The Wheel of Time Mod

[Myrddraal]

http://82.68.81.226/david/Wot2.jpg

The Wheel of Time – Total War
A mod for Medieval – Total War

Based on the series of fantasy books by Robert Jordan

The Wheel of Time turns and Ages come and go, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth returns again. In the Third Age, an Age of Prophecy, the World and Time themselves hang in the balance. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the Shadow.

Notice: It would help a lot to have read the Wheel of Time series or at least some of the books to fully enjoy this mod. I strongly recomend the series.

REVIEW:

Review
"Jordan has come to dominate the world that Tolkien began to reveal"

"Jordan is able to take...familiar elements and make them his own, in a powerful novel of wide and complex scope. Open religious and political conflicts add a gritty realism, while the cities and courts provide plenty of drama and splendor. " --The New York Times

"Epic in every sense" --Sunday Times

"A powerful vision of good and evil" --Orson Scott Card


Wheel of Time Total War is set in the world from the series with an all new campaign map, set in the period leading up to the story of the book. All 18 nations and factions are playable with their own individual Royal and basic units from the series, including: Queens Guards, Defenders of the Stone, Two Rivers Longbowmen etc. A completely new system of castles where forts are replaced by towns and cities, with about 18 levels of fort. Completely new buildings and upgrades, such as Town Halls, Tax Collectors, Illuminators Guildhouses and Pedlers. A truely evil enemy of all, with whom it is impossible to ally with. New agents based on the existing abilities including, Aes Sedai advisors, The Hand of the Light and Grey Men. New ships including Sea Folk Rakers and Soarers. A whole new Historical campaign based on the battles from the books. A world and story with great potential for expansion packs such as The Seanchan Invasion? the Ten Nations? the possibilities are endless. :knight:

[Myrddraal]

Screenshots so Far

The Main Menu:
http://82.68.81.226/david/Mainmenu.jpg

The Factions Map:
http://82.68.81.226/david/Minimap.jpg

Part of the Campaign Map:
(The place names on this map are not necessarily province names, they are only to let readers of the books know where this is. #They do not indicate the size of provinces)
http://82.68.81.226/david/BraemWood.jpg

A new style of fort: #Fortified Town with Keep
http://82.68.81.226/david/Keep.jpg

Part of the Campaign Map: #(Tremalking)
http://82.68.81.226/david/Tremalking.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Myrddraal]

Some of you may know that this mod is in need of a Unit Graphics designer. This is to help in producing the units for the shadow.

As this mod will hopefully be based as an expansion, only 10 new bifs will be needed. You don't need to do all 10, but any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

P.S. If the screenshots above are too large, please post and I will reduce their size.

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Keep it up and give me yet anothe reason to get a larger HD. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I like your Fortified Town with Keep, looks great. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
_

[Lazul]

ooohhh.... OOOH... WOT... sweeeet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Man im jumping up and down, I just love WoT http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif


Im reading the swedish books so i dont know the english names but, as I understand it some of the factions in WoT arent really under the rule of one person. Andor is, but not Tear, so will the Tear ruler be like HRE, in other words be elected?


so will the total factionlist be like this or?:
*Andor (Two Rivers a part of andor in the book right?)
*Illian
*Tear
*Arafeal
*Shienar
*Mayene (minor faction or part of Tear?)
*Altara
*Amadicia
*Tarabon
*Ghealdan
*Arad Doman
*Saldaea
*Kandor
*The Shadow (all in one faction?)
*The Aiel (in the books they are invicnible if they are united so wouldnt it be to hard for the others if the aiel are one faction?)
*The Sea people - Atha'an Miere (theese weird dudes are only traders so i dont se how they can be a faction? In the books they arent really intrested in landareas)
*Tar Valon (popelike? theese guys cant be defeated so I dont think they should be a faction in the game.. for the sake of balance).
*Sons of the Light (I dont know the english name)
*Seanchan (a bit overpowered maybe? like Tar Valon)

did i miss something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Myrddraal]

Hi Lazul

The mod in a time period before the books. As I said there will hopefully be two eras. Early era (can't think of a better name right now), and the Aiel War.

If u look at the factions map the Aiel Waste is not on the map, the Aiel will appear in the Jangai Pass (hopefully like the Mongols in MTW if I can work out how). The game will end when Rand al'Thor declares himself. (Rand is born during the Aiel War)

Mayene will be a faction of its own

The Two Rivers will be part of Andor, but will start with no men in it. It will be quite rebellious so u have to keep taxes down.

The Seanchan will not be in the game as they come along later.

The English version for Sons of the Light is the Children of the Light. I think I will merge the Children with the Amadicians. (The Amadicians are basically ruled by the children and otherwise there wouldn't be enough provinces to go round in that part of the map).

I'm not sure about making Tar Valon a rebel group or a proper faction. Suggestions are welcome.

The Shadow will be one faction, but I think that the ruler will have to start in a dummy province so that you don't get the Borderlanders allying with him. Unfortunately that would make the Shadow invincible, but that doesn't matter, u can still take all their provinces.

The Sea Folk (as they are called in the english version) will be a faction, and will own all the islands. They will have nearly no army, but a huge fleet. Trade will be mostly done through the sea folk, and I will increase the money u get from imports.

Hope this explains a little better.

[Myrddraal]

Oh yea and I forgot to say about leaders getting elected. I will try and implement this for Tear, and also I think I remember reading in 'The World of Robert Jordans - The Wheel of Time' that the Domani ruler is elected by a council of merchants, I'll check on that.

Another thing I forgot to mention: Women rulers

Andor and the Sea folk only have women as their rulers (Sexist) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Its in the books so I'm going to try and do it. A method I thought of would be to make the portraits for these factions rulers women, and give those factions unisex names. Unfortunately, heirs use the same images as generals, so they would have to be men and have a quick sex change when they ascend to the throne
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Duke John]

Myrddraal
I would like to suggest that you use JPGs for screenshots. If you use compressed (25%) JPGs a 600x400 screenshot (which is best for forums) is around 70kb. Your campaignmap screenshot is 1,5MB Compare that to most MOD downloads; 1MB to 7MB. BMPs are definetely not the right format for showing screenshots.

Good luck,
Duke John

[Lazul]

Hey Myrddraal

Well I thought this was the Rand-Era http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

But hey any era will do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

So do you have unitlist or some kind.
The few suggestions I have is(wish i had the english books so sorry if a few names are screwed up:

*Saldaean Light/Heavy Cav. - In the books cav is very important and the Saldaeans use only cav in the books.

*Tear Citadel Guards - Elit foot, a little like JHI

*Children of the Light - Heavy cav, Fanatical Templar style.

There are two ways of organizing the Aiel, one is to call them by the clan names or by the type of unit i.e. Aiel Archers or Aiel Raiders etc etc. The first one is more intresting, but maybe a bit anyoing to make.

Also, some of the Rebells could be called Followers of a Dragon. (only fanatic and desperet farmers in large numbers) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Well now that it is pre-Rand time the Red Hand isnt there... to bad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Myrddraal]

Ok Duke John, I thought this might be a problem. I'll get it fixed as soon as I get to the right comp.

[Myrddraal]

Lazul I can't do Rand era. Why? Because I couln't account for travelling. Rand travels his armies around all the time, and this could not be implemented into the game.

As for the 'Tear Citadel Guards' they're called the 'Defenders of the Stone' in the english version. The Stone of Tear being the big fortress in Tear.

Defenders fight on horsback as well, but I think they should be better dismounted.

Other elite units include:

http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Saldaean Light Cav (as u said),
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Shienaran Heavy Lancers,
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Legion of the Wall (I think thats the right name from the 'world of the wheel of time') for Ghealdean
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Queens Guards and Two Rivers Longbowmen for Andor
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Companions for Illian
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Arafelin Swordsmen for Arafel
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Children of the Light for Amadicia
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Winged guards for Mayene
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Panarch's Legion (spelling~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif ) and King's Guard? for Tarabon

And more I can't remember right now. Basically there is one or more elite unit per faction.

PS. U forgot Murandy in the faction list.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ May 06 2004,17:06)]Also, some of the Rebells could be called Followers of a Dragon. (only fanatic and desperet farmers in large numbers) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Well now that it is pre-Rand time the Red Hand isnt there... to bad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Not necessarily true. I was thinking a good historical event would be the apparition of a false Dragon. It might make the game more interesting.

[NagatsukaShumi]

I've never read or heard of the Wheels of Time BUT I love fantasy novels so I'm already looking forward to this MOD. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Lazul]

Well NagatsukaShumi what can I say... READ THEM hehe, I think there is about 11 english books. They are all very good.
The only think that anoys me is the lack of epic battles, well there are some, but no enough hehe

**

Ah yes I knew I must a forgotten a faction

Winged Guard, erh, they are a little like light lancers right?

[Myrddraal]

Lazul
Yea. I think so. U don't hear much about them in the books apart from they wear red and have streamers on their lances.

NagatsukaShumi

I strongly recommend this series

The first book of the series (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812511816/qid=1083923468/sr=8-4/ref=pd_ka_4/102-5153415-6820956?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[dessa14]

ive got a couple of the books, but im too busy with either homework and such as well as reading the books im reading at the moment to get into the WOT.
thanks, dessa

[CrownOfSwords]

Bah.. finally someone is taking this up.. I tried posting to get a crew together to make this but noone supported it so I gave it up I did make a unit list though.. im a major WOT fan read the books 10+ times.. I definately have more factions than you had setup and alot more units here it is

With my knowledge if you wish I will write up unit descriptions for any of these or other. Im sure I missed a few units in here if anyone thinks of anything else.. Myd my email is north_shoredude@Hotmail.com I use it for MSN also and aim is surfinkauai .. contact me I have alot of ideas for this mod.

unit list

Tear-
Defenders of the Stone
Mounted Nobles
Pikemen
Heavy Pikemen
Light Cavalry
Defenders of the Stone (Anoter unit same thing but archers)
Mounted Defenders of the Stone

Mayene-
Winged Guards (heavy Cavalary Dismountable)
Men at Arms
Pikemen
Heavy Pikemen

Illian-
White Lions (Heavy Cavalary dismountable)
Illian Light Cavalry
Mounted Nobles
Men at Arms
Pikemen
Companions

Andor-
Queens Guard (Heavy Cavalry dismountable)
Men at Arms
Queens Men
Crossbowmen
Mounted Nobles
Two Rivers Longbowmen

Cairhien-
Royal Guard
Palace Guard
Mounted Nobles
Pikemen
Men at Arms
Men of Cairhien

Shienar-
Shienar Heavy Cavalry
Shienar Heavy Infantry
Shienar Footmen
Shienar Cavalry
Shienar Levy
Shienar Archers
Guardians Of the Blight

Amadicia-
Kings Men
Whitecloak Cavalry
Whitecloak Footmen
Men at Arms
Whitecloak Archers

Altara-
Men of Ebou Dar
Palace Guard
Men at Arms
Mounted Nobles
Sailors
Armoured Pikemen
Pikemen

Tarabon-
Pikemen
Armored Pikemen
Mounted Nobles
Archers
Light Cavalry
Heavy Cavalry

Arad Doman-
Royal Guard
Mounted Nobles
Men at Arms
Domani Guard
Domani Cavalry

Saldea-
Saldean Cavalry
Heavy Cavalry
Guardians of the Blight
Borderland Cavalry
Heavy Footmen

Murandy-
Mounted Nobles
Royal Guard
Pikemen
Heavy Pikemen
Murandian Cavalry

Shadowspawn-
Trollocs
Myddral(sp?)
Dark Hounds
Worms

Seachan-
Heavy Infantry
Beast Riders
Heavy Horsemen
Archers
Sailors
Heavy Cavalary

People of the Dragon-
Maidens of the Spear
Stone dogs
Aielmen
Aiel Archers
Aiel Scouts
Legion of the Dragon

Aiel- (not following dragon reborn.. yet )
Aielmen
Maidens of the Spear
Aiel Archers
Aiel Scouts

[CrownOfSwords]

As far as the ages I would do three, Aiel War, After Aiel War, And an age after Rand proclaims himself the Dragon Reborn (he controls Tear and the waste). And with this mod there is just no way you can leave out the Seachan.. you just cant do it if possible have them arrive like in Shogun do not know if it is possible if not start them off on a small province in Altara with a massive army.

And I was given an idea by another person how Ashaman and Aes Sedai/ Damane could be included... Naptha Throwers.. increase their speed and range make very small units of them that take a long time to train... this would definately give the game a touch of magic. And the Aiel cant be left out of the other two ages.. and although for non shadow units there are bifs you can use from mtw.. you are still going to need to make alot more than 10 or the game wont seem right. Please if you are going to make this mod.. make it worth it get someone who knows what they are doing with Bifs.


And are you kidding there are many references to Mayene's Winged Guards in the books.. they fought at Dumai Wells and are currently accompanying Perrin at the end of the last book.. They wear red painted armor with helms that have wings (like gondor) and fight with lances. So they need to really be all red. There should be a footunit of them also who fight with swords and make them a dismountable unit..

Please give me a message later Myd thanks. -Cos

[Myrddraal]

I know CrownOfSwords.

I phrased that wrong, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif what I was trying to say was that after the first description of what they look like, you don't get much description of their abilities, u get told their good, but are they heavy lancers or light?


Quote[/b] ]Clad in ... red breastplates and helmets like rimmed pots that covered
the nape of the neck, and their lances bore red streamers. Their commander, Havien Nurelle, has the same ...
red-painted breastplate and helmet ... though is distinguished from his
troops by ... a single slender red plume.



WHAT

Quote[/b] ]Illian-
White Lions (Heavy Cavalary dismountable)
Illian Light Cavalry
Mounted Nobles
Men at Arms
Pikemen
Companions

The White Lions are a regiment set up by Rahvin in Andor The Companions are Illians elite unit.

Have u read Robert Jordans - The World of the Wheel of Time cos that gives a better insight into the units of the nations.


Which extra factions apart from the Seanchan did u have, I think I included them all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Also I don't see Kandor, Ghealdan or Arafell(sp?) in ur unit list


Quote[/b] ]And I was given an idea by another person how Ashaman and Aes Sedai/ Damane could be included... Naptha Throwers.. increase their speed and range make very small units of them that take a long time to train...

If I remember correctly, that other person was me in an email to u asking if u were interested in doing this mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I've already included this in this mod for Tar Valon.

But as I said in my other post, the actual channeling is not the problem:


Quote[/b] ] Lazul I can't do Rand era. Why? Because I couln't account for travelling. Rand travels his armies around all the time, and this could not be implemented into the game.

You suggested 3 ages. Two of these were Aiel War, and After Aiel War. My thoughts are that this last period is not long enough, about 20 years. As I said, Rand is born during the Aiel War. This is why I merged these two into one, with the Aiel War age ending when Rand Declares himself.


Unit bifs, U don't seem to understand, the reason there might only be 10 new bifs is not that I can't be bothered to make more, but that if the game is to be an expansion u can only have 10 extra bifs (custom0 to custom9). I think that it would be possible to do, u just use the same bif for lots of units (like they do in the actual game), 2 bif for whitecloaks (one mounted one dismounted) 1 for different types of trollocs, 1 for different Aiel etc.

U can give them different shields and weapons without adding bifs


Ur very welcome to help CrownOfSwords as I said in my first email (me = mad_toad@hotmail.com) but what this mod really needs is someone to help design the unit graphics for the shadow.

[CrownOfSwords]

Ah didnt realize you were same person.. you troll on ladymoraines on the morrowind mod forum? Thought that was where it came off of.. Thought I read somewhere in the forum saying you would not put aiel in after the aiel war?? They have to be in there.. as for the bif yes I knew that but the style of all the different countries of cavalry and such.
I wonder if you could use some samurai bifs for seachan? What about Grolm riders? Yes I didnt know anything about Arafel or Kandor so I did not add them into that list yet.. I had some guesses on what they could have for units but I would rather see if someone picked up something I did not.

The largest problem here is we cant have anyone making allies out of the blight that just wouldnt be right.. maybe just take emissaries out of the game? Alright I guess two ages can be done one with aiel war second rand proclaims himself seachan land blight is attacking in real force... another thing is in this second age you may want to make Manetheren or Kingdom of Two rivers or something.. in this phase of the books Two Rivers is in open rebellion from Andor.

Have you looked at using the naptha throwers?? Will it work really curious on that one.. as for Tar Valon should be playable as their troops fought against the Aiel and now the they will be marching on the blight..

