Motivation

[The Wizard]

Indeed... how do you keep going with your stories? Is it the praise from fans, the will to tell a story which has been sitting in your mind to others, or something else?

Since I have quite a lot of problems keeping my motivation high, which is bad since without it my imagination can't work and I can't write a story, I'd like to hear your ways of keeping your story going



~Wiz

[frogbeastegg]

A combination of things.

A need to write - if I find a good story I have to write it, really have to. Right now I am working away at Red Hand simply because I can see a certain scene two years off in the future from where they are now and that scene has to be recorded. The stuff in between is good enough, and worth writing, but it is all background for that one event I am powering towards. Eleanor is more peculiar - I write that not so much because I like the story, or consider it to be good, but because I can see a princess and her bodyguard telling me to get on with it. Right now she is sat by a window in her little castle with her head propped on her fist, telling me that while Culad isn't bad I'll soon be back to writing her story, and using my new improvements on that. How can a frog argue with that? I just told her to go play with Fulk for a few days so I could finish this and get back ot her sooner.

Take a look at the beginning of Eleanor, the very first part. Notice all the spelling mistakes, typos, clumsy bits, and general blerghishness? Now look at the last part of Eleanor, notice how a lot of that has cleared up, but there are still many problems? Then compare that to Red hand, and you'll spot another large improvement, along with a new host of problems. I won't ask you to look back at the earlier stuff I wrote - it is too bad for words. I like to see that, to know I am getting better, even if I still have a very long way to go before hitting reasonable.

Comments from other people are not my motivation, but if no one commented I admit I would stop posting - note I said stop posting, not stop writing, because I would still write. I made the mistake of stopping writing because of what someone said once before, and it cost me more than 13 years of wasted time, and broke my childhood dream of being an author one day.

Comments of all kinds are welcome - from a simple lol to a complex discussion of how something just doesn't work. If you like something, then say so. If you don't like something, then say that too, but explain why. If you find something confusing then speak up. If something was funny, or not funny, please say why. I am, essentially, making this up as I go along. While I may do a lot of reading that doesn't mean I know how to tell a story. When you are so close to a story and its characters you tend to lose your ability to spot plot holes or other problems, so if no one else points them out the problem will only grow. When it comes to writing the two things I don't like (namely romance and fighting) I need all the help and encouragement I can get, or I will be sat at home hating what I have written even if it is all right, or thinking something works when it doesn't. There is little quite so bad as working on a scene for literally weeks, only to find you still hate it and actually have no idea of how good it is(n't) because of the length of time you have spent looking at it. I hate the window scene from Eleanor for that very reason - I suspect it doesn't work, but I can no longer tell.

The main motivation is simply because I find it fun, and since that story needs to be told…

[Monk]

For me it's always been a number of things

I go through games like mtw searching for a good story, sometimes I find them and sometimes not. However when that good storyline comes along, when the people in which it centers around I remember even when i turn the game off, thats when i decide I have to write about them. I work on my current story An Empty Paradise because of what happens to the Crusaders, though i have not had much time to actually write it, there lies a great tale to be told. Knowing there is a great story there, i can't let it lay untold. I try to understand those i write about; people like Manuel the Reluctant Emperor, and Edward the Doomed King. Understanding them lets me convey their emotions and actions better. Edward wept for the fate of his people, while Manuel despaired about the mysteries that tore his family apart.

It's hard for me to explain, but once i create a character in my stories, they sort of take on a life of their own. Once i begin the tale, i have to finish it. The thing is most of the people in my stories have some tragedy befall them, and though it is only a game and not real, even they deserve to have a song sung or a tale woven in their honor.

I don't write for the praise of the fans. Though the comments that the patrons of this forum post does reassure me that what i am writing isn't crap, thats not why i do it. I do it because i find it enjoyable ( i believe i've said that before ) reading great tales and writing my own is fun for me, and afterall...if I don't tell the story of these brave warriors and their fate, then who will?

[The Wizard]

Well, you see, my problem is that there are constantly new stories popping up in my mind and they always seem more attractive than what I am writing at that moment. I've had a certain story called 'Eve of Battle' going for over a year now, because I can't find the motivation to finish it. I know kind of what's going to happen, but without the motivation I just can't do it.

I kind of miss the time when story-writing came without the question of motivation, but with the question of imagination. At this moment I'm cooking up a new story while I try to get over my writer's block in Eve of Battle.

Edit:: Oh right, I'm also a perfectionist, and there is always a part of the story which I don't like, I've only had a very few chapters which I was absolutely 100% happy with. Added to that is the fact that I build up the excitement slowly, steadily, working it up to the climax of the main concentration-curve, which is almost always long, containing several smaller curves to keep up the pace for the reader, but I always want to get to that big climax and don't get any motivation out of wanting to get there. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif



~Wiz

[Voigtkampf]

I have times filled with strong motivation and zeal, and at other instances I am in a deep lethargy and can't get off my couch. Well, I understand Sherlock Holmes was much alike, and I do not use heroine, so that's a head start.

