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alogic
07-04-2004, 17:18
As Alexander the Great lay on his death bed, his generals and close friends gathered around him... soon the inevitable question had to be asked... who would be alexander's successor, to whom his kingdom would be passed? #Alexander responded simply.. To the strongest

The Diadochi (Successors) will be a new mod featuring a host of new units that i am currently creating in 3d.. it will also feature a brand new campmap covering all of alexanders empire as well as perimeter territories..will #feature unique style of game play loosely based on dbm gaming rules (giving battles a more chess like feel). There will be an immense amount of new units including several different types of elephants.. scythe chariots.. immitation legionaires... various forms of pike phalanxes.. etc..
Time period will run from alexander's death until roman expansion.Factions listed at bottom of this post.

in game screenies & models, will continue to update

Campmap
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17648

1.Pantodapoi
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14872

2.Thracian Mercenaries
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14873

3.Diadoch (Pk) Phalanx
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14874

4.Immitation Legionaire
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14926

5.Cretan Archer
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=15036

6.Machimoi
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17049

7.Galatian Heavy Warband
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17223

8.Generic Archer Type
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17274

9.Generic foot (javelin)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17276

10.Libyan Style Spearman
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17280

11.Heavy Cavalry Type A
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17282

12.Argyraspid (Silver Shield) Pike
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17331

13.Thracian Auxillary
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17334

14.Galatian Fanatic
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17377

15.Hypaspist
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17412

16.Thracian Noble
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17415

17.Generic Light Cavalry
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17465

18.Hellenic Pike Phalanx
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17472

19.Eastern Archer
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17473

20.Galatian Light Infantry
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17476

21.Euzonoi
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17490

22.Greek Light Cavalry
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17518

23.Hellenic Pike II
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17773
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=115515&poll_id=0&category_id=19&warned=y
select view anyway
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18049(new)
in game screenie

24.Klerouchoi Lt Cavalry
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=115510&poll_id=0&warned=y

25.Generic Foot III
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=115512

26.Xystophoroi (new)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18088


Major Factions:The Diadochi
1. Cassander-Greece
2. Lysimachos-Thrace
3. Antigonid-Asia Minor
4. Ptolemy-Aegypt
5. Seleucid-Babylon..eastern Satrapies

Minor Factions
6. Bactria
7. Parthia
8. Galatians
9. Epirus (Pyrrhus)
10.Greek States
11.Pergamene

Non playable or possible additions
12.Illyrians
13.Jewish state
14.Pontic
15.India
16.Libya
17.Medianite
18.Armenian
19.Kyrenaican
20.Bosphorus

Julius Caesar
07-05-2004, 00:34
Sounds Good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

flip
07-05-2004, 11:32
image dump (http://www.image-dump.com/)

I send you a email alogic

alogic
07-08-2004, 08:51
the game will be roughly based on dbm rules... it will be good to read the following article in order to understand the mechanics of the game, as well as, future posts.

begin reading from troop types down
http://www.richardbodleyscott.btinternet.co.uk/beginner.htm

alogic
07-08-2004, 09:43
I will now begin giving an overview of the units that will appear ingame... i will update as needed

1.PIKE(Pk)
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1361_face.jpg
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14874

All successor armies are built around this unit...

Positive:
a. frontally in unbroken terrain they are undefeatable.
b. 6 ranks of support
c. high bonus vs. cavalry
d. large formations (180)

Negative:
a. slow movement and turnspeed (easily outflanked)
b. disadvantaged in rough terrain
c. expensive (high production & supportcost)
d. long production time (except levies)
e. vunerable to missle attack (due to smaller sheild and rear ranks being unarmored leading to general decline in overall armor value).

Unit Divisions
1.Levy
2.Regulars
3.Veterans
4.Agema

Unit Sub divisions

1.Levy
a.Levies
b.Pantodapoi (Antigonid & Seleucid)
c.Machimoi (Ptolemy)
d.Iphiktatean hoplites (Cassander)

2&3.Regulars & Veterans
a.successor style phalanx
b.hellenic style phalanx (Greek,Epirus,Pontus)
c.Bactrian style phalanx

4.Agema
a.Regular
b.Argyraspids (silver shields)
c.Chaeonian guards (pyrrhus)
d.Sinopean Guard (Pontus)

alogic
07-08-2004, 10:39
Spear (Sp)
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1344_face.jpg

The spear unit is used by the diadochi to compliment their pike phalanx.. spear armed units have better manueverability and are therefore a wise choice to guard the flanks of your pike units (especially from enemy cavalry).. The Hypaspists are the elite of this class..

