View Full Version : Theif 3 review....
Leet Eriksson
05-24-2004, 20:44
Theif 3 Review (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/thief-deadly-shadows/518035p1.html)
Sounds like the original games.But i'll defenitly give it a try,i'll probably get it for the xbox becuase my comp became a bit clunky with all these game icons on desktop.
Its true that NPC look like waxed dummies, but I will get the game just because I can see the Keeper Archives. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
// extreme fanboy alert
YAY almost there More Thief My worst fear comfirmed, the reviewer is implying a lack of inspiration. Still, I cannot wait to get my hands on this. But as it seems there will be no editor, which would be a massive disapointment after the mammoth petition to include it. Having a new thief without fanmissions??????????????? Bah to that VERY VERY bah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Sjakihata
05-25-2004, 00:58
im looking forward to this game as well, I still remembered when I played thief 1, never played #2 tho.
discovery1
05-25-2004, 05:09
No. It has DXIW size maps. No, no, no. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif And it also seems to have DXIW style grphics(ie poor graphics that can achive only modest frame rates on even the best computers)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
frogbeastegg
05-25-2004, 09:52
There were a couple of hands on previews of Thief 3 at through the looking glass, played by two thief fans. For the most part they liked the game, and said it was undoubtably thief. Those pages are down at the moment, I'll link to them when they are back up.
Of course the validity of those previews depends on how far you trust the opinions of two people. I'm still not convinced, but I am getting a bit more hopeful that the game will be more than unremitting garbage.
It's supposed to be out on the 16th of next month here, and I'm determined to finish thief 1+2 before then. Can I do in 22 days what I haven't managed to do in 5 years? I'm feeling confidant due to two things:
1. Restored EAX capability on my PC to improve that all important sound.
2. I got the lock on my door working, so no interruptions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
It's supposed to be out today in the US, isn't it?
Thief: DS is shipping today in the U.S. It should be available in stores tomorrow.
I am genuinely disappointed with Ion Storm's recent efforts. Per the reviews gameplay and AI seem to be spot on in T:DS but Ion Storm seems to have done little to improve the engine sufficiently over the version used in DXIW. The crappy graphics and animations are inexcusable. I wasn't expecting state of the art graphics from DX:IW and T:DS but this is ridiculous Even the original Thief series had quality animations for the 3D models And these tiny XBox friendly levels don't go over well with me either.
Graphically it seems to me the biggest problem with these latest Ion Storm games is the developer's obsession with bump and/or dot mapping. These techniques give models the illusion of possessing a higher polygon count and respond realistically to realtime lighting effects but they can kill the framerate when utilized on anything but the most powerful 3D cards. I think this is also the reason why DX:IV and T:DS lack high poly models and detailed textures (let alone extremely detailed textures like those found in Max Payne 2), it was a trade off Ion Storm was willing to make in order to keep the bump/dot mapping and highlight their powerful lighting effects. It also helped Ion Storm kill two '3D' birds with one stone. Since the XBox doesn't have the same memory capacity as 256meg+ PC equipped with a 128 meg 3D card they cut corners and saved themselves the trouble of creating a more detailed texture set for the PC versions of DXIW and T:DS. Basically the only thing Ion Storm's game engine does right are lighting and physics effects. It was the one thing that saved DX:IV from looking like complete crap. I don't count the AI as that is considered independent from the rendering engine.
Every review I have read so far implied that the pc release suffers from the console release. It is a shame that the levels have been simplified to keep it the framerate steady on the box. They could have made bigger levels with more loading zones for the x-box, as it seems the pc version is the x-box version with better textures. My biggest gripe, no editor. I have this feeling that this is because the loading times aren't necesary on a pc, that the pc version is indeed a direct port and fanwork could reveal the sloppy coding. No editor is a crime, sure there are some talented folks at Ion Storm, but they cannot beat the fanwork quality that pushed the dark-engine to the max over the past years. I am so very disappointed they didn't include the very thing that made me stick with this series after all these years.
A bunch of reviews are up...
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/thief3/review.html
http://pc.ign.com/articles/518/518951p1.html
http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1600847,00.asp
Despite my anticipation I'm not going near this title until it's been patched at least once and the Thief community creates a similar performance tweak applet like the excellent one that came out after DX:IW hit the shelves.
OK, I just bought Thief: Deadly Shadows on Thursday. I thought that I would just install it to see what its like and then leave it alone for a few months until it's patched and/or user tweaks and applets hit the net. Well forget that. This game is hard to put down because it is the Thief we know and love.
