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CountMRVHS
05-07-2004, 02:30
Hi all,

For about a month now I've been tinkering with the Viking campaign and I'm in the process of making a couple of new campaigns. I wanted to post my ideas here to see if anyone has done anything similar yet, and to see if there are any ideas/suggestions/interest. If nothing else, I'll continue to work on these for myself

The first one uses the Viking map and is set in the time of the AngloSaxon invasions, the era of Romano-British resistance and the time period traditionally associated with the historical figure known as King Arthur. The factions are as follows:
Saxons
Mercians
Northumbrians (?)
Picts
North Picts
Strathclyders
Gododdin
Scots
Irish
Connachta
Eoganachta
Welsh
Britons
Dumnonians

This campaign covers the years from around 410 to 629. The anglosaxon factions are pagan; the rest Catholic. I have added many new units for the various factions to try to reflect historical accuracy.

My next campaign is basically another Viking campaign, with one important difference (and many smaller differences): it is split up into 3 distinct eras. Early - 656-786 (Death of last pagan Mercian king Penda to the arrival of the first shiploads of Vikings to king Behrtric's realm). High - 787-877 (first arrival of Vikings to the beginning of Alfred's successful resistance). Late - 878-1066. Factions are as follows, although not all factions are available in all eras:
Saxons
Mercians
Northumbrians
Picts
North Picts
Scots
Irish
Connachta
Eoganachta
Welsh
Strathclyders
Dumnonians
Vikings

I think those are the basic outlines. I'm still doing quite a bit of revising though, as I do more research about the periods and test for gameplay. It may look like the same old Viking campaign, but with my changes to starting positions, factions and unit availability I hope to make it somewhat more historically accurate.

An ultimate goal is to add GAs, at least Conquest GAs for this campaign, which would reduce the need for the Scots to conquer Sussex for example in order to win the game. With Conquest GAs a player could focus on keeping just ahead of other factions and proving military supremacy that way instead of some silly ultimate domination.

Anyway those are the basic ideas. I'd be interested to hear of any feedback/suggestions/ etc

CountMRVHS

Myrddraal
05-07-2004, 14:14
Hi CountMRVHS,

I started on a mod based during this time period, but I gave it up as I decided to start the Wheel of Time mod.

If you want to use any of my files, all I did was change startpos, faction names and added a pagan druid as a new agent, your very welcome

P.S. I thought the Dumnonians were Britons, and I also thought that the Welsh were split into two groups during the Saxon Invasion??

P.P.S Will the Scots have more forces in Ireland?

Look forward to playing this mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

CountMRVHS
05-07-2004, 20:57
ooh... pagan druid you say? I would be very interested in that... although I might change it to be a unit for the pagan anglo-saxons of the Arthurian mod, because as far as I know the native Britons of the time period were officially mostly Christian. I don't know a lot about using other peoples' files and stuff but I assume you could email it to me?? My email is paulrengland@hotmail.com.

I'm also curious to see what factions you used, and where you got your information. I can spend hours over the nitty-gritty of who had this province during this time period; it would be neat to compare notes with someone who has done something similar already.

You are correct; the Dumnonians were Britons. Their kingdom historically was centred around Cornwall and Devon (Cerniu and Defnas on the game map). I decided to make them a separate faction because they fought the Saxons almost as long as the Welsh did (well, the Welsh never really stopped fighting until after the medieval period as far as I know). In the original Viking campaign the developers tried to model this continued celtic resistance by giving Cerniu to the Welsh, but as far as I know the Cornish Dumnonians were independent ever since the breakdown of Roman power in Britain. They finally lost their independence sometime in the 9th century, according to the stuff I've been reading.

The faction that I have made called The Britons is centred around the game province of Wrocen Saeten and Hwicce, to reflect Vortigern's likely military capital at Wroxeter. I still need to do some tweaking to figure out what other provinces they should control (like should Somerset belong to them or the Dumnonians? Or Rebels?), but they have done quite well for themselves in the few campaigns I've started.

