Hungary

[Cheetah]

HUNGARY — EARLY
Invade Venice. Move your king and as much of your army as you can gather to Croatia on the first turn and invade Venice on the second. Send your emissary to the Italian Doge.

The Italians always accept a ceasefire after you seize Venice. It is illogical, I admit, but it happens. Offer them a princess too.

Getting Venice gives you rich trade province with a shipbuilder and a way to prevent your empire from becoming a recruiting ground for everybody else's Crusade.

Now conquer the barbarian provinces of Serbia, Moldavia and Walachia with horse archers. Peasants and spears can be shot to pieces without losses. Move fast, though, before the Poles and Byzantines get any ideas. Your biggest problem will be finding enough garrison troops.

If you are lucky and quick, you can invade Bohemia and Austria before the Holy Roman Empire can afford forts there. You will get a warning from the Pope, but the HRE will make peace and you will have two nice provinces.

Slav infantry from Croatia, horse archers and Szekely from Hungary and jobbagy's from everywhere are the main units of an early Hungarian army. Upgrade to get Slav javelins rather than jobbagy as soon as possible.

Javelin units are not easy to use, but practice. Javelins and Szekely are the key to kicking the Byzantines out of Constantinople and Greece. No other faction rewards tactical micro skill as much as the Hungarians do.

Now you have a very nice empire that consists of all Europe south of Poland, including the major metropolitan centers of Venice and Constantinople. Order a few buildings and Constantinople can build feudal sergeants and men-at-arms. You also get Avar nobles out of Moldavia, which are very nice indeed.

Avars are so good, there is a strong temptation to build more of them than you need. Their high maintenance cost can hamstring your economy. Look for a good balance of feudal sergeants, feudal men-at-arms, Szekely, Avars, and Slav javelins.
What happens next could depend on either Crusades or excommunication.

Crusades crossing your territory are a major pain for the Hungarians. Having a port in Venice and control of the seas all the way to the Holy Land relieves that a great deal. Crusader armies will go to Venice and ride your ships to their destinations.

Sometimes, they will stop in Hungary first to raid your troops, but you can usually avoid that by just moving your good units.
Crusades can be forced to provide some benefit. For instance, many garrison troops outlive their usefulness as your provinces increase in loyalty. Leave those units in areas where Crusades will drain them. Occasionally, a good governor’s candidate will be unearthed as units lose men and gain new commanders.

Now, as for excommunication: If the Pope excommunicates the Germans, for example, exploit that.

The Poles will attack you someday. Clobber them with your better units and grab Poland. Do not get excommunicated if you can avoid it. One trick is to get a warning about attacking some other Catholic country and then use the 10-year “one warning” interval to destroy the Poles.

There is a strong temptation to expand into Asia Minor, which can be done without excommunication risk. I like to get across the Baltic and grab Sweden instead, by bribery if necessary.

Reaching the Baltic and Sweden accomplishes several things. Mainly it prevents the French or some other major power from becoming dominant in Europe. There is nothing I hate more than conquering all the rich Muslim provinces, then seeing nothing but an uninterrupted field of blue, or red, or yellow or black or whatever from Spain to Sweden, including the British Isles.

Second, Sweden opens up trade opportunities from the Baltic. With shipbuilders on the Adriatic and the Baltic, it does not take long to set up a dominant trade empire. You also get to be a player in north European politics, helping one side or the other, attacking excommunicated factions and snatching desirable rebellious provinces for yourself, especially if a rival's Crusade fails. Once again, this prevents any side from becoming dominant — except you.

I tend to mass troops and build up defenses along the Prussia- Volhynia -Moldavia border. Most other Catholic powers are too busy fighting among themselves or Crusading to give me much trouble in the West.

Playing the Hungarians after the Early Era land-grab requires a certain amount of patience. There are no Crusades, making expansion of your forces gradual.

The end of the Early Era finds you with a stable, developed empire guarded by up-to-date units and enriched by trade, stretching from Scandinavia to the Aegean. Build up your defenses in Moldavia and Volhynia. There is no stopping you once you have weathered the Golden Horde


EDITED: to include the summery compiled by Doug-Thompson.