Let's get the truly awful stuff out of the way first:
The key mapping feature is awful. For some reason I couldn't get it to work properly. I mapped out all the keys I wanted except those used for basic movement. For some reason the game refused to accept anything except for some odd joystick entry that I didn't enter After the weird joystick entry appeared if I double clicked on the same keymap selection again the game would just crash to the desktop Eventually I used Notepad to open up the 'options.ini' file found in the My Documents/Thief - Deadly Shadows/SaveGames/User Options folder and manually entered the desired keys. Should any of you have to do this as well it's far from rocket science and pretty self explanatory once you open the ini file and look around in there. Even though the game has a built in default setting remember to make a copy of the original ini file before editing
The mouse response also feels a tad slower than it should be. Fortunately this can be rectified via a simply tweak by changing a value in the options.ini file.
Performance:
First, my system:
Athlon XP 2400+ ('unlocked'; running it at 2Ghz w/333Mhz bus/memory speed instead of the default 266Mhz)
Radeon 9700
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card
1Ghz PC2700 DDR (333Mhz)
120gig hard drive (2meg cache)
Windows XP (w/SP1 installed)
ATI Catalyst 3.10 drivers (Ion Storm recommends using Catalyst 4.4 or better but the 3.10s are the most stable for me)
The 3D engine has definitely been refined and improved because T:DS runs noticeably better than Deus Ex: Invisible War did without any tweaks. T:DS also runs better than DX:IW even after I used an excellent user made tweak applet which drastically increased the latter's performance. Unfortunately anti-aliasing is still unusuable. I tried 2X and 4X anti-aliasing using ATI's control panel and at 1024x768 the framerate plummeted to unplayable levels. The in-game's 'Multisampling' style of anti-aliasing works ok but is definitely inferior to ATI's. Multisampling does get rid of jagged lines but looks somewhat 'off' and creates little artifacts on textures in the distance. I left it turned off by default. I played DX:IW using 2X Multi-sampling but since that game had a tendency to look rather bland I didn't care about the artifacts. Since I really detest seeing jagged lines I kicked up the resolution to 1280x1024, left 16x Performance anisotropic filtering enabled in the control panel and hoped for the best. Voila Smooth, playable framerates. With the exception of the 'Bloom' effect which I turned off all other graphical settings are set to their maximum levels.
Graphics:
Despite reports of shoddy animations, 'wax figure' characters and low detail textures the animations and graphics are quite good. The character animations are neither shoddy or top notch but are at a convincing level somewhere in between. To put it into words; occasionally brilliant with some rough spots here and there, certainly nothing to get upset about and more importantly they do not ruin the immersiveness of the game. The so-called 'wax figure' characters look fine and despite reports stating otherwise they DO lip sync their dialogue. The textures could be more detailed and the polygon count of inanimate objects and structures could have been a touch higher (they still look superior to those found in DX:IW) but the lighting effects make everything look positively spectacular in the typically dark levels. The pixel shading and bump/dot mapping effects really show off the strengths of the engine. On the other hand if this were a 'daylight' game then I think I might have to downgrade my praise of the graphics but this isn't a problem since everything in T:DS takes place at night with splashes and flickers of light here and there. Overall the artists and level designers for T:DS have truly shamed their counterparts on the DX:IW team. The T:DS development team really made the most out of the strengths of the engine.
Sound:
This game oozes atmosphere and much of this is due to the top notch sound. The sound effects, voice acting, ambient sound effects and music are all exceptional. In fact it seems that in addition to Stephen Russell as Garrett most of the same voice actors used in the original series are also back as well which, for some silly reason, I found very comforting. Unfortunately I cannot take full advantage of the EAX options available in the game, a few of which are only available to owners of the latest Creative sound cards. Even Soundblaster Live owners will be left out in the cold with regards to these advanced EAX features. Beyond EAX there is a hardware audio acceleration option which doesn't work well at all. No change over DX:IW in that those of use who do not have the latest Creative cards are screwed out of the full 3D sound experience. The good news is the default sound quality and spatial positioning effects are still excellent.
Gameplay:
The gameplay is spot on. It not only looks and sounds like a Thief game but plays like one too. The three basic modes of locomotion; running, walking and creeping, all feel right. Jumping and crouching also seem fine. The leaning function takes some getting used but it feels completely natural after awhile.