Blight provinces need to be highly rebellious also.. you shouldnt be able to invade until you control a large part of the countries... And I think I forgot to add in Dreadlords for blight troops they need their one power troops also..

Yes that was typo I meant White Lions in Andor's unit list...

One of my other ideas... Troops from their home provinces should only be trained there for example Tear conquers Illian they shouldnt be able to train Defenders of the Stone in Illian's provinces but should find they are able to train Companions and other Illian troops there. This should be for all Nations except maybe the blight.. they need to be able to train Trollocs everywhere.. I hope you catch onto my Idea here. Would make the game more like the books to find yourself with Combined armies instead of just your homelands.

Please email me with anything you've worked on Myd... I cant get your pictures to work on this thread too large change them to JPG.

[CrownOfSwords]

Sorry read through the post more and saw more things I wanted to comment on..

I like the idea I saw up there with Rebellions of Dragonsworn.. Should make this a problem to all Kingdoms not following Rand yet.. still the soldiers will be not much more than peasants and you cannot make it too often.

And since all of this happens so quickly is it possible to change it from years to seasons or months? Months maybe even better considering all of this didnt take too long you may have to just lengthen it anyways..

From what you read in the books the Winged Guards are an elite.. definately not cowardly charging into 40,000 Shaido.. Heavily Armoured maybe equal to chivalric knights? Definately need to be full clad in red.

No I havent read Robert Jordans world of wheel of time.. I was told it was a waste of money, but I can see there are some things out of it that will definately help with unit lists for this mod.

And for Ideas of units should look like, there is a WOT card game with many of these soldiers drawn out on them.. ill try to find a link later but that could be a good reference for bifs..

[Myrddraal]

No i'm not troll, I commented on the naphta throwers in an email to u after having seen ur post about getting a team together.

As for not allying to the shadow, I have thought about this one and come up with a solution.
1. U make it so that the shadow cannot build emissaries
2.U make a dummy province, which u cannot enter or exit. U place the leader of the Shadow in this province. This way no emmisaries can reach him.

Problem solved, BUT this would mean that u could not defeat the shadow, only take all his provinces.

CrownOfSwords: This is the THIRD time I say this. Please, PLEASE read my threads before answering.

I cannot do Rand era because I cannot implement TRAVELLING

Rand travels his armies about all the time so this era is not possible.

I'm afraid that as I am the chief programer on this mod I will NOT do Rand era unless u come up with a very good reason.


I have looked into naptha throwers and it will work, but it will mean taking them out of the normal game.

Dreadlord will be included, but U will not be able to build them, only start with them. Same for Aes Sedai or else they will just build loads and take over the world.

I agree about eliet units only being builable in the homlands.

Its not possible to change into months, oh well we'll have to do without that, but its a good idea... pity.

PS. Sorry about the images, the server is down at the moment, I'll get them up asap.

[dimitrios the samian]

Sounds like its gonna be one great game Myrddraal , keep up the good work and thank you very much for helping me .
cheers
Dimitrios

[Myrddraal]

Thx Dimitrios,

Hope ur quest to reduce the bases succeeds.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Myrddraal]

The screenshots are back up again, sorry about the problem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

The images are now in jpg format after a request from Duke John, the quality is obviously reduced, but u still get the general idea.

[CrownOfSwords]

nice screens, what ideas do you have for using MTW units for units in WoT TW? Definately pikemen will do fine.. i suggest maybe changing their helmets for each country will make it more accurate.. Kataprokatoi or a lighter version is good with the viels for Taraboner lancers. Longbowmen for Two Rivermen maybe overwrite longbow on a different model of archer though. Id like to hear your ideas really curious how your going to do a few units.. anyone working on the models for trollocs or aiel? Dont forget to enlargen those trollocs. Children of the Light could maybe be feudal men at arms with reworked shields? And I think you should definately include the white tower.. from many drawings ive seen chivarlic footknights look like tower guards.. small units of warders.. I disagree with the Aes sedai thing though maybe a unit of like 3-10? could be made over like 8 years. -COS

[Myrddraal]

Certainly longbowmen will do fine for Two Rivers Longbowmen, as for Pikemen (and billmen which are common in most armies south of the borderlands according to 'The World of the Wheel') I don't think editing the bifs will be necessary, remember that the men are quite small and I doubt if u would notice if they had different helmets, different shields would be good for spearmen though.

I definitely intend to include new/edited bifs for Trollocs, Myddraal, Creatures of the Blight, Children of the Light, Aes Sedai, Darkhounds and Aiel.

Though I may not make new bifs for many of the human units, I will edit their shields to give a bit of variety, otherwise I think that the faction colours will do fine.

I am working on units at the moment. Two rivers longbowmen are done and although the graphics look very bad, I am working on the different types of Trollocs and have made them larger. The preliminary unit list for the shadow is now available and the descriptions are already written for them, here is a summary:

Myraddraal
Unit size: 20
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Cause fear in all human units
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Disciplined
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can dismount before battle

Dha'vol Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Axes
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Dhai'mon Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Ko'bal Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Spears/Bucklers
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against cavalry
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Ahf'frait Trollocs
Unit size: 50
Weapons: Short bows/Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Kno'mon Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Javelins
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Darkhounds
Unit size: 20
Weapons: n/a
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against mounted troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Cause fear in horses

Creatures of the Blight
Unit size: 20
Weapons: n/a
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders

Darkfriends
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Weak attack
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Very weak defence
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral

Darkfriend Archers
Unit size: 80
Weapons: Bow/Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Weak attack
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Very weak defence
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral

Grey men
Unit size: 10
Weapons: Bows/swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can hide in open
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can deploy anywhere on the battlefield

Descriptions To be uploaded...

[Myrddraal]

Short update:

I've had lots of people assuming that this mod will be based in the same time period as the books. I have explained that this is not possible because 'Travelling' could not be implemented and in the books Rand travels his armies around all the time.

To make up for this, I will make a series of historical battles or one historical campaign in which I hope to include all the major battles from the books, e.g. The Trolloc attack on the Two Rivers and the Siege of Cairhein.

I will start work on this as soon as I have made all the necessary units, though the graphics might not be as good as in the final version because I still need a skilled graphics designer. I know ur all busy making other mods but couldn't u spare a little time to make one bif? Please... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Sounds really, really cool.

[dessa14]

good to see a good well thought out fantasy mod.
METW doesn't look too promising. with only the few factions and originally was going to have gameplay like patritian.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Don't put down the guys working on METW

They're much better modders than me...

Remember that I'm still stuck on unit graphics so at this rate this mod may turn out as a disaster. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Hi, I'm glad to see your doing this - WoT really seems to fit well into Total War, and you really seem to have come up with some good stuff. The screenies look great. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

One or two things. (three actually)

You've said you can't implement travelling, but I've come up with an idea that might work, though it's not perfect. It would basically be like transporting you're armies by ship in the normal game.
First you set up a dummy sea region that is not shown on the map, but is connected to every province in the startpos files. Then you place a ship belonging to Rand's faction in it.
The only problem that I can see is that you would need a port in every province for it to work. You could, if necessary, give Rand a port building that cost's nothing and only takes a turn, or something, but you'd still have each province trying to show a port. I don't know enough about the lukmap files to know if there's a way around this, or even if the concept would work at all, but I thought I'd see what you think.

You put Grey(Gray) Men in as battlefield units for the shadow. I don't know if you're including these with a bit of artistic license, but in the books they don't really come across as warriors. I think they would work better as agents, as you said in you're original post.

You might already have thought of this, but you have'nt mentioned it that I've seen. You said somewhere that Whitecloaks would be like Order Knights. I was wondering if you were going to allow Whitecloaks to crusade. This would seem to fit much better with what they do in the books, rather than having them invading their neighbours.

I'd like to help with the bif files, but you did specify skilled http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif. I've never been an artist. My sole venture into the unit bifs has been to make a light sabre http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif .

Keep up the good work,
Schrodie's Cat.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 12 2004,15:23)] You put Grey(Gray) Men in as battlefield units for the shadow. I don't know if you're including these with a bit of artistic license, but in the books they don't really come across as warriors. I think they would work better as agents, as you said in you're original post.
Grey men will be availiable as an agent (really good assasin) or a battlefield unit. I suppose it is a bit of 'artistic licence', but the main reason I did it was that otherwise the Shadow won't have enough variation in the units. They will be like hashishim (sp?) in Medieval when used as a battle unit.


Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 12 2004,15:23)]You might already have thought of this, but you have'nt mentioned it that I've seen. You said somewhere that Whitecloaks would be like Order Knights. I was wondering if you were going to allow Whitecloaks to crusade. This would seem to fit much better with what they do in the books, rather than having them invading their neighbours.

The problem with this is that I would like to give the Whitecloaks Inquisitors (the Hand of the Light), and for this to work, the nations must be of the same religion so they wouldn't be able to crusade against anyone. Good idea though.

As for travelling, its the best reason I've had so far, but I'm not sure it will work, for Three reasons:

Firstly the less important reason: I'm not sure about making a different type of port which is faction specific? but this might work.

The second reason is that u would find emissaries and agents travelling about the place. They don't need ships, only ports.

And the third reason would be that u would be able to build ship yards in the middle of the continent, and u would also be able to build ships into this dummy region from any province. This would lead to all nations travelling.


Still its a good idea and I will give it a try, but later, after I've finished the era's before Rand arrives. I still think this is the time period with the most potential for a fun game.

If u want to help with the bifs then ur very welcome. Even if ur not very good any help would be appreciated.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Myrddraal]

Sorry, the server is down again, so no screens for a short while, I'll hopefully have them back up tomorrow
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]Firstly the less important reason: I'm not sure about making a different type of port which is faction specific? but this might work.


It's possible, verging on the easy, when you know how. In the build file, create a new building, and call it travelling ground or whatever. Under Building type Label, type PORT. Under Faction Association, enter the faction(s). Fill in the other fields as you like, and enter pictures in the info-pics and review-panel folders in campmap. Et voila. You can make it cost nothing, but it has to take at least 1 turn to build. The problem remains that the game will try and place a port icon. Shrugs.


Quote[/b] ]The second reason is that u would find emissaries and agents travelling about the place. They don't need ships, only ports.


True. Shrugs.


Quote[/b] ]And the third reason would be that u would be able to build ship yards in the middle of the continent, and u would also be able to build ships into this dummy region from any province. This would lead to all nations travelling.

There is a way around this, though it's not perfect. If you make building a proper port dependent on a new resource, coastline, in the Resources required ... in the building file, and then put that resource into all coastline provinces, then that should solve it. It would however show coastline as a resource. Shrugs.


Quote[/b] ]The problem with this is that I would like to give the Whitecloaks Inquisitors (the Hand of the Light), and for this to work, the nations must be of the same religion so they wouldn't be able to crusade against anyone.

I hadn't thought of that. Is it possible to make all the other factions permanently excommunicated? That would allow inquisitions and crusades.

I quite understand you wanting to get the other eras done first. One step at a time sounds good.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

I can't help with the units at the moment - exams http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif. If you still need help in a month, I'll give it a shot, but I'll make no guarantees as to the quality of my work.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif ,
Schro's Cat

[dessa14]

i just didn't like the way metw was going when i was part of the team.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 12 2004,17:50)]
Quote[/b] ]Firstly the less important reason: I'm not sure about making a different type of port which is faction specific? but this might work.


It's possible, verging on the easy, when you know how. In the build file, create a new building, and call it travelling ground or whatever. Under Building type Label, type PORT. Under Faction Association, enter the faction(s). Fill in the other fields as you like, and enter pictures in the info-pics and review-panel folders in campmap. Et voila. You can make it cost nothing, but it has to take at least 1 turn to build. The problem remains that the game will try and place a port icon. Shrugs.
I know about that but what I meant was that there will have to be two types of port, and one will be faction specific, but whats to stop them building the other type of port. I know the techinique of using a resource to make the other port only buildable on the coast, but then the problem of the coordinates of the port. There's only one set of these, and they determine which sea region you can board into. This would have to be connected to the actual sea region. The only way round this would be to make it so as u couldn't travel to regions next to the sea.

And of course there's the problem of the icon for ports would apear everywhere.

Still I said I will try, but not yet.

P.s. the images are working again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[The Witch-King]

Hmmm, here's an idea to do female rulers. You could put countries like Andor and the White Tower in a seperate culture group, and make sure that the leader portraits in that culture group are all women. This would ensure that the Amyrlin Seat and the Queen of Andor have proper portraits.

Oh, and the White tower as the Pope sound like a good idea.

[Myrddraal]

Hi Witch King, I've already thought about the female rulers. It is possible to associate special portraits to certain factions (if u have VI). This is what I came up with:


Quote[/b] ]Andor and the Sea folk only have women as their rulers:
Its in the books so I'm going to try and do it. A method I thought of would be to make the portraits for these factions rulers women, and give those factions unisex names. Unfortunately, heirs use the same images as generals, so they would have to be men and have a quick sex change when they ascend to the throne


I'm not sure about the White Tower and the Pope. I find the Pope so annoying that I think I'd rather do without a 'pope' figure.


A quick update: I have been recieving some requests to add more than 10 bifs to this game. This would mean overwriting the old game, whereas I was hoping to make this as an expansion. I would like to hear the oppinions of people in these forums to help me make my mind up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Lazul]

Hey

About religion and the Children of the Light... well they are of a diffrent religion, they are the only one that see the Ae'Sedai as something that is created by the shadow.
They are a bit like fundamentalistic christians.
They can havn a religion you can call servents of the Light
and all other factions can have servents of the Creator

... and then you can have your crusades http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] ]The problem with this is that I would like to give the Whitecloaks Inquisitors (the Hand of the Light), and for this to work, the nations must be of the same religion so they wouldn't be able to crusade against anyone.

You can't give them crusades and inquisitors.

Unless...

Schrodinger's Cat came up with this idea:


Quote[/b] ]I hadn't thought of that. Is it possible to make all the other factions permanently excommunicated? That would allow inquisitions and crusades.

I don't know how to do this though, if anyone does this would be a great addition to the game.

[NagatsukaShumi]

It isn't possible to make a faction excommunicated, the Pope has to do it when your playing, you can't pre set a faction to be excommunicated as it's not an actual religion.

After skim reading Lazuls topic I seem to get the impression that there is only two religions correct? Why don't you use the Viking Invasion faction for your MOD, it would mean there would only be two religions (Cathlic and Pagan) and you wouldn't be having a percentage of Jewish following in your MOD, just a though if your planning to only use two religions, like I said, I've not read the books so I can only offer actual modding advice not conceptual.

Hopefully thats some help.

Nag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Myrddraal]

NagatsukaShumi

Do you know if it is possible to make a faction emerge, like the mongols. If so can u give me some details. This would help this mod a lot.

Thx.

[NagatsukaShumi]

The appearance of the Mongols is actually a hardcoded event so its not possible to make such events unless you hacked the code. Making factions appear is actually not possible in MTW or VI.

Nag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Lazul]

Well is you use the same years as in orginal MTW you can have a faction emerging, you jsut replace all mongol units with Aiel and tadaa... Aiel is emerging out of nowhere.
But, then you have to sacrifice the correctness of the Years...

[Myrddraal]

Oh well its not a problem, I'll just make the Aiel war era start with the appearance of the Aiel in the Jangai Pass.

NagatsukaShumi you seem to have been working on team based modding projects for some time, you don't happen to know someone who's any good at graphics who would do the bif for Trollocs do u? I'm getting desperate here

[NagatsukaShumi]

My MODs are actually made by myself Myrddraal so I have no actual team. However I have worked on the METW team at one point, Duke John can make impressive graphics but I doubt he could be persuaded as he has very little time on his hands to dedicate yet more time to unit graphics. The easy option is to simply release the Trolloc's as some BIF from MTW such as aKnight or something and change their weapons and shields, unit graphic artists tend to attach themselves to projects which have been released, even in beta state (i.e. flip on HTW).

Nag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Myrddraal]

Ok I will do that NagatsukaShumi, thx for the advice.

It seems that my fist preview of this mod is going to be a historical battle: The battle for Emonds Field. If I can't do better the trollocs will look like tall men and for those who have read the books you will know just how stupid this is.

oh well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Lazul]

hehe, well yeah that will prob. look rather dumb http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

but, emonds field, that Two Rivers right? or am I just confused?