1.Greek Hoplites
2.Hypaspists
3.Rule Infantry Spears (jewish)
4.Greek Mercenaries

Positive
1.good manueverabilty
2.relatively cheap to produce (compared to pikes)
3.cheaper support cost
4.bonus vs cavalry
5.3 rows of support
6.Large shield gives better protection from missles

Negative
1.cannot face a full strength pike phalanx head on
2.penalty vs warbands
3.unable to fight effectively in rough terrain

alogic
07-08-2004, 19:36
Warbands (WB)

Galatian Warband (reference)
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1543_face.jpg
Galatian Warband (model)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17223

Warbands generated by both the galatians and illyrians.. the diadochi can often employ them as mercenaries. Warbands are good overall units that have some special bonuses attatched.while they cannot stand up to a full strength blade or pike unit in good terrain.. they are more than a match for these same units in the rough.. they are also very useful for ambushes.. can also help open up enemy flanks by driving off spear armed units.. just watch out for enemy cavalry

1.Galatian Warband (heavy)
2.Galatian Warband (light)
3.Galatian Mercenaries
4.Illyrian Warband

Positive
1.bonus vs spear units
2.fight well in rough terrain
3.strike fear in many units
4.good overall manueverability
5.special concealment bonus
6.very cheap to produce and support
7.lg shield offers good protection from missles

Negative
1.heavy and medium cavalry are a major threat
2.cannot stand up to blades in good going
3.cannot stand up to frontal pike in good going
4.may charge without orders
5.hard to keep under control

alogic
07-08-2004, 20:35
Blades (Bd)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=14901
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=14926

Blades represent the Diadochi attempt to emulate the fierce roman legions that they encountered in the later ages.. they are therefore labeled as immitation legions.. They are excellent all around troops combining the best attributes of the other foot troops: they can skirmish with heavy javelins, they have good manueverability, large shields, good armor, can fight well in both good and bad terrain (though they do suffer a small penalty in the latter), they also get a small bonus vs cavalry, they are the only unit that can stand up to a frontal full strength pike charge (though they are not guaranteed to win, they do stand a chance).. overall they are the most versatile and sought after units in the game..

1.immitation legionaire (Ptolemy,Seleucid,Galatian,Pontus)
2.Jewish Rule Infantry (Blade);no skirmishing ability

Positive:
1.very versatile
2.able to skirmish
3.good manueverability
4.good armor protection and lg shield
5.2 rows of support
6.small bonus vs cavalry
7.good in all terrains

Negative
1.very expensive
2.take several turns to produce
3.lots of building requirements necessary to produce
4.small rough terrain penalty
5.need to use caution when facing elephants or scythe chariots

alogic
07-12-2004, 08:51
Auxillaries (Ax)

1.Euzonoi (all Diadochi & Hellenic Factions)
2.Thracians (Lysimachus & Thrace)
3.Thracian Mercenaries (all Diadochi & Hellenic Factions)
4.Mountain Indian Spearmen (Bactria & India)
5.(more to come)

These guys are great for holding rough terrain, driving off pesky skirmishers, and running down heavy infantry that are fleeing the field. Most also have the ability to skirmish as well, typically with javelins. The Thracians are the best of this category.

Positive
a.high mobility (can match speed of Psiloi)
b.typically carry large shield (missle protection)
c.bonus when fighting in rough terrain
d.bonus when fighting psiloi
e.very inexpensive to produce and support

Negative
a. very vunerable if caught in open, flat terrain
b. very light armor protection
c. have to watch out for warbands
d. need to attack flank or rear to be effective (melee)

alogic
07-12-2004, 08:53
Psiloi (Ps)

Slingers, archers, and javelinmen make up this category. These guys are all capable of ranged attacks, but need to keep away from close combat.