The third person view everyone has made such a stink about is fine if you like that kind of thing. It is nice to see Garrett in the 3rd person stalking the corridors of some musty castle but what I like most about that view is when I use it to take an occasional glance at Garrett's face. When close up you not only see the details of his face and strange glow of his mechanical eye but you can also see him blink too
Speaking of the mechanical eye it now is a default 'tool' of Garrett's. The eye has a strange, telescopic zoom feature which allows you to view distance objects as if you're looking at a creaky old monochromatic television image. It's helpful and certainly more effective than the old Thief tactic of using your bow's zoom mode to figure out what the hell it going on across a map but it's a little too high tech for my tastes. I generally refrain from using it.
Collecting valuable trinkets is much easier in T:DS. All objects of value have a faint glimmer or glow around them which makes them much easier to spot from a distance. This same glow also encompasses usable and/or readable objects. It doesn't look as nice on these kinds of objects but what's worse is that the glow is also present when you're close to and aiming at a chest, door, window or any other portal or piece of furniture that can be opened or accessed. It's pretty ugly to have a large object like that all aglow in the dark. Thief for idiots I guess.
The new system of picking locks is really fun and has the potential for all sorts of hair raising experiences. No more preset time needed to pick a particular lock, how quickly you pick the lock is dependant on how good a lockpicker you really are... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The maps may not be as large as those found in the original series but the flip side is they're better designed (i.e. seem more realistic), more 'colorful' and make more efficient use of space.
The storyline immediately pulls you into the game and the writing, vis a vis Garrett's voice overs and the overheard dialogue of the various npcs is great. It was such a thrill to hear Garrett's voice kick off the tutorial map. Garrett is back and he's as clever and sarcastic as ever. Also there is tons of great npc dialogue which at times can be really funny.
Just so you know I am an extremely critical person when it comes to movies, books, computer games, etc. and it takes alot for me to give something high praise. I loved the original Thief series so you can imagine how excited I was when I first learned Ion Storm picked up the franchise. You can also imagine the size of the chip on my shoulder after playing DX:IW knowing T:DS was being made by the same company And now after having compared DX:IW to T:DS it's hard to believe both these games were made by Ion Storm Kudos to the T:DS team for putting all the pieces together in such a fashion.
This is the Thief we've been waiting for. Go out and get it
71-hour Ahmed
05-28-2004, 18:31
thanks spino.
Damnit I cannot wait. I keep hearing how much it is like thief. Thx for the review http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif You made my life even harder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I want a europian release NOW
Me too Fragony
I see you're from the Netherlands aswell and not all that far away from where I live. I was wondering if you also have to wait until the 25th of June? That's the release date given by Dynabyte *Sigh*
A WHOLE friggin month after the North American release and some 2 weeks after UK's release. What the hell is that all about? I've seen other games being released on the same day or maybe a few days later then the UK for example. Why such a long waiting period? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
- Long time Thief fan.
frogbeastegg
05-29-2004, 10:36
The demo's out, I'm downloading it for a third time as I type. Anyone else had problems with it? I download the full 450MB, then all I get is a 93.5MB thief_demo setup.exe which won't do anything. Somehow I have also ended up with a file called t3_demo_uk which launches a DOS box, then does nothing. I can't even delete that file because it claims it is in use (it is not), I have no idea where it came from, the two files I downloaded were called thief_demo.exe and they were not zipped etc.
Frogbeastegg,
Where do/did you download it from?
I just downloaded the demo (thanks by the way for mentioning it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ) from Fileplanet.com and I got the whole package I think. It's some 430~440MB, but I still need to install it and I'm going to do that right now
Can't get the demo to run. I need windows xp bah. This makes me want to snap some necks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif Will anybody be getting it for x-box? I am considering it myselve, they are pretty cheap nowadays. It would also make an end to the' *visits friend* hi just wanted to say hi *pause* can I play ninja gaiden?' routine http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Gah
I downloaded a corrupted Thief 3 demo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
I did get it started though, but it CTD'd somewhere right in the beginning of the mission.
I'll just have to download it another time again.
It does really seem to have this Thief atmosphere so far
Too bad that the briefing wasn't spoken by Garret http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
PS. Spino, I had no problem whatsoever mapping the keys.
frogbeastegg
05-29-2004, 15:29
The first two demo downloads came from Eidos themselves. The third, working, one came from 3d Gamers Netherlands mirror.
So far it's peachy, but I've only finished the tutorial and I've no time to play any more until this evening.
The briefings are narrated by Garrett, but there is a lag of a few seconds before he starts talking.
I had no problem remapping the keys, thank the Builder - the defaults are terrible
On the whole it is seeming promising, there are a few things I don't like (having to hold shift to add a walk modifer, rather than a run modifer, the menus, the way he barely moves if you strafe while crouched) but it has potential and I want to keep playing, unlike the DE2 demo which made me hate the game within 5 minutes of starting.