As for the stories; I've had thousands of stories that crossed my mind, and I have ever completed only a small amount of them. But if the stories do not survive for a long time in my head, then I know that they are good perceived, and if I fail to write them down exactly as I want, I know that I have failed as a writer. Just keep writing when you feel like, and all things will come to their places by themselves, like laughter and tears.

[Axeknight]

I honestly don't know. I think, just my desire to write. But I write in irregular bursts (that reminds me, I need to start part 3 of Fitzjohn).

For example, with my Fitzjohn story (saga? tale? series? whatever), I wrote part 1, then almost immediately started on part 2. But it's been weeks, and I still haven't started part 3.

I like to read people's thoughts and ideas on the stories I write, and it's reassuring to hear they aren't utterly awful (so go comment on part 2 or I'll cry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif).

[Shahed]

Artists must paint, architects must build.

[Ludens]

I write because I like to feel the flow of ideas through my mind. When I am writing, I am at the same time elaborating the story, giving it more details, making it feel more real. I always have ideas for short stories, but most of them are dull. If they survive in my mind for more than a year, they are probably good. They form the general outline for the stories I write. Off these ideas, one turned into the 'Alexander the Great' story, and I am working on a second: 'Hero'. Two other ideas are still lingering in the back of my mind.

My second motivation is ambition. This is something that came up after I posted my first story here. The story was not good, not good enough for me. I could do better. So I started the Alexander-tale, which was better. But still not as good as I think I can do. So now I am working on 'Hero' in the hope that it is going to be perfect. I doubt it will, but that is not going to stop me.

Lastly, a sense of obligation, that I ought to finish a story quickly for anyone who took the time to read it. And a story should be read as a whole, not in small parts coming one week after another. But that led to me rushing the Alexander-story. So 'Hero' is going to be posted after I finished it.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ April 29 2004,14:50)]broke my childhood dream of being an author one day
You talk like you no longer think you can be an author http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[frogbeastegg]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ May 14 2004,07:46)]
Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ April 29 2004,14:50)]broke my childhood dream of being an author one day
You talk like you no longer think you can be an author http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Authors need to be able to spell. They need neat handwriting. The need to be able to write nicely with good punctuation. They need to be able to tell a story. They need to write something that is not based in history becasue history is crap. They need to be interesting and really good at writing, and honestly dear you're not. So sayth one of my primary school teachers, along with a few of her colleagues. What else can a very little, shy froggy do but believe this damning verdict?

I wasted more than 15 years because of them, telling me over and over how I could never write until I gave up and believed them. I got more of the same the one occasion I raised the subject in an oblique way at secondary school. I can't spell, have bad handwriting and have nothing interesting to write about, so forget about it.

I only started writing again because of some freak accident; remember that old story I did in a topic about shogun? That was the first thing I had written in more than 15 years because I wanted to tell a story. Strangely people liked it, so I did another story, and another, and then this place was opened and I got voted as AM, so I had to keep writing. I never really thought any of my work was good, the guides yes but not the fiction, but others seemed to get a bit of amusement from it. I could see some slight improvement in each piece, but there was always so much left to do. Eleanor was the first thing where I started to see some hint of good, but there is so much that needs doing to that series I am tempted to start it again and get it right this time. I won an award for that story, but it still seems so lacking, so wrong. By this point my spelling was far better, and my vocabulary was expanding back to its original size before I had to dumb it down so the idiots I was at school with could understand me.

Red Hand is the first thing I have written where I can look back through it and see a story I enjoy reading, not a mass of errors and mistakes to be changed. Red Hand I like writing, even those fighting and romance scenes seem to flow quite easily. Perhaps the biggest indicator of Red Hand's success is that it has got more comments from more people than anything but the guides, and that is not just because I have it posted on two forums. Over at Paradox I have people demanding updates, and even one person saying he hates story AARs but mine has him hooked.

Can I be an author now? No. Can I keep working, and maybe get there one day? Maybe. Writing on the Internet does not make you good, being liked on the Internet does not make you publishable. Something like 1% of people who write on the net make it to real print, not many.

In the end I like writing, and I finally feel as though I am doing something I am suited to instead of bending my talents to do things they were never intended for. Even if this never becomes more than a hobbey it is one that is...worthwhile.

[Axeknight]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ May 14 2004,11:54)]What else can a very little, shy froggy do but believe this damning verdict?
Yeah, but you're older and wiser now (why am I starting to sound like a parent?), and must understand that something a primary school teacher says should not affect you in the slightest. They teach 2+2=4, and that's about it. They know nothing about creativity, because they teach 4 year olds. Don't let something that happened way back stop you from writing.

You're always trashing your own work, saying how awful you think it is. It's not, it's very good. It may appear as though I have my right hand chained to the Red hand topic, as I've posted in it almost as many times as you, but it's because I like the story. The search for 'perfection', in the hope of improving, is fine, but don't overdo it. Don't let something which wrecked your confidence years ago ruin it now.

The best writers are the confidant ones, because after all if you publish something, people are going to read it. If they are confidant with writing and their own abilities, they're more likely to get them published. So be a bit more confidant, self-evaluate your work, but don't just trash it and describe it as something that 'seems so lacking, so wrong'.

