View Full Version : Novgorod / Russia
early is easy for the novgorod.
the military is very strong with boyars and druzhina aka foot knights owning the field.
the problem is how to afford it.
the economy is the challenging part.
solution is to not go for the steppes except for Smolensk and then moving into Lithuania, Livonia, Volhynia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, and Const.
It's quite doable to make this beeline for Const.
these lands are richer than most and Volhynia will shut down Polish expansion while Moldavia provides avar nobles and Bulgaria eventually produces brigands.
the steppes are rather poor and little good farm land is there.
trade takes too long to set up.
rather, just spam vikings from forts and rush the Byz.
the gain of Const. yields a nice farming and ship building as well as fast access to boyars, druzhina, or well armored rus spears.
after this, share the rest of Byzantium with the Turks, consolidate the steppes and subjugate the Polish who no doubt is entertaining ideas about your lands now.
RedKnight
07-05-2004, 19:30
Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:51)]high
The following applies to a High Russian game, but some aspects will apply to other eras.
The challenge for Russia in a High game is that the Golden Horde will show up on their doorstep on 1231 (end of 1230). In my Expert game, they showed up in Volga, Khazar, and Georgia. All your early play must be geared in anticipation of them arriving - you only have 25 years
The attempt is made more challenging as per Katank's comments - Russia does not have much income at first. So, your challenge is to defeat a super force on the cheap.
Yet another challenge - or at least oddity, if you're used to playing Catholics - is that they do not have Sargeants So your usual spear-wall tactics with Chiv Sargeants (if you use them) don't work here. On the plus side, they have GREAT archer cavalry - Boyars and Steppe Heavy Cavalry (SHC). Also, they get the armored spearman. This is with MTW/VI 2.01 - I don't think vanilla MTW has armored spearmen? (You will be able to make SHCs in all the eastern Russia provinces that let you make Steppe Cav at the Horse Farm - once you have an Armorer and a Horse Guild.)
You start with only four provinces - Novgorod and Moscow which are highly built up, then Kiev and some other ditzy province that aren't built up. Do your best to keep quality (silver armor) troops coming out of Nov and Moscow - you're gonna need them
First, on a more strategic note, there will be life after the Horde (fingers crossed). I always go for sea trade, since it's such great cash. If you're with me, do everything you can to take coastal provinces. Note that you can make both a Shipwright (4 years; barques) and a Dockyard (6 years; Caravels) with just a Keep. Your mid-game navies should have both - barques help catch small fast enemies, while caravels provide firepower and fast sea movement. So when I first get an unimproved coast province, I make a Shipwright and maybe a Dockyard a.s.a.p., then churn out ships for decades, until the province improves enough to make good land units.
Along these lines, try to get Sweden and Norway a.s.a.p. Both are coastal and can churn out ships while improving, and Sweden has great trade AND iron. If you get lucky, like I did in my current game, the Danes got really stupid and shipped off most of their forces to Scotland - meanwhile Denmark went rebel and was easy pickings for me. Saxony then also went rebel with a handful of units and I was able to extend this one border land area to be holding four provinces, in the first 20 turns without getting into a war with anybody. (Don't get overextended in terms of how many border provinces you hold... most anyone IS liable to attack you if you have weak borders.)
Katank advocates a strong drive for Constantinople, which is fine in general - but for a High game, I would sit tight until the Horde is dealt with. Namely, make borders at the excellent Kiev/Lithuania line and don't go farther west, since with K+L you only need to hold two (good trade) border provinces to secure your entire western front.
Otherwise conquer everything in Russia, from Finland on down to Khazar. Maybe Georgia if you want - but since the Horde may show there too, and otherwise you might invite a battle with factions to your south already, I wouldn't (yet).
With your initial handful of strong units, you can take all of Russia - although you should plan your movements, since there's not a lot of time. The wooden forts mean that just your handfuls of heavy cav can finish them off. A couple of things to watch for:
First keep in mind that rebels might retreat to other provinces if you overwhelm them. If you have the skills, try to use an attack stack that is quite relatively small, so they won't retreat multiple times til they make a big force. Still, with your mighty handful of Boyars etc., it's not too hard to just steamroll the rabble of early High Russia without regard for this.
Secondly, a big word about RIVERS. These are very important in early High Russia - when first sweeping up the rabble, then when dealing with the Horde.
Rivers in Russia are as follows (all are two-way): Kiev/Khazar, Khazar/Chernigov, Khazar/Ryazan, Volga/Moscow. And did I forget to mention Khazar? Khazar is also where the majority of the Horde appears, in my experience.
When cleaning up the rabble, you can use rivers for attacks - depending on your bows as you can.
In my limited experience (I haven't read the collective wisdom that must be around here), the Horde will definitely show up in Khazar, and may also show up in Volga, Georgia, and/or Armenia. (All of which seems consistent with them coming out of the east.) I've never seen them show up in more than three provinces; in my current Expert game, they showed in Khazar, Georgia, and Volga. In a game where I played the English (an Early game) a long time ago, they showed up only in Khazar. That game was not on Expert - probably a medium game. So difficulty might (MIGHT) have a say in it.
My battle plan was to make the Horde attack me across bridges. So, although I had taken all of Russia (boundaries: Lithuania, Kiev, and Khazar), my plan was to hold Kiev, Chernigov, Ryazan, and Moscow, writing off everything else (Khazar, Volga, Pereyaslavl, Crimea). In my first 10 turns I had made Boyars and Steppe Heavy Cavalary (SHC) in Nov and Moscow (for cleaning up the Russian rabble), but then I switched over purely to halberdiers. Halberdiers are hell on cavalry, especially silver-plated halbs led by a high-star general. I had also made a lot of archers (which are quick to turn out from all those poor Russian provinces, and relatively cheap to maintain). So I positioned approx. 5 halbs in each of the 4 provinces, with approx. 8 archers and a handful of the Boyars and/or SHCs into each. (Try to keep similar units together, so that you can more easily make whole units again once the battle is done.) I put my best generals in Moscow and Kiev - the two places I wanted to fall, the least.
And, 1231 comes (drum roll). Sure enough there's a huge stack in Khazar, and stacks about half that size in Volga and Georgia (but Georgia is past worrying about ATM). My great fear was that they would go sideways instead of across bridges - e.g. attack Ryazan from Volga. But - and it makes perfect sense - their only attack on their first turn, was into the mightily-built Moscow, from Volga. Across a bridge.
The halbs met them on the bridge and annihilated all comers - but you have to play it right, having only 5 or 6 halbs, to take on that mighty force (approx. 4k enemies). I had excellent generals - 8*s in both Moscow and Kiev - which helped tons. My initial Russian king had a +2 Defense virtue (I guess this is standard).