I will buy the PC version when it dawdles its way over here.
Frogbeastegg,
I guess it was just the corrupted demo I downloaded from Fileplanet.com which was the reason for me not hearing Garret speak. But now I've redownloaded the game from 3DGamers.com (also the NL mirror - nice downloadspeed btw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ) and it works Good to hear Garret's voice again Really gives the game a lot more darker atmosphere
Off to start the mission http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Edit:
Alright I've just played through the tutorial and am in the second level/second part. It looks very nice Although I do need to get me a new graphics card, but I'll have to wait for that until RTW has been released http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
My only gripe so far is the blueish glow around items etc selected. When I get the game and I can find a mod that either gets rid of the blueish glow or changes it to be light yellowish, I'll use it I just don't like that glow. I must say I don't really mind the loot glint, it isn't so bad actually.
All in all, so far it seems very Thief-like to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can't wait to get my scrubby medium-sized hands on the game
frogbeastegg
05-30-2004, 11:55
I've finished the demo, while there are some changes I don't like this is definitely on my 'to buy' list. I played on normal, and found it rather easy, at one point I stood in a bright lighting patch just a few feet away from a guard, he looked right at me and ignored me Generally though the AI is much better, I like they way they start to search for me when I shoot the lights out.
Does anyone else like playing with unconcious/dead bodies to see what kind of silly poses they will land in? Those ragdoll physics still aren't convincing, they never have been. Still, I can get some cheap laughs from the rubber people with broken spines who inhabit this game.
The blue glow is a bit of a pain, I can live with it, but I will hope someone can tone it down.
What do people think of lockpicking? It's easy when you get the hang of it, but I don't think it is worthy of the large fuss made about it. To read what some people were saying about it in previews you would expect something more than flicking your mouse in a circle until the ring shakes, then waiting a few seconds, before repeating for the other rings.
The little inner mission plots are back...Elizabeth and her diary, she's very cunning. I look forward to finding more of these plots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
Performance is perfect, not a single hiccough on the highest settings, but if there had been it would have been a repeat of DE2: utter system hog that hates good PCs. I will join the crowd of SoundBlaster Live owners crying about the lack of EAX.
Roll on June 11th...
make it..... stop First the dutch team gets gored by our authistic little brother belgium, and to make it even worse the demo won't run. I will tolerate no more thief praise untill me, myselve and I can play it, and I mean it. I will hunt you down and kill you if you do, may the rats eat your eyes when I am done with you. Calling me frustrated gets the same treatment, I am NOT frustrated. Really.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Citaat[/b] ]Posted by frogbeastegg:
I've finished the demo, while there are some changes I don't like this is definitely on my 'to buy' list.
Same here, although the things I don't like are very minimal and hardly worth bothering about to decide not to buy the game. I will most surely buy it
Citaat[/b] ]I played on normal, and found it rather easy, at one point I stood in a bright lighting patch just a few feet away from a guard, he looked right at me and ignored me
It isn't really hard in the demo yet for me either, but it's still only one, the first, mission. So I'm guessing it will become a bit harder when the game progresses.
Citaat[/b] ]Generally though the AI is much better, I like they way they start to search for me when I shoot the lights out.
Yeah those AI reactions are great
Also the voice casting is most amusing and at some times hilarious So far it seems very diverse.
The conversation between Lord Julian and the cook is for example a really nice touch and makes the game seem more alive
Citaat[/b] ]Does anyone else like playing with unconcious/dead bodies to see what kind of silly poses they will land in? Those ragdoll physics still aren't convincing, they never have been. Still, I can get some cheap laughs from the rubber people with broken spines who inhabit this game.
Somewhat done so.
By the way. Trying to lay down the bodies is sometimes frustrating since you can't just dump a body in a (narrow) spot, which is somewhat disappointing. You have to find a large enough area to get rid of the trash you're carrying (~;)).
Citaat[/b] ]What do people think of lockpicking? It's easy when you get the hang of it, but I don't think it is worthy of the large fuss made about it. To read what some people were saying about it in previews you would expect something more than flicking your mouse in a circle until the ring shakes, then waiting a few seconds, before repeating for the other rings.
I like it actually. It's visually nice to see and I like the fact it's abstract. It isn't really important for me to get a complex lockpicking system, so.
Citaat[/b] ]The little inner mission plots are back...Elizabeth and her diary, she's very cunning. I look forward to finding more of these plots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
Still haven't finished the demo, but this is good to hear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Citaat[/b] ]Performance is perfect, not a single hiccough on the highest settings, but if there had been it would have been a repeat of DE2: utter system hog that hates good PCs. I will join the crowd of SoundBlaster Live owners crying about the lack of EAX.
