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The Blind King of Bohemia
06-09-2004, 13:05
With all the subtle hints going around I felt it was time to spill the beans. Maybe my boss DJ can make this thread a sticky?

I'm pleased to announce my next project, which currently features the working title of 'Eastern Promise'. It centres around a map, devotedly created to resemble the current map. The top left of it is the bottom right corner of the current map, from Hungary to Syria. Yet that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will reach as far across as modern day Turkestan (near Samarkand), down to mid-India (Goa) and then all the way back across to central Africa in Darfur. There will be 4 periods:

Early - set around 1099, the time of the First Crusade.

High - set around 1220, when Genghis Khan and the Mongols enter the equation.

Late - set around 1360, when Timur began his expansion.

Twilight - 1453 to 1568, the time of the rise of the Ottoman Empire.

A massive undertaking as you can see, and one that I'm gonna need some help with I've asked the likes of Cebei for historical info and Turbo for modding experience. However, I feel I'm really gonna need a unit designer. Flip and Duke John spring to mind, but they seem very busy at the minute with their own projects. I think I'll only need about 2 or 3, so we'll have to wait and see. I will now proceed to answer your questions:

So what stage is the mod at?

Well, the map is about 2/3 complete. As is the way when creating a map similar to the original one (ask DJ), it takes an age to complete. I may post work in progress shots if demand is high enough. Apart from that, nothing has been done. As you can see, it's in its very early stages, and that is why I was sceptical about revealing all at such an early stage.

So what positions are available?

Well, I'm not really used to working with others, which is why I want to limit the modding side of things to me, (hopefully) Turbo and if we're lucky, a unit model designer. Historical info wise, I think Cebei can really help me as far as Turkey, Asia Minor et al go, and I have plenty of books about the Mongols and Tartars, but Africa, from Egypt down is the difficult one. Any names, unit info and titles for the likes of Darfur and Ethiopia would be great.

So what will this mod feature?

Well, if everything goes to plan, it should feature:

* A brand new map covering Eastern Europe, Southern Russia, North to Central Africa, the Middle East, Khazar and India.
* 4 periods of play, beginning in 1099 and ending in 1568 (not final)
* The full quota of factions (30) in each period
* New trade goods
* A ton of new units, and hopefully brand new models
* New agents
* New religions, namely Hindu and Christian (can religions be added? I'm sure we could replace Heretic with Hindu and African Christianity could either be Pagan or Catholic if worse comes to worse)
* New Buildings (I'm thinking Hindu religious ones, maybe Elephant keepers and whatnot)
* Historial heroes and maybe Kings
* New names, plus new faction and regional titles
* New portraits (I'm thinking black people, maybe Muslim princesses, and certainly Indian portraits)
* Flip's Elephants (We have permission)

So when can we expect to play it?

Someone's selfish aren't they?? If we say a vague two months then lets look to get a BETA out by then. But I really want it finished by Rome's release

But BKB how could you? You haven't even finished Super Late What about the loyal Super Mod fans? How could you betray us?

Whoa calm down Super Late's on the backburner till I finish the map. A week's devoted attention to it should do the job. I'll then decide whether or not to do a final release with homeland goals and other stuff or press ahead with the new mod. Eastern Promise is on a far bigger scale and I'll need all your support.


So there you have it. Any questions, unit ideas (which I'm always open to), research (including pictures) or discussion can be posted here. Hell, most of you will probably hate the name of the mod - if you don't like it, I'm open to suggestions Now I'm off to finish off the Caspian.
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Nomad
06-09-2004, 14:25
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This idea was/is at the top of my wishlist, particularly since my rescent visits to India, Nepal and Thailand. A Timurid army would Kick ass. Will there be room for the Yaun Chinese. Be cool to have fire lances and those multiple rocket launchers.
Also looking forward to the Song, Sahel, Ghanians and Sudanese etc. All the army list are available on the DBA website plus all the illustrations for new unit icons, which you've probably already got. If not I'll be glad to go get em. Not sure if HTW has any other transferable units or if some of the STW units could be edited a bit. (i.e get rid of the banners/flags(Cant remember their name in Japanese)on there backs). The Burnous stuff is of course ideal but it would be better with totaly new bif's. Hope some of the animators jump on this mod, coz the idea rocks.
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The Blind King of Bohemia
06-09-2004, 14:32
The Sudanese will be in, but I'm not too sure about the other African states - Darfur looks likely though. Ghana no as that's on the West coast. Ethiopians definitely, but if I'm honest I don't know a great deal about the Africa in this period.

With the Europeans still featuring, and various Catholic states (Papacy, Hospitallers, Crusaders) there won't be a great deal of room to play around with as far as the BIFs go. Still, I'll look for ways around it.

China we'll have to see about. A tiny part of it might just make it onto the map, but whether or not they'd be a certifiable faction is questionable.

And unfortunately invasions are impossible to do (as far as I'm aware), hence the periods starting when they do.

Nomad
06-09-2004, 15:15
. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I suppose the Yaun Chinese where a Mongol Dynasty, thus any Chinese province could be part of the Mongol Khanate (depending on the Date). So A Chinese province would perhaps produce a few unique units but not be independant. My knowledge of Ethiopia and Africa is also failry limited. I remember a little about Ethiopia's King Lali Bella, that they had some good knights and that they resisted the Muslim expansion. But that was alot down to Ethiopia's geography. I'll see what else I can dig up.
Ok, later Dude.
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p.s Didn't read your original post thoroughly. The Song and Sahel are probably both a bit western african for your need's

Duke Dick
06-09-2004, 17:28
so the secrets finally out. hopefully, all the aid you need will be given to you, its hard to see why it wouldnt be, especially as certain modders, like wesw, get all the help they need.

Myrddraal
06-09-2004, 19:36
Whereas others don't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Any unit graphics designers out there.. please

Sorry, that was a bit off topic.

All I can say is that this mod is bound to be a success, seeing as it was started by BKB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Julius Caesar
06-09-2004, 22:04
This sounds like a good idea brand new map, new units. Wish i could help though but i have school..

Steppe Merc
06-09-2004, 22:42
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Wow. Very cool. Can't wait for it to come out, and give it a whirl. Any chance any of the units from this can go into the Mongols in your Super Mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-09-2004, 23:12
Theres every chance but we will have to see. Bloody Unit space and all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

DeadRunner
06-10-2004, 03:33
Nice project Bkb
another mod to play

Nomad
06-10-2004, 09:12
A little overview of Medieval Mughal India:-

Medieval India
The period following the death of Harsha is known as the Rajput period. The word Rajput connotes the scion of a royal family and these princes claimed descent from the sun or the moon. This was an era of chivalry and feudalism. Family feuds and strong notions of personal pride often exacerbated conflicts. The Rajputs weakened each other by constant fighting. This allowed the foreigners (Turks) to embark on victorious campaigns using duplicity and deceit wherever military strength failed against Rajputs.

One of them, Mohammad Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan, the Tomar ruler of Delhi, at the battle of Tarain in 1192 and left the Indian territories in the charge of his deputy, Qutubudin (reign - 1206 - 1210), who had started life as a slave. This is the reason that the dynasty founded by him is known as the Slave Dynasty. It is he who built the towering Qutub Minar in Delhi. Raziya (reign - 1236 - 1239), the daughter of his successor Iltutmish (reign - 1210 - 1236), was quite an exception for that age. She sat on the throne of Delhi for a short while. Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Sayyids and Lodis followed in the footsteps of the 'Slaves'. This period is known as the Sultanate. Only a few rulers distinguished themselves in statecraft. Allauddin Khilji (reign - 1296 - 1316) was not only a distinguished commander but also an able administrator. He is remembered for his military campaign in the south as well as market reforms and price control measures. Muhammad Tughlaq (reign - 1324 - 1351) was a visionary who had the misfortune of being misunderstood by almost everyone who came in his contact. Modern historians, however, have judged him more sympathetically. Once derided for his whimsical decisions - he once ordered the imperial capital to be shifted to Daulatabad in the Deccan as the site was more central - he is now given credit for his unusual 'vision'. Lodis were, by comparison, quite mild and are only recalled when one is in the vicinity of the majestic Lodi tombs set in beautifully landscaped gardens. The Sultanate introduced, in the sub continent, the Islamic concepts of society and governance, and thus prepared the ground for a scintillating encounter between two important world civilisations.

