Wars of the Roses Expansion

[Duke John]

[http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif]

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/wotr_banner.gif

Wars of the Roses BETA version 0.1 released

The mod isn't finished yet and you will probably notice some glitches, but my progress is halting and I hope that feedback from the fans of this period will inspire me. So read on and play some games

Installation
Follow the steps below to install WotR beta 0.1:
Download the WotR beta v0.1 from this location (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/download.htm)
Copy the content of the ZIP into your M:TW installation folder.
The mod only works if you have the following:- Medieval: Total War + Viking Invasion expansion installed
English version
No other mods installed.
Gameplay
Battles during the Wars of the Roses were mostly between large bodies of infantry. Cavalry played a very limited part as the longbow and the various staff weapons made mounted units ineffective.

Battles mostly began with a missile war. Since both sides had the ability to field longbows it they cancelled each other out. At a certain time the infantry would no longer stand the barrage of missiles and then the lines would move forward.

There are 4 different troop types: Men-at-Arms (very effective but few in numbers), Retinue troops (flexible and reasonably strong), Shire troops (many in numbers but not as trained as the Retinue troops) and Mercenaries (various troop types that were hired from the mainland).

Playtesting
Unitcosts and stats are not 100% balanced yet. When you decide to help me balance the stats then always play with no upgrades, be it valour, weapons or armour. The quickest way to destroy balance is by upgrading your units.

What holds the future?
The current version needs the following to be complete:
- Names for the commanders
- Flags and shields for various factions
- Icons for several units

And I will also add the following:
- 3 more BIFs, that means 3 more units. At the moment I am thinking of Mounted Men-at-Arms, Handgunners and Culverins.
- More factions so that we are able to recreate all historical battles with the right commanders.
- Maps of the famous battle sites
- Historical Battles/Campaigns

To complete the experience I am also working on a Wars of the Roses website that gives more background to the commanders, battles and units. That site will probably also feature multi-player campaigns consisting of linked battles.

Screenshots

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_3_02.jpg

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_3_03.jpg

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_2_03.jpg

Installing the Wars of the Roses mod together with other mods
This works with most other mods as long, there are some exceptions of which the easiest to recognize is that the other mod shouldn't have CUSTOM BIF folders in Textures\Men

Step 1: Temporary installation
Install the Wars of the Roses mod into a temporary directory.

Step 2: Combining modfiles
Now open the following file in both the WotR and MTW installation directories/folders:Textures/Men/DEADPAGE COORDS.TXT[/list]In the WotR version copy all WOTRUnitName entries together with the 4 coordinates lines below each entry and paste it into the MTW version. Save the MTW file.

Now open the following files in both the Wars of the Roses and MTW installtion directories/folders:Loc\Eng\Names.TXT
Loc\Eng\Descriptions.TXT[/list]In the WotR versions copy everything that stands between the *** WotR comments *** and paste it into the corresponding MTW versions. Save the MTW files.

Step 3: Installing the WotR mod
Now delete all the mentioned files in the temporary WOTR folder, NOT the MTW installion.
Then copy the content of the WotR folder into the MTW folder.

Step 4: Play the game
Everything should work now. If it doesn't work then there is a change that the other mod is completely incompatible with other mods. Note that you shouldn't try this with the HTW, NTW and METW mods.


Last words
I would appreciate any feedback on this mod, be it balance suggestions, a list of names or maps, it will probably mean that this mod only gets better

Have fun,
Duke John

[/http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif]

-----------------edit by drone------------------------------
Wars of the Roses v0.1 is part of this archive file (http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/68512/mtw_tools_resources-zip)
-----------------------------------------------------------

[Puzz3D]

Duke John.

Sounds interesting, and I'll be glad to help in online testing to get the unit balance you want. Also, almost everyone in my clan is interested in playing mods.

I think CBR has solved the upgrade and morale issues in his mod, and you could use the same techniques in yours. Having units move a little faster will reduce fatigue which should help with gameplay.

[CBR]

The graphics look impressive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Although Im currently busy with my own mod I can help if its needed.

If units have same cost then you have to ensure that the unit is actually worth the cost. At least that will mean that all units have a role and will be used although the total number of units might be a bit limited...dont know.

Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

In my older MPwars mod I also had a limited choice of units but made them in several sizes (spears of 80/100/120 men for example) That gave the player the opportunity to make many different armies. MPwars was also a game of no/few upgrades and IMO it worked fine. That is one way of doing it.

STW also didnt have many units but had no hardcoded 4 unit max as MTW and upgrades were cheaper (although horrible unbalanced upgrade cost)

Upgrading is costly so if units have same cost you will most likely see all units with same amount of upgrades. Otherwise you will see the same effect as MTW/STW where the cheapest units gets the most upgrades to make all units af nearly same cost.

If you say play at 10k and all unit cost were 500 then you would only have 2k for upgrades and cant give it to all. That should make some variation I guess.

But there might be other things you can do...thats just me making a quick post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif


And another thing. You might as well expect the worst. The community is very conservative and lazy. Make a mod for the sake of your own interest. Never count on it being played much. If it actually will be played then thats just a bonus. Sad but true.

In the near future I plan a tournament for my mod hoping that might increase the interest. But its not like Im counting on a landslide heh.

Recreating historical battles might get some interest in using the mod too..


CBR

[Duke John]

Puzz3D
Thanks for the offer For the coming days I will be mainly working on the units so that I can show that this mod earnest. If the rest of your clan is willing to help too it will probably go quickly since a clan is better at setting up battles (or so I hope). Again many thanks

CBR


Quote[/b] ]Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that
I had hoped that that point came across, but apparently it didn't. I am also a strong believer that upgrades should be left out as much as possible.

It always remains possible, but hopefully we can make the unitcosts so high that upgrades are not favourable compared to naked troops. I don't know how the unitcosts are calculated so I must admit that I am not sure about this.


Quote[/b] ]You might as well expect the worst. The community is very conservative and lazy. Make a mod for the sake of your own interest. Never count on it being played much. If it actually will be played then thats just a bonus. Sad but true.
I know... but I simply love the Wars of the Roses period. If this mod fails to be popular then I would have at least a game that is completly customized at my hearts content.
Making the models is the bit that I love to do, I can look for hours at images drawn Graham Turner in the Osprey books, spotting little details and modelling them.

If I can convince just a few people with whom I can play just a few games I am already a happy man.

But I also that my/new unitgraphics sell. From my experience with H:TW and ME:TW I know that loads of players appreciate the detail and hopefully that will be enough to convince downloading them.
To help "selling" the mod I might make trailers to let players see how it looks ingame. At ME:TW, Aldaeron made a very simple trailer and it somehow got on gamespy, in the meantime it has been downloaded over 1000 times. ME:TW also got a review in a French magazine. A good "marketing" may help, if it will work is something for the future.

I think your mod, while balancing the game, really misses something fresh and exciting to convince the community. In my eyes it's a bit dry, the only change are some numbers. I am convinced that your mod helps balancing the game, veteran and clan members are/will also be convinced. The regular player however only sees a txt file that promises better games, but they can see nothing. People are visually oriented, just think of all the games who good graphics but have the worst gameplay. Do not see this as negative critism.


Quote[/b] ]Recreating historical battles might get some interest in using the mod too..
Historical battles will certainly be included at some point. The Osprey books have some great 3D maps depicting troop movements and I can't wait to converting them to M:TW

[CBR]

Oh yes my mod has the problem of nothing obviously new about it. Graphics will definitely help in selling a mod.

I just dont have the patience working on graphics (although I wish I had) and most importantly I wanted the mod to be as easy as possible to install and uninstall. I have also encountered weird problems for people even when a mod is made as simple as possible to install. So right now the mod is working on the KISS principle heh

I have been looking at the units that modders have made so far and Im very tempted at using some. But then there is also the STW mod. My mod still works with that installed...a few changes and then it cant. Maybe STW mod wont be used much online so I should care less about that..but as you see there is always lots of things to worry about. Between a rock and a hard place heh

Edit:BTW Im a Mizu too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

CBR

[CBR]

Oh yes about upgrades and unitcost:

Right now a valor upgrade cost only a tiny bit more than what a good (same stat increase as a valor upgrade) unit would cost compared to a weak unit. So right now its easy to pump up the weaker units. I have changed the unitcost formula to make most upgrading a lot less worth it. Still making tweaks to it as its not perfect..but thats another story.

You can download the excel sheets that CA used to calculate the costs. link (http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/MTW/Stats/MTW_Prod_Files.zip)

If you dont want to mess with that I can quickly calculate the unitcosts.


CBR

[Duke John]

CBR

Quote[/b] ]I have also encountered weird problems for people even when a mod is made as simple as possible to install.
Yes, making the installation foolproof is probably the hardest thing to do. Even when you think it can't be clearer people still come questions, I have seen that enough with the ME:TW beta: "ME:TW beta is only for the English version of MTW1.1 and only for custom battles."
And they come up with: "hello i have problems with campaign" or "your mod give an error with VI" or after alot of pulling out some background they give the answer that they installed over a translated installation. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

However someone put a link a while ago about a freeware installer, and I am planning to use that. Still need to look into the details though.


Quote[/b] ]So right now the mod is working on the KISS principle
Que?


Quote[/b] ]If you dont want to mess with that I can quickly calculate the unitcosts.
I have the excel sheets sitting on my HD for quite a while. I never have the time to really dive into it, so if you want to help me with it, then it will very appreciated.

Cheers, Duke John

[TosaInu]

Hello Duke John,

Great unit graphics.
There are 10 new units, if I counted correctly and the culverin is skipped and each unit uses a new BIF. That means that the 10 custom BIF folders can be used -> this is an add-on mod and not a new install. More easy: the convenience will help to get it adopted.

http://www.clickteam.com/English/index.php it's possible to use registry parameters.
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....ickteam (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=3152;hl=clickteam)
This means that the install will be very easy too (provided it's English of course). There will be a few necessary loc files (German, Italian, French ..), you could simply ask gamers to submit their version and append the international descriptions to it. Perhaps some people will even translate text (though I guess there won't be much to translate). Pack them into another installer and you have a language pack for other versions.

[CBR]

KISS: Keep it Simple, Stupid.


Quote[/b] ]I have the excel sheets sitting on my HD for quite a while. I never have the time to really dive into it, so if you want to help me with it, then it will very appreciated.

Sure no problem. Just need some stats now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



CBR

[Duke John]

It seems that the whole Mizu clan is here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Tosa
Actually I will merge the artillery crew and the handgunners together into one bif. Since they share the charge, fight and die animation I would only need to add 2 more animations for the crew; standing and walking (running will use the charging animation since the crew will be standing still for 99% of the battle).


Quote[/b] ]http://www.clickteam.com/English/index.php it's possible to use registry parameters.
That is the program I was talking about, thanks for pointing out that it actually works.

CBR
Great I will make a beta then that does not contain any new unitgraphics but it will give you the opportunity to work with all the units.

Cheers, Duke John

[TosaInu]

That's great Duke John, it can be made to utilise the 10 custom BIF folders then. This allows creation of an add-on mod, or am I overlooking something?

