quite a bit of time so I always unite Scandinavia. Building a large army can empty the bank fast and you wont be making a ton of money on farms or anything to support an entire empire.

The King only strategy to invade Sweden works for me every time. I turn off auto tax and set it to max to cause rebellions every turn. Keep building up Vikings with a few archers in Denmark and send them in to assist the King in suppressing rebellions. I usually make 500 or so florins a turn from this alone.

Eventually you will have a large army and you may as well invade Norway because you are paying the support costs for the army you have already made and the v1 vikings are great.

From there if you are lucky Pomerania will be rebel still when your first boat hits the water and you wont have to wait 3 more years to start taking the baltic.
Norway offers way too low returns I find

[Comtempt]

While it is true that Norway offers little in farming and trade, the higher valor Vikings trained there can be used, once Norway is put down, to conquer such places as Flanders. In this way Norway pays it self off with the troops produced there.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (Comtempt @ June 25 2004,06:50)]While it is true that Norway offers little in farming and trade, the higher valor Vikings trained there can be used, once Norway is put down, to conquer such places as Flanders. In this way Norway pays it self off with the troops produced there.
true, true true, i forgot about, that, I like v1 vikings, whoops the hell out of v0 fmaa, don't forget, with trade there are 3 yes 3 huscarle producing provs

[katank]

yep, armor is needed though for the viks so on the way to building huscarles, armorer shoudl come before the swordsmith.

as Danes you have no need for FMAA. viks have 4 AP attack which is absolutely amazing. charge them into the rear of some enemy armor and watch in amazement. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[RollingWave]

Yes Vikings money for money wise beat the crap outta most things that's not on a horse :P .... and at least against the catholics/orthodox factions their's really no ground unit that can seriously beat them badly (men at arms lose due to armor piercing... while they have enough attack and defense to beat most spear units...)

Against muslims though you might have some problem against their low armor high attack units... but generally you should still do ok.... Vikings with Chivaric sergents are a very price effective and reliable ground line that Danes should rely on all game long....

Vikings are one of my fav unit though :P (along with AUM, camels, and some of the turkish units)

[katank]

huscarles are even better and can maul pretty much anything they can contact with and are amazing. Ever seen even one unit of those flank a battleline?

I saw that battle line literally vaporize as those huscarles tore that army from flank to flank.

vikings are simply the budget version of huscarles.

[Comtempt]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 05 2004,10:47)]vikings are simply the budget version of huscarles.
[QUOTE]


Yes that is true, but for the first forty years or so the Danes don't have a lot of the cash coming in so the budget version, which is basically the same expect weaker can tear through the weaker vanilla spear men and FMAA, and peasants for that matter. In the first couple years the vikings dominate all forms of combat for the land grab and can defeat most anything. I personally find Vikings more useful as they are available in the high and late periods, while the Huscarles are not. They also only need a fort, so newly conquered territory can reform the heavily damaged units. So yes the huscarles ar better units, but once the clock hits 1205, poof While the budget version of huscarles can still be made, and mass produced. Kinda rambled at the end didn't I? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif Hehehe

[katank]

vikings are also early only.

I don't know what you mean.

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
My style offers two ways for Danish domination.

The first is the calm way: Unite Scandinavia/Baltic asap and start building up. Get the strongest navy in the seas. Trade will earn you fortunes, so that you'll be able to buil/tech up easily. Make use of the opportunities such as bribingth rebel provinces in strategically important locations and the victory will be yours with some patience.

The other is the blitzkrieg way: Unite Scandinavia/Baltic asap and get the strongest navy alike. But crash the HRE and Russians ain the first decades and get your feet on the British Isles. Once HRE, England and France are out, the northern half of the map is yours.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
_

[RollingWave]

Personally you really should not take the HRE early.... it leave you with way too many open borders while the Danes do not get THAT many good generals to afford so many front...

I usually take scandanavia than the province directly under denmark then build up... then take the british isles.... after that I usually just build a lot and maybe go after the novorgods ... the only downside is that goign into the stepps early have one very obvious bad consequences :/... but if ur playing GA you have to go near the stepps anyway... so it really depends on you....

[katank]

well, don't knock out HRE but taking Saxony is good idea.

British Isles and Flanders would only be 1 additional border and uniting the steppes with Lithuania/Kiev/Georgia would also mean little borders.

[Comtempt]

To Katank: The Vikings I was referring to are the Vikings available just with a fort. Not the Landsmen or Carls or Huscarales, just plain Vikings. They are available in early, high, and late. I tested this my self by starting 3 games in early, high and late. Vikings (as in the unit), costing 131, were available in each era.

[RollingWave]

Katank... but taking the stepps before 1230 is always a bit problematic XD... espically when ur the biggest empire .. but then again at least the danes can use arbs unlike turks... still it would be a very long and tiresome fight. (or make that 2 very long and tiresome fight XD)

[katank]

@ rollingwave, horde battles are fun.

as long as your have your packs of huscarles and loads of arbs, mongols don't stand a chance.

@contempt, I stand corrected, I checked the unit prod file and they are all periods, just the vanilla viks though.

[ah_dut]

katank got something wrong, impossible https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Comtempt]

Yeah just Vanilla. They good for flanking heavily armored units in late through, and can be used as reliable cannon fodder because they are so easy to make. Many a time have I use those vanilla Vikings for assaults Castles and such.

[RollingWave]

v1 vikings aren't THAT much worse than v0 huscals... they have same attack/moral with 1 less charge... (i'm not sure how the defense thing work... it says huscal have 4 def while viking have 1 but viking get a shield bonus of 2... i seem to recall some shield bonus work for both melee and ranged and i'm under the impression that vikings are one of those....)

And they're a **** load cheaper and easier to get anyway.

[katank]

vanilla viks with v1 have a defence of 1. they have a large shield which provides 2 to armor and defence frontally.

for rear hits etc, there is no bonus.

the huscarle can't use their large shields in melee but the vikings can.

so frontally, v1 viks are only 1 defence off v0 huscarles.

[Doug-Thompson]

I'd rather take face a charge from knights with Norwegian Vikings than with feudal sergeants, as I said on another thread.

I'm not a slugfest infantry kind of player, but even I hire every mercenary Viking I can find.They're dirt cheap for what you get.

[katank]

really? 3 defence isn't much but I guess its morale is enough.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 19 2004,16:27)]really? 3 defence isn't much but I guess its morale is enough.
I should have mentioned that I hire merc vikings when I play Muslim factions. I like to send the vikings in to keep the one good Catholic Chivalric Men at Arms unit occupied while the Ghazis or whatever are getting in position to charge.

[katank]

actually I do too.

they are some of the heavier troops that muslims need (with exception of the almos).

when I'm Danes or Nov, spamming them from forts everywhere is ultra effective.

in fact, some strats like beeline for Const. when early Nov, is only doable by virtue of spammable viks from every fort.

[HicRic]

Is everyone sure about those Vikings? I'm playing VI 2.01 and I'm in High with the Danes, and cannot train even vanilla Vikings. I started the game in Early, though-perhaps that makes a difference? https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I used to be able to build them in Early, but not any more..

[katank]

pretty sure. the unit prod files says they are all eras and booting up a high game I can build them.

I don't know if starting from early makes a difference. they aren't even region restricted.

[HicRic]

That's really strange. I 100% cannot build them in High after starting in Early with the Danes. I haven't ever edited the files or anything. ~:dizzy: Oh well.

[katank]

have you tried using gnome to look at the unit prod file?

vanilla viks should be buildable.

you are using VI2.01, right?

try starting a high danish campaign yourself and see if you can build em.

[HicRic]

I can build vanilla vikings if I start a new game with Danes in High. Odd. Perhaps I was mistaken before, and I could build them in my other game as well. Ah well, never mind. I've since finished the game and moved onto another one, so I can't reload the save or anything. Never mind!

[historycaesar]

Taking Lithuana then Kiev. Build a Russian empire!

[MerlinusCDXX]

Viks are AWESOME in early, esp with weapons upgrades. I tend to send em on a training/ equip tour from Norway (bonus) to Sweden (iron for weapon upgrd) and then out to combat. I also like to get the armor upgrade in Sweden to avoid spending extra cash on Norway as I only use it as an econ/trader prov (money's real tight as Denmark, gotta streamline or you go broke)

[katank]

ummm, I'd disagree as the cheap longboats that you should get into the water ASAP should establish trade routes enough to make your country rich.

Also, I usually focus military buildings and armor in relatively poor provinces like norway so that richers provinces like sweden can build up their farming and trade faster.

[ah_dut]

but keep pumping those ironsmiths out though

[katank]

sweden should only build huscarle facilities and metalsmiths before economic upgrades are maxed.

[McDoogle]

I find it easiet to take sweden first. i build vikings to protect denamrk incase the germany become cockey, and i than set up sweden as my ship builder, i build as many longboats as i can and when i have the men i take Norway, like has been mentioned before they give you a huge bonus for vikings.

i take ireland next and use thier gallowglasses to help fend off the scotish highlanders, i slowly take control of english when ihave the men to assualt thier castles, or i will be excommunicated by the pope.

i take over england and flanders, keep a strong garrison in flanders and a strong navy and you should be able to look after yourself, besides if all falls with the Germans you can retreat to England and prepare for revenge.

try and get the pope on your side (allaince). he will favour you over your enemies and if you build churches early he will award you for your "acts of god"?

What mainly sucks is that the danes cant mount a crusade. :furious3: .if they could than they could easily rule the world.

[Togakure]

Initially when I played the Danes, I concentrated on Sweden and Norway first, but I found that income was always a very limiting problem until well into the 1100s. In my more recent campaigns I took Saxony first, and then concentrated on taking all the provinces that border Saxony: Pomerania, Brandenburg, Franconia, and Friesland, in that order. I would build watchtowers in each to improve loyalty, and then forts in all of them so I could produce vikings wherever I needed them, rapidly. Then I would attempt to make peace with the HRE. The HRE often gets hit by several factions at once early on, so often enough they are willing to make peace.

I then keep a large army in Saxony and build watchtowers and a motte and bailey for all the forts in the surrounding provinces, keeping only a small garrison in each. If one is attacked, I withdraw to my fortifications and use the large army in Saxony to repulse the attack. As soon as income allows, I improve the farmlands in each province by 20%, the more lucrative ones to 40%. This "star pattern" defensive approach allows you to effectively defend several provinces without having to maintain large garrisons in each.

I've noticed that conquering a lot tends to increase Influence and thus will often improve the command rating of my heirs when they mature. Early on I tend to use mostly vikings, supplemented by a few archers, and spearmen in regions where neighboring factions have cavalry. In the early years I will usually build only one spearmaker and one bowyer (spearmaker in Franconia for an eventual weapons bonus, bowyer in Saxony; I build a palace and courts in Denmark so I can produce extra Royals as needed).

Support cost is important and doesn't seem to be discussed much (just as cash flow seems to be often overlooked in favor of sound long term investments). Vikings are only 37 florins to support, as are archers. Spearmen are 50. Militia are 30. Bang for the buck, vikings are a great bargain, particularly when you factor in that they only require a fort to train. Hence, I will often garrison my inner and outlying provinces with a couple of militia units for their lesser cost, and defend them with a large, viking-heavy central army in Saxony.

After taking these provinces, I take Sweden. Sweden is a trade cash cow once you get it going. I usually focus my early expenditures on developing fleet production in Denmark (after palace and courts), trade in Sweden, and troops other than vikings and royals in Saxony and Franconia. After taking Sweden, if I can't afford to bribe the army in Norway, I'll assemble a strong army and attack. The +1 valor vikings from Norway are very nice, but aren't really necessary early on. Once I've secured Norway, Sweden, Saxony, Pomerania, Brandenburg, Franconia, and Friesland, I'll suspend expansion for a while and focus on improving agriculture, building ships, establishing trade, and improving my troop production capability, in that order. Then, assuming I'm not being attacked by a significant force, I'll turn my attention either to England or to the rebels in Livonia and Lithuania.

