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View Full Version : Who makes the most polished games?



Mount Suribachi
05-09-2004, 10:10
As in, whose games are released complete, bug free, stable on a wide ranges of systems, have the most depth, have thought about how to make the game players life easier, and generally display a high level of love & thought from their developers?

I would have to say Bioware. Look at the Readme for some of their patches - they are usually a list of fixes for really minor, obscure, hard to get into situations. I often look at some of them and think how/why did someone try that? The level of depth in their games is amazing, there's always Easter Eggs and funny little touches throughout their vast RPGs (remember the room in BG with the Elvis pictures on the wall? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif )

For me KOTOR is the finest example of this, I don't know of a more polished game out there.

I've never seen a multi point wishlist for how to make this good game great for a Bioware game, like the one we all have for MTW, or froggys CK 25 point list.

Axeknight
05-09-2004, 10:12
The makers of Hidden and Dangerous http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif Oh, wait...

Mount Suribachi
05-09-2004, 10:49
PC Gamer summed that game up perfectly - a bug-ridden piece of genius

*whispers*

follow me

frogbeastegg
05-09-2004, 10:52
I would go with Looking Glass, they may be dead now but their games never actually *needed* patching. Yes they were patched, but they never needed it, and it was always the most obscure things that did get patched. Looking Glass loved their work, and it showed. Nothing ever needed adding becasue they had included it all in the first place, very little needed fixing because it had all been tested to death, barely needed tweaking becasue it had already been tweaked carefully. Playable out the box, and beautiful for it.

Bioware, no way. Their Infinity engine games all had the same bug on release (that cache leak that slowed the game down to a crawl), and they never adequately fixed that even with patches. The games also have had technical problems on every single computer build I have had since 1995, that would be about 7 or 8 vastly different builds. Shameful.

CA, well they don't need so many technical patches, which is good because you barely *get* any patches. There is still plenty of room for improvement in MTW, but notihng will ever be done.

Paradox can have an honoury mention as the company who patches most, but also needs to most. Still I suppose after the first 5 or so bug fix patches the rest are just extra features or tweaks players have requested. Now if only they would finish the game before releasing it...

Mount Suribachi
05-09-2004, 15:00
Oops, yeah, forgot about that memory leak, hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Fragony
05-09-2004, 16:28
I would say nintendo, they are real perfectionists. Blizzard entertainment's games are also very well done, with insane production values (oh the movies of diablo2/warcraft3).

The Wizard
05-09-2004, 19:53
Don't make me drool at the thought of those, Frag... but in light of balance issues in online play, Blizzard is not the maker of flawless games...

Bioware would indeed be a good contender, as well as Nintendo. Or maybe Lionhead... they say there was this big bug at the end of the game but I never encountered it...



~Wiz

Cazbol
05-09-2004, 22:24
I would have said Bioware until I played NWN: Hordes of the Underdark in multiplayer. Bioware admits to giving up on making it playable in multiplayer to get the expansion out before christmas to increase sales, and it shows. The game is full of things that show they were trying to make it work in multiplayer but in the end they just gave up. Worse still is that they didn't do an awful lot to tell people that this was a single player only module so a lot of people felt cheated. The box even states multiplayer requirements but they later tried to excuse it by saying that the new items could be used in user made modules that might work in multiplayer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
They really lost a lot of goodwill on that one.

I guess I'll vote for Blizzard because I haven't seen any bugs in the two games of theirs that I've played. There can be no perfect balance unless all sides are exactly alike.

MalibuMan
05-09-2004, 23:00
I know it's dangerous to go on only one game... but Valve anyone?

Yes they have been sort of attached to other games since but they haven't really had another game that's definitively theirs. And that one game is pretty damn polished if you ask me...

hrvojej
05-10-2004, 00:32
I always thought that, unlike the other things they make, good old Microsoft was shipping polished and bug-free games. At least those I played were very user-friendly and devoid of technical issues.

Beirut
05-10-2004, 02:08
Vey true about MS.

