The Megapolis

[komninos]

Hi all,

I have started a poll in the Junior members hall so that all can participate in it. But since here all the moders are gathered I have came to ask more than a vote

The thing is that no matter how good are you making a good “conversion” mode needs a lot of talents and time. … I have some of the first and practically none of the second.

So I would like to make a team of 3 to 5 people to tackle the tasks that will rise from the challenge especially if the Hellenic Total War come as most popular where a totally new map will be needed.

Things that will change … every thing … new trade goods, ships, totally new bunch of units, formations, flags buildings, graphics for all the above, maps, descriptions, battle maps, … did I forget anything???

What I can decently do is the units, startpos files, some of the unit graphics, define the map but not parse it, … and that about sums it up.

So by Sunday we will know which one it will be So if anyone would like to help please do …

[Rosacrux]

I can help you with the faction list, unit line-up, names, descriptions... and that's about it. Just drop a mail @ young_frankie@yahoo.com and I'll try to do my best.

My time is severely limited, though, so we have to have a rather ...untight scedule.

[flip]

Ancient Units Site (http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/)

I may contribut with new units, preparing the pack for Komninos. And about the shields, did you receave my answer?

PS: the link is for a new site, the hyperlink "screenshots" is not working yet.

[komninos]

Hi all,

Thanks for the interest and I hope for the voting.

From what things are showing the Hellenic Total War will be the winner. This is nice for two reasons.
1. It does not compete with KDs Patrician mod but it can work as a stepping-stone.
2. It does not compete with CA Rome Total War

The project will be split in various areas of interest.
1. Map making and startpos files. – I think I will have to develop some tools for the accompanying files (descriptions, names … etc)
2. Unit creation – This will deal with the unit list and the graphic work to insert them in the game (also ships)
3. Building creation – This will deal with the building list and there graphics
4. Tech Tree and balancing – This looks easy but it is not practically this is half of the game (one thing I have not done in the Persian wars).
5. Historical work – This has to do with digging up info on the period, units buildings, factions, events, key events (like the Phalanx creation that will trigger the ability to build hoplites) and passing all this info in the game. (Not my kind of work I hate righting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif)

I will do the unit work … I have doth the tools and the knowledge BUT I will need help on the graphics part. Flip you know I have taken your offer on that for the shields and if possible to bit more than that. I am working on the first file of the dark age and hoplites.

I will have the map built quite fast ~2 days but I cant parse it. I will need help on that if any body can help (Simply pass it from LLM and maybe correct some mistakes)

In building I am ignorant … Help will be needed for both the graphics and the file it self.

The tech tree is some thing I will need a lot of input from you people any one interested?

Finally the strings in the game … who is good at history and like to write about it, Rosacrux ??????

Lancer6969

See what you can do and help and let me know, thanks

[Rosacrux]

OK, I had an hour to work (spouse still sleeping) so I came up with some preliminary data.

Ancient Greek mod

Factions

If an only-Greeks mod:

Athens
Sparta
Thessalon Koinon
Kingdom of Macedonia
Kingdom of Epirus
Thebe
Ionia
Syracuse
Aetolon Koinon
Creta
Corinth

If we include non-Greeks too

Persia
Illyrians
Romans
Karthagenians
Galates (Gaul)
Skythes
Thracians


Eras:
- Geometrical (or “dark ages”)
- Classical
- Hellenistic


Here is a Greek unit line up

Generic Greek units:

Geometrical era (”dark age”)
Early Hoplite
Psilos Javelin
Psilos Bow
Psilos sling
Hippis
Akondistes
Slinger


Classical
Classical Hoplite (or Hoplite)
Ekdromos hoplite (light)
Peltast
Xistophoroi hippis
Toxotes
Medium cavalry
Javelin cavalry


Hellenistic era

Phalangites
Thireophoros
Rompheophoros
Heavy cavalry
Prodromoi hippis
Thorakites

Faction Specific

Athens specific: Iphikratian hoplite

Sparta Specific: Spartan hoplite, Skirites

Thebes specific: Theban hoplite, Theban light cavalry

Thessaly specific: Thessalian cavalry

Crete specific: Cretan archers

Macedon specific: Heteroi cavalry, Hypaspists shock infantry, Pezeteroi (Macedonian phalangites)

Region specific:

Agriannes Javelinmen (Illyrikon)
Thracian Peltast (Thrace)
Rhodian slinger (Rhodes)
Syracusae light infantry (Syracusae)
Thracian cavalry (Thrace)
Paeonian light cavalry (Paeonia)
Skythian archers (Skythia)
Akarnanian Javelineer (Akarnania)


Siege units:


Classical era

- Gastraphetes
- Eythytonon
- Palintonon
- Vallista

Hellenistic era
-Catapeltes
- Hellepolis
- Onagros


Sea units

Geometrical era

- Pendikondoros

Classical era

- Bireme
- Trireme

Hellenistic era

- quinqueremes
- Hepteres




So… observations? Additions? Changes?

[komninos]

Eeeeeeeek.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif Over Information ... processing ...

Thanks Rosacrux,
Have to prosses them.
Though some look very similar ... were the Thireophoros also using the Romphea?

Any way mor info will be needed ... I think you vote for the Hellenic Total War http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

I plan on using the Illyrians, Skythans (thay will also give an exelent achers unit), Galatans, Frygians (I htink they were still there), Lydians, and Persians. Romans and Carthigians come about after Alexander and the death of Philip is the end of the game It will not get in the the Hellinistic Era. (Thats for part two) Also Syracuse is out of the game cause we will have to make Etruscans also and the map gets way too big. The problem is the size of Greece. The provinces get very small. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Rosacrux]

If the death of Philip is the end of the game, all the abovementioned units save the hellepolis and Hepteros are in - Philipos reformed the Macedonian army, not Alexandros http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


As for rompheophori-thireoforoi, they are different things, thireophoros was kind of a Greek legionary, carrying the thyreos shield and equiped with javelins and sword, usually also a spear.

Sometimes thireophoroi are called also thorakites, but the latter tend to be more heavily armoured (hence the name - "cuirassiers" for our non-Greek speaking friends http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).

Neither Lydians nor Phrygians were a great power back then, but I guess we could add them for flavor... it's just that it's not an easy thing to make some diverse unit line up with those. But I'll see what I can do.

Flip did a fantastic job with the unit graphs - most of those we'll need are already there and the few left I hope he can produce as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

When I find some time I'll proceed with the descriptions, but we'll have to finalize the line up before. Check those out, brainstorm a bit, if anybody else wishes to give an opinion and when it's final, I can get the descriptions in no time.

[komninos]

Hi Rosacrux,

In the Geometric age,

What is the difference with
Psilos Javelin - Akondistes
Psilos sling - Slinger

And the Hippis must be lightly armed javeliners with no armor or any protection aren't they;

[Rosacrux]

Hi Komninos

Psilos Javelin: No armour, very poor moral, very weak attack, very weak defense, armed with javelins

Psilos sling:No armour, very poor moral, very weak attack, very weak defense, armed with sling (low range and lethality)

Akondistes: Very light armour, standard moral, weak attack, weak defense, armed with javelins and a light shield (the predecessor to the Peltast)

Slinger: VEry light armour, standard moral, weak attack, weak defense, armed with sling and a buckler, upped range and lethality.

The Psilos version is a very poor version of javelineers and slingers, while the other two are more "professional" and definitely more reliable (that can be represented in the game too, by making them much more expensive than the psilos version and upping their requirements).


And the Hippis are the standard cavalry... something like the "light cavalry" or the hobilars of VI-MTW. No javelin, they are supposed to have spears.

Maybe you are thinking of hammipos? But they were armed with swords.

[komninos]

Hi Rosacrux,

I would like to make as litle change to the importan files of the game as posible ... Unfortunatly the Projectiles are hard coded http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif so this is a file that will take the change. The Rodian slingers will go at the Ninj lacation so I get to locations from the guns for the slings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Gastrafetes will take the Crossbow but for the rest of the sieg weapons ... I don't know. I will try and see how it goes.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
One more thing ... how well armored were the dark age hoplites. My impresion is that of a good plate armor, javelins and a spear or sword for the fight. Normal moral.

Also I think tha it would be good to make two Clasical age hoplites. One for the large city states Athens, Argos, Corinth ... of good class and a lesser city of normal. For the Thebian ... Ieros Lohos (Holy Regiment) I will see what to do with them probably will make them something of a special unit of good quality and a moral of 12. Spartans will go to the guard category. And they will have a advantage with there dark age hoplites over the rest.

[Latro]

Yeah, PERSIANS


Faction specific:

Immortals: early period guard, shield, spear, bow
Sparabara: early/high close, deep formation archers, reasonable defence against cavalry, pavise
Heavy or Noble cavalry: Heavy armour, javelins
Apple bearers: high/late guard hoplites medium armour
Kardakes: late hoplites (Ificratean style?)
Greek hoplites: better as expensive faction units then relying on mercenary system, I would think.


Region specific:

All Persian homelands:
Persian slinger: shield, sling
Persian light archers
Persian cavalry: javelins light armour
Takabara: High/Late, pelte, javelins

Eastern lands:
Auxiliary Infantry: spear + bow
Light cavalry: Horse archers

Northern lands:
Javelin light infantry and light cavalry

Scythian lands:
Saka Noble cavalry: heavy armour, shield, spear, bow
Saka light cavalry: bow, fast
Saka infantry: light archers

Thracia:
Thracian peltasts: shield javelins, fast
Thracian rhomphaioi: irresistable charge
Thracian light cavalry: shield, javelins

Karia: hoplites

Lydia: hoplites

Kappadokia: cataphracts
Armenia: cataphracts:

India:
Longbows,close formation
Infantry: spear shield, defend well against cavalry
Cavalry: shield spear

Arabia:
Camel archers

All Persian units, very cheap and slighly better moral.
All bows, exept arabs, slightly upped MTLG.

Comments, please?

[komninos]

Hi,

The Persians are a difficalt thing to handle. The map is a bit eastern of Asia minor. The Persians will appear as a new faction in High period with a huge force. I am not sure How to make them appear this way. There units are basicaly produced in land that are not included in the map. So they will get a number of units but most of them will be indeginus units from the concured lands.

Persian origin units are good and not that cheep but lighly armed.
Persian armies are composed though mainly with slave units that suffer in moral. They are mostly lighly armed loke all eastern units.
Thanks for the input. At the moment the focus is on the early units which are the Dark Age units. You will have to deal with them for 300 years till 700AD. Persian will appear much later in the seen but they will overwelm most factions very fast

[Rosacrux]

Good work on the Persian side Latro http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
What about Media? Median archers, maybe? Or Median light cavalry?

Also since this mod starts early on, I guess Komninos wants to implement Thracian, Karian and Lydian as factions, so their unique units could be made region specific, so anyone getting their lands can produce them.

Komninos

I think there are already two variations of the standard hoplite in the "High" (classical) era: Standard hoplite and ekdromos (light) hoplite. The Athenians get a better version of the latter as faction specific (Ifikratian hoplite) and the Spartans a better version of the former (Spartan Hoplite). Also the Thebans get their faction specific Theban Hoplite (Sacred Band is the English name for "Ieros Lochos").

Shouldn't those be enoug Hoplite variations http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

BTW I agree on the better dark age hoplite for the Spartans.

Also, the Late era should be dominated by the Macedonian phalanx - Philipos did conquer Greece with his phalanx after all - and thous phalangites (Pezeteroi for the Macedonian faction) should be better than hoplites.

The geometrical era hoplites used either a medium quality plate thorax or a linen thorax (metal banded) and had a primitive version of the hoplon (aspis), wore a pilum-like helmet, and used a spear and a little sword for close encounters. No javelins.

BTW, what kind of era names shall you give? Probably Early becomes Geometrical and High... Archaic or Classical? Late? Maybe Geometrical, Archaic, Classical respectively?

BTW2: If you have Civ3 (or even if you don't, there are screenies) you can check out this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37256&highlight=hoplite) in the CivFanatics Forum... maybe we could add even more hoplite variations http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Edited once more: I am not sure, but I guess the only way to make the {Persian "appear" in the High era is to mod the GH to become Persian... dunno if this could bring some more complications...

The eras you plan on using are 1000-700, 700-480 and 480-350?

[Latro]

Quote[/b] ]The Persians are a difficalt thing to handle. The map is a bit eastern of Asia minor. The Persians will appear as a new faction in High period with a huge force. I am not sure How to make them appear this way. There units are basicaly produced in land that are not included in the map. So they will get a number of units but most of them will be indeginus units from the concured lands.


Well, we'll need a different map anyways, didn't someone do an eastern map already? It only needs to go a bit more west to include Hellas and Macedon. Persians could start as early then. You could start with Cyros (600's or what?) and conquer the empire.


Quote[/b] ]Persian armies are composed though mainly with slave units that suffer in moral.
This may be true for the Sassanid era (and even that is probablyexagerated) but the Achaemenids were pretty warlike, especially the nobility. They should suffer mostly because they had inferior equipment and fighting style against the greeks. If used wisely by a cunning player they should be able to perform reasonably well.


Quote[/b] ]What about Media? Median archers, maybe? Or Median light cavalry?
Could do. Reason I left them out is because they are basically the same as Persians. They did have seperate units though. So yeah, why not.

[Duke John]

A Hellinistic mod would seem very appealing to me. With all the Greek citystates battling out. If you're a bit further with this mod, and I have some time left, send me some pictures of units you want. I offer my abilities to make 2 or 3 infantry units if you like. I will only provide the BIFs, weapon posititioning will be your job. Give me a sign if you're interested.

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

You asked for it ...

I will sent you the relevant zip. It is the Viking bif file and some small files that when placed in the write place will give you a working testbed.

Righ now we need a basic Hoplite. --
Here are a cuple of liks to get the picture
The Athenean (http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsares/warfare/army/a_hoplit.html)
The Spartan (http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsares/warfare/army/s_hoplit.html)
The Ificratian Reform (http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsares/warfare/army/i_hoplit.html)
I think one of the two first are the best to pick. All hoplite have a cape that hangs from the shoulders. Use the stripe colour so this can be set from the start pos file.
I will send you the file when I built a help text file on what and where to place everything flip is having a crazy time placing all the part at there place Sorry flip.

One more thing ... you said you will do two ... pick whitch one you would like to do.
Perhaps a some of the light units or cavalry?
I have planed for four body types.
Body armor, Curias armor
One with medium armor for the Thireophoros or Rompheophoros
And a half naket with just Greek slile tuning. Only one hoplite is realy needed.

[komninos]

Rosacrux


Quote[/b] ]I think there are already two variations of the standard hoplite in the "High" (classical) era: Standard hoplite and ekdromos (light) hoplite. The Athenians get a better version of the latter as faction specific (Ifikratian hoplite) and the Spartans a better version of the former (Spartan Hoplite). Also the Thebans get their faction specific Theban Hoplite (Sacred Band is the English name for "Ieros Lochos").

Shouldn't those be enoug Hoplite variations http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

You have a point there ... The thing is that the problem come from the fact that the standard hoplite was used every where. The Athinean got the Ificratin Hoplite after the persian war. There standard hoplites were superior to the rest of the lesser cities. Same goes for Argos. On the other hand the big cities will be mostly represented so the rest cun get just Ekdromos. Spartans will get there owne but it will take 3 to 4 year to built one while the rest will get it in 2 years. Thebians are a strange situation ... most probably I will make a standard good hoplite with a huge moral.


Quote[/b] ]Also, the Late era should be dominated by the Macedonian phalanx - Philipos did conquer Greece with his phalanx after all - and thous phalangites (Pezeteroi for the Macedonian faction) should be better than hoplites.

Yes but at some point they were beaten from a coalition of states led by athens. Any way they will have a sariza that would give the standard hoplite the differnce it needs.


Quote[/b] ]The geometrical era hoplites used either a medium quality plate thorax or a linen thorax (metal banded) and had a primitive version of the hoplon (aspis), wore a pilum-like helmet, and used a spear and a little sword for close encounters. No javelins.