When the power of the Sultans declined, the outlying provinces once again became important and the process of Hindu Islamic synthesis continued almost without any interruption.

Much before the expulsion of the last Lodi ruler from Delhi by Babur the lustre of the Sultanate had dulled. Babur (reign - 1526-30), the founder of the Mughal Empire in India, was a descendant of Timur as well as Changez Khan. Ousted by his cousins from the small principality in Central Asia that he had inherited, he came to India and defeated Ibrahim, the last Lodi Sultan in 1526 at the First Battle of Panipat. There was a brief interruption to Mughal rule when Babur's son Humayun (reign - 1530-40) was ousted from Delhi, by Sher Shah, an Afghan chieftain.

Sher Shah (reign - 1540-55), assumed power in the imperial capital for a short while. He is remembered as the builder of the Grand Trunk road that spanned the distance from Peshawar to Patna and also one who introduced major reforms in the revenue system, gratefully retained by the Mughals.

It was Babur's grandson Akbar (reign - 1556-1605), who consolidated political power and extended his empire over practically the whole of north India and parts of the south. Akbar realized that if the empire was to attain stability, it must grow roots in the native soil, and that it should seek support from the local ruling groups.

Just some basics, You've probabaly already got this info BKB. Found alot more stuff, just sifting through it.
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Nomad
06-10-2004, 09:46
And a bit more
India
Southern Dynasties
The sultans' failure to hold securely the Deccan and South India resulted in the rise of competing southern dynasties: the Muslim Bahmani Sultanate (1347-1527) and the Hindu Vijayanagar Empire (1336-1565). Zafar Khan, a former provincial governor under the Tughluqs, revolted against his Turkic overlord and proclaimed himself sultan, taking the title Ala-ud-Din Bahman Shah in 1347. The Bahmani Sultanate, located in the northern Deccan, lasted for almost two centuries, until it fragmented into five smaller states in 1527. The Bahmani Sultanate adopted the patterns established by the Delhi overlords in tax collection and administration, but its downfall was caused in large measure by the competition and hatred between deccani (domiciled Muslim immigrants and local converts) and paradesi (foreigners or officials in temporary service). The Bahmani Sultanate initiated a process of cultural synthesis visible in Hyderabad, where cultural flowering is still expressed in vigorous schools of deccani architecture and painting.

Founded in 1336, the empire of Vijayanagar (named for its capital Vijayanagar, City of Victory, in present-day Karnataka) expanded rapidly toward Madurai in the south and Goa in the west and exerted intermittent control over the east coast and the extreme southwest. Vijayanagar rulers closely followed Chola precedents, especially in collecting agricultural and trade revenues, in giving encouragement to commercial guilds, and in honoring temples with lavish endowments. Added revenue needed for waging war against the Bahmani sultans was raised by introducing a set of taxes on commercial enterprises, professions, and industries. Political rivalry between the Bahmani and the Vijayanagar rulers involved control over the Krishna-Tunghabadhra river basin, which shifted hands depending on whose military was superior at any given time. The Vijayanagar rulers' capacity for gaining victory over their enemies was contingent on ensuring a constant supply of horses--initially through Arab traders but later through the Portuguese--and maintaining internal roads and communication networks. Merchant guilds enjoyed a wide sphere of operation and were able to offset the power of landlords and Brahmans in court politics. Commerce and shipping eventually passed largely into the hands of foreigners, and special facilities and tax concessions were provided for them by the ruler. Arabs and Portuguese competed for influence and control of west coast ports, and, in 1510, Goa passed into Portuguese possession
Ok thats enough block copying for now.
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p.s Both Muslim and non muslim were using steel composite bows and had been since the early 1st millenium AD.

Nomad
06-10-2004, 10:00
medindia (http://sify.com/itihaas/imagegallery.php?cid=13380661&type=Medieval%20%20India)


Maps for Medieval India
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The Blind King of Bohemia
06-10-2004, 10:22
Thanks for that info Nomad, much appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Nomad
06-10-2004, 10:35
Some rulers of Indraprastha

5 generations of Prathviraj ruled for 86 years, 0 month and 20 days as
follows:
years months days (length of reign)
1 Prathviraj 12 2 19
2 Abhayapal 14 5 17
3 Durjanpal 11 4 14
4 Udayapal 11 7 3
5 Yashpal 36 4 27

Sultan Shahbuddin Gauri from Garh Gazni attacked raja Yashpal and imprisoned him in the fort of Prayaag in Vikram Sanvat 1249 (1193 AD). 53 Gauri generations, ruled for 745 years, 1 Month and 17.
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Nomad
06-10-2004, 10:41
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 10 2004,11:22)]Thanks for that info Nomad, much appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif My pleasure m8.

Nomad
06-10-2004, 10:49
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Good info on Medieval India (http://www.webindia123.com/history/MEDIEVAL/index.htm)
This expands upon what I've already posted. Lots of info here.

Nomad
06-10-2004, 11:07
And heres some stuff on Ethiopia as I promosed. A list of its King's or Negi (Negus being the singular) and a little general info.
1 Yekuno Amlak 1268
2 Yagbe'a Seyon 1285
3 Senfa Ar'ed 1294
4 Hezba Asgad 1295
5 Kedma Asgad 1296
6 Jin Asgad 1297
7 Saba Asgad 1298
8 Wedem Ar'ed 1299
9 'Amda Seyon I 1314
10 Newaya Krestos 1344
11 Newaya Maryam 1372
12 Dawit I 1382
13 Tewodros I 1411
14 Yeshak 1414
15 Endreyas 1429
16 Takla Maryam 1430
17 Sarwe Iyasus 1433
18 'Amda Iyasus 1433
19 Zara Ya'kob Constantine 1434
20 Ba'eda Maryam I 1468
21 Eskandar 1478
22 'Amda Seyon II 1494
23 Na'od 1494
24 Lebna Dengel Dawit II 1508
25 Galawdewos 1540
26 Minas 1559
27 Sarsa Dengel 1563
28 Yakob (1st reign) 1597
29 Za Dengel 1603
Ya'kob (2nd reign) 1604

The Ethiopian culture we know today may be said to date from between the ninth and eleventh centuries, coinciding with Axum's political decline. Judaism and Islam grew to be powerful forces in Ethiopia. The Felasha (Jewish) queen Yodit, daughter of the quasi-legendary Gideon, led a destructive expedition against Axum around 980.
It is believed that following Yodit's death, a Christian king, Anbessa Wudim, returned to Axum to restore Christian control. The Zagwe dynasty, first based in Lasta, emerged around this time. Many of Ethiopia's rock churches at Roha (now Lalibela) date from the reign of the Zagwe king Lalibela. A number of fortresses were also erected during this era.
King Yekuno Amlak ascended the throne in 1270. His origins are uncertain. The Kebre Negest (The Glory of the Kings), one of Ethiopia's most important histories, describes his line's Solomonic descent. The story of Prester John, a legendary Christian ruler of Ethiopia, added luster to the Solomonic monarchs' rule.
In the fourteenth century, Emperor Amda Siyon made a serious effort at expansion, annexing territories and consolidating these into an Ethiopia which more or less conformed to the boundaries of today. To do so, he suppressed ethnic movements and firmly established Ethiopia as an Amharic and Christian nation. He granted a form of autonomy to regional rulers as his feudal vassals with authority over gults, or fiefs, and accommodated Islam.
Zara Yakob, born in 1434, was one of Ethiopia's most remarkable rulers. Renowned for his intelligence, he further developed what had already become two fundamental institutions of the Ethiopian state --Christianity and feudalism. He also instituted a new capital, at Debre Birhan in northern Shewa. Zara Yakob expanded his realm into Eritrea and established tenuous diplomatic ties with several European monarchs.
What followed was a succession of lesser rulers who were forced to contend with Muslim incursions and foreign influences
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The Blind King of Bohemia
06-10-2004, 11:56
Great info about africa there, which is where i've been having the most trouble info wise.