[Duke John]

No, you are correct. This mod can be regarded as a add-on. The first release will be without a campaign map though. It will feature 11 new units (with unitgraphics exclusively made for this mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ), historical campaigns and battles and it will be fully compatible with a standard MTW:VI installation.

Cheers, Duke John

[Puzz3D]

We know how to make corpses visible for new units, but new graphics would be required in DEAD256.tga to have them match the unit graphics and death animation. I'm not sure that anyone has tried to do that.

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure that anyone has tried to do that.
Wellington has made a tool specifically for adding dead bodies. I have yet to try it, but he said it worked, so...

CBR
I am curious about your view on upgrading units:

Quote[/b] ]Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that
I agree with this, since we intent to give units a certain role on the battlefield and it would a waste of hard work if that role would become obselete because another upgraded unit is cheaper and better.
But that does mean that units should be viable at valour 0 or 1. What is your opinion of the starting morale? Morale 6 for standard infantry, 8/10 for MAA and cav, 2/4 for missile?

I think morale 6 is regarded as the minimum for combat units. A single valour upgrade will make standard infantry very reliable (especially because of their large size). 3 upgrades should be so horrendeously expensive that is not worth the florins.

Cheers, Duke John

[CBR]

Morale is of course a matter of taste: how much attritional v maneuver warfare do you want.

And also depends on how the attack value is compared to the defense value. An example is spears as they can fight for a long time even with lower morale because of their high defense value...as long as they dont fight units that have very high combat power compared to the spears. Spear morale does feel low when they face swords that has on valor more.

In the Community mod I have given all units +2 morale and a morale range of 2-10 works fine there. So if you give units the morale 6-10 you mentioned I dont think they need more. I would start with 4 for lower quality 100 men units and 8 or 10 for best units..your billmen have rankbonus so it gives them more defense, but it depends on the base combat stats you give them.

If a missile unit is not meant for any fighting it doesnt need that high morale. But if you want to make sure they only run after taking heavy losses and/or being attacked then 2-4 should do the trick.


CBR

[Duke John]

Ok, I have finished making a beta version of the Wars of the Roses expansion. The campaign will crash, but all the units are in for custom and mp battles. I have added temporary unitgraphics that I made some months ago. They will all be replaced with new and better versions so don't worry about them.

I have made some stats, but they are in no sense definitive. I am not that good at making them up, but they should provide a good clue on how the units should compare to each other. I did some tests though and the units did seem to work reasonably. Pikes can hold and win in the beginning but lose in the end, regular longbows and handguns were decimated and fled quickly once charged by the prickers. Even on valour 0 they were all dependable on their own task.

Puzz3D and CBR
Do you have some sparetime to playtest and adjust the stats? If you do, then I will upload the beta and give you the url via PM (because of limited bandwith I don't want to make it public). I am specifically asking you since you're the only ones who responded here and because I feel that you both have enough knowledge and experience to make it balanced.

Cheers, Duke John

[CBR]

Yeah sure just send the url. Maybe we can run some battles later today. What florin level are you aiming at?


CBR

[Duke John]

I am thinking of 10k for valour 0.

I don't have time today to play games, so have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

URL coming via PM,
Duke John

Edit: it's 10MB btw, so it may take a while.

[Puzz3D]

I can try it with CBR tonight. I'll be online after 21:00 gmt.

[andy119]

Looks great i want an english civil war mod aswell thatd be gr8:)

[Duke John]

I'll have time tomorrow to be online. Hopefully we will get to play some games, I'll be in the foyer around 19:00 GMT, probably sooner.

Puzz3D
Check your messagebox, I've sent you the url.

Cheers, Duke John

Edit: Oh, and what are your online names?

[Puzz3D]

Look for MizuCBR and MizuYuuki.

[CBR]

Just a few comments on the units:

You mentioned changing turning ability but nothing has been changed so far..or maybe you just wanted to wait with that?

60/100 men longbows: Even though the 60 men longbows have armour and better melee I would still consider them to be too small. You get more firepower out of the 100 men units and firepower is the main thing for such a unittype...especially with longrange longbows that will reduce skirmishing in the game. The 60 men unit will find itself at a disadvantage IMO

Pikemen/Billmen: Now I know you talked about different turning ability. But what is the exact role of pikemen? If they are supposed to be worse at turning they have to have some kind of advantage somewhere else. From the tests I have seen so far they will eventually lose against billmen. All they have right now is the advantage of negating a cavalry charge but cavalry will not play that big a role in this mod. If what they can now is what you intend then they definitely need to be cheaper than Billmen.


CBR

[Duke John]

I had some games with CBR, and we concluded this:

Morale
There was no need to upgrade units for the sake of morale. I believe that both of us didn't upgrade any units and they all performed as you would expected. If people would play with valour 1 then the game would drag for very long.

Handguns
Not worth buying, the longbows outperform them. I put them in mostly for historical battles, but we may try to make more viable by dropping the cost.

Billmen
Changed to 80 men to make them more different from the pikes. Change turning rate.

Pikes
Improve defense, at the moment they will lose versus bills, which should be more of a draw. Their only advantage is versus cav and they don't play a big role in this mod. A bit better at holding the line. Change turning rate.

Halberdiers
At the moment not very good, but when the bills and pikes have a slower turning rate the halberdiers will be better at adapting to new situations. No changes.

Squires/Knights
They are not the close combat monsters that you expect them to be. +1 att and def.

Mounted MAA
Charge of 8 to give them more punch on the charge.

Prickers
One of the most interesting units in my opinion. You'll will need them to pursue routed units. But they also excell at mowing down longbows. To balance this unit it performs terribly versus infantry and this combination works good enough at the moment.

Longbows
Nothing wrong with this unit.

Armoured longbows
60 men are too few to be a good choice versus the regular longbows. They will get 80 men.

It's coming along nicely.

Cheers, Duke John

[Duke John]

CBR and Puzz3D
Download these edited stats (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/stats.zip) to avoid version conflicts in MP. Changing the MAX TURNSPEED didn't seem to change much, but we shall see ingame.

Hmmm, perhaps this thread should be moved to the Dungeon...

Cheers, Duke John

[Rob The Bastard]

Hey no problem :)

[Rob The Bastard]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Hi, Duke John

Relating to your WotR MOD you can bet that I will play it, specially since it performs as an add-on and you are working on an SP campaign.

You are correct in saying that new unit graphics attract attention to MODs, although lots of times a rebalancing of the game or a more historically accurate tweak is enough for me. BTW, your graphics are EXCELENT

Another plus that you mentioned, is that it is atractive having a different period to play. And that is really appealing for me.

Looking forward to seeing the final version. Good luck

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Hope we can enjoy the beauty of your units once again soon.Looking forward to this one and i like the idea of an add-on. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

Moved to the new Mod development forum area currently called Edit3, you may follow this topic there. thank you LOS

[KyodaiSteeleye]

I too am rather quite excited at the prospect of a new mod - especially the WotR, which was a definitive period in english medieval warfare.

I'm also all up on getting some historical accuracy into the armies.

Got an ETA when the mod might be released? - I think a good way of getting a mod played is to have threads where peeps can discuss the mod, and arrange a regular night to play each other.

Handguns - my understanding is that these were experimental weapons at the time and quite rare, so i wouldn't worry too much if they're not attractive in multiplay.



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Duke John]

Here is a rendering of my Squire model:
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/forum/render_squire.gif

Kyodai Steel
ETA is probably within 4/6 weeks. I'll be going on vacation twice, each a week, so that will slow things down.

Good point about the handguns.


Quote[/b] ]I think a good way of getting a mod played is to have threads where peeps can discuss the mod, and arrange a regular night to play each other.
Once the mod is close to being released I will put more effort into advertising it. It will for the time being exclusively built for custom/historical/mp games, so it will need lots of downloads to be effective. But since this an expansion with no effect on a regular MTW:Viking Invasion installation, there is little reason why it shouldn't be downloaded http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[NagatsukaShumi]

Hey DJ, I just had to drop by here sometime.

The screenshots look great, on a side note are you planning to make the Battle of Towton? Just a little personal connection with it as I live about a mile away from the battlefield.

Anyway, those units look far better than CA's ones (They are ok but...not very medievally) mostly because they look different from one another, I get tired of seeing the same BIF just with different weapons running about the battlefield all the time.

[Duke John]

And a rendering of a Billman:
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/forum/render_billmen.gif

NagatsukaShumi
At some point there will indeed be a battle(map) for Towton. I plan to have at least Towton, Barnet, Tekwesbury and Bosworth, and I hope with the help from Dirk.

Cheers, Duke John

[ShadesWolf]

Looking nice my friend
looking nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Ca should hire you because they even look better than what i've seen so far from RTW

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lord Bloodygore]

WOW those are some great looking units, can't wait to try it out my self.

Regards LBG http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Duke John]

SCREENSHOTS
Finished the first 3 BIFs of my Wars of the Roses mod. The squire, billman and longbow.

Enjoy,
Duke John

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_05.jpg
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_06.jpg
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_01.jpg
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_02.jpg
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_04.jpg
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_1_03.jpg

[Coldstream]

Duke John,

Absolutely first-class work Those are some of the best infantry I've ever seen. Can't wait for your release.

[Antalis::]

Very well made DJ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif


Antalis

[Norseman]

You have every reason to feel proud about those units DJ. They are awesome

Makes me wonder why CA didn't make them like that.

[Emp. Conralius]

Beautiful BIFs DJ But since they are from you, we wouldn't expect any less.

Unlike CA's Medieval units, your BIFs DONT look like they play for a 1940s American football team.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Really beautifull craftswork

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

DJ, The Squire unit is awesome well the others are as well,
but that one just stands out for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Fine Work...LOS

[Coldstream]

I like the archers. Oh yeah. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif

[Highlander X]

those units are amazing, but it's almost like you need to edit the terrian to make it crisp as the units, yeah i know not possible. those units stand out in contrast to the terrian, it just looks odd.

but beautiful work definatly looking forward to this mod, amazing work

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

DJ,
Will you have the famous historical battles/campaign as well,i know you asked for some help in creating the maps?

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

Quote[/b] ]
those units are amazing, but it's almost like you need to edit the terrian to make it crisp as the units, yeah i know not possible.

Actually, It is possible to edit terrains, * Turns towards DJ and gets a sinister grin* I know that your more interested in Models but have you ever tried making textures?

Anyway, just wondering http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[TosaInu]

Actually, there are already edited textures for terrain. Arid and lush. http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/MTW/Maps.shtml 10-19-03 by 7bearpolar7, Bumpmap effect. I guess they'll match the units.

[Eastside Character]

Duke John,

Those squires and others look like if they were real http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif



Regards,
EC

[Emp. Conralius]

DJ,

Will the pikes for your Pikemen unit actually appear sharp?

Lets not forget how the pikes in MTW looked like matchsticks, lol

[[{LgtDiv}] Lord Thindigital]

Great Work Duke John,

These units look awesome :)

congratulations

regards

LTD

[Emp. Conralius]

Wow, this is the only mod based on actual history that I'm excited to try.