[Myrddraal]

Emonds field is the village which Rand, and co. come from. In the books the Two Rivers gets attacked by Trollocs and Perrin defends Emonds Field. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Lazul]

ah, well im reading the swedish books, the names are a bit screwed up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

By the way, how are things going? Ill go nuts if I cant play soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Myrddraal I was wondering if you would like to have any help on the technical side of your MOD? (Bar Unit Graphics and Campaign Lukmaps) I don't mind dedicating some time to helping yoiu develop your MOD.

Feel free to contact me on : samandshirley@splaxton.fsnet.co.uk

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ May 16 2004,09:57)]By the way, how are things going? Ill go nuts if I cant play soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Its nice to see a dedicated fan to the WoT http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But seriously, I've only just started this mod, things are still in their prelimiary stages. It'll still be quite a while before it's ready

NagatsukaShumi, thanks for the offer Any help is very welcome. Have u read the books, its not really a problem if you haven't, but I do recomend them.

When you say
Quote[/b] ]technical side do u mean unit_prod / build_prod and the startpos kind of stuff. I know a little about this area, enough to get along, but ur help would be very gratefully accepted

[dessa14]

have you got Gnome Editor?
you should if you don't it really makes prod files easy.
you know how in the text files the lines aren't lined up and stuff like that, in Gnome editor it is all like little boxes, you should also check out one of those startpos editors, even though i never use them, i prefer to manualy do the not map related stuff (i mean like neighbour info and such)
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Yes dessa14,

I do know what I'm doing, I have enough knowledge to do the stuff, its just when there's an error or something unusual that I get stuck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif


Anyone who has read the books, I would like ur oppinion on how the blight should look on the campmap. I am working on this now and at the moment, I have used the dark brown land texture from the campmap. Any ideas.

+

If anyone wants to write the unit description for Whitecloak Cavalry, feel free http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Lazul]

The Blight? hmmm, well i dont think a to dark and black thing would work... better to have dead-gray color if you know what a mean, with hills and so on. Also, if its possible, when you fight a battle in the blight that there is no or only dead trees.

hmm Whitecloak? you mean Children of the Light?

Well any way, I guess you mean the Children of the light so I wrote a description for them...


Whitecloak Heavy Cavalry

Fueld by an fanatical conviction that their couse is just
and right theese mounted warriors ignore all danger and charge
against all odds. On the battle field theese warriors are a true elite and the only downside is their numbers. They are hard to recruit (Spelling?) due to the bad reputation of the Children of the Light.
Their heavy armor and armored horses protect them against most weapons and they only need to fear a wall of pikes or the armorpiercing crossbows.
If the situation demands it theese warriors can dismount and fight just as good.

Very heavly armored
Eccelent moral
Very good attack
Irresiteble charge
Good Defence

well thats my try for a description http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[CrownOfSwords]

They are definately not heavily armored, they are depicted in the books as medium maybe heavy cavalary but I do not call have a breastplate and helm heavily armored. And there is nothing in the books about them being hard to recruit. And yes whitecloak and children of the light is the same thing.

Description should be something about them and their polished helmets and breastplates, how they see themselves as soldiers of the creator, how they find darkfiends everywhere and fear of another whitecloak war.

[CrownOfSwords]

Just as in the book dark brown and with many hill's/mountains= the blight. And btw keep up the good work myd http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif if you want when i get home after thursday ill work on descriptions.

[Myrddraal]

I will soon be uploading a screenshot of Tear and the surrounding area (on the campmap).

In the books, this area has a hotter than average climate, olive groves etc. so I have used the textures from meditaranian countries in the MTW campmap.

Haddon Mirk will be in this screen, but I am unsure of what trees to include in the campmap. At the moment, I have put meditaranian trees fading into normal trees with some pine scattered around. If anyone knows (and I don't mean how u imagined it, I mean if u are sure) what trees to include please post. Thx http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lazul]

CrownOfSwords I guess your right about the armor, but what i mean about hard to recruite is that most normal villigers hate the whitecloaks for their inquistiroial actions and there for avoids recruitments.
It was along time since I read the books I think I confused the armor-style of the whitecloaks with the borderland warriors. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Myrddraal, as for the Trollocks, you should give them almost cavalry speed as the can run really fast... you know, horselike legs and so on... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Myrddraal]

I think that I'll give them a half way kind of speed because Trollocs are lazy cowards at heart and only attack if they are sure of victory or more afraid of their commanders than their enemies. To represent this I have given them poor moral. If they are too fast, u'll never be able to run them down as they flee. But I mainly agree with u Lazul. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Being cowards they would probably not be quite so lazy when running for their lives. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
But I agree; I wouldn't think they could outrun a horse over short distances, but over long distances they are probably as fast or faster (same applies for Aiel), so the walk speeds should be pretty close.

As for the blight, it's difficult to say. The books never take us past the mountains into what seems to be the Blight proper, so we don't know if it's the same sickly trees etc, or something else. The world map in The World of ... has the Blight kind of purpley-yellow, which is sickly looking, but brown or gray would work as well. Basically anything that sets it out as ominous.
Btw, are you splitting the Blight inot lots of provinces, or just one, and will Thakandar be the only place to train Trollocs and Myrddraals?

Schrodie's Cat

[Lazul]

This mods just sounds better and better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

im looking forward to the screen of Tear. By the way is there any other units you need a description for? I would gladly help, and this i will read more about the armor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 18 2004,13:27)]Btw, are you splitting the Blight inot lots of provinces, or just one, and will Thakandar be the only place to train Trollocs and Myrddraals?
That was my intention Schrodinger's Cat,

The blight will be split into several very unproductive and very rebellious provinces. Thakandar will be basically the only place the Shadow can build any buildings.

I think the buildings needed to build trollocs will be:

Trolloc Cloisters (Taken from the World of the Wheel, Yes Female trollocs do exist and are cloistered for the 'production' of trollocs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif )

Forge (maybe?)

Fletcher (for Ahf'frait Trollocs)

I think the buildings needed to build Myrddraal will be:

Trolloc Cloisters (Because Myrddraal are freak offspring of trollocs, which is why they are sometimes linked to them)

Weaponsmith (upgraded Forge?)

Any ideas?

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ May 18 2004,14:23)]By the way is there any other units you need a description for? I would gladly help, and this i will read more about the armor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif
All the descriptions for the Shadow are done Lazul, but basically you can write descriptions for anything you like. Thanks for the offer of help

[Myrddraal]

NagatsukaShumi or anyone who knows, I think Paint Shop Pro generates a format of .tga which does not seem to work (truevision something or other) and I was wondering if you know of a program which will convert into a working format.

Thanks in advance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

What do you mean Myddraal? PSP7 works fine for me when I'm making TGA's for use in MTW, what exactally are you having problems with? Would this be the campaign map by any chance?

[Myrddraal]

Good guess, yes it is the campmap, but I can't find any other error. The only change I made was editing the textures for the campmap, and now it CTDs??

[Lazul]

As for the Trollocks, to produce them i guess you should need something like a Trollock Armory... sounds good, a place where they just take what ever junk they can put on those big guys and send out for war.

But I was just wondering, will the Shadow have any other elite units exept the Myrddraals?

[NagatsukaShumi]

I believe there is a problem with campaign maps and PSP7, I myself don't know what it is but I'm sure if you look in one the Campaign Map guides in The Repository you should find out what the problem is, however don't disown PSP7 for TGA's as it is only the campaign map you may experience problems with, everything else works fine.

[Myrddraal]

Thx NagatsukaShumi

I'll see if I can find another program which it works with. Do you know of any? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Not myself but I'm sure there will be a link to one somewhere the campaign map threads.

[Lazul]

Damn, its hard to find any special units to write about... is there anyone here that knows of a good webpage or a book that holds good info about the armys of randland?

well here is a try for those fanatics following a false dragon.

Followers of a Dragon

Theese are poor or confused men. They do not see the madness in the false dragon and in the fear of being against the might of the tainted man calling himself The Dragon, they rather join his ranks. Another reason is the looting, and the possibility to acctualy eat more then once per day, which is a luxuary that few have.

[Myrddraal]

How about the Companions of Illian Lazul

I should have that screen of Tear up by the end of the day.

Thx for the help NagatsukaShumi I have a friend who has photoshop, will that work?

[NagatsukaShumi]

It may do, you could always check it out.

Nag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Myrddraal]

A preview of the nation of...

Tear

The crescents of tear:
http://www.fictionalworlds.com/FICWRLDS/WheelofTime/flags/tear.gif
Flag from fictionalworlds.com

Tairen special units:

http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Defenders of the Stone
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Tairen Horsemen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Tairen Light Lancers
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Tairen Horse Archers
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Dismounted Defenders

Other non-faction specific units:

http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Mounted nobles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Mounted Seargents
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif House Armsmen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Royal Armsmen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Pikemen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Armoured Pikemen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Billmen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Speamen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Armoured Spearmen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Town Militia
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Archers
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Crossbowmen
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Peasants

The land of Tear:

The place names are only for readers of the series to know where this image is, they are no indication of province size or location
http://82.68.81.227/david/Tear.jpg

The leader of Tear is a High Lord, and all people with titles are also called High Lord to try and represent the fact that Tear is not run by one ruler. Also if possible the leader will be elected like in the HRE.

The Plains of Maredo will give a valour bonus to all horse units built there as this is where ‘Finest Tairen Stock’ is bred.

The main tradable good will be olive oil.

The city of Tear has a large income to represent river trade with Cairhein.

[Myrddraal]

For those of u who want to know how much progress there has been on the campmap, here is a scaled down version of the entire campmap for u to see how much I have done:

http://82.68.81.227/david/MapTex2.jpg

[Lazul]

I wrote down some descritions a few hours ago... take a look and say what you think. maybe some of theese are to long but they can easly be shortened

*Mounted nobles
As a tradion the nobles of every nation is trained not only how to rule lesser people but also in how do defeat enemys on the battlefield. Using good horses and well made weapons theese mounted nobles are usually the elite of a standard army. Armed with lances and long swords they can be deadly if used right. To be more mobile they are not to heavly armored. Being a bit over confident they tend to charge when they fell like it, not when the general feels like it

*Mounted Seargents
Theese men that usually supports the nobles in a battle
are either not nobles at all or nobles of a rather low rank
that is trying to climb the social ladder by proving their
worth in battle. Carrying with them to battle lances and
swords they are a cavalry unit to count on.

*House Armsmen
Boosted by the thought that they defend and fight for
the grandest of houses theese men fight with both
bravery and skill as much time is but aside for them
to train. Armed with well made swords and shields they
can easly brake any standard infantry formations but will
have a hard time defending themselfs against cavalry.

*Royal Armsmen
Instead as fighting for a certain house theese men fight
for th glory of the king and queen. Well armored and well
equiped theese men fight with just as good skill as the
houses Armsmen if not even better due to the fact that they
are trained by the finest to be the finest in the country.

*Pikemen
On a battlefield it can for the generall be good to have units that almost cant be beaten by cavalry or weaker infantry. Theese pikemen is such a unit. Standing tightly packed with all pikes lined of like a wall this is the perfect defensive formation, execpt for one thing, the bow and crossbow. Due to the fact that theese men stand so close to each other, the archer dont even have to aim to put a pikeman to death.

*Armoured Pikemen
Just as the normal pikemen theese men are experts at defending or slow offensive moves. But with the heavy armor they are better protected not only from the infantry and cavalry that comes to close but also from the archer crosswbowman.

*Billmen
If the pikemen is the perfect weapon to defend against cavalry the billmen is the perfect weapon to attack cavalry. Using polearm wepons with hooks and big axelike blades theese men can easly pull a rider to the ground and finish him of with ease.

*Speamen
The Spearmen are the most standard unit on the battlefield.
They are easly trained and not to hard to equipe. They can
easly hold of cavalry and can stand their ground against
most infantry as long as they get supported by other units.
The downside of theese men is their moral and lack of
fighting spirit, wich is due to the fact that theese men are
usually forced to fight against their will.

*Peasants
Well them speaks for itself, theese are no more then peasants that are forced in to service under a generall and
there is little doubt that they will fight well, unless they are sure to win. Their weapons usually consists of pickforks and other farmtools but after a battle they tend to be experts at looting the dead for better armor and weapons.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Myrddraal]

Great descriptions Lazul I'll iron out the spelling and grammatical errors for u.

I may edit these descriptions before using them though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

What do u think of Haddon Mirk on the Tear screen, I am a little worried as to whether I have used the right trees for this. What do u think?

[Lazul]

Hello... so liked them? nice, well yeah Im no master of spelling in english your welcome to fix that.

I really liked the map, I really have no complains http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

I will probably make some more descriptions tomorrow.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Lazul]

haha, I just took a look at my spelling... crap, thats not good... next time I will read through them before posting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Myrddraal]

Two questions for more experienced modders:

1. How do u edit the loyalty of provinces?

2. Is it possible to make faction leader elected like HRE, if so, how?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lazul]

hmmm... never modded before... but cant you simply use the HRE and just change them in to Tear? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

If you want to have a faction have an elected leader you can use either the HRE or the Papacy. I suggest you use the Viking Factions as your factions along with the HRe (it is possible to do) then you get rid of the annoyance of the Pope.

I don't know whether you can edit the loyalty of a province however you can edit the chance of revolt which I guess is linked to loyalty.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ May 21 2004,11:07)]I don't know whether you can edit the loyalty of a province however you can edit the chance of revolt which I guess is linked to loyalty.
Thats what I meant, I just don't know how to do it.

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 20 2004,04:42)]The main tradable good will be olive oil.

The city of Tear has a large income to represent river trade with Cairhein.
just a suggestion but shouldnt one of the main tradable goods be fish - seein as it has a large population of fisherman

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 18 2004,07:27)]As for the blight, it's difficult to say. The books never take us past the mountains into what seems to be the Blight proper,
The eye of the world takes them right into the blight

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 11 2004,02:32)]Grey men
Unit size: 10
Weapons: Bows/swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can hide in open
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can deploy anywhere on the battlefield

Descriptions To be uploaded...
Would it be better to make greymen the assasin unit for the dark side - as they were never actually mentioned as fighting in battles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 21 2004,08:41)]
Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ May 21 2004,11:07)]I don't know whether you can edit the loyalty of a province however you can edit the chance of revolt which I guess is linked to loyalty.
Thats what I meant, I just don't know how to do it.
startpos file - province attributes

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 11 2004,13:44)]Short update:

I've had lots of people assuming that this mod will be based in the same time period as the books. I have explained that this is not possible because 'Travelling' could not be implemented and in the books Rand travels his armies around all the time.

To make up for this, I will make a series of historical battles or one historical campaign in which I hope to include all the major battles from the books, e.g. The Trolloc attack on the Two Rivers and the Siege of Cairhein.

I will start work on this as soon as I have made all the necessary units, though the graphics might not be as good as in the final version because I still need a skilled graphics designer. I know ur all busy making other mods but couldn't u spare a little time to make one bif? Please... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Why not make the campaign start right at the start - not at the start of the series i mean going right back to.... oh man its been that long since i read it - the nation that is where the two rivers is now - and all the other really cool nations from then - the flashabcks that mat has describe some really awesome battles and some cool elite units....just a suyggeestion

Im really into this mod - just found it

[dessa14]

yeah i think we can see that, by how you have posted the last five posts.

hey guys if you need a dev forum, i can set you up a couple of boards at the {Lore} clan forum. i would have to ask my co admin, but im sure he would be cool with it.

thanks, dessa

post back if you are interested
whatever you try to do, DON'T Email me.
i'll probably lose the email in my anti virus, spy/adware crusade.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]The eye of the world takes them right into the blight

...but not past the mountains. Moiraine says that the Eye moves around, but is never south of the mountains. That's why I think that the majority of the Blight is north of the mountains. When they find the Eye, though, it is south of the mountains, so they never actually go any further north. Hence we don't know if it's different.


Quote[/b] ]just a suggestion but shouldnt one of the main tradable goods be fish - seein as it has a large population of fisherman

Seems reasonable to have both - I don't know what Myrddraal has planned.


Quote[/b] ]Would it be better to make greymen the assasin unit for the dark side - as they were never actually mentioned as fighting in battles

Myrddraal clarified this in an earlier post. Grey Men are going to be assassins as well as battlefield units, to give the Shadow a bit of tactical variety.