Hoplites came about with the reforms made in Argos about 700AD. I have seen many drowings with a shiels that looks like an 8 (ok not exaclty but ...) and have two spears in one hand and one in the right. I also know that they foght in open formatios thoughing spears while attacking.


Quote[/b] ]BTW, what kind of era names shall you give? Maybe Geometrical, Archaic, Classical respectively?

Well the Geometric, Archaic, Classical is the best I think.


Quote[/b] ]Edited once more: I am not sure, but I guess the only way to make the {Persian "appear" in the High era is to mod the GH to become Persian... dunno if this could bring some more complications...

Yes I am realy Puzzled about the Persians ... My focus is on getting the Geometric Era to work and take it from there. By the way do you know any one that can parse the map for me. I made it last night but I have to pass it from LMM.


Quote[/b] ]The eras you plan on using are 1000-700, 700-480 and 480-350?
Yes ... though I think the first should be til 780 But 700 gives us 300 years of dark age to play with ... sice round number. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Latro
Lets make the Geometric Period to work OK and we can take it from there. If I had it my way I would make a map that spans from the Britain till India and from Denmark till Abisinia. BUT I realy don't think that the MTW will handle well with some thing that big and some 500 teritories Basicaly I made a map that had from Greece till Persia but Greece was so small that the castles would not fit in the areas given I had Greece in 12 ereas Welly was asking for 6 In the map I have now Pelopones is divited in to 12 ereas That is the needed space for three factions: Spartans,Argians, Corinthinas. Just imagine a map that you can divide Pelopones in 12 and reaches till the persian golf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
OK I would do it IF CA paid some realy had cash for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[flip]

This mod gonna rock, I'm just hurried with the fact that people here found that VI its not moddable. I think It was Wellington. Lets pray.

Other question. Komninos, do you plan to change the factions shields (bifs) in the review pannel? It will be nice to add them some flavour. I did some tests on this. Can you list here the factions that will be present?

[komninos]

Hi flip,

I think Welly simply stated that it is not as moddable as they praised it would be and I can’t say I disagree with him. What I think they did was try to reduce the time to market. But they changed the structure of the files (very bad practice for a game that supports and depends on the modding community), second these changes made the game very sensitive to change, third though the game was fairly simple to mod it had a complex file structure now this was increased making it a bit of a nightmare. Finally they put the stakes too high and I think some of us are disappointed. (i.e. they stated that events could be defined … but never how you can do it&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
But for total conversions like this … we need these changes and we will live with them. I think the best thing for Ca would be to create a developers connection or forum where tools and file definitions would be found. I have a feeling that RTW is going to be a lot more complex. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Now on the factions, I am not very confident with that … for sure the following:
Spartans, Argians, Corinthians, Athenians, Biotians, Thesalians, Macedonians and Thrasians for the Greek factions.
Ilirians in the north west, I am note sure who lived in the north west the map goes till Danube so it does not cover the Skythans (they will have some units as mercenaries)
In the east Frygians, Lydians for sure. Persians if we can make them pop-up at sertain time.
Minor factions might include Cretans, Ionians (Asia minor), Aetolians, Epirotes.
The Ionians, and island populations are troublesome I might disperse them to the major factions that they descended form (ie. Mitilineans to Sparta or Argos Doric descent).

Comments

[Rosacrux]

There are more than a few things I'd like to address, but right now I've got no time. So... just keep in mind that the Thracians are not Greeks (and thus should not be a "Greek faction") that Thessalians, Macedonian and Epirots never used hoplites (hoplite=city state) that if Lydians are in surely Karians should also be in, that the faction you are looking for the north of Macedonia are the Paeonians (great light cavalry and skirmishers) and... for the rest, I'll reply later... probably I'll post a ancient balkan map (have to scan it though) so I'll get back to you.

[komninos]

Here we are going to agree that we disagree.
Greeks recognised them shelves as Greeks by there customs and language not by tribe.
Thracians were recognised as Greeks this is also stated by a righter but I can't remember his name now. Of lesser statue to the rest (Southern Greeks) but Greeks.

Above Biotia the areas remained rural and connected to the old governing system of the Greeks. Most of these territories suffered from the passing of northern barbarians or the Eastern Empires. A large part of Thrace remained under Persian rule for a long time.

The Hoplite was used in numbers only in the south in large numbers for a very simple reason ... COST. They used some form of Hoplite but not as powerful to the one used in the south. Also DBA gives a hoplite to the northern Greeks but is only a small force in a sea of skirmishers and light cavalry.

Now Lydians are an Eastern power that concurred most of what is now Turkey. They were very powerful in there time. But they were over powered by the Persians. Under the Persians the Lydians Royals were intermixed with the high class Persians And the East Satrapies remained under there control. There capital Sardis was one of the grates cities of the time.

Have to read a lot My memory does not help me much.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/beginnings_hist_greece.jpg

[Duke John]

I hope you understood me, when I said I would make units. I make new models and render them. You can see some results of my efforts in the Lord of the Rings thread. These are not done by editing exisint BIFs but are entirely new. Since the three provided units look very much alike, I will see what I can do for them in the coming days.

[komninos]

Duke John,

I have not not seen your work till now but I gues that it would be better than any thing I have done. I 've seen shuch models for the Napoleonic mod.

I don't know how much time it takes to build them ... so this is up to you my friend. Any of us wiould give you as much info you need.

Thanks again.

Some thing to note.
Hoplites hold there spears perpendicular to the ground when standing or walking.
On a run they hold them above there head ready to strike.
On a charge they spear lower to the belly level.
They fight by holding the spears above there head and aiming for the neck.
The ones that use pikes (ificratian, sariza) use both hands to handle the pike.
The body is perpendicular to the shield while they fight. the shoulder pushes the shield forward while the other hand holds the spear. The Shiels is used for shuffiling, pushing and some times slacing the enemy.

[Rosacrux]

Komninos

1. I am Greek also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif And native Greek too. And I am quite a history buff so I do know very well our common ancestral heritage. Plus I am an avid fun of military history and especially ancient warfare.

Trying to help here, so that the mod shall be as historically accurate as possible, while still be fun to play. I hope you do understand that, don't you?

Everything I write is a result of research on my behalf and is 100% accurate. Γιατί λοιπόν διαφωνούμε συνεχώς? Aν δεν χρειάζεσαι τη βοήθειά μου τότε εντάξει, να σταματήσω να την προσφέρω.

1. in Thrace there were numerous Greek cities (especially along the shoreline) but the bulk of the population of the region was not of Greek origin.

Allthough most of them got hellenized later on (at least in the time of Philipos' reign in Macedonia, most Thracians were partly or fully hellenized) they were not Greek to begin with. And Greeks never counted them as Greeks.

The distinction I made about the northern kingdoms (Macedon, Epirus, Thessaly) is a vital one, since – as you point out too – they never got to the southern urban culture status so the hoplite (which is a phenomenon tied together with the urban culture and more so the city-state institution and that is shown by the adoption of the hoplite by Rome in it’s early development and by each and every Italian city state, even the non-Greek ones) never was used widely in those areas.

3. The power of the Lydians was never such as to “cover all what is today Turkey”. Phrygia, Karia and Ionia, for instance, were not conquered by the Lydian. The Persians have gotten to them since 550 BC or so, and they never recovered after it. I am not an expert on Lydian history so I might very well be mistaken, but that's what I've read. Anyway, that's your decision.


A description for some of the units Duke John would work on:

Standard Hoplite: Breastplate (thorax) greaves 2-2.5 m. long spear, large round bronze shield, Korinthian helmet. The distinction of the Spartan hoplite should be a Lamda on their shields and a red cloak. Theban hoplites should have the “club of Hercules” painted on their shields.

Ifikratian hoplite: Linen armor, no greaves (they wore sandals) pelti shield (wooden oval, kinda 8-shaped, shield, they kept attached to the arm by a telamon while they were holding the pike with both hands) 4-4.5 long pike, pilos helmet.


Some replies to your previous posts:



Quote[/b] ]You have a point there ... The thing is that the problem come from the fact that the standard hoplite was used every where. The Athinean got the Ificratin Hoplite after the persian war. There standard hoplites were superior to the rest of the lesser cities. Same goes for Argos. On the other hand the big cities will be mostly represented so the rest cun get just Ekdromos. Spartans will get there owne but it will take 3 to 4 year to built one while the rest will get it in 2 years. Thebians are a strange situation ... most probably I will make a standard good hoplite with a huge moral.

It is a mistake to replace the standard hoplite anywhere with the ekdromos, since the latter was used only during and after the pelloponesian war era and on and it was a “hoplite light”, so to say.

Also, Iphikrates made his reforms in the 420s, not “after the persian wars”.



Quote[/b] ]Yes but at some point they were beaten from a coalition of states led by athens. Any way they will have a sariza that would give the standard hoplite the differnce it needs.

Philipos was beaten? When?



Quote[/b] ]Hoplites came about with the reforms made in Argos about 700AD. I have seen many drowings with a shiels that looks like an 8 (ok not exaclty but ...) and have two spears in one hand and one in the right. I also know that they foght in open formatios thoughing spears while attacking.

Hoplites indeed seem to have occurred in the Argean area but the right timeframe is 800-750 BC. And they never used the “oktashimi” shield (which was abandoned after the Mycenean era, only to comeback during the 5th century as the similar "pelti" the Thracean peltasts used) their name derives – as you probably know – from the large round wooden (initially) or bronze (later, after the Spartans adopted it) shield called hoplon.

Also, might you post the pictures you are talking about? AFAIK the hoplites never used any other weaponry besides the spear and the sword. I think you could add a generic warrior type for the early geometrical era, to cover the gap that is there. You could call it “polemistes” or something like that and arm it the way you describe. But hoplite had no javelins. Not very historically accurate, but gameplay-wise it should work well.


Quote[/b] ]Well the Geometric, Archaic, Classical is the best I think.

Very well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Latro]

Quote[/b] ]Standard Hoplite: Breastplate (thorax) greaves 2-2.5 m. long spear, large round bronze shield, Korinthian helmet. The distinction of the Spartan hoplite should be a Lamda on their shields and a red cloak. Theban hoplites should have the “club of Hercules” painted on their shields.

Ifikratian hoplite: Linen armor, no greaves (they wore sandals) pelti shield (wooden oval, kinda 8-shaped, shield, they kept attached to the arm by a telamon while they were holding the pike with both hands) 4-4.5 long pike, pilos helmet.

Standard hoplites could also wear the linnen thorax or even none at all. From the birth of the hoplite his armour would get lighter and lighter. It is the hoplon that gives the protection.

My understanding of Ificrates’ reform of the hoplite was that he changed the shield.
The hoplon has a broad outer rim, the new shield did away with that rim and was lighter.
Doing away with the rim meant that the grip was much closer to the edge, with the addition of a sling you can now use the left hand to support a pike. You can not hold a pike with a traditional hoplon.

The word ‘pelte’ usually describes a light shield, as opposed to the heavy hoplon.
The Thracians typically used pelti in the form of a half moon but oval and round were also used. The dyplon (the smaller figure of 8 shield) was used in archaic times and, judging by the Persepolis reliefs, still for some time in Persia.

The new shield used by the Ificratean hoplite was much lighter than the hoplon and thus called a ‘pelte’. Not because of its shape, which was round.

The late phalanx also used this shield and this explains why the phezetairoi could easily switch to the role of peltast, for scouting or scaling walls. They just had to exchange the sarissa for a javelin.
The hypaspists are thought to have continued the use of the hoplon. With a short spear this would make them more useful as body guards.

Oh, and I would prefer the Ificratean hoplites with the more modern thracian helmet, instead of the pilos.

[Rosacrux]

Good points Latro, but there are descriptions of Ifikratian hoplites carrying an actual pelti. And the shield the Macedonian used was even smaller.

but all in all valid remarks.


Komninos

Here (http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=320793) you can find a map of the ancient balkans+asia minor... might be useful to the mod.

[Latro]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif OOOOH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Just found This page (http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/se/~luv20009/Greek_shield_patterns_1.html); Shield emblems galore

[Rosacrux]

Very intereting page... Great drawings... Komninos and the other unit-makers should be delighted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


...I've noticed that there are indeed some drawings of early (c. 720 BC) Greek warriors carrying the hoplon and also spears-heavy javelins... allthough they were probably not actual hoplites, since the evolution of the hoplite phalanx wasn't complete then.

Fits with the generic "polemistes" scenario well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[komninos]

Well Leto,

This is where I got my shields from for the Persian Wars mod.

Rosacrux,

Hold your horses ... sorry I if offended you ... we Greeks always like to argue a lot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif . I have always though the Thrasian as a Greek tribe ... any way. The post was made in 3:20 in the morning after working all day and still in the office so it must have carried something of all that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I will live the historical stuff to you. I will just do the units. Can you right some thing on the Geometrical units so I can built them an we can test them. I will used the factions in Viking so the smallest changes will be needed for the testing.

On the hoplite and lesser hoplite thing ... My problem is that it will take some time to develop an area for hoplite production ... a lighter hoplite that would come rapidly in hand and then used for guarding would be very handy.

On the Dark age hoplites ...
I think we have a misunderstanding here ... You refer to the actual hoplites used by the Argians in ~800 I was referring to the unit used before that my mistake here (what was there name???) remember it will start at 1000AD but that complicates things with the dispersion of hoplites since some how the Argians should get them first. An event like "Heavy Armour Development" with a small armoury available to the Argians might just solve it. (Similar to the "gun powder" event)

I have come up with 5 body type that we can reduce in the name of complexity.
1. Standard Hoplite
2. Ificratian hoplite
3. One for the Thireophoros, Rompheophoros (chain like????)
4. Tuning - for the Peltasts and other light types (this can be accommodated by the peasant body)
5. Cavalry man with Standard armour.

I have a good collection of maps and a satellite image of the area that I will use for the map. As I said that’s ready BUT I have to pass it from LMM and that does not work in Win98 plus a more experienced person in map making is needed for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif anyone ....

[flip]

I have this one
A lot of information
Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806127945/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/002-7199408-9382439?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link)
http://filipeabranches.web1000.com/Pics/capa1.jpg

[Rosacrux]

Komninos

Oh, yes, you can't put two Greeks in a room together, they'll start bickering http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif from minute 1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sorry for my tone too, sometimes I sound too paternalistic I guess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Seems we are getting quite a momentum here, so let's get the action going: First thing could you please, and all other people who have an interest to this mod, read my suggestion for the unit line up in page 1 of this thread and make their suggestions? I shall make a final (as final as can be) unit line up taking into consideration the suggestions and then write description (even stats suggestions, if you wish) for everything.

I want to get over this, so I can get to the factions later on.

BTW, we have to finalize the faction line up too. I think we should include the Persian as a playable faction, but that's up to you Komninos. When we do, I shall write data for those too and find as many data, heroes, names etc. as possible.

I hope you'll find someone to do the map parsing... doesn't sound like something I could do, sorry.

Let's get going lads, we want this mod out at least a couple of months before RTW hits us

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[komninos]

OK,
Since I have done some of the units here I go, ....
Dark Age Hoplites start at ~800 So we need a unit that will cover the first 200 the Polemiste as sugested "wariors" can fill in the gap nicely. I have tested them an they are good if only the MTW didn't triat them as missile http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

The rest look OK to me ...

Yes I would like to have the Persians in ... If I find a way to do it.

The map parsing is simple ... pass it through the LMM and setting a number of parameters.

BTW
Don't give stats but in a discriptive way as the production exel has it. i.e.
DA_hoplites: Normal, 3Q_Plate, long_spear (3,5m), HVY_Large(shield), Foot_shock, close (formation)
Also most of my units have 100men size so battles end up very blody

[Latro]

I haven't much time this weekend but I could start work on the Persian units this monday.

Shouldn't we decide first on the exact map and which countries there are going to be? Can't start work on the startpos file before the map is final.
Haven't been able to work with the LMM properly yet. So Komninos, you are doing the map?