It runs okish on my computer. But I definitly need a new grahicscard Seeing as I'm so impressed at the moment I'm considering buying a new card sooner then I actually wanted. Maybe a good, new GeForce (FX5900 maybe) or an ATI Radeon (9800 256MB). I think that should actually suffice for Rome: Total War aswell. I read that some people said the graphics were ok, but I think they are already amazing The lighting and shadows for example... WOW The game just looks great
Citaat[/b] ]Roll on June 11th...
Roll on June 25th... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I have to find somewhere to get it earlier Alas I haven't got a creditcard and won't be able to get one for quite some time. I need to have a, how do you say it in English, permanent salary. I only have a temporary contract for the moment..
PS. Sorry Fragony http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Quote[/b] ([DnC] @ May 30 2004,06:55)]PS. Sorry Fragony http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
psssssst behind you
I should of course kill you for mocking my greatness, but I figured that living in Lelystad was punnishment enough. Do not let it happen again or Almere will be next. Dante was a wuss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
frogbeastegg
05-30-2004, 13:52
June 11th, the date was pushed forward http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Why won't the demo run Fragony? Your PC not good enough, or are you yet another victim of the many technical problems with this demo?
[DnC], I'm running the demo on a radeon 9800 pro, and it's perfect. I have seen some people reporting problems with FX chipsets and thief 3 over on TTLG forums (http://www.ttlg.com/), so you may want to poke about there before deciding.
I can't shed any light on the 'perminant contract' right now, the best I can think of is 'full time job' but that is more about the hours you work than your length of contract.
I don't mind easy, but I do mind the AI ignoring me in full lighting with only a few feet between us. I also don't like getting in a fight with a guard, and winning with more than half my health left when all I did was frantically attack with the dagger with no actual tactics or thought. Swordfighting was a real skill in Thief 1+2, but this dagger combat is crap. Maybe it is better when you are fighting in a location where you can see what you are doing, rather than in a pitch black staircase? I'll have to experiment...
Citaat[/b] ]Posted by Fragony:
psssssst behind you
I should of course kill you for mocking my greatness, but I figured that living in Lelystad was punnishment enough. Do not let it happen again or Almere will be next. Dante was a wuss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
It isn't that bad here.. We do have some good things.. At least I think we do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
Citaat[/b] ]Posted by frogbeastegg:
June 11th, the date was pushed forward http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Dynabyte (http://www.dynabyte.nl/) might not have updated there site yet then? I HOPE SO
It's a Dutch site, but as a foreigner you should easily be able to read the release date.
Here's a quote of the releasedate information:
Citaat[/b] ]Release verwacht: 25-06-2004
VOORINSCHRIJVINGSPRIJS 43,50
RELEASE 25 JUNI 2004
RESERVEER NU
GEEN KLANTENKAARTKORTING
PRIJS NA RELEASE WORDT 49,95
What you can't read is irrelevant anyways http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Citaat[/b] ][DnC], I'm running the demo on a radeon 9800 pro, and it's perfect. I have seen some people reporting problems with FX chipsets and thief 3 over on TTLG forums, so you may want to poke about there before deciding.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I thought I remembered exactly the opposite.
How much memory does your 9800 have? 256MB? I assume it supports the latest DirectX additions aswell (I heard, my GeForce 4200 Ti for example, doesn't support the latest DirectX functions, but I don't know which they are though)?
I am going to do a bit of research on graphics cards soon. Maybe even tonight.
Citaat[/b] ]I can't shed any light on the 'perminant contract' right now, the best I can think of is 'full time job' but that is more about the hours you work than your length of contract.
I might be able to rephrase it a little better.
Here in Holland you need a regular income (e.g. monthly) before you can aquire a creditcard. I don't know how long a contract has to last before you have the right to a creditcard (and how much regular income is needed). Maybe having a jobcontract for at least a year long?
It might have sounded a little vague aswell considering I didn't mention that internetshops need a creditcard number or something if you want to order and have it delivered Thief 3 for example. These shops that already do have the game are mostlikely from overseas.
That's why I mentioned this.
I now have to go to a shop to buy a game. And the local shops here mostlikely will get the game a little later, meaning I have to wait longer.
I hope you understand it a little better now?
Citaat[/b] ]I don't mind easy, but I do mind the AI ignoring me in full lighting with only a few feet between us. I also don't like getting in a fight with a guard, and winning with more than half my health left when all I did was frantically attack with the dagger with no actual tactics or thought. Swordfighting was a real skill in Thief 1+2, but this dagger combat is crap.