Quote[/b] ]Why not make the campaign start right at the start

But there are no beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ May 22 2004,12:38)]hey guys if you need a dev forum, i can set you up a couple of boards at the {Lore} clan forum. i would have to ask my co admin, but im sure he would be cool with it.
Thx Dessa,

It would be quite good to have a forum, and I'm all for it. Thx. But I'm not sure its neccessary, everyone seems to get on fine posting here. It would be appreciated, but if it's in the slightest way inconvienent don't bother.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ May 22 2004,12:10)]Why not make the campaign start right at the start - not at the start of the series i mean going right back to.... oh man its been that long since i read it - the nation that is where the two rivers is now - and all the other really cool nations from then - the flashabcks that mat has describe some really awesome battles and some cool elite units....just a suyggeestion

Im really into this mod - just found it
Its a good idea shand, why not? I'm going to finish this era first, whatever happens, and that will still take a while, but after that, who knows. There are endless possibilites. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

It's good to see someone new interested in this mod, it makes it seem all the more worth it. If u want to help in the development, ur very welcome. That goes for everyone as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

As for the Grey Men, as I already said and as Schrodinger's Cat also said, they are both assasins, and units, a bit like hashishin (sp?) in the normal game. This is to add a bit of variety to the shadows units.


Quote[/b] ]Can deploy anywhere on the battlefield, [ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif , It seems thats impossible, I'll edit that out of that post.

Of course I'll have fish as a tradable good, but the olive groves are mentioned as quite important in the books also.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 22 2004,13:19)]
Quote[/b] ]The eye of the world takes them right into the blight

...but not past the mountains.
I just thought, doesn't Rand have a dream where he is being chased accross the blasted lands and he sees Thrakandar?? If someone could find a quote of this, it might have a description of the blight proper...

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 22 2004,12:03)]
Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 22 2004,13:19)]
Quote[/b] ]The eye of the world takes them right into the blight

...but not past the mountains.
I just thought, doesn't Rand have a dream where he is being chased accross the blasted lands and he sees Thrakandar?? If someone could find a quote of this, it might have a description of the blight proper...
True - and there are also a number of times where we see thakandar at the start of the books - once when that huge Myrdraal(cant remember its name) is intoduced

if u need any help just let me know - im pretty busy with the NTW mod though, but will no doubt help wheneva i can

BTW i remembered the name of the nation now - Manatheran(did i spell it right?)

cant wait to see my Sheinarian cavalry runnin down trollocs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[dessa14]

i got you a couple of dev boards at this address. http://totalrome.com/loreboard/index.php
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Here it is, Rands Dream:


Quote[/b] ]Rand's heart pounded as he ran, and he stared in dismay at the barren hills surrounding him. This was not just a place where spring was late in coming; spring had never come here, and never would come. Nothing grew in the cold soil that crunched under his boots, not so much as a bit of lichen. He scrambled past boulders, twiche as tall as he was; dust coated the stone as if never a drop of rain had touched it. The sun was a swollen, blood-red ball, more fiery than on the hottest day of summer and bright enough to sear his eyes, but it stood stark against a leaden cauldron of a sky where clouds of sharp black and silver roiled and boiled on every horizon. For all the swirling clouds, though, no breath of breeze stirred across the land, and despite the sullen sun the air burned cold like the depths of winter.
Rand looked over his shoulder often as he ran, but he could not see his pursuer. Only desolate hills and jagged black mountains, many topped by tall plumes of dark smoke rising to join the milling clouds. If he could not see his hunters, though he could hear them, howling behind him, guttural voices shouting with the glee of the chase, howling with the joy of blood to come. Trollocs. Coming closer, and his stength was almost gone.

It seems the edge of the blight is corrupted, the trees rot as they grow etc. etc, but once you get into the heart of the blasted lands, its just wasteland. Well, I'll try and represent that on the campmap.

[Lazul]

I guess thats right, Its the blight I think is like a desert when it grows(only worse), where it spreading it kills of all vegitation and after a while as the trees are gone, no more trees will Ever grow in the same place, and so the blight expands... and so on...

Also, the Shadows armys, who will command them? As the computer most likley will onlt build a shitload of Trollocks and so on, the Trollocks will be generals, but is it possible to make it so that the Trollocks cant have any stars when they are in command and so that the Myrrdraals is likley to have alot of stars and allways be offensive in nature?

[CrownOfSwords]

Good idea, is that possible though making a type of unit bad commanders and another good commanders? It would be a great effect to kill the commander mydraal and see all the trollocs run for their lives from the battle like the cowards they are.

[dessa14]

im sorry if the modders can't access the development pages immediately, but it takes me a while to add you to the Wot modders group.

thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

In the gnome editor, there is a column in which u can say whether a type of unit is prefered as a commander. This means that if the shadow builds Myrddraal, they will be more likely to have stars and become commanders of the army.

[Lazul]

ah, well thats nice... cus we dont want the Trollocks to turn in to smartass generalls http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

One question, in this mod will the Seanchan be a faction? I was just thinking... well the Seanchan dont have any contact with the rest of the world untill Rand-Time do they?
I mean nobody really knew about them untill they turned up on the western shores... or am I forgetting something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ May 24 2004,08:51)]One question, in this mod will the Seanchan be a faction? I was just thinking... well the Seanchan dont have any contact with the rest of the world untill Rand-Time do they?
I mean nobody really knew about them untill they turned up on the western shores... or am I forgetting something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif
That right, so no. Not unless someone, (maybe me?) makes an expansion including Rand Era.

[Lazul]

ah ok... well how will you fix the travel issue? In my oppinion you could just ignore that and go for normal walking. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

any ways, I havent been able to fix any description cus im all cought up with school... have to an essay about my home town in the years 1681-1686... rather dull really... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[CrownOfSwords]

That is what I was thinking Lazul, Rand moved most of his troops by foot anyway it was only small armies which he took traveling. Plus it would be so goddarn fun to play the Seachan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and what do you have done so far? Give your fans a bit of info http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Lazul]

What I have done so far? well by lucifer and some other chaps I hope you not refering to my essay on my hometown? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

well if you look through the this thread I have posted a few unit descrition, well... crappy spelling but I guess you can make out what Im trying to say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[shand994]

I remember Rand moving his armies around a lot using travelling in the alter books - maybe im mistaken - its been a while since i read them

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (CrownOfSwords @ May 24 2004,20:15)]That is what I was thinking Lazul, Rand moved most of his troops by foot anyway it was only small armies which he took traveling.
So ur telling me that taking Illian is moving a small army, what about the war against the Seachan, they travel everywhere.

I have been persuaded to make this mod no longer as an expansion for the game, but to replace the game. This is so that there will be more bifs availiable, and also to make it a little easier on me.

As for progress. The campmap provinces are finished, they all link up though I would like to re-do some of them. Once I've done this, theres the province attributes etc. And then the nations... The list goes on. If anyone wants to help with any part, feel free http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lazul]

To make this mod more intresting, make sure that the provinces that have high income is the onces that hold major cities like Tear and so on. So the war will be more about the economic centers and not the countryside.

Anyway, how is it going with the Trollocks? I mean animation and so on?

[CrownOfSwords]

You might want to check that out again, lol Rand marched his 200,000+ Aiel and the Cairhenin, Andoran and Tear troops, the only men he traveled were his Saldaens and if I remember correctly a few thousand Legionaires. By comparison, since we cannot achieve an army of 200k in MTW, by fraction that is a very small part of his entire army, and his war on the Seachan never used more than 5,000 men as it says in the books. I still think it would be enjoyable to make the campaign and forget about traveling. Anxiously await news -COS

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ May 25 2004,19:59)]Anyway, how is it going with the Trollocks? I mean animation and so on?
Its not... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I'm no good at unit graphics. Dessa has got this mod some excellent new dev forums, where the developers of the mod can post to each other...

But I'm the only developer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Its a lot of work for one person. A little help on the unit graphics side would be much appreciated.


P.S. after much thought, some people, including those on this forum. Have changed my mind on one point. Making this mod an expasion. Its true that I'm going to need more than 10 new bifs, so I have begun making the campmap as a replacement for the game. If u have some free disk space this shouldn't be a problem. U just have two installations, one for normal game, and one for WOT.

What I'm doing at the moment is re-working the provinces. I don't think I put enough in, and some of them just look wrong.

I have now finished the graphics for the campmap south of the borderlands apart from the spine of the world. I will update screenshots on request, u tell me what u want to see.

As for Rand-Era, I'll give it a go, but not until I've finished this era.

[Myrddraal]

With 111 replies, does this thread deserve some sticky? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Lazul]

well to bad i suck at animations, otherwise i would gladly help ye out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

anyway, Is there anything i can help with just say so... im gonna go play some soccer now but after that i maight do some unit descriptions

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]I will update screenshots on request, u tell me what u want to see.

I'd like to see the Two Rivers, if it's a vote.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 27 2004,15:18)]
Quote[/b] ]I will update screenshots on request, u tell me what u want to see.

I'd like to see the Two Rivers, if it's a vote.

Schrodie's Cat
OK,

I can't upload them just yet, but I should have it up within a day or two. I guess that will mean revealing my mountain graphics, I hope u like them...


In the meantime, heres some reading to keep u occupied
Heres a Short Essay I wrote earlier:


Making the AI work for WoT-TW.

The problems

1. Certain nations have 'traditional' enemies, e.g. Tear vs. Illian, Andor vs. Cairhien, Altara vs. Amadicia (The Whitecloak War) etc.

2. Certain nations have 'traditional' allies, e.g. the Borderlanders.

3. The Sea Folk are the main sea faring nation, but other nations must be able to build ships without being crushed by them. Also the Sea Folk don't have a proper army so their islands are vulnerable to anyone with a decent fleet

4. And of course, the Dark One and the Shadow are enemies of all and shouln't ally with anyone.


The Solutions

1&2. Problems 1 and 2 are really part of the same problem and I have thought of this as a possible solution:

The method I thought of for making these alliances/hatreds work is by 'guiding' the AI to attack certain provinces and leave others alone. For example you would 'guide' Illian to attack Tear etc.
This is how I thought it would be possible. The AI uses (amongst other things) the income of provinces to decide whether to attack. The idea is that I could make a 'path' of provinces with slightly higher incomes than the surrouding rebel provinces. The AI would naturally prefer to attack the provinces with higher incomes (and maybe less defenders), and so would be 'led' along towards another nations provinces. For example, in the case of Tear and Illian, the Plains of Maredo would be rebel, and would have higher income and less troops in it than Haddon Mirk. Therefore, Tear would be more encouraged to attack west, towards Illian, than north, towards Andor and Cairhien.
Also, the opposite would be true. The Black Hills and provinces south of the borderlands would have lower incomes than the provinces on the edge of the Blight, so the Borderlanders would discouraged from spreading too far south.


3. The Sea Folk have nearly no army so their islands are very vulnerable if an enemy fleet reaches them. Because of this, they need a very large fleet to protect them. You may think this is not a problem, and at first glance it is not, but if I give the Sea Folk too many ships, other nations will not be able to build ships without them being destroyed by the Sea Folk.
I thought that this might be a solution: All Sea Folk ships will be deep sea ships whereas other nations will only start with costal ships. This will mean that although the Sea Folk will not have a proper army, other nations will not be able to get to islands such as Tremalking and Aile Dashar let alone attack them.

4. It is essential that the Dark One does not ally with anyone so:
i. Emissaries will be faction specific and the Shadow will not be able to build them. This stops the shadow sending
emissaries to other nations, but not other nations sending emmissaries to them.
ii. The Shadow's leader (Naeblis?) will be placed in a 'dummy' province, with no way in or out. Emissaries will not be able
to reach him there.

BUT. This will mean that the Shadow cannot be illiminated, but you can still take all of their provinces. I suppose its appropriate in
a way...

[Schrodinger's Cat]

For 1, 2 & 3, in addition to the measures you've suggested, the AI behaviour influences should help a bit. For instance, if you make the Shadow aggressive and the borderlands defensive, then the chances are the Shadow will spend most of the time at war with all the borderlands, and if the bordderlands are already at war, as well as being defensive, then they probably won't go to war with each other.
Also, if you make the Sea Folk DEFENSIVE_TRADER or ISOLATIONIST_TRADER (if it's possibly to join those particular ones up like that), then they'll be less likely to attack other ships. We all know that Sicily (NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST) loves to attack shipping, but I haven't noticed Italy (TRADER) do it as much.
One more thought. I've never seen a game where France and England didn't immediately go to war, yet there doesn't seem to be any reason for this in the behaviour settings (except that France are expansionist, but they tend to go after Engalnd before HRE or Spain). It strikes me that maybe, just maybe, this is hardcoded. It's not likely, but it might be worth setting Tear and Illian as France and England just to see.
Your solution to 4 seems pretty much ideal. Anyway, don't worry too much. There's only so much accuracy you can get. after all, if I'm playing as Saldaea, I'm not going to spend the whole campaign defending the Blight border, so why should the AI. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Schrodie's Cat

[shand994]

4. And of course, the Dark One and the Shadow are enemies of all and shouln't ally with anyone.

Not so - what if u have a leader who is a Dark Friend I believe the White Cloaks are even lead by a dark friend
(not sure on where that went I gave up on the books at Winters Heart, RJ pisses me off now)

I disagree a lot that the shadow shouldnt be allowed to build emmissaries - that is their main weapon outside of the blight. Darkfriends, assasin type units. That is what theyre all about bringing down nations by gettin them into situations where other nations go to war with them

A better idea i think would be to make teh White Tower the Pope factions - all other nations, Tear, Illian, ANdor etc catholic, taht way they need to follow the WHite Towers lead. If a nation allies with the shadow then the White Tower Excommunicates them - and other nations can launch crusades(prolly come up with a different anme for it) against nations allied to the shadow

You could have a few different levels of emmisaries/agents for the shadow -

Darkfriends - Like priests they convert a small % of faction population to the shadow - and can also be poor assasins

not sure what other names u could use for higher levels - but you could have a few and the higher up the ladder you go their persuasive skills go up until you get to the level of

Forsaken - these have a huge level of persuasiveness and can turn a province very easily - highly skilled assasins

Then you could also give the White Cloaks Inquistadors to hunt down nations/leaders that are consorting with darkfriends etc

just my two cents http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

also if u need help with anythin let me know ill try n find time to help out - i wouldnt mind doing some army lists etc and i can do unit_icons etc and any loc file editing and unit_prod stuff - but itll have to fit in between work and my work on the NTW mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 27 2004,13:16)]
Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 27 2004,15:18)]
Quote[/b] ]I will update screenshots on request, u tell me what u want to see.


OK,



ii. The Shadow's leader (Naeblis?) will be placed in a 'dummy' province, with no way in or out. Emissaries will not be able
to reach him there.

BUT. This will mean that the Shadow cannot be illiminated, but you can still take all of their provinces. I suppose its appropriate in
a way...
This is a good idea - as the shadow never dies

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]I disagree a lot that the shadow shouldnt be allowed to build emmissaries - that is their main weapon outside of the blight. Darkfriends, assasin type units. That is what theyre all about bringing down nations by gettin them into situations where other nations go to war with them


I agree with Myrddraal that the Shadow shouldn't have alliances. It's true that some leaders could be darkfriends, but they wouldn't publicly acknowledge the fact. Any effect they might have would be amply reflected in the AI's random attacking of other countries. Besides, it would be especially ridiculous if The Borderlands were to ally with the Shadow. Any Borderland monarch who did such a thing would probably be executed by the first man, woman or child he/she came across.
I believe Myrddraal is going to give the Shadow Darkfriends (Spies?) and Grey Men as assassins.

@Myrddraal, just a thought. If you have the Shadow leader in a dummy province, will the AI bankrupt itself by building up buildings and armies in that province? Also, you're going to need to give him a lot of heirs to ensure the faction doesn't die out, and then reappear somewhere in the Blight, so I guess you'd better give the Shadow a King's unit with no support costs.