Without exception, the units look fantastic. Particularly the Squires They look as though they came right out of the pages of history. Good show http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Polyphemos]

Astonishing… those units looks brilliant. I particularly like the squire.

The War of the Roses is a very interesting part of history, and I think it will make a god add-on. Looking forward to those Prickers.

[Brianbbj]

DAMN AMAZING DUKE JOHN

You are a TW God why do you not work for those who make Total War games.....

Stuff like this is making Medieval: total war into an everliving classic, even when R:TW comes out.

I just hope that you will expand this Mod also to include the English Civil War.

[Lord Xelous]

Great work sir...

http://www26.brinkster.com/bfield1942/cc/images/skellbow.gif

We're not worthy

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Lord Xelous @ Mar. 24 2004,00:10)]Great work sir...

http://www26.brinkster.com/bfield1942/cc/images/skellbow.gif

We're not worthy
Awesome, Lord Xelous http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Sun Tzui]

GREAT WORKhttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif


AWESOME UNITS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif


How's the work progressing?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Marshal Murat]

Whens it coming out, so I can read the black arrow?

[Duke John]

Back from vacation, so back to modding MTW.

Thank you all for the kind comments

About the terrain textures. I've looked into this before and you can't get them clearer since they are so blown up so much. In the screenshots the units look a bit sharper because I used the sharpen effect in PSP to sharpen (well duh) the images. JPGs tend to be smoothed, and since I wanted my units to look sharp (excuse the pun) I used that effect.

Again thank you all, it will encourage me alot to continue modding

Cheers, Duke John

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Really looking forward to playing your little gem...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

CZoF

[Duke John]

CBR sent me a PM with about a concept that I also had a while ago but I thought it might be confusing. The big difference is the differentation in Shire and Retinue troops. The former are larger in number but lack the discipline and training of the latter. I post it here to hopefully see some more comments on this.

Altered armylist


Men-at-Arms

40 Knights
Stats: excellent morale/def/att, good charge
Combat role: very effective combat unit. Slightly less cost effective (cost rises more than stats) than the Squires to avoid too many Knight units. Primarily in the mod for having a distinctive general unit.

40 Squires
Stats: Excellent morale/def/att, good charge
Combat role: not as good as the Knights, but still very effective in combat.

20 Mounted Knights Only possible if I can cram 2 cav in 1 BIF.
Stats: excellent morale/def/att/charge
Combat role: only 20 to ensure that this unit is not overused. Primarily in the mod for the historical battles. Most of the time the Knights were forced on foot to ensure that they would not run away. But nobody would stop the (aspirant) King himself from staying mounted.

40 Mounted Squires
Stats: excellent morale/def/att, good charge
Combat role: good for performing that decisive flank charge. Horse is unarmoured so it is still very vulnerable versus missiles.


Retinue troops

60 Armoured/Retinue Billmen
Stats: good morale/att, moderate charge/def
Combat role: hold the line and gradually kill opposition.

60/80 Armoured/Retinue Longbows
Stats: good morale/att, moderate charge/def
Combat role: This unit should act like an hybrid.

40 Prickers
Stats: good morale/def, bad att, excellent charge
Combat role: pursueing routers and attacking longbows.

Shire troops
These are lesser variants of the retinue troops. To reflect the lesser amount of training/drilling these units have worse manueverability and slightly worse stats.

80/100 (Shire) Billmen
Stats: moderate morale/charge/att/def
Combat role: hold the line. This unit is benefited by a rank bonus, and because of this has better defense than the retinue billmen. But this advantage is countered by worse manueverability.

100 (Shire) Longbows
Stats: moderate morale/charge, bad att/def
Combat role: English armies had alot of longbows, to reflect this, a 100 unit will provide enough longbows without the need of selecting 4 units. In other words, you can have the same amount missiles but with more slots left to fill with combat troops.


Mercenaries
The baronial families would often hire mercenaries from the mainland or Scotland. These often had weapons normally not used by English troops: the pike and the handgun.

100 Pikemen
Stats: moderate morale, bad att, good def, exellent charge
Combat role: hold the line. Very bad at manuevering, but will excel in a frontal charge and flanks covered. Might be able to defeat enemy unit on charge, but after the combat will be lenghtly, with few kills caused by the pikes.

60 Handgunners
Stats: moderate morale/charge, bad att/def
Combat role: I can't mod the projectile stats so the Handgunners will remain largely ineffective, although they do use the arquebus projectile stat. They are primarily in the mod for historical battles.

Culverin
Stats: moderate morale/charge, bad att/def
Combat role: siege

Cost of units
All units will be balanced for valour 0. You will be able to pick 16 units with 10000 florins. Upgrading units is not encouraged as it will destroy the balance.
I want to avoid the possibility of cheap units outperforming more expensive/better units simply by upgrading. So I want to seek unitcosts that are the same for most units. It's up to you to decide which version you want. For example for 600 florins you might be able to buy retinue or shire billmen. Shire billmen are best in the center, but the retinue billmen are best at the flanks. It will be quite a task to perfect this concept, but I think it will be worth the trouble. Otherwise I might get the situation where certain units are far from effective and that would be a waste of time.

Cheers, Duke John

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi Duke.

Army listings look good. Note sure from your note - will retinue troops have better armour than shire units? This would make sense, i think, as their equipment would likely to be paid for by their noble. Higher morale and stats for retinue troops is good, as they would be more likely to have better training, and might even be veterans.

I guess another mercenary troop type could be Flemish crossbowmen or the like - however putting these in might rather unbalance the MP game and make it very similar to the existing VI MP.

One last question - will your amazing unit BIFs require a lot of processing power? I'm really looking forward to this mod, but not sure if my poor old AMD600 will cope

Span.

[Duke John]

Rest assured Kyodai, my unit BIFs use the exact same technique as the official ones. I couldn't even do otherwise, so yes your computer will perform exactly the same as before. The only change is the look of units.

Retinue troops will be better equipped but fewer in numbers.

Cheers, Duke John

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Have you got a release date planned Duke John?

[Duke John]

More screenshots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

The army of the Prince of Wales
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_2_03.jpg

A nice battleline
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_2_01.jpg

The elite Men-at-Arms fighting
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_2_02.jpg

BKB
No, I don't have an ETA. Next week I'll be away again and I really can't tell how much time I can afford on the mod.

Cheers, Duke John

[Polyphemos]

Ah, more eye-candy. Looking good as always

[Sun Tzui]

Ahhh....a great sight for sore eyes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[NormanPain]

Simply...Stunning. I can't wait for this one to be done...beautifull man, beautifull.

[dimitrios the samian]

Fantastic Graphics , excellent period I cant wait either
cheers

[Nomad]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Hi Duke John,
The mod looks Graphically excellent. Really looking forward to getting my hands on those units. Waiting on a copy of 3dsMax5 so will be trying to make units my newbie self soon. I was wondering if you ever found those tweaked MTW unit bifs, that you were going to post for download in the Alchemists. I'm guessing they've disappeared. But was really looking forward to them so thought I'd take a stab in the dark.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[NormanPain]

I have a few questions, you can answer if you have time but, are you going to make your own campaign map and are you going to include historical battles and or campaigns...also are you going to make the Arquebusiers more accurate becase in real life firing a volley and killing 1 person is rediculous...whole armies of knights were wiped out by these things which is why knights came to a close. No they weren't incredibly accurate but they could certainly hit each other otherwise why would we have switched to using guns? They were far more expensive then bows. Also please tell me your guns look like guns...MTW's look like a pipe stuck to a stump...also are you going to have the stick thing(Cant remember what its called right now) that they used to set the end of their barrels on when they fired(those guns weighed 18 pounds you know...)Anyways I am asking to many questions and have most likely become an annoyance so I will just leave it at that, take care all.

[Duke John]

Thanks all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

NormanPain

Campaign and Historical Battles
The mod will come with a campaign map of England (I will modify the VI map) and also with 4 historical battles to start with. I may add more battles, but I will make at least Barnet, Tewkesbury, Towton and Bosworth.

Accuracy of Handgunners
This mod will be an expansion for M:TW - VI. That means that if you have a normal installation then you can install this mod without any consequences for your normal games. However this comes at a prices and that is less flexibility for me when modding; I cannot change how projectiles work without affecting MP-compatability.
However the Handgunners will have the arquebusier projectile type to make them a bit better than MTW Handgunners.

Guns
This is what I got from my sources:
The method of firing the handgun appears to have differed. Early handguns were held under the arm and fired by lightning the touch hole with the glowing tip of a match.[...]
The position in which some of the handgunners are holding their weapons i.e. with the butt of the gun rested on the should instead of against it, tends to suggest that accurate firing could not have been possible without a serpentine mechanism holding the match - since the right hand would have been required to steady the aim if the butt was rested on the shoulder.
[Source: The Swiss at War by Osprey Publishing]

I think I will place the guns on the shoulder as they are indeed heavy weapons to hold. In my sources I have not come across the stick thing to hold the gun, I believe that this was developed later.
And I will of course render the shooting with a flash as in the old days of STW

Cheers, Duke John

[NormanPain]

I was reffering to the early Matchlocks...which is what a Arquebusier is, a handgun(or hand gonne as it was called then) is the weapon you reffered to as unsteady... Plus from what I can find on period firearms...the Matchlock came before the hand gonne and the Arquebus surprisingly. Oh and the stick thing is simply called a fork or rest.http://www.st-arbogast.org/Guidelines/weapons%20guidlines/WEPIONS/musketeer2.gif

Also they used hemp that was braided and coated in salt pewter as the match.

Your mod sounds great and Im happy with just Tewkesbury and Towton being included let alone the others.

Check this page for infor on period firearms: http://www.st-arbogast.org/Guidelines/weapons%20guidlines/fire.htm

Im sorry I dont mean to be a nuisance or anything I just want to help if I can. Thanks for hearing me out, I cant wait for this to be out.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi Norman,

The picture you append is of a 17th century musketman - probably from the english civil war, when massed ranks of handguns were starting to become effective, even though they were very inaccurate.

Hand guns in the 15th century however had not been developed such that they were particularly effective battlefield weapons. Indeed, i think the MTW rendering of them as above all 'morale' weapons, with little actual combat effectiveness, is accurate.

Daniel.

[NormanPain]

I suppose but knights were terrified of them and it had to be for a reason other then the sound and the fact that one or two guys would drop dead...I mean they had to have hit quite a few wouldnt they? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif

[Duke John]

More of my favorite habit: posting screenshots http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin2.gif

The finished Armoured/Retinue Longbows:
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_3_02.jpg

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_3_03.jpg

And the Armoured/Retinue Billmen
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/battle_3_01.jpg

NormanPain
Let's not turn this thread into a discussion about the effectiveness of handguns. I cannot chance it so there is no use talking about it. However I found it strange that you said it was a fact that one or two guys would drop dead. I did a single test and placed my 60 handgunners (but they are using arquebusses) 2 deep. I gave the AI 40 knights and the handgunners felled 9 nine of them in a single shot. If this happened together with bowfire or when the knights are tired, then this would probably mean a rout. And I did see this often in my battles. Use your handgunners primarily at wandering units who have seen combat; a single volley usually routs them.
This did not happen and the knights cut 19 handgunners down in 1 second as vengeance...