You should really notch up the difficulty a bit The higher the difficulty, the more damage you take, the more loot you need to gather (as in the previous games), the more cautiously you need to go about (E.g. no killing of innocents. By the way, I read that they've taken out the difficulty enhancer of not killing anyone ala the police station mission in Thief 2) and more things.
Garret does seem to be somewhat stronger then it's predecessors, but not overpowered. The more guards, the more you're screwed, even on the easier difficulty, I think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I also think the guards and others will see you much easier the higher the difficulty. I'm playing on Hard myself and they do seem to notice me the more I become visible. Although they did not seem (didn't really experiment) to be able to see me crawling/walking/running from a far in bright places. Maybe you can justify that by them thinking you're a guard or anyone else who can be there. They just see a shape, but not clearly enough to see whom it is.
Citaat[/b] ]Maybe it is better when you are fighting in a location where you can see what you are doing, rather than in a pitch black staircase? I'll have to experiment...
Could you rephrase this part or elaborate? I don't really understand what you mean with this.
Something else;
At the official Thief fora, at least I think they are the official ones, there was also discussion about not liking the dagger and wanting the sword back. I myself like the dagger, it just seems more fitting for a thief, but for nostalgia reasons seeing the sword coming back is also nice. What are you people's thoughts about this?
Also at first when reading up about the game my only two gripes were non-swimmable water and no Rope Arrows, but I haven't missed them so far.
Water also provided another alternative going about, which was nice. I can now do without it seeing how the game looks, although I might be judging way to soon.
I would have liked seeing Rope Arrows in the game, but I can live with the gloves (wondering how it will be using those thingymajingies).
PS. I keep on editing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
Edit: I've looked at another site of a local shop around here and it gives the exact same releasedate. Gah
frogbeastegg
05-30-2004, 16:13
Check the release date on the Eidos (http://www.eidos.co.uk/) website, and rejoice Amazon.co.uk still have the old release date too, but surely the publisher knows what they are talking about, even if Eidos aren't the sharpest of knives.
My radeon reports it has 128MB of onboard DDR memory. It is DirectX9 compliant, and needs DX9 to get decent performance. It has all those bells and whistles like bump mapping etc, I haven't met an effect it can't do yet. The only game that has worked less than perfectly on full settings is the DE2 demo, but that is the fault of the game. It is right near the top of the line.
For credit cards in the UK the only requirement is a minimum income of a certain amount per month, and you get extremely generous credit limits. That is probably why we have such a big problem with credit card debt right now...
I left the difficulty on the default normal because I remember (and like) the way in the old thief games you essentially get three different experiences if you play each level on all the difficulties. I think I might ramp thief 3 straight up to expert. Even on normal in thief 1 the guards weren't as blind as this, I suspect they have made thief 3 easier on the whole so old taffers will need to go to higher difficulties to get a challenge.
The bit about the dagger: I ended up fighting a guard on that big spiral staircase that leads into Elizabeth's bedroom. I had put out the nearby torch, but the guard trod on me while searching for suspicious taffers, and so we ended up fighting. It was so dark, and I had to get so close to be in range with the dagger that all I could see was a big face and this strange black polygon thing (my arm, probably) jerking about. I couldn't see any of the attacks, just strange shapes leaping about randomly. In the older thief games you could see, and therefore anticipate and dodge, attacks. Here I couldn't even see my own attacks, let alone the guard's. All I could do was mash attack as quickly as possible and hope I was hitting the guard.
I don't really mind the absence of rope arrows, the absence of water depends on the levels, castles and manors don't need swimming as much as docks or other watery areas. The sword, well a dagger is a thief's tool, but I liked the way sword fighting used to work. Maybe it is just my bad experience with the dagger, as outlined above.
:looks at clock: another 4 hours until it begins to get dark, and I can play the demo again on expert…
I hope you're right about the releasedate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Although the releasedate is from the UK site.
The ATI Radeon 9800 does seem to be a likely candidate to be bought.
Preferably I'll buy the one with 256MB, but have to read a review first to see whether it's actually worthwhile.
Hmm.. I suppose it could be the same here with credit cards then. I'm not quite sure how the rules really are.
Heh. Good point about that
I think I'll play through Hard the first time and Expert the second.