1.Irregulars
2.Persian Archers
3.Egyptian Archers
4.Macedonian Archers
5.Rhodian Slingers
6.Syrian Slingers
7.Cilician Javelinmen
8.Jewish Guerilla Skirmishers

Positive
1.good mobility, can outrun most infantry types
2.various forms of ranged attacks
3.typically very cheap to produce and maintain

Negative
1.poor hand to hand combat skills
2.little, if any, armor protection
3.typically, don't carry shields
4.must avoid cavalry and auxillary
5.typically low moral

alogic
07-12-2004, 08:54
Bowmen (Bw)

The label here is quite misleading as most archers are covered under Psiloi... For the purpose of this mod this category will be reserved for only bow armed units with special abilities that separate them from being classed as mere psiloi... typically this means they are able to fight in hand to hand combat or have an exceptional ranged attack At this moment there are only 2 units fitting this title

Cretan Archers: carry small sheild and sword, can melee with attack factors ranging around that of a moderate level auxillary, very good ranged attack, some defense from missles do to shield.

Indian Archers: carry longbow and two handed sword, exceptional range achieved with their bows (best in game), have vicious attack combat factor but no armor whatsoever.

alogic
07-12-2004, 08:56
Hordes (Hd)

These are units not really suited for real combat, but are better served for holding down conquered provinces while your main army marches off elseware... This is a means of cutting cost as Diadoch armies are very expensive to maintain.. Keeping a large army in a conquered province just to maintain loyalty and prevent an uprising can be very expensive.. especially if you need that army elseware.

1.Border Guards
2.Civilian Militias
3.Babylonian levies
4.General Levies

Positive:
1.Dirt cheap to produce and maintain
2.When used in mass can keep a province loyalty high

Negative:
1.Very poor combat effectiveness
2.Very poor morale
3.Not useful in provinces that are adjacent to the enemy.

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:00
Heavy Cavalry (HC):

The glory boys of the Diadoch arsenal.. Heavy cavalry form the primary shock force of the mounted core. With the exception of pikes, spears, and elephants.. they have little to fear on the battlefield. They are almost unstopable if they are able to turn the enemies' flank.. No successor army is complete without them.

They will basically come in three types
1.Regulars
2.Companion styled (lightened slightly for better speed)
3.Cataphracts (armored... barding)

examples:
1. Mounted Agema
2. Xystophoroi
3. Companions
4. Lancers
5. Klerouchoi
6. Rule Cavalry
7. Greek Bodyguards
8. Bosphoran Nobles
9. Various Cataphracts
10.Pergamene Lancers
11.Iranian Lancers

Positive:
1.Very well armed and armored
2.Heavy attack and charge ratings
3.Very good morale
4.Cataphracts have excellent protection from missles
5.Can crush most troop types

Negative:
1.Cannot stand up to Spear(Sp) or Pike(Pk) frontally
2.Small penalty when facing Blades(Bd)
3.Slower than other cavalry types
4.Extremely expensive to equip and maintain
5.Penalty when fighting in rough or difficult terrain

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:01
Cavalry (Cv):
With better speed and less cost than Heavy Cavalry (HC) and more punch than Light Horses (LH) these guys create a happy median between the other two classes.

ex:
1.Satrapal Heavy Cavalry
2.Thracian Nobles
3.Greek Mercenary Cavalry
4.Galatian Cavalry
5.Saka Nobles
6.Pontic Heavy Cavalry
7.Epirote Cavalry

Positive:
1.Cheaper than Heavy Cavalry
2.Faster than most Heavy Cav
3.Good Attack and Defense modifiers
4.Decent morale

Negative:
1.Cannot catch Light Horse (LH)
2.Cannot stand up to Heavy Cavalry(HC)
3.Penalty vs Pikes(Pk), Spears(Sp), and Blades(Bd)

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:01
Light Horse (LH)

Covers a wide variety of Light Cavalry mostly consisting of ranged (archers & javelinmen) units with little or no close combat value.. one trait that all Light Horse will share is speed... fastest units in the game.

ex.
1.Median Lonchophoroi
2.Satrapal Light Cavalry
3.Bactrian Horse archers
4.Parthian Horse archers
5.Tarantines
6.Thracian Light Horse
7.Ambrakiots
8.Arachosians
9.Scythians

Positive:
1.Cheapest cavalry to produce and maintain
2.Fastest unit on the battlefield
3.Often can be used to draw enemy out of formation

Negative:
1.Little to no armor
2.Poor melee rating

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:02
Scythe Chariots (ScH):

Nothing instills fear on the battlefield more than these guys.. sure to make your enemies wet their pants..er..uhm..I mean..skirts... at first sight of them.
Seriously though the chariot by this time was really outdated and only used by a few of the factions (Seleucids, Pontics, Galatians).. However they did sometimes prove useful as I will relate to you in the following story.