Cheers, Duke John

[Ypoknons]

And your posting of screenshots is the habit we like most about you. :) Well, not entirely true but they are top notch screenshots. Though I do worry about the balancing part myself.

By the way, what happened to the medieval unit upgrades? Did you have any luck finding them on your hard drive or ... ?

[Duke John]

Ypoknons
I intent to balance the mod with help from the community. CBR already helped me in the beginning but more is needed. Luckily the scale is very small, the campaign will only have 2 factions and for MP and custom battles there will be only 10/11 units. Also I will balance for 10K without upgrades; I want to avoid the numbercrunching of MTW where the perfect upgrade/cost/effectiveness is sought. While testing my units it plays nicely especially when you take something of everything.

The Unitgraphics pack is finished. Check that thread over 5 minutes.

Cheers, Duke John

[Ypoknons]

Many thanks, Duke John. And yes, I think that the smaller scale of this mod is a good thing in a way - it meens that we'll have lots of time to play, especially before RTW distracts us.

Best of luck

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Like the retinue billmen, Dukejohn - V.nice.

[dimitrios the samian]

Gooday Duke John , keep up the good work on your mod I will definately play it . CBR tell me about your mod PM wars ?

[NormanPain]

I appologize for turning it into a discussion about handuns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

One thing though...I said 'Handgunners' could only fell a couple people(A hand gun is basically a hand cannon on a stick)...an Arquebus is a completely different weapon, more accurate as it is an early form of musket. But I will no longer bother you here, again I appollogize. Before I go I would like to add that your mod looks fantastic and I cannot wait until it is out...Im sure it will be a fine contribution to MTW. I wish you luck.

[alexmonkey]

will the main campaign map be of england or the british isles, like in VI?

How far have you got with this as i am intested in beta testing it for you.
thanks

[CBR]

And Im always ready for more tests if you need it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


CBR

[alexmonkey]

Is the main mod/game still quite buggy, or is it stable? I would also be happy to find out some information on the units of the time and some historic stuff for you.

[Duke John]

CBR http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Thanks I will give you the next beta then once I have finished all the BIFs and when I'm done cleaning up some imperfections of the tactical part.

NormanPain
You don't need to apologize. Feedback is always welcome My remark was more to avoid a discussion then anything else. And it certainly was not personaly directed at you.

Alexmonkey
The campaignmap will compromise England (so excluding Scotland and Ireland). I am at the moment trying to setup the campaign, so it is still very buggy. I just needed to recover some old files because it didn't load, but alas that is the life of a modder.

Cheers, Duke John

[Duke John]

Campaign map
I've been (and still am) modding the campaignfile to suit the WotR setting. It has the following features: 2 playable factions, the Lancastrians and the Yorkists.

10 unplayable factions that die out after ending the first turn. These are put in for diversity in Custom and MP battles. You will need at least 8 faction to make a campaign work, but in the construction that I have devised the 10 unplayable factions will rarely bother you. However they will occasionnally reappear, which is not only historical (there were uprisings/revolts and some dukes decided that they were powerfull enough to become king) but will also provide more of a challenge

Almost no existant techtree. The AI is not capable of building up provinces adequately. Also the WotR campaign will only last 32 years so the sometimes long build times would be a big pain. This will focus the campaign on army movement and battles. Which suits me just fine as I have grown tired of the inadequate AI.

No castles. Again, the span of the campaign is very small and long sieges will only unneccesarily slow down the pace of the game. Also there were very few sieges during the WotR, the Tower of London and London and itself were besieged and also some castles were bombarded into submission. London will be the only castle present. Conquering London will have the reward in the form of the fat title Protector of the Realm.
During the WotR the English population was mostly left alone safe for some looting by the winning side in a nearby village. The barons needed to have the favour of the population and that is why they mostly fought pitched battles. Excluding castles from the game will make sure that you will also play pitched battles.[/list]That being said, I would appreciate some feedback from fans of this period about my campaignmap:
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/england_regions.gif
I used a historical map as reference but I am not sure about certain provinces: Lancaster, Anglesey, The Welsh provinces (I would prefer other names), Leicester, Bedford.
They grey provinces are necessary to place the 10 unplayable factions on the campmap. They will die out immediately and the provinces will become rebels. They will also act as buffers initially and as quick safe expansion areas.

EDIT: Blue are the Lancastrians and Red the Yorkists.

Thanks for any info,
Duke John

[alexmonkey]

If it would help Then i could look up some history stuff about england fro you, i know loads of history sites and stuff. camp map looks good though

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi DukeJohn,

Been trying to get a decent historical county map of england and wales off the internet, but alas don't seem to be able to find one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif (Caxton's 16th C one would be the best). If you could, i would be very tempted to have every historical county as a seperate province, would that be unrealistic in terms of the gameplay? Not sure about some of your provinces or titles - chester (county - cheshire) is more accurately Flintshire. Derby would be more accurate as either chester (cheshire) or Lancaster (lancashire). West Marches could be Carlisle (Cumberland), Hampshire more accurate as Wiltshire. Guess my trouble is that i'm english, so i don't like to see province names that cover much wider areas than they do in reality

On the factions - did you ever play the board game kingmaker? This had a very good system where factions were made up of allied nobles. Check out this link for a list of the one's featured in the game and actual biographies of their often tragic histories in the wars (from a Yorkist slant, methinks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

http://home.sprintmail.com/~cfitzgerald/kingmaker/nindex.html

You could have the two main factions as Duke of York and Duke of Lancaster, and then have your other minor factions as the notable nobles from the period. I would suggest Neville, Percy, Stanley, Mowbray, Stafford, Herbert, Beaufort, De La Pole, Holland and Talbot.

I agree that not having castles will speed the game up - although have to watch that it doesn't lead to loads of rebellions No tech tree is good, as for the period of time we're talking about, there weren't any military advances. I suppose you could have the event on taking London as '****** crowned king

Regards,

Daniel.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

PS: I guess if you wanted to be historically accurate, you could have the starting positions of the two main factions correspond to their historical noble family supporters - although this could be problematical, as many of them switched sides more than once over the period

D.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I'd change leicester to the midlands, or call it east midlands and change stafford to the west midlands

[dclare4]

Well you probably won't want to go as far as I wanted to do with the WotR mod I planned to do before. That being said, I think that you should base it on Titles (and the land areas they are attached to) rather than being so married to the physical map. The wars, as far as I understand them, were more about power and position and being in the position to influence whichever Plantagenet was on the throne rather than about capturing land - they couldn't hold the land legally anyway (though they could raid and chevauchee) as it was through Parliament and the orders of the king (writs of attainder) that land and titles were transferred. Similarly I would actually suggest that you dispense with the 'Lancaster' and 'York' sides and make it a battle between noble factions like in the Kingmaker game. If you can tweak the Grand Campaign goals then you could make the ultimate objective the construction of a CATHEDRAL w/c could symbolize becoming the 'kingmaker' or the power behind the throne as aspired to by the major players like Beaufort of Somerset, Neville of Warwick, Wydeville and Percy (from an earlier time).

No offense but the map looks kinda like the one in the new Paradox game, Crusader Kings. I would suggest that:

1. subdivide Yorkshire and Durham if possible to give place for places like Durham (of the Prince Bishops), Richmond, Raby (of the Nevilles), Wakefield and Sandal (of York), and the places of the Yorkshire supporters of Lancaster.
2. make London a single 'county' in itself.
3. Represent the major Archbishoprics of Canterbury and York and the bishoprics of Carlisle, Durham, Winchester, Ely and Norwich.
4. Include as much as possible the major Earldoms and battle locations.
5. If possible separate the major Welsh castles of Caernarvon, Harlech and Beaumaris (or you could make a 'jump map' if you can figure out how to do it - a player has to conquer the Anglesey area and only from there can he attack the individual castles - to emphasize the strength and difficulty of sieging the Welsh castles. Would suggest similar treatment with the ff castles/towns:

London
Coventry
Pontefract
Kenilworth
Carisbrooke
Dover
Corfe
Berwick
Bamburgh
Roxburgh

6. Leicester should contain a whole bunch of places including Northampton, the manors of the Hollands and Wydevilles as well as Fotheringhay. Also, try to include the Isle of Ely (where your Bedford is) w/c is actually a highly defensible island cathedral. I would also suggest making most places generally indefensible and fortress construction long and expensive and not a priority with the AI w/c will increase the value of those places historically fortified as listed above. The wars were not much about sieges and castles as they were about pitched battles and intrigue.

7. The Northern Marches and Western Marches were next to the Scottish Border. The area you have in your map is equivalent to the Welsh March, Powys and Gwent where the great lords of BOTH SIDES had tons of manors and castles.

8. One major turn off that made me abandon the mod was the criminally poor diplomatic rules. I was dreaming of seeing an army of allied lords each with his own heraldic colours and shields but the poor diplomatic rules preclude this. If you can find a way around this shortcoming more power to you If not, I would suggest that you stick to the major players - Lancaster, York, Percy, Neville - the others were generally subsumed into the side they picked (though it would be so much more fun to have all these shifting alliances) and the major lords didn't change sides too much (except for maybe Percy and Buckingham).

9. I would suggest you represent a small part of Eastern Ireland (as much of Ireland as possible actually) as this was a Yorkist stronghold as well as Calais, one province for France in general, one for Norway and one for the Low Countries. Actually France (in the form of the 'Great Spider' Louis) generally supported Lancaster in the wars with money and mercenaries and also because its rival Burgundy supported York (Margaret Plantagenet, daughter of the Duke of York, was married to Charles of Burgundy), while the burghers of the Low Countries generally supported York as vassals of Burgundy and because Edward IV encouraged trade with them. These places (France and probably Scotland for Lancaster; Burgundy, Low Countries, Ireland for York) are almost like safehouses where they can flee when things are turned around.

Regards,
Clare

[Duke John]

No castles? Guess again
I did some testing and apparently the games requires you to have a castle before you can train troops. This is a major setback as this will result in a siegebattle for everyprovince as the AI always retreats into the castle.

Subdividing the map
While I am able to do this, I really don't have any motivation to do this. Also I think that because of the small timespan the campaign is better with lesser regions.

Political intrigue
Also for me one of the attracting points of the WotR are the different families who fought for their own goals. More factions would touch this aspect very lightly as the diplomatic game is very limited and flawed. I won't change the GA system since then the mod wouldn't be an expansion anymore. Also it wouldn't work 100% as the GA only go up to 1450 (or whatever the end of the Late campaign is).

Do we need really want a campaign?
I am not so sure anymore wether the WotR can be done good enough. Of course I can do it with all kind of shortcomings and illusions that you have to pretend, but I have the opinion that I do it well or not. The castle thing is really bothering me as seiges are hindering incredibly. So for the coming time I will the campaign as it is and get back to fixing the tactical part and focus on making historical battles.