[komninos]

Hi Latro,

I am a newbe in the map making though I know the workings of the startpos file fairly well. I have started to work on a test bed startpos file on the map of England but did not have much luck with it yet. I am re making the campaign tool for that map. I think it will be working this week end.

I have contacted Mr_Egg an Welly if they could process the map I have made but no news yet. Have you used the LMM? If you have WinXP I think I can make the files you will need. My first attempt had no result since Welly never fully compiled them map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ June 20 2003,02:59)]Hi Latro,

I am a newbe in the map making though I know the workings of the startpos file fairly well. I have started to work on a test bed startpos file on the map of England but did not have much luck with it yet. I am re making the campaign tool for that map. I think it will be working this week end.

I have contacted Mr_Egg an Welly if they could process the map I have made but no news yet. Have you used the LMM? If you have WinXP I think I can make the files you will need. My first attempt had no result since Welly never fully compiled them map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Komninos,

The problem with the 1st map you sent me was (although it was a nice map of the med) it covered too large an area for your specific mod. As you wanted to split Greece into 10 or more provinces, Greece only covered 2-4% of the total map area and this made it difficult to get all the 10 provinces you required into this smallish area.

On this note I've been contacted recently by a Guy who has hit exactly the same problem - and pointed it out to me. If your provinces are too small you'll find that the images (castle/armies) may overlap and then MTW does'nt load.

It appears that MTW does some checking of the various Port/Origin/castle poitions relative to each other WHEN LOADING and won't load if it finds these x/y coords are too close to each other.

I'm looking at this newly discovered problem now and will address it in LMM5 (BTW: I'm looking the new LMM5 will solve the problem with non-XP systems running out of memory as the code has to be divided into 4 seperate utilities).

I understand you now have a new map that just covers Greece and Asia Minor (Turkey) which will probably be better in times of the sizes of your Greek provinces. As per my E-mail send me your "Ref_Features.bmp" after you've split your provinces and tries a quick "Start Test" run and I'll take a look.

One possibility is (if Greece is still too small on your map) is to create a composite map enlarging Greece by 50%-100% as CA do with the island in the Med. May look a bit strange at first but this would your problem.

Trouble is, scalewise, if your doing a Greece/Persia type mod the areas to be covered via map may result in Greece being too small.

Send me the stuff and I'll take it from there.

Welly.

[komninos]

Hi Welly,

The new map covers Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Constantinople and Nicaea of the original map. The areas look small but not too small. I have blown up some ilands like Cefalonia, Korfu, Zakinthos and grouped others like Cyclades, Sporades, parts of Dodecanies and the norther Aegian ilands. So for them you might see a casle that stands on water but it would simbolize a castle in the largest iland.

I have it almost ready ... have to run the test thing but the csift licence has expiered on top of all other things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
and the test bed map wich is that of England in VI with the factions changed to Hellenic using the new units does not apear in the game for no apparent reason http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Any way I will keep on moding and see what it happens
Thanks Welly.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ June 21 2003,05:49)]I have it almost ready ... have to run the test thing but the csift licence has expiered on top of all other things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Komninos,

If the csift licence has expeired just download another version and copy it into your System32 folder.

Chestsoft allow multiple downloads when the licence expires (I download a new version every month at present) as this is necessary when your developing something using a Chestysoft product.

Welly

[komninos]

Welly that was quick http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Yes I know ... done it already I hope It passes the first stage of groupmap uther wize I will have to build every thing else from scrach while lerning it. By the way when the V.5 will be aveliable? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[komninos]

Hi all, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Just to get the you all exited ... The Geometric Period part is at a good 70% (if I can get the map it would be great).
I will get some eye candy for you this afternoon for the battles.

Things to do:
Finalize the test bed. (the dam thing doesn't show up with the campaigns I know it is something minor but were it is that's the problem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )

[flip]

Good news,

can we know what units are you planing for Carthage and Persian? In Persian Wars I would love to see Numidian, Celts and Iberian troops for the Carthaginians. For this version what are you doing?

[komninos]

OK

Some bad news ... the persian wars are off line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif web space needed.

So here are the photos
The Dark age Polemiste in front line backed by javeliners ans archers
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000000.gif
From close
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000001.gif
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000002.gif
The attack
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000003.gif
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000004.gif
and they flee
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000006.gif
Dark age Cavalry
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000011.gif
Celtic Attack
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000014.gif
The battle
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000015.gif
Yet an other victory
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000017.gif
Re grouping
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000019.gif
The final charge
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000020.gif
Dark Age Hopites
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000023.gif
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000024.gif
On the march
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000025.gif
Chaaaarge
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/00000026.gif

[Sir Robin]

WOW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[flip]

GOOD

Komninos, I'm preparing new icon units to add to my site.
Are you needing some specific?
MTW ancient units (http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/)

[komninos]

Hi flip,

I owe you two answers …
I need one new unit the pelemiste …. I have something ready as you have seen but not working properly. Also … a sepia color is mach better than black and white also used in the big bif files for the unit descriptions. Can you have a go on those bifs two “campmap/Info_pics”.

On the Carthege / Persian … this is a tricky one. Yes as a side kick I have renewed the affords on the Ancient mod and frankly it is a lot easier (no new map) but starts at late Hellenistic age just when Rome had the Italian peninsula under its grasp. There I will use the Carthage but it will take some time to get final on that.

[flip]

Komninos, I send you a email

[Rosacrux]

I am impressed... Komninos, carry one babe, you are doing a great job.

Here are some descriptions I've worked on. I didn't catch up on your last request on how the descriptions should be, so I made them in a rather abstract format. Tell me what else you need on those, giving an example and an appropriate file, and I'll do it.

so... here are some geometrical era descriptions:


Quote[/b] ]Geometrical era (”dark age”) units

Polemistes
The Dorian invaded the Helladic area in the 11th century BC and brought with them weapons made of Iron and better armor, bringing down the civilization of the early antiquity and initiating the “dark ages” of the Greek world. The Polemistes is the standard warrior that emerged during this period. A generic all-rounder, capable of skirmishing and fighting hand-to-hand equally.

Medium armor, standard morale, carrying a medium shield, armed with javelins and spear. Build with only a fort.

Early Hoplite
The evolution of the metallurgy and the creation of small, independent City-states, brought forth a new kind of warrior, that would dominate the battlefield for the next 4 centuries, the hoplite. The distinctive trait of the hoplite, besides them being the free citizens of the City-states, was the hoplon, the large round shield that offered great protection, and the fighting in a tight, deep formation called “phalanx”.

Good armor (breastplate), rather slow high morale, armed with spear, carrying a hoplon shield.

Psilos Javelin
The lesser classes of the Greek city-states would also serve their state, when needed, but not with great determination. Those armed with javelins would make decent skirmishers, but when engaged hand to hand they wouldn’t stand a chance.

No armour, no shield, very poor moral, very weak attack, very weak defense, armed with javelins

Psilos sling
The lesser classes of the Greek city-states would also serve their state, when needed, but not with great determination. Armed with a sling, a psilos would make a basic missile unit, but their commander should avoid by all means a close encounter.

No armour, no shield, very poor moral, very weak attack, very weak defense, armed with sling

Psilos bowman
The lesser classes of the Greek city-states would also serve their state, when needed, but not with great determination. The bows of the era were not of great quality, but they served their purpose. Hand to hand combat is not an option for those early bowmen, for they will fall like flies.

No armour, no shield, very poor moral, very weak attack, very weak defense, armed with bow

Hippis
The Greek mounts were not of great quality, nor did they abound, at least in the southern region. But the wealthier citizens during the early stage of development of the Greek world, would serve as Hippis. Armed with a spear and a sword and wearing adequate armour they played their role in the early battlefield, mainly by hunting down the skirmishers and covering the wings of the early phalanx.

Good armour, high moral, standard attack, good charge, weak defense, armed with spear, no shield.

Akondistes
The mainstay of a city-state army were the hoplites, but the need for a small standing force has led to the development of lighter fighters, more professional and thus able to stay in arms for greater periods. The akondistes found their place in the battlefield as skirmishers, but they could also hold their own in hand-to-hand combat, as long as they weren’t expected to deal with hoplites.

Very light armour, standard moral, weak attack, weak defense, armed with javelins, a small sword and carrying a light shield

Slinger
The sling was a weapon of choice in many areas of Greece, especially in the Dodekanese islands. A good slinger could be a lethal warrior, especially if well trained from childhood. Other missile units of the era, like the psiloi, wouldn’t stand a chance against the trained slingers.

Very light armour, standard moral, weak attack, weak defence, armed with sling and a buckler, (upped range and lethality)

What do you think?

[komninos]

Hi Rosacrux,

Ola kala alla oxi kai babe re file Sory for the rest of you for the Greek here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Thanks for the descriptions also. The only thing (I hope)that would change in WTM:VI is the Projectile stats.
Her we will have.
Crossbow - Gastraphetes -
~300m range, high speed, very slow reload, armor modifier 0.2 penetrate man, hit chance 80%.
Arbalister -???-
handgun - light sling -
~70m range, low speed, fast reload, armor modifier 0.9, ~0.6 leathal, hit chance 70%
Arcubusier - Sling -
~100m range, medium speed, fast reload, armor modifier 0.8, ~0.8 leathal, hit chance 80%
NINJ - Staff Sling (Rodian) -
~125m range, high speed, not so fast reload, armor modifier 0.7, ~1 leathal, hit chance 90%

[Rosacrux]

Komninos

Ela re filarako, xoris parexigisi, sxima logou itane http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

What are you going to use for the bowmen, toxotes and Cretan Toxotes? Also, you might want to tone down the sling lethality a tad... You can fiddle all you like with the projectilestats, I guess we'll have to run extensive tests upon the completing of the units, to balance things out anyway.

Besides the descriptions that go into the appropriate txt file ("Descriptions") would you need something else? I'll have 3-4 hours this week free of professional and family obligations so I might put some work in it. I plan on finishing all the Greek units descriptions (maybe even before Friday) but is the description all you need?

I can provide you with hero and leader names for the Greek factions too, but not until the next week.

How is the map progressing? I see you are having some problems... an ancient Greek mod on the standard MTW map would look funny, but might be inevitable.

Ta leme

[komninos]

Yes the map thing is a major pain in the b...

I have started as a sidekick the Ancient mod again that starts in late Hellenistic times and use it to cool down after the Hellenic one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

This is a much easier mod. dellete most existing units create new ones that some are all ready made for other mods and the the factions ready I have a small Hellenic league faction Selucides Ptolemeans, Romans, Carthegians and a bunch of barbarians to wipe out. Though in the end the barbarian teritories would have big rebelion numbers so to cool them off it will take time.

[LeBob]

Good jobs on this mod.

Are you planning of actually make a complete Campaign mod (with new background, campmap pieces, music...) ?
As far as I know for now there are only really two (excluding the Patrician one that seems on a halt)...the Napoleonic Mod and the LOTR mod.
I must tell you (since working on the Nap one) that it is a lot of work...and you will need a team of at list 5 to 10 people to make fast and good progress.

That was just a little comment....Keep the wonderfull job

Lord Le Bob

[Lotar]

If you'ra still looking for maps, check out this site http://www.studylight.org/se/maps/browse.cgi?st=115#087

[komninos]

Thanks Lotar but I have something better. E sattelite image of grate (it is acualy two images of 4000x4000 pixels) redolution of the Earth. From that I just got the part that I am interested in (you can see that small cycladitic islands in it&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

The problem comes that I did the map in a ~4000x3000 and now LMM generates an error that the map is too bit so I have to make it again and with less areas http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I have contacted Welly on this ... I just hope the big map makes it

LeBob
Yes this was inspired by the Patrician mod (acualy I started a Patrician like mod just in case this has map problems with vi). I it going to be a total converison but I will try to keep the effects of it as minimal as posible to the game. (Only the Projectiles will need to be substituted).

If I can get the basic map image and the coordinates working then with my tools I can get a basic working campaign map in a week and a detailed ... in two week ends depens on the detail

=======================

Just a note here.
The slingers are in ... final testing with flags and I hope by the end of the weekend I will upload the test bet with 8 factions (6 Hellenic, 2 Celtic for the moment)

Tested the slinger ... They were two strong lowered the vales still very lethal but they will not do much on the phalanx. on lighter troops ... better to keep them well of range

[komninos]

Hi all,

Yes the testbed is ready ... Unfortunatly the problem with the edge of the screen is not solved so it will crush to the desktop when in campaigne mode the cursor will reach the edge of the screen.
Here is the readme file ...
===========================================================
These files compose the test bed for the Hellenic Total War mod.
The map and the factions are that of the VI.
The Hellenic Dark Age units are almost done. Two factions the Picts and the Vikings have a number of Celtic units for test.

To Install the mod unzip the TEST_hellenic-testbed.zip in to the main directory of MTW:VI
Usually "C:\Program Files\Total War\Medieval - Total War" then unzip the TEST_hellenic_Textures.zip file to get the textures.

Problems
Major ... Still unsolved ... The game will crush to the desktop in campaign if your cursor reaches the edge of the screen ... no the map Why ... still searching ...

Minor ... have to fined a way to display the faction shields of the shield of the Hoplites.

Things to do ...
For one ... get the map ready
===========================================================

Here are the links for them ...
The Testbed files (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic-testbed.zip)
The texture files (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic_Textures.zip)

Have fun

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks to the vigilance of flip the errors in the uploaded files have been corrected. You can get them now. The actions page was missing and the Info pics folder was miss slepd

Thanks flip
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[komninos]

Hi all,

I don’t know how many of you have downloaded the testbed files for the Hellenic Total War but all that had must have seen the bug with the edge of the screen in the campaign mode.

I have finally managed to play a more or less 10 in the campaign mode with out crushing How … this way and this makes things even more complicated
I found that I could move the screen around with the arrow keys with out crushing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
AND if you don’t move your pointer near the top, left and right part of the screen you don’t get a crush http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

If anyone can help please do the thing is driving me nuts and it get worse by the minute. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ShadesPanther]

When i downloaded it it said buildings are not parsed and should be before units

Dunno what this means anyhelp would be appreciated

[Emp. Conralius]

Same Here

[komninos]

This means that it can't find the units (usaly the file it self, do you get the units in the game or you get a CTD)... I will have a look at it must be something I forgot to put.
===================================
After having a look at it I just can't find out why it behaves this way but VI shims to have some problems locating files. Though it works for me fine ...
Please do this for me if you are faced with this problem.
in campmap/startpos/ the Hellenic.txt is the campaign file.
Open it and in it you will find this line:
Prodfiles:: UNITPROD "Hellenic_unit_prod.txt" BUILDINGPROD "vikings_build_prod.txt"
Check that these files exist in your MTW directory.
The Hellenic_unit_prod.txt is provided with the mod files the other should be there IF you have the VI
copy, paste the vikings_build_prod.txt and rename it to Hellenic_build_prod.txt then go to the Hellenic.txt file and change the above line to:
Prodfiles:: UNITPROD "Hellenic_unit_prod.txt" BUILDINGPROD "Hellenic_build_prod.txt"
This does nothing but make the VI look at the same data under a different name but it just might do the trick

If you have this problem also contact me by PM or mail so I can fix it ASAP.

Thanks

[komninos]

Hi,

the map is almost ready ... at least the bitmaps of it ... a lot of work has to be done in the campaigne file and to incert it in th egame

But here is the map it self:
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/factionsmap.jpg

For the knolegeable of you I will need some help with the names of the map ... I have put some but others are not yet done. This one is big so get it here (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/RegionNames.gif)
The seas are not named but they are the least of the problems faced.

PS.1. Remember we need the ancient names not the existing names
PS.2. Now that I look of it I missed some areas ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif like sporades but then again ... is that there ancient name???

[Wellington]

Komninos,

You'll have mail shortly.

The version of the map your currently using looks great to me. The way you've split the Greek provinces and the various island groups is fine. All these provinces are suitable (size-wise) for your mod.