I hear you on the Welsh, Myrddraal. The hard part about this is deciding exactly at what point I can declare a certain group to be its own faction. The issue here is that I don't really want the Welsh to become a superpower when controlled by the AI, so I usually leave them on fairly tame behaviour settings. At first I gave them Guined, Clwyd and Pouis as starting provinces, to reflect the power of Gwynedd in the 6th-7th century, and to reflect that the two southern provinces (Defet and Guent) were not all under the banner of a common state of Wales. The problem seemed to be that the Welsh just sat there in those 3 provinces and didn't bother even to grab Guent, which gives them archers with +1 valor. I'm still not sure about how to handle this; do you have any suggestions? I don't even know what a reasonable Welsh faction might be called

In regards to Ireland, I have added the Connachta (in Connacht) and the Eoganachta (in Munster). The Irish I have left unchanged, and they begin with Brega and Laigin. The Scots still start with Ulster, but I gave the Scots access to kerns and gallowglasses because historically I'm pretty sure gallowglasses came from Scotland anyway, and I've heard of the early Scots using kerns. These changes apply both to my Arthurian mod and my Anglo-Saxon/Viking mod. I actually started to test a Scots campaign in my anglosaxon/viking mod the other night and it went interesting... by making the Scots probably the weakest force on the island, the Irish got real greedy real quick... I got kicked out of Ulster faster than ever From there it was a real struggle to make sure I could survive on the meagre income from my Scottish provinces (especially since I gave Cyil to the Strathclyders)
I'm not sure how historically accurate the name Connachta is, but Eoganachta is from a book I read. Irish I should probably change but I've left it for now. I've also tweaked what units each of these factions can train, mostly on whims because I've had a hell of a time trying to find solid info on any Celtic military history, even with several Osprey books. Any info you could help with would be vastly appreciated

Thanks for the response and interest

CountMRVHS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Myrddraal
05-07-2004, 23:10
Don't get too hopefull about the druid. I hardly did any work on it, he's basically a bishop for the pagans, though I have tried to make a new campmap piece for him. I still don't have any portraits for him though and this brings up an error whenever u right-click on him, (though the game still continues to run after this message, his portrait is just black)

I'll do a little more work on him before I send it across.

As for my sources, I don't have any specific ones, just what I can remember and general reading.

I'll look it up and post it if I find it.

Myrddraal
05-07-2004, 23:48
General info and info on religion in this time period:


Quote[/b] ]We might know very little about Arthur, but we can infer a lot from the times in which he probably lived.  Fifth- and sixth- century Britain must have been a horrid place.  The protective Romans left early in the fith century and the Romanized Britons were thus abandoned to a ring of fearsome enemies.  For the west came the marauding Irish who were close Celtic relatives to the British, but invaders, colonizers and slavers all the same.  To the northwere the strange people of the Scottish Highlands who were ever ready to come south on destructive raids, but neither of these enemies was so feared as the hated Saxons who first raided then colonized, and afterwards captured eastern Britain, and who in time, went on to capture Britain's heartland and rename it England.
The Britons who faced these enemies were far from united.  Their kingoms seemed to spend as much energy fighting earch other as opposing the invaders, and they were doubtless divided ideologically as well.  The Romans left a legacy of law, industry, learning and religion, but that legacy must have been opposed by many native traditions that had been violently suppressed in the long Roman occupation, but which had never entirely disappeared, and chief amongst those traditions is Druidism.  The Romans crushed Druidism because of its associations with British (and thus anti-Roman) nationalism, and in its place intoduced a welter of other religions including, of course, Christianity.  Scholarly opinion suggests that Christianity was widespread in post-Roman Britain (though it would be an unfamiliar Christianity to modern minds), but undoubtedly panism also existed, especially in the countryside (pagan comes from the Latin word for country people) and, as the post-Roman state crumbled, men an women must have clutched at whatever supernatural staws offered themselves.  

On the nations of Wales:
(from brittania.com)


Quote[/b] ]Vortigern & East Wales

Vortigern's family had lived in Glevum (Gloucester) before the Romans departed. Being a man of some influence in the town, Vortigern had managed to impose himself as the local leader in the area and, before long, he had taken control of the whole country as High-King of Britain. He is known to the Welsh as Gwrtheyrn Gwertheneu (Vortigern the Thin). As a man with no Imperial connections, he was viewed as a usurper by Roman legitimists, though he tried to consolidate his position by marrying a daughter of Magnus Maximus. His downfall is closely entwined with the story of the coming of the Saxons and the rise of the House of the great King Arthur. However, even after his death, his sons managed to retain control of his central power-base to the west and north of Gloucester, and founded the Kingdoms of:

Gwent (House of Fendigaid)
Powys
Buellt & Gwerthrynion

The most important of these (I think) are Gwent and Powys hence the names of the regions.