Be very careful of two things: Don't let your halbs get unnecessarily arrowed, and don't let them get too exhausted. Once they're totally fatigued, they stop being Death Incarnate to horses. And it's a real bummer how 60 halbs can annihilate 400 Mongol Heavy Cav (MHCs), losing only 30 guys - but be easily peppered to tatters over time, by a few light archer units. So, hold your forces out of arrow reach until the GH starts rushing your bridge, then run up to meet them at the base of your side of the bridge with one halb unit, and let the halbs do their thing. Your archers had also been out of enemy arrow reach but now that the party's started, move them up to shoot onto all the juicy enemies on the bridge.
By the time your halbs have hacked and sliced their way to the far side of the bridge, all the enemy rushers will probably be running away, and your halbs are faced with the decision to try to go after archers which are only a few steps farther (peppering them), or get their butts back across the bridge. Unless an especially tasty full stack of Mongol Warriors is RIGHT there, resist the temptation They're peppered where they stand and will very soon be totally exhausted, having fought their way across the bridge. Now is the time to bring them back to your side and let them rest... while they can still run away from the arrows So, withdraw and let them rest up... and get another, refreshed halb unit ready to stop the next bridge rush. (Move him into position, just out of arrow reach.)
In the first wave, it's very important to try to get the enemy general, as this will make all the rest easier. You can try to arrow him but most of the time he will be on the bridge and your halbs will take him down, just like everybody else. As a matter of fact, if I had this to do again, I'd have to say that arrows are far less important in a bridge defense - I might have easily tried just having 8 or 10 halbs, and a few Russia heavy cavs (to mop up the last wave, or take swipes of opportunity every now and then).
You should have tons of captured guys, and get quite a few k worth of rebates for them. This helps a lot with the desparate money situation. Since I'm quite happy to have them attack me across bridges, I didn't mind that, and didn't butcher them.
Eventually your generals will get incredible Defender virtues, due to your low ratios (Field Defense Specialist, Last Stand, etc.).
Although I had written off Pereyaslavl and Crimea (with only a token unit in each), as a matter of fact the GH didn't bother with them. He only did one big attack per turn. Here's how it went: First turn he attacks Moscow, second turn Kiev, third turn Moscow again - and I got his leader that time, and they turned rebel. (In contrast, the rebels had no problem taking Pereyaslavl and Crimea.) I then attacked Khazar across a bridge... there were lots of routes to choose from Note: only the border that the ATTACK LEADER crosses, determines which border is used... all the other troops can come from wherever.
But then I screwed up... he still had big stacks of rebels in Georgia and Volga, so I took my big stack in Khazar and immediately attacked Volga (to get them out of my hair). As we all know, rebels will usually only attack when they have overwhelming odds. Well, I didn't have all my headlights on and assumed they wouldn't attack... but with huge stacks in Georgia and Volga, and me besieging a few rebels in the Khazar fort (and using my lean mean halberdier approach), he sure thought he had overwhelming odds... right when I moved most everything onto Volga. So he took back Khazar, my leaders were out of position to attack over a bridge, and around and around we went.
(I used to be scared of attacking across bridges, but if you do it right - a.k.a. abuse the AI cheaply - they can be easier than open-field attacks. See below.)
Another mistake I made was to try leaving a halbderdier or two in the forts in Volga and Khazar. My thinking was that they could probably take a pretty penny worth of the Horde down with them. Wrong. In a surprise to me - I usually keep real strong borders, so I rarely have to do castle defenses - I found that when faced with a wooden fort, the AI says to hell with the front door, I'll make my own. So they came straight for me in the fort keep, knocking down a wall.
Not only that but I found out it's a BAD IDEA to have your troops right behind a wood wall, waiting for them (LOL)... the damn thing fell on the halbs who were snuggled close waiting... killing them down to just 10 guys left It was a hard letter to write to their families. Death by lethal stupidity. At least I could give each of them a Darwin Award.
You might or might not want to make any buildings in the provinces you choose to write off - your money is very tight, they may be destroyed when being taken and re-taken, and the Horde might e.g. build archers or horses if you made those buildings. Plus forts can be used against you. So keep the deadline of 1231 high in your mind when deciding whether the few turns you'll hold it, will be worth making anything. Also of course you can destroy buildings (and get a little cash back).
If I had to do it all again, I would have made xbows where I could and otherwise churn out halberdiers - or maybe not make any kind of archer at all. In the rebel's swan song, I used the cheap trick of attacking across a bridge (moving one halberdier across a bridge), which usually (but not always) causes the enemy to rush them in order to stop them. In which case, your halbs can proceed to slice and dice their cav as usual. (At this point, the GH did not have many MHCs left, but did still have tons and tons of MHAs and MWs.) This works pretty well, but I wish I had had more cavalry to clean up his MHAs and MWs after my halbs killed anybody who would try to stop them crossing the bridge. In other words, I'd like to try going against the GH and subsequent rebels, with just halberdiers and a few cavalry (Boyars and SHCs), without any arrows (archers or xbows) at all.
In case it's not clear: For the first 10 years I made SHCs in Moscow and Boyars in Nov, then switched both to silver halberdiers. Elsewhere I was making archers and, where possible, xbows. But if I had it to do over, I would probably try making fewer cav in Nov and Moscow (and maybe emphasize SHCs more, since they're cheaper) and switch to halbs earlier - and hit them mainly with halbs, plus some cav. I might try it without any arrows, just to see. However, with everything (but everything) focussed on what Nov and Moscow can make, and that to be used against the Horde, I'm not sure I wouldn't be attacked on other borders... hmm.
Money management is tough in these first years. Note that SHCs cost 450 but are only 45 to maintain, whereas Boyars are 550/105. For comparison, Horse Archers are 188/40 and Mounted Xbows are 300/50. So SHCs have very low maintenance, but are still a very nice moderately heavy cav PLUS arrows. I wouldn't send them 1-on-1 head to head vs. MHCs per se (though I would arrow MHCs), but they can easily deal with the other two main Mongol units (MHAs and MWs).
Also, if I got a sucky heir, I would use his men to top off other depleted Boyars, then suicide him somewhere.
Also for arrow units notice that vanilla archers actually have the highest maintenance - .5/man, whereas xbows and arbs (pav or not) are .375/man. Halberdiers are 300/45 (60 men) and Armored Spearmen are 250/50 (100 men). I have not (yet) tried using Armored Spears - I just knew halbs were tough on horses, so I went with what I knew. Perhaps others can address Armored Spears. Also I have not (yet) tried the Dhruzina, a special(?) VI Russian unit that needs Horse Breeder and Swordsmith... neither this or Armored Spears show up in the (vanilla MTW?) spreadsheet of unit stats that I have, so I don't know how they'd work out.
Now that the Horde is taken care of, I will be moving through the mideast. By a stroke of luck, as soon as I'd beaten down the final GH rebels, Constantinople went rebel, so I was able to take it without upsetting anybody. That's the good news. The bad news is that, past its previous conquering and my taking it, it remains a citadel but has almost no high-level buildings in it (sigh).