[Cheetah]

high

[Cheetah]

late

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:49)]early
MTW/ VI, early, GA-goals.

The Hungarians are squeezed between a rock (BYZ) and not one but two hard places (HRE & Italians). Taking on either one will be tough. Since I always play GA-style this one is pretty much a turtle-game.

My order of priorities:
*Peace with all neighbours before any offensive move.
*Military build-up in Hungary only on early. Initial que is usually in this order: WT, Bowyer, Spearmaker, Horse Breeder
*Money upgrades in Cro&Car and for all conquered provs. Que usually looks like this: WT, Fort, +20%, (mines), (ports), BF, +40%, (mine complex) Then I first switch to military buildings in thoose provs that have an unique feat like Bulgaria with Brigands etc. Since none of Hungary´s initial provs or the three rebel provs has any unique feats I just and Cro&Car to my military building provs.
*Take out the three reb prov instantly with your king and the extisting 4 HA´s that you have from the start.

The start of the game for me looks much like this:
1087AD Que the buildings mentioned above in your original three provs.
1089 AD Serbia conquered and que´s the same que as C&C.
1091AD Wallachia conquered. Same que as above.
1092AD Moldavia conquered. Same que as above.

As soon as each prov has a fort I use peasants or slavic warrior as gov´s. Farm them until each prov has atleast +5 acc, don´t settle for less.
The conquered provs of Serbia and Moldavia get´s a priority of building ships while Wallachia is used for training agents.

Military:
Initially HA´s, later Szekely´s, are the key to Hungarian warfare. On early defensive situations I use a spearwall of 6 units to protect 6 archers and outflank the enemy with 4 units of HA´s (later Szekely). When the 6 archers are finished I replace them with 6 new ones and 4-6 SK´s to handle the final melee.
Offensively I can easily go with an etire SK-army. It´s fun, fast and highly manouverable.

At this point you should have a fairly stable kingdom and from here I tend to take on the rock - Byzantium. Bulgaria, Greece and finally Constantiopel are brought into the Hungarian realm. It´s though but really awardable. Good luck

[SpencerH]

The Hungarians are the toughest faction I've played (MTW/VI of course) since they are landlocked with powerfull neighbors.

Just one add on to Cheetah's early game strategy, take Kiev It has two trade goods and access to Lithuania (three trade goods) and from there you have access to the other rich Baltic trade states. The downside to Kiev though is that you'll face the Horde soon after their appearance.

[GoldenKnightX2]

The Hungarians were tough for me as well, I didn't get attacked by Bynzantium but HRE, The Italians, The Polish, and Egyptians(after they got rid of Bynzantium and became superpower), I almost got crushed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

I respectfully disagree.

Invade Venice. Move your king and as much of your army as you can gather to Croatia on the first turn and invade Venice on the second.

The Italians always accept a ceasefire. It's illogical, I admit, but it happens.

Getting Venice gives you two things: a rich trade province on the sea and a shipbuilder, and a way to prevent your empire from becoming a recruiting ground for everybody else's Crusade.

Neither Serbia nor Croatia have trade goods. Moldavia and Kiev do, but you have to build harbors, keeps, trade centers, ship builders and then ships.

After securing Venice and giving the Italians a princess to keep them happy, conquering the barbarian provinces with horse archers is a snap. Peasants and spears lacking archery units can be shot to pieces without losses. Serbia, Moldavia and Wallachia should all fall to you. Move fast, though, before the Poles and Byz get any ideas. Your biggest problem will be finding enough garrison troops for them.

Slav infantry from Croatia, horse archers and Szekely from Hungary and jobbagy's from everywhere are the main units of an early Hungarian army.

Javelin units are not easy to use, but after some practice they and Szekely are the key to kicking the Byz out of Constantinople and Greece.

Now you have a very nice empire that consists of all Europe south of Poland. You also get Avar nobles out of Moldavia, which are very nice indeed. What happens next could depend on either Crusades or excommunication.