When I employ this strategy it's usually the Polish who attack me first (aside from the HRE trying feebly to hold onto their northern lands), as they tend to covet Pomerania and Brandenburg. The Pope tends to get upset if I attack them, even in defense (though he doesn't seem to care when I attack the HRE), so what I usually do is repulse their attack, and then follow through by attacking and sacking both Silesia and Poland before withdrawing back into my lands. This cripples them, yielding a nice amount of cash, and they don't usually attack again for a very long time, if at all.

Building a "kamikaze" stack of vikings to use for raiding can be very effective. By destroying a rival's defenses, infrastructure and agriculture while maintaining your own, you keep your technological edge, particularly in troop effectiveness (vikings). If you let your neighbors develop the better troop types, then you have to keep up in the arms race as well, and your vikings eventually lose their effectiveness. The longer you can prevent your neighbors from developing the better troops, the longer the viking remains the unit to be feared in the region. Early on, when everyone else is producing peasants, militia, spearmen, archers, and horsemen, vikings tend to rock if you manage them wisely on the battlefield.

[Oshidashi]

I think Ive read every post carefully now but I haven't seen anyone metioning the effectiveness of bribing rebel armies. You people must be able to build that skinny guy called diplomat or what.

Secondly you mostly talk about what regions you take without metioning that you carefully have to watch international politics.

If you don't take the above in account, then you can still manage the Danes quite well if you FFS build a very large fleet and use the god given Vikings.

My perfect Danish game went roughly as following:

Take the beautiful land of Sweden with it's richness on all fronts (the chiqs there are also quite adorabel) first within no longer then two turns. As someone (sry forgot) posted earlier, they almost always retreat. Then bribe the 5 viking units at norway, there's probably a wonderful governor or general in the army to. Getting those wonderfully men with great acumen and/or command is a real nice asset of bribing.

While your conquering the north, you send your lovely daughter to marry a drunken german prince. This alliance is important and you should act by your thrustfull word by stationing your primary army in sweden. This will make the Germans keep their forces in Saxony low. I recommend you try to keep the same amount of men as they have in Saxony, in Denmark, but of a better quality ofcourse (e.g. vikings and royal knights or a combination of troops which your good at fighting with).

Domesticly you start building the following:

Denmark: farm 20%, Spearmaker, watchtowers, 40%, keep, harbor, shipwright, merchant, 60%......
Sweden: Only financial shizzle till 60% and between building that also build an armourer and ofcourse the watchtower and improvement.
Norway: Financial shizzle primarly but after you have a keep and the 40% you should make this nation ready for building some fleet to.
Retrain as many units as you can with the armourer in Sweden.

This all will make you a king of a small but efficient empire. In politics, you concentrate on making as many alliances as you can. Early in the game choose out of England, The Novgorods or The Polish to become NOT allied with. This gives you an important backdoor for if my tactics won't work and although this is unlikely, I have seen everything happen in MTW politics, it's far more dynamic or unpredictable then at RTW.

The alliances you make add to the valour of your skinny diplomat and this will make your bribes cheaper. Yes, you should bribe your way into the powerhouse of Europe, and eventually beyond.

As soon as you have 2 or 3 ships and half an army stack full in Sweden at least you can think of expanding to the mainland or England. By this time probably one of the two baltic states have been conquered by another faction, driving away the (remaining) rebels of the one state towards the other. Bribe this army as soon as you can! If there are two stacks of rebel units bribe the one with the best governors in it. You also have to send in your swedish army as it's eager to fight being upgraded with their first armor rate which makes them delicious to fight with in the early days. If there's only one stack, you are lucky and immediately ready for your next expansion.

Europe will likely by that time be a battlefield where English, French and Germans will be killing and exhausting eachother. You are still concentrating on the fleet which goal it is to reach the straits of Gibralter and collect uge trade reveneus. Because the 3 nations I named are killing each other and occupying territories with too little men to keep law and order, they create new rebel armies and countries and even sometimes end up with a civil war which triggers the unstoppable expansion of your empire. Bribe the armies you think are worthwile to add to your army and occupy the territorries with enough man to create a stable environment for economic growth. Occupying the coastal territorries with enough men won't be a problem as you have a dominant fleet and you can transport to anywhere you want. Don't forget to build harbors so you can continue to profit from the easy transportantion.

After conquering a few provinces you'll probably have....I'll finish this later as the klock seems to have jumped hours to the next day while I was lost at The Org....

[dgfred]

Last couple of post have had some excellent advice ~:thumb: . Danes
are much fun to play.

[drone]

Last couple of post have had some excellent advice ~:thumb: . Danes are much fun to play.The Danes are a blast. On Early, I like to see how far I can get before I need missile troops, just because! ~D

Vikings/huscarles, with support from feudal sergeants, mounted sergeants, and highlanders/gallowglasses can handle pretty much anything in early. feudals absorb charges and hold the line, mounteds chase down opposing archers, the HL/GG swords make for a good reserve/spear counter/chase unit/cannon fodder, and the axemen crush all comers. No flying pointy sticks necessary.

[RollingWave]

The Danes are deceptively simple faction..... it looks hard at start.. they have 1 province with a big HRE under them... but the HRE will never really have enough to hit you while you can be filthy rich very quickly.

As others have said, just take Scadanavia ASAP, and then start building ur ships, you might op to take the province right under denmark as it still makes you a 1 province defense anyway and giving a blow to the HRE early never really hurts ur later expansion plans.

Get ur ships going ASAP , then start looking for opportunities, usually the easiest way to do it is to take Ireland then start going for England.

If you want you could also expand towards the east into Russian land as the Novogrod are really weak...... but the downside is you have to deal with the Mongols this way .......

The smarter way is probably build up ur economy after taking England and totally spread out ur ships and ensure total naval domination, wait for the others to wear themself out.... by mid Chivaric time when the Hoard should have ripped apart the eastern factions and most of western europe either killed each other or the Almo train rolled over them...... strike!!!! i highly suggest going for the Iberian area first, it's easy to defend and give you great access either way, and more importantly whoever's holding it is probably the strongest faction running around in the west anyway. then try to connect ur empire in Europe steam roll over whats left of the HRE and French English in a 3 way strike.

now it's only a matter of steamrolling....... to deal with the Mongols the easiest way is probably just mass arbies with lots of Chiv sergents.....

[The Emperor]

A strategy that I've often used (and found to work ~;) ) is a) unite Scandinavia, b) take Britain, Ireland and Flanders, c) make a HUGE navy and then hit Sicily, the thee Byz islands and (if you can) Constantinople and Outremer. After this, the medieval world is at your whim ~D

[sbroadbent]

A strategy that I've often used (and found to work ~;) ) is a) unite Scandinavia, b) take Britain, Ireland and Flanders, c) make a HUGE navy and then hit Sicily, the thee Byz islands and (if you can) Constantinople and Outremer. After this, the medieval world is at your whim ~D

This is a strategy I use, almost in this order. I somewhat ignored sicily in the past though, as I was never in a particular habit to check each province for resources or trade goods. It's now on my list of places to hit. As to Crete, Rhodes, and Cyprus they don't have any trade goods or resources, so I find they are generally better left alone so that they can be used to sell your trade goods to them and make even more money. They might be useful for troop deployment.

As the Danes, don't forget Portugal. Caravels get +1 Valor when trained there. No wonder I had difficulties with some Spanish fleets. In addition, it has 2 trade goods, and as I recall, it picks up 2 more late in the game (not very useful, but still worthy to note).

I'd add Venice to the list, and Antioch and Tripoli if it can be managed. With those and also not forgetting Lithuania and Livona will give you the greatest trade benefit (not to mention each being in different parts of the regions giving you decent troop deployment grounds. It does mean a larger number of provinces that need to be defended.

In my latest couple games (1 Conquest and 1 Glorious Achievements) with the Danes, the Turks collapsed in the first one leaving Antioch to the rebels (which I promptly picked up (I could've also picked up Tripoli, but I didn't realize that additional trade goods would become available, so I ignored it). For the next dozen years or so there wasn't much threatsa the other neighboring provinces were also in the hands of the rebels (it was only when the Spanish swept through Africa, and then the Byzantines pushed them back the other way that there was the potential for danger. They never bothered because I maintained atleast 3-4 legions in the province at any one time. At a moment's notice I could recall the troops if I wanted to, but was never necessary.

In my current game, the Italians collapsed and I picked up Venice. Sweet catch, especially with some of the other factions around at the time. In this same game, I also bribed the army at Constantinople (starting a big war with the Byzantines which I ended up coming out of reasonably well, and still holding onto Constantinople. I'll have to try the same with Antioch ;)

In addition in this game, I assassinated the spanish King just after he took the throne (thereby he did not have any heirs and the faction collapsed, leaving alot of territory... only Byzantine came close as a major power).

Finally there is Khazar which can be picked up after the Golden Horde has blown their load and is on their way to oblivion.

Is it just me or does the Mongols go from a heard of Mountain Lions, to a couple Leopards with Laryngitis. It could just be the Viking Invasion expansion that I have, but I haven't seen the Horde do much rampaging (it hasn't affected the Byzantines tactics any, other than losing a few provinces). Likewise the Almohads have made a poor showing with the Spanish dominating in most of the games I've seen. In addition (and this is not something I've seen before I got the Viking Invasion expansion) when the Pope gets eliminated for the first time, when they return, they become completly militaristic attacking any nearby provinces that look weak. At the rate they were going they would've hit the Baltic Sea. I've only ever seen the pope sit there like a bump on a log.

[AtorianPaladin]

Abridged Summary: Early, Hard Dif Meddy/VI Vannila

Um, Peace with HRE is def a big thing. I've noticed that England will fall on its own accord from France. I took time, took Scandinavia.

Built up ships, got trade going to i guess Byzantium territories.

Was racking in about 5k+ per turn, built vikings (high end) and invaded rebel territories east of baltic. Bribed territory that has Crossbowmen and Lithuanian nobles. Nobles suck, but having 120 crossbowmen b4 everyone else is good, cause all russia has is light/ med cav.

Conquered Russia using army built around crossbowmen and Huscarles. Note that the crossbowmen were wracking in about 100+ kills each per battle, which is amazing. Even mounted crossbows are worth having if fighting against light infantry or cav. They killed about 2-7 per volley.

Back on subject. Conquered Russia, took rebels. Used Priests to help stabilize occupation, due to the fact that the northlands are usually all pagan, except for Moscovy.

Next stop was poland. I prepped several armies. Between Bribing provinces and 3 full stacks, poland fell in 15 turns. At this time HRE was reduced to 3 provinces from France and Poland, I went in for kill.

Having nigh unlimited money alows you to start a blitzkrieg that is almost impossible to beat. If you cant beat them, bribe them, and if they cant be bought, beatem.

[Evil Eddie]

You need to take Sweden and Norway ASAP to get the extra income. Leave Denmark for producing your boats, while using Norway to produce your exellent Vikings with the +1 valour bonus. They are fantastic bread-and-butter troops right from the start. Sweden I try and develop weapon upgrades first, and later in the game I use it as a place where I send all my battle damaged units to either be merged into new units with other damaged units, or retrained with weapon upgrades.

Also once you get a good trading route going, and a decent merchant in Sweden you can make some serious florens with it.

[McDoogle]

I build up myself 6 units of vikings, i search through my ranks for high accumen, I then take sweden on my second turn, i wait several and take norway.

Spend your time making alliances and marrying your daughters. I then build churches and ports, merchants and then farms. i make bishops whom i move out to russia, i then start building my spearmakers and swordsmiths for my Chivilic men at arms (on of the best units in the game).

Take a foot hold in Russia, and expand if people are attacking you, you can pretty much take Russia in 10 turns if your clever. I did it in 5!

I then moved out towards england. a very easy place to take from denmark. just have fleets in all the sea regions, build ou armies and attack every province at once, English cant defend themselves and after three turns they arm for a cease fire.