That's where I am now, year 1267... I can't address the remainder of the game. But if I can take the Horde on the cheap in the first 30 years and live, obviously I'm the winner, LOL. About a dozen turns ago I finally united my trade fleets, circling the globe - and started making tons of money. It's all downhill from here.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
I love halbs but I love arbs more.
I like to go beyond and especially take Bulgaria due to ability to produce brigands but more importantly, pav arbs or valor bonused arbs.
I like to use 6 units of arbs in frontlines shooting.
2 pavs near to the bridge head to duel enemies and also give little more time in case they break through.
4 other are regular arbs.
arbs shooting onto the bridge kills the khan far faster than halbs.
I love to see that big square banner float onto the bridge and I target it with all six arbs.
two volleys max would bring the delicious enemy king killed in combat message
druzhina are awesome as they dismount into 60 men FFK. positioning an FFK at the second bridge with a halb is a good idea as pure halbs might not hold long enough and get scared so far away from general.
RedKnight
07-05-2004, 20:17
Hiya Kat Russia is really unique, isn't it?
You may recall approx. a month ago I started a thread saying does anybody use arbalesters?. You and others replied that indeed you did. As a result of that, I realized that I had written them off mentally when I first started playing MTW, because I didn't take into account their low angle of fire... at that point I often tried to get on top of nice hills, but didn't realize that that meant my men were often blocking my arbs. Anyway, as a result of that thread, I've come to love arbs, and make them when I can. I found out that in fact they have a couple of unforeseen (to me) big bonusses... 1) Since they last far longer, you don't have to worry nearly as much about swapping in new archers (if you play archer heavy, like I do)... this is esp. important on the attack, where they may have to cross the entire map. 2) Because they last so much longer, you also need far fewer units (vs. archers, if you're archer heavy like me), which in turn means you're much more likely to see Defender and Attacker virtues. Indeed, I rarely got those, before I tried using arbs a lot. (I love death from afar) Now, I'm finding (Yet Another) new wrinkle in the game, where I challenge myself to use the smallest, highly tailored force possible to take down enemies, and get those virtues a.s.a.p.
So... thanks for that thread about arbs
But still, for a High Russian game, the challenge is very little time, and only two good provinces, before the Horde comes. None of their start provinces can make arbs (although Nov and Moscow could, in six years - but then, who's gonna make heavy cav or halberdiers?). You could try to take other places like Bulgaria - but money and troops are very short, and the clock is ticking down to 1231 - and now you have more borders to defend. (Keeping others from attacking you might be the difference between a straightforward Horde fight, and a real mess). I'm not saying it's impossible... in fact, it sounds like a challenge Another variation to trying... cav+halbs+arbs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif Have you played a High game per se? Did you do it that way?
The_Emperor
07-06-2004, 01:41
A Late period Russia game is almost as challenging as High period, if not more so.
For starters, you only have Moscow and Novgorod as provinces, and the Golden Horde have overrun vast areas of Europe.
Almost immediately the horde will probably attack you (they did to me on my very first turn)
Technologically speaking Russia is in bad shape in the late period. Boyars are old fashioned compared to the modern cavalry such as Chivs, Spanish Lancers and Gothic Knights. Also bear in mind that Russia has no men At arms units.
Mercenaries can help to offset this problem of lack of swords, but it will still be an uphill struggle. The lands around Russia are still dirt poor and the Horde controls them all. You are going to have to fight your way through them to Kiev Bulgaria and Constantinople.
Also consider taking Livonia from the Danes, but be careful not to engage yourself in too many wars at once. A naval crossing into Sweden is also a good tactic for any russian campaign if you can build the ships before your bankrupt... Hopefully this will secure the trade revenue you need to keep your armies up.
The Late period is hard, time is against you, and with the lack of decent swords it is going to be tough going.
The Russians benefit from Arbs, Gunpowder and cannon as a means to break morale and inflict casualties before they fight in melee, their armies do not have the backbone to fight toe to toe with CMAA, and the other high quality Knights of this period, unless they have been sufficiently weakened.
I remember my first High Russian game.
I united the steppes and especialy managed to take both Livonia and Lithuania intact for regular arb facilities or at least castle with a few years to arbs.
I took Bulgaria intact for pav arbs with a dash of brigands.
I then warred on the Byz and sacked Const, Trebizond, Greece, and Georgia (which I later pulled out of).
I also blazed a path to Poland and was well into Franconia about 3 years before Horde arrival.
I managed to pitch the HRE into civil war and pulled back to Poland to remain defensive there and defended Kiev against the Horde.
they got their khan captured the first time and killed the second.
even when he was dead, the rebels bashed themselves against my forces.
I think they appeared in Armenia also and I didn't realize it so they reappeared and deja vu.
By the end, I had a full unit of v14 halbs and loads of v5-6 arbs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
mystic brew
07-16-2004, 19:13
just played a novgorod game in early.
And here's what i did in the first few turns...
first year, invade finland with one unit of vikings.
invade muscovy with boyar and spears, pile everyone else into smolensk.
In novgorod, produce vikings and build towards russian spears.
once i secured those provinces, the armys united and turned south. I didn't bother leaving any troops to defend chernigov on the way down, and the Kiev forces collapsed in short order. Moldavia and crimea fell with no fight.
by this stage i had all my production provinces secured.
Kiev, for steeps light and heavy, and eventualy Boyar cavalry.
Novgorod for heavy infantry, Druzhina, and russian spears (these boys are tough)
Finland and the Crimea for the fleet
Muscovy for agents and arhers (though i don't really need them.
Moldavia for Avar nobles
The next stage was setting the boundaries of the empire. the line i set for myself was khazar, kiev, lithuania, before settling in for the long process of economic expansion and military upgrading.
the eastern steepes came first. I bribed the KRC (just cos i like 'em.), and the steepe lights were no match for the russian spears. The rest were no real problem, leaving lithuania and livonia, livonia last because it is always so rebellious.
All of this was done with relatively few army's, concentrating on the expensive building gameI left very small garrisons in the south. the rebels came and went, a couple of hitches, but nothing serious.
as soon as the fleet began to be produced, all the coastal provinces switch to port and merchant building, and sweden fell. Norway came soon afterwards.
Diplomatically decided to really play the orthodox hand heavily, and married two Byzantine princesses, and helped the purple boys out of a couple of sieges, and they helped me out when Poland decided to take me on. two years later the Poles ceased to exist. So I grabbed Prussia and Volychnia, left the byzantine to take poland itself as a buffer against the HRE.
And sieged Malta after a rebellion, as a future naval base.
And that's where you find me now.
Muscovy has spies and assassins available, the rest of the steepes are pacified and economically productive - that Livonia, lithuania, Kiev, Khazar Novgorod trade zone is bringing in serious money now
And that's pretty much where i am right now. Shippinglanes coming on slow and sure, borders secure and with buffer zones, and the Byzantines between me and the turks and HRE.
Sitting pretty.
I tend to go homicidal on my coreligionists and don't take the game slowly.