Nomad
06-10-2004, 13:43
A few recources and provinces for N East Africa

I Think alot of info on African History has been surpressed through colonialism etc. The Christian Kingdoms of the Funj empire (main cities Napata, Soba and Sennar) should emerge in the 15th. Makurra, Alwa, Agau,and Axum were all important regions as was Nubia but Nubia is obviously Ayyubid or Mameluk depending on Date. Of course Darfur itself is very important in this equation. Think Adal will just be of your map south of Ethiopia. Salt was one of the main exports from Axum and Adal. Agau (south Ethiopia) was important for gold, slaves and Musk.
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p.s Forgot to Mention the Nilotes and Nilotic Sudan not a territory as such, rather the dominant tribal/ethnic group in Christian NE africa.

Steppe Merc
06-10-2004, 22:15
You probably know this, but I find Osprey's books very good for info + pictures.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-10-2004, 22:22
Yep. Got Mughul India and Armies of the Muslim Conquest today. Gonna get Armies of the Caliphates soon and might get some Essential Histories soon too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Steppe Merc
06-10-2004, 23:26
Essentials are good, but no pretty pictures. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

alman9898
06-11-2004, 21:20
sounds like a cool mod. good luck and I hope you're able to get it out before rome

Earl of Sandwich
06-12-2004, 17:20
here is a model of a Timurid Infantryman (http://www.pegasomodels.com/details_en.asp?code=75-005)

roysparky
06-13-2004, 16:04
Sounds good BKB.

Earl of Sandwich
06-13-2004, 16:12
Here, I have information on
Kharazmian shahs (http://www.friesian.com/islam.htm#khwarazm) and Ethopian rulers (http://www.friesian.com/ethiopia.htm)

This website, by the way, has a wealth of information about all sorts of rulers.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-13-2004, 17:15
Great, great info there thanks LOS

DeadRunner
06-13-2004, 19:16
when we have the pleassure to play this mod m8 ??
will these mod been released like the super Bkb ??first eraly ,and bla bla

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-13-2004, 23:04
Nah I think I'd prefer to release this as one big mod. See my first post for a tentative release date. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

DeadRunner
06-14-2004, 12:40
one big released .
hmmmm
many hours of fun in pc are passing in front of my eyes

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Steppe Merc
06-14-2004, 20:16
BKB, what will you do about the portraits? Probably the last thing on your mind now, but the existing portraits suck for most of the factions, and will not be able to cover the wide range of ethnicities in your mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif

King Azzole
06-17-2004, 16:40
Portraits are easy to find with a quick google. Just takes a little time and effort to get them into the game but no biggie.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-17-2004, 21:33
Some good news boys. Well some news anyway. After extensive planning and research, i have decided on all the provinces and now press ahead to finishing the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

DeadRunner
06-17-2004, 21:39
Nice m8

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-18-2004, 05:36
Dude, China really needs to be on the map. I can tell ya right now, that once they reached India, China would definately be on thier target list. All the tales about Cathay, (medieval name for China) They would have been nuts to trade there, and even more nuts to control part of there I strongly suggest you add part of China, if not the whole thing. Or at LEAST give us some Chinese units m8. Hell by the 1300's Europeans were already talking about conquering the fabled land of Kingdom of Japan for Christendom

I still love this idea and will dl the minute it's out,

Sword

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-18-2004, 12:37
The map ends on the western most part of Mongolia. I would love to have china in but the room for provinces has proved a real bugger at times.

The Wizard
06-18-2004, 13:12
Seljuq (http://www.allempires.com/empires/seljuk/seljuk1.htm)

Safavids (http://www.iranchamber.com/history/safavids/safavids.php)

Ismailieh (Hashshashin) (http://www.iranchamber.com/history/ismailieh/ismailieh.php)

Unfortunately, the Muslim kingdoms that populated Iran do not have an army article, and the Turkic rulers of the land, so important to the Muslim world (especially when the Seljuq arrived), are mentioned in three paragraphs. Sigh. I guess Persians despise the Turks. Really not needed. :\

Hope this helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Edit:: Whoops, 1099-1550... so no Samanids or Saffarids needed.



~Wiz

The Wizard
06-18-2004, 13:27
Ghaznavid Rulers (http://family-of-man.com/CatalogEnglish/Asia/Central_Asia/ghaznavid_emirate.html)

Ghaznavid History (http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/ghaznavid.html) (Don't mind the Pakistan bit - their capital was Ghazna, believed to be somewhere in Pakistan, very near the modern Afghan border, in the eastern reaches of the Hindu Kush)

Can't find anything on their armies as of yet...



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-18-2004, 13:29
Thanks for all that info there wizard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Wizard
06-18-2004, 13:37
The Islamic World to 1600 (http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/index2.html)

Just about says it all.

I suppose you're going to use your Osprey collection to make up for the internet's lack of military information?



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

King Azzole
06-18-2004, 15:51
Man you guys are giving alot of help and info to BKB This community kicks ass Good job guys

The Wizard
06-18-2004, 23:43
Eastern history is by far my favorite historical subject http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif



~Wiz

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-19-2004, 03:11
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 18 2004,06:37)]The map ends on the western most part of Mongolia. I would love to have China in but the room for provinces has proved a real bugger at times.
Mongolia eh? Can I please see where your sticking Mongolia? In this new book on the Mongols, that I bought it says that Medieval Mongolia was located closer to the Moddle East, and that the area that is now known as Mongolia, was then a part of China.

EDIT: Off Topic: How do I get the thing in my sig to appear as an image instead of a link?

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-19-2004, 12:28
Here is the province list of the far east part of the map:

Eastern steppe(sahara like province, quite huge)
Otrar
Khojend
Kashgar
Khotan
Lahore
Dehli
Malwa
Deogir



I can't really split these up any more as i've reached the limit in province space. I'd love to but other areas seem to need more attention http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

DeadRunner
06-19-2004, 12:32
if we kill someone the mod is get out more faster ???

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-19-2004, 12:33
I doubt it mate, maybe my boss at work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Steppe Merc
06-19-2004, 15:51
When you say Sahara like region, can we still control it?

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-19-2004, 16:10
of course mate. The point of having the big sparse areas at the north east of the map is to encourage expansion to the west from the mongols, timurids, etc

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-19-2004, 21:08
Lol, actually I was wrong. Medieval Mongolia was actually located on the spot where present day Manchuria is located. Manchuria is lcated right between that are where Northern China and the Korean peninsula meet. So Mongolia was actually quite far into the far east m8. Hope this info has been useful.

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The Blind King of Bohemia
06-20-2004, 15:21
At the moment I'm thinking of carry over an idea from my Super Mod - each period having its own exclusive map. Not drastic differences, just a few new provinces here and there depending on the focus for the period. For example, I wanted Albania primarily for it to house an Albanian faction in Twilight but is it really needed in the first three periods? In Early there could be more Holy Land provinces, in High more Steppe provinces, in Late more Asian provinces and Twilight more Balkan/Turkish provinces to match the theme of the period. It will be a lot of work but would definitely provide more variety. Any thoughts?