Schrodie's Cat

[dessa14]

but the problem is how can you do this.
im pretty sure you can't make it so people won't ally with the shadow.
heres a medium solution.
make them muslim (no princesses) eliminate emissaries (they can't organise alliances, but at the sacrifice of the other emissary abilities. you'll just have to disband troops to remove titles. and you can't bribe armies) to prevent others from allying, just set all their generals and kings at a very low influence, etc etc rating.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ May 28 2004,13:39)]to prevent others from allying, just set all their generals and kings at a very low influence, etc etc rating.
thanks, dessa
That won't be neccessary dessa, if my other idea works:


Quote[/b] ]ii. The Shadow's leader (Naeblis?) will be placed in a 'dummy' province, with no way in or out. Emissaries will not be able to reach him there.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ May 28 2004,00:37)]For 1, 2 & 3, in addition to the measures you've suggested, the AI behaviour influences should help a bit.
Of course, the other ideas were in adittion to that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ May 28 2004,11:57)]I disagree a lot that the shadow shouldnt be allowed to build emmissaries - that is their main weapon outside of the blight. Darkfriends, assasin type units.
When I say emissaries, I mean emissaries, not assasins and spies etc.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (shand994 @ May 28 2004,11:57)]also if u need help with anythin let me know ill try n find time to help out - i wouldnt mind doing some army lists etc and i can do unit_icons etc and any loc file editing and unit_prod stuff - but itll have to fit in between work and my work on the NTW mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
That would be much appreciated. I've done very little work on the unit lists (I've added Two Rivers Longbowmen and Dha'vol Trollocs), although I have loads of ideas for the units to be added.

As for the Forsaken they won't be agents I don't think.

[Myrddraal]

Here are some info_pics I made by editing existing images:
(For those who don't know, green becomes transparent so what you will see there is parchment)

Taraboner Infantry:
http://82.68.81.227/david/TarabonerInfantry.JPG

Taraboner Lancers:
http://82.68.81.227/david/TarabonerLancer.JPG

And...
As requested, the Two Rivers in Andor, as seen from in game:
(please ignore the 'radar' screen in the top left hand corner, this is far from the finished product)
http://82.68.81.227/david/TwoRivers.JPG

[Julius Caesar]

Great job on the campaign map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Lazul]

wow... campmap looks really good nice work Myrddraal

[Myrddraal]

More screenshots of the campmap will be updated on request. Ask for anything south of the borderlands apart from the spine of the world, and it will be revealed.

Thx for the support http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[CrownOfSwords]

Can we see the waste?

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (CrownOfSwords @ May 31 2004,22:17)]Can we see the waste?
As I said:


Quote[/b] ]Ask for anything south of the borderlands apart from the spine of the world, and it will be revealed.


Sorry CrownOfSwords, the only part of the Waste which is done is Shayul Ghul. As soon as it is finished I will upload a pic of it though.

In the meantime, its time to call upon the help of other modders again. I have placed these factions on the campmap:

Tear
Andor
Sadea
Kandor
Shienar
Arad Doman
Tar Valon
The Shadow
Cairhein

At the moment they are all Catholic apart from The Shadow which is pagan, and are all on Catholic_Defensive except the Shadow which is on Barbarian_Raider.

I can play as any faction, but when I play as the Shadow, the game CDTs as soon as I load it with no error messages. Whilst playing as other factions the Shadow seems to work fine though. Any idea as to why this might happen.


I have also chosen faction colours based on the faction flags here they are:

//Tear (Gold, Red) Banner=Three white crescent moons slanting acros a field half red, half gold
SetFactionCol:: FN_GERMAN_HRE 255 215 55 255 0 0
//Andor (Bright Red, White) Banner=White lion on field of bright red
SetFactionCol:: FN_01 255 0 0 255 255 255
//Saldea (Dark Blue, Grey) Banner=Three silver fish on a field of dark blue
SetFactionCol:: FN_02 0 0 110 202 202 202
//Kandor (Pale Green, Red) Banner=A rearing red horse on a field of pale green
SetFactionCol:: FN_03 175 255 95 255 0 0
//Shienar (Blue, White) Banner=Swooping Black Hawk on field of three blue and two white horizontal stripes
SetFactionCol:: FN_04 0 0 255 255 255 255
//Arad Doman (Dark Green, Blue) Banner=Asliver hand grasping a silver sword by the blade, point down, on a field of four green and three blue horizontal stripes
SetFactionCol:: FN_05 0 85 0 0 0 255
//Tar Valon (Cream, White) Banner=Flame of Tar Valon centered in a spiral of seven colours (from top centre: Blue, Green, White, Gray, Yellow, Red)
SetFactionCol:: FN_06 255 250 165 255 255 255
//The Shadow (Black, Black) Banner=? (A raven?)
SetFactionCol:: FN_07 0 0 0 0 0 0
//Cairhein (Light Blue, Yellow) Banner=A many rayed golden sun rising on a field of blue
SetFactionCol:: FN_08 150 190 255 255 215 55

Just put them into paint to see the colours. I think that the green for Kandor is too luminous. I will change this.

PS. I will put a copy of my question in the alchemists lab.

[CrownOfSwords]

blah i read ask for anything and just skipped ahead hahaha sorry, hows progress?

[Myrddraal]

Progress is slow but steady... until I ran into the problem above. I'm still working on fixing it, I think it might have something to do with pre-battle shields because when playing as Shienar, I attacked the Shadow, and the game CTD'd.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

If anyone wants to help, if someone could find and put up a list of ships for the Sea Folk, this would help a bit.

PS. Remember to keep asking around for help with unit graphics. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Hi, the screenies look great. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Found this on the Sea Folk ships, taken from here (http://drosi.tuts.nu/wot/wt_seafo.htm#SHIPS):


Quote[/b] ]Darter -- tiny ship ?


Soarer -- a small sleek Sea Folk ship, with two masts raked back sharply and spars laid across them squarely. (7.533)


Raker -- a larger Sea Folk ship (easily a hundred paces long), with three towering masts amidships, and one shorter one on the raised sterndeck. It has a very narrow body. (similar to a giant splinter.) ...the fastes ship in the world. (4.307, 309, 335)



Quote[/b] ]To sail from Tear to Tanchico aboard a Sea Folk Raker takes 7-10 days, the next fastest would take about 15 days, most ships would take more tahn 20 days, and a coasting craft could take up to 100. (4.335-336)


So I suppose rakers would be twice as fast as any other ship, and the next fastest would be soarers, maybe darters, and the fastest non-Sea Folk ships. I haven't got the books handy to look up the references. I don't know about battle capabilities.

Schrodie's Cat.

[Myrddraal]

I think that sea folk ships would be very good in combat, remember Windfinders have no three oaths, and every Sea Folk ship, however big or small has a windfinder on board.

Isn't 'Greatship' also a type of ship or am I imagining things?

[Myrddraal]

The problem with the factions is solved

It was the province attributes, though I'm not quite sure which part, I just replace the whole lot and the game worked.

Many thx go to tombom for setting me on the right track http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

That's good news. It sounds like it's coming along nicely.

I don't recall a Greatship, but you might be right. As for windfinders, remember that not all of them can channel, and they probably wouldn't want to channel in front of mainlanders, if there was any possibility of survivors returning home and spreading rumours about Sea Folk magicians.
I think their main defense would be there speed, and they probably wouldn't seek battles. It's true that Coine and Jorin managed to repulse a Seanchan ship, but even then it wasn't a victory; Joine set the ship on fire and they sailed away as fast as possible.
So anyway, I don't think the Sea Folk should be too powerful.

Schrodie's Cat.

[Myrddraal]

But they should definately be masters of the seas, most trade should be done through them. From the website u linked to:


Quote[/b] ]Most Seaborne trade is carried by Sea Folk ships. (7.679)



Small preview:

I have not yet implemented the methods for stopping people allying to the shadow, and I decide to try playing as them. I swept aside all four borderland nations without pause, and suddenly everyone wanted to ally to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devil.gif. I wonder why.

Maybe I should make it a little harder for the Shadow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Myrddraal]

Does anyone know what the limit is on Viking factions.

I'm up to FN_12 and it seems to work fine, where do I stop??

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ June 03 2004,20:41)]But they should definately be masters of the seas, most trade should be done through them.
True, but their dominance should be based on speed and numbers, rather than combat power.


Quote[/b] ]Maybe I should make it a little harder for the Shadow

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif We don't want the whole map turning a horrible black colour. Does this mean you've added more units? I was just thinking about trollocs (maybe that's a bit weird http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and I don't think they should increase valour as quickly as other troops. After all, when most soldiers kill another soldier, that represents to some extent a gain in experience and skill, whereas for a trolloc it just represents a good supper. I can't really imagine a veteran trolloc. I don't know if you've thought of doing this, but I think giving trollocs a high honour step value would be good, preventing really high honour trollocs, and it would also help make it a bit harder for the shadow.

Schrodie's Cat

[NagatsukaShumi]

From experience, I do not think there is a limit of FN_XX factions.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ June 03 2004,23:13)]Does this mean you've added more units? I was just thinking about trollocs (maybe that's a bit weird http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and I don't think they should increase valour as quickly as other troops. After all, when most soldiers kill another soldier, that represents to some extent a gain in experience and skill, whereas for a trolloc it just represents a good supper. I can't really imagine a veteran trolloc.
I think I said it before, but I haven't done much work on the units, I just want to get all the factions and the campmap working first. I've only added two new units. Two Rivers Longbowmen, and Dha'Vol Trollocs. At the moment there are no new graphics for the Trollocs, they just look like abnormally large men.

All this will be done in time and if anyone wants to help ur very welcom (as I've said many times)

PS. what is it with RJ's obbsession with Red White and Blue, there are so many factions with one of these as their primary colour. At the moment, Saldea is Dark Blue, Shienar and Altara are normal blue and Cairhein is light blue. Tarabon and Kandor and Andor all have red and white as their faction colours.

I'll find a way, don't worry.

Also, I think that the Shadow's pieces on the campmap should be Myrddraal, not men, if anyone knows of some images I could use...


NagatsukaShumi, I saw somewhere in the Startpos files that the limit of factions is 32, is this so. (I won't be using that many anyway, I'm just curious)

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]I think I said it before, but I haven't done much work on the units, I just want to get all the factions and the campmap working first.

Yes, sorry you had said it before. I was just wondering, as you were playing it, if you had added some more units or were just using mainly the original MTW units.


Quote[/b] ]what is it with RJ's obbsession with Red White and Blue

Heh, I think it's probably the same as all Americans' obsession with red, white and blue. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (no offence to any Americans)
In fairness to RJ, there are a great many real world countries with red and/or white and/or blue in their flags.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

With now 18 working factions on a working campmap, I'm going to take a break from making this mod. Only for a couple of weeks don't worry.

After that, i'll sort out the province attributes (e.g. income etc), add a couple of new units, and who knows, It might soon be time for some beta testing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Can't say I've ever got to 32 factions so I wouldn't know for sure, but I have got up to 25 working before. I presume if the official files say 32 then that must be the limit.

[Myrddraal]

I think that the 32 factions limit is a general limit, not the limit to the FN_XX factions. I think that u could have, FN_50 to FN_82 and the game would still work.

[dessa14]

you will need to edit some of the tile sets.
from what i understand the Borderlands is very similar to savanna.
plz correct me if im wrong.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Yes I will have to edit the tile sets, but for the blight more than the borderlands. The borderlands are generally cold places in the north, but the blight is unnaturally hot and trees rot as they grow. The whole place is twisted basically.

I was thinking an easy way of making the trees for the blight would be to take the lush, winter trees and make them black. Then they would be leafless.

Any thoughts? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Yeah, you could have ones like FN_87 and so on, but I'm guessing it would just be 32 actual playable ones on the campaign map, I've never really pushed anything to that limit before however so I wouldn't know.

As for making the tree's black, I suggest using PSP7 or better to do that, pretty simple to do it in these programs.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ June 06 2004,14:07)]As for making the tree's black, I suggest using PSP7 or better to do that, pretty simple to do it in these programs.
Yea, the 'change to target' tool will be ideal.

In the meantime, I was reading 'The Crossroads of Twilight' and I found a new Sea Folk Ship meantioned in the chapter: 'A Bargain'


Quote[/b] ]Zaida tried to exclude other as well, such as Windfinders who served on large vessels like Rakers and Skimmers.

So so far we have one small ship, one medium ship, and two large ships.

[Lazul]

Was just thinking about this mod as i looked through a few of the books for tips on how to make the mod wheel of timeish

And I just thought that maybe you should keep the focus only on the militaristic, In other words many of the major towns should allready be fully upgraded, or almost so that you as a player dont have to sit and build up an infrastructer for years and years before you feel like going to war.

Just a thought... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Myrddraal]

Of course the major cities, will already be build up, but a large part of Medieval Total War is building up ur infra structure. I don't want to get rid of that completely.

I think that each nation should have one build up province. The capital city. In these provinces, there won't be much building to do, and you could not bother building anywhere else, but you would be at a disadvantage not to do this.


I thought about the Dark One and alliances again, and I realised that when a King dies, the prince automatically moves to the 'capital' to be crowned. The 'capital' is the province with the highest income (as far as I can make out) so this 'dummy' province will have to have a high income to make sure the dark one doesn't break free.


I have another problem. It seems making this mod is all about solving problems *sigh* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bomb.gif. As I play, at some point during the game, it CTD's. I tried to play again to see what caused the error, and it CTD again after a while. I changed the dates, just in case is CTD when it got to a certain date, but the problem still turned up, a short while after I play. I think the problem is caused by me trying to marry one of my princesses. Other princesses marry my king, but when I offer one of mine, the game CTD's. Anyone had this error before, cause if so a little advice would help me relax. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[dessa14]

you set the factions spawn point in the Startpos file.
thanks, dessa
where your king starts at the start of the game is where the prince goes.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

U sure dessa, I know u set where the faction leader starts, but after that, the captial changes. I've seen french kings spawning in northen Italy before. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[AggonyDuck]

If I remember right the King spawns in the province with the most buildings if I remember right.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[Myrddraal]

Hm. it seems this is gonna be a problem. Unless anyone knows for sure, I'll make the dummy province extreemly productive and put lots of useless buildings in it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

[dessa14]

heres an idea.
put the shadow leader in a dummy province.
that'll prevent anyone from reaching him.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ June 08 2004,12:35)]heres an idea.
put the shadow leader in a dummy province.
that'll prevent anyone from reaching him.
thanks, dessa
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif dessa thats exactly what i mean when i'm talking about the dummy province. The idea has been on this forum since page 4 or 5. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stupid.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[dessa14]

i haven't read every page
btw have you got messenger, talking to you would be so much easier

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I haven't got the time to test this, but I suspect the capital is the province with the highest tech level. If this is the case you could just make one building with a very high tech integer, that no faction can build, and then put that building in the dummy province.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

It would be good if someone knew for sure. Maybe i should ask in the Alchemists lab... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I've tested it and I'm now 95% sure that the capital is the province with the most buildings.
I loaded up a game and killed my king off, and his son was transported to Aquitaine, my most built up and, I think, most teched up, but not richest.
I then modded fortress to have tech integer of 20, and loaded up the game again. I have a fortress in Cordoba, but not one in Aquitaine, but again when I killed my king the new one went to Aquitaine, so I think it must be the most buildings thing. Those 5% of doubts come from the fact that the fortress was already built, and I don't know if the tech level is added to the province total as soon as the building is built (in which case changing the level afterwards wouldn't affect it), or if the level is calculated each time it is needed by adding up the level from each building. My inclination is to the latter.

So it does look like you're going to have to give the dummy province lots of useless buildings.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

Thx for the research Schrodinger's Cat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ June 08 2004,12:49)]btw have you got messenger, talking to you would be so much easier
Yes i do, but I'm not on it often, and the chances are I'll never be on at the same time as u, (UK time is too different from Australia time) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


P.S. Happy birthday shand http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif

[dessa14]

did you see your unusaul mercs topic
i think i have worked it out.
check the topic.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ June 07 2004,21:32)]I have another problem. It seems making this mod is all about solving problems *sigh* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bomb.gif. As I play, at some point during the game, it CTD's. I tried to play again to see what caused the error, and it CTD again after a while. I changed the dates, just in case is CTD when it got to a certain date, but the problem still turned up, a short while after I play. I think the problem is caused by me trying to marry one of my princesses. Other princesses marry my king, but when I offer one of mine, the game CTD's. Anyone had this error before, cause if so a little advice would help me relax. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Just to bring u back to the point:

[Myrddraal]

Does anyone know where to edit the text 'horses afraid of camels' I would like to change this to 'Unit afraid of Myrddraal' as I will make it so that all units exept maybe the eliete borderlander units afraid of Myrddraal and camels don't exist anyway. 'The gaze of the eyeless is fear'

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I assume you don't mean the Units this unit is fearful of in the unit prod file. That's all I know about.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

No, I mean, in battle when it says 'Uncertain Horses afraid of camels', and also after the unit descriptions, it says. 'Horses afraid of Camels'

I wan't to edit this text http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Try looking in this file Myddraal.