I find that spamming Viks and grabbing Const. would enable great trade and also earlier boyars and other troops and that I would no longer be broke.
this cripples the Byz and does leave me with more factions to fight.
perhaps I should turtle using your strat, mystic brew, might make for a very different game.
Quote[/b] (katank @ July 16 2004,14:19)]I tend to go homicidal on my coreligionists and don't take the game slowly.
I find that spamming Viks and grabbing Const. would enable great trade and also earlier boyars and other troops and that I would no longer be broke.
this cripples the Byz and does leave me with more factions to fight.
perhaps I should turtle using your strat, mystic brew, might make for a very different game.
ahhhh, a man after me own heart, the ever lethal and dirt cheap viking spam move. however, the danish huscarles are one step better but reqs are a touch steep for spamming
yeah, in my beeline for Const. strat, I can produce 5-6 viks a turn.
getting to Scandanavia and producing will be too slow for rushing and 3 max a turn isn't good enough for semi trash flood.
besides, for the price of 1 huscarle, you can get maybe 2.5 units of viks
Katank, how do you blitz through so many territories without having rebellions? I find I must have several units to keep the peace in the territory taken. Then it takes time to produce those so you can move on to take the next territory. It seems as if you finish your games very fast https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif
Mouzafphaerre
07-20-2004, 02:43
-
Late/Normal
Eat up the Horde Your Boyars with some Halberd backup will kick ass.
Buy the rebels with worthy generals around, in Lietuva etc. Get a foothold early on Scandinavia and build up your trade/navy as usual...
Tackle the Byz early after defeating the Horde and keep an eye on the nasty Turks.
So far so good... I haven't completed a Russian campaign yet.
Hth
_
@mythoss, leave provinces that wouldn't be happy with 1 slav warrior empty and let them rebel.
the rebellions will be small and soon it will stop.
go with watch tower, border fort, fort, town watch to get happiness up.
a few rebellions can actually help out your treasury due to money from confiscated lands.
don't worry about them, they are troops training opportunities.
mystic brew
07-21-2004, 11:45
Quote[/b] (katank @ July 16 2004,14:19)]I tend to go homicidal on my coreligionists and don't take the game slowly.
I find that spamming Viks and grabbing Const. would enable great trade and also earlier boyars and other troops and that I would no longer be broke.
this cripples the Byz and does leave me with more factions to fight.
perhaps I should turtle using your strat, mystic brew, might make for a very different game.
Katank,
I have slowed down the game a lot since i rushed all the time.
I tend to roleplay these days, and since my ruler of the time was devout, not overly militaristic, and married to a byzantine princess, I decided that was the way forward.
I'm playing an extra rule, that in peacetime if I can't accomodate troops in the castles of that province they get disbanded, so my standing armies are small. so building fortifications on my border is a high priority. And try to make the garrison army follow the shape of the governor. I also put taxes on very low asap
Its making for a very interesting game, actually. Since the only province with the border to a hostile power is Lithuania, when a friend is invaded I have time to muster the amrys and march to their defence. My prince's influence is through the roof, and I have to keep turning down marriage proposeals (i'm on expert and this has never happened to me before).
decided muscovy was going to rival Constantinople for learning, so I'm going for culture there, hopefully a university.
Also playing as if i don't know the horde is coming Could be fun in 1231
how large is your empire? did you unite the steppes? is your trade network around the world?
mystic brew
07-21-2004, 16:07
My ships were all around the world, but the sicilians attacked the big C, so I lifted the siege, and my longboats are fighting the sicilan navy all over.
the steepes are united. Not that built up troops-wise, but lots of farmland and trade. Have the scandanavias, sweden and norway have teched up to Huscarles and the front is from lithuania, Kiev, Moldavia and Khazar.
So the empire isn't huge, but the cash is rolling in and the provinces are all in constant building.
The Turks(enemy) have Khazar, the Danes(allies) have Prussia and Denmark, the Byzantines(allies) are on all the rest of my borders. France has just declared a crusade against me, but i don't know how strong it is. and really any serious threat has to come through the Byzantines first.
shouldn't you pound the Turks out of Khazar?
mystic brew
07-21-2004, 17:47
huh?
Ooops, my mistake. You are of course right.
Turks have Georgia. *I* have Khazar. I raided Georgia, Rum and Armenia and burned 'em down... no real threat there.
Boris of Bohemia
08-27-2004, 23:38
Hello
I lmao when I read about that v14 halberd.
Anyway, I felt like writing so here is a conservative and low-risk high era Russian guide appropriate for relative novices, after several campaigns played in MTW on normal:
1. Opening moves & expansion
Troop builds for expansion: Muscovy makes steppe cavalry, Novgorod makes militia sargeants & archers, Kiev makes peasants for pacification. I wait for monasteries before making the 300 fl halberdiers. Don't build Boyars until the Mongols are done - you don't need them for bridge battles and you'll run out of cash. You'll need arbs and halberds, lots of them. Forget about ships too, not enough time.
I recommend the following expansion goals in this order:
1. Chernigov, which links Kiev. Beware of leaving Novgorod undergarrisoned as the Lithuanians like to attack it.
2. Moldavia, Bulgaria. Should be done under 10 turns esp if Bulgaria is empty. Often, rebels will attack Constantinople leaving Bulgaria open for you. Get there quick because others are coming. Having the third citadel intact is a huge boost in the longer run, far more important than cleaning up the steppes.
3. Lithuania, Smolensk, Finland, Ryazan in any order that seems convenient. I leave Livonia alone, but could be a good rebel farm for cash. Lithuania might be worth a bribe esp if units have acumen.
4. Build up for Mongols. Don't take Volga or Khazar because there is a chance you won't have to fight the Mongols at all. I've seen it happen: they landed in Khazar and Armenia, and Volga "joined the revolt". To my surprise the Khan decided he didn't care about Khazar and moved everything south, giving it back to the rebels. Generally, they land in Khazar plus 0-2 of the following: Volga, Georgia, Armenia. Strength can range from colossal to laughable. Once they were so pathetic I disposed of them in about 5 turns. Other times it goes on and on. Reloading to a previous turn does change their composition, if you want to.
5. Khazar; i.e. deal with the horde. The standard defensive line is Muscovy/Ryazan/Chernigov/Pereslavl/Kiev, which forces mostly bridge battles. If you didn't have enough cash for 3+ halberds and 3+ arbs in each of those provinces, it's because you built boyars too early. Farm some rebels in Livonia or sack Constantinople.
6. After the mongols, Constantinople and Livonia if not already done. Beware that killing the Khan + all heirs does *not* always make big rebel horde stacks less agressive! And, if the Polski provoked rebels in Volhynia, they can now join and you get a big battle for Kiev without benefit of a bridge (yes, it happened)!
7. Carpathia & Hungaria, iron provinces. Hungary starts with castle and is thus far quicker to build up for Boyars than Sweden. The Hunski usually build up Carpathia too, much better than Sweden. And it takes you toward Venice.