You may be excommunicate, but so are the rest of the major powers, just wait until the pope dies.

move out and take the coastal regions, wait until the germans have to fight the almohads and they start to die and lose their land, then erupt out of scandinvia and take germany then move on and take europe.

i play on the points scheme, more fun that way.

[The Darkhorn]

I do not know if this is a bug or what but many times i've played the danes , when in the later stages it's hard to produce male heirs. When I was almost conquered the whole world my line ended... :-(

Actually, I've never seen any real bad effects from just having the guy jump on one of his sisters if he's in his thirties and no one will marry you. Nasty, but it works. The drooling idiot vices are just random anyway.

[The Darkhorn]

I tried a different approach to make the conquest of Norway much easier. This was on normal difficulty so I don't know if it would work on harder modes but I will try in the future for sure.

In 1087, attack Sweden with your king alone. This way they AI won't retreat and you will get to fight them. If you win, it is -120 vikings to fight in Norway and it isn't really hard to win 21 vs 120 on normal. I proceeded like this :

Close in to the first squad of enemy vikings so they charge you, then tell your knights to charge to the left and begin a flanking motion until you are behind their general's squad, and charge them, this way, the first squad will be stuck behind the general's one and they won't attack, soon you should kill the general and their moral at the same time making them rout. Fall back a little and charge the other squad immediatly. You should win this with a few casualities (I had 6 deaths) but they should rout pretty fast. You can then capture the rest of the vikings.

Now you will get to fight 240 vikings instead of 360 in norway.

This works even better when you play with huge units like I like to. It doesn't alter opening setup any, but....units are exactly twice as large (except Rks...I wonder why?)....so they are automatically thrown together in any provence where there's two on default....making only one unit! King still faces 120 Vikings, but only one unit of them. You can just charge and damn the consequences b/c they can't flank you while you're tied up with one unit as they could on default unit size...plus you're king will replace his losses in a few turns!

[gunslinger]

I'm playing as Danes in my first campaign. I've got my build order pretty messed up in most of my provinces, but that's just part of the learning process. I also messed up and got into a stupid war with Spain just because I was bored -- There goes a huge chunk of my trading income. I have taken all of the Brittish Isles except Ireland. It looks pretty worthless financially.

I have two questions:

1. If I take Ireland, will I be able to make the javelin throwers? (I was not happy when I took Wales, invested in all the buildings to get a bowery, and could not make longbows)

2. I read something in another thread about a Swiss faction appearing at some point in the game. Since Switzerland is my main financial breadbasket, I'm a bit worried about this. When can I expect it to happen, and how bad will it be?

Thanks for your help,
Gunslinger:charge:

[m52nickerson]

2. I read something in another thread about a Swiss faction appearing at some point in the game. Since Switzerland is my main financial breadbasket, I'm a bit worried about this. When can I expect it to happen, and how bad will it be?

Gunslinger:charge:

I think you mean Sweden is your financial breadbasket. Switerland is in Germany.

[gunslinger]

Yes, you are right. I realized my mistake the next time I turned on the game. Don't know how I got that confused.

[gunslinger]

Ok, here's another (hopefully more intelligent) question. When I'm on the defense, I spend all kinds of time forming my units into a beautiful defensive formation with all of the lines dress right dress, etc. I put all of the appropriate units on hold hold, and begin the battle. About one third of my units then immediately begin moving out of the formation, drastically changing the way they face, and generally destroying the perfect formation I just put them in. They do this while the enemy is still clear on the other side of the battlefield (So it's definitly not some kind of impetuous charge). Why do they do this? How can I stop them?

My second question is similar. Sometimes on the attack I want to group a large portion of my army in a formation and march it to the enemy line for a head-on attack. The army never makes it more than about 10 steps before it is utterly dissarayed. If I push the spacebar to see where they are going to end up, they are all over the map, and most of them have their flanks to the enemy. I've tried the ALT+left click and it doesn't help. Any suggestions?

Thanks for your patience,
Gunslinger

[ichi]

Ok, here's another (hopefully more intelligent) question. When I'm on the defense, I spend all kinds of time forming my units into a beautiful defensive formation with all of the lines dress right dress, etc. I put all of the appropriate units on hold hold, and begin the battle. About one third of my units then immediately begin moving out of the formation, drastically changing the way they face, and generally destroying the perfect formation I just put them in. They do this while the enemy is still clear on the other side of the battlefield (So it's definitly not some kind of impetuous charge). Why do they do this? How can I stop them?

Sounds like you are setting them up too close to one another. Units have to have a little space to themselves, if you set up with one unit in another's space then one will relocate when the game begins. It will move until it can stop so that none of its space is within the space of another unit.

At least, from your description of the problem that's what it sounds like. They can be pretty close, just won't tolerate overlap of any portion.


My second question is similar. Sometimes on the attack I want to group a large portion of my army in a formation and march it to the enemy line for a head-on attack. The army never makes it more than about 10 steps before it is utterly dissarayed. If I push the spacebar to see where they are going to end up, they are all over the map, and most of them have their flanks to the enemy. I've tried the ALT+left click and it doesn't help. Any suggestions?

Thanks for your patience,
Gunslinger

hmm... so select the units you want, place them in the formation you want, and hold down the ALT key while you left mouseclick the spot you want them to go. Should work, they should go to the spot in the same formation facing the same way. It's worked for me a bazillion times. ALT and double left click makes them run and maintain formation and facing. Thats a stumper. You hold the ALT key while you left click?

ichi:bow:

[gunslinger]

Thank you, that definitly clears up one of my problems. I was running the ranks right into one another to keep the formation tight and compact. I tried leaving a little space, and that cleared things up. It even helped a little with the problem of units leaving their position while moving. Maybe when they are too close, the uneven terrain they move over causes them to overlap at some point, and the computer changes their facing to adjust?

On another note, all of the experts here give some great advice, without which I would still be stumbling around in the dark. I do have one very small difference with popular opinion which has worked well for me. Everyone says to line your spear-type units up four ranks deep. I totally agree that they would fight best that way, and if a spear unit is on its own on the battlefield for some reason, that's how I use it. However, when I set up a classic defensive formation (on a hill with spears in the center protecting my archers, and swords/axes/cavalry on the flanks) I only put them three deep. With two units of spears forming my center front, this allows them to cover a lot more ground, leaving me more room to spread out my archers for better accuracy, and maybe freeing up one other unit from line duty so it can be used for flanking, etc. The reason I get away with weakening my line like this is because the AI (very wisely) NEVER attacks me head-on in the center of my line with a large number of units. It usually attacks en masse on a flank or else tries to send mini waves of single units near the center of the line. In most cases, my spears see very little action because any unit which gets near the center gets pinned, flanked, and massacred.

Maybe later in the game the AI will have units good enough to feel confident hitting me head-on, but for now it just doesn't want to tangle with my upgraded feudal sergeants while they are in a good formation, so they are mosly a deterent to keep the bad guys away from my archers.

[ichi]

Remember that spears get a bonus for up to two extra ranks (in most units the front two ranks fight, if you watch the units closely you'll see that the men in the back aren't fighting), so while the wider front has its advantage, you're robbing them of an important bonus.

ichi

[Zain]

I love using the Danish, their location is awesome for an all-out Northern invasion of Germany :smile:

-ZainDustin

[Seyfullah]

i would like to tell you all about my danish campaign. i just started and i m not past 1130 i think. i took sweden by making the vikings retreat. later, after training some more troops i attacked norway. using a perfect execution of flanking-at least IMHO- i slaughtered the vikings. after i built my first ship i discovered that the polish had pomerania. i attacked them but they sent in a stronger army and my inexperience here cost me an army of about 350-400.:wall: i tried to abandon the province but they caught my people and the ransom was too much. anyways a second ship into the baltic sea while expanding trade to england, i took my chances with lithuania and livonia. after i brought in more troops to calm civil strife the polish attacked me.:furious3: anyways i defended ably and killed their king in battle. later they married one of my princesses and now we're allies. i also allied with the brits, exchanging princesses, and the HRE. the reason behind this: they are fighting the french and the french have flanders. later i plan on turning on one of them. currently i m second in GA points.

i am open to suggestions since this is my second actual campaign...
more updates coming later...

[Barbarossa1221]

Danish are good early on with the vikings.
But you gotta get some good troops I like halberd especially because I always take the baltic states and later on have to defend against that insedious mongol horde.

I like Danish because it requires a lot of skill really, simply taking over all the good rebel provinces and rolling in trade money mmhmm good stuff.

[rvg]

Danish, imho, are the easiest faction to play with. HRE is a paper tiger that usually gets killed by the French. At the same time, HRE is a buffer between you and the rest of Eaurope, so you dont have to worry about anyone invading your lands. You have *the* best province on the map, Sweden (Constantinople comes close, but it doesn't have Iron), cheap longboats, AWESOME infantry, easy expansion into Finland/Novgorod and Livonia/Lithuania, as well as the ability to hit Scotland and plow your way down to Flanders. And that's just the opening gambit so to speak.

The only downside to playing Danes is that you can't Crusade. Then again, if you actually could do that, the Danes would be even more ridiculously overpowered than they already are.

[Zain]

Whenever I first installed MTW I looked through all the factions and thought "What's gonna be the hardest faction to win with?" and I saw the Danes. They had one measily province, and was somewhat "surrounded" by the Germans. So, I chose them, and massacred the map with them. I love the Danes. :viking:

-ZainDustin

[matteus the inbred]

Whenever I first installed MTW I looked through all the factions and thought "What's gonna be the hardest faction to win with?" and I saw the Danes. They had one measily province, and was somewhat "surrounded" by the Germans. So, I chose them, and massacred the map with them. I love the Danes.

I second that, love the Danes, love huscarls and the seemingly endless stream of disposable heirs. Am currently experimenting with smacking the HRE from the off, as RVG correctly states, it's a paper tiger that dies ridiculously quickly when you attack in concert with the French, Italians, Poles etc. The real problem comes when you and the French run out of people to attack except for each other! It's hard to maintain a decently small border when you move south into Europe, and France is your main trading partner unless England survives.
If you want a challenging 'one-province starter', try Aragon instead! I'm still working on that one...

[Zain]

:2thumbsup:

:viking:

-ZainDustin

[Zain]

I'm not too sure, but do you think I'm going to win?

https://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/ZainDustin/DanesVs.jpg

I only had Denmark, Sweden, and Norway and the Egyptians made their way up and attacked me. I drove them completely back into Constantinople, no cheatcodes, manual moderations, or save and reloads.

This actually happened a while back, but I wonder if anyone knows what the outcome will be... because I do.

-ZainDustin

[Zain]

The Almohads also border me to the West up near Denmark. Europe's falling to Muslims!!!

-ZainDustin

[NodachiSam]

I hope you win :D Your performance seems to be impressive.

[Zain]

I did this a while back. They eliminated my army after a long battle, and my poor self and defenseless provinces were overtaken. The Egyptians started a series of attacks on Denmark, and it stayed alive for about 4 years of huge attacks. Then Denmark fell, and it didn't take long for Sweden and Norway to fall.

:sad: I lost.

-ZainDustin

[NodachiSam]

Sorry to hear that:no: Did you fail to hold constatinople or did you suffer venturing south?

[Zain]

After the year that I show in the picture, they attacked me with all the fully stacked armies you see. I lost that battle. Then they easily drilled through my weak underbelly and killed me off.

I was poor to plan, and didn't manage my money well. I guess I'm somewhat good at working under poverty.

-ZainDustin

[Zain]

My current campaign with the Danes is the link in my signature. Take a look everyone! It's a very slow process though...

-ZainDustin

[De' Medici]

2 years ago I played a campaign with the Danes, in GA, from early period. :viking:

I decided to conquer only Scandinavia and build massively in these provinces. I trained an assassin, killed agents on the map, until he reached the maximum stars. :saint:

I eliminated many factions, killing kings and all that. Of course that I loaded this campaign many times at the beginning, because of the death of the assassin. But in time I managed to be among the two factions in the GA panel, the Danes and the Turks if i remember well. After 1400, the Holy Roman Empire came back, along with the Burgundians. Starting in the first period, Russia is not present in the GA panel. So I let them live and develop. ~:cheers: Also the Pope ruled all Italy :captain:

I don't have the saved games anymore but I think I'm going to play in that manner another time and post some pics.