Loc/Eng/Battle.txt

I believe that is the file you are looking for.

[tombom]

It doesn't have it in the battle.txt file, only the changes file. I have replied about this in the thread in the alchemist's lab.

[Myrddraal]

Thx Tombom, does this work for both the text in battle and in descriptions?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Myrddraal]

New buildings

In this mod I will make new types of ‘castle’ so that the entire game is based around villages, towns and cities, not forts, keeps and fortresses. The problem with this is that a village does not become a city by building two buildings. To solve this I hope to make as many new buildings as possible. So many, that to build up a province from nothing to the maximum will be virtually impossible.

To start with I though that I would include 19 to 20 new ‘castle’ type buildings:

1 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Defended Village (Houses with a line of stakes around them, if possible?)
2 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Stockaded Village (Houses with a stockade)
3 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Fortified Village (Houses with a palisade)

4 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Town (Same as Fortified Village with a fort at the centre)
5 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer stockade (Same as Town but with extra stockade ring)
6 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Fortified Town (Two palisade rings)
7 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Fortified Town with keep (Same as Fortified Town but with keep instead of Fort)
8 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Walled Town (Inner palisade becomes a small stone wall)
9 http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Balista Towers (Inner stone wall gets balista towers)
10http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Fortified Keep (Keep gets better tower e.g., not keep towers but balista towers)
11http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer Stone Wall (Outer palisade becomes a Stone wall)
12http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer Stockade (Extra palisade ring)

13http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif City (Inner stone wall gets ‘City’ walls i.e. Taller stronger walls)
14http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer Balista Towers ( Second wall gets balista towers)
15http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif City Walls (Second wall gets ‘City’ walls)
16http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Stronghold (Keep gets better walls e.g. Artillery towers)
17http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Catapult Towers (Inner/Outer* walls get catapult towers)
18http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer Stone Wall (Outer palisade becomes stone wall)
19http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Outer Balista Towers (Outer wall gets balista towers)
20http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Fortress (Outer stone wall becomes ‘City’ wall)

*I am worried about the catapults damaging ur own walls

This is basically exploiting all the possible combinations, but u will have to build every single one to get to the top.


Fortified Town with Keep
http://82.68.81.227/david/Keep.jpg


More info to be uploaded...

[tombom]

Good work Myrddraal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Looks good Myrddraal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .

A couple of things,

If its possible and not too much trouble, I think the forts/keeps should look more urban, and less militaristic.

Also, I'm not sure about the ballistae and catapults. We don't see any catapults in the books and when a ballista appears in TFoH, it is unheard of. Since the eras your working on are before the books, siege weapons are therefore anachronistic.
It might be better to drop the garrison sizes of castles, and thus make the taking of a province more dependent on winning the pitched battle and sieging. It would be nice though, if the Shadow were to assault castles. They would be more likely to do so as trollocs would not be disciplined enough to siege a castle. Maybe they could use the Golden Horde behaviour?

Schrodie's Cat

[CrownOfSwords]

I like the progress, can we see an up-to-date unit-list?

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ June 15 2004,19:28)]Looks good Myrddraal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .

A couple of things,

If its possible and not too much trouble, I think the forts/keeps should look more urban, and less militaristic.

Also, I'm not sure about the ballistae and catapults. We don't see any catapults in the books and when a ballista appears in TFoH, it is unheard of. Since the eras your working on are before the books, siege weapons are therefore anachronistic.
It might be better to drop the garrison sizes of castles, and thus make the taking of a province more dependent on winning the pitched battle and sieging. It would be nice though, if the Shadow were to assault castles. They would be more likely to do so as trollocs would not be disciplined enough to siege a castle. Maybe they could use the Golden Horde behaviour?

Schrodie's Cat
U right, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif , I forgot about the balista thingy. But catapaults do exist in the books. The men of the Two Rivers build four of them before the battle for emonds field and the Aes Sedai enhance the stones so that they shatter and act like shrapnel.

As for the shadow, I have given them the same behaviour as the Golden Horde, and the Vikings. I have also given them the ablity to pilliage like the vikings. It has a very good (in my oppinion) affect on the game, the shadow often make raids into the borderlands. And if they manage to get through, bands of trollocs spread out into the caralain grasses pilliaging till they run out of men.

As for editing the forts etc. It is possible to change their textures, but not their shape, but you must remember, sometimes they share textures with other buildings, like forts and palisade walls.

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (CrownOfSwords @ June 15 2004,22:56)]I like the progress, can we see an up-to-date unit-list?
There is no official up-to date unit list, only what I remember from the books. I'll try and list the eliet units and some of the faction specific units of each faction from memory (sorry if some of it is wrong):

Andor: The Queens guards
Two Rivers Longbowmen

Cairhein: ?

Tear: Defenders of the Stone
Tairen Horsemen etc.

Illian: The Companions of Illian

Tarabon: Kings life guard
Panarchs legion
Taraboner lancers

Shienar: Shienaran heavy lancers

Saldea: Saldean Light cavalry

Kandor: ?

Arafel: Arafellin Swordsmen

Ebour Dar: ?

Amadicia: Guardians of the Gate? (or something like that)
Children of the Light

Ghealdan: Defenders of the Wall? (something like that)

Murandy: ?

Altara: ?

Mayene: Winged lancers

Other non-faction specific units:

Mounted nobles
Mounted Seargents
House Armsmen
Royal Armsmen
Pikemen
Armoured Pikemen
Billmen
Speamen
Armoured Spearmen
Town Militia
Archers
Crossbowmen
Peasants

Have I forgot anything.

Any suggestions for units would be good.

[Myrddraal]

Here is the beggining of a tech tree for buildings:

http://82.68.81.227/david/buildings.JPG

* I intend to include a much larger number of mines in this mod, the levels will be Basic mines (things like mining pits andquarries), Mine shaft (as the name suggests a min shaft), Mine (A proper established mine), Mining complex (as in MTW). There will also be smelters for the different types of ores. These will simply bring in income.

** Column 24 (in gnome), Population happiness adjuster - Is it possible to have negative numbers?

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ June 16 2004,11:36)]But catapaults do exist in the books. The men of the Two Rivers build four of them before the battle for emonds field and the Aes Sedai enhance the stones so that they shatter and act like shrapnel.
Ah yes. I'd forgotten about that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif


Quote[/b] ]As for the shadow, I have given them the same behaviour as the Golden Horde, and the Vikings. I have also given them the ablity to pilliage like the vikings. It has a very good (in my oppinion) affect on the game, the shadow often make raids into the borderlands. And if they manage to get through, bands of trollocs spread out into the caralain grasses pilliaging till they run out of men.


Sounds good, and realistic.


Quote[/b] ]As for editing the forts etc. It is possible to change their textures, but not their shape, but you must remember, sometimes they share textures with other buildings, like forts and palisade walls.

Okay never mind.

Tech tree looks good.
Maybe Cairhien should have an elite pike unit? Also, there should be a borderlands militia buildable by any faction (apart from the Shadow) but only in the borderlands,to represent the fact that virtually everyone can pick up a weapon and fight effectively. Also maybe merchants guards, with good attack and defence but poor morale, buildable at merchants.

Schrodie's Cat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[Schrodinger's Cat]

By the way, I've done a little work on trying to make a Trolloc bif, thanks to Duke John's excellent guide and the wonder that is Blender 3d modeller.
I've nearly finished the 3d model, so after animation, rendering, and whatever mullarky needs to be performed to get the imges into the bifs, I might have something worth showing you. Or I might have something that looks rubbish. Anyway, hopefully I'll have something fairly soon; my days are fairly empty at the moment but for 3 hours of watching football every evening.

Schrodie's Cat

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Schrodinger's Cat @ June 16 2004,15:33)]By the way, I've done a little work on trying to make a Trolloc bif, thanks to Duke John's excellent guide and the wonder that is Blender 3d modeller.
I've nearly finished the 3d model, so after animation, rendering, and whatever mullarky needs to be performed to get the imges into the bifs, I might have something worth showing you. Or I might have something that looks rubbish. Anyway, hopefully I'll have something fairly soon; my days are fairly empty at the moment but for 3 hours of watching football every evening.

Schrodie's Cat
WOW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Excellent, I don't care how bad it is, its better than nothing, Even if its just a brown shape.

Things seem to be taking a turn for the best, dessa just offered to help with the unit/build prods, I've nearly finished the campmap, and we will soon have a graphic (however good or bad) for trollocs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-antlers.gif.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[dessa14]

change inn to pub
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

More images:

The campmap pieces for the new buildings, they are still in the making and some are not finished:

http://82.68.81.227/david/Defended%20Villiage.JPG

http://82.68.81.227/david/Stockaded%20Villiage.JPG

http://82.68.81.227/david/Fortified%20Villiage.JPG

http://82.68.81.227/david/Stockaded%20Town2.JPG

http://82.68.81.227/david/OuterStockade.JPG

http://82.68.81.227/david/Outer%20Palisade.JPG

Missed out fortified town with keep http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

http://82.68.81.227/david/Walled%20town.JPG

[Schrodinger's Cat]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif Those are great, Myrddraal.

[Myrddraal]

A thought about beta testing:

Nowdays, modders live and work in the shadow of amazing mods such as Helenic, unfortunately, this mod has not gained much interest. I'm counting about 3 to 4 people who might just download. Because of this, it seems unlikely that I'll be able to have private beta testers. So it looks like a public beta release may be in order as soon as I can add some units and finish the campmap.

What do u think?

[dessa14]

heres my idea.
everybody that is part of the modding community you send emails to. asking to call to arms and test a new beta.
thats my idea.
thanks, dessa

[tombom]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ June 19 2004,10:10)]heres my idea.
everybody that is part of the modding community you send emails to. asking to call to arms and test a new beta.
thats my idea.
Sending out an email to everyone isn't really the best way to get people beta testing this. I think it's much better to do public beta testing as it allows people to have a go and see if they'll like it.

On a different note, this looks great, and I'll be downloading it. Keep up the good work Myrddraal

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (tombom @ June 19 2004,13:08)]On a different note, this looks great, and I'll be downloading it. Keep up the good work Myrddraal
Keep up the good work is the key phrase there, Theres still a bit of work yet to do b4 I can even release a beta, I acidently deleted a couple of files which I though I had backed up, and I'm waiting for a friend of mine to copy them onto cd for me. I've not been able to make any progress on the actual mod, though I have done some work on campmap pieces.

Still, I hope it won't be too long. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

[Lazul]

I would love to betatest this mod but... as I have a small hardrive, at the moment I dont even have MTW installed
But I will install it as soon as a beta is released

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[azid]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ June 18 2004,15:49)]A thought about beta testing:

Nowdays, modders live and work in the shadow of amazing mods such as Helenic, unfortunately, this mod has not gained much interest. I'm counting about 3 to 4 people who might just download. Because of this, it seems unlikely that I'll be able to have private beta testers. So it looks like a public beta release may be in order as soon as I can add some units and finish the campmap.

What do u think?
I think alot of people will be interested in this mod don't get discouraged i would love to try it =)

[kwarktaart]

i would love to test it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[kwarktaart]

can we see a pic of the borderlands now? they rule http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Myrddraal]

The trouble with the borderlands is they are the the second hardest to do, (first is the blight) because of the large amounts of mountains in the area, and also the fact that the place is meant to be colder. To do this I have used snowy textures. I'm working on Saldea, this will prob be the next thing I do, so hopefully it won't be too long before I can upload a pic of it.

[kwarktaart]

great

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Make it 5 people who might download http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I've been paying attention to this since page 2.
-Capo

[Myrddraal]

Thx guys. It makes it seem more worthwhile if people like ur work. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

I'm sorry about the lack of updates. My installation is brocken. No modded files were lost, don't worry, but It will take a few days to get it running again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[Duke John]

If you are in dire need of beta-testers, I can always put it in the Dungeon News. That should give response. Just sent me a PM once you are ready.

Good luck,
Duke John

[soibean]

keep up the good work Myrddraal... the game looks great so far from what Ive seen
Im working on getting the rest of the series so I can actually read the books so I can be the judge just how accurate you are because I have NO idea what youve been talking about these past 8 pages http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Myrddraal]

http://82.68.81.227/david/WoTbanner.JPG

New banner http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Duke John]

Nice, but it is too large. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif Images in signatures should only be 150x100, 10Kb at the max to avoid long download times when viewing a page. You can view the details here (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=3822).Please resize it.

Thanks,
Duke John

[Myrddraal]

K I will have it changed by tonight, in the meantime, I will remove it from my sig. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Steppe Merc]

I love the wheel of time, and this mod looks quite cool. Do you have the big Encyclopidea thingy? I has flags, and info on gov, units, etc.

[Myrddraal]

When you say the big Encyclopidea thingy do u mean the world of the wheel of time. If so yes. Its not all that useful, but it does have some interesting units. Accuracy is one of my greatest aims in this mod.


Quote[/b] ]I has flags, and info on gov, units, etc. Did u mean 'It has flags'?

PS. Work restarts on the mod today, after about 2 week gap due to a accidently deleted folder.

[Zanderpants]

I haven't made any posts on this topic yet, but I've been following it since you started, though I haven't read any of the Wheel of Time books. I'm currently beta-testing HTW, but when that comes out (soon I believe) I'd be very, very happy to beta test for you if you decide to go that way. The whole new feel of the game sounds really interesting to me, regardless of my lack of Wheel of Time Knowledge.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devil.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-deal2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devil.gif

[Antalis::]

Very interresting mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

The map looks really great and the castlepieces too


greetings:

Antalis

[Assassins_Shadow]

Hey Myrddraal, seeing as you said that the first time period would be pre-Aiel War, are you going to include Malkier, or maybe some of the other factions that sort of dissapeared by the time of the first book, such as Carlain or Almoth?

[Myrddraal]

I was thinking that a good starting date would be the fall of Malkier. The problem is that we hardly know anything about these nations. Even less than some of the more recent nations. I've already had to use 'Artistic licence' with the existing nations. I've currently got all the active factions from the books running, but adding an extra one or two wouldn't be too hard. If enough people want them in they will be. Of course, theres always the option of making another era.

PS Any news regarding the trolloc bif?

[Myrddraal]

An up to date unit list. Please don't hesitate to post your disagreements/suggestions/questions as I have used a great deal of 'artistic licence' to put this together:

General Units

Infantry:
- Peasants
- Woodsmen
- Peasant Archers
- Archers
- Crossbowmen
- Local Militia
- Town Mlitia
- County Militia
- House Armsmen
- Royal Armsmen
- Pikemen
- Armoured Pikemen

Cavalry
- Light Horse
- Mounted Armsmen
- Mounted Nobles
- Mounted Crossbows


Andor

- Queens Guards
- Dismounted Queens Guards
- Two Rivers Peasants
- Two Rivers Longbowmen
- Miner Militia
- Billmen
- City Guard of Four Kings

Amadicia

- Guardians of the Gate
- Dismounted Guardians
- Children of the Light
- Mounted Children
- Heavy Mounted Children
- Amadician Pikemen
- Zealots
- Fanatics
- Amadician Crossbowmen

Tarabon

- Kings Life Guard
- Panarch's Legion
- Taraboner Lancers
- Taraboner Infantry

Tear

- Defenders of the Stone
- Dismounted Defenders
- Tairen Heavy Horse
- Godan Cavalry -
- Maredo Cavalry - Javelins + Swords
- Tairen Horse Archers
- Tairen Lancers

Cairhien

- Royal Guards
- Cairhienen Nobles
- Billmen
- Free Companies
- Cairhienen Infantry

Murandy

- Royal Guards
- Murandian Bandits
- Merchant Guards
- Lugard Brigands

Ghealdan

- Defenders of the Wall
- Billmen
- Jehanna City Guard

Illian

- Mounted Companions
- The Companions of Illian
- Councils Bodyguard
- Illianer Sailors

Mayene

- Winged Lancers
- Dismounted Winged Lancers
- Mayener Marines

Altara

- Palace Guard
- Dismounted Palace Guard
- Altaran Light Horse
- Altaran Bandits

Arad Doman

Open to suggestions...