Actually 6 & 7 might be done before the Mongol invasion but the easy way is to wait because you'll feel strung out because it lengthens the border so much.
Whether or not the game stays interesting after this depends if a rival power emerges in western europe and/or Islamistan. Nobody else starts with two citadels, and get a third early and throw in a fortress.
A basic army format of 4-6 halberds, 2-3 arbs, 2-3 Bulgars, 2-3 boyars, and 2+ steppe cav seems undefeatable by the ai, at least in high. I keep the arbs close in front of the halberds, and the Bulgars and horses directly behind: if they refuse to engage the halberds, they get shot up by arbs and lose. If they charge the arbs, they engage the halberds and lose when the horses circle around. I gave up on flank garrison because it never deters and a deeper narrower formation of smaller 60-man units is quite nimble to shift orientation during the pre-melee hokey-pokey dance. Moreover, horses on your flanks actually seems to tempt the ai foot units to move laterally towards them.
2. Some factoids about units
Russki has access to both horse archers and mounted crossbows, depending on the province.
A boyar with one valor is equal in melee to a chiv knight, except for charge bonus. Novo & Musko are not far from master bower & breeder. I used to mostly autocalc but boyars brought the fun back.
Steppe cavalry with one valor is superior to mounted sargeant, and faster and cheaper. Never obsolete.
Bulgars with one valor are equal in meelee to fmaa, less one defence point. Russki cannot build swords, another reason to grab Bulgaristan. Though actually both orthodox factions can build BB's anywhere with a master bowyer.
Lithuanian cavalry, what can I say, a unit begging to be modded.
notes, mtd. x-bows are horse breeder while HAs are horse farm.
arbs are the battle winners in High with protection such as arbs.
I like to take Const. also in the drive south. Bulgaria gives citadel with master bow but Const. gives fortress, ship building, tons of titles to buff up generals etc.
brigands are good but add some morale.
russians do have swords. build druzhina and dismount em for FFK which are among the best swords around.
boyars are OP and steppe heavies can melee but unfortunately are only normal speed so not as great for hit and run HA tactics.
steppe cav are low cost, high speed pursuit cav and quite good. lith cav leaves a little to be desired. pump arbs and maybe make use of valor bonused woodsmen there which are also cost discounted for russians.
an AP shock unit for 62 florins is dirt cheap and pretty effective if you pump up the morale.
do woodsmen swarm can work wonders.
When I play the Russians in High, I take Lithuania, Livonia first to build up my economy via baltic shipping. I eventually take all the steppe provinces. I build minimally in these, and put most of my efforts into Livonia, Novgorod, Muscovy, Kiev and Lithuania. I use rebellious Livonia to train generals in defense/valor/stars.
I build a simple army of Armored Spearmen, Crossbows and archers. I have been able to hold onslaughts from GH across bridges with this combination quite well. These battles seem to go on forever. I place the A/S at the foot of the bridge and put them on hold formation, hold position. I then place archers and C/B flanking the river on both sides of bridge in ranks. C/B in front and Archers on higher ground behind. Then it is a matter of slaughtering all those MHC and MW. I rotate out the A/S when the units drop to 75 men. This can take quite awhile as they seem to weather the arrow storm quit well. Before I discovered the A/S, I had pretty good luck with militia sergeants (with Russia's economy the cheaper the army that can do the job the bettter), but the M/S don't last as long.
By the time the GH appear, I can manage to have stacks of 1500-2000 men in Muscovy and Kiev. Like you I let the steppes go, if the GH wants them. I also have similar stack in Smolensk to cover Nov and Lithuania. My armies are roughly made up of thirds, A/S, C/B and Archers. I don't use any Cav, except for some princes and some generals. These are not used tactically. I cover both bridges initially and shift forces to the bridge that is bearing the main assult. I leave the other bridge covered with an A/S and two archers. When the ranged units deplete their arrows I rotate them out of the battlefield. The A/S are pulled back to rest and put back in as neccessary. I usually put them near the quiet bridge. Sometimes the GH will switch attacks to the other quiet bridge, but usually once they decide which one to attack, they stick with it. Oh, when I place the A/S or the M/S I place them right at the foot of the bridge on a front just wider than the bridge itself. so they look almost like a column. I place their relief behind them and the ranged troops are in ranks to either side. The resulting slaughter of the GH is immense, but I get very few prisoners, after the GH is reduced to just depleted MHA, they withdraw. Though good for holding river crossings I wouldn't use this army in open country against the GH. Fortunately the GH usually attacks across the bridges rather than go through Pereyaslavl to attack Kiev overland.
going for bulgaria fast would give facility for pav arbs or valor bonused arbs.
arbs are so much better than x-bows at killing.
halbs also work as better plugs than armored spears although armored spears are good too.
charmingindividual
10-30-2004, 21:18
Several people have mentioned playing as Novgorod in Early, how is this possible? I have VI and every other faction (apart from the papacy) is playable, but not Novgorod, is this a bug? Or do I need a mod, if so where can I get it from.
Thanks
HopAlongBunny
10-31-2004, 09:27
To make PoN playable:
Open Total War folder; open campmap; open startpos
Within startpos dbl click "Early"
Scroll down to SetActiveFaction:: FN_NOVGOROD
change the bit after from FT_MINOR to FT_MAJOR
The People of Novgorod should now be playable; the game must be "Domination" GA will not work; you could play a GA game but anytime you click on PoN the game will crash.
HopAlongBunny
10-31-2004, 09:37
In additon; if you want Offices to work:
Scroll down to AddOffice:: FN_RUSSIAN; select and Copy to bottom of AddOffice section. Change FN_RUSSIAN to FN_NOVGOROD.
Now you have Offices as well ~:)
Before doing anything! back up all files to be modded.
charmingindividual
10-31-2004, 13:03
Thanks!
Lanemerkel1
11-17-2004, 16:41
the russians are VERY HARD on HIGH cuz your empire has to use every lick of that 25 years you have or your done for the Golden Horde ll beat u without a fight
Aurelian
11-18-2004, 00:06
Several people have mentioned playing as Novgorod in Early, how is this possible? I have VI and every other faction (apart from the papacy) is playable, but not Novgorod, is this a bug? Or do I need a mod, if so where can I get it from.
Thanks
Get the Total War XL Mod. You can find a link to it in the Engineer's Guild part of these forums.
The XL Mod includes 9 extra provinces and a full roster of playable factions. I'm playing an Early campaign as Kievan Russia... and it rocks.
Just in Eastern Europe, you can play as Novgorod, Kiev, Lithuania, the Cumans, the Volga Bulgars, Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. There is a new 'Levidia' province north of the Crimea, a new Estonia province on the Baltic, and a division of Poland into Lesser and Greater Poland provinces.
It is a vast improvement on the original game. Highly recommended.