Having examined your "Ref_Features.txt" and the maps you sent me you obviously know what you are doing - I've sent a few ideas to you now (E-mail) and will send you the new LMM5 versions when they are finished - 1 or 2 weeks

These new versions of LMM (LMM5) will hopefully be a lot easier to use and will assist in your existing problems ("Water on land features" - which are now automated in LMM5).

Basically, your map of "Greece/Island groups/Asia minor" looks fine for your Hellenic mod and also is fine for using within the MTW engine.

Just 1 thing. It appears your building your mod for VI. LMM5 will only support (initially) MTW 1.0 and MTW 1.1 but not VI.

This means that LMM5 can create several files that are compatible with both VI and MTW -

- MapTex.tga
- Maptex2.tga
- the 4 mini BIFs
- the 2 LBMs (lukmaps)

but the actual Script.txt and the various translated files in "Loc/Eng" will still be pertaining to MTW, and not VI, for the 1st release of LMM5.

Expect mail.

regards,
Welly

[komninos]

Hi Wellington,

Thanks for the help and don't warry about the integration with VI. I have my tools for the campaign files that I use. The script.txt file data will be incerted and used so the final output will be VI compatible. And if all goes well I will sort out the CTD problem with the edge of the screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif it is driving me nuts.

PS. I remeamber reading that there is no bitmap size problem but I was forced to reduce the original size so that it will pass though LMM. Is there a max image size after all or it is a limitation of LMM?

[Rosacrux]

Hi Komninos... I hope you'll fix the map problem...

In the meanwhile, as the official historical advisor for this mod, I've done some work on the map location naming... tough job, if you ask me, because your regions do not allways represent ancient regions. Seems like I'll have to attribute some of those regions to the largest city-state located within.

but we have some more or less (usually less...) historically accurate ones, which are:



SUGGESTIONS


Smolensk: Korinthia

Ryazan: Thessalia

Croatia: Phrygia

Constantinople: Karia

Hungary: Euboea

Anatolia: Paphlagonia

Georgia: Lykia

Armenia: Pisidia

Edessa: Tauros

Nicaea: Melitine

Trebizond: Ancyra

Poland: Thracia

Scotland: Dalmatia

Volhynia: Dacia

Freisland: Eso Moesia

Toulouse: Moesia


SUGGESTED CHANGES


Dassaratae: Illyrikon is much more accurate

Southern dodekanese: Maybe you should use the term “Doris”

Chania: Kydonia (the major city-state of the area)

Heraklion: Phaistos (the major city-state of the area)

Illium: Troas

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ July 04 2003,07:35)]Hi Wellington,

Thanks for the help and don't warry about the integration with VI. I have my tools for the campaign files that I use. The script.txt file data will be incerted and used so the final output will be VI compatible. And if all goes well I will sort out the CTD problem with the edge of the screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif it is driving me nuts.

PS. I remeamber reading that there is no bitmap size problem but I was forced to reduce the original size so that it will pass though LMM. Is there a max image size after all or it is a limitation of LMM?
Komninos,

I think the problem with the CTD is because the lukmaps generated have areas of white in them (check the Maptex.bmp in the MTWFiles folder).

The reason is that you've used the "SameRegion=" feature by adding a few yellow pixels (RGB 255,255,0) to indicate which regions should be considered the same. Just 2 small problems here -

1) you've use the same colour for all regions where I think your intention was to have several regions (islands) connected to different land masses. Looks to me like you have should have 4 same regions but you shoudl use a slightly differently RGB colour for each of these.

For example, use 255,55,0 for one pair of regions that are the same region, and 255,255,10 for the 2nd pair, 255,255,20 for the 3rd pair and 255,255,30 for the 4th pair. In this way LMM will know which 'islands' should be associated with which land regions.

2) you havn't coded the "SameRegion=" parameters in "Parameters.txt" - this is why these regions are still white (LMM does'nt know it should check for these).

Just add the parameters -

SameRegion=(255,255,0)
SameRegion=(255,255,10)
SameRegion=(255,255,20)
SameRegion=(255,255,30)

- and this should solve the problem.


MTW (and VI presumably) have a limitiation on map sizes. The maximum TGA size is 4096x3072 (Hires) and 2048x1536 (Lores). These are not just the maximum sizes but ALL MTW map TGAs must be this size. LMM allows any map size up to this maximum and if its smaller than the maximum LMM borders the users maps with either the standard MTW "wood" or a border tile that the user provides.

Welly.

[komninos]

Hi Welly,

I didn't get yuor mail yet ... waiting to test them.


Quote[/b] ]I think the problem with the CTD is because the lukmaps generated have areas of white in them (check the Maptex.bmp in the MTWFiles folder).

Till now I am using the existing map of England and not my map The thing is very strange though you can move around the map with the cursor keys, the game works fine till the moment your pointer (mouse) reaches the edge of the screen ... then it freezes and CTD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif The thing is that there is nothing that simce ubnormal to the files that build the mod. Both the battles and the campaign work fine (functionality wize) but even if you avoid the boarders of the srceen at some point will freeze up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

But thanks for the info on the LMM. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

================================================

For thouse facing the "uildings are not parsed" has to do with the name of the buildings file so
copy VIKINGS_BUILD_PROD.TXT
and rename it to
Hellenic_BUILD_PROD.TXT
Then go to campmap\startpos open Hellenic.txt
and find the "Prodfiles" flag and make it as follows:

Prodfiles:: UNITPROD "Hellenic_unit_prod.txt" BUILDINGPROD "Hellenic_BUILD_PROD.TXT"

[komninos]

Hi all,

I can proudly announce that the test bed is officially OK
You can download it from the beta directory of the org or simply click:
Hellenic Total War Testbed (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic-testbed.zip)
Hellenic Total War Testbed Textures (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic_Textures.zip)

There is no strange CTD ... the "why" there was still eludes me But I have played a full campaign on the map of England I can say there is no problem with it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I just hope nothing pops up when I use the map of Greece http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Just for fun ... does anyone know how to activate the special faction shields on any unit? ... Welly? I would like to use this feature on for the hoplites so in every period every faction will have a different emblem on their shields.

One more thing ... have you ever playd in a winter terain in MTW it does no happen very offten but it is exelent

[Duke John]

Hey guys,
I'm glad you are progressing nicely with the mod I said before that I am going to make some unit graphics, well that is delayed somewhat. At the moment I'm working very hard to get the LotR first release finished. When they're done the ancients units will be very quickly done, unless you insist on the different actions you have descriped; how the hoplites use their spear. If you don't I can reuse the weapon and shield coordinates from the LotR mod. If you do then you will have to do it by yourselve because they're very timeconsuming to do.
Do you want faction colours displayed onto the units? Or can I make a standard unit that uses shields to differentiate from other factions... much easier.

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Hi Duke John,

The hoplites had a very distinctive way of fighting … but in the name of Time to Market we can do with what you have. One thing only the shield should always point directly forward can this be done easily … I am mot familiar with the way you make units and there is no one to do them any way so it is all up to you if you can accommodate the way the hoplites fight on a later date then it is fine with me.

One thing you said that you can display the faction colors on the shield … this is just the colors or the emblem of the faction also? What I would like to have is its faction to have a totally different pattern on their shields. Have you got any idea how this can be done?


Other news …
Thanks to Welly and Rosacrux the map is ready to be inserted in the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif On my last attempt the MTW froze up and did’t load http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif . But I think I can make it work some how … the problem is that if I can’t we might have to port the mod to the original.
There is also a glitch in the map … one area has 16 neighbors … I think MTW accepts only 15 so this has to be amended.

I have almost all the Hellenic units of classical era ready Just cavalry and some special units have to be done.

I have changed the Vikings to Lydians I think the Picts will be changed either to Thrasian, Illirian or Phrigians.

I have not yet made any units of the non Hellenic units … I will take the Lydians first. The have an interesting army compositions since they are the only power that depends heavily on heavy horse formations. They fought bitterly with the Ionian cities especially with Smyrna that after a bitterly campaign they burned it to the ground. They city disappeared till the Alexandrian times that the city was rebuild near the sea where it still stands.

[Duke John]

"One thing you said that you can display the faction colors on the shield… this is just the colors or the emblem of the faction also?"

We can insert different shield emblems into the BIFs. For example the peasant BIF has multiple shields. We can easily do that too, as long as you provide me the designs. I am not so sure about the faction shields as they seem hardcoded in some way.

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Hi Duke John,

Things like that make me wont to revert back to v1.1 ... any way I short out the shields and send them when you will be ready. Only the shields are kind of flat show you will have to put them on a object and render them to get them more realistic.


Any way … how easy is it to make the unit bifs?
Exactly how many can you make?

[Duke John]

"Any way … how easy is it to make the unit bifs?"
It took me about 2 months to get this far. It may look easy but it's pretty hard to learn all the tricks and correct usage of all the programs. One day I might make a guide, but writing down everthing is not something to look out for.

"Exactly how many can you make?"
At the moment I must find the time to figure out the weapon and shield positions for my human models. Once I'm done with that, I can possibly churn out a model every two days. I've made a great setup that only requires a new model as input and the rest is just pushing buttons.

[komninos]

Hi Duke John,

As I said when you are ready to make them contact me and I will send the shield images. I know it is hard work but once you get all the right positions then it comes out fast. The good news is that our hoplites fight all in tha same way ... Almos all since the Pike ones use both arms ...

=========================

Map news ... The map was fixed and now it can play at the V.1.1 exelently IN IV ... I can't get the thing to appeare in the selection srceen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif but ... in time it will

[Yelping Godzilla]

Hmm. Initially I didn't think this mod would be my cup of tea, but seeing the effort and thought going into it, I've done a U-turn. I'll be checking the progress on this one regularly. Keep up the good work :]

EEUURAAH.

[Lord Of Storms]

Hi Komninos, Looks like you are making great progress, I especially like the look of your map it is very different and adds a nice touch, I am glad to see you were able to incorporate your new campmap to VI, the SetmapTextures feature makes this alot simpler than V1.1.MTW I have done alot of experimenting with new maps and VI seems to handle them better as far as changing from one to another via the SetMapTextures command, opens up alot of possibilties for multiple map usage. Once I get some more free time after the Nap Mod work I am doing slows down I plan to try more things with the Maps, I look forward to trying your mod, keep up the good work. LOS

[Rosacrux]

Excellent Komninos, you are my main man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Would you post somewhere the final map (not the in game version, a jpg or tiff) to go through it once more and correct potential problems with the provinces names?

About the units: which units have you done for the classical age? so I can write the descriptions and all.

Keep on

[komninos]

Lord Of Storms,

The map is not inserted in the VI yet ... I don't know if anyone has done it. I just can't make the campaign appear in the selection menu even if only the area definitions change In the original it is incorporated instantly. This makes me think that the mod could be switched to the 1.1 version and work a lot better there.

Rosacrux

I will try to get a small zip with JPG versions of the map. It will be a bit harder to read the text but they will be significantly smaller. From the classical period I have done.
Classical Hoplite
Ekdromos hoplite
Peltast
Xistophoroi hippis
Javelin cavalry - I made this aveliable in all periods
Spartan hoplite
Skirites
Thessalian cavalry
One question ... do the following units belong to this period?
Theban hoplite, Theban light cavalry, Iphikratian hoplite.
BTW ... I will be on holiday from tomorow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and for the next week ... I will try to check out from time to time to answer any questions. Progres will begin again from the week after so have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
============================
Rosacrux,
Here are the maps (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/Test_Hellenicmaps.zip). In this zip you can see the regions map, the original map image, and the factions map. In the small txt file are the factions and there attributes/asingments to this mod.

[ShadesPanther]

What about the Theban Sacred Band, were they later?
I know Alexander of Macedon destroyed them and they were supposedly elite

[Rosacrux]

Jolly good Komninos, I'll check those out and post results later in the week. As for the Sacred Band, I think that should be the Theban specific hoplite unit in the classical age.

[komninos]

Hi all,

Back again ... and this means you might get an updated download with the Classical units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

=====================================================

Any one that could give me some pointers on how to insert the new map in VI would be greatly appreciated.

=====================================================

The Thebian Secret Lochos (regiment) was a special unit. In hoplite combat moral was all there was to it. Spartans were the best they knew it and everyone else did to so this gave them an advantage.
If you deserted your line decreased you in the eyes of your companions This is what glued the hoplites together. This is why they placed people of the same neighbourhood beside one another. You would not desert a friend The Thebians took that a step farther, the Secret Lochos was made out of lovers for the simple reason ... you might desert a friend but you would never desert a fallen lover This gives them an extra moral point and that is exactly what they will get. The Spartans will have a +1 attack point and an advantage in moral but not as high as these guys. Now the area they should appear ... is not clear to me ... I think they appeared after the or during the Peloponnesian war so they would be "Late" ... Rosacrux?

=====================================================

Rosacrux,

Can you do some descriptions on the units and eras even for the ones I hve not modelled ... I am not confident with the ones that are left so this will give me an idea on how to model them.

Thanks

=====================================================

flip,

Have you done any work on building icons?

[Lord Of Storms]

Quote[/b] ]Any one that could give me some pointers on how to insert the new map in VI would be greatly appreciated.

I have not had the time to test this fully but it seems pretty straight forward using the SetMapTexturesSubDir command,(in your startpos) just follow the file structure for textures/campmap, insert your new map tex 1 & 2 and the lukupmaps etc and name it say "hellenic" keep it simple you need not specify the full path as per the instruction in this heading.
Set the sub-directory where this
// gametypes map files can be found.
//
// If undefined the 'default' directory
// off 'textures\campmap' will be used.
//
// The following files must be located
// in the subdirectory you specify here
// off 'textures\campmap'.
// eg. 'textures\campmap\vikings'
//
// 1) Frontends campaign map + lookup map,
// for displaying factions start positions.
//
// 2) Strategy map main texture + lookup map
// for regions. Note: Both these images must
// be the same size.
//
// 3) Strategy map radar and lookup map.
//
// 4) All tradable goods icons.
//
//=======================================

// Do not specify the full path,
// only requires the name of the subdirectory off textures\campmap.

SetMapTexturesSubdir:: "vikings"
So if you put items 1-4 in a new folder name it "hellenic" (just an example)with your new maps and lukups of course, it should work. emphasis on SHOULD good luck . LOS

[komninos]

Good News, Bad news ... working,

Hi all, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The good news first I finaly made it The Hellenic map is in the game ... you can select the campaign with the new map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

The bad news now ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
1. Though you can select it and the thing load up fine it CTD when it tries to dislpay the the camp map ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
2. For some strange reason the areas are totaly mixed up and nothing to do with how they are placed from the LMM

Unfortunatly both these are fatal but the main think is IT IS IN THE GAME Yeeesssssss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

==================================================

LoS, ... thanks I will check what Mr.EGG has managed to do ... most probably I will contact him for this.

==================================================

Rosacrux,
The Cretan Archers and Lydian Archers are ready http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Rosacrux]

Okie dokie Komninos, I'll try to get them all ready in a couple of days... work has taken me down this week (last before vacations... very very tough).

[Rosacrux]

OK, here are some more unit descriptions. If you really need some images of those, Komninos, I'll provide you with some links later... or I might do so anyway (depends on how work goes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ).


Classical Hoplite (or Hoplite)
During the classical era the hoplite became the most feared warrior of the ancient world. The Greek hoplites of the era, with better armor and weapons, dominated the battlefield. All city states of the Greek world used hoplites, but only free citizen with full civic rights had the right to wield the hoplon and take part in the phalanx.

Heavily armored, strong charge, good attack, great defense, armed with spear and round shield. Very high morale.

Ekdromos hoplite
During the late 5th century BC, the abundance of professional skirmishers in the Helladic area, like the Thracian Peltasts, led to the development of a lighter variation of the hoplite, the ekdromos hoplite. They wore no armour at all (no breastplate, no greaves) and their defensive gear was only the hoplon/aspis shield. So they gained more mobility, while keeping the basic sturdiness of the hoplite phalanx. Usually the younger hoplites would serve as ekdromoi.