Combat Flight Simulator 1, for example, I played it for hundreds and hundreds of hours and never had a lock-up or CTD. Quite something.

And then along came CFS3, that CTD, bug-ridden piece of s***. Ruined an excellent reputation.

MalibuMan
05-10-2004, 08:56
But is that because M$ have the good sense to get other people to write their games for them, and they just publish them?

chunkynut
05-10-2004, 10:02
Quote[/b] (MalibuMan @ May 10 2004,08:56)]But is that because M$ have the good sense to get other people to write their games for them, and they just publish them?
Not sure but I've been impressed by MS games and i think that might be just because i've used their other software.

There are loads of titles spread across every genre so i think they must publish others' games.

The Wizard
05-10-2004, 11:30
Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ May 09 2004,22:24)]I guess I'll vote for Blizzard because I haven't seen any bugs in the two games of theirs that I've played. There can be no perfect balance unless all sides are exactly alike.
Well, really, if you've played the early patches of WC3 vanilla on BNet, compared to the latest patches, it is a whole lot more balanced now. It takes balanced armies of combined units, strategy, and micro to win, not mass huntress or mass casters...

Frozen Throne was better balanced, but they forgot the Beastmaster, which some players abused to rank 1 on the Europe realm. 5 patches on and it's still not totally balanced... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

Still, better than 1.04 vanilla WC3. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif



~Wiz

Rosacrux
05-10-2004, 12:30
Taking out the (rather persistent, in their infinity engine games) memory leak bug, I'd nominate Bioware. No game-breaking bugs and what they release is indeed the final product, with only minor tweaks needed to achieve perfection.

If you pitch them against 3DO (R.I.P.) who would release a bloody unplayable game (HOMM3&4) and patch it to the death (or, rather, to life) or to Firaxis (Civ3) or Paradox or EA, they faire extremely well.

Blizzard has got a good reputation but I don't like their games so I wouldn't know for sure.

Very good after sales support: Paradox, (late) 3DO: they wouldn't stop patching the original no matter what.

Lechev
05-10-2004, 19:59
SSI of those games in the good ole' days when 286 and 386 CPU rulz.

RisingSun
05-10-2004, 22:33
Paradox...

Haha, gotcha I'd say Blizzard.

solypsist
05-12-2004, 05:37
I don't think I've ever patched a game by Sierra. and most patches were simply enhancements and did not actually do anything to game control.

Fragony
05-12-2004, 07:10
I think epic and ID deserve to be on the list as well. The unreal and quake games are very solid products.

MalibuMan
05-12-2004, 16:00
Quote[/b] (solypsist @ May 11 2004,23:37)]I don't think I've ever patched a game by Sierra. and most patches were simply enhancements and did not actually do anything to game control.
Isn't Sierra a publisher rather than a developer? E.g. IIRC HL was developed by Valve, published by Sierra.

nightcrawlerblue
05-12-2004, 17:00
Quote[/b] (solypsist @ May 11 2004,23:37)]I don't think I've ever patched a game by Sierra. and most patches were simply enhancements and did not actually do anything to game control.
Sierra isn't a developer. It's a publisher.

Stardock is the best company that I've seen. Period.

they developed (and published) Galactic Civilizations. I never got into it but I respected the company because they created 10+ patches (I think it was 20 but I am not 100% sure)on that game which was very stable out of the box. Any company that will do that many patches is good in my book.

Oh, and they released a bonus pack the day the game came out. And a free expansion

solypsist
05-12-2004, 20:20
oh. well then they publish damn good flawless games http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The Wizard
05-12-2004, 20:25
well, were the king's quest and such adventure games so full of flaws then? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Degtyarev14.5
05-27-2004, 16:13
Exactly

About two years ago, I found myself playing King's Quest VIII. To be fair, the game truly excels in two areas: atmosphere and music. Combined, these elements of the game made it incredibly immersive, and I do find myself wishing that other games would catch my imagination likewise.

But it also had some horrible flaws. Like the unavoidable freeze that occurred when you performed a certain necessary task. As I see it, this effectively proves that the game was tested not even once prior to its release, and only after the disgruntled gamers made themselves heard did Sierra realise there was a problem.