Steppe Merc
06-20-2004, 15:52
Not a bad idea, except for the fact it'll delay the release. I'd rather have this sooner with one map, then wait. Of course, you could release it in incremints like the Super Mod.

tombom
06-20-2004, 17:25
Please don't do separate maps Think about the poor people without broadband who would have to spend 6+ hours downloading it Of course, it would be worth it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-20-2004, 18:34
umm... buddy, just do what i do, shen you go to bed, leave the internet on all night, and when you wake up, it's done. As for seperate maps, BKB, I think that is an absolutely awesome idea, and you definately have my support. So how far along are you with units and the like?

Off Topic: BKB, is your super mod a self install? I'm not very good with manually placing files everywhere...

tombom
06-20-2004, 18:58
I know I can do that SoCC, but I'd prefer to spend less time waiting for it to download and then be able to play. I am in favour of separate maps though. And the super mod isn't self install (yet).

Chimpyang
06-20-2004, 19:02
I can help with stuff on Chinese and Mongols if you need.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-20-2004, 20:36
I might make some chinese mercenary units but they won't be there as a faction. But that would be nice with help with the mongols and later horde's.

Eastside Character
06-20-2004, 20:59
I'm working on converting STW mongol cavalry graphics into MTW unit graphics. There are some screens at My Pages (link in my sig). If you think like you'd want to use them BKB, I can provide them for you (when they're finished).

Regards,
EC

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-20-2004, 21:05
That would be great mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif They look class. Can they fire bows? Also, what animation do they have - hack, prod or both? Is there a lot of space in the BIF for weapons and shields? It's just that I'd like to get as much out of them as possible

How do you make totally new unit BIFs by the way? Your Polish Hussars are great too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Steppe Merc
06-20-2004, 21:19
BKB, you should keep in some Mongol heavies, since they did have some, (according to osprey).

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-20-2004, 21:42
I will mate you can count on it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Inuyasha12
06-21-2004, 19:51
Um, are you planning to use units from STW. If so definetly, put some samurai units.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-21-2004, 19:59
Welcome to the org mate


The korean units willbe there but no samurai, as it won't go that far. Sorry mate

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-21-2004, 20:43
Thats wise m8. Samurai would have never hired themselves out to Europeans at this time, or even Chinese. As for Korean units, seeing as I just got a bigass Osprey book covering the Korean army, I can help you immensely there.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

The Wizard
06-21-2004, 22:13
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 20 2004,20:36)]I might make some chinese mercenary units but they won't be there as a faction. But that would be nice with help with the mongols and later horde's.
I would love to join as help with Persian units, but first let me expand my collection of Osprey a bit.

Of course, I'd like to do it when I'm already a part of your mod. For this is the kind of setting that really interests me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



~Wiz

Inuyasha12
06-21-2004, 22:42
Hey BKB check out this website, you might get some useful info

http://historymedren.about.com/library/weekly/aa071000a.htm

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-21-2004, 23:56
Seriously boys the map i'm doing, i am really proud of and i think you will really, REALLY like it Honestly its good and you can see pics soon, within a week maybe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It won't be finished mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-22-2004, 00:50
SWEET

I'm dying to see that map m8, just DYING.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

DeadRunner
06-22-2004, 18:39
I already Died http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

Inuyasha12
06-22-2004, 23:41
http://www.friesian.com/images/maps/steppe-3.gif

It's got info on the mongol empires, from the smaller mongol empires before the creation of the golden horde, and after its downfall.

http://www.friesian.com/mongol.htm

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-23-2004, 02:47
http://www.india-history.com/medival-india/chola-empire.html

a map of medieval India for ya BKB. It's from 1100 which is close to where your starting right?

fear509
06-23-2004, 04:55
This mod seems very cool if you want some help just tell me what countries you need research on and ill do my best to find their historical information or maybe some other things. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-23-2004, 12:19
Thanks for the help and the offers boys, they are all well appriecated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Inuyasha12
06-23-2004, 19:06
Hey anytime BKB, what are friends for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Hope to see that map soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-23-2004, 19:56
No problem BKB. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-23-2004, 23:28
I'll be honest its progressing pretty slow at the mo. I want to finish my SuperMod ASAP to commit everything to do this and Turbo has yet to get back to me. The map is about 2/3 done and once I get that done (its very intricate and time consuming) I think things will speed up sufficiently.

At least we can use some units from my Super Mod: They'll are plenty of Eastern Russian cavalry units in my SuperMod release (Pechenig Horsmen, Chernye Klobucki, Kipchaq Horsemen, Uzbek Heavy Cavalry, Georgian units and more), and I may include Chinese Fire Archers and Naptha Horsemen (small numbers but deadly) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Inuyasha12
06-24-2004, 02:37
Take your time we all know it's worth the wait.
And if you rush it the game won't be quite as sweet.

Datka
06-24-2004, 10:53
The Blind King of Bohemia

Hello, I am from Georgia, I have participated in couple of mods already, and I can help you with units and other historical information (concerning Georgia) needed for your Mod(s).

Regards, Datka

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-24-2004, 10:58
Thanks. The Georgians also feature in my SuperMod. They currently have 2 exclusive units - Georgian Heavy Cavalry and Georgian Infantry, each having shields featuring the faction emblem (the 4 red crowns in each corner on a white background). I may make Georgian Light Cavalry in this mod, we'll see how unit space is going.

Datka
06-24-2004, 12:05
I see, the units' space is limited. Well, anyway let me give u a list of historically correct units, so that u can decide which to include, and which not.
You already have added the Heavy Cavalry and u are going to add the Light (by the way they should be armed by sword and bow). Here I have the descriptions for them:

GEORGIAN LIGHT CAVALRY
Constant warfare against the invading muslims has great influence on Georgian troop types. Sword, bow and horse allow to charge when necssary, skirmish when dealing with not so quick troops and retreat quickly when outnumbered.

GEORGIAN HEAVY CAVALRY
The nobles are elite of feudal society. They hold land where they are true lords, but their sovereign is the King and they are to join his army with their forces as soon as he calles them. They are trained to fight and ride from childhood and can afford heavy equipment of the highest quality. Thus they are the perfect heavy cavalry.

(well this last one doesn't difer from other knights' units description very much, but still http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

Here are other Georgian units with descriptions. You decide which are interesting enough to add them.

The Royal Unit:

MONA SPA
Mona Spa are royal Guard. They are chosen from the nobles, that are most trusted and devoted to the King. In peace time they are the force which the King can rely on when dealing with disloyal nobles. On the battlfield they are the heart of Georgian army.


CAUCASIAN MOUNTAINEERS
These people come from high mountains, where process of feudalisation hasn't reached and where still the tribal way of life rules. Neverthless, the mountaineers acknowledge the King of Georgia as they sovereign and when the war comes, they are ready to join the King's army. They are famous as extremely fierce and brave people.

GEORGIAN SPEARMEN
Spear is one of the weapons, that low classes of the feudal society can afford. The King and the nobles gather these soldiers among their subjects, and use them as medium force, that support heavy cavalry on the battlefield. During the constant wars, the spearmen become almost professional soldiers.

(these are the analogues of European sergeants)

KHMLOSANNI
Though the most important part of Georgian armies is cavalry, still infantry is necessary on the battlefield. Those subjects of the nobles, that can afford sword, become khmlosanni (swordsmen) and serve to their lords as a subsidiary force in their armies.

PKHOVI CAVALRY
Pkhovi is the highland part of Eastern Georgia. People living there are famous for their ferocity and braveness in battle. Unlike the lowland peasants, they are free from overlordship of feudals and are ruled by their own elders and chiefs. Neverthless, they acknowledge the King as they sovereign and are ready to support him on battlefield. Their horses are quick and their sudden attacks disorganise enemy soldiers.