CountMRVHS
05-08-2004, 20:30
Thanks for the info, Myrddraal

I know that over the centuries the kingdoms of Gwynedd and Powys rose and fell at various times, so it would be nice if I could try to reflect that, for both of the different campaigns I'm working on. I just picked up a bunch of books on the early medieval period/dark ages, so I'll be doing a bit of research over the next few days.

It occurs to me that, as you are working on a Wheel of Time mod, you must have some familiarity with map editing...? It would be great if I could do some tinkering with the Viking map to reflect the actual kingdoms of the period... adding francland would be useful for both of my mods as it was an important region for the British/English during the Arthurian era as well as the later Anglo-Saxon period. It would also be nice to cut up the VIking homelands a bit for the later mod...

Do you have any idea where/how I can learn how to modify the campaign map? I know that there are people out there taking satellite images and cutting them up for their own campaigns... and I assume you must be doing something similar (minus the satellite maps of course) for your own mod. I guess changing the campmap isn't a #1 priority right now, but I'd like to learn how to do it somehow, and if you could help point me in the right direction I'd be grateful for that, too.

But thanks for that info, I'll have to check out brittania.com myself

CountMRVHS

Myrddraal
05-09-2004, 11:53
I think someone has already done this map GreasePaintMonkeyBrains? CountMRVHS. U could ask them if u can use theirs.

Click here to send a personal message to GreasePaintMonkeyBrains (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=MSS;CODE=04;MID=71-1051668712)

Click here to send GreasePaintMonkeyBrains and email (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=Mail;CODE=00;MID=71-1051668712)

PS. I'm not sure if these links work for other users http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

CountMRVHS
05-10-2004, 00:43
Thanks again, Myrddraal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Myrddraal
05-10-2004, 13:03
Always willing to help.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

maximus decimus meridius
05-11-2004, 13:34
hi CountMRVHS.
My question is what are the Britons units that you made? In my Fall of Rome mod, that covers the same historical period, i gave the Britons some of the late roman infantry e cavalry units, so i'm interested in what you made.

Good luck with your mod

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
max

CountMRVHS
05-11-2004, 21:37
Hi Maximus,

I have not quite finished with the britons as a faction yet. Lately I've been working more on the later campaign (set in the anglo-saxon and viking periods). But here's what I have so far for the Arthurian campaign:

I wanted the Britons to have the strongest cavalry in the campaign, because of all the references & rumors to that effect in the historical sources. The king & princes command a unit of Royal Bodyguards - which in itself is significant because not every faction now commands RBs. The Britons are also one of the few factions capable of training Mounted Nobles. For infantry, I gave the Britons Urban Militia (I always wondered why the Mercians got those guys) but not Militia Sergeants. Oh, and the Britons can train Mounted Sergeants at the Stable instead of the Horse Farm.

But those are all units straight from the game. I am planning on adding a unit called (for now) Civitate Infantry, which will be based on Feudal Sergeants. I have toyed with the idea of giving the Britons access to Tryggmen, which apparently was a sort of post-Roman/celtic/british infantry unit. The Tryggmen are based on Slav Infantry but with better all-round stats to make them a more viable unit. The Dumnonian faction can already train Tryggmen.

I've only thought about adding one more cav unit for the Britons; a javelin-cav unit based on Spanish Jinetes. I already have one of these for the Gododdin & Strathclyde factions, & am planning to add another one for some of the Irish factions, but I would change the stats on each to make them unique. I was thinking about calling this unit maybe Brythonic Cavalry.

In addition to the Britons, there are several other factions (Strathclyders, Gododdin, Dumnonians, Welsh) which may end up with some units that others might feel are really British, but that's the danger in making a campaign -- you have to make decisions.

What sorts of units did you add, Maximus? I've been poring over books the past few months looking for info. It's hard sometimes to extrapolate what exactly should constitute a new unit. I'm interested to hear what you've done

CountMRVHS

maximus decimus meridius
05-12-2004, 09:13
CountMRVHS.

In my Fall of rome mod basically i have only one faction to represent the Britons instead of 4 or 5 that you have. Anyway these are my Britons units:

Late roman heavy cavalry, armed with javelins and swords, armoured (mail), good attack and defence bonus (charge not very good.

British knights, armoured, good charge bonus, armed with spears.

Late Sarmatian cavalry, armed with long lances, armoured (scale armour), stationed in Britain from the 4th century AD.

Milites Limitanei, late roman border forces, infantry armed with shields and spears, poor morale, probably unarmoured.