And perhaps we can make an online campaign where some enthusiastics each get assigned a duchy or something and we will have online battles and some political backstabbing on a special WotR forum. Or perhaps just recreating all the battles fought during the WotR. Much easier and we can do that with 6 people.

For me the campaign was always a bit of an extra just to have a story around the battles. The battles are what I am primarily interested in, so if we can get a group together and recreate all the battles I will be a very happy person

Cheers, Duke John

[Brianbbj]

Duke John.


Please release your unit package so i can have some Custom battles

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi DukeJohn.

Considering the hastle involved, and the fact that the MTW strategic game doesn't really lend itself very well to the period, i would be inclined to agree - it will take you a long time to implement the strategy game and you may not be able to make it that great at the end of the day. So concentrate on the MP and historical battle bits - they'll be the most fun anyway.

If we could organise a WoTR multiplayer scenario, that would be great, with each player taking on a historical family and lining up on a lancastrian or yorkist side. Would you be up for that Clare? - you seem quite into the period.

[Nomad]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Sounds like WofTR has been shelved from the last few posts. A sad moment indeed. Was really looking forward to fighting a campaign on a detailed England map. Although the map does/did need a little ammending. Derby is a midlands county. What you have as Derby (Pec Saetum in Viking Invasion) is the larger part of what should be the Palitanate of Lancaster. Kingamker as mentioned earlier is a good source for a game design. But not for mapmaking.
In reference to some of your listed problems. If you wanted to stop tech tree development you could just increase the set times on building constuction. Its also possible to mod AI behaviour to prevent it/or at least make it less likely to start a siege. At least I've read you can make it more likely. So assume to reverse can be done. I think only multiplayer and muliple factions would allow you to create the double dealing, backstabbing spirit of time.
But if two factions is the best option, maybe if units were all, region specific with a bit of appropriate heraldry somewhere you could simulate factions for single player. Bribery could be the tool to win these provinces/factions over, rather than unrealistic conquest. You could make most provinces rebellious to allow lots of double dealing and side changing.
OK these suggestions might be a bit naive, but those graphics were enough for me to want to have a go. However your the man, and you know how this all works more than I do. But maybe, if you've abondoned ship they could be used to develop an UltimateMTW or an Early Renaissance mod using the existing campaign map.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ypoknons]

My good Nomad, I think Duke John's main focus in this mod has always been battles, especially multiplayer battles. The fact that he has had difficulties with the single player components is by no means getting the mod shelved.

[Duke John]

The mod is NOT shelved

As Ypoknons correctly said, my main focus is on the battles. I think that the AI is not capable enough to provide me with enough challenge while acting even vaguely historical. It cannot build techtrees or build up decent armies. I would accept that if I could make the campaign even vaguely historical, but now even that is not possible as it will be just a row of sieges, and that clashes heavily with the short period (30 years or so) as sieges take alot of time in MTW.

I saw the campaign as something extra, but my main interest lies with recreating the historical battles and after that just playing battles, hopefully with other people online.

I think that there is enough interest by some people to start up a little group that play a MP-campaign, so that the battles are connected to each other. If we then adhere to some guidelines on the use of medieval tactics then we can truly relive that interesting period. And in my eyes much better than possible with a SP campaign.

Cheers, Duke John

[dclare4]

Yes I am very much into the period ever since I played Kingmaker, heck actually ever since I read Richard III (Shakespeare) - still can recite the opening speech by heart. I'm a pretty devoted Ricardian (someone who doesn't believe R3 was all that bad) particularly after reading Tey and Tom Costain's history of the Plantagenets. So yes I'm terribly interested in the period and everytime a medieval game comes along I keep hoping it's going to do the wars justice - Kingmaker was superb for its time but it cut too many historical corners. There's an excellent game going on but it's a play-by-mail thing and I think it's only taking place in England but it's really got the details and role playing down.

I suffered a cataclysmic hard drive crash unfortunately and I fear all my WotR modding for MTW VI went with it - was focusing more on the mechanics in-game rather than the graphics w/c I have no gift for, including names and such. One thing I'm experimenting with is not being too hung up on military units - why can't we have 'armed mobs' or 'highwaymen' or 'knight errants' or even 'lawyers' to deliver writs of attainder. Anyways, if you ever have a question I'll try and help out.

I think that your idea for not doing a strategic maneuver campaign may just work. Focus on the graphics, the mechanics, the battles and the rest will come. I think the biggest hurdle to any MTW mod is the graphics - I've got tons of great ideas that will never happen because I just have no talent for animating soldier graphics - so once that's done the mod can just grow naturally :)

Unfortunately I've got no multiplayer capability - my game computer isn't connected to the internet - but I can help with research and such.

Best regards,
Clare

[dclare4]

By the way,

Check out the ff:

http://www.richard111.com/roses.htm

If you need help with the names for your 'factions' look for the lance&longbow's freezywater flag sheets or check out any decent geneology page on the various noble families - you'll need a bit of familiarization to cross reference them all but the freezywater document is a good starting point.

Also:

http://freespace.virgin.net/sheldon.stevens/nobsofe.html

This is from the excellent Rosewar page w/c will take you a LONG way in familiarizing yourself with the period if you haven't already seen it :)

Best of luck,
Clare

[alexmonkey]

hello again,

i have allready found out some information about the war of the roses for you, ill pm or post it on here later on.~:p

i have a little disster http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif , i just uninstalled MTW and then tried to install it again, but when i insrted the cd into the drive , it smashed it into pieces and it spat out the remains http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif. is it possible to buy like the cds alone somewhere?

help me

alex

[Angelnessuno]

hi duke john i had 2 question for you:
-is the next realase near or not(i can't wait)?
-mtw is so inaccurate can i suggest you to use your new units to change the inaccurate medieval total war units
for example the gotic foot knight can be changed with your elite man -at-arm
-what do you think about it?
-i can't wait ...i would test your new units please
post them somewhere please
you are great
i would be very glad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Duke if you want any help in play testing the different units, just ask. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]-mtw is so inaccurate can i suggest you to use your new units to change the inaccurate medieval total war units
for example the gotic foot knight can be changed with your elite man -at-arm
I won't change the original game in any way as that would imcompatibility for MP. With my current setup the mod allows full playabability of all other periods without any changes. It does not work well with other mods though.


Quote[/b] ]you are great
No, I am just tall and skinny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif


Quote[/b] ]-is the next realase near or not(i can't wait)?
Just read on http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin2.gif


Quote[/b] ]Duke if you want any help in play testing the different units, just ask.
That is a coincidence I was just thinking of releasing the mod in its current state, I have finished:
- 7 BIFs; Knights, Squires, Billmen, Armoured Billmen, Longbows, Armoured Longbows, Pikemen.
- Coloured shields and flags for the factions (so without emblems).

I want to add:
- Historical battles with new maps.
- Emblems for the factions.
- 3 more BIFs: Mounted Men-at-arms, Prickers and Handgunners.

Now let me first sort out all the files and I will upload it shortly. Watch this space and the Dungeon News closely Once released I hope to see other fans of this period online http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

Cheers, Duke John http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif

[Brianbbj]

i think you should consider making this a double mod, where you also include the English Civil War, why want this is becouse i know that if you make it Duke John, then it would be good.

know that is somehow out of topic, but i just had to said it.

[Nomad]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ May 08 2004,20:24)]That is a coincidence I was just thinking of releasing the mod in its current state, I have finished:
- 7 BIFs; Knights, Squires, Billmen, Armoured Billmen, Longbows, Armoured Longbows, Pikemen.
- Coloured shields and flags for the factions (so without emblems).

I want to add:
- Historical battles with new maps.
- Emblems for the factions.
- 3 more BIFs: Mounted Men-at-arms, Prickers and Handgunners.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
What a magnaminous Dude,
Many thanks DJ.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]i think you should consider making this a double mod, where you also include the English Civil War
No, I disagree. The Wars of the Roses were in my eyes one of the last medieval wars. I am not interested in the period after 1500. When you look at the units during the civil war and during the WotR, then there is a big difference and so I would need to create a whole lot more BIFs and that of a period I do not like. So no.

Cheers, Duke John

[SpetzNatz]

Duke John.
May I ask you for some favour? I like your units and I want to learn 3D moddeling, could you tell me what tool do you use for it, and send me some sample units to open and test it? I'm totally confused (as everyone who is trying something new) and it could really help. Thank you. And my e-mail is: v.pelcak@post.cz

[Duke John]

SpetzNatz, I can't just explain how to make new unitgraphics. I am making a guide and you might want to see Chapter 6 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=26;t=17763) about the programs needed to model. Then follow tutorials for your program and start simple, as you grow more accustomed to the program it will be a small leap to importing your renderings to MTW.

I will not send you my models as they are the source files. I have worked very hard on them and while I spread the BIFs freely for use by others I would hate to see my models being used others and forgetting to credit me. I hope you understand.

Duke John

[SpetzNatz]

I expected this. People are often very ungrateful and reckless, so there's no wonder that you expect it from me. Sorry to bother you.

Last question.
Could you tell me how to convert pictures to bif? I use Readbif and 8-bit BMP and it produces something very terrible. I've also tried those tools from CA with TGA format, but with the same results.

Thank you.

[dclare4]

Just off the cuff:

Badges...

Yorkist - Sun in Splendour
Richard III - White Boar
Beaufort - Portcullis
Vere - De Vere Star OR Blue Boar
Henry of Richmond - Red Dragon of Wales
Neville - Bear and Ragged Staff
Stafford - Stafford Knot or the Silver Swan Badge

best regards,
Clare

[Duke John]

I mainly use the Osprey books for reference as they are much more visually oriented. Also the library in my city is very limited on the Wars of the Roses so I might not have the recources that you have. But these are the badges that I found and will probably use:

Somerset: white/blue per fess, yellow portcullis.
Edward IV: blue/red per fess, white rose with yellow streams coming behind from it, might be sun in splendour
Richard III: blue/red per fess, white boar, white roses, yellow detailing
Norfolk: red, white lion passant
Oxford: red, blue boar
Dorset: white/black chevron, black sallets
Warwick: red, 3 white ragged staffs
Gloucester: red/blue per fess, white boar
Northumberland: yellow/tawney, blue lion passant
Prince of Wales: black/red per fess, 3 white ostrich feathers
Hastings: blue, black bull with crown around neck
Henry VII: argent/vert per fess, red dragon
Henry VI: white/blue per fess, white antilope with crown around neck and chain

[Nomad]

Hey DJ,
Did you decide against an early release of the WoTR stuff then. Or are you just teasing us.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Duke John]

Well, shoot me for being a perfectionist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

I was indeed planning to upload the stuff, but then I got sucked into modding again and now I have most of the faction emblems finished (so why not do all of them), I finally did a new uniticon (and it came out pretty perfect, so why not do all of them) and then there are some glitches with the graphics (which are easily fixed, so why not do them before releasing the beta?)... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
So that means that the first release is a little bit postponed. I am still not planning to include cavalry as I want the games to focus around infantry. We'll just have to play on small maps to avoid long marches.