The graphics also suffered from countless glitches, although I do recall laughing loud and long on numerous occasions when I accidentally (most of the time, anyway) positioned Connor such that his body was completely dissected by a wall or floor rendering. I'm sure that wasn't the reception Sierra intended.

Certainly that game had a lot of potential, but, like almost all games today, was released in an unfinished state.

A.

SwordsMaster
05-27-2004, 16:25
I would say Pyro Studios. I havent heard of any bug in any of theur games...

nightcrawlerblue
05-27-2004, 23:31
I've never heard of them at all

Rosacrux
05-28-2004, 08:36
Regarding Sierra (hey kiddies, Sierra was the developer, with gazillions of super-succesful games - mostly adventures) I never played adventures so I wouldn't know about those, but I've played a couple of their strategy games and they were in deeeep shite, bug-wise speaking.

Especially the very-promising-but-never-really-up-to-its-expectactions-and-promises Lords of Magic (a HOMM rip-off) was bloody unplayable out of the box. After 3 or 4 patches it became a great game, but it had already a lousy reputation so it went down the drain anyway...

...oh, the memories http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

SwordsMaster
05-28-2004, 09:27
Quote[/b] (nightcrawlerblue @ May 27 2004,23:31)]I've never heard of them at all
The guys who made the Commandos games and Praetorians. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

frogbeastegg
05-29-2004, 10:38
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ May 28 2004,08:36)]they were in deeeep shite, bug-wise speaking.
Watch the language

Monk
05-29-2004, 13:25
Quote[/b] (solypsist @ May 12 2004,15:20)]oh. well then they publish damn good flawless games http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Then clearly you never picked up the bug ridden crap of Tribes 2. What could have been one of the best online shooters of it's day, it was ruined because it was put on the market in its Beta state nearly unplayable. You wouldn't play 30 minutes without having a UE (in other words a huge error that crashed your PC) Sierra published this piece of crap then tried to make everything ok by released 6 patches which never fully fixed the game. Even though it was almost unplayable there was a community within the game that lasted about a year and a half before people got tired of waiting for the game to be completed. I think back in 03 they released a 90mb patch that supposedly fixed the game...but it didn't. It was rare indeed if you even played for more than an hour without a UE. (at least in my and most of the people i knew's experience)

Sierra is now and forevermore on my list of publishers/developers i will never buy games from again, that is unless they actually decide to let the developers finish the games they publish.

*sigh* i still remember the agony and untold frustration that game caused me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Rosacrux
06-02-2004, 09:02
Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ May 29 2004,04:38)]
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ May 28 2004,08:36)]they were in deeeep shite, bug-wise speaking.
Watch the language
Sorry Froggy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

Navaros
06-16-2004, 07:25
Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ May 09 2004,04:10)]As in, whose games are released complete, bug free, stable on a wide ranges of systems, have the most depth, have thought about how to make the game players life easier, and generally display a high level of love & thought from their developers?

I would have to say Bioware. For me KOTOR is the finest example of this, I don't know of a more polished game out there.
i totally disagree


i have a sound-crackling problem with KOTOR for the PC.


granted, i have it with some other games too. it MAY be a hardware issue on my end that is the underlying cause for this

however, i have many 3D games that DO NOT have sound-crackling issues at all. therefore i believe it is possible for BioWare to patch this issue, yet they have not

i also know that there is an issue with KOTOR that is not a hardware issue. that is, KOTOR for the PC is incompatible with the latest NVIDIA ForceWare drivers. yes - the game still works - but you will see a line splitting right down the middle of your characters' faces, and no way to get rid of it other than to revert to an earlier NVIDIA driver. kinda totally ruins your immersion factor, having to put up with that

furthermore, i've also had numerous clipping/tearing/refreshing errors during the MOVIES of KOTOR for the PC. tho the game itself refreshes at 85Hz (as i set it to), the movies for some reason do NOT and hence there is annoying black flickering during most of them