Lightly armoured, strong charge, good attack, good defence, armed with spear and round shield, high morale.

(you can present them with a cloack, not of red colour of course – those are for the Spartan).


Peltast
From Thrace originates this type of warrior that became the all-around fighter of the classical era. A peltast was as a lightly armoured, highly mobile, well trained professional skirmisher. The name derives from the “pelte”, the light shield they used as a defensive weapon.

Lightly armoured, fast, good attack, mediocre defence, armed with Javelins and sword. Medium morale.


Xistophoroi hippis
The cavalry was developed more during this period, when the Greeks had to face enemies that utilized cavalry as a vital party of their armies. The advantage of the armored xistophoroi hippis was their quite long spear (the “xyston”, hence their name) which was at least 3 meters long, giving them an advantage to many other types of troops. Nobody would expect them to charge into a tight hoplite phalanx, but in any other respect they were a very effective early heavy cavalry.

Medium armor, good attack, strong charge, mediocre defense, armed with spears, no shield.

Toxotes
The Greek archers of the era were better than those of most of their neighbours, although in the majority of the Greek states the bow was not a weapon of choice. But the Greek bow was a decent build and in the hands of trained men could be a lethal weapon. Nobody should expect the toxotes to hold their own against heavier infantry or cavalry.

Light armor, weak attack, weak defence, armed with bows, no shield.

Hippikon
Suited better for reconnaissance missions, for guarding the phalanx’s flanks and for hunting down the skirmishers, the hippikon was the light/medium cavalry of the era. The city states had few of those cavalrymen, but the northern Greek kingdoms produced greater numbers and of very good quality.

Light armor, good attack, weak defense, good charge, fast, armed with swords, no shield.

Phalangites
The Macedonian phalanx, invented by the King of Macedon Philip II, was the evolution of the hoplite phalanx only more effective. The basic unit of this phalanx was the phalangites, a lightly armoured footman, carrying a very long (6-7 meters) pike, called the Sarissa and carrying a small shield. Facing the wall of pikes that was the trademark of the Sarissa, few could hold their ground.

Light armour, very good attack, very good charge, great defense, armed with pikes, little shield.


Thireophoros
The revolutionary military concepts that emerged in the Helladic area during and after the pelloponesian war, included a body of well-armoured footmen, armed with javelins and a sword and carrying a type of oval shield, very much like the early Roman scutum, the “thyreos”. Those men, called thireophoroi, played a vital role in the 4th and 3rd BC centuries battlefield.

Heavily armored, strong charge, very good attack, good defense, armed with javelins, sword and oval shield. High morale

[komninos]

Hi all,

Do I have a surprise for you all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Check out the links and some time later I will tell you my problems with them.
something special (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/map1.jpg)
something special 2 (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/map2.jpg)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[LeBob]

WouHOU

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Rosacrux]

Damn you Komninos... you bloody did it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Man, if you were a woman I would marry you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

More descriptions coming in later. Just keep looking.

[Leet Eriksson]

The map is spectacular komninos,keep up the good work.you have any details i can look at in this mod(units,factions...etc)?

[komninos]

Hi Rosacrux,

I have not done it yet ... but I am at 90% I kill the Viking map so that the Hellenic one can play ... But it works for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif . Now do you think we should have 2 to 3 Ionian factions ... or the Ionian cities to be under the larger cities (Athens, Corinth, ...) If this is the case which ones?

==========================================================
Hi faisal,
I think you would be playing the Lydians http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . Interesting faction if it had played its cards well they could have bitten Persia. They have the heaviest cavalry of the era. They subdued the Medians and managed to subdue the Greek Ionian cities. They developed a similar fighting formation to the phalanx (most probably a copy of it).

Anyway I am not clear at what you are asking here ... if help is what you are offering you are most welcome.

I need:
1. info (that is descriptions) on the Lydian, Phrygian, Illyrian units.
2. Goods ... new goods, who to introduce them, names, images.
3. Flags and shields for the factions
4. Someone to deal with the buildings both production files, images and descriptions...

Pick one and let me know. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As I like to say this is not a mod ... it is a total conversion

[Lord Of Storms]

Quote[/b] ]. Goods ... new goods, who to introduce them, names, images.
Komninos, Check my post in the Dungeons Faq regarding adding new trade goods to VI, It outlines the whole process. LOS

[komninos]

LoS,

I have done it but ....
new goods are needed ... Statues, apples, oranges, holy items (from large temples or holy grounds), Omens (from Oracles like Delphi though this is not a good it generates huge income), ... etc all these need images and find where to put what ... there are 67 provinces in the map ... which ones had a what ... its weeks work trust me

BTW Have substituted some of the Viking good with MTWs good so there is olive ole, grain and wine. All provinces have goods and with the huge coast line of the map trade is fantastic. All provinces have at least two goods to trade so you get a lot of export/import stuff

========================================================

On other news ... v.0.9 is ready to be ziped ... it is going to be ~10 x 2MB files http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif sorry about that but what to do. I will make a self extracting rar to get better compression. In this you will get a big bunch of new units (including Illirians and Lydians), the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif , and a cupple more stuff ... more refined.

========================================================

With the help of LK in the Adding a new expansion to VI thread ... I managed to run the Hellenic Total war in its own folder I will fix some details in the map and get ready for v.0.9

[Leet Eriksson]

sorry not active alot in the guild anymore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif,but may how big is the file?

[komninos]

Hi all,

The v.0.9 is ready http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ... and it is only four files ~2MB so not that big. You can get it from the beta section of the orgs downloads or from these likns.
the mod (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic-TW_mod.zip) - It installs all the files needed.
the map (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic_campmap.zip) - well ... this one has the ... map ...
textures 1 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic_textures.zip) - Unit textures and files 1
Textures 2 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_hellenic_textures2.zip) - Unit textures and files 2

You will fined a readme.txt ... please read it, I spent 1 houre to make the zip files today and 30min went to this file and for a good reason the insallation instructions are in there ... so follow them.

In the Textures\campmap\Hellenic there are two images MapTex2.JPG and MapTex.JPG. Convert these to TGAs. if you have a problem send me a PM.

[LeBob]

Komninos,

Some time ago Dimeolas proposed to help with the units. He is an artist and do 3D characters. At the time someone said that you couldn't use the picture. Well, I would suggest to reconsider and to try to do what is being done for the lORT mod....
make the 3D models and find out how they do to change them into game units.

Just a though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
PS: Dimeolas, I have a project for you. Could you contact me at cte_fan@yahoo.com

Thanks

Lord Le Bob

[komninos]

Hi LeBob

Duke John has offered his help in this direction but after he gets some of the LotR units down. Most probably some of the units there will have the same movement characteristics so he will be able to use them and just retexture them so this will be "fast". I will try to fines Dimeolas ... the name looks Greek so he might find it more interesting hopefully I would like to get some totally new units for it.
===========================================================
On a second note have you down loaded the mod? ... does it play well? ... I am scared to death that something is not in there ... just way to many files.

[flip]

Hi Komninos,

Tested, so far no CTD in campaign mod, good work, and what about the bifs that I send to you ?, they aren't there.
No time to work on buildings pics for now, but we can talk about change that "barbarian" portraits.

See you

[komninos]

Hi flip,
nice to hear from you ...
I was sure that you would comment on them ... well the ones you sent were already done and inserted so ... I did not change them ... I have developed a fast paced method for unit development ... I can produce a unit in ~15 - 30min.

Any way there are a million thing I need and portraits for all is one thing I need. I was thinking of turning the Lydians to Muslim and using there portraits, Frigians would use the MTW pagan, Illyrians and Thracians the Celtic and the Greeks new ones. But if you can make portraits for them fine with me ... an excellent finishing touch.

===========================================================

Just a note ... If you get a crush from a siege battle then in the battle directory there is a maps and in there a vikings copy, paste and rename it to Hellenic.

===========================================================

note No.2 I am not very confident about some of the units in the game so they might change in the future.

[Antalis::]

WOWWW

Really impressive


Your map and mod are really great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[ShadesPanther]

That can be good enough for a full version. Except maybe that the Lydians and Illyrians lack unit descriptions.

Exceptional mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif can't wait for 1.0 so i can bend the hellenic penninsula to the will of the Macedonians

[Antalis::]

I have added names to the provinces.

But this names are in german, but I think that it is no problem to read them, because most are very similar to the english one.
I made it for my personal use, but I then I thought that maybe you can need it too.
Sorry I can´t change them into english, because my grafik- programm don´t allow it.
I give a little dictionary with the readme.

I tried to use only names that are really good for the region and followed in great parts komninos region name description.



So if there is an interrest for this added names to the provinces and komninos allow it, I will upload it to the org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

So let me know, if you like to have it.

[komninos]

Antalis::

That would be good ... can you sent me the files? I will check them. The problem is that most maps I get have the Roman names of the provinces and not there original names. Plus I don't know what were the names of many provinces on the map.

I will try to get an ancient Greek TT font and write the names ... in Greek or Greeklish (Greek in latin characters). By the way any one interested on redoing the Fonts of the game; Uning the ones made for the VI we can use the extra characters to make the missing letters.

[Antalis::]

Sure I´ll send it to you.

Can you give me your email- adress.


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[komninos]

Sent it to timoleon@otenet.gr

Thanks

[Antalis::]

I´ve sent you a mail with the changed map.

I hope you´ve got it.


Antalis::

[Leet Eriksson]

THIS IS ONE REALLY GOOD MODExcellent job komninos

Never played such a fun mod for some time

[Leet Eriksson]

btw had a hard time installing,i'd suggest you make an installer next time for the less experienced.

[komninos]

Hi,

Thanks for the comments ...
Sorry faisal ... I will try but I don't think I can make an installer. I will just try to make the procedure and instructions a bit more frendly.

[Antalis::]

@komninos:

One Question: I like your map very much. Do you also have Sicily and the part from Italy above Sicily to add to the map as sattelite picture?: This was a very important part for greeks in ancient history. Syrakus (Archimedes you know) and so on. It was called Magna greca.
If you don´t have this part of the greek world to add to the map its ok, but it would be nice .

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Antalis::

[komninos]

Antalis::

This map is a magnifide part of a grater map that spans from England to the Russian far east with a resolution of ~40000x40000 the other half with the American continent is also ~40000x40000. They are about 150MB each and there aren't many programs that can actualy display them. A friend managed to open them and a map that displays from Greece till the middle east up the the golf area and as south as Sudan.

The problem is that the map can have specific dimensions and you can't have the ports and castels very close So Syracuse is out ... in some other mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Antalis::]

Ok, I see.


Great that you have found this satellite picture(s).

I like it more than the original MTW- map.



Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[neogerry]

great mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif is so fun i love it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
great job Kominos http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Antalis::]

One other point: If a soldier dies, he disapears completely, so there is no bodys lying around dead in the field.
Is there a way to fix this?


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Duke John]

This mod is going great Besides that little praise I come to tell you that at the moment I'm working on some models for your mod. I have the following things in mind:

Spartan Hoplite
- Equipped with spear and round shield. Has a helmet with plumes and cloak.
- Will have the following animations: charge with weapon overhead, run, walk, stand, die, fighting with weapon overhead.

Ekdromos Hoplite
- Equipped with spear and round shield. Has a helmet.
- Will have the following animations: charge with weapon overhead, run, walk, stand, die, fighting with weapon overhead.

Classical Hoplite
- Equipped with spear and round shield. Has a helmet with plumes. Heavily armoured.
- Will have the following animations: charge with weapon overhead, run, walk, stand, die, fighting with weapon overhead.

Phalangites
- Equipped with long spear. Heavily armoured.
- Will have the following animations: charge with pike, run, walk, stand, die, fighting with pike.

Light infantry: Peltast, Toxotes
- Can be equipped with bow, javelin, sling, sword(?). Unarmoured.
- Will have the following animations: charge with sword(?), run, walk, stand, die, throw javelin, slingshot, shoot arrow, fight with sword(?).

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Hi Duke John,

I am trying to be stingent with the Custom folders ... they are just 10.
At the moment I am using 4
heavy inf - hoplites
heavy cav
light cav
light inf

I know that at the end will need more that is why I try to keep everything with the lowest budget of folders. SO ...
You can make Spartans, Classical and also dark age hoplite in the same folder just use the shields have (and in that order.
the plumes thing ... Kings had a helmet with three plumes, Spartan officers had one perpendicular and normal hoplites none or one ... I think ...

Ekdromos uses no armour like other light units so put Ekdromos with the light units.

Toxote I think it should be a separate unit type ... remember they have a bow made of horns so it is really small in size.

Phalangites and Ificratian can go together ... They are not heavily armoured They had less armour than the rest just the linothorax Actually the most heavily armoured were the dark age hoplites (700BC) they had nearly full body armour. Check the images I have posted and have a peak at dbaol (http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm) images for these armies (no. 17, 24a, 32)

[Duke John]

Why won't we just replace existing BIFs?

You're suggesting that I give the Spartans, Classical the same BIF, but that will also mean I won't be doing plumes since they both have different ones. I might try to cram 2 units into one BIF but that will need further research.

After reading your post I get you only need the following BIFs:
- Light infantry
- Hoplites
- Macedonian infantry (did they really have those "knobs" on their helmets?)

Once I have a model it's pretty easy for me to make little differences that's why I proposed those five units. But if you care little for graphically different units, it's OK by me. I will still make them and put on my own hard disk
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Cheers, Duke John

ps Once I start posting screenshots I know I will have you in my grasp and you will let me make more models http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[komninos]

You have a point at replaycing the existing ones ... but I would like to make it as easy as posible to move from one to the other new the only file that is needed to be replaced it the projectiles.txt

Let me put it this way.
The Greeks can be cramped in 5 categories
Heavy-inf
Med-inf(later hoplites)
Light-inf
Toxote - cant put it any where
Heavy-cav
Light-cav
Then there are the northern (Illirians and Thracians) they can take place also in the light-inf since most of there units are ligh they use some hoplite like units so a
barbarian-hvy-inf can be used (like the hoplits check the dbaol for some nice images)
And then we have the Lydians, Phrigians and Persians.
Phrigians are more or less like all light-inf
Lydians and Persians will need hvy-cav, hvy-inf and Archer units of there own.
Now thats 10 bif types ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
If it is just for the Greeks then OK you can make them and anyone else can dowload and use them.
=========================================================
Now the smurfs hat ... Yes that the helmet they used ... I think it is the Thracian helmet. The south Greeks used the Corinthian but the Atheneans I think reverted to the lighter Thracian too with Ificratian hoplites.
=========================================================
For the shields check the ones I use. For Hoplites we will need ~6 shields for light also and at least 2-3 pelte (the crecent ones) and a hoplon for the Ekdromos. With the barbarian-hvy-inf bif we will have the Polemiste and the later Legion-like units so one plane hoplon-like for the barbarians and the Octaspis of the polemiste and some Celtic like ones. The thing gets complikated.

if need be I will kill one or two units of the game ... I plan on making a base for ancient warring on this mod next would be a prehistoric one with Egyptians, Mykineans ... etc

[Leet Eriksson]

if your gonna put ancient ones from the middle east PLEASE do the majan,medianite arabs and bediouns.medianites can be found at DBAOL.I'll provide info on majan if you want to include them.

[Lancer6969]

How about having someone do an INSTALLER for you. I want to install your mod, but I cant follow your ReadMe file. Maybe you could see if someone could do one for you, or atleast make it like the others. All the renaming is confusing to me... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[komninos]

Hi faisal,

I can see your interest in them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but these (you also) are a bit more to the south ... THOUGH if I manage to get the persians 1 or 2 camel units form the middle east will make it. But that has a big if I can make the Persians appear like the Mongols did

A new map is in the production pipline that will have them. But don't expect to do much with them ... they are light scirmisers.

===========================================================

Lancer6969,
I will see what I can do ... all these copy/rename stuff is responcible for the 4 files otherwise 8 would be the number. The next release though it will be an upgrade of this one that will add factions and units so it will be simple to install.