Crusades crossing your territory are a major pain for the Hungarians. Having a port in Venice and control of the seas all the way to the Holy Land relieves that a great deal. Crusader armies will go to Venice and ride your ships to their destinations. Sometimes, they'll stop in Hungary first to raid your troops, but you can usually avoid that by just moving your army. If the Poles or somebody invades Hungary, destroy them.

Now, as for excommunication: If the Germans, for instance, get excommunicated, then take advantage of that by all means.

There's a lot of room to expand into Asia Minor and the Muslim world, all of which can be done without any excommunication risk at all. You've already crippled the Byz and the Egyptians are battered with Crusades. By the time you're in North Africa, the Almohads have probably been beaten up by the Spanish.

However, I prefer to attack the Holy Roman Empire, sheepishly obey my warning from the Pope. — then attack and destroy Poland. You get only one warning at a time, after all. Destroying Poland gives you another province that produces Szekely — Volhalnia (sp?) — and it splits Europe in two. I like to get across the Baltic ASAP and grab Sweden.

Reaching the Baltic and Sweden accomplishes several things. Mainly it prevents the French or some other major power from becoming dominant in Europe. There's nothing I hate more than conquering all the rich Muslim provinces, then seeing nothing but an uninterrupted field of blue, or red, or yellow or black or whatever from Spain to Sweden, including the British Isles.

Second, it opens up trade opportunities from the Baltic. With shipbuilders on the Adriatic and the Baltic, it doesn't take long to set up a dominant trade empire. You also get to be a player in north European politics, helping one side or the other and attacking excommunicated factions in a balance of power game that, once again, prevents any side from becoming dominant. You also get to snatch desirable rebellious provinces for yourself, which again prevents anybody else from becoming top dog -- except you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Then the Golden Horde comes. Once the horde is beaten, there's nothing to stop you from taking over all of Russia.

[katank]

hmm. I frankly go for the neutrals first and beat the Poles to Volhynia.

this means that I can have three provinces capable of szeks right away and moldavia should definitely build horse breeder before town watch, spear, keep, and armourer.

this makes for 16 szeks out of moldavia and volhynia can produce szeks nonstop to free up hungary for building things like FMAA that would later be able to take advantage of iron.

@ doug, I haven't tried Venice opening.

are the Italians really likely to retreat and make peace? Also, this means a longer border with the HRE. I would otherwise have 4 province border in the west (after killing Poles) but this would extend it to 5.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 05 2004,16:34)]are the Italians really likely to retreat and make peace? Also, this means a longer border with the HRE. I would otherwise have 4 province border in the west (after killing Poles) but this would extend it to 5.
Incredible? Yes, but true. It's the darnedest thing.

As for the border problem, taking Austria and Bohemia from the Germans after crippling the Byz solved that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

German peasants and spears retreated from my HA without a battle. Then the Germans readily took the offer of a princess. It was Deja Vu all over again.

[katank]

lucky you.

I now see your concept of medieval diplomacy:

1) trash their lands with your armies.

2) offer a chick to appease them

very simple http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[garion]

When attacking the byzantines in early, be ware of their good generals and high quality armies. try to raid their rovines and destroy everything they have before you retreat. If oyur army is in bad shape, destroy constantinopel. You will go into history as the greatest *ss ever but he, who cares?
If you have a good army, try to gain constantinopel and keep it for yourself. It will save a lot of money and time because they already have a citadel. This will cripple the byzantines (probably they'll even sue for peace-good valour doesn't mean good brains) and you easliy become the most advanced faction in the game

that's 50

[ichi]

As discussed above, there are several openings, and I think it matters less the order in which you take certain provinces, but it is important to get a firm grip on the triangle of land from Kiev to Venice to Constantinople.

Then I have a tendency to go island hopping and then into the Turkish lands and the Middle East.

I have a tendency to play opportunitistically, depending on who my allies are, who is at war, who is struggling. I do not attack allies, try to get rebel provinces first, wait until a faction is hurting then strike.

But by all means get Kiev and Constantinople and Venice as soon as possible, and then hold and solidify and build.