Lanemerkel1
11-18-2004, 17:11
WOW this is a GREAT guide for russia on high http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/medieval_total_war_russian.txt
Lanemerkel1
11-21-2004, 04:54
Did anyone notice this? in the game NOVOGROD is WEST of MUSCOVY right?
well in real life the city of NOVOGROD is EAST of MOSCOW is this a bug or are the people who made the map dumb gepgraphically?
russ have 2 novgorod citys
novgorod and new -down novgord(niznij novgorod)
in game all ok ~:cheers:
Peter Kirby
01-28-2005, 01:44
In my game as the Russians in the high period, I spent my first twenty-five years capturing everything east of Kiev and Lithuania from the barbarians. I was ill-prepared for the Golden Horde when it came. I did a lot of maneuvering of armies to try to deal with it piece by piece; this went on for half a dozen turns. Finally, while the Horde was sieging a Fort in a steppe province, there was a revolt against them in which I gained about 2500 men, many of them Gothic Foot Soldiers and similar class fighters. They had no maintenance cost for some time.
I don't think that what I did is a great strategy. I was wondering if anyone had experienced the same with the Golden Horde. From that event I was able to mop up their armies.
best,
Peter Kirby
sandyindiain
09-19-2005, 11:22
hi, to all the members who have already contributed here. This is my first contribution to the guild.
After playing a bit of short games using different factions and knowing about the full game, I finally started to play a Russian Campaign on GA mode at High on normal difficulty level and so far doing quite well I think. I am using vanilla MTW, without VI. It is 1240 a.d. (35 yrs gone) and here is how it looks till now:-
(I took some advice from ur earlier posts specially one from Katank and some others too, thanks to u all. I used no cheat too, not even the map cheat)
The whole Steppe Land is under my control except Khazar where the Golden Horde is there with around 2000-2500 people. Territories under me right now are:- 1) Novogrod, Muscovy, Kiev, Pereyaslavl (From the start)
2) Chernigov, Moldavia, Bulgaria, ( Attacked it when there was no one there, 3rd or 4th turn, but Hungary attacked there on the same turn so had a fight with them but managed to get the Citadel intact with other facilities to make pavise arbs and valoured bulgarian brigands), Volhynia, (To stop Polish expansion), Serbia & Wallachia, (from rebels so that Hungary may not get them). (This is in order of taking the provinces)
3) Then bribed lithuania, the general there was eager to be bribed so did not cost much and got a castle at very cheap which could produce arbs too.
4) Hungary was on war with me, so I attacked the province of Hungary then and got it on a single blow. Another extra castle for me to produce some starred Militia Sergeants. (meanwhile i was preparing well for the golden horde coming), The total strength of Hungary was splitted and the main production centre was Hungary, so it hurt them well. In the meanwhile the English came with a Crussade to Constantinopole, which i let go pass me and they hold constantinopole.
5) Hungarians went on attacking me at Hungary to recapture it, and i just defended it for a few turns so their strength gets less (got a good ransom once for the captured King) and then i made the final blow attacking Croatia and Carpathia on a single turn and capturing them both. They became a extinct race and have not re-emerged till now.
6) Meanwhile the English called for a crusade to Hungary with around 1500 people and stopped at bohemia and is still standing there with around 200 men. They did not get the courage of attacking my around 500 men stationed at Hungary. I went for Prussia at that time but my friends the Polish attacked there on the same turn with greater army, so just let them have it and helped them a bit on the fight, loosing not a single man. Italians were cemented allies after marrying my princess there.
7) Now I looke towards the Steppe lands, and wanted to reconsolidate for the Golden Horde attack on 1231. Conquered Ryazan, Smolensk, Crimea one after another. Everyone here suggested not to take Volga-Bulgaria and Khazar but I thought of taking volga so that my cash increases a bit as it was not in very good conditions because of the heavy army maintenance. So took volga and earned some cash from it, and thought of leaving it to the GH or rebels as I wanted as they appeared. So left only a single unit of steppe cavalry there but still they did not revolt.
8) In this time my good ally Germans suddenly called for a crusade to Novogrod from Bohemia and moved diagonally towards it. I was least prepared for this, so gathered whatever I can to guard volhynia first (when the crusade army of 1000 was in poland) and moved them to lithuania (as they switced to Prussia) and that crussade army too is still standing at Prussia (with 150 men) and did not attack my force of around 500 in Lithuania. It actually helped me too, I did not a single rebel in the rebellious province Lithuania as it is suggested to be. Then they proposed a marriage with their princess and make alliance, which i did gracefully.
9) Now I consolidated totally for the GH attack and built my defences at moscow, kiev, chernigov, ryazan,(halbs and arbs) pereyaslavl, crimea (Militia sergeants, woodsmen from lithuania, bulgarian brigands from bulgaria and ocassional mercenary viking units from the inns). Now All have one full single stack of army now guarding those provinces. I also built ships and merchants at novogrod and lithuania and meanwhile captured the meagre Finland (they are not worth capturing though, very few cash)
10) As soon as i built my first ship i invaded sweeden with some men from the excess army standing for the german crussade at lithuania and captured it and started rebuilding my defences and trade in the baltic region. I also bribed the province of Livonia then to get another castle with facilities, and some good army and to my surprise the general there was waiting for this (-50% bribery cost) and took only 600 florins from me for the castle and his army. Really dam cheap.
11) Meanwhile my good ally Italians were at a constant war with the English in Constantinopole (After crussade army) and i just watched and gathered some forces at Bulgaria. When the English were only 200 people still holding Const., I attacked with around 200 men there as the italians also attacked with arond 400 people at the same time from Greece. I let them attack first while my arbalesters were only attacking the armoured Royal Knights & Order Foots only. It was really a very interesting battle. They were defending from a forest on top of a small hill and coming out and going in of the jungle. The italians were soon finished by them and their general flee past my small army and i was in charge. After a good battle (hard fought indeed), i could get them, only 5 men escaped to guard the Fortress for 8 years. So I first tried to bribe those 5 men at 2000 florins but they raised their cost to 4000 florin and their general turned to be very loyal to be bribed. So, later I sneaked through one of my spies into the fortress and he opened the gate and my army took the castle at night with a minimum loss of 30 men only instead of 4000 cash. Think that it was a good idea of me. what do u think? Got a Fortress with all facilities and offices and around 1000 Fl income per turn there with minimal effort. Still not distributed the titles at offer there.
So now this is the situation, all these provinces are mine, around 35-40% of the total map is now light blue in colour (Colour for Russia). The Hungarians are gone. Other extinct ones are the Aragons, The Byzantines, Papal states. I have scored my full GA points in 1225, whereas others are less than half my points. Now also have all the GA needs, rather more provinces captured than actually needed. Doing trade at the baltic and trying to do the same in the mediterrinian also (venice, etc.). I am the man with most army, highest technology and highest income and highest adoration of my people. All provinces are at 200% at highest tax rates, only some are a bit lesser than that. My good allies are Italy (gave another princess to them), Poland (helping them in their war with germans now), Turks (They took care of the byzantines and hoped for const. too but could not reach before me and are with a big army at nicea and engaged in fight against the GH at Georgia), The Danes, The Spanish, Sicily, etc. Only one I am in war with is England, but wish to make an alliance with them soon to expand my trade. Though the germans have not done any threat till now, not sure how long they will not harm me , so strengthening my western fronts now. The GH are at Khazar for 10 years now but still not attacked me, even not at 40 men guarded volga-bulgaria and i am enjoying the cash that i get from there.