[Arol]

Playing the Danes.:help:



HEIR WANTED!
Medium to large Kingdom needs an heir urgently. Good advancement possibilities, as you’ll be next in line to be king.
Salary and working conditions to be negotiated.

Seriously the AI is shafting me. I know that the program cheats, but as Poul Newman proved in the film “The Sting”, knowing that the opponent cheats opens up possibilities. But when the opponent not only sets the parameters of the game and enforces them and then resorts to cheating, it gets a bit disheartening. :furious3:
As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.:wall:
Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!:book:
One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.:dizzy2:
Any solution to my problem???
Please!!!:sweatdrop:

[Maloncanth]

I've had the hidden heir on assassination problem as well and I suspect it only happens once at most per ruler. It's never popped more than one for me.

[Ludens]

As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.:wall:
Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!:book:
I don't think allotment of heirs is a cheating mechanism, rather a chance process that hasn't been optimized. However, you can get a heir by typing ".unfreeze." (without the quotation marks) on the campaignmap. I cannot help you with the hidden heir syndrome, however.

[SithMarauder]

Hi all,

I've started playing MTW:VI again, starting with the Danes.

I started by taking hold of Sweden and Norway, building economic buildings such as ports and trading posts and shipbuilding in Denmark. Instead of going for the Baltic provinces my aim was to seize Scotland and Ireland before the English could.

To my suprise my army of 400 vikings and royal knights were joined by the English Northumbrian Army. I let my English allies take the brunt of any Scottish attack, to the shame of the English they were completely routed & their General slain. The Scot's must have forgotten about my army which promptly charged their rear and slew them to a man as they were trapped between my army and that of the English who decided enough running away and screaming like girls and decided to fight.

I wasn't expecting the fact that the English would take the province as they fielded the larger army. Feeling a little incensed at this I reloaded a previous few turns and promptly landed a larger army this time. Winning the battle outright the English still ran away screaming, so I decided to declare war and destroyed the Northumbrian Army on the same battlefield.

Marching through Northumbria the remaining troops there fled to the fort. Instead of beseiging the fort I made for Mercia, to my suprise I took Mercia without a battle gaining a Castle and some decent buildings, now I can build Feudal Sergeants :2thumbsup: to bolster my army. I now proceeded to force the English out of Wales and Merica, when the English King decided to offer ceasefire by offering his only princess I accepted, he then proposed an alliance and the English holdings in France were being attacked by the French.

I built up my new army of feudal sarge's, royal knights, vikings and landsmen to blitzkreig across French territory. My aim was to relieve any English forts beseiged by the French, gaining the appreciation for the English who were more than willing to forgive me for my past dealings with them. And low and behold on several ocassions they tagged onto my invasions into French provinces. I aimed for the French provinces that had castles and improved troop building facilities. Any other provinces had their buildings destroyed and armies put to the sword no ransoming unless I would get a lot of florrins for them. This left the French to deal with either more raids by me, the English, HRE or rebel uprisings.

This left me to recoup any loses, and send any low value troops on suicide missions. I tend not to disband any troops as I have found I could face them as merc's. And sometimes they can supprise you and make gains.

I'm aiming to get the English and French to border the Spanish and Aragoneese. Maybe aid them in the odd raid against Spanish and Alohmad provinces. I'm also using my mass army of sarges and knights to stomp all over HRE and drag the Polish, Hungarians and Italians into war with them also. Any attacks on my provinces usually have me marching onto where the attack comes from and wiping everything in that province out.

My Danish army and navy is planning on making gains in the med as well to establish bases to raid and plunder the Papal States, Italians and Byzantines.
If my blitzkreig tactic works on other factions I'll put it to good use.
My tips for today:-
If your allies aid your invasion of a rebel or enemy province make sure you field a bigger army and let the do all the dying. Why let your loyal troops die for you when you can have your allies do that instead, and if you feel that your allies are cowardly just put them to the sword as well as your enemy.

If you can blitz enemy provinces and force them to retreat :2thumbsup: consider if the provinces is worth holding if not implement scorched earth policy and destroy any buildings and move on to a province with castles and superior troop building. Aim to hold and take this province, garisson it and build superior troops. Rinse and repeat.


"Oh look a nice shiny new castle you shouldnt have built it for me, my battlehardend troops want to thank you properly for a job well done. Hmm running away screaming again oh well, probably dont want to get blood over your nice clean armor!" - King Olaf II

[The Darkhorn]

Playing the Danes.:help:



Seriously the AI is shafting me. I know that the program cheats, but as Poul Newman proved in the film “The Sting”, knowing that the opponent cheats opens up possibilities. But when the opponent not only sets the parameters of the game and enforces them and then resorts to cheating, it gets a bit disheartening. :furious3:
As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.:wall:
Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!:book:
One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.:dizzy2:
Any solution to my problem???
Please!!!:sweatdrop:

This is common. I do occasionally wipe out a faction by assination or burning. It's not a hidden heir. What's happening is the AI is waiting for an heir to mature before letting you slit the king's throat. I've sent wave after wave (5-6 per turn) of high valour (mix of 3-7 stars) :creep: at a ruler for years. Occasionally you will get him before his heir matures. So, it is cheating, but not absolute cheating. If that doesn't make sense, then here's what I mean: The AI seems programmed to make it MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to kill the ruler if he has no heir. If you don't believe me, pay attention. The year (or within a couple) his heir matures, as he thumbs his nose at your inability to get him, that wave of assassins will get him. :croc: Look at the age of the new king. He will be at most 17 or 18. It's probably better and easier to assissinate the heirs. But, they are harder to get to as they may be buried in a stack where you can't get to them. Inquisitions have the same difficulty getting him till he has an heir. He can be running around naked, sh1tting on the alter, cursing God and bufu-ing the devil , but they can't burn him till his idiot son matures. It's blatant cheating, but it's still fun because, as I said it's not absolute...just very hard. I have gotten him before.

[Empirate]

I don't agree on the hidden heir issue. I read about the Khan assassination trick on this forum, and having huge piles of gold to throw around (Egyptian game, VH, Early), I trained close to 20 assassins, most in the three star range, but with at least two five and one six star. The poor clergy of Egypt must have been shocked to find four or five alims murdered each year...
Anyway, the Horde turned up as usual, bringing like ten stacks of good troops I itched to bribe. I had my assassins in Khazar, as well as a like amount of emissaries. The assassins were sent to kill the Khan, the emissaries waited till the deed was done. They ostensibly had no heirs, and the Khan went down easily. I think he fell to the third or fourth assassin to try his luck - which left me with plenty of able agents for later...! But instead of turning rebel, the Mongols stayed in the game, and a new king had come from nowhere, at 23 years of age! He couldn't have come from another province, as the Horde had only turned up in Khazar, and I had checked every stack thoroughly. Sound like a hidden heir to me!

ADDENDUM: It might be that the new Khan had arisen in a kind of quick civil war... can that be?

[Sensei Warrior]

More than once in this thread people have mentioned rushing Sweden on the first turn. If you rush with the King and the Vikings the Swedish rebels will retreat to Norway, and if you attack with just the King they will stay and fight.

Well, I started a campaign as the Danish MTW/VI Early/Expert/TD and had an unusual outcome I thought I would share. On the first turn I moved the King into Sweden figuring I would give the inevitable battle a shot and see what happens. The rebels predictably stay and fight. I get slaughtered and my King killed and was forced to endure the Failed game screen.

After a couple of vallent, but unsuccessful tries I decide to add the unit of Vikings and watch the Swedish rebels beat a hasty retreat. So I load up a game from the previous start point where the King is already positioned in Sweden, I plop the Vikings in Sweden next to the King (I did not put it in the King's stack), and ended the year.

Lo and behold I am sent to the battle screen to fight the battle. Typically they retreat, but for some reason they decided to stay and I actually had a battle with the Swedish rebels using both my King and a Viking unit.

Weird huh? I don't know but it seems like they stayed and fought because I put 2 single units in Sweden in different stacks. I don't know why that would make a difference but I figured I would share to possibly give another option to the first turn King to Sweden gambit.

[Agent Miles]

Put the King and his bodyguard on a hilltop. You get a bonus for charging downhill. Repeat this a few times and the vikings are routed, leaving you "King of the Hill".
If you would rather have them flee to Norway it's not really a problem. I have VI and with a 20% farm upgrade and a Horse Farm I can churn out some adequate horse units. They are the bane of the Vikings.

[Adrian II]

The Danes

Early, Expert, both GA and Conquest


Have you ever wondered what the short end of the stick looks like? It looks like Denmark in Early. :yes:

Your Danes start practically without land, income, troops, buildings, ships or agents. What they do have, right from the start, is a fickle neighbourhood. To make matters worse most of it is Catholic – and your mission is to conquer it because conquest is the name of your game.

Even in GA mode, all you need to do for the first 213 years is hang on to your homeland of Denmark and conquer at least 32 other territories. No Crusades, no Cathedrals, no bling bling. You just have to attack, conquer and consolidate at least one country every six turns; keep the Pope happy; keep your populace happy; invade piss-poor islands with exotic names and build whole new armies there from nothing; train agents; prevent rebellions; ward off enemy assassins and inquisitors; build a huge fleet, and tech up like mad. Oh, and all this on 1 dollar a day.

In the High period (after 1205) Livonia is added to your Homelands. In Late (after 1300) your Kalmar Union must top the German Hanse League in trade income as additional GA goal.

Wat’s more, you can not pull off any opening blitzes, ransom parties, raids or stunts. Those are just not in the cards. On the other hand you can not afford to sit back and count your Vikings or you will be overrun.

In short, the Danish faction is the toughest nut in the pack. Since we like ‘em that way, let’s get cracking.


For starters we have:


one barely developed country
almost no income
almost no troops
a dynasty prone to all the known vices if you don’t let them fight often
an environment that is in constant flux for at least 50 years
one angry neighbour in Lederhosen
no ability to crusade
lots of deep water staring back at you


Redeeming factors are:


lots of deep water staring back at the opposition (i.e. serving as your natural border)
Vikings "R" Us! You can raise them wherever you go. Alright, so can some of the neighbours; and alright, Norway has the better Vikings because of the provincial bonus. But it’s a start since Vikings are good value for your money in Early and Norway will be yours soon.
you have only two borders to defend; if you play it well you will have only one border to defend for a couple of years
the other factions’ emissaries will all come to you (this literally saves expenses)
rebel Sweden is ideal prey. It is weakly defended and it has an iron deposit, the largest granary around and a huge trading potential
you will be left alone by your Catholic neighbours as long as you don’t install huge armies in border provinces as your territory is not a GA goal for any faction


Since the attitude of the neighbours as well as territorial changes in the region are different in each new Danish campaign, there is no ideal opening scenario. There are only general rules. In any case your goal should be to raise Denmark to the status of a regular Catholic kingdom by the year 1205.


1. Take care of your income first or you will be bleeding interest by the year 1110.

Trade is your lifeline for the first one hundred years, so Denmark goes to Keep right away, then to Shipwright, after which it starts pumping out bonus Longboats like there is no tomorrow. Send the ships into the Baltic first; you may need them right away against the Polish if you are unlucky. Meanwhile, raise Vikings and one or two Archer units.

2. Ally like mad.

Be nice to every Tom, Dick and Harry who comes along; you will have to make difficult choices between your allies (for instance the French and English) soon enough. And soon afterwards you will have to pick a preferred victim as well, a neighbouring country which you are going to completely take apart and conquer in the most treacherous fashion. Usually this is either the Holy Roman Empire, the Polish Kingdom or the English Kingdom.