I like to go with Szeks and HAs early on. Those badass Byz Kataphraktoi Gens are best handled from a distance. They are also good against the Mongols.

Bulgaria is good for Slavs as garrison troops. Get some javelinmen to hold the bridge in Kiev.

I go slow with Hungary, try to stay allied or neutral with everybody and build navies in two provinces - establish ships in the Black and eastern Med first. Keep Poland happy until after the Horde has been handled.

Let the Crusades pass thru and build up my training infrastructure. Then after the Horde pik off the eastern and southern parts of the map, then up thru Spain, the British Isles, Scandinavia, then finish off with Wester Europe and el Popo.

ichi

[katank]

yep, the AI's tendency to retreat has led them to abandon Const. a few times.

Although I had little chances of holding it, I never had the heart to raze that golden city to the ground.

I actually won a few of those crazy defensive battles and my gen. got skilled poor odds defender.

reminder.

javs are good against the byz.

have some slavs or spears hold them for enough time to target them with jobbagies from the rear.

those varangian don't look so tough when suddenly they are down 40 men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

then the rest of the army gets tired being run ragged by szeks.

using the patented jav and HA technique, it's possible to actually do serious damage to the enemy.

beware of trebizonds is the only caution.

[Doug-Thompson]

HUNGARY — EARLY
Invade Venice. Move your king and as much of your army as you can gather to Croatia on the first turn and invade Venice on the second. Send your emissary to the Italian Doge.

The Italians always accept a ceasefire after you seize Venice. It is illogical, I admit, but it happens. Offer them a princess too.

Getting Venice gives you rich trade province with a shipbuilder and a way to prevent your empire from becoming a recruiting ground for everybody else's Crusade.

Now conquer the barbarian provinces of Serbia, Moldavia and Walachia with horse archers. Peasants and spears can be shot to pieces without losses. Move fast, though, before the Poles and Byzantines get any ideas. Your biggest problem will be finding enough garrison troops.

If you are lucky and quick, you can invade Bohemia and Austria before the Holy Roman Empire can afford forts there. You will get a warning from the Pope, but the HRE will make peace and you will have two nice provinces.

Slav infantry from Croatia, horse archers and Szekely from Hungary and jobbagy's from everywhere are the main units of an early Hungarian army. Upgrade to get Slav javelins rather than jobbagy as soon as possible.

Javelin units are not easy to use, but practice. Javelins and Szekely are the key to kicking the Byzantines out of Constantinople and Greece. No other faction rewards tactical micro skill as much as the Hungarians do.

Now you have a very nice empire that consists of all Europe south of Poland, including the major metropolitan centers of Venice and Constantinople. Order a few buildings and Constantinople can build feudal sergeants and men-at-arms. You also get Avar nobles out of Moldavia, which are very nice indeed.

Avars are so good, there is a strong temptation to build more of them than you need. Their high maintenance cost can hamstring your economy. Look for a good balance of feudal sergeants, feudal men-at-arms, Szekely, Avars, and Slav javelins.
What happens next could depend on either Crusades or excommunication.

Crusades crossing your territory are a major pain for the Hungarians. Having a port in Venice and control of the seas all the way to the Holy Land relieves that a great deal. Crusader armies will go to Venice and ride your ships to their destinations.

Sometimes, they will stop in Hungary first to raid your troops, but you can usually avoid that by just moving your good units.
Crusades can be forced to provide some benefit. For instance, many garrison troops outlive their usefulness as your provinces increase in loyalty. Leave those units in areas where Crusades will drain them. Occasionally, a good governor’s candidate will be unearthed as units lose men and gain new commanders.

Now, as for excommunication: If the Pope excommunicates the Germans, for example, exploit that.

The Poles will attack you someday. Clobber them with your better units and grab Poland. Do not get excommunicated if you can avoid it. One trick is to get a warning about attacking some other Catholic country and then use the 10-year “one warning” interval to destroy the Poles.

There is a strong temptation to expand into Asia Minor, which can be done without excommunication risk. I like to get across the Baltic and grab Sweden instead, by bribery if necessary.