Gah - sermon over. I'm not too confidant with writing stuff for the net either, so do as I say, not as I do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . Sorry to sound so patronizing, BTW.

[Mount Suribachi]

When I was at primary school, I couldn't draw & I had terrible handwriting. I still can't draw & I still have terrible handwriting. Because I couldn't draw & had terrible handwriting I never, ever had anything of mine stuck on the wall. Every parents evening my dad would come home and ask why there was nothing of mine stuck on the classroom wall. The conclusion of this 6 year old was It must be cos I am stupid. After all, all the other kids had stuff stuck on the wall.

I can still vividly remember the day I was stood in the queue for school dinner and my teacher pulling me out of the line and giving me the telling off of my life. I mean, she was going absolutely mental at me. I was just totally stunned and wondering what could have caused such a dressing down. Apparantly it was my poor handwriting on a story I'd handed in. The only specific thing I could remember was that my writing wasn't on the line. I still remember her shoving it under my nose and shrieking LOOK AT IT LOOK AT IT I must have been like, 7 at the time. Not hard to see why I thought I was a dunce eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

Oh, did I mention I had been bumped up a year cos I was brighter than everyone else in my year? So when I was 5, I was in a class of 6 year olds. I was totally unaware of this till I left primary school.

How I would love to track that teacher down, take my BSc (Hons) in Chemistry and stick it where the sun don't shine http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif


Anyway, the point of this rant is - you have talent, you're still young, you have desire and you have a niche. More like niches actually - history, archeology, computer games. You have developed a reputation on at least 3 boards. TBH, I can't believe CA haven't already employed you to write the official strategy guide for RTW. Hell, it'd be better than the crap that the Prima one will be.

[frogbeastegg]

Axeknight if you think this is an overly modest froggy you should read some of my very old posts, and you'll soon see that the frog who says Red Hand is good is a beacon of amphibian confidence in comparison. You will also see why I hate my old work, take a look (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=24;t=9496) for yourself.

I write now, and will keep on writing. I don't expect to be published, but one day I may try if I feel I have a good enough story. Red Hand in it's entirety, and polished up with whatever new tricks I learn writing it could actually make a decent enough novel. It is very fair to say what you have read now is no more than a happy introduction...

As I see it most of my 'trashing' divides into two flavours:
1. Looking back at old work and knowing I can improve it dramatically with what I have learned since then.
2. Trying something new which I don't know much about, first attempts very seldom turn out good.

You should do as you say, the more you write the more you learn, and so the more you dislike your older work. At the same time you get that little bit happier with your current piece, and that boosts your confidence.

Mount Suribachi, well if CA ever want me all they need to do is ask, and pay at least a nominal fee so I can shut my family up about writing being a waste of time. If I ever do get published I will be dedicating my first book to my teachers, the few good ones will get thanks, the rest will get a nice note saying Look at where I am now, I hope you choke to death reading this but in nicer words http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

3 boards? Here, Paradox sort of, where is the third?

[The Wizard]

Now that I think of it, American teachers didn't like their pupils to do something else than the exact subjects they were teaching, and those they were planning to teach.

Never noticed that until now... I have always preferred the Dutch schools anyways. Well, except the period where I was sort of a pariah in 6th grade of Dutch school... it was the school where I had been quite happy with when I was 5 and 6... but then they puked me out like a hairball. Painful to think back to, but it's much, much better now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif



~Wiz

[Axeknight]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ May 14 2004,20:57)]Look at where I am now, I hope you choke to death reading this but in nicer words http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
No, use those words. And in the title

But still a little modest, try this one: Look where I am now, you dirtbags I hope you all die of some painful and embarrrasing disease like facial haemmaroids

Set your sights higher http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

3 - the KOTOR boards were your lengthy discourses on Bastillas psyche and your short story inspired muchos praise.

And for what its worth, I still liked Bad Character Hell. It was ingenious, original and very funny.

[ShadesWolf]

I find it is important to try and have a routine. try and write each day, for a set amount, if you can write longer all well and good.

I try to do 30minutes a day. It might not be a story, but it could be setting up characters, research, drawing out a map of a kingdom, creating character and their charactoriscs etc......

I also find when playing battles in MTW and then saving the battle at the end is an excellent way to create a battle story.

But I have always had the same problem ,I always write to much, to much detail and they end up being 20 pages when really they should only be about three http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[zelda12]

Wiz I have the same problems I have recently started writing and posting (check out For the King on totalwar.com MTW forum, I tried it on here but am having troubles getting it all posted without it scrambling bits. well I tried it on the entrance hall hoping it would get moved.) and find that I need to have some motivation or overidding boredom to compel me to write. The problem is that I read extensively and so draw many ideas from these books. I can sometimes have as many as ten ideas per day, but lack the motivation to write these although I am getting better at writing.

Frog I have the same probs with spelling and handwriting. So I use a simple device to counter this namely word. Which helps because as well as spell check it means that I have to slow down, because I dont type as fast as I write, which means when I do write I can compose my writing more and concentrate on structuring the story and my spelling