Units specific to the Borderlanders:
NB: The Borderlander nations cannot have Pikemen, Armoured Pikemen, House Armsmen or Royal Armsmen

- Borderland Milita
- Exiles

Shienar

- Shienaran Royal Lancers
- Shienaran Infantry
- Shienaran Mounted Bows
- Shenaran House Armsmen
- Fal Daran Cavalry

Arafel

- Arafellin Knights
- Mounted Swordsmen
- Arafellin Swordsmen
- Arafellin Ligh Horse
- Arafellin House Armsmen

Saldea

- Saldean Horse
- Saldean Horse Archers
- Saldean Levy
- Saldean Light Cavalry

Kandor

- Kandor Royal Bodyguard
- Kandori Archers
- Kandori Armsmen
- Kandor Heavy Infantry
- Kandori Lancers

The Sea Folk

- Sea Folk Warriors
NB: The Sea Folk cannot have any of the general units

The Shadow
Myraddraal
Dha'vol Trollocs
Dhai'mon Trollocs
Ko'bal Trollocs
Ahf'frait Trollocs
Kno'mon Trollocs
Darkhounds
Creatures of the Blight
Darkfriends
Darkfriend Archers
Grey men

The White Tower

Aes Sedai (Various typs)
Tower Guard
Warders
More?

[tombom]

Looking good Myrddraal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif Are the Sea Folk going to get more than the one unit? I've never read the wheel of time.

[Myrddraal]

Nope

The Sea Folk don't have an army at all in the books.

They trade, and defend their islands by sea.

By giving then hardly any units, I make sure they won't attack anyone by land

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Impressive M8 nice that you make a total new game

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Assassins_Shadow]

Myrddraal, for Arad Doman you could have Merchant Bodyguards(a heavy infantry or maybe light cav.), seeing as the king of Arad Doman is elected by the guild of merchants. Just a thought.

[dessa14]

is dragonmount gonna have any significance.
thanks, dessa

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] ]Myrddraal, for Arad Doman you could have Merchant Bodyguards(a heavy infantry or maybe light cav.), seeing as the king of Arad Doman is elected by the guild of merchants. Just a thought.

In Crossroads of Twilight there is a brief section involving Domani (at the beginning), but no descriptions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif . I guess I'll just include any units u guys suggest.


Quote[/b] ]is dragonmount gonna have any significance.

If you mean in terms of units, no. There will be no 'Dragonmount Guard' or anything. But Dragonmount will be the battlefield for the province of Tar Valon

[Myrddraal]

The WoT mod has been stopped recently due to holidays without access to a comp, but I hope to start work again. Thats why I'm still on units.

The mod crashes at the start of the second turn. Its a common problem I know, but I have a bit more info which I hope you can use to help me. The problem is something to do with a unit prod file I was making. I know this because I made a backup before I started work on it, and when I replace the unit prod with the old one the game works again.

Any ideas?

[themonkey]

I don't know much about WOT ,I read the First Book (not my cup if Tea),
But I know about Modding and can see You've done some brilliant peices of Work There mate!

[Myrddraal]

Thx. :)

PS check out my new mod description on the first page, or in the mod description thread. ~:)

[Inuyasha12]

Ohhh man i can't wait for this mod to come out. Im really interested it looks like it could be really good.

A brand new campmap, whole new factions and units.

A basic new way of play.

I will enjoy this much.

So how's progress, when can we expect a beta?

[Inuyasha12]

Anyways im just thinking about getting the book.

I mean you give me more information on it?
Or just tell me,
Are there any good battle scenes, or combat.

Is there action?, not just intrigue and politics.
Im a sucker for good combat and medieval action scenes. ~:cool:

[Myrddraal]

If u want combat scenes then you should like this series, there is a major battle in almost every book, and loads of smaller battles throughout. Its not quite medieval, as it the bad guys aren't always human, but its got some pretty epic battles. Its one of those books which once you get into, you can't put it down.

[Myrddraal]

Here are some descriptions from the final unit list:

Local Militia

Although all towns and villages within a nation are theoretically protected either by a local lord or by the monarch, often this help is insufficient to protect a village from bandits and raiders, and sometimes this help is non existent. Therefore many communities must fend for themselves and often raise their own local militia to protect themselves. These militia are suited to protecting their village from bandits and wolves they are by no means good soldiers, lacking any formal training, proper equipment and battlefield experience. They are suited to garrison work but are all but useless on the battlefield although their superior weaponry and training (limited though it is) will give them an advantage over peasants, and their spears and shields will allow them to resist attacks by light cavalry. However they stand no chance against proper soldiers and will be swept away by any heavy cavalry.


Town Militia

When a town grows, so does the need for protection from bandits and foreign invaders. Although most towns are protected by the monarch’s armies, many local lords and ladies feel the need for more tangible protection. For this reason a town militia is often trained to protect traders and citizens from bandits as well as perform more mundane roles such as basic policing and keeping the peace within the towns walls. These troops are better equipped than the militias of smaller settlements with pole arms which give them a distinctive advantage over peasantry and can give them an edge over armoured, professional troops (a fact which these professionals often resent). They have also received some form of training, often having been taught their skills by retired house armsmen and are well led, often commanded, again, by veteran armsmen.


County Milita

The larger a town gets the better its defensive organisation becomes. A large town needs some form of soldiery to defend it from the attentions of large scale invasion in war as well as dealing with bandits and keep the peace. Additionally, the wealthier a town is, the wealthier its lord is, the better the troops it recruits are. County militia receive better training and weapons than town militia, and receive armour which is adequate if a little old fashioned. There is also a better command structure, with units properly divided into squads of regular size. These troops are almost proper soldiers compared to part time local and town militias. They can hold their own on a battlefield, matching many armoured foot units, although they are vulnerable to any attack from medium and heavy cavalry.


House Guards

Although when a lord or lady goes to war it is the House Armsmen who form the core of their retinue, in times of peace soldiers are still needed to carry out onerous, and often dangerous duties, such as putting down riots and revolts and hunting bandits in the trackless wilderness. This unglamourous duty falls to men known as House Guards, little better than mercenaries in uniform. Many House Guards are drawn from the lower walks of life, most having been, before their recruitment, merchant’s guards or even bandits themselves. However, amongst their ranks can also be found men who have retired from the House Armsmen due to old age or serious injury. These men are though, well-seasoned fighters, accustomed to skirmishing and small-scale engagements. However, their poor, ageing equipment, lack of proper armour, lack of discipline and experience of full-scale battle means that they are outclassed by regular battlefield soldiers.


House Armsmen

Although nations are ruled by kings and queens, the land within them is divided into the estates of noble houses. Some of these, such as house Bryne in Andor are very small in size, but others, such as House Damodred in Cairhein own vast estates with huge revenues. Whatever their size, every House has a standing army of House Armsmen, and as vassals of the throne must contribute significant numbers of them to the Royal armies. These soldiers are well equipped, well trained professionals, disciplined and accustomed to large scale conflict. Their heavy armour, large shields and skill with their shortswords allows them to defeat lesser warriors such as peasantry militia and pikemen.


Royal Armsmen

When a monarch comes to power, he or she will want to ensure military superiority over any contenders to the throne, namely other major houses. With this in mind monarchs usually create their own private armies drawn from the ranks of their House Armsmen. These men receive the best equipment, training and, crucially, wages. The fact that they are drawn from trusted House Armsmen combined with their excellent pay ensures their loyalty and a monarch will be certain to keep them close at hand in the eventuality of unrest or civil war.


Levy

In times of war nobles and monarchs will raise levies as needed. These troops are not a standing army as such, but are a step above the hastily formed militias and local watches. Because modern day battles are thought of primarily in terms of mounted conflict, these semi professional soldiers are most often equipped with pikes, as these stand the best chance of resisting a cavalry charge. These troops are usually armoured with leather jerkins and some form of helmet and carry long knives or short swords; they are not uniformly equipped or armoured rarely even with pikes of the same length and balance. Levy are really just better equipped peasants, lacking proper training and discipline. They will hold against light cavalry, militia or peasantry, but will stand no chance against a determined assault by armsmen or heavy cavalry.


Pikemen

Pikemen are semi-professional soldiers who are kept in readiness for war despite not permanently serving as soldiers. These soldiers are equipped by their noble and therefore are better armed, forming a more effective fighting unit. Most pikemen are equipped with decent armour often a jerking sewn with metal plates or even chain mail. This provides them with some protection from archery but rarely stops a determined sword thrust. Although they are not under equipped, nor are they battle willing troops; their role is to form the mainstay of the army and provide support for more professional units in attack or bear the brunt of enemy assaults. Hence it is usually the pikemen who pay the butcher’s bill in battle as they are vulnerable to proper armsmen and nobles are often willing to expend them to preserve their better trained, more expensive units.



Armoured pikemen

Armoured pikemen are a step up from regular pikemen. They are often a fully professional unit which forms part of the standing army. Their good training and regular drill allows them to stand firm against most enemies, and their heavy armour allows them to withstand arrow fire and gives them durability in prolonged fighting. Although many nobles still shun them on the basis that they fight on foot, a wise commander knows the value of their solid discipline and good defensive abilities. They are often used to provide anchorage on the flanks to protect a battle line from cavalry or are deployed in a central block to push forward attacks. These soldiers play less of a support role than regular pikemen and are quite capable of forming the disciplined core of an army.


Light Horse

Light Horse are recruited by commanders to provide mobile scouting and skirmishing forces, acting as auxiliaries rather than front line troops. They are drawn from commoners and equipped at their own expense and therefore are poorly equipped with merely a short spear or sword and studded leather jerkins for protection. Their mounts are often of dubious quality, more suited to taking a cart to market than bearing troops into battle. The horses are unarmoured and therefore vulnerable to missile fire. These poorly paid peasant soldiers are rarely adequate riders and sometimes fail to control their mounts in battle. Nor are they the bravest of soldiers and tend to flee when they suffer heavy casualties. However they will overcome peasantry and militia and their mobility means they are well suited to chasing routed troops, although a wise commander remembers that they stand no chance in a frontal assault on professional troops.


Mounted Armsmen

Modern day conflict is most often decided by mounted forces. Many nobles (and therefore commanders) regard cavalry as almost sacred, and so they are always keen to include as many mounted soldiers as possible in their armies. Although cavalry are traditionally nobles, it is common for nobles to train their armsmen to fight on horseback. Although mounted armsmen lack the expensive heavy armour of nobility and their reckless bravery, they are well trained and equipped and are quite capable of routing most infantry. They are well drilled professional soldiers with good equipment and plenty of combat experience, but they are unsuited to prolonged fighting and will struggle against pikemen. They will also be outclassed by better equipped noblemen who have been trained to fight from birth, and so are best used to attack weaker units and run down routing troops.


Mounted Nobles

The mounted core of all armies south of the Borderlands consists invariably of mounted nobles. These cavalry units consist entirely of individual nobles, usually including one high ranking Lord accompanied by his tenants and lesser nobles. Each noble is armed and mounted at his own expense, and so they usually ride the finest horses and are equipped with the best and latest armour, with both the mounts and equipment kept in excellent condition by a gaggle of attendants off the battlefield for each lord. Even the poorest squire will still have at least three servants to look after him and his equipment. Despite their excellent fighting abilities, these nobles have one weakness; their arrogance. Many regard foot as mere cannon fodder and will often charge superior forces, confident of victory, only to find themselves overwhelmed within minutes. A wise commander will remember that these troops are not invincible even though they themselves think they are!



Andor

Queen’s Guards

When Andor goes to war, the Queen’s Guards (whose role in peacetime is to guard the person of the Queen and the city of Caemlyn) and the army are commanded by the first prince of the sword, but the Queen occasionally rides with them as well. In battle the Queen’s Guard act, as the name suggests, as a bodyguard for the Queen, but they are more than mere personal attendants. The Queen’s Guards role in war time is to provide Andor with its standing army, an elite core around which the army is built. They are the best fighters in the Andoran army, with excellent training, superb equipment and unflinching devotion to the Andoran Queen and nation. They are exceptional heavy cavalry, but can also fight on foot as unequalled heavy infantry. Their excellent fighting abilities come at a price, they are extremely costly to train and maintain.


Two Rivers Longbowmen

The Two Rivers is an all but forgotten province of Andor, one which has not seen an Andoran tax collector for generations. Its people are hardy hill folk, whose independence and stubborn attitudes make them sturdy soldiers. Their iron will and determination sets them apart from outlanders and makes them excellent soldiers when the need arises. The traditional weapon of this area is the longbow, a huge bow as tall as most men. Two Rivers men learn to use these weapons from their earliest childhood and can shoot arrows accurately over prodigious distances. The arrows fired strike home with the same force as a crossbow bolt and can easily pluck an armoured knight from his horse. Longbowmen are not officially part of the Andoran army and are notoriously difficult to recruit, as few regard them as Andoran. However if they can be recruited they are an invaluable asset to the Andoran army, as this backwater province produces the finest archers in the world.

Two Rivers Peasants

The men of the Two Rivers are renowned for their independence and self reliance, and are said to be the most stubborn people in the world. It is often said that they could teach stones to be stubborn. This iron will comes not from their arduous way of life, but has its source in their blood. The inhabitants of the Two Rivers are in fact distant descendants of the mighty people of Manetheren. The old blood runs strong in their veins. It is their ancestors who give them their strength of character and will. All of this makes their common folk naturally superior warriors, with most of them so stubborn they prefer to die than give way to their enemy. Having said this, folk of the Two Rivers are naturally peaceful, but when they are roused they are almost unstoppable. They are also better equipped than normal peasantry, many of them wielding the bill, which is in the Two Rivers a common agricultural implement.


More to come...

[Myrddraal]

Also have a look at this building tech tree here (http://82.68.81.227/david/Tech%20Tree.doc) (Still being worked on)

[Inuyasha12]

You have a new convert!!!! ~D

I've just bought the first book. So far it's been much character building but i know it will take off any moment!
That's a lot of new buildings BTW, great!
Anyways can you tell me what these will do
Illuminators Guild House
Pedler
Village Council
Wise Woman

I hope this comes out soon, just the though of playing a TW MOD about it made me catch an interest in the series.
Oh and it's partly your fault too ~;)

[Myrddraal]

Illuminators Guild House and Wise Woman bring up happiness

Illuminators Chapter House (not in the list yet, this is unfinished) brings up happiness, brings in a very small amount of income and gives you a title.

Pedler is the basic trader (If u read on a bit, the peddler Padan Fain sp? comes to Emonds Field soon)

Villiage council, and all the upgrades, are for building units: Villiage Council organises Levies and so can build peasants. Villiqge Hall builds local Militia along with spearmaker. Lords Estate builds House Armsmen, and so on until Royal Palace builds that nations Royal Unit.

More detailed description of all the buildings will soon come oince I have finished the tech tree. Some of the buildings have old names, but new functions, e.g. Muster field is not for building peasants, rather for mustering mercs, and Pay Master makes more mercs availiable. Spys are created by Noble and Royal Courts etc.


PS Does anyone know how that Trolloc graphic is coming

[Inuyasha12]

Yeah im at the part where they are leaving the village already, man it's getting good ~D
I specially liked Moiraine's story about Manetheren, who would have though a humble countryside like that was actually the most powerfull kindom fighting in the trolloc wars. ~:eek:
Does that have to do with anything with Rand's sword? ~:lightbulb:
Oh man don't tell me!! ~:joker:

[AssasinsShadow]

Yeah, The Wheel of Time is one of the best book series I have ever read. I can't wait for the eleventh book to come out, I read through A New Spring in roughly 4 days, so I don't have much else to read.

[JR-]

good to see a good well thought out fantasy mod.
METW doesn't look too promising. with only the few factions and originally was going to have gameplay like patritian.
thanks, dessa
my god, the dream has come true. ~:eek:

please, please continue work on this. :)

[JR-]

some thoughts:

Q) what is the ruleset governing the popes ability to excomunicate catholic factions?
A) would it make sense to have Amadicia/Whitecloaks as Orthodox given that they don't in conflict with Tar-Valon/Aes-Sedia anyway?

Q) what is the ruleset governing Catholic factions interaction with other factions? is it the same for all? or do Pagans, Orthodox, Muslim get treated differently?
A) if the same; then i guess it makes little odds, make the Shadow muslim (so they can lauch jihads), the Aiel/Seanchan pagan, and Whitecloaks as catholic (so they get inquisitors).
A) if muslim faction are more likely to be on the recieveing end of crusades; make the Shadow muslim (so that catholics will mostly go for the shadow), Aiel/Seanchan pagan (so they get less of a pounding), and Tear/Amadicia/Whiteclaoks/Seanchan as orthodox.

i like the idea of making Tar-Valon/Aes-Sedia the Pope faction, as they could excommunicate any Catholic factions that allied with the Shadow (muslims).
i also like the idea of making the Shadow Capital a dummy province so that only way the shadow could ally would be to instigate it itself, you wouldn't therefore have other nations trying to ally with the Shadow.

i guess it all hangs on how the other nations are treated by the catholic ruleset governing excommuniations and crusades..............................?