Reaching the Baltic and Sweden accomplishes several things. Mainly it prevents the French or some other major power from becoming dominant in Europe. There is nothing I hate more than conquering all the rich Muslim provinces, then seeing nothing but an uninterrupted field of blue, or red, or yellow or black or whatever from Spain to Sweden, including the British Isles.

Second, Sweden opens up trade opportunities from the Baltic. With shipbuilders on the Adriatic and the Baltic, it does not take long to set up a dominant trade empire. You also get to be a player in north European politics, helping one side or the other, attacking excommunicated factions and snatching desirable rebellious provinces for yourself, especially if a rival's Crusade fails. Once again, this prevents any side from becoming dominant — except you.

I tend to mass troops and build up defenses along the Prussia- Volhynia -Moldavia border. Most other Catholic powers are too busy fighting among themselves or Crusading to give me much trouble in the West.

Playing the Hungarians after the Early Era land-grab requires a certain amount of patience. There are no Crusades, making expansion of your forces gradual.

The end of the Early Era finds you with a stable, developed empire guarded by up-to-date units and enriched by trade, stretching from Scandinavia to the Aegean. Build up your defenses in Moldavia and Volhynia. There is no stopping you once you have weathered the Golden Horde.

[katank]

it's possible to grab Venice on the first turn using just Croatia garrison.

similarly, send HA in moldavia to shoot up the Moldavia spears.

you can shoot up 50-60 of them and not lose a single man before your ammo runs out.

repeat next year to conquer the province with virtually no casualties for early avars while having most of your army on the other side.

pump slavs like crazy as they are pretty good early on.

try and sack Const through Greece and Bulgaria.

bulgaria produces brigands which are unque to russians, byz, huns, and Poles.

Const is just great for early cathedral or whatever you want as well as early ship builder, very rich province, adn 2* to your fav general.

use slav javs or jobbagy in combo with szeks to destroy the Byz tanks.

[Oleander Ardens]

All great tips about how to play the Hungarians:


Reminds me of the grand thread about missle unit we had in the Mainhall; Was perhaps the finest thread about tactics I read here, at least I learned the most about the art of skirmishing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


Quote[/b] ]using the patented jav and HA technique, it's possible to actually do serious damage to the enemy

use slav javs or jobbagy in combo with szeks to destroy the Byz tanks.

glad to see that not only I have profited from it...


When I read this guides I'm more than keen to start a new Magyar game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif


@Doug: I too love to go to Sweden as fast as possible - tradecontrol and iron for those goodly Husacerls - what else do you want?

Together with
- the strongest and most versital fast cavalry unit in the game, the Szekely
- hoards of cheap and effective slav warriors
- access to two cheap armorkiller from a distance: Slav Jav and Jobbagies
- a costeffectice antiarmor shockunit: Woodsman
- a surpreme heavy cavalry: AvarNoble
- a heavily armored HA: the Steppes
- a fast archer with small shield: BB

there is nothing you aren't prepared to take on http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[katank]

I'm also a sucker for Scandanavia.

I tend to bribe Norway though right away.

then, I conquer Sweden and try to juggle my force to keep both provinces.

recent times I tired this, I had three way battles between me, rebels, and Danes who were my supposed allies.

I parked my trusty vikings in a forest and mauled the Danish RKs while a unit of rebel Huscarles was occupying the Danish infantry.

a nice rear attack ended with 4 units of Danish RKs entirely annihilated and the rest of the Danes routed off the field.

next turn, I'm informed that the Danes were wiped out as a faction and I got the stack in Denmark for 1500 florins.

it had a few landsmenn and normal vikigns but best of all was the intact keep and also produciton of thralls right away to help me with getting scandanavia under control.

early control of Venice gives you a ship yard in the south early on and Denmark will yield an early ship yard in the north.

once you get huscarles, particularly from sweden with weapons, you can fill the only gap in the Hun lineup that you described (heavy melee line infantry).

huscarles are the type that can hold the line and more like punching clean through the enemy center. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

our missile thread was interesting how we morphed HAs and javs into a single thread. Nice tactics overall. Nice to see it distilled down though.