One question for you Nomad: How big of a fan are you of this period? If a lot, then check your PM inbox http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

Have fun,
Duke John

[Nomad]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Efrem Da King]

YAY its aboot time someone made one of these. Wars of the Roses is by far my fav war http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif



If I can be of any help just say.

[TonkaToys]

DJ,

we were talking about using my multi-player campaign system for your WotR mod... I've posted a reply in The Alchemists Lab / Multiplayer Campaign. (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=16648)

I'll try to keep all future updates in there.

[Duke John]

[http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif]

http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/wotr_banner.gif

Wars of the Roses BETA version 0.1 released

The mod isn't finished yet and you will probably notice some glitches, but my progress is halting and I hope that feedback from the fans of this period will inspire me. So read on and play some games

Installation
Follow the steps below to install WotR beta 0.1:- Download the WotR beta v0.1 from this location (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/download.htm)
- Copy the content of the ZIP into your M:TW installation folder.[/list]The mod only works if you have the following:- Medieval: Total War + Viking Invasion expansion installed
- English version
- No other mods installed.[/list]Gameplay
Battles during the Wars of the Roses were mostly between large bodies of infantry. Cavalry played a very limited part as the longbow and the various staff weapons made mounted units ineffective.

Battles mostly began with a missile war. Since both sides had the ability to field longbows it they cancelled each other out. At a certain time the infantry would no longer stand the barrage of missiles and then the lines would move forward.

There are 4 different troop types: Men-at-Arms (very effective but few in numbers), Retinue troops (flexible and reasonably strong), Shire troops (many in numbers but not as trained as the Retinue troops) and Mercenaries (various troop types that were hired from the mainland).

Playtesting
Unitcosts and stats are not 100% balanced yet. When you decide to help me balance the stats then always play with no upgrades, be it valour, weapons or armour. The quickest way to destroy balance is by upgrading your units.

What holds the future?
The current version needs the following to be complete:
- Names for the commanders
- Flags and shields for various factions
- Icons for several units

And I will also add the following:
- 3 more BIFs, that means 3 more units. At the moment I am thinking of Mounted Men-at-Arms, Handgunners and Culverins.
- More factions so that we are able to recreate all historical battles with the right commanders.
- Maps of the famous battle sites
- Historical Battles/Campaigns

To complete the experience I am also working on a Wars of the Roses website that gives more background to the commanders, battles and units. That site will probably also feature multi-player campaigns consisting of linked battles.

Last words
I would appreciate any feedback on this mod, be it balance suggestions, a list of names or maps, it will probably mean that this mod only gets better

Have fun,
Duke John

[/http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif]

[Eastside Character]

Great news Duke John http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif Downloaded. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Regards,
EC

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Thank you will try this one out with great pleasure

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Ellesthyan]

Woohoo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Angelnessuno]

great mod but now my pc is broken so i can't download it.....
please can the link stay here for two weeks? i must download your great mod....damn my pc

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]please can the link stay here for two weeks?
Perhaps the link will be removed, but only because the full version has replaced it

And thanks for the comments so far http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-nice.gif

[Gen_Lee]

1Q.

You stated that will run only with Mtw + vi but I assume that vi patch is included, right?

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]You stated that will run only with Mtw + vi but I assume that vi patch is included, right?
The Viking Invasion patch version 2.01 is not included with the mod. You will have to do that seperately from the mod, and you should have done that the moment the patch came out since it fixed alot of stuff.

But that matters little for the mod; you can play WotR battles with or without the patch.

[Angelnessuno]

i think that you are one of the great creator of mod here

and i can't wait your Mounted Men-at Arms .....i think that they will be great ...the Mounted Men-at-Arms of the original mtw aren't so clean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lysander]

Duke John, I am very impressed with the quality of your work, the new units are very nice. I hope that you may have time to add a mounted unit or two, the default MTW ones are kind of sickening compared to yours. Thanks for sharing them with us.
Anyway, I noticed that and the review-panel icons of your units were plagued with the black dot problem, which I could not figure out how to solve for a long time in my own mods. However, there is a fix to this using the Seqgrab.exe utility and I posted a short guide in the Alchemist Lab. But this is only a little thing.
Thanks. Lysander.

[Emp. Conralius]

A real pleasure to play.


If you dont have it already, you should def. d/l this beta right away

New factions, great looking NEW units, what more could you ask for (besides a working camp. map).

I salute you DJ for all your efforts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Nomad]

Yo DJ,
It rocks. These are in my opinion the best Graphics I've seen on the MTW engine. As said shame you can't do a few more mounted units or somebody pay you to re-work the whole game. The retinue troops versatility makes them very interesting and useful, reducing some of the rock, paper, scissor qualities that haunt the game. The battle balance has over several games remained close. With combat swinging back and forth, So I haven't changed anything balance-wise yet. I've modded the WoTR into the main game now and I'm going to see how they fare against a Continental system. I'm assuming they'll end up week on the flanks when facing Knights, light infantry and Cavalry.
I'm Not sure if you included these with some of the factions but maybe a few Irish Gallowglaicht and bonnacht mercenaries would be interesting. Although Bonnachts actually fought with a variety of weapons (the name is a generic term for levied troops, If I remember correctly). Plus Breton Javelins and some Flemish units would spice up the intrigue and Irish(Teaglach)or Anglo Irish Cavalry. I cant remember your unit rosters for the Yorkist and Lancastrian, of hand but The Yorkist's should have less access to Mounted units than the Lancastrians. Many thanks DJ. Think there's going to be a few new units in the MTWLate period now. Condoitteri Halbardiers, Angrez Pike, Verloener Hoeffen. Ordnance MAA, Ordnance dismounted knights, ooooh I can hardly wait
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Duke John]

Mounted Units
There will be mounted units in the future. I didn't include them in the beta as they require a different approach modelwise. But they will come, I think I can put 2 units in a single BIF. That will leave me 2 other BIFs that I can use for other units.


Quote[/b] ]The battle balance has over several games remained close. With combat swinging back and forth
A very good thing to hear


Quote[/b] ]I'm Not sure if you included these with some of the factions but maybe a few Irish Gallowglaicht and bonnacht mercenaries would be interesting.
I am not so sure about this. I don't have enough BIFs to do them both and only 1 seems like trying but not succeeding. I think I will restrict it to English and continental troops (the mercenaries).


Quote[/b] ]I cant remember your unit rosters for the Yorkist and Lancastrian, of hand but The Yorkist's should have less access to Mounted units than the Lancastrians.
Well, that is because there are no seperate Yorkist and Lancastrian lists. I want to the armylists the same to avoid balance problems. Might be a bit bland, but so was S:TW and people are still playing that.

Cheers,
Duke John

[Nomad]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ May 25 2004,13:13)]I think I can put 2 units in a single BIF. That will leave me 2 other BIFs that I can use for other units.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I'm guessing you mean cramming two sets of bodies on to the same Bif. And if so thats a very cunning ploy. Should be easier with the mounted units. As far as Gallowglaicht's etc you could use the MTW bodies if you don't mind contaminating your artwork. But I don't blame you if you want to keep it as it is. As you say you want to maintain the balance and yes Shogun did keep everyone very happy, quality not quantity and all that.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Kaatar]

DJ, I can't get the campaign to work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


Kidding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Very nice. It plays well and those graphics so so damn sexy ... you should be working for CA. They've got nothing on you.

Well done http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]DJ, I can't get the campaign to work


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh.gif
Almost got me there Although it will probably a matter of days before somebody seriously posts such a question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Quote[/b] ]It plays well and those graphics so so damn sexy
This may sound arrogant, but... I know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif I had ordered a couple of Osprey books about the Wars of the Roses which have illustrations made by Graham Turner. Once I saw his paintings I knew that I just had to make these models. The armour and livery of those times are in my eyes just so much more appealing than those of a century earlier. I might be a fetist, but there is something about sallets and full body armour... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shy.gif

[Dirk]

Duke John,

Although you've emphasized that your mod only works well with a fresh install of MTW + VI there is still a question I would like to ask about that.
I do have MTW + VI and I've got the reconquista ADD ON added to it. As an add on does not change anything in the original files it follows (I think) that your mod could safely be added as well....or am I wrong.
It's important for me know as I've got a 20 Gig Hd and would still like to keep enough space for an extra install of MTW for the upcoming HTW mod.

[Boudicea]

Cool mod, Graphics are excellent. I agree with most of what you have said. I do disagree slightly with what you said about upgrading units though. I play a lot of mods but mostly NTW (and now yours) and upgrading is essential, I think it adds to the game not take anything away from it, and gives you something extra to think about. Saying that though I have played your mod on and off line with no upgrades and 10,000 florins as suggested and also played online with 90.000 florins. Both games played excellent and are enjoyable. Can I ask a couple of questions though, regarding that map of England you showed Oxfordshire,Berkshire and Wiltshire were not included was there a reason for this? Forgive my ignorance but my favourite period in history was just after the War of The Roses. I also strongly agree with you about the need NOT to do a campaign but I hope there will be some historical battles, I love these. If you are short of testers I am willing to put my name forward. Thanks for mod it is brill

[Duke John]

Dirk
No, an unmodded version means an unmodded version. I don't know that the makers of the Reconquisita mod said but its files do change the installation. There is a big difference between not affecting the existing games or not affecting the any of the files at all.

However if you are even just a tiny bit familiar with Notepad you can install the Wars of the Roses mod in the MTW installation with the Recon mod. Do the following:

Installing the Wars of the Roses mod together with other mods
This works with most other mods as long, there are some exceptions of which the easiest to recognize is that the other mod shouldn't have CUSTOM BIF folders in Textures\Men

Step 1: Temporary installation
Install the Wars of the Roses mod into a temporary directory.

Step 2: Combining modfiles
Now open the following file in both the WotR and MTW installation directories/folders:Textures/Men/DEADPAGE COORDS.TXT[/list]In the WotR version copy all WOTRUnitName entries together with the 4 coordinates lines below each entry and paste it into the MTW version. Save the MTW file.

Now open the following files in both the Wars of the Roses and MTW installtion directories/folders:Loc\Eng\Names.TXT
Loc\Eng\Descriptions.TXT[/list]In the WotR versions copy everything that stands between the *** WotR comments *** and paste it into the corresponding MTW versions. Save the MTW files.

Step 3: Installing the WotR mod
Now delete all the mentioned files in the temporary WOTR folder, NOT the MTW installion.
Then copy the content of the WotR folder into the MTW folder.

Step 4: Play the game
Everything should work now. If it doesn't work then there is a change that the other mod is completely incompatible with other mods. Note that you shouldn't try this with the HTW, NTW and METW mods.

Further explanation
One of the advantages of VI is that you almost completely seperate all mods. The only thing that needs to be edited are the deadpage coords and 2 translation files. In all of the WotR text files you will see extra comments to make the content more clear and to see where WotR entries begin and end. This makes it more clear for me and people who want to mod the WotR add-on. It seems that it was worth the time.