One thing I've always liked about Thief is the ability to reset the difficulty of your choosing to whichever you want before the start of a mission
I was able to hit from a good enough distance with the dagger. Can't remember how far the sword in Thief 1 & 2 reaches. A dagger also shouldn't really be used in a frontal attack, unless you have one big friggin' shield to get in close enough striking distance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Then again being agile and speedy is another option.. But you had to be agile and speedy with the sword in Thief 1 & 2 aswell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
*Remembers the times of 3 or more guards running after him with large swords and/or hammers*
By the way, you could always use hit and run tactics. Move forward and strike, go backwards and repeat. So on harder difficulties I still think there is some skill required. Nonetheless I think Garret should be able to hold his own against one guard, but it should still be tough in a frontal melee where both are able to ditch out attacks simultaneously.
So you want to play it in the utmost of darkness eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cool.gif
Have fun
Back to Thief 3 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Just a little update since my last post. It seems my Radeon 9700 & Athlon XP 2400+ equipped system is unable to play T:DS with satisfactory framerates at 1280x1024 or higher. After playing further I've discovered that 1024x768 is the highest resolution I can run T:DS at and enjoy consistently smooth framerates (the biggest offenders are rooms/areas with large numbers of lights). Given my genuine hatred of obvious jagged lines and the poor quality of the game's 'multisampling' anti-aliasing alternative I'm now considering putting T:DS on the shelf until my next upgrade (late Fall)... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Since light sources seem to be the biggest killer of framerate methinks a hefty processor upgrade is the best upgrade you can make for T:DS (unless of course, your 3D card is very old).
Sorry for the offtopic:
Frogbeastegg,
I bought the one you got, buuttt when I received the card I noticed a line that said 128-bit edition and upon further investigation found out that they cut the core-memory in half because they lowered the price. Well the store I bought it from (online order) didn't have a product description, but it did have a link to Sapphire's site. I proceeded to read the specifications there and it didn't state anywhere in the specifications that there was a 128-bit edition, thus I was not aware of this and thought all was fine and dandy and I was gonna get what I read. So now I've bought a graphics card under false pretenses (right word?) and tomorrow will phone the store about it and possibly getting a 256-bit version (if they still have it) in return or my money back. Unless they come up with a nice offer to keep my as their customer, but I might hear about that later.
PS. I've read in a review that the 128-bit edition is drastically slower with certain things then it's 256-bit cousin.
Gah *Me calls upon Vanya to cut off storepeople's heads*
PPS. I certainly hope I will get a new card in time before I get Thief 3. That's the most important reason why I upgraded
frogbeastegg
06-04-2004, 20:25
[DnC], what a shame. I hope you manage to sort it out without too much hassle.
I finished the demo on expert, it wasn't much harder except for the extra guards and loot requirements, and they were simple enough to handle. I did like the increased damage in a fight though, but I may tweak that so they gaurds hit even harder when I get the full game. I don't want to survive going toe to toe with an armour wearing, sword wielding thug when all I have is a dagger I swing wildly. This level must feature extra dumb guards, I can't be that good at the game
One week to go...
Anyone read this (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84368) (
Ya was bout to post that, you beat me to it. I pity the US x-box buyers, I hope they fix this in the european release. This is more of a flaw rather then a bug, how could the testers have missed this, they didn't notice that the guards didn't react to shadows anymore? They didn't notice the evidence system not working?
frogbeastegg
06-07-2004, 16:39
I didn't reload on my expert demo run, and it was still really easy, the only major difference was increased damage. Hmmm
Looks like I'll be playing the game on normal then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/geishatongue.gif
I saw another thread (can't be bothered to find it to link to) which claimed expert difficulty got a lot harder when you finished the game and started to go through it again. Maybe on subsequent playthroughs the difficulty setting is retained?
Apparently when you save and reload, or leave a loadzone and return, it is reset to normal, the AI gets mighty stupid and does less dammage. Call me a *peep* but I am not buying this one if this isn't fixed, I need to buy a x-box to play it. Plenty of fanmissions I have yet to play http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
You were right about the releasedates froggy
Tomorrow Thief: Deadly Shadows can be bought at Dynabyte, which is a shop in my hometown.
At least that what it said this morning on thier site and now, in the evening, it's already updated as to buy. To bad I won't be able to purchase the game tomorrow, but saturday at it's earliest.
PS. Today I didn't receive CK & EU2 because noone was home at the time of delivery.. So it's good news to hear Thief 3 will be out tomorrow
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ June 07 2004,11:55)]Call me a *peep* but I am not buying this one if this isn't fixed, I need to buy a x-box to play it. Plenty of fanmissions I have yet to play http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
He's full of it.
I couldn't resist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif (glad I did, it is awesome)
Lol Fragony http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Luckily I still had some time yesterday to buy the game.