===========================================================

Can any one do shields / flags?

[komninos]

Hi,

Good news and bad new ...
The good news are that the V.1.0 is at 95% ready ...
The bad news are that I have to fined out what were the Phrigian units

They must have been light like the Illirian or the Thracian but what were they ... I don't know. Does anyone know ... I will build them just as the Illirian but more based on the archers.
==========================================================
I will also reduce the time span so it is going to start at about 700AD and at 750 you are going to get in to classical it looks like a very long time from 1000AD (300 turns)
==========================================================
Would any one like to build 3D objects (casltes, temples, ... etc) Wellincton has a new utility for that.

[Lancer6969]

Sounds great, cant wait. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Antalis::]

I found few pics:


A small pic of a phrygian light cavallery man (time?)look at a55s.jpg:
http://images.google.at/images?....20&sa=N (http://images.google.at/images?q=phrygian&svnum=10&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N)

Another pic of cavallary: http://images.google.at/imgres?....rl=http (http://images.google.at/imgres?imgurl=www.livius.org/gi-gr/gordium/warrior.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.livius.org/gi-gr/gordium/gordium.htm&h=264&w=263&start=49&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphrygian%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN)

This macedonian cav. man has a phrygian helmet:
http://images.google.at/imgres?....rl=http (http://images.google.at/imgres?imgurl=newlinedesigns.co.uk/gallery/contributor/25mm-macedonians/ma13.jpg&imgrefurl=http://newlinedesigns.co.uk/gallery/contributor/25mm-macedonians/ma13.htm&h=500&w=402&start=25&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphrygian%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN)

maybe phrygians? (can´t speack french): http://perso.wanadoo.fr/spqr/phry_art.htm

[komninos]

Thanks Antalis::,

Any way here is a breef up date ... to the project.
The Phrigians are ready ... but they don't have new unit pics ... I have used some of the existing ones of speed.
A lage part of copy/paste/rename stuff will not exist since most of it was for the flags ... I have a new set of flags as of this weekend that work for all exept Thrasian and Illirians ... I didn't know what to put for them.
A skythan archer is ready ... a very deadly unit I might add I might do a Skythan warior and cavalry and put them in Moesia region.

Still have to do for v.1.0
1. look at buildings and traid goods of each region ... especialy for the eastern ones.
2. Ancera rigion has to be renamed Gordion the capital of Phrigia and the rest of the names must be sorted out.
3. I still have a problem with the Phrigians ... the MTW does not load I am on it ...

Things to do for the end of the mod
1. Have to understand the name files used by the game so I can give you some names/heroes etc.
2. Build the Post-Classical units (the onse that will take you though the Peloponesian war http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )
3. Incert the Persian Empire and its units (have to fined out how first)
4. Incert the Gallatans and there units (have to fined out how first)
5. New buildings (images, names, ... etc)
6. Titles

Things for an add on.
1. New building structures using the MTTM
2. Roman Invesion Add-on pack (neet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
3. New models for artilery
4. Totaly new unit model (thanks to Duke John)
5. Some new battle maps and hystorical battles if any one is interested (There are a few Marathon, Thermopilae, Platee', Leuktra, ... etc)

[neogerry]

that sounds pretty good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
great job kominos http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Antalis::]

Yes, sounds great

When do you plan to release it? When will it be ready?
Can´t wait .


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[komninos]

Quote[/b] ]3. I still have a problem with the Phrigians ... the MTW does not load I am on it ...
I don't know what I did but I managed to sort it out have to pass it to the Classical file. Phrigians tested well ... They depend on Archers and light cavalry ... don't expect them to do well against the Greeks or the later Lydians. remember that in Greece the word Phrigian became synonymous to slave ... for a good reason.
=======================================
Problem solved ... Phrigians work OK
=======================================


Quote[/b] ]When do you plan to release it? When will it be ready?

Hi Antalis::,
Sorry to say but ... when I feal it is ready ... have to grab some screanies first, and do some map&unit work.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (komninos @ Aug. 12 2003,01:30)]
Zitat[/b] ]When do you plan to release it? When will it be ready?

Hi Antalis::,
Sorry to say but ... when I feal it is ready ... have to grab some screanies first, and do some map&unit work.
Yes, use as much time as you need for it.
Don´t hurry.


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[komninos]

Good news, bad news progress report....

Starting with the bad news...
Apparently there is nothing to control the events set in the game that means ... no Persians. The mod will have to be cut short up until the Persians get the Lydians ~540AD.

This Brings some reorganisation to the units in the mod along with a time adjustment.
So the mod starts at:
800AD Early - Geometric
700AD High - Late Geometric
600AD Late - Pro-classical
550AD Game End

So you would say what about Persian Wars, Peloponnesian War and Rise of Macedon....

Well The good news...

A new set of campaigns will be planned using the existing units but in a new file to represent the periods.
New campaign file will have the Persian War this will be the first add on. It will have the Classical period units plus ~8 - 10 for the Persians.
There will be a large Greek faction the Hellenic League composed of Lacedemonians, Athenians, Boetians neutral will be the Argians, Aetolians and the Thesalians (those were hostile actually). The Persians will cover the east part of the map while the Thracians will have a bad time since half of Thracian and all of Macedon belong to the King of Kings.
Some maps will be needed for this (Thermopile, Marathon) if anyone can do them.
Though this looks small in time frame I will let it grow. There were a lot of people that thought Greek City states should unite and I will leave it at that so you can actually unite them.
==========================================================
This actually failed so a Small campaign will focus on that ... Peloponnesian war and the rise of Macedon in the final pack.
This will use the high/late units from the Persian Wars plus some more ... Sariza wise.
===========================================================
Finally the report...
Yes after the news ... we are there and we are good. The final release is practically ready ... though you will still see the "Viking" names and heroes. But the rest works nicely.
I have move all things related to the packing directory and pack them ... that’s a full day job but I will try to do it in the next days.
For you ... practice some Phalanx fighting cause things are rough and it is all down to tactics

[komninos]

Forgot ... some sreen shots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Faction Selection
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/001.jpg

Some new units
from front Ekdromos, Skythan warband, Medium cavalry
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/002.jpg

The rest of the army
Hoplites, Skythan archers, ... BTW ... These are the Atheneans
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/003.jpg

The Lydians
Lydian Archers, Royal Cav, Lydian heavy inf.
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/004.jpg

hmmm ... I think you know how these are ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/005.jpg

All in a days job (500 hop Vs 1200 hvy inf & cav)
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/006.jpg

Well you should not mess with the Lacedemonians unless you know what you are doing
http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/007.jpg
One thing to notice from this last one ...
Check the number of killed vs the captured this is very comon if you fight light armies like the Eastern ones. when they brake free you should stop chasing them unless you have cavalry near by.

[ShadesPanther]

I notice the macedonian star is the 16 point version which has only been found on Philip's tomb which is probably the best choice as it was used by him and his "nobody" son http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Antalis::]

Good job komninos

Forget what I said: HURRY

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lancer6969]

Shouldn't the men be able to see over their shields? It looks really good, but the shields take up have there bodies. Maybe trim them up a little? I dont know, just a suggestion.

[Duke John]

Kominos,

Your shields are indeed looking a bit large, but I guess I'm telling anything new. To avoid such large graphics I suggest you paint/paste the new shield image over an existing shield image in a BIF. Both must be the exact same size and at the same place.
For example you could paint/paste the Macedonian shield over any round shield existing in the BIF you use for the hoplites. Then you can just reuse the shield coordinates files and you will have a perfect fitting shield without too much work.

Cheers, Duke John

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ Aug. 18 2003,10:55)]For example you could paint/paste the Macedonian shield over any round shield existing in the BIF you use for the hoplites. Then you can just reuse the shield coordinates files and you will have a perfect fitting shield without too much work.
Would'nt work DJ.

The reason being there are no MTW shield coordinate files that are suitable for the size and shape of a hoplite shield of Ancient Greece.

Considering such shields were in the region of 3 or 4 feet in diameter (covering between half and two-thirds of the body) such shield shapes/sizes just wer'nt used in the Medieval period. Flip had the same problems many months ago when doing Greek shields for King Davids "Patrician" mod.

They may look a look big, but new shield positioning parameters would have to be created for such units - simply because no suitable parameters exist for a large round shield.

[komninos]

Well I actually did lower them a bit so the head is visible but this is not very true either. The Hoplon covered the Hoplite from knee to the chin. It hang from the left shoulder with straps and it was maneuvered with one hand. Actually the Hoplites did hide behind the shield to protect the neck (this was the favourite target).

The shields are OK Duke John. When you do the hoplites you can use them but put the on a curved shape to give some photorealisom to them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

My problem is that I calculated the points of movement and now the shield moves a bit odd to the body.

But apart from that ... and other problems we are at 99% for V.1.1 .... I wish I had the descriptions of the units from Rosacrux for the release.

[Lancer6969]

Yeah, but those shields are covering more than their necks, it covers 3/4th the body. I think you should try to fix this, so that it covers the necks. It all looks great man, I am not trying to sound mean, I just am looking forward to this mod, and am trying to help you in anyway possible.

Good job Komninos http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[komninos]

So people V.1.0 is ready for packing and you will have it soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
No all though is 100% I will do a number of descriptions for the eastern and some new armies before the release.

I need some input from you people first ...
As ShadesPanther noticed I gave the Macedonians the star of Philip but this and the Lacedemonian Shield emblem is the only true simbles I could fined. Most are simbols from shields with the exeption of the Atheneans that I drew from the Athenean Dracma coin (now found in Greek Euros).

So The Thracians and Illirians don't have a new shield or emblem does anyone have something that we can use??

Also I think that the Northern tribes are way too powerfull at the begining due to the large number of provinces they have and the large number of rebel provinces around them. So Peonean faction will be oure 13th faction in V.1.1. They will be something between Thracian and Illirians and they will have access to some units from both sides.

The other broblem is the Ionian cities in the Ionia. They become easy pray fromt the Phrigians and the Lydians. Though they give them some truble. (It took 4 consecutive attacks from Lydians to take Ephesus and then a rebelion enaiolated them). So I am thingking of two or 3 minor factions to play the Ionians Or to give them to some factions so to establish there Identity and generate a cause for war.

What do you say???

[Lancer6969]

Sounds awesome, so when will the first version be released? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lancer6969]

Quote[/b] ] Maybe you can make them also beeing a major faction?


Why would you want to do that? Then there would be no point to minor factions.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

I dunno, great job, make the three minor factions in the Russian lands, ya know up in the Steppes.

[ShadesPanther]

are celtic lands to far north? as that would work for minor factions

[Lancer6969]

Good point, Celtic lands would be good too.

[komninos]

The origin of the Celtic Horde known as the Gaul’s to the west and Galatians to the East is in the area of Switzerland so Yes it is way out of the map to the North West. They are also out of time frame.

They can be put in a later patch in the Hellenistic period when they raided Greece and ended up in Central Turkey. The place is now known as Galatia.

In this time frame and map we can make only two minor barbaric factions. these are the same actual race the Scythes or Kymerians. The first raided the northern Thracian areas so they can be inserted in the very northern parts of the map. The latter are known to be the reason of the Phrygian Kingdom destruction. I have read they burned Gordion and they might have been the ones how at some time raided Sardis. It is reported the Sardis was raided by barbarians at some point and most of its population was slained. They were driven off by the Lydians round 500BC when they expanded to capture the entire area of modern Turkey.

At the moment you can have the Scythes as mercenaries.

[komninos]

DONE

The HTW v.1.0 is out and man am I proud of it

OK
Thanks to everyone that maid this posible, specialy to Welly, Rosacrux and flip.
Also forgot to mension him in the Readme file LoS for his support and knowlege on MTW matters.

This is the last version that is up-loaded as a betta and the reason is that the files were rebuilt. Add additions will come in the form of patches to this one.
So the files
1. the main file (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_main.zip)
2. Campmap folder file 1 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_Campmap1.zip)
3. Campmap folder file 2 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_Campmap2.zip)
4. Textures - map file (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-map.zip)
5. Textures men file - 1 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men1.zip)
6. Textures men file - 2 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men2.zip)
7. Textures men file - 3 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men3.zip)

I don't know if I have mensioned this in the Readme file but go to the Textures\campmap\Hellenic folder and using your favorite program save the MapTex2.jpg and MapTex.jpg as MapTex2.tga and MapTex.tga uther wise it will not function

Please let me know if you have problems installing it or you notice anything missing from it. Also if by chance any one knows how to make an installer ... it will be of great help

Thanks so ...
Ite paides Ellinon
===================

[ShadesPanther]

thank you, thank you, thank you. This is gonna be good downloading it now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ShadesPanther]

hmm

I get this

Incorrect format for troop mix, format is LABEL(int) : column 11, row 40
5)

[Sir Moody]

same prob

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif last minut fixes always leave something out ... I the problem is in the units file ... some real values pased due to function I revised to avoid armies of piuny rebel forces.
OK it is fixed try again the main file (file 1) it should be OK now

[Sir Moody]

ok it gets into MTW now but crashes when u try to select a campaign

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
OK when exactly does it have the problem
Do you see the maps, select the faction and then crushes???

[Sir Moody]

No dont see the maps at all (even tho i resaved em as TGA's)

[komninos]

So the game crushes before the selection of the faction?

[Sir Moody]

yes it crashes when u click on a an age (doesnt matter which)

[komninos]

Strange ... do the following

in the folder campmap\Portraits you sould see a Hellenic copy folders Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim and Pagan in to Hellenic.
Basicaly you sould have this in the campmap\Portraits\Hellenic
Catholic
Muslim
Northtribs
Orthodox
Pagan
======================================================
You sould also have this folder
.\campmap\pieces\Hellenic if not copy and rename the Viking
=======================================================
Sir Moody
it is 11:40 here and I am about to have a hear attack ... I hope all work well now. I will stik here till this is solve http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Antalis::]

Working fine for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I love your mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
In every new version you have more the feeling of beeing an ancient leader of a polis or state.

You´ve forgot to write in your readme that you have to change the jpg into tga files (edit: I didn´t see that you have written that in your post before with the file download. sorry).

Hey komninos: Why don´t you add names to the provinces at the map?


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Hi thank god it is OK with you ... what I fear is that you put it over the previus one thus I have left some thing out ...

Any way I am glad it does work ... now the names on the map ... I think I will do on some later date Hey I might just put them in Greek http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif that will add to the fealing. I would like to go over the names with Rosacrux It is realy difficalt to get them since most maps we can fined are from Roman times and have the Roman names.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (komninos @ Aug. 27 2003,15:57)]now the names on the map ... I think I will do on some later date Hey I might just put them in Greek http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif that will add to the fealing.
Yeah, greek letters would be good, but I hope, that I can read this letters.
You know, you are greek and you have no problems with reading this greek letters, but my knowledge in greek letters is not very well.
I hope, if its possible, that you can make the names so,that all can read it.


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Sir Moody]

ok ok ive got it too show the Factions but when i select one THEN it crashes (arg)

Edit
Both the folders u mentioned are correct

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I 've gone though the files again ... I just couldn't find something missing from there????? I will go though it again today and see what I can do.

Try to follow the procedure ... I think you missed something most probably the problem is with the flags
Check that these exist
Medieval\campmap\pieces\Units\Christian\Shields\Hellenic
Medieval\campmap\pieces\Units\Muslim\Shields\Hellenic

[Lancer6969]

I do believe that an installer would fix these issues. I thought that one was going to be made? I want to play this mod, but I wont install it without an installer, you should maybe think about creating one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks man,

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ShadesPanther]

Lancer is a very fussy fellow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

ps: you spelt Wellington wrong in the readme http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[komninos]

Hi ShadesPanther,

Does it work for you? I will fix the readme file.
Lancer6969 yes I am trying to find someone to build an installer.

[ShadesPanther]

yes it works perfect now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[komninos]

Hi guys,

Any commens sugestions, ... resent triumfs?