Boudicea
Thanks
About the campmap it was only a first version. Although I must say that I use the VI campmap as a base but I simply edited out some of the provinces (Scandinavia, Scotland and Ireland).
About the florin level. CBR's opinions and thoughts about gamebalance convinced me that the game plays better and more realistic with no upgrades. If you play with 90K you play with robots. I'm just as glad if you have fun playing that, but if you want to show me playtest results then I would much rather see unupgraded games.

Cheers, Duke John

[Boudicea]

No problem Duke John will do

[KyodaiSteeleye]

I agree - the game at 10000 Fl is much more interesting due to the continuous changing tides of morale through the battle lines - which is something that is lost in MP at the moment, as everyone plays with Morale 8 troops.

BTW - i have both reconquista and WoTR installed, and there doesn't seem to be any problems.

Ps: dukejohn, does the Beta version differ from the earlier one (eg: should i download it again?)

[Duke John]

This beta has less graphical glitches, more balanced stats, a few faction shields/flags and perhaps some other small adjustments. Nothing groundbreaking but it doesn't hurt to download it.

[Julius Caesar]

I enjoy this mod very much its very fun to play and nice work on the unitgraphics http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Looking good dukejohn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Had some custom battles with the new stats - the reduced shire longbows seems to work better. I haven't tried retesting single unit combats yet. Also new stats and costs for things like the pikes is interesting - jury still out though, as custom battles are let down by the paltzy AI. Therefore i need some MP players to test it with

Therefore I'll be on tonight (saturday) from 9.00 GMT. If anyone wants to join me, please come along and we can test it under proper battlefield conditions

I reckon a couple of cavalry units will work well, as long as they're not too powerful (your 'prickers' and some mounted squires sounds good). At the moment, battles are quite static and the fact that you can't chase routers very adequately means there's lots of rallying and secondary combats all over the place (which can be pretty fun).

Like the unit shields that you've done and the new unit icons too - very sweet

[Duke John]

I will be on this evening, so perhaps I'll see you (and others?) later.

Cheers, Duke John

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi Duke,

You say above that you haven't included the mnted units in the beta, but i have both prickers and mtd mAA available (although the models aren't finished i don't think) - am i supposed to?

[Duke John]

Yes, more like a screw-up from me then intentional. I'm not really happy with them as they are much too efficient at breaking the missile war.

I've uploaded a tweaked unitstat file which slows down the cavarly more so that they are more vulnerable to missiles. They should only be used to flank and pursue routers not too agressive as they were capable of doing before.

Downloads
Stats version 0.1.1 (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/stats0.1.1.zip)

Stats version 0.1 (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/stats0.1.1.zip)

Just overwrite, and if you get version conflicts then overwrite the other version. I will play tonight with version 0.1.1.

Edit: KyodaiSteele, please come back to the foyer. When I use my Duke_John_Wotr account I am using GameSpy and then I am at my desktop also doing other stuff. So when I do not immediately reply, please wait a minute or 8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[Boudicea]

Played a few custom and online battles now and it has played really well. The units are stunning. Is there any music available to this period as it would add something extra? Great mod really enjoy this one.

[RabidMonkey]

Hi Duke John
Im sure youve heard this before but I just downloaded your mod and the graphics are amazing. So shiny they actualy look like knights now all decked out in armour.
I was wondering if the Osprey books are the best source for this period, they seem very prolific I'm very interested in the hundred years war period so are there any good books or web sites you use?
I have a book called 'Armies of the middle ages, volume 1 by Ian Heath' which has got me interested in this period.

[Duke John]

100+ downloads in a single week is a nice achievement, so I will move on to my next project http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

ShadesWolf and I will merge our mods into the Two Crowns mod, which will feature the end of the HYW, the Burgundian Wars, the Swiss, Scots and the Wars of the Roses. The mod will get an entire new campaign map and new unitgraphics for all

Experience M:TW as it was meant to be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif See you all in the Two Crowns thread (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=18854)

Thanks for all the feedback so far
Duke John

This thread has been unstickied as development continues elsewhere.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

but you are going to release a final version, yes? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

Like I said before, it's a real pleasure to play. Far too good to be missed by the community.

[Nigel]

Will there be a final version, Duke John ?

Or is this the one and you are now busy with other things ?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Duke John]

I am working now with ShadesWolf on the Two Crowns mod. It will have a campaign on a larger scale and hopefully with some tricks we can simulate the occuring of the Wars of the Roses.

We probably also small additional MP periods so that you can still play the Wars of the Roses/Burgundian Wars/HYW seperately. I think at the end, the Wars of the Roses expansion will be fully included with the Two Crowns mod. But I want to finish the TC mod as quickly as possible so that mod as a whole gets my attention and not just the WotR period.

Cheers, Duke John

[Nigel]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif errr, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

so the Wars of the Roses Mod, which you have been working on in the past and which is now in beta is going to be a part of the Two Crowns mod, which you have now started working on as a (even) bigger project ?


And the Wars of the Roses mod will remain in beta until the Two Crowns is finished, and will then be incorporated into that bigger mod ??


And Nigel has got that right
or he is completely confused now ???

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ShadesWolf]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif Nigel you have it right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Let me explaing...

War of the roses covers 1453 to 1485 (ish) and takes place in england. It came about after the english defeat in the Hundred years war.

At the same time in mainland europe, Burgundy was at its high point, it was involved in conflicts with france, HRE and the Swiss. Burgundy was also involved in the Hundred years war.

Therefore if we expand the War of the roses mod to include the end of the HYW and add the Burgundian conflicts you have a far larger campaign and times scale.....

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Shades, are you still having Brittany as a faction? If so are you dividing the province into two or just leaving it?

[ShadesWolf]

Brittany will no longer be a faction, but I am planning to make the province either two or three.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Shame that in the meantime we don't have a MP WoTR game to get MP players attention though.... (hint}....

[ShadesWolf]

But cant the version already released by used ?

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Well YES, but it would be easier to market to MP players if all the models were completed and faction banners done etc - may also help you both design the units and gameplay for the other two conflicts if lots of players are playing and giving feedback in the meantime...

From my own selfish point of view its a shame to have a oh-so-nearly-completed mod hanging around when the finished, polished version would be an even greater joy to play..

[Duke John]

True. I have posted at the NET that I had released the WotR beta. Compared to the Org the reaction was there minimal. It seems that MP players are very conservative and don't want to change their playing style even it's for the better.

The Reconquisita mod is regularly hosted, but that mod has the support of a large clan. Since I don't want to kiss up just to get my mod going I have released the idea of the WotR becoming an extra period for MP. I mean the mod doesn't change one thing it only adds and still there is little response from the MP community.

My main interest lies with playing some MP historical battles. I think if enough enthusiastics then we can setup times where we come together instead of the mod becoming a standard and expecting people to join at any given time.

What is in your eyes needed for the mod to become finished enough (so that you shut up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif)?

Cheers, Duke John

[Emp. Conralius]

Mounted units (though, I know they are to come)

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Cheers DukeJohn, I know you love me really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Yes - to complete the mod in my eyes you would finish the models for the two mounted units, finish the shields for the remaining factions, and change a couple of the unit's stats to correct the imbalances we have identified.

Then i might actually be content and leave you alone for a bit...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

... then it will be 'all good' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Duke John]

The Cavalry BIFs are a bit of a problem since they need to fit on the horses. I could do some using a dummy horsy-blob but because of the animation it will look slightly out of place.
Or, and this will take more time, I can make a horse model and that has the advantage of perfectly fitting animations. I could then also have some fun with how the horses are equipped. The problem of the original barded horses is that the look of the armour is not the same as the armour of the riders.
I will tinker about this.

Cheers, Duke John

edit: but I appreciate your request http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

DJ,

Are you familiar with this site:
http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm


very good visual source

[ShadesWolf]

KyodaiSteeleye could you give me a link to those histor battle you once created many moon ago, So I can have a look into adding them as battles for the new 2crowns mod.

Also do you have any good info/ sites on The battle of Shrewsbury, as this will be our starting period for the new mod 1403.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Shades please to Homildon hill(1402) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif That would be great hang on info coming for Shrewsbury http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Hi Shades - I think it was Jonesy, who used to be in our clan, who did some historical battles like Northampton and Flodden - i'll need to get on my home computer to get the address - will post it later.

I've just purchased quite a good English Heritage book on British registered battle sites that includes Shrewsbury, and also includes nearly all of the WoTR battles (except for the St Albans battles). I also have another book at home which is older - i'll fish it out and see if its any good.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

After the capture of several important Scottish nobles at Homildon hill, the percy family were outraged as King Henry IV demanded the prisoners be turned over to him, which annoyed the percies beyond all endurance. They fought the battle and should therefore reap the benefits of a Scottish defeat.
They disobeyed his command and began to plot a coup d'etat with Welsh patriot, Owen Glendower.

Harry Hotspur marched south to link with Glendower. He had around 4,000 men but soon heard word that the King was marching north with a force of some 5,000, not to attack him but lend him troops for an expected Scottish invasion

Hotspur dispatched his Uncle, Thomas Percy with demands of a reformation in the realm and having no real wish to wage war on one of his most powerful barons, the king agreed.
Yet Thomas Percy returned to camp and said that the king refused the conditions He was still angry about the loss in ransom and this obviously sent him over the edge.

Hotspur's vanguard was led by Archie Douglas, a former enemy who was captured at Homildon hill the previous year.

The rebel army had the veteran cheshire bowmen and although smaller in number, got the better in the murderous exchange of arrow fire and rained death on the royal army.

When the main armies clashed, Hotspur with thirty mounted knights rushed for the kings standard, with Hotspur personally killing the Earl of Stafford and Thomas Blount , the king's standard bearer.

Even after prince Henry had an arrow pierced his cheek, he led an attack which swept round the rear of the rebel army striking it in the rear.

After a time a shout came saying Hotspur was dead and with no reply forth coming the rebels began to collapse. Harry was indeed dead with an arrow in the face.

The battle was a close run thing. Even after Hotspurs death the battle raged and even when night came, neither side knew who was the victor

[Duke John]

That is some bloody interesting stuff Thanks for sharing it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
With all these historical battles I can't wait to play them online with you guys.

Now I'm off to making some more models http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Ok - Jonesy's battle site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/kyodaijonesy/main.html

He's done Northallerton, Shrewsbury and Flodden.

The books I have are:

British Battles by Ken and Denise Guest - English Heritage -Harper Collins 1996 ISBN 0 00 470969 1

and

Discovering Battlefields in England by John Kinross - Shire Publications Ltd 1979 ISBN 0 85263 447 1

The first is the more glossy and bigger book - some nice photos of reinacters in proper gear. You may have trouble getting the latter if it hasn't been reprinted You can order the former for a tenner from the English Heritage website: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/default.asp

hope this helps

[KyodaiSteeleye]

P.S - if you want some info on the battles not covered in the English Heritage book - i can get you some from the older book - eg: for St Albans, Wakefield, Mortimers Cross, St Albans II and Edgecote.