SHUBOSANI MKHEDREBI
These soldiers have no money for heavy equipment like nobles, but spear is affordable for them, and those, who are more well-to-do are able to get a horse too. Their attacks are not so devastating as the noble cavalrymen's but still are dangerous for enemy troops that are not heavy enough.

KIVCHAGS
It was difficult to defend small country from hordes of invading muslims. So in the beginnig of the 12th century, King David IV invited 40 000 families of the nomad Kipchags (Kumans) from the northern steppes. They were given land, christianized, rearmed and became a perfect regular force for the King. They remained such for about a century.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-24-2004, 12:32
Alot of these unit ideas will be in the mod mate. Thanks for the info it really helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Datka
06-24-2004, 13:46
You are welcome mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . I'm glad to help to add Georgia.

How about the names, titles and other such info?
Do you want me to post it here too?

Yes, and flag with crowns is not correct. The medieval Georgian flag was similiar to the modern new flag of Georgia: one large red cross and 4 small red crosses in the corners on the white background.
I have it, but cant post it here.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-24-2004, 13:49
Thats the one i've got mate, for some reason i had the sweden flag in my head http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (they have small crowns in it)
Rest assured i have the right one


I have some titles and i think they might be correct. Do you have my super mod? because i have added Georgia there and the titles are there also

Datka
06-24-2004, 14:18
Quote[/b] ]Thats the one i've got mate, for some reason i had the sweden flag in my head (they have small crowns in it)
Rest assured i have the right one

I see http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]I have some titles and i think they might be correct. Do you have my super mod? because i have added Georgia there and the titles are there also

I dont have the Super Mod regretfully.
And how about names?

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-24-2004, 14:29
I think the names are right, I had to put Queen tamar(sp?) husband on the throne in high(1205) his name was soslan so i put him on the throne.

Datka
06-24-2004, 15:17
Well, to be exact his name was Davit, Soslan is second name (so he was called Davit Soslan), but I think it would be more correct to put son of Tamar and Davit - Giorgi IV, cause after death of Davit Soslan in 1206 he was made king (as a co-ruler) by Tamar, and Davit Soslan was not actually the king.

About names. Well, anyway, I'll put them here, maybe u will need them:

Georgian Royal forenames:

Giorgi
Davit
Bagrat
Demetre
Vakhtang
Alexander
Constantine

Other forenames:

Rostom
Zakharia
Bakur
Sergi
Papuna
Ivane
Basil
Aghsartan
Liparit
Lasha
Stephanoz
Vardan
Guaram
Varaz
Levan
Temur
Ilia
Vamekh
Zaza
Shalva
Tornike
Gurgen

Royal surname
Bagrationi

Other srnames:
Scherwaschidze
Orbeliani
Lipartiani
Mkhargrdzeli
Toreli
Amilakhvari
Bakuriani
Zargareli
Orbeli
Morkneveli
Vardanisdze
Kakhaberisdze
Amirajibi
Abazaisdze
Gelovani
Gurgenisdze
Gurieli
Dadiani
Chikovani
Surameli
Arishiani
Baramisdze
Mindoreli
Tbeli
Marushisdze
Jakeli
Akhalcikheli

Princesses:

Tamar
Rusudan
Ana
Elene
Ketevan
Mariam
Sophio
Gurandukht
Kata

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-24-2004, 15:19
So should i put Giorgi on the throne? Great name there, i have alot of them, some of the royal name i don't though. Much thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Datka
06-24-2004, 15:37
Yeah, it's more correct to put Giorgi IV on the throne in 1205 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

P.S.
There should be Aleksandre instead of Aleksander http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Inuyasha12
06-24-2004, 19:44
BKB i hope you will ad some of the african empires, like this one.
The ghana

The ancient African civilization we call Ghana existed in West Africa between the Niger and the Senegal Rivers. The rivers were important to Ghana because their economy was based on trade, and before the modern age, rivers were the fastest was to carry goods. Also they used camels extensively in long trade routs.(i think they were the first ones to implement this) Ghana became wealthy by collecting taxes from traders who passed through the kingdom. The people called their nation Wagadu, we know it as Ghana because that was the name of their war chief.


Ghana managed the gold trade despite the fact that the empire had few natural resources of their own. The gold and salt mines all lay beyond the borders of the empire, but the power of Ghana was based on their superior skill in working iron. Ghana used iron tipped spears to subdue the neighbors, who fought with less efficient weapons made of stone, bone, and wood .Muslim warriors known as the Almoravids(you already got them)called a jihad on Ghana because the people of Ghana kept their traditional beliefs. The Almoravids were successful in weakening, but not destroying the empire. Ghana remained a shadow of itself for more than a century, and warriors from throughout the region formed many small states that threatened the vital trade routes through West Africa.

whoo that was long

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Steppe Merc
06-24-2004, 21:45
I think the Ghana are to far west...

fear509
06-25-2004, 04:51
What countries will be in this mod? If you want I can try to look up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif historical and military information on them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Inuyasha12
06-25-2004, 08:25
We'll have to see our limits once the map comes out, you can always just give then a little space-even if its not their whole empire.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-25-2004, 11:07
Ethiopia, Darfur and the Sudanese are definites. Excluding the Egyptians, I'm looking at maybe 4-5 African factions. Maybe Funj or Abyssinians? Nubia won't be a province, as I'm not sure if they were independent during the periods covered. Even then, I'm sure they could get some areas. Axum also had to be removed due to province space. Who would own Somali by the way? I was gonna add Socotra, an island just off Somali, but province limits went against me. Still, I've drawn it so I might keep it on the map purely for aesthetical purposes.

DeadRunner
06-25-2004, 12:32
i am dying to play this mod

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-25-2004, 13:28
Right here is the map so far. As you can see, much is to be done, so don't be too harsh on it Currently I am finishing off the Caspian (well, redoing it to make it look like the other Europe seas) before redoing the Aral sea. Other small changes also need to be made.
The province names you see may well not be in the final mod. Also the final map will go higher than this e.g up in Europe to Ruthenia.


http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/bkbea1.jpg

What do you think so far?

Inuyasha12
06-25-2004, 14:40
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Wow i never really though about the scale of it until now

By the way i can't read the peovince names could you link us to the 'big' version?

I love it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Inuyasha12
06-25-2004, 14:42
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

Use wrong smiley in my haste

ahem

i love it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-25-2004, 14:43
I'll try a little later. It won't be long now but you can see what a bitch it can be work wise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Inuyasha12
06-25-2004, 15:04
Yeah but the more bitchy the work the better the end result.

I think it goes like that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

ParthianWarrior
06-26-2004, 00:40
I Cant see it...

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-26-2004, 02:15
I only see TOTALWAR.ORG

alman9898
06-26-2004, 21:52
right click the image, click properties, and copy the url into your address bar. then hit enter. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

ParthianWarrior
06-26-2004, 22:18
Im still getting the Logo..

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-26-2004, 23:20
Strange, no problems on my end. Does this link not work for you?

Eastern Promise map (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/bkbea1.jpg)

ParthianWarrior
06-27-2004, 00:27
Nope, Not working.

Inuyasha12
06-27-2004, 01:13
Then theres something wrong on your end because it works perfectly for me.

Sucks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
06-27-2004, 02:30
Still cant see it m8. Maybe you could email it to me?