In case of distant alliances you should be clear in your preferences and stick to them. Be nice to the Italian signore who always gets there first (namely by sea) because you need his friendship if you want to keep your Mediterranean trading fleet afloat. Be very nice to the Papal emissary; you need the Pope’s backing against your neighbours. Besides, once His Holiness is in the money he will be sending you one-thousand-florin gifts for ‘services rendered to the Church’. Little does He know…

3. As soon as you have your first heir (this should be around 1090) you take Sweden.

There are various ways to go about it, all of them easy. However, if you want the rebel Vikings in Sweden to fight instead of flee to Norway (making that harder to take later on) you should bring either only your Royal Knights or one Viking unit plus one Archer unit. I prefer the latter because it trains a new General (you don’t have any other beside your ruler) which comes in handy in Norway later on.

In any case, the Vikings in Sweden will stay and fight only as long as your combat strength does not exceed theirs. In order to find out, you can consult the Unit Comparison Tool (http://totalwar.co.kr/medieval/indexx.htmlUnit) of Clan Berserk. Click on the ‘units’ icon in the overhead menu bar, insert units and compare the combined Combat Ratings.

Once you have taken Sweden, put a Governor with at least 4 Acumen in charge and queue the Watch Tower, Copper mine, 20% farming, Trading Post and Port there. After that, tech up to Metalsmith for your first weapons upgrade. Meanwhile, tech up to Armourer in Denmark. You will these upgrades to sustain your initial campaign of conquest. Always put quality above quantity.

4. Take Norway around 1095.

I don’t think you should wait and buy the Norwegian rebel army later on like some players suggest. Even if you can afford it, which is not sure at all, you will first need to train an Emissary. And in order to do that you need a Royal Palace which requires lots of money and years of construction which can be put to better use. So, attack Norway with whatever you can spare. Opinions differ on what units to bring. It’s up to you, but make it short and painless since you will need a sizeable garrison there for some time.

After you have taken Norway, install a ‘friendly’ governor and queue a feel-good building followed by a Trading Post, Port, Keep and Shipwright.


A word on Vikings
From now on, train your Vikings in Norway for the Valour bonus, retrain them in Sweden to give them the weapons upgrade and/or retrain them in Denmark to give them the armour upgrade. As a result you are the owner of a bunch of nasty choppers and grinders which your rivals can not equal until 1205 when the Chivalric Men-at-arms come along. They are particularly effective against German peasant armies but they will eat Feudal Men-at-arms (who are armoured) as well.
Apart from their anti-armour bonus, the Vikings' strength is in the 'shield wall', which means you should always put them on 'hold formation'. And since they have no rank bonus you can spread them thin, two ranks deep if need be, so they will not be surrounded by an enemy unit.
When defending, let your Vikings hide in woods and jump the enemy armour first. When your Vikings have been decimated, retrain them locally – unless they are reduced to less than 40 men, in which case they would lose a valour point and you had better send them back to Norway for retraining.

5. Further conquest will depend on your environment.

The environment will change constantly in the first fifty years, and it will change differently in each new Danish campaign. However, the rebel territories should always come first. You can try and take some of the Baltic rebel states if the Germans or Polish haven’t beaten you to them. Or you can try and take rebel provinces in the British Isles. Always remember that you can land troops in provinces without ports, but you can not withdraw them from there if things go wrong. Wherever your expansion takes you, always build Trading Posts, Merchants, Ports and (if worthwhile) some agricultural upgrade first.

6. Sooner or later you will have to crush another Catholic faction.

If you are lucky, the Pope will let you fight other Catholics for quite a while. But be careful, you are still too weak to face multiple opponents. The Germans are watching you, so watch them. You wouldn’t be the first Danish player who forgets to do his daily Lederhosen-check and gets an unannounced visit from the Kaiser followed by the ‘bye-bye’ screen with the funny music before 1205.

So, fight one faction at a time. Choose your victim carefully. See if he owns a fleet that can do considerable damage to yours. If you decide to attack, stick with him until you have eliminated his faction if you can. Meanwhile respect all other alliances and neutralities (and never oppose another faction's Crusade unless you are sure you can handle his fleet as well).

Once you have chosen your victim, attack one of his provinces at a time. Start with territories that do not belong to his homeland or GA goals. Bring enough troops to finish it off in two turns: one turn for the battle, one turn for storming the castle – this way you will be safe if the Pope threatens excommunication after two years of hostilities. Offer a ceasefire (or force it) whenever you can. Bow out, smile in every direction. Lie low for a while. Then attack again. In particular, try to induce a civil war in your favourite victim’s camp, resulting in easy pickings. The Germans are always ready to go at each other’s throats should the Kaiser drop his clanger. Keep the other factions divided as best you can. The French and the English will be constantly at it; if one is winning, support the other and vice versa. Oppose a Crusade that belongs to another faction's GA goals whenever you can afford it. Kiss every Italian or Sicilian princess. Stay away from Byzantine uber-fleet concentrations, those guys are trigger-happy.

7. Huscarls top Vikings, barques top longboats.

Huscarls are Vikings with a vengeance, and it is personal. They are elite, armour-piercing and near-impenetrable on 'hold formation'. In Early you can just wind them up, let them loose and watch the show. Later on they still make great bridge-takers or bridge-defenders against spear-heavy enemies and even against Mongol Heavy Cavalry. Keep your Huscarls close to your commanders if you can. As a unit of last resort, Huscarls will never run without putting up a good fight to cover your retreat. Huscarls also make good governors with decent acumen and above average piety and loyalty.

Train your Huscarls in Sweden (with the weapons upgrade) and retrain them in Denmark if possible to give them the armour upgrade as well, or vice versa. Your Huscarls should gradually replace your Vikings and Norway should take over shipbuilding (barques, not longboats) from Denmark which now has other priorities.

8. Endgame

By 1205 you should have made significant inroads into the European mainland and taken the odd island in the Mediterranean, a strip of Barbary Coast (Northern Africa) and/or part of Britain. Your financial worries should be over (at least 200.000 florins in the bank) and tech-wise you should be ready for the conversion of your forces into regular Catholic armies. No more Viking nostalgia, although you may want to maintain some uber-Huscarls as flankers in your Royalty’s armies (something I prefer). So, start churning our those Chivalric Sergeants and Pavised units in readiness for the Horde.

If the Byzantines dominate the Mediterranean by this time, they will not be in the least impressed by the Mongol invasion. Byzantium will fight both you and the Horde at the same time, so don’t be surprised if you have to face the yellow Horde and purple Jedi simultaneously. Don't ever forget that you are not fighting the 'Byz', the 'Almos' or the 'Spanish' - you are fighting a machine, called 'AI', which controls all other factions and may make them act in a coordinated fashion to take you down a peg or two. Consider it an honour if they try.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[caravel]

A word on Vikings
From now on, train your Vikings in Norway for the Valour bonus, retrain them in Sweden to give them the weapons upgrade and/or retrain them in Denmark to give them the armour upgrade. As a result you are the owner of a bunch of nasty choppers and grinders which your rivals can not equal until 1205 when the Chivalric Men-at-arms come along. They are particularly effective against German peasant armies but they will eat Feudal Men-at-arms (who are armoured) as well.
Apart from their anti-armour bonus, the Vikings' strength is in the 'shield wall', which means you should always put them on 'hold formation'. And since they have no rank bonus you can spread them thin, two ranks deep if need be, so they will not be surrounded by an enemy unit.
When defending, let your Vikings hide in woods and jump the enemy armour first. When your Vikings have been decimated, retrain them locally – unless they are reduced to less than 40 men, in which case they would lose a valour point and you had better send them back to Norway for retraining.
A great post Adrian II! Can I be so bold as to query this section though? :bow:

The blurb in the description for "Vikings" does indeed mention about the Vikings' strength being in the "shield wall", but this does not really apply to the unit. The Viking stats are:

Charge: 3, Attack: 3, Defence: 0, Armour: 2, Morale: 4

As you can see they're nothing special in the defensive department. Compared with Feudal Men At Arms:

Charge: 3, Attack: 3, Defence: 2, Armour: 3, Morale: 2

The key difference here is the base defense, armour and morale values, as well as the Vikings' AP ability. These units are essentially attackers. They don't get any attack/defence bonuses vs cavalry, the Vikings do get their attack bonus vs armoured troops of course. With upgrades the Vikings become the stronger unit, and this down to the higher starting morale, the AP ability. The valour bonus region is another advantage. While the Vikings don't get a valour bonus from a dependancy building, and the Feudal Men at Arms do, teching up to a Master Swordsmith in the early era is no small task.

In view of all this I'm not sure why I would put Vikings, in particular, on hold formation and try to use them defensively. If I were to do this, I would presumably do the the same with FMAA, and going by the stats above they would be better suited in some respects. The only time I would place any sword infantry on hold formation (excepting desperate situations where you have no spears, and a few exceptional units such as VG and Huscarles), would be in certain cases when charging, to prevent them forming into a "swarm". As soon as the charge hits home, I will change them back into engage at will. Also there are certain cases where it is desirable for infantry to plug a gap (spears are general better for this, but on some occasions units other types of Infantry can do the job), having the unit on engage at will causes men to stray and the unit to lose cohesion rapidly. It is then easily flanked and destroyed.

Good to see someone else that appreciates the Vanilla Vikings by the way! :thumbsup:

:bow:

[Adrian II]

Good to see someone else that appreciates the Vanilla Vikings by the way! :thumbsup:

:bow::bow:

We are of one mind when it comes to that. One particular charm of this game is that nearly all factions have certain more or less unique units and I always treat these with particular respect.

On topic though, let me try and answer your point. I believe you are counting without the Norwegian valour bonus, even though you mentioned it. This is essential.

The +1 Norwegian valour bonus adds +1 Attack, +1 Defense and +2 Morale points. Now if you put your Vikings on ‘hold formation’ as I recommend, they suffer -2 Attack and gain +2 Defense points. Together with an armour-piercing bonus against FMAA of +1 Attack, you get some really nice stats. In 'Hold Formation' your Vikings' Attack doesn't suffer fatally, whilst their Defense benefits considerably from the formation.


Vikings: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 3 Armour 2 Morale 5

All in all this makes them superior to ordinary Feudal Men-at-arms:


FMAA: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 2 Armour 3 Morale 2

Of course upgrades add to the stats on both sides, but if you tech up to Metalsmith in Sweden and to Armourer in Denmark (skip the Swordsmith in both provinces!) and then process your Norwegian Vikings through these upgrades, they are a killing machine in Early. That’s what I was saying. You are of course right that your ordinary Viking is slightly inferior to your ordinary FMAA.

As for the added effectivity of the 'shield wall', I couldn't vouch for the existence of any 'shield wall bonus'' . To me this is just another, historically more correct name for 'Hold formation'. I like to think that the developers, who introduced all those special units with such love and care, intended it that way when they wrote the blurb.

Hope this didn't sound too stupid.

[caravel]

I believe you are counting without the Norwegian valour bonus, even though you mentioned it. This is essential.
I was trying to include it, unfortunately I probably wasn't very exacting. My point about it was, that the Vikings don't get a valour bonus from e.g. a master spearmaker or a master swordsmith, wheras units such as FS and FMAA do, but of course that take a lot more teching up.

The +1 Norwegian valour bonus adds +1 Attack, +1 Defense and +2 Morale points. Now if you put your Vikings on ‘hold formation’ as I recommend, they suffer -2 Attack and gain +2 Defense points. Together with an armour-piercing bonus against FMAA of +1 Attack, you get some really nice stats. In 'Hold Formation' your Vikings' Attack doesn't suffer fatally, whilst their Defense benefits considerably from the formation.


Vikings: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 3 Armour 2 Morale 5

All in all this makes them superior to ordinary Feudal Men-at-arms:


FMAA: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 2 Armour 3 Morale 2

Of course upgrades add to the stats on both sides, but if you tech up to Metalsmith in Sweden and to Armourer in Denmark (skip the Swordsmith in both provinces!) and then process your Norwegian Vikings through these upgrades, they are a killing machine in Early. That’s what I was saying. You are of course right that your ordinary Viking is slightly inferior to your ordinary FMAA.
This is all very true.