[ah_dut]

My huscarles don't know what hold the line means http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif they just break other people's ones http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[katank]

true. this is why I said or punch through others http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

slice 'n dice, boys

[Doug-Thompson]

My guide says to replace Jobaggy with Slav Javs ASAP.

I should probably give my reasoning for that, which is debatable.

Oleander Ardens, this is your field of expertise. I'd like to know which you prefer and why. As I recall, you prefer jobaggy and to keep upgrading them and improving their valor.

Slav javs have a slightly better attack -- very slightly. I think this makes them slightly better router chasers. Their small shield makes up some for a weaker defense.

Jobaggy, however, have a decent charge. Notice I said decent, not good. This compensates a little for their very weak attack.

However, a Jobaggy with a couple of valor points and some upgrades is a decent melee unit. I can't say the same for the Slav jav.

[Oleander Ardens]

Quote[/b] ]Oleander Ardens, this is your field of expertise. I'd like to know which you prefer and why. As I recall, you prefer jobaggy and to keep upgrading them and improving their valor.


I'm honored http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

You gave a good view upon both of them - they don't differ much so one can prefer on over the other.

The Jobbagys is better at breaking units up after playing the Szekely - Jav game, while the Slav Javs chases them better, as you said ...

I usually use the Jobbagys more though as you can them recruit faster and all the way down to Constantinopel, where you are in dire need of Javs against this Jedi-Katanks.

So my southern Magyar forces have Jobbagys, while the northern stacks may have more Slav Javs...

Cheers

OA

[mfberg]

Which unit size you play on will also affect which unit you choose.

Huge unit size Slav Javs cost 250, 45 support, Jobbagy are 300/75, the difference is enough over 10 units to make the Slavs my replacement unit for my early Jobbagy.

On normal size it is 125/22 slavs to 150/37 jobbagy, much less difference, so it is not as important to me to make the slavs at this level.

Huge unit size also makes it cost efficient to build more HA to take out the rebel spears, and keep those Szekely for real emergencies (the inevitable polish/HRE invasion)

mfberg

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (mfberg @ June 22 2004,09:12)]On normal size it is 125/22 slavs to 150/37 jobbagy, much less difference, so it is not as important to me to make the slavs at this level.
Yeah, you can have 33 Slav Javs or 20 Jobaggy for the same maintenance cost. Left that little detail out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif I knew I had a good reason in there somewhere. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Quote[/b] ]Together with
- the strongest and most versital fast cavalry unit in the game, the Szekely
- hoards of cheap and effective slav warriors
- access to two cheap armorkiller from a distance: Slav Jav and Jobbagies
- a costeffectice antiarmor shockunit: Woodsman
- a surpreme heavy cavalry: AvarNoble
- a heavily armored HA: the Steppes
- a fast archer with small shield: BB

there is nothing you aren't prepared to take on

I've had armies of entirely Szekely, Avar Nobles, and Steppe Heavy Cavalry. They would trounce every single 'conventional' army thrown at them The Hungarians (when used properly) can wield incredible cav-based armies successfully against larger forces - and win Aahhhh... the good old Early days.

It doesn't much work in the High and Late Eras. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Spartakus]

As I've just started my first campaign as the Hungarians on early, I thought I should share what I've learned so far.

Must say I didn't know about Venice, no matter, I decided before I began this campaign on expansion eastwards. Serbia and Wallachia were my first pickings, neither caused me any trouble. Carpathia is a great province for mining, as is Serbia, which has gold. I upgraded my stables in Hungary for Szeleky, which is one of the few units who can give the Hungarians an upper hand at this early stage of the game.

Next two pickings were Greece and Bulgaria, both reasonable farmlands with some potential for trade. They also provide two platforms for further conquest in Constantinople, which of course was my goal. However, this means I had to duke it out with the Byzantines, who at this time are at their strongest, with arguably the best generals on the map. Particularly their Kataphraktoi, Varangian Guards and Trebizond Archers are a pain, as the Hungarians have no corresponding units who're able to match them.