Wcansle@aol.com

Nomad
06-27-2004, 09:19
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif Looks very promising BK,
Pre Mongol Horde should make for some excellant play with room for the Kara-Khitai, Khwarazim and Volga-Bulgars to name a few. Post 1259 most of the map will/should be Mongol. Are you going to represent the four Mongol Khanates as indipendant factions i.e Chattagai, Il ,GoldenHorde and Empire of the Great Khan. Or are the peripheral powers going to have to fight there way back onto the map against a unified but rebelious Mongol Empire(i.e disloyal generals, rebellious provinces). Should be very interesting when Europeans begin expansion into India. How are you going to represent the Portuguese and Spanish expeditions. I guess you could just make those provinces richer and make some european units available or go the whole hog and set them up as small indipendant hybrid factions. I was in Goa last year its a strange part of India very obvious cultural cross overs besides what rescent tourism has done, lots of Catholic influence in Names and moral outlook, and lots of old portuguese architecture. Very beautiful but to dam hot.
Namaste,
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-27-2004, 13:51
Nomad, the portugeuse expeditions might be there but spain? Don't think so mate. Not sure where they would appear. Spain were never around in india or the parts of africa i am doing geezer.

The mongols will be split accordingly in conjuction to the time period http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Despot of the English
06-27-2004, 14:55
Man this is remarkable. I can't wait to see this finished http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif .

Have you decided on the factions for this mod?

Earl of Sandwich
06-27-2004, 20:11
I'll bet these are some of the factions included:
@{The Ethiopian Emperor}
@{The Shah of the Khwarezmian Empire}
@{The Kievan Grand Prince}
@{The Seljuk Turk Sultan}
@{The Ruler of Mecca}
@{The Ruler of the Empire of Ghor}
@{The Leader of the Sudanese}
@{The Leader of the Bedouin Tribes}
@{The Leader of the Yemenese}
@{The Duke of Athens}
@{The King of Bosnia}
@{The Despot of Epirus}
@{The Grand Master of the Knights Hospitaller}
@{The King of Moldavia}
@{The Despot of Morea}
@{The Ottoman Sultan}

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-27-2004, 20:28
They will be there but loads more boys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fear509
06-28-2004, 00:51
Will their be a jewish faction in this mod always wanted to play as them and see what its like. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

stickman
06-28-2004, 03:40
Eastside Character... I have already got the STW MI Mongol cav unit textures and made them compatible with MTW. I was making them for my first mod MTW The Mongol Invasion. Not very original, but much more simpler and easier than all of BKBs stuff.Everything works fine, especially the Mongol Heavy Cavalry. The Mon Light Cav are at a slightly lower resolution, as its animations were on two bifs.I had to make the animations smaller to fit on one bif. But it looks ok.

BKB i will gladly supply you with these bifs+nessisary txt files if you want.

stickman
06-28-2004, 03:50
EC i looked at your Mongol Light Cav images on your site and they are better than mine, i know this is of-topic but how did you convert them to MTW? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I couldn't figure out a way of converting them without reducing the size of the figures.

Nomad
06-28-2004, 09:31
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 27 2004,14:51)]spain? Don't think so mate. Not sure where they would appear. Spain were never around in india or the parts of africa i am doing geezer.
Whoops misread my references,
Thought it sounded strange. Think 4 hours sleep and a bastard hangover didn't help. Got a book full of maps covered in multicoloured arrows that were all swimming b4 my eyes.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-28-2004, 11:43
Fair enough mate.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The jewish khazars will throw in an appearance. The factions are being finalized for each period now and things are looking up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

DeadRunner
06-28-2004, 12:31
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 27 2004,07:51)]Nomad, the portugeuse expeditions might be there but
what the hell are portugeuse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif
the portugeuse life where m8 ???

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-28-2004, 12:41
They sent expeditions to Goa in Southern India during the 16th century Deadrunner.

DeadRunner
06-28-2004, 12:49
Portuguese
you mean m8
we from Portugal we walk in all the places

Prince Tryphon
06-29-2004, 19:42
Come out with a self installer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Vincenzo Morello
06-29-2004, 21:31
THIS MOD WILL BE F**KING AMAZAING JUST TWO THINGS PLEASE SAY THE MONGOLS WILL B PLAYABLE IN ALL PERIODS AND SECONDLY WEN WILL IT BE READY

Earl of Sandwich
06-29-2004, 23:21
The Mongols playable in all periods? Even early? You better get your act together and calm down before I get medieval on your ass. The Mongols will be playable in high and late definitely. And there will be more than one different mongol faction I think.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-29-2004, 23:28
Not in early my friend but in others but not just one, there will be a few when finalized. So many factions and lots of units. It will take a while but with a bit of help and luck i should get it finished before rome comes out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

MiniKiller
06-29-2004, 23:28
Will we be able to have this mod go into ur coming super mod ealr high and late? i dont want 3 isntalls of mtw u know lmao :)

Steppe Merc
06-30-2004, 00:57
You probably will need another install.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-30-2004, 00:59
Yeah definitely.

MiniKiller
06-30-2004, 01:44
haha I can just picutre 7 or 8 MTW icons all on my desktop haha if only I knew how to make my own, like from a bigger pic and downsize it for my own little icons.

that would be super.

Prince Tryphon
06-30-2004, 20:50
Is there a self installer? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-30-2004, 21:33
There will be. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

DeadRunner
06-30-2004, 22:22
Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ June 29 2004,19:44)]haha I can just picutre 7 or 8 MTW icons all on my desktop
I have 4 copy of the mtw in the pc m8

DeadRunner
06-30-2004, 22:23
BKB next released is this mod right ???

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-01-2004, 00:04
After Super Late, and a possible Super Mod super release yes.

Steppe Merc
07-01-2004, 00:21
Super mod Super? Ooo... sounds cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

Prince Tryphon
07-01-2004, 17:11
Blind King what factions are there going to be?


I hope the Gok Blue Turks, or the Nimans, or the Kipchaqs, Khazars?


Thanks


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Chimpyang
07-01-2004, 21:06
Okay..i know it's been a while since i offered to help but here's what i found out :

The Chinese wern't paticuarly happy being under mongol rule, in fact they preferred being rules by someone they knew, so maybe any povince near china are more rebellious? Also these rebellions would mostly consist of farmers, but there would be some type of leader within them, so maybe a militia type rebel unit (slightly stronger than peasents but not much). In early the areas would probably have been rulesd by the dynasty at the time (i'll try and find out which ones.)

The chinese mainly relied on curved swords (arabian style) and a pike (called Qiang) to defend themseves and as a result they didn't have much in the way of cavalry (missile they had due to hunters etc.....maybe a woodsman missile unit...low morale but cheap?). Chinese Bandits (usually outlaws)would often hide in hilly areas so maybe a mercenary unit? They would probably be armed with a motley bunch of weapons that would vary but the sword seems the most common one.

The idea of naptha was also taken from the chinese as well as the skill required to build artilley so bonuses in areas to arty and naptha?

Thats all for now but i'll keep digging.

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-01-2004, 21:10
I'd just like to reiterate that China will NOT be covered in the mod. Very sorry to disappoint you all.

Khazars and Pechenigs in Early and most likely High too, not sure about the others yet.

MiniKiller
07-01-2004, 23:15
I was just thinking....if ur super mod can go over the orginal game and effect the original campaigns in no way couldnt we have other mods put in aswell? I mean if they all have seperate unit prod files and such isnt it possible?

Chimpyang
07-05-2004, 20:34
I was thinking that they might be mercenary units, or just cheap peasent type units for the mongols.

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-05-2004, 22:11
Yes there is every chance. Don't worry there will be alot of chinese units even if chinese factions don't make the mod itself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-06-2004, 02:13
Ooooh Chinese Fire Lancers Please fire lancers

Inuyasha12
07-07-2004, 00:48
I would just add a china then.
It wouldn't be historically accurate but still would be cool.

Think of it..
China has defeated the mongols and begun a war of conquest into the eastern steppes, war with the rus is imminent and the chinese empire is rising....