The shop was only open for some ten more minutes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The game looks and plays pretty darn awesome, except that I became a little disorientated finding my way in The City.. But that's because I might have read the map wrongly.
Anyways in The City I had an odd encounter, it might even be a bug; I suddenly saw two guys trying to kill an old man and eventhough they were the obvious suspects (running after him screaming about killing him in lit up places), I when walking amongst some citizens also became a suspect http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif That's rather stupid and annoying... I truly hope it's a bug and it will get fixed in the coming patch.
Anyways that odd encounter was one bloody massacre
frogbeastegg
06-12-2004, 14:00
Quote[/b] ([DnC] @ June 12 2004,12:57)]Anyways that odd encounter was one bloody massacre
I will assume you mean that as a massacre with a lot of blood, rather than a swearing massacre...
[removes mod hat]
I got it yesterday; I'm rather annoyed it was DVD only as my DVD drive is a lot noisier than my CD drive, but so far the disc is barely accessed so that's alright. I have played for an hour and a half; I just finished the first mission and am about to go out into the city for the first time. I can only play after dark because of the nice summer sun making it impossible to see, that gives me a maximum of 2 hours a day to play.
I'm playing on normal difficulty since expert is broken, and so far it is a little harder than the demo...only a little. I will call this a flavour game, where I pick up the conversations and so on then come back when expert is working and play for challenge then.
Those ragdoll physics are freakish The people act as though they are made from rubber, if I could find a decent way to take screenshots I'd start a collection of strange poses for the screnshot thread.
Still don't like the dagger, so I ignore its existance. It lends a more thiefy atmosphere anyway, as getting caught with nowhere to run is death.
Indeed a massacre with lots of dead bodies.
Those ragdoll physics could need some tweaking. E.g. when you hit them from behind they usually fall with their stomach forwards and legs and head backwards http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Although these physics can be quite funny sometimes
So far I've seen you'll not need to use your dagger, just as you can avoid having to knock down just about anyone I have to admit that I have knocked down three people (out of some 100?), but they didn't really needed to be knocked down, I just did it. One was accidental (in the previous thief games I had a habbit of knocking everybody down) and the other two could have easily been avoided, but I couldn't bother walking back to get around through another way.
The graphics do really amaze me The first screenshots brought out on the net (I think - I saw them on gamespot.com) seemed to look as if they were using the old Thief 2 engine, but now that the final product has been released I was truly surprised to see such awesome eye-candy Good to also have read some people stating the game not to be really good looking, this made me all the more happy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now I only need that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro card (which should be arriving tuesday next week - I don't think it will come today anymore) and then I'm fully set... waaaiiiit... I also need that new patch in the works and THEN I am set http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Hopefully monday I'll also have CK + EU2 and then I'll be satisfied untill RTW is released... I think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Been playing for a long time now, and I hate to say it but Thief has been dumbed down a lot. It is too gimmickry and forced in design, and the AI is a huge step back. They are so easy to shake, run 5 meter, hug the wall and everything is forgiven. At the cathedral I shot a hammerite with his buddy standing next to him (why am I allowed to kill when I am playing on expert?), he looked for 10 seconds, 'well back to work', and walks off geez. The evidence system is no more then saying 'it is gone' out loud what an achievement. If you shoot an arrow next to their head they don't react, if you shoot an arrow and they are standing right next to you,they don't hear it. Now throw a piece of bread 10 meters from them and that they DO hear. The wallhugging I dislike most, garret is supposed to hide in shaddows not disappear in shadows. If they bump right into you they don't see you, even on expert. And then the bow and dagger, why don't they make you more visable like in the previous games? And why oh why did Eidos push the release in europe while they knew there was a major flaw in it(calling it a bug is a bit too kind)? Not going to buy an Eidos game anymore, and that doesn't mean I won't play them, these guys deserve to be pirated. This all sounds very bitter, I do actually enjoy the game but for everything done right there is something done wrong.
Patch is out
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85258
I bought Thief Deadly Shadows for xbox (US version) but for some reason it wont save at all... I go into the save menu and hit create a new save and it goes into the blue screen and says saving... and there it remains hours later
I think the xbox just freezes at that point - I dont know if this happens to all xbox games, I asked the guys at EB and they said they didnt hear any problem about it so I guess its just my luck huh
in the game I did get to the third level and enjoyed it immensely, even though I did get sick of the first two levels after repeating them 5 times.
I would say give the game a try its alot of fun, I dont know how close it resembles the other games because I never played them but its worth a shot
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