As for the added effectivity of the 'shield wall', I couldn't vouch for the existence of any 'shield wall bonus'' . To me this is just another, historically more correct name for 'Hold formation'. I like to think that the developers, who introduced all those special units with such love and care, intended it that way when they wrote the blurb.

Hope this didn't sound too stupid.
You have made a very good case for using Vikings defensively in the early period. I wonder how they would do in the place of Feudal Sergeants? :

Vs Infantry:
Charge: 5 Attack: 0 Defence: -1 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

+ Hold Formation:
Charge: 5 Attack: -2 Defence: 1 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

Vs Cavalry:
Charge: 5 Attack: 1 Defence: 3 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

+ Hold Formation:
Charge: 5 Attack: -1 Defence: 5 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

I'm guessing that at the end of the day that +5 defence bonus may swing it in their favour, build some churches and get the morale upgraded and it looks even better.

:bow:

[Caerfanan]

One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.:dizzy2:
Any solution to my problem???
Please!!!:sweatdrop:

Now I think I have an answer. I think that the assassin text is based on wether or not the king has sons who would be his heirs. But the king's brothers can inherit the kingdom, would that poor king die choking on a chicken breast. I get it's only a "bug" in the assassination outcome pannel, forgetting that the brothers could take the throne.

My two cents! :bow:

[Don Corleone]

Hmm,

I got a hankering to play the Danish last night, so I gave it a shot: Early, Hard, GA. Turn 1 (1088) I stayed in Denmark and built an archer. 1089, I sent the king, the viking and the archer into Sweden, I build another viking unit in Denmark.. I thought the rebels might stick around, as they were only outnumbered by 20 men. No such luck, away they went. Fine by me. 1090 I move the thralls from Denmark up to Sweden, move the King back to Denmark and add another viking. In 1091, my heir arrives, along with a unit of Landsmenn (they seem to get better accumen then vanilla vikings, and I still didn't have a governor for Denmark, though I did for Sweden). I slide the archers from Sweden down to Denmark.

So, now I'm faced with a dilmena. I could wait for ships (4 more years to get a keep, 4 more to get a shipyard and 3 to get a ship itself, really 6 for 2 ships) or I could take the shortcut to Lithuania. And that's what I decided to do. The Holy Roman Emperor made this effort too alluring, as he pulled one of his vikings and his spearmen out of Saxony, leaving only 3 vikings. So, I went for it! The vikings holded up in Dresden.

Now, I'm sitting at work, having a mental debate. On the plus side, the HRE outnumbers me in terms of provinces immensely. The more time I give them to tech up, the more I'm signing my own death warrant. I'm thinking Friesland, not Pomerania, will be my next stop (keep the Kaiser's boats out of my lake). But before I persue an anti-Teutonic strategy for the rest of what could be a long but hopeless campaign, I'm just worried with this approach. Has anybody else tried this, forgoing everything but Sweden, even waiting to take Norway, in favor of hitting Saxony early?

Thoughts? Am I doomed?

[caravel]

Was it an HRE faction leader you were trying to assassinate? The HRE will elect a new emperor from among their generals if the current one dies heirless. The same goes for the Pope. He doesn't produce heirs, so the best general becomes the next pope. If you keep assassinating, a new pope still appears even if there are no units.

[Martok]

Now, I'm sitting at work, having a mental debate. On the plus side, the HRE outnumbers me in terms of provinces immensely. The more time I give them to tech up, the more I'm signing my own death warrant. I'm thinking Friesland, not Pomerania, will be my next stop (keep the Kaiser's boats out of my lake). But before I persue an anti-Teutonic strategy for the rest of what could be a long but hopeless campaign, I'm just worried with this approach. Has anybody else tried this, forgoing everything but Sweden, even waiting to take Norway, in favor of hitting Saxony early?

Thoughts? Am I doomed?

It really depends. The key question is this: Is the HRE at war with anyone besides yourself? If they are, then you should be able to pull it off without much difficulty, as it's they usually don't manage a two-front war very effectively. It especially helps if one of the other of Germany's combatants is the French -- they generally give the Imperials as good as they get. :yes:

If you're the Germans' sole enemy, however, then you may be in for a spot of trouble, as they can (and will) concentrate all their efforts and resources upon yourself. :skull: You *can* ride it out provided you win a couple brilliant defensive victories, but it's definitely tough doing so. Generally your best bet in those situations is to hang on until the HRE gets excommed and/or falls into civil war.

[Adrian II]

Thoughts? Am I doomed?Yes. Unless the HRE are fighting on two fronts, you're dead. Basically. Not in the next turn, but after,say, another ten or fifteen turns when you find yourself broke and unable to build that fleet. But hey, give it a shot anyway. You're the only human around in this game, that should count for something.
:thumbsup:

[Don Corleone]

In for a penny, in for a pound I always say....

I had 1/2 hour this morning. I took Friesland and Pomerania. In both cases, the HRE (and the Rebels, respectively) retreated, so I didnt' get any cheap spearmen victories (the HRE and the rebels were all spear armies... I can only imagine the valor I would have racked up in those confrontations).

My main thought on taking Friesland was that now I can keep my sole enemy, the HRE, out of the North Sea and my trading can progress unharrassed. I sent my first daughter down to court the old codger and his 8-fingered, no-opposable-thumb heir. The emperor is sitting right in Franconia so he's not that far away.

I don't think the HRE is at war with anyone else, but surprisingly, he's not teching up in my area (neither Lorriane, Franconia or Brandenberg even have a fort yet, and we're 9 years into the game).

Anyway, I'm done with my hostilities with the HRE for now. I hope they take peace. I had two goals: 1) keeping black flags out of the North Sea and 2) having a land bridge to my fortcoming Baltic colonies. My King already has an influence of 6 due to his conquests. I think taking Norway will push him up to 7. So I need to wait for him to pass and let his son invade Lithuania (the reigonal HQ) and lead troops into Prussia, Livonia, Kiev from there.

I know people claim there's no such thing as an influence bug, but when the influence wraps around, it's not 12 or 13, it's 2 or 3 cause I always get crappy heirs (and somehow, they always come of age when the king's influence is on the low end of the wrap-around).

I'll keep you posted...

[Caerfanan]

This wrapping around influence looks like a bit more than a little itch in the neck... What version of the game do you have?

Playing mostly in the viking campaign, I have'nt checked how influence was going for my king (alliances are not very reliable...), but I wonder for my futeures game in the "normal" campaigns...

[Don Corleone]

I've got VI installed so it should have all the patches. I can't check the exact revision code, but if it's a version-bug that i haven't ever updated over all these years, I'm going to kick myself.

[Caerfanan]

I dunno, Don. A 2.01 patch exists for the MTW:VI Gold Edition (MTW + VI in the same game) on the official site, which is already effective in the Total War: Eras box(the one I have installed), but not in a Gold Edition bought before.

I'll check how my king's influence goes every turn on my current campaign from now on to tell you if I see something weird.

I noticed that I had really low influence kings while having huge empires though, so my first guess would be that the problem hasn't been solved.

[Don Corleone]

I will have to check that when I get home. Would suck to try to restart at this point though. Maybe just a post-it for when I finish/tire with this campaign.

Well, Lady Luck was with me. That German prince just couldn't keep his hands off my daughter, and the Emperor felt obliged to do the right thing. It worked for him as well, because on the next turn, he got into it with the Italians (no idea who started it or if any territory has been lost) and the turn after that, the French unsuccessfully attempted to take Lorraine.

I'm using the breathing period to build up my trade fleet. I've got a port and a trading post in Sweden and Denmark. Holding off on a trading post in Friesland till I get to Biscay (only port that would actually buy wool at this point is Finland). Likewise, trying to get Pomerania's port & trading post up & running.

I'm poised at the Norwegian border with my 2nd prince (Eric). When his brother takes over, he's going to take Norway. Sucks not having those Norwegian vikings yet (it's 1111) but all in due time. I have to keep reminding myself I don't actually need them yet either.

Hmm, call me self-destructive, but all of a sudden both Brandenburg and Flanders have started calling to me. Must resist temptation.....:sweatdrop:

[Vladimir]

It sounds like you've put yourself into an interesting bind. Interesting as it must be fun and those coastal lands must be nice and a bind as in you ignored good Danish strategy. A safe, if less fun, start is to take over Scandinavia, limit your frontlines by only taking the land south of Denmark, becoming a naval power, and surgical strikes. It should be interesting to see how it turns out; make some submissions into the Pics and History thread.

[Adrian II]

Well, Lady Luck was with me.You can say that again! Both Saxony and Friesland are GA homelands to the Germans in Early. They are only 1-pointers, but still. Pomerania is not a GA homeland yet (it only becomes that in Late), hence my advice to conquer this first -- that is, as long as it is in rebel hands.

Gerry must have his hands full if he leaves you alone and even grants you an alliance, i.e. he must have a Crusade going a well as one or more wars. A war over Lorraine with the French would be a given at this stage, but if the English have allied with the French (it does happen, contrary to popular belief ~D) the Kaiser may have a hard time and this would explain the leeway you get.

Hmm, this makes me want to start another Danish campaign and try your approach.

[seireikhaan]

Hey, recently started a campaing with the danish early/hard/conquest. At the start, I waited one turn to take sweden, using that turn to train a unit of archers in denmark. I invaded with just my King and the archers, and to my surprise, the swedes opted to fight. I defeated them handily, losing one RK in comparison their 120 dead or captured. Has anyone else had this happen? Usuallly they retreat to Norway.

[Don Corleone]

If you outnumer or have equal numbers than the rebels, they retreat. If you have less, they'll stay. If you had invaded with just 1 viking unit and the knights, AFAIR they stick around and fight. Damn Poles took Pomerania. When Olaf I died (finally, at age 71!!!) Olaf II took over. My influence dropped from 7 to 3. :no:

So, I invaded Lithuania. I'm having a hard time keeping it from rebelling long enough to siege the fort, guess I'm going to have to storm it. Interestingly, even though I haven't take over the keep yet, Olaf II went up to 4 influence. Better hurry up and take Livonia, Scotland and/or Ireland (any 2 of the 3) in the next couple of turns. Olaf II's oldest son, prince Sweyn is 10. I've only got 6 years to get my influence up to 6 or higher (where I've found to be the comfort zone for decent heirs).

I hate kings living into their late 60's, early 70's. It can wreak havok on your line of heirs, as many times, I find the crown prince doesn't actually have sons until he ascends to the throne (which might be age 47, as in Olaf II's case). I hope I'm right about Sweyn, and he's not a brother, but I checked the prince list before and after the transition, and I don't remember seeing Sweyn in the list under Olaf I. Will let you know in about 6 years, when he either passes his uncles in line to the throne, or he stays behind all his brothers.

[seireikhaan]

Not true, at least for me. I have invaded the first turn w/ the king and one unit of vikes and they always seem to retreat to norway. As for your king's age problem, yeah, i've had worse than even that. I've had a king live to 82, with the heir taking over at the age of 64!

[Adrian II]

If you outnumer or have equal numbers than the rebels, they retreat. If you have less, they'll stay.Not exactly. It is not a matter of numbers, but of combat strength. I looked into this when I wrote my Danish mini-guide because there had been a discussion about ways to take Sweden.

The answer is fairly simple: the Vikings in Sweden will fight as long as your combat strength does not exceed theirs.

In order to find out, you can consult the Unit Comparison Tool (http://totalwar.co.kr/medieval/indexx.htmlUnit) of Clan Berserk. Click on ‘units’ icon in the overhead menu bar, insert your units and look at their Combat Ratings. In this case you get the following picture:

https://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7260/swedishvikingsvsrkgt9.png (https://imageshack.us)

Of course this is counting without the Valour bonus of your Royals. Insert any bonuses and you can do the math as to what you can or can not bring if you want the Swedish Vikings to fight.