I hear you guys talking about Szeleky taking down the Kataphraktoi. Well, that didn't work for me. The Szeleky managed to lure them a little off course, to kill a couple and buy some time, nothing more. Sooner or later they slammed into the main army. Instead, my strategy for dealing with the Kataphraktoi was to first engage them with an expendable unit of Spearmen; I was lucky enough to recruit three mercenary units of Italian Infantry, they did the job fine. When the Kataphraktoi was locked in battle with these, I charged them from the rear with some powerful cavalry, among them my general's unit of Royal Knights, boosting morale. The Varangian Guard can be dealt with in a somewhat alike manner, but use Slav Warriors instead of Spearmen.

The Szeleky I found far more useful in hunting down the irritating Trebizond Archers, as well as in dealing with Horse Archers. Not only can the Szeleky outshoot them, they can also outrun them and best them in melee.

Right now I'm the first Hungarian king in Constantinople, consolidating my realm before moving on to conquer the Middle-East. Not only will this gain me some nice provinces, it'll also solve the problem with crusaders passing through my realm. Too bad the Hungarians can't crusade themselves, would've been the ultimate weapon of conquest with their position right next to Orthodox and Moslem lands. :crowngrin:

[mfberg]

Try the Mounted Crossbows instead of or with Szekely. AP units work much better against the Armoured Kats. If you do the pinning with spears the Jagobby work wonders as the killer unit and Szek as the covering unit.

[tigger_on_vrb]

My guide says to replace Jobaggy with Slav Javs ASAP.

I should probably give my reasoning for that, which is debatable.

Oleander Ardens, this is your field of expertise. I'd like to know which you prefer and why. As I recall, you prefer jobaggy and to keep upgrading them and improving their valor.

Slav javs have a slightly better attack -- very slightly. I think this makes them slightly better router chasers. Their small shield makes up some for a weaker defense.

Jobaggy, however, have a decent charge. Notice I said decent, not good. This compensates a little for their very weak attack.

However, a Jobaggy with a couple of valor points and some upgrades is a decent melee unit. I can't say the same for the Slav jav.

I prefer Jogabby myself mainly beacuase of your last remark. For me the higher charge is important too. If my javalins are ever going to fight in melee its going to be a charge into the rear of a pinned unit - anything else just wastes them really. Also because you can build them in every province you own I stick to one type of javalin some when I have depleted units from several armies I can merge them together.

[tigger_on_vrb]

I also like to take several units of woodsmen when I go after the Byzs (with armour upgrade if possible). Its just so cheeky and satisfying to charge these (very cheap) guys into the back of a pinned katatank or VG and watch it get mangled. When you are fighting wars against the byzs just keep in mind how much your anti-armour units are costing you compared to their super units. If you take big losses or even lose a battle you can take comfort from the fact you can churn out a new army for a fraction of the cost that they can.

[Taedius]

Having only recently aquired VI, I find the Hungarians the most interesting faction right now.

There are many interesting points here; taking Venice would never occur to me, as I usually play a turtle-style game, certainly in the beginning. I focus on income; getting ships in the Black Sea, the Aegean, and later the Baltic sea. I tend to move east, northeast, securing Moldavia, Volhynia and Kiev, then Lithuania. I prioritize them above Serbia and Wallachia.

So far, the Poles have posed a greater threat than HRE and the Italians. The Byzantines seem to be busy with the Turks and the Egyptians. Also, the Sicilians have been somewhat of a wildcard, aggressive as they are; they tend to take Greece, from there they can go anywhere.

Tactically, I seem to use much the same methods as the above posters. Key words: Missiles and Mobility. Preparing the enemy lines with HA's or Szekelys, pin with available infantry, cavalrycharge to the rear. Simple and predictable, perhaps, but efficient nontheless.