I am building this Trojan thing but is going bad ... some nasty crushes have taken the fun out of it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Just 13 unit types and 12 piecess of land and all I get in in battle crushes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[ShadesPanther]

I think you have to have at least 8 factions or it will crash

[Lancer6969]

Quote[/b] ]Lancer is a very fussy fellow

Thanks for the compliment Panther. By the way, the Pope faction probably counts as the 8th faction. You made the same comment about my mod not having 8 factions when only 7 were listed. I figured poeple knew that the Pope was gonna be in it.

Im not too fussy am I?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

No hard feelings, sorry if my typing comes off harsh, I dont mean it to. I just really want to play this mod, but I wont install it without an installer with all the issues at hand. Komninos was nice enough to let me know that someone was working on one, so I will shut up Thanks Komninos for your patience with me.

[komninos]

Actually ...

No one is working at the moment ... I am in search of such a fellow ... Thing is that the mod will install nicely (I hope) If you follow the instructions ...

I know all the needed files are in there. The file structure of the MTW is a bit difficult any way so any time a file or two might be missed.

Lancer6969 try the new version but remember to transform the map jpegs to tgas I think that was missing in the readme. Most of the zips are made to install from the mtw root directory and you only have to copy/rename two directories and thats only for saving space and download time.

I think you should try to install it ... it will take some manual effort and 10min. I have no news from Sir Moody ... I still think he has missed something in there.

Any way what do you have to miss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Duke John]

Hey Komninos,

I have a little teaser for you, I've been working on a Hoplite model, and here's some work-in-progress:
http://chronicles.metw.net/hellinic/hoplite.jpg
The primary faction colour (the purple will be replaced with this colour) will be seen at the horse hairs (historical term?) attached to the helmets and a rim at the bottom of the Hoplites skirt. You showed me a picture of how the Hoplite should look like, seen at the right, so I hope the model is historically accurate.

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif Exelent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
I know that after the LotR would reach v.1.0 you would came with something good Thanks
===========================================================
Edit
-----
The hoplite in the picture is the Athenean hoplite I sent you one with the Spartan and though similar the Spartan are a bit more militaristic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Exelent work again
===========================================================

Now ...
We can't have them sitting and resting ... there is no such pose in MTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif so the left hand of the image should be bent across the chest holding the Shield.
As I have seen you have mixed up the hands it appears that the left is holding the spear. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

One more thing ... I have mixed the faction Color and used the Green and the purple as secondary can you do this small change.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Duke John @ Sep. 06 2003,17:09)]Hey Komninos,

I have a little teaser for you, I've been working on a Hoplite model, and here's some work-in-progress:
http://chronicles.metw.net/hellinic/hoplite.jpg
The primary faction colour (the purple will be replaced with this colour) will be seen at the horse hairs (historical term?) attached to the helmets and a rim at the bottom of the Hoplites skirt. You showed me a picture of how the Hoplite should look like, seen at the right, so I hope the model is historically accurate.

Cheers, Duke John
One word: WOW


Antalis::

[GreasePaintMonkeyBrains]

komninos i love your charriots and i want to put them into my britannia mod. if you let me of course....


regards Gpmb

[Hagbard la Suede]

It looks awesome,but i still cant get it to work.

Can you please post all the changes we have to do manually,that would be nice.
When i select the faction,and click continue,the game freezes.
Somehow i cant access the readme,it didnt come with the files.

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]
We can't have them sitting and resting ... there is no such pose in MTW so the left hand of the image should be bent across the chest holding the Shield.
These are old animations. I have made new ones specifically for the Hoplites. You will see the Hoplite holding his hand across his chest in the BIF. I also made a new fighting animation where he holds his shield in front of him and stabs with the spear over the shield.


Quote[/b] ]As I have seen you have mixed up the hands it appears that the left is holding the spear.
I see that you have much to learn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif MTW mirrors the animations, there are only 4 angles while there should be 8. So at one angle you will see the "right" hand holding the spear and from the opposite angle the hoplite holds the spear in the "left" hand.


Quote[/b] ]One more thing ... I have mixed the faction Color and used the Green and the purple as secondary can you do this small change.
For technical reasons I can't get the green faction color to work right. The background colour is R:0 G:128 B:0 and after rendering and applying a palette some green faction colours are replaced with this background colour. This means that the unit is transparant in some places where it shouldn't be transparent. For this reason I used purple faction colours in most places. This means that you have to keep in mind the secondary colours.
If you want this changed then I suggest you start manually changing the greens and purples http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Hi Duke john,

I see, I have the bif file they are exelent. I have made some shields for them I will make a post with them.

Good work can't wait for the dark age hoplites with bonze armor.

Cheers
==========================================================
Hagbard la Suede,

OK,
You have to build these two folders
\campmap\pieces\Hellenic
\campmap\Portraits\Hellenic
to make them go to the directory \campmap\pieces and "Copy&Paste" the viking folder. then rename it to Hellenic
For the Portraits folder go ther and right-klick->new-folder. then name that one Hellenic. Then copy the Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim and Pagen foldes in to Hellenic. Then do the Unzipping.
Unzip the HTW-v1_Campmap1.zip and HTW-v1_Campmap2.zip in the main directory.
Then unzip HTW-v1_textures-men1.zip, HTW-v1_textures-men2.zip and HTW-v1_textures-men3.zip in the Textures directory.
Finaly in the Textures\Campmap\Hellenic you will fined two .jpg images open them and save them as .TGA

That should do it. I know it is a bit complicated but I can't have an installer...

[Duke John]

Komninos, I forget or didn't know that you wanted Dark Age Hoplites too. I will make them however, but how much do you want them to be different. Any other bronze armour plates? Different helmet?

Also, are you perpaps interested into Hellinic Time Commanders? We can make a little pack of units and battle maps and historical campaigns. Perhaps even play them over the internet with some similar minded modders. I've lended a book from the library with some some maps and break downs of armies. I can make a few summaries of battles and then we can start recreating Greek history. So does that sound like fun? Or are you too busy modding? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Hi Duke John,

Check the images from the links I sent you (In your Tevern)they are a bit different from the rest.
Any way you can have the hoplites as they are but with bronze armor and protection also above the knee.
===========================================================

On the other matter ... I am good at making units but not battle maps
On the other hand ... yes I find modding much more pleasing ... it is a perversion you get after some time ... We might just insert it in the v&v of MTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[hellenes]

Komninos YOUR MOD ROCKS i ve played the original only once since i ve got your mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif my spartan phalanxes subfued the whole greek world
I have some suggestions for the later releases: first i believe that the spartan hoplites should be made vastly superior over the other hoplites also you could restrain them only to sparta (which was what actually happened) make their morale smth like 12 and the others 6 (the fact that the athenean army wouldnt dare to step out the walls to face the spartan enomotia (in peloponnesean war) supports that).I also believe that if you could change the religions to political systems (like cath=democrats, oligarch=orthodox,monarch=muslim,pagan=tribal, heretic=slaves) which were more important than religion in that era. Ive seen the map in this thread and it would be cool to have the map in that style (the satt map's cool but kinda dark http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif ) and the greek names would be the best http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Synexise tin dimiurgia patrioti http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

[komninos]

Hi hellenes,

Thanks for the comments.
Now ... making the Spartans any better it would unbalance the game. Actualy the Spartan society had a mortal flow. Its grouth rate was very low. I tried to depict that by making the Spartan Hoplite built time 3 years.

Spartans were good, very good actualy, but not unbiten. The Messinians, Argians and Atheneans had a number of victories against them. They won the Peloponesian war but it was there doom.

In the new update Spartans will only be built in south Pelopones. They will be part of the Hellenic Leage for the Persian Wars (if I do the leage). Then as was the original mod. They will get a higher moral that before and the time to built might be raised to 4 years.

[flip]

Komninos,

working on a brighter camp map, heres a screen.

http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/map1.jpg

[komninos]

Hi flip,

It's been some time ...
Nice map ... DJ and Welly have rebuilt this map in a brighter form. I was thinking can you all make them in JPG zip them and put them on-line for download? Any one can use the map he likes most http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bludhall]

I treid to get the HTW to work but i get nothing, game still works fine for me MTW 1.1 but i get a pop up error when i start game.
But no sign of new units or factions, game is exactly as before. am i missing something obvious?

[ShadesPanther]

well HTW is for VI sorry

[komninos]

This from the map reqest thread I have started ... It is from a simple map I have made for Thermopilae.

The Greek Camp (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-01.jpg)
The passage (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-02.jpg)
Hercules Path (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-03.jpg)
The attack (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-04.jpg) -- Strang I put 16 units to the persians ... notice the small red dot in the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The path is known (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-05.jpg) Enemies in the rear
Even more are comming (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/Therm-06.jpg) it is our doom ... thank god I could not give them renforcements http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hope you like them ... they are ment to give you something till the Persian wars update comes out.
===========================================================
Sorry Bludhall, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
I think I mensioned it somewhere that this was only for VI ... unfortunatly these two are totaly incompatible. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Scipio]

nice pics looks great

[Scipio]

whens 2.0 comin out and what updates?

[Scipio]

Hey flip i stumbled over this "Jacks Paint Shop Album"
and I found that it had a built in brightner for the camp map but its for when it is in jpg format. But still would that not solve youre dark camp map prob? Correct me if I'm wrong. You can find the paint shop thing Here (http://download.com.com/3150-2192-0.html?tag=dir)

[Scipio]

Flip do you have an email adress I can get you at? I have set the camp maps to tga's and there a lot brighter.

[Scipio]

never mind my mindless post Im totally out of space on my comp and am gonna have to recover it. Sorry for the confusion "vive la idiot"

[komninos]

Hi all,

The simplest way to reform the map (dark sea areas) is to use the Paint Shop Pro. Select the sea areas (very carefully) with a 30 at the selection tool. The using the colour tools you can brighten the map using the gamma, Contrast, and brightness tools. Then you need to change the close to land parts of the sea that are very bark you can select them and use several lighting effects on them till you get the result you need.

Other tricks can include using the Sepia tool to bring the map to a sepia colour (some old stile) then increase the brightness. Cut the sea regions and superimpose it to some old stile sea (ie form MTW). You can also try the application of some effects to small extent like pencil, or using the cut tool to make look like worn out at the edges ...

Its all up to you my friends … I just provide the row material … Computer graphics is not my forte though I have some understanding for them (old school computer freak http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ). But I prefer building the next generation units and delivering the first update with Persian Wars, Peloponnesian War and Rise of Macedon.

BTW … just finished the Macedonian Phalangites, the guys with the Sarizas (6m Pikes) using the Hoplite bodies of Duke John … they do look fearful (And they were spend 6 hours debugging why the MTW was crushing at single combat&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. With them the Athenian Yficratian hoplites are ready too. DJ … when can we have the bodies for them, and the Bronze plate armoured?? (just a timing question not need to kill your self over them).

Cheers Komninos

[Marshal Murat]

Hey is there another place to download the Greece total war info in one package? I can't get the 3ddownloads to work.

[komninos]

Hi Marshal Murat,
Well it works ... but you have to be a true believer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I guess you are not the only one ... I will try to find something for a simple FTP Server somewhere out there ... but no promises

[Sir Moody]

well i took another stab at getting working (got distracted by NTW) and ive found out what was going on - when i saved the jpg's as TGA's i used PSP and thus it bugered up - yesterday i did it with APS and works fine now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif great mod

[Antalis::]

A mappak for this mod is aviable: It contains 5 maps:


1. THERMOPYLAE (better version): (temperate, southeuropean)

2. MARATHON (v2) (arid, southeuropean)

3. OLYMPOS: (arid, southeuropean)

4. A castle map: (arid, southeuropean)

5. THESSALIA: (arid, southeuropean)



Here is a pic of them:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/386014/5mapsforancienttimes.jpg



You can find this mappak here (under the name: "Thermopylae, Marathon, Olympos, Thessalia and a Castle map"):

http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/


edit: Sorry I had to remove the pics, which I had posted here before, because I´m running out of bandwidth, so I added a pic where all maps are showen in one pic:

[ShadesPanther]

I meant to say ages ago that you need to add Thebian band to the names file.

anyway
hows version 2 coming. Could we maybe have some piccies to start us drooling http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Lancer6969]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Will there be an installer? lmao..sorry had too. I annoyed you soo much with that before, had to say it.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Those pics are awesome, I bet that is fun, making realistic battles, keep it up.

Lancer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ShadesPanther]

It is really easy to install. I installed it again in about 5 minutes. As long as you follow te simple instructions

[komninos]

Hi,

I would not like to sound aggressive here ... but all I said was "I will try to find someone to do it" ... no promises here. My last programming attempt was several (~10) years ago. Though quite good in programming I never went that way ... though I am an IT professional.

I tried hard to write up a step-by-step Installation guide. One thing I did not mansion is "USE ACDSEE to transform the JPGs to TGAs" and not "any software" as I say

Further more this is not the only project I am in ... this is my child and love it and it takes a big part of the little but precious free time. I also have a wife that is really pissed when I spend more time on my PC than with here (I don't wont to wake up as a unic one day). As many people have said before me ... modding is on a volunteer basis we are not paid professionals so no SLAs or QAs here.

With that said ... no there is not going to be an Installer ... form me that is ... if anyone knows hoe to built one I would be more than willing to help.

[ShadesPanther]

Quote[/b] ](I don't wont to wake up as a unic one day).

Solution: make sure all sharp objects are hidden away for the night http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Antalis::]

Thermopylae map is now fixed (alpinist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif problem): Version 3 is in the uploadsection (ignore V2).

V3 is very different to V1, so choose which you like more (except the aplinist problem v1 works absolutly okay).

[Sir Moody]

out of interest are u still having problems getting bodies to stay (during battles)??? (as ive found a way to fix that has the side effect of not been able to lay MTW normal (not much of a problem with this mod))

[flip]

Moody,

yes tell us how to make it, pls.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Sir Moody, that info would be greatly appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Sir Moody]

well as for y it happens dont ask me (tho it seems likely its due to some bad programming CA side) but the dead page cords only accepts a set number of units once u go over that they just dont stay so (for the ancient mod for instance) u remove all the units that arnt used (ie all the mtw units) the bodys will stay (tried and tested my hoplite battles leave hordes of corpses all packed into the same spot) unfortunatly if u use all the units allready in MTW (ie ure mod BKB (sorry its a good mod)) u cant remove them and the new units will have no corpses....

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Thats a bit of a shame. Thanks Sir Moody, back to the drawing board http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[komninos]

hmm ... Interesting ...
Any way I think you should install this mod on its own folder. With the units created by Duck John we need the space so I will discard all the MTW units any way. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Sir Moody]

ill send u my deadpagecords.txt it will give u a good basis to start from (unfortunatly i suffer from the lazy vice and i havent dont the cords for all ure units just the greek and some of the tribes)

[Sir Moody]

ok sent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

just another quick point with the current system (u may have change dit i dont know) Spartan Hoplite V Hoplite (of the same age with the same honour and weapon/armour bonus's) will loose 4 out of 5 times attacking which doesnt seem right but with an increase of 1 to melee bonus 1 on 1 will win 3 out of 5 times (less if on hills but im thinking of flat terrain) which seems more reasonable - on defence they seem to win 4 out of 5

[Marshal Murat]

Hey were can you download this Mod? and under what name?

[Antalis::]

Here is a pic of my new map: SPARTA_LAKONIA:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/386014/Sparta_Lakonia.jpg


It will be part of the new ancient map-pack, which contains 9 new maps (maybe more):

SPARTA_LAKONIA
CHAIRONEIA
GRANIKOS
ISSOS
GAUGAMELA
CRETE
KAPPADOKIA
MAGNESIA (landscape)
EPIRUS
Antalis::

[Marshal Murat]

Hello? where may I download this, because I can't seem to find it among the download section?

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Okt. 04 2003,14:47)]Hello? where may I download this, because I can't seem to find it among the download section?
Look at site 6 of this thread, in the middle: Komninos had posted directlinks for downloading the mod.