Two good sites for WoTR with some battle descriptions are:

http://www.warsoftheroses.com/index.htm

and

http://freespace.virgin.net/sheldon.stevens/background.html

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Duke John]

Topic moved. Can be used as reference for the Two Crowns modification.

Cheers, Duke John

[Teutonic Knight]

THIS IS FROM HARALD THE RUTHELESS IN THE ENTRANCE HALL:


Duke John

I have downloaded the beta version and tried the battles. The unit graphics are absolutely awsome Unlike certain units in MTW they actually look like what they're supposed to be and are not guys with headbands and football t-shirts

The balance strikes me as very even. Cavalry outright sucks. Most factions have the same units so the battles become like a chess game with longbows, billmen and pikes. All in all this seems a very close historical representation of the civil war.

I would have liked to see a campaign map but as I understand this is being tied in with Two Crowns but I still hope for the best in developing this unique mod.

-Harald

[Duke John]

Thank you Harald the Ruthless (and TK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif ),

Well, the Wars of the Roses will get his own campaign. In fact the campaign map has already been finished and is working 100% http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif
It's only got the English and Welsh provinces (42 of them) as only these regions saw combat.

I will include the following factions (baronial families) to go with the campaign:
House of Lancaster
House of York
Beaufort
Stanley
Stafford
Nevilles
Woodvilles
Percy
Courtenay
Mowbray
de la Pole
Talbot

Cheers, Duke John

[KyodaiSteeleye]

So, Duke John - are you going to release a full RotR Mod?

[Duke John]

Not for M:TW. At one point I was making the Towton historical battle, made a pretty nice map with a flowing river cornering the battlefield but when I tried to code the AI it just wouldn't listen. There is a document that tells you that the AI can be given certain tasks but it would just rearrange its ranks and move to some silly point before attacking me. At that point I gave up M:TW.

But I will try to mod WotR into R:TW.

[Kali]

~D I guess, I understand your frustration with M:TW. But still I would have loved to have a go with your campaign map. Always fancied fighting a detailed WofTR campaign. RTW's probably beyond my PIII's specs. So it could be a while until I get to play the next version of WoTR. Still I heard there's no ballistics models for gunpowder weaponry in RTW.....Maybe its possible to mod them in or use sling and catapult shot with modded stats.
~:rolleyes:

[Dirk]

Duke John,

Just a question: After I've downloaded and installed WOTR I've noticed that the Medieval part (early, high and late) play without any hitch but during and after a battle there are no corpses littering the battle field. They just die....and fade. The WOTR part does not have this problem.
This problem occured after installing WOTR.
Just for the record: HTW also does not have this particular problem.
I know that this phenomenon has been mentioned before but for one reason or another I can't locate those threads.

Dirk

Additional question: Is there a way for the combined MTW+WTR game to use the same SaveMaps file as the Hellenic game ? Everytime I've created my own map in one game I have to copy it to the other so I can use it in both.

[dclare4]

Yeah, tried making a 'Naseby-type' battle with pike and shot in MTW with three 'nations' (command wings) per side, and the stupid AI commanding my flanks moved out of their perfect defensive positions (and left their cannon vulnerable to be overrun easily by the Royalist horse) and retreated up this hill (leaving me unsupported) so in the end we were all routed/massacred. I think the game thinks TOO well at times, looking for the most obvious defensive/offensive opportunities.

Regards DJ,
Clare

[Duke John]

I'm beginning to doubt that R:TW will be shipped with all the modding tools that are needed to mod WotR into that engine. So in the meantime are any fans of these wars interested in playing some historical battles?

These battles are not about playing the game but about replaying history with some freedom for alternate ending. So I'm not looking for battles with tactics based on how the game works but for realistic battles. This may result in more boring games as you shouldn't use some skirmishing and flanking tactics, but I think it will be fun enough.
Army compositions will be mostly set before the game happens and are known to both sides. I will provide a map plus historical background (commanders, used tactics, etc) and each team can and should discuss their tactics beforehand.

The first battle will be Towton. I already have a pretty nice battlemap for it plus there were some interesting events in the battle: an ambush and part of the Yorkist army arriving at a later time. It will be a press for the Yorkists to defend themselves against the Lancastrians before their ally arrives.

You don't need to a MP expert. If you are a civil, mature, "historian" who loves to replay a WotR battle and is able to move his army in adequate manner then I am happy to include. It will be 3vs3 battles so I am looking for at least 5 more players (if more then we can play muliple battles). Nigel, declare4, KyodaiSteeleye, BKB, ShadesWolf are you interested?

More details will follow later on.
DJ

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I have never played multiplayer before but it sounds a good laugh, i'm up for it ~D

[Duke John]

No problem, although it's good to test beforehand just to make sure that your computer is able to handle it. MP is just like SP but with more intelligent allies, although that is sometimes questionable :tongue:

But great BKB, looking forward to it! Let's hope that we can actually arrange a time.

To all: it's best if you are an European since then it will be easier to set a time to play.

[Duke John]

I've posted info about the Towton historical battle in the Jousting field: link. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=589719#post589719)

If you are interested you can sign up there :yes:

[Duke John]

Moving on...


http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/rtw/wotr_squire.jpg

[metatron]

Someone should warn the fellow on the left...

[Nigel]

I found my VI CD broken in my CDROM player, so I don't think I'm able to play the game. If I can find a cheap copy somewhere I will buy it, but when...

Does this mean you did find a new copy of VI ?
I would hate to see the WotR mod die because of this.

And if the battle re-enactment is still taking place, I would still be interested.

[Duke John]

No, I still don't have a new copy of VI and I do not think I will ever buy one. Although I was really looking forward to the reenactment... perhaps in the future.

[JR-]

no campaign? :(

[Duke John]

No campaign for M:TW, but who knows what will come for R:TW.

But CBR helped me out and I can now play M:TW again (god I'm rusty). So all the persons who are interested in the Towton reenactment could react then we can play it soon. Although I must say that the balance isn't that well, so it is about fun and not about winning.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I might be up for that DJ should be a giggle ~D

[Duke John]

Nigel, do you have R:TW? If so have a bit more patience please...


http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/rtw/wotr.jpg

[Nigel]

Yes, I do have RTW.
And I am very much looking forward to what you are doing with it ~:)

But dont worry. Patience is my middle name ~;)

[KyodaiSteeleye]

i'm still up for Towton.

[CYGNUS]

i just found out about this mod today.

where can I download it? the old link does not work ~:)

[CYGNUS]

anybody have it? :help:

[CYGNUS]

I guess that's a no

:tired:

[metatron]

I don't. Sorry.

Have you tried PM'ing Duke John?

[Duke John]

I've got it lying around somewhere. I'll look it up and try uploading it.

[CYGNUS]

~:)

just let me know where to get it

thanks

[CYGNUS]

today is the 534th anniversary of the Battle of Tewkesbury, May 4, 1471.

how bout getting that mod so i can kick some yorkist arse ~:)

[CYGNUS]

:sick:

[Duke John]

Sorry for the late upload. It probaby gets moved soon to 3D downloads, but here are the current links:
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/wotr_beta.part1.rar
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/wotr_beta.part2.rar
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/wotr_beta.part3.rar
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/wotr_beta.part4.rar

They are in RAR format which I believe you can freely on the internet. The mod was abandoned in beta format and only custom battles are playable. It's been a year or so since I last looked at it, so do not expect much support from me :stwshame: Have fun!

[CYGNUS]

tHANKS.

Question---Do I need all 4 parts?

When I extract all 4 of them, it seems the same files are in each part.

There are seval wotr_beta_v01.zip files in each part.

I think all I need is just one wotr_beta_v01.zip and one wotr_beta_v02.zip

can you confirm this?

~:)

[CYGNUS]

I got it to work.

Very nice infantry! Why abandon this MOD? Because RTW is out?

[Duke John]

Glad you like it :grin: I abandoned indeed because of R:TW. Well a bit premature perhaps, but making an unit took an entire week and I guessed (rightly) that with a true 3D-engine it was no longer the case. I saw in R:TW lots of opportunities and wanted it to take of advantage, time to move on, you know.

Now I do have 3 or 4 partly finished R:TW WotR models sitting on HD and perhaps there will come a time that I will release them. But at the moment I am already busy with Sengoku Jidai. If there were more WotR fanatics around who would also play MP battles then I might have decided otherwise, but since the WotR release didn't spark much attention in the Medieval crowd then I doubt that it will in a Rome crowd.

Have fun and crush those Lancastrian bastards! :medievalcheers:

[CYGNUS]

Please keep me posted on your WOTR models for RTW since I am a fanatic. I have the Osprey books you have on the WOTR plus a few other books on the Hundred Years War and the Norman Invasion. Turner is a great artist.

There must be a WOTR or medieval MOD for RTW. Your WOTR MOD came out just before RTW so that explains the drop in interest. It was not the MOD but the new improved game.

You don't have any custom battles/historical battles made for Towton, Twekesbury, or Bosworth do you? If you do I would like them.

Anyway, thanks for the MOD. Too bad I was a year late. I will continue to monitor this site to see if any medieval mods come out.

You may also want to monitor the progess of this game too: http://int.games.1c.ru/13_century/

[beauchamp21]

okay, i downloaded all of the four mod things posted above. How do i get them to work, im computerly-retarded in a sense. Also, do i havta download the demo at the beggining of the forum cause i cant find it anywhere.

Thanx 4 helpin whoever

[tutankamon]

Lovely mod ~D any chance you mite make it assemble all of the downloads in an installer instead of having them scattered in pieces

[CYGNUS]

beauchamp21

You must have a Rar unzipper utility.

You only need one of the following: Part 1, Part 2 , or Part 3. They are the same from what I can tell. Pick one.

If you look at the folders within the parts (pick one), they match the folders in the MTW game folder.

For me to get it to work, I installed these folders over the existing folders in the MTW game directory.

Then I installed part 4 which appears to be a newer text file.

I was messing with this last night, and it appears the original game can still be played. You can only do custom battles with the WOTR files. Read the "readme" text file in the parts folder.

[CYGNUS]

One other thing, if you give each side more than 5000 florins or add too many units, the quality of the mods get worse/distorted. See the readme file where it talks about balance. I don't know why it does this.

[tutankamon]

Do you have any screens? I would love to se some ~D

[beauchamp21]

Yea a few pics would be awsome, especially of the units and towns. Are u guys going to use the English map from Viking TW?

[Duke John]

The beta is all you ever gonna get from me. There will be no campaign map. However I can tell you that a Wars of the Roses mod for R:TW has been in the making since R:TW arrived on the shelf. But I shall upload a few screens.

[beauchamp21]

Thanks man :bow:

[King Maker]

The link on page one does not work sadly, can anyone give me a link to another download site? :help:

[Stazi]

The same question as above. Download link, email, whatever. Please?
--- EDIT ----
I've found it as a part of this archive (http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/68512/mtw_tools_resources-zip).

[Duke John]

Stazi, so I can disregard that PM of you, right?

Cheers,
DJ