A unhistorically accurate, but still fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Steppe Merc
07-07-2004, 00:50
Dude, he just said that they weren't gonna be in it...

MiniKiller
07-07-2004, 00:52
Quote[/b] (Steppe Merc @ July 06 2004,19:50)]Dude, he just said that they weren't gonna be in it...
I think he knows this but is just saying that because their will be chinesse units in the game. he may be thinking oh hell if u have units make em a faction

no worries m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

Inuyasha12
07-07-2004, 00:53
Sorry for posting two times, Man i hate not being able to edit my posts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Anyways what are chinese fire lancers, they sound cool?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif

Inuyasha12
07-07-2004, 00:57
Uhhh yes i know i was talking about modding the mod(hehe) myself and adding china myself

Like i said it would not be historically accurate but i really don't care cause i want to play china
And i will too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-07-2004, 04:22
Fire Lances were the ancient Chinese equivalent of flamethrowers, like greek fire, but they were easier to carry. They consisted of a long lance with a bamboo tube at the end and a firing device of some sort. Basically a squirtgun that squirted flames from the lance. So you barbequed your enemy, then you speared him as he was roasting.

Cool, eh?

MiniKiller
07-07-2004, 05:22
Quote[/b] (The Sword of Cao Cao @ July 06 2004,23:22)]Fire Lances were the ancient Chinese equivalent of flamethrowers, like greek fire, but they were easier to carry. They consisted of a long lance with a bamboo tube at the end and a firing device of some sort. Basically a squirtgun that squirted flames from the lance. So you barbequed your enemy, then you speared him as he was roasting.

Cool, eh?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif

Inuyasha12
07-08-2004, 05:52
Quote[/b] ]Fire Lances were the ancient Chinese equivalent of flamethrowers, like greek fire, but they were easier to carry. They consisted of a long lance with a bamboo tube at the end and a firing device of some sort. Basically a squirtgun that squirted flames from the lance. So you barbequed your enemy, then you speared him as he was roasting.

Cool, eh?



CHRIST

Imagine the chaos that they would cause in a real battle to the enemy's front line.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Chimpyang
07-08-2004, 19:58
Funny, I've always thought that they were more cannon like artillery whihc fired rockets, but i amy be wrong.
The rockets that i have heard of had some weak points : accuracy let them down though, they were as accurate as muskets in the 15th Century and were liable to explode at unwanted moments.

However, they were extremly explosive and could easily be reloaded.

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-08-2004, 22:40
No, the fire lance wasnt artillery. You maybe thinking of the hw'acha. A Korean artillery peace that fired dozens of rockets downhill at one time. The Chinese did also have a big tank lookiking thing that was rolled around, and squirted flames too. Mostly a siege weapon.

Another thing since India is gunnabe in, maybe you could include Indian firebreathers? They were basically just Indian guys who breathed the fire, (like you see people do in the middle east sometimes) on the enemy, then speard him. They were quite effective.

So how about it BKB, can we have Fire Lancers and maybe Indian Firebreathers?

MiniKiller
07-09-2004, 02:42
any pics u can show us m8 :)

Pax
07-09-2004, 07:11
Looks outstanding. Glad to hear I'll be able to play as my beloved Hospitallers here as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif One thing though, if I may ask. Will the leadership, i.e. Grand Master title, pass by election or by a direct heir? It should pass by election, along the lines of the Papacy or HRE as it was not a hereditary title.

Either way, this looks incredible and as usual, you seem to be done incredible work BKB

Pax
07-09-2004, 07:13
Oh, and the map looks great man

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-09-2004, 09:25
I'm afraid elections seem to be impossible to do - they are hardcoded. Progress is a little slow but I'm trying to ensure that many of the units I add to my Super mod can interconnect with this mod.

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-09-2004, 11:08
Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ July 08 2004,20:42)]any pics u can show us m8 :)
Ay, not really m8. I've seen some drawings of the artillery version floating around the net though. I'll try to find it later this morning. I know for a fact there several paintings of it in use, in either one or 2 of ospreys Siege Weapons of the Far East series. BKB might have it, so maybe he can show ya.

Also BKB I can finally see that map now. Looks awesome, yet theres a big white spot? Is that where India will be?

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-09-2004, 17:01
India is on the far side and is visible, that big white bit is where i have got up to so far http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif That area will be done soon but i want it to look good first.

King Azzole
07-09-2004, 17:29
Nice looking map and great work so far but am i the only one who thinks the Arabian peninsula is alittle skinny? I am pretty good with geography and Arabia needs to be a bit wider? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Pax
07-09-2004, 22:36
Hey BKB, I'm not at all trying to tell you how to do your mod, please understand that, but perhaps you might take this into consideration? When you do get to setting up the Hospitallers, which flag will you use? I only ask because I'd like to see the historical flags used if possible. Again, I'm not trying to nitpick.

Here's a link to various Hospitaller flags and thier histories (partial to the Grand Master's flag myself, more distinct):

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/smom.html

Pax
07-09-2004, 22:49
I screwed up. The reverse English flag on those pages is NOT of the official Order. Disregard that one, it was adopted after the Reformation by and English branch when Queen Victoria issued them a charter. The only really official one on the page would be the Grand Master's flag.

More can be found here:

http://www.smom.org/

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-09-2004, 23:39
The second flag is the one i've used and you will see it in the release of super late http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Pax
07-10-2004, 04:27
Nice bro, nice. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-11-2004, 11:20
Can anyone have a look for any black portraits for any of the african factions? I would be very grateful.

AlexPeters
07-12-2004, 06:16
Osprey's (and other) books about the Zulu Wars might be useful to get the McBride look for those portraits.
The ethopians (?) had also a couple of christian saints and those might have been painted (> Benedikt the Black (http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintb20.htm)).

Alex

Zulu books:
The Zulus (Elite) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0850458641/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9786475-4801722#reader-link)
The Anatomy of the Zulu Army: From Shaka to Cetshwayo, 1818-1879 (Greenhill Military Paperbacks) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1853673633/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9786475-4801722#reader-link)
Zulu War 1879: Twilight of a Warrior Nation (Campaign) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1855321653/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9786475-4801722#reader-link)
The Zulu War (Men at Arms) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0850452562/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9786475-4801722#reader-link)

Inuyasha12
07-13-2004, 02:25
As for the african photographs/pics BKB try this, you might have to shuffle around a little bit but im sure you'll find what you need.

http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts....torical (http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/africa/photographs.html#historical)

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-13-2004, 05:41
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3735248350&category=95

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....ory=378 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6912351851&category=378)

http://www.artdewaal.co.za/works640480/zulu027.htm

http://www.southafrica-travel.net/history/eh_zulu.htm

theres some painitngs there, that maybe you can get something from. Hoe this helps :)

The Sword of Cao Cao
07-18-2004, 21:06
BKB, any news?

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-18-2004, 23:16
It's quite simple. I can't do all this by myself - even I know my limits. You guys have really helped me but I need modding help. It hasn't exactly been forthcoming so if anyone here thinks they can give me a hand, present your credentials (PM me - I'd like to know your modding skills) and I'll see if you are able to help put on this mod.

Al Khalifah
07-20-2004, 23:07
Quote[/b] ]It's quite simple. I can't do all this by myself - even I know my limits. You guys have really helped me but I need modding help. It hasn't exactly been forthcoming so if anyone here thinks they can give me a hand, present your credentials (PM me - I'd like to know your modding skills) and I'll see if you are able to help put on this mod.
It'd be a real shame if this mod never made it out to the public because it looks like one of the more ambitious projects that I've seen. Its nice to see a mod set outside of Europe (granted there's a Middle Earth one). I hope help comes forward.