Q) can Shayol-Gul be a dummy province, and have other Blight provinces that are not dummy provinces?
A) if yes; then all the more reason to have most of the nations as catholic, so that they can be persuaded to crusade against the Shadow.
A) if no; then that is a bit of a problem as the borderlands have no strategic depth and will be overrun in no time.



the problem of travelling is a minor one, Rand only transported tiny fractions of his army by this method, so please add the Seanchan in as well.

can units be made defensive only? if so then it would be possible to justify battlefield Aes-Sedai.
can the defensive posture be specified for certain factions only? even better, then we can have Seachan/Shadow channelers.

emonds field................ i be tempted to leave it as a rebel province which can produce longbowmen, it was after all statistically insignificant (three villages, a small town, and some outlying farms).

[JR-]

it would be cool if there could be historical events included in the game, like false dragons etc, a good place to find this is:

www.dragonmount.com

[NagatsukaShumi]

Somewhat an unfair statement about METW from Dessa, due to the world the team are restricted to who they can include and having seen from the inside how it works I know what I'm talking about, both of these MODs will be great.

Any new news?

[Myrddraal]

some thoughts:
Q) what is the ruleset governing the popes ability to excomunicate catholic factions?
A) would it make sense to have Amadicia/Whitecloaks as Orthodox given that they don't in conflict with Tar-Valon/Aes-Sedia anyway?




i like the idea of making Tar-Valon/Aes-Sedia the Pope faction, as they could excommunicate any Catholic factions that allied with the Shadow (muslims).
i also like the idea of making the Shadow Capital a dummy province so that only way the shadow could ally would be to instigate it itself, you wouldn't therefore have other nations trying to ally with the Shadow.


As far as I know the pope can only excommunicate others for attacking other catholic factions or himself, so it would not work to have Tar Valon excommunicating people for allying with the Shadow. Anyway, this will not be a problem. I have worked out a way so that it is impossible to ally with the shadow.

Quoting myself:


It is essential that the Dark One does not ally with anyone so:
i. Emissaries will be faction specific and the Shadow will not be able to build them. This stops the shadow sending emissaries to other nations, but not other nations sending emmissaries to them.
ii. The Shadow's leader (Naeblis?) will be placed in a 'dummy' province, with no way in or out. Emissaries will not be able to reach him there.

BUT. This will mean that the Shadow cannot be eliminated, but you can still take all of their provinces. I suppose its appropriate in a way...






Q) what is the ruleset governing Catholic factions interaction with other factions? is it the same for all? or do Pagans, Orthodox, Muslim get treated differently?
A) if the same; then i guess it makes little odds, make the Shadow muslim (so they can lauch jihads), the Aiel/Seanchan pagan, and Whitecloaks as catholic (so they get inquisitors).
A) if muslim faction are more likely to be on the recieveing end of crusades; make the Shadow muslim (so that catholics will mostly go for the shadow), Aiel/Seanchan pagan (so they get less of a pounding), and Tear/Amadicia/Whiteclaoks/Seanchan as orthodox.


This is what I have done at the moment for religions, but it is not final:

All factions are catholic of religion (even though some will have different cultures and architectures e.g. Tear), except Tar Valon and the Shadow. At the moment the Shadow is pagan, which you can crusade against. Tar Valon is the equivalent of orthodox because:

I was thinking that only the Whitcloaks should be able to crusade, because this is more like the style they have in the books. I also want the Whitecloaks to have the Hand of the Light (Inquisitors). For this to work all factions must be catholic so that they can be inquisitated. I want the Whitecloaks to be able to crusade against Tar Valon so Tar Valon cannot be Catholic. I don't really like the way the pope functions in the normal game so I would like to have a game without a pope figure. This does not mean that Tar Valon will not play an important role in politics. I will give them more emissaries (or Aes Sedai Advisors) to start with so that most large alliances will contain Tar Valon. People will be more likely to side with the factions allied with Tar Valon as they will have most allies etc.

The fact that Tar Valon will be the only Orthodox faction will also mean that provinces will rebel against them easier, making it harder for Tar Valon to expand, which is a good thing.

At the moment the Aiel and Seanchan are not in the game. Perhaps they will be eventually, but one step at a time.




can units be made defensive only? if so then it would be possible to justify battlefield Aes-Sedai.


Not that I know of, I have set the faction behavior of Tar Valon to REBEL so hopefully they won't attack anyone. Also I will make Tower Guard and Aes Sedai have very high upkeep costs so that Tar Valon will not have enough money to build a huge army.



emonds field................ i be tempted to leave it as a rebel province which can produce longbowmen, it was after all statistically insignificant (three villages, a small town, and some outlying farms).

At the start of the game, which is 200 years before the books start, the Two Rivers will be part of Andor, but it will always be very undeveloped and rebellious.



it would be cool if there could be historical events included in the game, like false dragons etc, a good place to find this is:


This would be very very hard to do (at least for me) as it would require all of the provinces to be set out so that historical events happened in the same provinces as in the normal game. Also the dates would have to be the same as Medieval, which I don't really want to do.


Its nice to have another supporter ~:)

[Myrddraal]

By the way, I've done a little work on trying to make a Trolloc bif, thanks to Duke John's excellent guide and the wonder that is Blender 3d modeller.
I've nearly finished the 3d model, so after animation, rendering, and whatever mullarky needs to be performed to get the imges into the bifs, I might have something worth showing you. Or I might have something that looks rubbish. Anyway, hopefully I'll have something fairly soon; my days are fairly empty at the moment but for 3 hours of watching football every evening.

Schrodie's Cat


Does anyone know if this is still happening? Please say it is as this is the biggest hangup of the mod...

[JR-]

cool, you seem to have thought it all out.

i do think that all the main nations should be able to crusade in order that they are encouraged to launch attacks against outlanders that invade be they Shadow, Seanchan or Aiel.

do you need a pope faction to encourage crusading?

[Myrddraal]

cool, you seem to have thought it all out.

i do think that all the main nations should be able to crusade in order that they are encouraged to launch attacks against outlanders that invade be they Shadow, Seanchan or Aiel.

do you need a pope faction to encourage crusading?

No, strangely you don't need a pope to crusade. When u launch ur crusade, the message still appears saying u need to give the pope money etc..., but the pope isn't actually there. The problem with allowing everyone to crusade would be that they would all be able to attack Tar Valon, unless I completely reshuffled the religions, which is still possible.

[JR-]

it still seems most apropriate to me for Tar-Valon to be the Pope faction, wielding its influence over the other Nations (catholic).v ~D

[Papewaio]

But who hasn't attacked Tar Valon?

Aiel, Trollocs, I'm sure the Whitecloaks would love to...

Then the normal nations in the current situation are getting ready to help attack Tar Valon...

[Myrddraal]

it still seems most apropriate to me for Tar-Valon to be the Pope faction, wielding its influence over the other Nations (catholic).v ~D


But who hasn't attacked Tar Valon?

Aiel, Trollocs, I'm sure the Whitecloaks would love to...

Then the normal nations in the current situation are getting ready to help attack Tar Valon...

You cant have Tar Valon as both a pope figure and somone u can crusade against. Remember, at the moment I have made it so that Whitecloaks can crusade against Tar Valon and the Shadow, the question is whether other factions, such as Tarabon should be able to crusade as well. Also remember that the Whitecloaks must be Catholic to use Inquisitors, and they do not accept the authority of Tar Valon.

Either u have a pope figure Tar Valon, no crusading against Tar Valon, Whitecloaks getting excomunicated by Tar Valon, and no Hand of the Light, or u have all of these things, but no Pope. ~:yin-yang:

A seperate issue is whether other nations should be able to crusade, which I'm open to suggestions about. ~:smoking:


PS. does anyone know Schrodie's Cat's email. I cant contact him through private messages, there is an error. ~:(

[Myrddraal]

Update: As u can see, I have started work on the buildings. The building Tech Tree plan is finished but for some reason the server isn't working so I cant upload it yet.

I've also added the basic units which are common to each nation, and some of the faction specific ones (Shienar and Andor)

I need a little guildance on making the new forts, apart from the error above, I am also unsure how to implement the new bufs I have made for the castles. Is there a guide? If not a few tips would be very helpful. Thx.

What remains to be done before a beta is released:
1. Finish the graphics for the Blight.
2. Add some new provinces* for Malkier**
3. Finish the Buildings
4. Add some new units
5. Get rid of any obvious errors (of which there are many ~:( )

*I will have to do this manually as I have already used the 99 provinces from LMM, do u just declare the Viking provinces, and use the colours from viking on the Lukupmap?

**Which I have decided to add so that I can extend the time period a bit.

This may not be done before Rome, but I really hope it will be. Help, especially on adding the provinces, would be very much apreciated.

[JR-]

the other nations must be able to crusade to encourage them to attack the blight, as this is the biggest enemy, and the borderlands are too likely to get overrun otherwise.

i see the whitecloaks ability to crusade against Tar-Valon as a non-issue, as they were never strong enough to launch a 'crusade' against Tar-Valon anyway.

just make Tear and Amadicia rebellious provinces or some such, lets face it, AI nations get excommuncated all the time in M:TW, i'm sure there is a behavioural setting that can be used to enact such intransigience?

[JR-]

is a catholic nation any more or less likely to crusade against a muslim nation, as compared to orthodox or pagan?

[Myrddraal]

i see the whitecloaks ability to crusade against Tar-Valon as a non-issue, as they were never strong enough to launch a 'crusade' against Tar-Valon anyway.

In one of the books, the Whitecloaks camp around Tar Valon, and start to besiege it, even if this is without great effect, that doesn't stop them trying.


the other nations must be able to crusade to encourage them to attack the blight, as this is the biggest enemy, and the borderlands are too likely to get overrun otherwise.

I can see ur point, but the other nations rarely help the borderlands. They never give them any thanks either, many people south of the borderlands don't even believe that trollocs exist. They all fight amongst themselves whilst they should be fighting the shadow. Surely thats part of the irony of the books.


just make Tear and Amadicia rebellious provinces or some such, lets face it, AI nations get excommuncated all the time in M:TW, i'm sure there is a behavioural setting that can be used to enact such intransigience?

I'm not sure there is...


I don't know what to do about pope figures. My opinion is that having one is anoying enough as it is. What if you are playing as Tear, but cannot attack Illian you traditional enemy, for fear of being told off by Tar Valon. In my oppinion, a game without a pope figure would be much funner.

Maybe we should put this to the vote?


As for the muslim/pagan thing, I'm not sure. I'll experiment with making the Shadow muslim to see what happens.

[JR-]

that is at a time when the white tower is divided, but i take your point.

i agree that the borderlands are forced to go it alone, but you are not creating a scenario whereby the nations tick along nicely and the blight is quiscient, you are creating a new trolloc-wars/hundred years war. and at such points the Shadow was the enemy for the nations, and they sent armies from far and wide, much as occurred in the Aiel war. the Shadow must be the principal opposition, far in advance of any other nation certainly.

the experiments with crusades might be helpful here, if the Catholic AI is less likely to launch a crusade against an Orthodox faction than it would be against a Pagan or Muslim faction then Tear and Amadicia would be prime candidates for Orthodoxy.

The Aes-Sedai were always working behind the scenes to stop wars, so this would be in keeping with the popes influence, they are also the figurehead in the war against the shadow so it would be appropriate for Tar-Valon to be issueing the call to arms against the Shadow, and possibly even against the Seanchan and Aiel as well. I wouldn't worry about papal censure stifling conflict between Catholic nations either, when playing M:TW on expert the Catholic were constantly getting ex-communicated for warring against each other.

it is your mod, and 'm sure i shall enjoy it whatever is chosen as regardless of the differences in opinion, you have well reasoned ideas for the choices you have made, but perhaps a poll would be a good thing........? :)

[Myrddraal]

Or of course a simple answer would be to make two campaigns, both in the same time period, but one with a pope figure, and one without.


Making the Whitecloaks Orthodox is out of the question, because otherwise they cannot have inquisitors and the hand of the light! But I'm sure the religions could be reshuffled somehow.


PS. As I said I intend to put Malkier in the game so that I can extend the time period, but I think I will do this last of all as it will take the most time. I will first release a beta once I have done the buildings and units and campmap.

[JR-]

i agree with the need for the whitecloaks to be able to have inquisitors.

but to continue my argument for a Tar-Valon pope faction.........

could you specify a Catholic Amadicia/Whitecloak faction to be the only one able to launch inquisitions? and maybe increase the Zeal of any provinces they hold?

I'm all for Maulkier :)

PeegeeTips

[JR-]

don't know if you have already seen this, but:

PseRamesses said:
As my man Norseman is the code-hacker he found 4 major obstacles to make this come true:

I) Crusade is defined as a CATHOLIC cultural thing. There are two different solutions for this:
a) Everything related to catholic must be converted to appear pagan, and we must find a replacement for the catholic. However this implies that we can't use the correct strategy AI behavior. That is BARBARIAN_RAIDER for viking factions and CATHOLIC_something for most others.
b) Try to change the Crusade unit into a pagan unit. This is by far the best solution when considering workload. However, I don't know if a faction with the BARBARIAN_RAIDER strategy AI is capable of using a crusade. My guess is that it is not, as it wasn't meant to be.

II) There are 4 regions that are hardcoded to be more likely to attract crusades: Jerusalem, Tripoli, Antioch and Edessa. We don't know where LMM will redestribute these regions on our remade strategy map.

III) The biggest problem though is that to launch a crusade you need a POPE faction in the game.

IV) If we rather try to use the Jihad, which will solve all the above problems, we will have the hardcoded limitation that you can only raid regions you have lost earlier in the game.

What we would like this unit to do is,
1. The raider-unit should work in a satisfactory similar way as the original crusade if possible.
2. The unit should have the ability to travel even seasquares, without the required ships, to reach selected target.
3. The unit should be able to attack inland-provinces IF that region contains a river. Ex: The Swedish raids through Russia.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=30879&page=2&pp=30

[JR-]

To be able to launch a crusade (though here it won't be called like this, it would work the same way) there has to be a Pope. This is the first thing that I believe makes it difficult to make it work, because who would be that Pope? One of the Viking factions? What about excommunications then? What about calling for a crusade (so here a plundering raid)?

Second thing is that a crusade can be sent to any infidel region, so not only those at the coast. Though Vikings often raided inland towns and provinces using rivers, a raiding army would proceed very quickly and not like a crusade which can travel for years (and sometimes get stuck somewhere if it have been beaten before).

I see no way to change those hardcodded aspects of a crusade. I see no way to make this raiding army (or whatever it should be called) act the way you'd like to.
I see no good solution to this.

Regards,
EC
another quote you may or may not have come across.

[JR-]

not being silly, but how about having the nations is Muslim? seems quite appropriate given this description:


EC said:
indeed, in case of Jihads, there's no need for having a Pope. But, a Jihad can be sent only to a province a faction sending it once owned. That's why a Jihad is no good for a plundering raid, but rather for a liberating expedition...
If it was that easy, there wouldn't be so much discussion about it, believe me...

Regards,
EC


Pseramesses said:

Using the Jihad as a mold all provinces must then belong to one of the three viking factions at the start. We could thus direct the Novegians to northern Enland and Ireland, the Danes to middle and south England and even north-west France at the Swedes to Finland, the Baltics and Russia. Then on the first turn all the factions will emerge in all related provinces? Could this be done? Can emergances be controlled in this way. I know I saw this in some mod, maybee Two Crowns or the Hundred Year War?

[JR-]

how attached are you to the idea of of the Whitecloaks being able to launch inquisitions?

how about the Baalzamon as the Pope faction in Shayol Gull as a locked territory (just as FotN intend Odin to be), and the Blight territories could be divided between the 8 or so major trolloc Clans. this would be ideal as the clans would launch assaults (crusades) from the blight against the nations (heathens)............

[Myrddraal]

I see all these people saying that there must be a pope faction. This is NOT true. I have tested a game without a pope figure, the message still appears saying you must give the pope money, but he doesn't actually have to exist.