[Ironluca]

Playing Hungarians is difficult but a wait and watch policy pays good dividend, though its a bit of -ve kind of play, you could win by others' mistakes and calamities, which invariably will happen :beam:

[matteus the inbred]

I have recently attempted the Hungarian 'Kiev gambit', which is racing east as fast as possible, massively fortifying Kiev and holding it with Halberdiers and Arbalests against the Mongols (+2 armour, cathedral for morale)...it's worked...sort of, we're now in about 1287.
The Mongols got repeatedly slaughtered in 8 consecutive bridge battles and are now holed up in Volga Bulgar, but this has left me with a long strip of land from Croatia to Pereyaslavyl, every province needing very large armies and fortresses as I have the massive Polish empire to the north and the equally massive Byzantine empire to the south. Quick-footed diplomacy and a lot of shipping has kept me from being picked on so far, but it's only a matter of time before someone decides they like the look of Hungary and Croatia...there's no one weaker than me for picking on. An interesting experiment, then, but probably not a viable long-term gamewinner. I always believe that, as Hungary, you have to wallop either Poland or the Byzantines fairly early, and I've had more luck walloping Poland.

Hungarian armies are still awesome early on though. Szekely, fast cav, knights, eastern horse...ride over everything that isn't already stuck full of arrows!

[seireikhaan]

Hungarians are my personal favorite faction at the moment, armies are unbelievable early, then you get the chivalric units in high. Szekely and Avar Nobles are awesome units early on, Avars are equivilant to Khwarzmian cavalry, except you're not in desert and the requirements for them are much less, even though you can only get them from moldavia in early, they are good enough to make up for it. Plus you get joggaby and slav javilinmen, which are very nice to have against the bizzies. Even if you can't beat Kataphratoi straight up, you can wear them down w/ szekely and then tear them up w/ javelins, so hungary, in a way, is fully equiped to take bizzy down. Usually, though, I like to leave them after I conquer Trebizond and Anatolia, so i can minimize interference from the mongols from that side when they arrive. Meanwhile, your cavalry trounces that of other catholics, and it isn't too difficult to snag a few provs from italy (like venice) and a few provs from HRE. I usually like to leave Poland alone until I've dealt w/ the mongols, that is unless they pick a fight w/ me. My eastern expansion stops w/ Kiev, and I don't go any farther north than that. As for the mongols, I just load up Kiev w/ tons of halberdiers and arbalesters and any particularly outstanding units of chivalric sargeants, and hold the bridge for dear life.

[Taedius]

Remember, though, that Volhynia is one of only three provinces where you can train Szekelys, the others being Hungary and Moldavia.

[seireikhaan]

Taedius, this is true, but I have found that I only need to provs to train szekely, I would rather not overexpand my empire instead of having an extra szekely traing ground. Given that they are horse archers, I don't usually have more than six or seven in any given army, and with hungary you still have other units to support them, like avars and maa's and seargeants.

[Lord Cazaric]

Haven't you people heard of paragraphs?

[Xehh II]

Stop being mean to people.

[Caerfanan]

Haven't you people heard of paragraphs?
Well, I think they wanted to make only one paragraph! :laugh4:

Seriously, it's quite bearable, don't you think?

[Martok]

Easy, guys. We're here to talk about Hungarian strategies, not criticize paragraphs (or lack thereof). :focus:

[seireikhaan]

Oh, owwwww, my pride, he insulted my paragraph! ~:mecry: Really, if Lord Cazaric dislikes my (lack of) paragraphs, he's free to do it. I don't really care. It takes a lot more than someone disliking my one paragraph to hurt my (lack of) feelings. Sorry Martok, I know that was off topic, just felt like saying that and officially ending it(hopefully).

[Lord Cazaric]

Easy, easy! greaterkhaan, it was a joke!

[seireikhaan]

Lord Cazaric, same to you. I suppose I should stop trying to use humor, perhaps its a little too dry for online use. As I said, I didn't really care about the comment. Anyway, no hard feelings, right?

[Seabourch]

With Hungary, I recommend avoiding the Byzantines during the Early period since they have better quality units. If you want, attack them until you hit Constantinople then stop. Let be swallowed by the Muslim factions they always piss off. Take the POlish areas and when you reach Baltic, make Pomerania and Prussia your trade provinces.