Now friends what do u think regarding what should i do next? what i have done good or bad as per u, pls make comments. As all my GA goals are fulfilled should i expand more or should i just expand my trades from now on.
Waiting for the GA to attack through the bridges to face my halbs and arbs. Or should I attack them now?
Pls give all your suggestions and comments.Thanking you all.
---A newbie to the Guild
Archungel
02-17-2006, 18:02
i play as the russians the most and i have a small basic strategy that works pretty well. first of all i moded the russians to start in the early period by replacing the faction of novgorod as the faction russia(cause i like the russians better) and i just liked having more time. but the strategy works for the high period start too. basically just build spearmen and some sort of cheap calvary. and personally command the fist few battles that are small because with horses you can get a huge win over the enemy. as for buildings just build up to a spearmaker and a stable or which ever you need to get the horse of your choice and then build chruches. apart from that build armor and grain production if you want or it is a good area. i never build a high tech level of anything cause the key to russia is that you are poor and you need to basically know that quantity>>quality in many cases. once youve grown and started to encounter the other european countries its ok to build maybe some more elite units. the conquering strategy that i use is to basically conquer NE europe except for where the horde would come in and dont get to frisky into hungery/poland. wait for the horde to come cause if you jump the gun and expan too quickly they will destroy all the work to did to build up those provences in a single turn. after the horde has come and gone expand downwards to greece and take asia minor and the middle east because it is easily defendable and they are isolated and you dont end up making the cathiolic countries mad that quickly. also its very easy to use ships to spread your troops to countries from remote parts of your homeland so you can amass an army in like 2 turns or 1 if if want and have 1000 spearmen in the middle east in 1 or 2 turns. thats power right there. and if 800 of the spearmen die then no real loss cause they probably took out a number of enemy troops and you can reproduce that same army again in like 2 turns. spearmen=cheap and effective for me. hope this helps someone.
idiotpariah
02-28-2006, 21:26
Novgorod in Early:
I tend to play a different way to the constantinople. I actually go for the steppe provinces. I was playing expert and the byzantines had an annoying habit of attacking a province the same time I did. So they got Moldavia and later Khazar. I took Khazar later so I had a nice clean border.
I go for Moscavia on the first turn and lithuania on the second. I start building watch towers and PULL ALL MY MEN OUT, then put the taxes to very high. The subsequent rebellion is tiny and means I get some very good generals pretty quickly. It also acts as a supplementary income from knocking them back out of my territories. The vital thing when you do this is to lower taxes so that when you move your men in loyalty is above 100%, otherwise you could have a really large rebellion on your hands. Loyalty will rise steadsily (and keep building in the meantime). When they are mostly loyal garrisonthem and then move on to the other steppe provinces. Ideally have an army switching back and fore between two rebellios provinces. I tend to use the large steppe provinces for farming, the smaller ones for building. The baltic provinces are my shipbuilding and trade, and I make a beeline for Sweden, finland (and denmark if they took sweden) for the trade, huscarles and iron. Kiev and Khazar build ships from the other direction to link up trade and so i have a good idea of the balance of power in the world. By this time (1135) I'm making a 10,000 (15000-5000 upkeep)profit per year and am only at war with the idiotic polish (who didnt like me allying with the HRE so cancelled an attack on lithuania). I've been investing heavily in farming for the future trade disruption which will happen, then building up provinces for war. Novgorod as a faction also has a massive advantage in that very few buildings give some very powerful units- spearmaker nets rus spearmen and a simple fort nets you vikings and often slav infantry. I've got 5 provinces building ships so soon I'll have the African and middle eastern coast covered and revenue will get to about 20,000
My army now consists of +1 valour steppe cavalry (muscovy master horse), +1 vikings (norway), huscarles, rus spearmen, heavy steppe cavalry and, in a few more years, +1 valour boyars. Now I plan to take a few more islands, build up and wait for the golden horde. I could destroy the byzantines/turks egyptians but then the game gets a bit easy nad my favourite faction normally is the byzantines so i want to be friendly. I now have 2 6 star generals and a few 4 star ones so my borders are covered well. My number one general is also almost impossible to bribe, not that the pc ever does it but its a matter of pride.
if 800 of the spearmen die then no real loss cause they probably took out a number of enemy troops and you can reproduce that same army again in like 2 turns. spearmen=cheap and effective for me. hope this helps someone.
I mostly rely on the elite Halbrs and Arbls to take the brunt of invasion and defence. I hardly loose a battle when I have 6 Halbs + 6 Arbls on the field, but the problem is to build and maintain them, espesially when the income is not so good.
What do you do with those unfortunate :skull: spearmen? Do you just line them up and say good luck, or do you have some strategy :book: with them? Do you use only the spearmen, or do you support them with other units?
I am somewhat stuck with my present campaign as Russians. I have conquered all the East and West european countries except England. Spain, Middle-East and Africa is all that remains, but I am not able to mobilise my armies and resources to even consider taking action in that direction.
I have large armies but they are not free to move, because of the chaos that result when I move out of a province, that is in spite of a fort + 200 peasants in those provinces. The peasants goes on revolting even when taxes are low! :furious3:
" . . . the peasant nations of Western Europe dont like me as their King too much . . . " (said in a sort of Russian accent...)
I am only controlling rebelions and reappearance acts. It seems somewhat useless to invade a province that brings an income of 300 florins, when I have to support those units that keeps the peace with more than 800 florins, so I have stopped training any more units because I need to raise my cash for buildings and I dont care to take any more provinces. Invading and fighting rebelous peasants is a source of income, but I have grown tired of killing peasants and archers . . . I'm trynig to increase the loyalty, building churches and so on, but it takes so much time with little effect.
In the South I can see massive Almohad armies moving in an out of Turkish provinces, I suspects that the Turks (a barrier between me and the Almohads) will eventually be destroyed, and I will have the Almohads on my doorstep while my armies are still employed in controlling the rebels. I'm waiting for my own destruction, as I have almost no free army to protect my far and wide borders
My only plan to break free is to withdraw from the west (destroying all facilities for income and easy re-taking) then head South and destoy the Almohads and then return to the west to retake those provinces. INCOME is the big constrain to my elaborate plan. Any advice out there?