Romano-British warbands, Celtic infantry very similar to late roman infantry but less disciplined. armed with swords and shields (also probably armoured with mail armour)

Archers. (the default MTW-VI unit)

Obviously the Britons didn't have the best Roman units like the Legions or the Auxilia.

You can see the Osprey Military books for other references.



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max

CountMRVHS
05-12-2004, 20:40
Oooh, good call with the Sarmatians.... I've read aboutthem but didn't even think to include a unit like that. I assume you are familiar with Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars? One of those Osprey books that you alluded to, and obviously the best one for thetime period we're dealing with. If you're interested in going north & adding the Picts, there is a Pictish Warrior one that's available. It actually does mention some stuff about other british peoples and Scottish and Irish warbands up to about 841 AD.

I took my first look at your mod on the stickied thread -- Looks great I haven't done any work with the unit graphics; just basically copied, pasted, renamed and gave new stats. Your mod looks like it might be the first one I download Should I grab it now or wait, as you seem to be still adding quite a bit?

CountMRVHS

maximus decimus meridius
05-13-2004, 09:49
Yes, i have Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon wars it's a very nice book with a lot of historical informations, i didn't know that there is also a pictish warrior book, but now i 'll buy it, of course.

About the mod, the present releases are the 2.0 and a small upgrade to 2.1, the next (3.0) is expected within 2 months, so i think you can grab it now.

cheers

max

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Myrddraal
05-13-2004, 15:02
CountMRVHS

I have nearly finished the Pagan Druid files and some instructions for adding them to the game, I have one small problem which I am asking about in the Alchemists Lab:

Editing campmap pieces (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=18195;st=0;&#entry307177)

Once it is done I will send it to u if u like. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

CountMRVHS
05-13-2004, 21:35
Max & Myrddraal --

geez, following both of your unique mods has me quite humbled I've not even begun to get into the campmap/unit changes you guys are working with. There are some great ideas out there from what I've seen. As of right now, my mods will be fairly simple ones, but I hope they will at least be quite historically accurate and give a more accurate feel for the periods involved.

Max, I think I will try to download your mod, maybe sometime next week. I've never done this before so I'll see how it goes. And the Pictish Warrior book is definitely worth it -- I think it's pretty cheap too; only around $15 US on Amazon, but I could be wrong.

Myrddraal, I just coincidentally read your post about the strategic agent changes. That would be excellent if you could send me those, if you don't mind My email is up at the top of this thread, I think it's in my 2nd post.

Thanks again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

CountMRVHS

Myrddraal
05-14-2004, 08:22
Unfortunatly the problem with the campmap piece for the druid is still not fixed.  The piece itself still appears just to the right of the rotating circle wich appears when u select him.  

This bug does not stop the game from working, so I can send you the files anyway.  I've written up some instructions for installing the druid and seeing as I don't know much about how good u are at modding, I've made them as simple as possible.

Do you want them or should I try to fix it first?

CountMRVHS
05-14-2004, 21:12
Sure, if the only problem is just that the rotating circle is a little off, that's no biggie. Once you get it figured out for yourself I can always (theoretically) go back and fix it based on what you've learned.

So, yeah, if you've got the time, go ahead and send it

And instructions are good -- because I'm not good enough at modding yet to know what I'm not good at... if that makes any sense.

Thanks

CountMRVHS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Myrddraal
05-14-2004, 22:48
Sure, I'll send them tommorrow. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Myrddraal
05-15-2004, 22:59
Ok I have sent the Druid as a zip file but the zip file was too big as I had included portraits for the Druid, (just a copy of some other portraits but they have to be renamed.) I will send them tommorow.

Myrddraal

CountMRVHS
05-16-2004, 23:12
Just got your email, Myrddraal -- thanks

I'll take a look at this stuff hopefully sometime this week; been a little sick lately http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

thanks again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Myrddraal
05-27-2004, 13:47
Hi CountMRVHS, Just wondering, did the druid work??

I never sent over the portraits, (never got round to doing it, my internet connection is slow and its a big set of files, sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif ) but all they were were the same portraits as Assasin. If u want to make your own, you need to put them in a folder called Bishop under Portaits/Agents/Pagan and call the files Bishop01, Bishop02 etc.

Hope it worked. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Highlander X
06-23-2004, 11:31
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif hope this project hasn't died on us http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

TheSilverKnight
07-13-2004, 03:12
Oooooh, I've always been kind of interested in Arthurian History and stuff Let me know how this mod is going http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif It's not dead...is it?????