Kali
07-21-2004, 11:36
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Hi Blind King, I cant offer much help as I've got other stuff happening,
But I've got knowledge of Photoshop, Irfan and Bifreader. So I could create some new or add to old Bifs for you (new shields if you need them), and/or make some new TGA's. Theres a lot of scripting I've still not tried. But I can edit most everything relating to adding/changing units and most of the startpos files make sence now.
Sorry if I'm to Newb' for this task,
The mod sounds great though.
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

p.s shame the Arakans, Khmers, and Burmese are just of the map. perhaps I smell a new project in the brewing. Far Eastern promise Dragon Rising.

Kali
07-21-2004, 11:42
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I think I read you were after other name suggestions for you mod, Blind King. I've Just thought of one.
Golden Dragon, Roaring Tiger thought it was appropriate. Maybe its not for you though.
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Turbo
07-22-2004, 00:37
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 09 2004,07:05)]With all the subtle hints going around I felt it was time to spill the beans. Maybe my boss DJ can make this thread a sticky?

I'm pleased to announce my next project, which currently features the working title of 'Eastern Promise'. It centres around a map, devotedly created to resemble the current map. The top left of it is the bottom right corner of the current map, from Hungary to Syria. Yet that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will reach as far across as modern day Turkestan (near Samarkand), down to mid-India (Goa) and then all the way back across to central Africa in Darfur. There will be 4 periods:

Early - set around 1099, the time of the First Crusade.

High - set around 1220, when Genghis Khan and the Mongols enter the equation.

Late - set around 1360, when Timur began his expansion.

Twilight - 1453 to 1568, the time of the rise of the Ottoman Empire.

A massive undertaking as you can see, and one that I'm gonna need some help with I've asked the likes of Cebei for historical info and Turbo for modding experience. However, I feel I'm really gonna need a unit designer. Flip and Duke John spring to mind, but they seem very busy at the minute with their own projects. I think I'll only need about 2 or 3, so we'll have to wait and see. I will now proceed to answer your questions:

So what stage is the mod at?

Well, the map is about 2/3 complete. As is the way when creating a map similar to the original one (ask DJ), it takes an age to complete. I may post work in progress shots if demand is high enough. Apart from that, nothing has been done. As you can see, it's in its very early stages, and that is why I was sceptical about revealing all at such an early stage.

So what positions are available?

Well, I'm not really used to working with others, which is why I want to limit the modding side of things to me, (hopefully) Turbo and if we're lucky, a unit model designer. Historical info wise, I think Cebei can really help me as far as Turkey, Asia Minor et al go, and I have plenty of books about the Mongols and Tartars, but Africa, from Egypt down is the difficult one. Any names, unit info and titles for the likes of Darfur and Ethiopia would be great.

So what will this mod feature?

Well, if everything goes to plan, it should feature:

* A brand new map covering Eastern Europe, Southern Russia, North to Central Africa, the Middle East, Khazar and India.
* 4 periods of play, beginning in 1099 and ending in 1568 (not final)
* The full quota of factions (30) in each period
* New trade goods
* A ton of new units, and hopefully brand new models
* New agents
* New religions, namely Hindu and Christian (can religions be added? I'm sure we could replace Heretic with Hindu and African Christianity could either be Pagan or Catholic if worse comes to worse)
* New Buildings (I'm thinking Hindu religious ones, maybe Elephant keepers and whatnot)
* Historial heroes and maybe Kings
* New names, plus new faction and regional titles
* New portraits (I'm thinking black people, maybe Muslim princesses, and certainly Indian portraits)
* Flip's Elephants (We have permission)

So when can we expect to play it?

Someone's selfish aren't they?? If we say a vague two months then lets look to get a BETA out by then. But I really want it finished by Rome's release

But BKB how could you? You haven't even finished Super Late What about the loyal Super Mod fans? How could you betray us?

Whoa calm down Super Late's on the backburner till I finish the map. A week's devoted attention to it should do the job. I'll then decide whether or not to do a final release with homeland goals and other stuff or press ahead with the new mod. Eastern Promise is on a far bigger scale and I'll need all your support.


So there you have it. Any questions, unit ideas (which I'm always open to), research (including pictures) or discussion can be posted here. Hell, most of you will probably hate the name of the mod - if you don't like it, I'm open to suggestions Now I'm off to finish off the Caspian.
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
BKB,

Sounds like an interesting MOD. I am still playing and enjoying the original Super and haven't even played High yet.

Let me know how I can help in the development. I am traveling and don't always have access to the Internet but have a laptop and would be pleased to help in anyway you need.

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-22-2004, 00:41
Your help will be more than welcome mate. I'll get back to you though as i'm knackered(tired) at this moment https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Meneldil
08-06-2004, 13:58
I'd gladly help if possible, but I'm worth nothing as a modder.
Hopefully, someone here will help you to complete this awesome project.

What about the Gerousia team. The unit they made for HTW are all impressive (I think they are better than the original MTW units). If only they could help you.

The Blind King of Bohemia
08-06-2004, 14:39
At the moment i'm putting the project on hold. The super mod is taking alot of time and EP will never be finished by the time Rome comes out. I'm going to keep the map and see the modding possibilities of rome and hopefully eastern promise can happen when i mod the hell out rome, after a few weeks playing of course.

Meneldil
08-06-2004, 22:41
Ack, more time to wait, although a RTW EP mod should be even better when finished.

About your idea of adding provinces depending on the selected era, I think it rocks. It's already quite nice in Super Mod, so it will probably be as good in another mod.

Pax
08-08-2004, 01:09
As long as I get to play as the Knights of St. John, I'll be happy to wait. :D Good work BKoB, rest up man, you've been doing incredible work.

Inuyasha12
08-10-2004, 13:01
Any kind of update on your progress m8?

ShadesPanther
08-10-2004, 14:19
I think this is on hold until Late comes out in the next few days.

Vincenzo Morello
08-13-2004, 14:59
look at it this way bkb can only do so much so dnt be dissapointed if he cant do this mod because his super mod is just as good so stick to that

The Blind King of Bohemia
08-18-2004, 23:03
The more I think about it the better it will be waiting for Rome - the pre-organised alliances before the game begins, and in particular the black portraits for the Numidians.

Meneldil
08-25-2004, 17:44
What about making the 'eastern promise' mod a whole part for a MTW mod ?
Of course, it would depend of the RTW moding possibilities, but I think a mod with both europa and middle-east/asia would really kick *ss (though it would be a huge project, needing maybe a whole team of modders).

soibean
11-08-2004, 04:04
as Ive stated for 4 other mods tonight
keep us updated on whats up for this mod it looks sweet

JR-
12-17-2004, 15:39
i can't believe i didn't know about this!

what an excellent idea, i hope it doesn't die a death, especially as there is so much commonality with other mods to shorten the development process........?

O/T - i also like the idea of a BKB super-all-in-one mod.

PeegeeTips

King Ragnar
03-21-2005, 14:22
Any news on this mod?

The Blind King of Bohemia
03-21-2005, 14:35
I was actually looking at the state of things the other day and it would be a shame if this mod idea died. I wouldn't hold your breath but maybe soon i might try to work on it again ~D

King Ragnar
03-21-2005, 14:40
hope u do finish it ur super mods wer excellent

Meneldil
03-21-2005, 15:11
Are you going to finish it on MTW or RTW ?

King Ragnar
03-21-2005, 15:17
i hope its on MTW i aint got RTW..............................yet

JR-
03-23-2005, 14:04
i hope so.

Emerald Wolf
09-12-2005, 23:54
I was just wondering if BKB was still interested in reviving this mod idea. I would be more than willing to do the lion's share of the researchy for this as my technical skills are lacking,but my research is good enough as I am working on my Master's Degree. (Slowly)