It seems you are suffering from the empire bloat effect. How much time do you think you have before the Almohads invade? If it is less than ten turns than a tactical withdrawal may be in order. If not, improve loyalty quickly. Build churches and recruit religious agents: by spamming priests you should be able to improve loyalty fast. Also construct border forts and get spies: it sounds like there are a few enemy agents on the loose as well. If not, spies are still a good way to improve loyalty and they are cheap. If you've got money to spare you can build happines buildings, but I'd make these a low priority. Lastly, but most importantly, check your governors for loyalty-reducing vices and replace them if they are incompetent. Also keep an eye out for zealots: they tend to make provinces of different religions or low zeal unhappy as well.
Loyalty . . . underlines the difference between a well managed empire with hopes of survival and an empire that will not stand the test of the Almohad . . .
The Almohads have now crushed the Turks and they are on my door as I expected. Massive armies are moving about on my borders but have not attacked yet. I am not completely ready for full scale war. I have managed to build some low cost armies to add to my numbers, and free the elite armies from north and western europe. This was achieved by abondoning low income provinces, allowing re-emergence of HRE and Poles and most important increasing loyalty. Thanks for the advice brother Ludens! Spies and Border fort are easy objectives to reach and they have a good effect. The lower tax rates are of some concern, but that compromise must be accepted until all Loyalty buildings are complete. Managing the governors are the only real issue that takes some patience, but it is worth the effort. Some of my (previous) Governors had some really bad attributes as far as keeping the population loyal and happy, since I only focussed on the accumen attribute. Finding suitable Governors is an issue, and I 'interview' all newly trained units, every year.
The final outcome is yet to be seen . . .
Oh bloody hell! All seems lost . . . :shame: as all Europe is in full scale revolt! Lost a battle where my 200 peasant could not keep a fort against a double stack of the Almohads, and this defeat has encouraged these other people, to rebel against me, their good and just leader. I have build the provinces to everyones needs, and placed agents to be sure and when all seemed so well I increase the tax rate to have maximum income while loyalty is balanced between 100% and 110% in the provinces. Now I lost a meaningless battle, and chaos and fire followed. Aaargh! :furious3: I dont know how to pick up the peices, my armies are far from the rebelious provinces, and they have to deploy against my invaders, oh and why oh why has my income dropped to negative 2400 florins this year?:inquisitive:
Now can somebody out there tell me what to do . . . :help:
I guess my advice was not so sound after all. It sounds like a tactical retreat would have been better. You should not weaken yourself fighting rebels if the Almohads look so powerfull. Perhaps you can still do that. Leave the priests in place (as you want those provinces to be Orthodox whether you or the Almohads occupy them), but consider withdrawing your spies, as they are at great risk when the Almohads capture or build borderforts.
I guess I can explain how this happened, as a rebelling province tends to drag nearby provinces into rebellion as well. To prevent this, it often advisable to keep loyalty at 120%. I don't know how one single defeat could cause such chaos, but perhaps your king has low influence. In which case: check your generals' loyalty because a civil war might be brewing. Retreating then is not an option, because it will decrease your influence even more. All you can do then is attack and hope to take out the rebels without losing too many valuable men.
Edit: could it be that one of your ship lines has been severed by the presence of enemy ships? This often causes the characteristic rebellions and the drop in income you describe.
Death and Taxes . . . badly managed tax rates almost caused my downfall. I selected automatic management of taxes and title assignement, and that helped, I always tax the provinces to death and rebelions and I dont find the right govenors. The completion of buildings came into efect and now internal peace have come and I can focus on the Almohads, I had to pull out of Navare, but was able to hold onto Aragorn. I also managed to recover some trade, but annual profit is still negative 500 florins. To increase my income will help feed the deadlock against the Almohads . . .
Maloncanth
03-19-2006, 06:17
I've had two games as High Novgorod, both times on Hard GA. Both times I settled on Lithuania/Kiev line and did not touch Scandinavia or Finland (I find the latter too difficult to hold down, and I never did get the boats or manpower to make conquering Scandinavia worth it; this was before my Denmark game, when I discovered how broken Sweden was). The first time I snuck in too much infrastructure building and the second time I got enough halberds, boyars and mercenaries to autoresolve the horde to death.
My conclusion is to build against the horde. :p Screw around too much trying to farm the steppes and you end up messing around with them, dueling around Kiev/Chernigov/Muscovy for decades, having to maintain armies in 3 provinces. Once you get Khazar though, then the sky suddenly seems to clear. ;p
The deadlock with the Almohads continues. The enemy can not push me back (from aragorn and Aquitaine) and I do not have the resourse to invade him and defend my two provinces at the same time. Every year I manage to build enough elite troops and dispatch them to the front, where they face certain death ('Only death is certain' from the movie Kingdom of Heaven).
Income is still a major problem, my funds are not increasing, so it is difficult to develop other provinces to increase unit production of parrabellum troops.
I have rejected using anything else other than Halberdiers and Crossbows as the mainstay of any army.
I have to break the deadlock, but how? It seems that the overall development of the empire lacked in many ways in the early years, and it is not easy to remedy at this late stage . . .
Agent Miles
09-10-2007, 16:56
Russia-Expert/Late/GA, MTW/VI, no mods. This is a good challenge right from the start. Whatever you try to do the Golden Horde will invade. It is difficult to do anything because you must save up 8K florins to build a fortress in Muscovy before 1377. I chose a really basic plan that should work most of the time. I “streamlined” Novgorod to produce arbalesters and Muscovy to produce halberdiers and Steppe Heavy Cavalry (Boyars cost more than twice as much to maintain than SHC and aren’t much better.). Buildings that I could do without were destroyed.
I was able to produce a 4-acumen peasant to govern each province and I gave each a plus-two acumen title to increase income. I set taxes to max. In Muscovy I built a master horse breeder. In Novgorod I built a shipwright and a shipyard. This way I could make the caravel, which is less expensive to maintain than the barque. I trained a garrison for my two provinces of eight arbs, three halbs and four SHC led by either my faction ruler or a prince. Speaking of princes, they can bankrupt you. I usually send them off to get slaughtered in Finland. This will eventually add Finland to your empire. I gave the governorship to one of my combat units along with the plus-one acumen/command star title. A spy and the two peasant units I had built kept Finland happy. A trading fleet will get you several hundred needed florins from Finland.
I built three caravels to get my trade going. I built a third army as above and took Sweden from my ally Denmark. Sweden is a good trade province. While beating off GH attacks, I was able to add Norway, Denmark and Saxony to my realm. I ransomed the Danish king for 11K, which helped a lot. In 1405, I am third in the GA race, my trade fleet stretches to the western Med and I have a disposable income of 3K. Spain and Egypt lead in the GA race because they get more points for their many homeland provinces. I haven’t decided which one I will destroy first.
Is late Russians a challenge? Perhaps i should try that out oneday...
I usually mod the Novgorod as Russians and take it from early... conquer the steppes while fending off the Poles and Byzantines and just about when you do ok, the Mongols come. You fight for your life and eventually in a couple of decades you send them packing from the steppes after which one can enter at leisure in Poland and Hungary before taking over Anatolia and Greece.
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