[seireikhaan]

Adrian II, thanks that was an excellent response, very informative. I had wondered if the game seemed to take archers less seriously than the vikes, though in that scenario, I think the archers were actually more useful than vikes. Thanks for the link, too. From now on I think I will almost always go w/ the archers and RK's on second turn, it worked quite well for me.

[Deus ret.]

I hate kings living into their late 60's, early 70's. It can wreak havok on your line of heirs, as many times, I find the crown prince doesn't actually have sons until he ascends to the throne (which might be age 47, as in Olaf II's case).
I had a similar experience while playing as the Danes! Seems like their kings are prone to a long life....but in the very same campaign I found out that marrying your heirs off to foreign princesses seemed to smoothen the transitions somewhat, as well as provide slightly better offspring. I wouldn't swear on it but the turn my heir took over with 52, I had only two more of his brethren in the heir list but when I checked again a few of years later, he had two sons of 7 and 12, respectively -- without a message notifying me of their birth. the only possible answer was that he had already fathered some children while he was married to this ...Aragonese princess? suppose she was.... quite logical to do so anyway instead of waiting until old mans' age!

[Adrian II]

Adrian II, thanks that was an excellent response, very informative. I had wondered if the game seemed to take archers less seriously than the vikes, though in that scenario, I think the archers were actually more useful than vikes. Thanks for the link, too. From now on I think I will almost always go w/ the archers and RK's on second turn, it worked quite well for me.No problem, greaterkhaan.

I see you followed Martok's advice from the Entrance Hall thread and came to the MTW section right away. Excellent. Oh yes, I remember you, we keep a close eye on all prospective Generals and Governors in the crowd.

The honour principle, which we inherited from the Shogun days, still reigns supreme here. You will find that there are many members who will bend over backwards to help others. You do the same. No matter how and on what topic, everybody has a talent or interesting snippet of info to share with us.
:bow:

[seireikhaan]

Personally, my favored route w/ the Danes is to dominate the waters. After taking scandinavia, I get my ships going and I immediately go for scotland, if the English haven't got it yet, and Ireland. While I am taking these, I flood the Baltic provs w/ bishops to get them a little more loyal. After taking scotland and Ireland, I go for Prussia, Pomerania, or Lithuania, whichever is the first one that cuts off Poland. I continue north and east until I run into novgorod. If they, as they seem to do a lot of, have knocked themselves out early on, then I take all of the Baltics to try to prevent a reemergence and to get more trade. Once these are consolidated, I bide my time, perhaps taking Saxony if HRE falls into civil war. When the french and english go at it, which they will inevitably do, I ally w/ the French so I can grab the british isles. Once my navy reaches far enough, I take portugal, since it always seems to rebel on either Almos or Spanish. Then, after I have portugal under wraps, I take the Iberian Peninsula getting Navarre, Aragon, and somewhere in Africa as the borders there. From then on, pick off who gets weak in the west, avoiding more eastern expansion to let someone else wear down the Mongols. Then, steamroll to victory.

[Adrian II]

Personally, my favored route w/ the Danes is to dominate the waters.Sure. You need the waters in order to bolster your income early on, and if you play in GA mode you are going to need to max that trade income to 6000 a year in High anyway.

However, unlike you I would not go for Saxony early on. Saxony is part of the German GA conditions. In my experience, if you take Saxony the HRE will pursue you to the ends of the earth if they can. That is, if they manage to beat off the French and/or Italians, etcetera. Of course you never know in advance if they will. If so, then it's slam, bam, bye bye Olaf...

[seireikhaan]

You may have misunderstood me. I will go for Saxony if and ONLY IF I can visibly tell that the HRE is in a bind/ a civil war, wich is fairly common for them. That's the second reason for a navy, so you can coincide your assault at a time when they are already busy warring w/ someone else. It takes the HRE a long time to get all of their troop mobilized because most of their provinces are landlocked. Also, you can help to induce a civil war to cripple their efforts with a scorched earth plan. If I decide to take saxony, I will hire any worthy mercenaries and burn a path of provinces, leaving only a small garrison of vikings in each prov. By continually hitting weak provs(there will be some), you can lower the emperor's influence to the point where there will be a civil war, sometimes two in a span of ten years. Once I accomplish this, I disband the mercs and withdraw my forces to Saxony to maintain the single border. By this point, either the emperor is begging for peace or too weak to launc an effective counterattack.

[Alouette]

It takes a lot longer to spool up as the Danes than a lot of countries, because you are so cash poor early. Even with a hard trading start (rush Sweden and Norway, use all three to spam boats), I ran short of cash early in the 12th Century.

As of 1168, though, I've grabbed Ireland, Scotland and Prussia, have Silver/Black v1 Vikings and Silver/Black FK's rolling out, and very strong trade income. The only problem is that I have a lot of people to be "careful" of, for fear of losing my trade routes. A war with Britain, for instance, cuts me off from everything. So it's Novgorod or bust, and the Novvies have more troops than anyone on the map except perhaps the eggies (who have all the initial Turkish possessions, the Turks have taken alot of the former Byz stuff, and the Byz are in Crimea only).

My top general is only a star above theirs, too.

[Alouette]

Further on:

I'm about to hit High now, and the bloody English forced a war on me and destroyed my economy (headed for 0 in the bank currently after topping out above 120K). But I own the British Isles now, and have added Saxony, Pomerania, Finland, Novgorod, and Muscovy on the Continent.

The Egyptians, Spanish, and Italians have all expanded a lot; Spain has everything it started with plus Portugal and all the Almo lands, Egypt has virtually everything from Egypt north around the eastern Med and Black sea through Kiev, though they keep getting Crusaded out of Byzantium, and Italy has taken the Hungarian and HRE lands in southern europe, plus a couple of sicilian islands.

I caused a civil war in Novgorod with my first wave; unfortunately the rebels won and that means another (conservatively estimating) 3000 Boyars in their army, and half that many Alans. Fortunately my vikings are so heavily armored they can go toe to to with any damn thing. (Silver/Bronze).

The Brits weren't so much dangerous as expensive, since they completely cut me off from the Med. I finally axed their fleet, though, so the Italians are next once I link up again.

[Alouette]

So far, I've basically survived Early on a diet of nothing but Vikings and FK's, plus random troops I've bribed here and there to get high-star commanders in their stacks.

Any ideas on where to go from here? My current plan is just to go for Gold/gold viking + Chiv Knights + Pav Arbs when they're available. Any reason NOT to?

[Martok]

Any ideas on where to go from here? My current plan is just to go for Gold/gold viking + Chiv Knights + Pav Arbs when they're available. Any reason NOT to?
No specific advice, except that I would definitely keep an eye on the Spanish. Since they now own most/all of Iberia, they'll probably expand northwards into French territory; you may share a border with them before you know it.

[Alouette]

OK, I'm officially annoyed.

1. Norton auto restart killed my position from last night, which wasn't a big deal I was only playing for half an hour.

Bigger deal:

2. The bloody Egyptians. There is nothing I hate more than the rule that in simultaneous attacks, the ally with the bigger initial army gets the province. They bloody fled the field against Novgorod, inflicting little if any damage, I stick around and bloody up the grand army and then they keep the province? They ran away -half an hour ago-...

There is a ready made cure for the Egyptians coming in the form of the Horde in 25 years or so, however. I can nab anything I want from them while they get hit by the Horde.

Is there any way to prevent that result above where they get the province? I couldn't declare war because there were no units to attack - they had fled.

[Heidrek]

I'm playing the Danes for the first time in the High age campaign and noticed that staring in the High age is a huge disadvantage for them comapred to Early. The reason is simple - Vikings. Only vanilla Vikings are available in High age onwards, no landsmen or huscarles! the best thing about the Danes is their viking troops crushing all resistance.

Going from 1 little province to conquering the known world is pretty awesome, and even in High and late, vanilla Vikings continue to be very useful troops that you can make anywhere to keep your war machine going, but it struck me that the Danes lose a lot of power by starting in High.

At least in the early camp. you c=get the chance to build Huscarles and Landsmen until the High age starts, so you can "stock up" on them. Being denied Huscarles means you lose your best melee troops, a unit that can dominate almost all other infantry regardless of age, especially with weapon and armour upgrades from Sweeden.

Are there any other factions that dramatically rise/fall in power as the ages change?

[Heidrek]

I've taken a somewhat different strategy to many others with the Danes.

1. Took Sweeden and Norway. Denmark produced a couple of garrison units then starts pumping up longboats.

2. Took Scotland for the Val +1 clansmen. Cheap and nasty troops that pack a big punch. While Scotland build a port so I can get my army back out of there I'm building a force of more vikings in Scandanavia.

3. Concious of money being a big issue, and the fact that I can field a bigger and better army than most if I can only afford it, I start lloking for good income generating provinces. Lithuania has 3 trade resources so it's next on the block. I Take it, hold it, build a couple of garrison units, loyalty generating improvemnts a port and trader.

4. My ships from Denmark are now spreading out around europe towards spain. I notice that Livonia and Novgorod both have 2 trade resouces each, so make good additions to my growing trade empire. i take and hold them after a few difficult battles then concentrate on consolidation for a bit.

5. Before long, I'm making very ggod profits from my expanding trade empire and start picking up provinces that rebell against their former owners. after a while, England attacks me and i drive them out of britain, then take Flanders, which has fallen to a rebellion, the french having been mauled and only surviving thanks to their Crusade conquered Constantinoble. I now have 3 provinces with 3 resources and a number of other 2 trade goods provinces, so the cash is rolling in. My navy has reached italy by now and continues to slowly expand. I'm at 100K florrins at this point, while both my armiesa nd province infrastructures continue to grow rapidly

6. The Spanish get excommunicated, and I send a couple of inquisitors to spain. They merrily burn generals turn by turn, and I think cause a few rebellions. In any case, most of spain is so in rebellion so I pick up a couple of their provinces and bribe a couple more. Nothing is more staisfying that having a single rebel army in a province you want and "buying" it for a couple of thousand florrins. You get the province, and a garrison army thrown in for good measure!

7. After buying/taking all of spain I start facing attacks from Egypt. after turning back a couple of Jihands I decide to take the fight to them and invade the desserts. My income is taking a severe hit now, I'm hovering around 50K but I've taken and sacked Morrocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

I intend to keep going for a while, perhaps until the egyptian are thorougly conquered. My navy allows me to get reinforcement from other provinces pretty easily and still have garrisons holding the conquered teritories so I have a retreat path if necessary.

As long as I stay out of a war with italy, who are about the only ones that can challenge me in the water, I should be able to choke and dominate the other factions and proceed to victory.

[wumpus]

You know, you can expand your empire moderately fast using emissaries. And money. Here's how: send you emissary/emissaries to the Slavic provinces: Lithuania, wherever. (They're rebel provinces, so you can't start a war with any world power, nor irritate the Pope.) Then use your money to bribe generals. Bribe provinces that have only one army. If there are two armies in a province, they'll fight each other and cause you problems. Once you get a province, build income-generating structures and bribe more Slavic provinces, maybe you'll get to the easternmost ones soon. And build more income for bribery. Don't take Norway yet. Its farms are poor. Anyway, since you're playing Denmark, nobody else is able to get there without any ships. Take it later in the game, to enable you to build Huscarls, but not for money-making. Taking Sweden early is okay, to generate more income. And you can get Huscarls there too. Woo Novogorod and Byzantium to be your allies--you don't want an early quarrel with them. But build strong garrison troops along the way, just in case. And make some of those fabulous Longboats. Maybe you can take Scotland too, but only if the English didn't get there first. Avoid early fights. You won't know it, very soon your empire is now 5 to 8 provinces! NOW you're ready to really start rocking.
I tried this strategy 3 or 4 times before, and it worked well for me.
Hawooh.

[seireikhaan]

Actually, Norway is rather good for income, you just need to set up a good trade route. Two trade goods and a merchants guild can haul in a pretty nice chunk of change. Plus, v1 vikings are extremely good, and all you need is the fort, so you can spam them just a bit and go conquering the Baltics, much cheaper than bribing. The only province I would bribe would be Livonia, just to have the extra garrison there to help keep down rebellion. Plus, it has some nice troops, including crossbowmen, IIRC.