This has komninos wrote:
"1. the main file (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_main.zip)
2. Campmap folder file 1 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_Campmap1.zip)
3. Campmap folder file 2 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_Campmap2.zip)
4. Textures - map file (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-map.zip)
5. Textures men file - 1 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men1.zip)
6. Textures men file - 2 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men2.zip)
7. Textures men file - 3 (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWbeta/TEST_HTW-v1_textures-men3.zip)

I don't know if I have mensioned this in the Readme file but go to the Textures\campmap\Hellenic folder and using your favorite program save the MapTex2.jpg and MapTex.jpg as MapTex2.tga and MapTex.tga uther wise it will not function"

[Sir Moody]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know if I have mensioned this in the Readme file but go to the Textures\campmap\Hellenic folder and using your favorite program save the MapTex2.jpg and MapTex.jpg as MapTex2.tga and MapTex.tga uther wise it will not function"

and dont be a fool like me and use PSP to do it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[flip]

http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Portraits/Portraits.jpg
An old dream, for those who like imersion in Ancient mods.
This is a pack of 60 portraits that can be used in mods like Hellenic TW from komninos. You can test it directly decompressing the zip files in...campmap/Portraits/Hellenic/Catholic/General. With a batch rename program , and especialy for moders,its easy to change the names and remake the set for more folders as I did.These are sculpture portraits of unnamed greek generals, and a few famous hellenic fellows that I mixed up. Hope you enjoy it. Now, I can see beautiful faces bellow komnino's commander's names. Here's the links from the beta section. 3 parts, sorry:
Portraits1 (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Z_Beta_Files/MTWbeta/Okt_03/Portraits1.zip)
Portraits2 (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Z_Beta_Files/MTWbeta/Okt_03/Portraits2.zip)
Portraits3 (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Z_Beta_Files/MTWbeta/Okt_03/Portraits_3.zip)

Corrected Links for 3D downloads,5 Oct 2003

flip
MTW ancient units (http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/)

[flip]

The result
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/general1.jpg
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/general2.jpg
a King (a gold filter)
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/general3.jpg

and now, another project, new pieces for komninos Campaigns and Ancient Mods, with Duke John's figures, easy and imersive.
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/pieces1.jpg
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/Units/pieces2.jpg

[Marshal Murat]

I can't get it to work The same thing happened like Moodys, I cdon't a screne or nothin. I followed you steps, created the new files, saved the Maptex and Maptex2 under TGA and all, but it still won't work

[komninos]

Hi all,

It is a bit creasy at work these days so couldn't replay to you all.

Marshal Murat,
Apparently there is an incompatibility with the TGA format used. Use ACDSee to transform the JPGs to TGAs. PSP can work with them but use ACDSee for the transformation.

flip,
Excellent work Have not downloaded them still ... I have not opened my PC this week and most probably this will be the thing next week too. Can you find a ship image to close the pack?

[Marshal Murat]

Well I got the maps and faction select areas, but when I try and play while loading it goes "Bleep" and doesn't finish loading. I've got Units faction flags, I've played custom battles, I got an error message "initmapmain"
unknown error 000000(0)
This means that I have a problem initializing the main map, so how do I do this?

[Marshal Murat]

So any Ideas or hypothesis on how to fix my dilema

[komninos]

Some questions ...
1. Custom battles work OK?
2. Only the MapTex.JPG should be transformed to TGAs

Have not seen this behaviour though ... usually is CTD and you are still looking at the screen like an idiot.
Try to cross check your steps when unzipping the files.

Sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Marshal Murat]

Yes the Custom Battles work ok
With the TGA do I just do Maptex or Maptex and Maptex2.
As I said before, it says InitMainMap failed to initialize, and I think somethings wrong with the file. I'll uninstall and reinstall and try again.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Okt. 05 2003,14:54)]Yes the Custom Battles work ok


With the TGA do I just do Maptex or Maptex and Maptex2.
As I said before, it says InitMainMap failed to initialize, and I think somethings wrong with the file. I'll uninstall and reinstall and try again.

You need both: MapTex.tga and MapTex2.tga.


I guess you´ve saved the image "MapTex.jpg" as MapTex.tga and MapTex2.tga: But the problem is, that MapTex and MapTex2 have different resolutions, so you have to open them seperatly and save them one by one.
You can´t open one of the maptexes and save it as MapTex and MapTex2.

[Marshal Murat]

Ok, could you post the order to install everything, I got the clean version, could you post the order in which you download and anything else so I don't mess up.

[Antalis::]

OK, hope that I get it right: Correct me, if I´ve said something wrong:


Open campmap\pieces\: There you find a "Vikings" folder.
Change the name to "Hellenic".

Do the same in:
campmap\Portraits\Vikings ->Hellenic.


Then: Unzip the HTW-v1_main.zip into your main directory of MTW (rename MTW to whatever you want).
Do the same with: HTW-v1_Campmap1.zip
and HTW-v1_Campmap2.zip


Now, unzip HTW-v1_textures-map.zip into your "Textures" folder.


Now you have to unzip HTW-v1_textures-men1.zip,
HTW-v1_textures-men2.zip
HTW-v1_textures-men3.zip
into your Textures/men folder.


Now go to the Textures/campmap/Hellenic folder and open "MapTex.jpg": Save it as TGA into the same folder.

Then open "MapTex2.jpg" and save it as TGA.


And don´t forget to install flips portraits http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .


It should work now, if I didn´t said something wrong, but I think it´s right.

[Marshal Murat]

Its working good, I got though everything, sweat dripping down my face, the map won't start, it just crashes my desktop, tried two times, it crashes, but I think i did something right or close

[flip]

Ok, guys

New link for my site, alternative to 3D Downloads.
Get there the Portraits pack.
MTW ancient units (http://filipeabranches.250free.com/)
http://filipeabranches.250free.com//MTW/Portraits/Portraits.jpg

[Marshal Murat]

Hey where do you place the Custom files 1 2 3 4 5 and such?

[Sir Moody]

when u say the map wont start wil lit let u select a faction then brings the loading bar up and crashes?

if so the TGA format is wrong as this was my problem - either use Adobe Photoshop like me or ACD like komninos sudjusts

[Marshal Murat]

Thats right, i select a faction and when its the loading bar, it crashes. I don't have Adobe or ACDC??? I however have the Prinshop deluxe by Broderbund. I can't convert the JPEG files to TGA unless I use the Wordpad and note pad, any way komninos that you could send me converted Maptex files? Send it to my personal box here
Or maybe Sir Moody or others?

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Okt. 05 2003,21:25)]Thats right, i select a faction and when its the loading bar, it crashes. I don't have Adobe or ACDC??? I however have the Prinshop deluxe by Broderbund. I can't convert the JPEG files to TGA unless I use the Wordpad and note pad, any way komninos that you could send me converted Maptex files? Send it to my personal box here
Or maybe Sir Moody or others?
You have to covert them with a viewer- or grafik programm.

Use Irfan View:


You find it here:

http://www.tucows.com/preview/194967.html

[komninos]

Hi ACDSee is a free viewer (at least last time I checked) that you cab download from any tucows mirror.

[Marshal Murat]

So its ACD and the photo imaging, or the painting pallete

[Antalis::]

update:


This is the full list of the maps I´ve done so far:

btw: I have asigned battles to landscapes, so ISSOS is in KILIKIA, so this battlefieldmap represents KILIKIA and ISSOS in special and so on.


The battles of Alexander the Great:

ISSOS_KILIKIA
GRANIKOS_TROAS
GAUGAMELA_ASSYRIA



Battle of his father Phillip II:

CHAIRONEA_BOEOTIA


Other landscapes:

SPARTA_LAKONIA
MAGNESIA
ACHAIA
CRETE_PHAISTOS
RHODES
SILICY
KAPPADOKIA
EPIRUS
THESSALIA
MAKEDONIA_OLYMP
PHOKIS
RHODOPE
KARIA
MESSENIA
ARKADIA
AETOLIA
LYDIA
KEPHALLENIA
CHALKIDIKE
KORKYRA (Korfu)
LESBOS
BYZANTION
LYKIA
ILLYRIA
THASOS (North A. I.)
PHRYGIA
ELIS
EUBOEA
ZAKYNTHOS
SOUTH MOESIA
LYNCESTIS
DELOS (North Cycl.)
MOESIA
SKYROS_SPORADES
DALMATIA
SAMOS (Doris)
PAMPHYLIA
EPHESUS
NAISSUS
MILET
HALIKARNASSOS
NAXOS (South Cycl.)
PHILIPPOPOLIS
CRETE_KYDONIA
PISIDIA
ESO MOESIA
SMYRNA
GORDION
CYZICUS
DACIA
NICAEA
BITHYNIA
MELITINE
PAPHLAGONIA
SERDICA
AVDERA
MYGDONIA
GERMA
PANNONIA
CYNURIA
ELIMEA
ARGOLIS
ACHAIA-PHTHIOTIS
SCUPI
EDONES
MYSIA
AEGOSPOTAMOS
PERGAMON




The Persianwars:

MARATHON_ATTIKA
THERMOPYLAE v1 + v3
PLATAEAE


One castle map:

CASTLE 1 (updated)



edit: I´ll update this list, when I´ve made a new map.



Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[hellenes]

Komnine when is the mod goin to be released? I cant wait http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
...well i can, and i have some suggestions to make if its possible u could change the religions symbols names and descriptions to political systems like olygarhy=orthodox,catholic=democratic,muslim=monarchic, pagan=tribal,heretic=slaves(and u could make the land developments to increase the percentage of slaves in the province (and maby the trade posts too im not shure) thus makin the control of a high income province hard) the religius buildins could worc as surgeon increasing health
(asclipoiia) but the religius amadment would probably change the original game too...

[Marshal Murat]

This mod has already come out, and Komninos, would it be easier to put the Map Tex onto TGA and send it to me on my box? I don't really want to download a program to use once.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Okt. 06 2003,15:42)]This mod has already come out, and Komninos, would it be easier to put the Map Tex onto TGA and send it to me on my box? I don't really want to download a program to use once.
There is no problem:

Use "Irfan view" (look the link above).
It´s absolutly free and a perfect picture viewer and also usable for movie-clips.

[komninos]

Sorry Marshal Murat,

I would have put it in the zip file if that was posible the thing is ~32MB in TGA for the maptext2 and ~10MB for maptext Even if I could sent it to you ... your provider would cat it out Just get a program to do it. I know ACDSee does the job most probably Irfan view down load them, open the file and then save as ... TGA. There is no other way ... sorry.

hellenes, I will try to get the units down and ready when this update is ready then I will try the other things like the ones you sugested. ... on the other hand ... you can you help with them?

[flip]

Who asked for triremes?
Almost finished. The unit pieces are ready. I'll pack them with boats this week. Small pack, beleave me (167Kb).
http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Units/ships1.jpg
http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Units/ships2.jpg

[hellenes]

flip if u could send me with email that bright map in jpg (i have photo shop so i can make it tga) i would be eternally grateful... arxidamos2003@yahoo.gr

komnine i will try to zip the political system symbols and upload them hope that helps...
also i cant find any pic of ancient greek acropolis (reconstructed) apart that from athens after the persian wars any links??????????????????

[Marshal Murat]

Ok got the ACDSee thing and changed the files to TGA, is there anything special, like a difference between them that I need something special to do? Also, do I keep the JPEG files or delete them.

[Marshal Murat]

Sorry for all the haslling, I just looked at all the files, and the Maptex and Maptex2 were outside the Hellenic folder so I move them in and Ziipedeee do da, I have the campaign running. Sorry for the stupid questions and taking up your time to answer.

[flip]

Ok, the Units Pieces are ready for all.

Just drop it the content of zip file inside ...campmap/pieces/Hellenic
...campmap/pieces/Troy , back up the old files
Pieces Units/Ships (http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Pieces/Pieces.zip)
http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Units/king.jpg
http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Units/ship.jpg

Hope you like

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Okt. 06 2003,20:52)]Sorry for all the haslling, I just looked at all the files, and the Maptex and Maptex2 were outside the Hellenic folder so I move them in and Ziipedeee do da, I have the campaign running. Sorry for the stupid questions and taking up your time to answer.

No problem, the important thing is, that you could play this wonderful mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


@flip: Very good work, but it seems that the zip-file is defect.
I can´t open it.

One question: It would be absolutly amazing if you also could make new buildings for the campaignmap (like in NTW) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

flip, could you also post a link to the brighter campaignmap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif, would be fine.

[flip]

Pieces.zip file corrected.

I'll post my map later and may think on the buildings. Ouuufff

Thanks Antalis

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (flip @ Okt. 07 2003,06:12)]Pieces.zip file corrected.

I'll post my map later and may think on the buildings. Ouuufff

Thanks Antalis
Yeah think about it, you are a fantastic grafik artist.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[flip]

Ok, Maps for HTW here
HTW Maps (http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Maps/Maps.zip)
http://filipeabranches.250free.com/MTW/Units/map1.jpg

[Antalis::]

@flip:

thx for the maps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[komninos]

Hi all, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I am amazed and I feel really grateful for all the work you have put in this mod ... thank you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Flip,
Can you pass that landmass a Sepia colour to make it look like and old map and a possibility to worn edges would put some atmosphere. I live it up to you. Excellent work

Marshal Murat,
I hope you like the mod ... apparently you have suffered to install it ... I hope it repays your affords ... on the other hand it would be good to download all the stuff flip, and Antalis:: have made.

The next update will have the new units from DJ and some balancing of factors, ... Peoneans and Persians. There is a lot of work to be done still. Question ... Would you like a relish of the existing mod with the new unit graphics, the Peoneans and the new Unit values?

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (komninos @ Okt. 08 2003,06:14)]... on the other hand it would be good to download all the stuff flip, and Antalis:: have made.
The maps need some testing before releasing and I´ll make some more maps.
I thought that I release all the maps in one map-pack.

You can expect the maps in about a week or two.

[flip]

Komninos, I'll work the map, but with Photoshop anybody may tune it to is own taste.
I've been testing DJ units in HTW, changing a lot some files and lines. Its great. There is a problem, but probaly its mine error, with the LT_slingers (light sfendoniste ). Can you chek? Also, dont forget the error in Tebian Band name.

I'm puting my hands in Light Wave 7.0, but its hard.
Will need a generic horseman bif to include. It may be used in other units. are you there DJ?

[Duke John]

Yep, I am here. Hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

So Flip, you have reached deep down in your purse and finally bought Lightwave. Great program isn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

If you can tell me convincingly that you're willing to put effort into making unit graphics then I will help you into making the first steps. I will then send you files for animation and the only thing you need to do is make the models and textures, the rest is provided by my files. If only small changes are needed you can whip out a new unit every 2 days. Cavalry is also extremely easy, you only need to build an infantry model and my files take care of the rest.

In return, I would appreciate it if you would help me write a guide where it is written how people can make use of my files to make new models. I probably know too much and might go into too many details that obscure the bigger picture.

Thanks, Flip, if you can pull this off, then Komninos no longer needs to harass on finally finishing off the set of BIFs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ... does this mean we are going to have two unit designers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif excellent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Well you both know the list and it is not a small one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif now get to work we need those units ASAP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif (the boss has awaken in me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )

Good news ... hope to have your input soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

======================================================
What can happen when you over do it with emoticons ... look above (authors comment)
======================================================
flip ... I get no problems with the units ... the Thebian band naming has been fixed.

[flip]

DJ, Komninos

I'm green in 3D programs, I need time to get in the stuff.
But I think that with DJ experience we can reach sommewere.
DJ, are those inicial,templates, files, heavy? Can you send me something to work on? Thanks.

[Antalis::]

@komninos:


Have you found out how to implementate a specific battlefield-map to a specific region?
It would be strange, if it would be random, so that SPARTA_LAKONIA is randomly in ATTIKA and so on.

[flip]

i'd like to know also.

it would be fantastic to force those maps inside the campaign.

komninos

Quote[/b] ]Flip,
Can you pass that landmass a Sepia colour to make it look like and old map and a possibility to worn edges would put some atmosphere. I live it up to you. Excellent work

Working on that