[Master Young Phoenix]

I tried the Danish several times unsuccesfully because they are a bit different in approach... I made a few mistakes with constructing buidlings and units and Poland beat me to Brandenburg and Prussia... my economy dropped into the red and didn't recover.

the last time I went for the fleets immediately and only recruited a few soldiers to conquer Sweden and Norway... just as my treasury began getting below 1000 the ships hit the waves and I had clear routes to the baltic rebels and Scotland.
Soon my empire received massive money from trade, and Sweden was the hub of it all. Sweden is a major cash-cow for both farming and trade, excellent.
Then I warred with Poland and the English who were being slaughtered by my allies the French.

With other factions I like to roleplay a proud and agrassive ruler who is quickly insulted ("what? You're Daughter not good enough for my mighty son? I'll Kill you!!!"), as the Merchant-Prince of Denmark, my temper was far more stable as war greatly reduces trade... which I found when the French became my enemies. I destroyed the bastards who messed up my income...

I discontinued the campaign, I sufficiently changed history ;)

[mps247]

Sweden is the best province for making cash, and should definitely be the first province you invade.

I find that some players prefer to grab Norway and then proceed to take Scotland. I prefer to take Lithuania, as it is a far better money making machine than Scotland once you have got your trade empire up and running.

In early, Finland, Livonia, Prussia and Pomerania are all good provinces to take as they are rebel held, and produce commodities that can be traded. They are also closer to Denmark than Scotland, making your life easier. Normally, Novgorod take Finland before you can get there. If you don't want to go to war with them, then put some spies in their province. They normally keep a very small garrison there, and don't build watch towers or a border fort. The province should rebel, and then you can grab it without loosing any valour.

The only problem with this strategy is the many borders you will have to defend. However, you should be getting enough money from trade to support such costs.

[wumpus]

Something funny when I play Danish (but I've no complaints about it--it works fine for me): As you can see, aside from Sweden and Norway, the only other direction my "walking" armies can go is through Saxony to get to the rest of Europe. Of course, Saxony belongs to HRE (the Germans). So I've to go to war with the Germans if I want to expand (I mean, if I won't use my emisaries to bribe rebels to bypass the Germans). But the funny thing is, I'll be at war with the Germans for a few turns, then they sue for a ceasefire. Of course, I accept gladly! Why shouldn't I? The HRE has the strongest military force at this early stage of the campaign. But I find the giant HRE asking for peace with the pipsqueak (at this stage) Denmark. Do you think the Pope has something to do with urging a ceasefire? Hawooh.

[Martok]

It's certainly possible that the Papacy's influence has an effect. I would say, however, that probably the major factor is that the HRE doesn't want to be at war with more factions than it can help....especially since it knows it's usually going to end up at war with the French, their biggest and most dangerous rival.

[seireikhaan]

It's certainly possible that the Papacy's influence has an effect. I would say, however, that probably the major factor is that the HRE doesn't want to be at war with more factions than it can help....especially since it knows it's usually going to end up at war with the French, their biggest and most dangerous rival.
And Polish and Hungarians and Italians and English...:sweatdrop:

[bonnere]

hi,
i'm glad that there are people still playing this wonderfull game.
i'm playing it from long time and i cant stop.

i play for the moment the danish empire so i will post my point of view here, wainting for a debate...maybe.

so:
build first money generating buildings (+20,+40) not the trade ones. not yet.
build peasents because you need to control the new lands and they are the best troop for the buck.
build peasent in danemark and +20 farm
i attack sweden in first turn only with king. charging head to head statisticaly was the best option. find peasents with 4 ecumen and make it governor.
build control buildings, forts, towers, ...
when you got the first heir, attack norvay with 2 RK and one viking. (till now you build only peasents.
you mantain control with peasents, and put the best of them governors.
you should have 3-4 peasents in norway and sweden, your knights and viking + spearmen back in danemark.
by now Danemark should be on the way for longboats. accept allinaces from everybody except english and germans. they are the next targets.
as fast as the germans are involved in any war, attack saxony. wait a few turns and they will want peace. accept it.
set sail for ships to England ... build in norway as many vikings as you can.
best it is that england beats the french in europe, or at least keep his lands there. this way papality doesnt bother about you attacking england.
attack in one turn 3 english countrys, wessex, northumbria and mercia.
you should have enough heirs and vikings to do that. mantain control with the peasents. build control buidings, then financial ones.
wales and scotland are likely to revolt after your strike, that the best. any way attack them and keep them. you must act fast, because if english remain without lands in france, you get bugged by pope.
after you take ireland, and your ships arrive in Italy you can take a breath.
this is a fast developing and i didnt explain all because most things has been allready spoken here.
i use danemark for longboats and archery (in 1205 be sure you have master archery here). in norway swords class infantry. in sweden spear class infantry. in saxony cavalry class. why? because in danemark you allready have archery, and building ships cant make you have anything else building.
in norway swords, for the +1 valor of vikings. in sweden spears for the blacksmith bonus, that i find it usefull to this low attack weapon class.
in saxony cavalry because germans allready buid there horse farm.

in england i build shipwright and taverns that my original countrys are not bugged by this troop production. by the time your shipps get to antioch, you get a large income,only 2 defending armys, and the best troops available.

from here it is up to you. i play the "guardian of papality" role. who gets excomunicated, i destroy (french, sicilians, italians) these are the most posible
targets. i target almohads.. tear them down till egyptians. here i wait for mongols. when they initial energy is absorbed by local owners, i move in .

so, easly you can master: England, Nordic countrys, from Spain till Constantinopole, and Khazar. + some excomunicated catolic countrys.
that with only ... erm ... 6 defensive armies?

here some hints:
i use:
1)longboats, for their low cost and +1 valor in danemark. i try to make longboats in 3 different contrys to keep advancing every year, till i hit antioch. wessex is the second country, because it has allready a shipwright.
2)peasents, only in the begining, England and scadinavian countrys. and thats for the low cost. after this i use thrals or militia. they are much better fighters.
3)vikings, in the beggining and in the end. in the beggining because they are tough and cheap. till you get england. after that you get enough money for better versiona huscarls or landsman. after 1205 you lose this versions. so, you remain with chivalris swords. in the desert i use vikings, or galowglasses.
4)horseman, the light cavalry. it is ok. build it till mounted seargents. and then knights.

i dont use:
1)archers, useless, instead i try to get bulgarian brigands. the come offten, and are great. also, i use with danish armys smaller quantaty of archers. i use 2 in defending armys, none in offensive. after i get arbalesters i use 4. adding one more arquebusiers when time has come.
2)viking carls, the cheaper variant of feudal man at arms. vikings are better.
3)the second danish cavalry, cant remember the name. it sucks big time. avoid it.

i dont detaliate the late period because there are many posibilities and the weapons are known from other factions.
this is it.

[jsberry]

THE GNOMES OF DENMARK

Period: Late

Goal: Control the entire map by 1400.

This period is good for the Danes because there are more ports in existence, so you get the early trade routes going faster. France/Britain/Germany will smash each other, Spain will concentrate on Iberia and Africa, and the Mongols will fight everybody else, so nobody will come after little Denmark.

PHASE 1: Collect Underpants
Invade Sweden on turn 1.
Invade Norway after 1 Chiv Spearmen from Denmark and 1 Swedish woodsmen can arrive.
Invade Lithuania with forces from Livonia ASAP or the Mongols will get it.
Upgrade economics in each, and build longboats in Denmark.
Don't worry about land forces now - nobody will attack.

PHASE 2: Establish Global Trading Empire
Build longboats in Denmark and at least one other province.
Don't start any wars - the other navies will break your trade routes.
Build only moderate land forces - the upkeep cost is not worth the need right now.
I like Vikings in Norway, woodsmen in Sweden, spearmen in Livonia/Lithuania.
Usual battle plan is spear-wall with viking/woodsmen flankers and heirs as general/reserve
Meanwhile, take easy pickings like Scotland (and Novgorod after the Mongols weaken them).

PHASE 3: Profit
Stretch the longboat chain to at least the Adriatic, if not Egypt.
In Denmark, upgrade to cogs to defend the homeland.
Soon you get to the point where you make more money than you know what to do with.

PHASE 4: Establish Global Domination Through Opportunistic Attacks
By now, France/England/Germany will be beaten down like boxers after a 10-round fight. Pick and chose your target based on whoever has the weakest navy (your navy is built for trading not fighting). The Mongols will have withered enough so that the forces in Livonia/Novgorod can sweepsoutheasterly, using Lithuania as a fulcrum point. The global fleet provide the ability to strike anywhere. And after you take anywhere, you can build vikings there!

The main problem is to avoid boredom after it gets so easy.

[Seabourch]

With the Danes its simple. Keep Denmark well garrisoned to deter the HRE or whoevers occupying Saxony and rampage across Scandinavia. Then expand eastwards across the North and Baltic seas. Build up a trading empire with the British Isles in the west( Maybe add Normandy if you want to reclaim all the Viking lands :) ) , the rich Steppe provinces( Novgorod and Crimean region). Then, you will rule the world.

[Shaden]

LTRFTW

MTW-VI/Early/Expert

Was trying to see if it's possible to get gold/gold huscarles before they disappear. It's tricky but it's do-able.

First off you need to hurl everything into Sweden. The AI retreats to Norway. Immediately set to building a fort in Sweden. Pull your king back to Denmark and make vikings there. Then, suicidal as it sounds, you need to attack the HRE, preferably before they build forts in their northern provinces. Spam vikings and the odd archer unit from Denmark and keep pushing at the HRE further south. At the very least you need to take Saxony, Friesland, Brandenburg and Franconia off them. These will be your money-producing provinces.

I've done this three times now and have usually enjoyed good success. On one occasion they stopped me at the Alps but had to cede all of Germany to me. On the other occasions I've cleaved straight down to Provence and a warm water port, or Venice and a warm water port and they've been so badly mauled they've sued for peace. The Pope turns a blind eye for 15-20 years, doesn't say a word to me.

Build farmland in your German provinces, and fleet production facilities in Saxony, Friesland and any other coastal provinces you've captured. DO NOTHING BUT TECH FOR HUSCARLES IN SWEDEN AND DENMARK. Once you have huscarles, tech for the armour in Denmark, the weapons in Sweden. By concentrating on nothing else in those two provinces you can get to gold weapons by 1194 in Sweden and gold armour earlier in Denmark. REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING ELSE DO NOT PAUSE ON YOUR BUILD REQUIREMENTS IN SWEDEN. Money will be tight but you should be able to have no build delays for your Swedish tech tree. You can afford to skip a few years in Denmark, enough time to add a church for extra morale perhaps. You should be able to get ten units of gold/gold huscarles out before you can't manufacture anymore. In addition you'll have as many or more gold/silver or silver/gold huscarles as well. I use these as reservoirs of replacements for the gold/gold huscarles. I place two gold/gold huscarles and two lesser teched ones in an army. The gold/golds do the fighting, losses are replaced from the tag-along units. You can end up with some mighty warriors this way. :smash:

NB. One of your ten huscarle units will likely be Snorri Sturlson, a 4* Danish hero. I've had him every time in my games. Hope this interests any lovers of the huscarle unit. :beam:

[gollum]

The danes can conquer vast amounts of territories if one is knowable of their "strengths" ie cheap and accessible longships and vikings. However the first time that i played them i was not and ended up trying to expand around the baltic, facing the Novgorodians, eventually defeating them, and then trying to expand all over Russia. However i noticed at some point that the Byzantines with which i was contesting russia had dissapeared, and wondered what happened to them, when the Mongols in full strength appeared...

That was a terribly desperate campaign in which i fought for every piece of land that i have taken, trying to tech up to arbs in the process, and unable at that stage to do viking raiding as many other kingdoms had taken it to the seas and were actually very string there.

Quite a campaign.