The Roman army, when facing Mithridates' Pontic army, broke into laughter and mock applause at the sight of the Pontic Scythe chariots.. However, at the battle of Ennium their laughter was silenced by Pharnaces (Mithridates' son). When the battle began, Pharnaces sent out a huge contingent of skirmishers to screen his actual intent (ala Napoleon Bonaparte). As the Pontic forces unleashed their missles into the roman ranks.. the romans followed their text book procedure and drew up into 'testudo' formations. The romans, unable to see the scythe chariots lining up behind the dense clouds of skirmishers, had inadvertantly opened up gaps in their lines... gaps large enough to drive a uh..idunno..a..SCYTHE CHARIOT through.. Ibet you can guess what happened next... needless to say that the romans suffered one of their most humiliating defeats..38,000 dead 8,000 taken prisoner compared to Pontic losses of around 8000 total.

In game the Scythe Chariot will be a frightening machine.. literally as all units will have a fear penalty when facing them.. They will be built to cause as much mayhem as possible in as short a time as possible.. what I mean by this is that they will have extraordinary Charge and Attack modifiers, but an abysmal defensive rating.. So use them wisely.........

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:03
Elephants (EL)

Do you like Elephants?... well then.. your gonna love Diadochi.. this particular time period featured some of the largest elephant battles in history... this is also the time when the romans were first introduced to the "Lucanian Oxen" as they refered to Pyrrhus' elephants.

Elephants come in 3 main divisions
1.Regulars
2.Towered
3.Cataphracts (Armored)

1.Great for use against Cavalry, Warbands, Auxillary, and Blades
2.Regulars need to watch out for psiloi and bowmen
3.All need to stay away from Pikes and to a lesser degree Spears

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:04
Camels (Cm)

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:25
Campaign Map:

i have begun working on a campmap for this mod.. it is still very much in its infancy and will probably undergo many changes... but just for the moment.. here it is

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=15070

this is just a very small piece of the map.. it extends all the way to india.. covers all areas belonging to factions listed in first post..

alogic
07-12-2004, 09:43
i would like to get some feedback.. i seem to be getting lots of views but no replies.. also not many people seem to be viewing my screen shots.. this seems kinda weird since these represent brand new unit graphics... at any rate i will continue to develope the mod even if i'm the only one who cares...

ParthianWarrior
07-12-2004, 10:23
Looking Good :D

wilpuri
07-12-2004, 11:25
This is looking very good, I'm sure as more people find out about this mod and see your results, you will get a lot more feed back. Keep up the excellent work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

ShadesPanther
07-12-2004, 23:56
Looks good. I always wondered when someone would make a mod based on the successors http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

alogic
07-14-2004, 17:26
heres a new look at my campmap... again this is still in its infancy... this is just to give an idea of the extent of the regions involved...

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=15188

dimitrios the samian
07-24-2004, 07:00
Hello Alogic ,
Great period , your mod will most definately be on my playlist .
You mention ... dbm style and chess like gameplay .
Do you mean battles will be a stop start affair ? FRAGMENTED or can they be fought without the need to pause ?
cheers
Dimitrios...

PseRamesses
07-24-2004, 10:29
Alogic,
Brilliant mod-idea, def on my playlist in the future. I actually though the HTW crew would pick up this one after HTW instead of going back in time. I wish you the best of luck. BTW, with RTW released in september are you planning on using the Medieval- or Rome-platform?

alogic
07-26-2004, 04:53
In response to:
You mention .......dbm style and chess like gameplay. Do you mean battles will be a stop start affair? or can they be fought without the need to pause ?

Not at all.. the game will play the same as you are used to... what i mean by chesslike and dbm is that more thought will be required in game; both stategically and tactically... here are 3 examples of what i mean:..


1. There will be a slightly exaggerated set of combat modifiers giving all units certain strong advantages and disadvantages when facing other units.. this already exist in the original game, I'm just going to adjust it a bit... this will create a sort of chesslike atmosphere as you will be looking for good matchups when facing an enemy army..

example: The most powerful unit in the game is the pike phalanx(Pk), one of the weakest units in the game are the psiloi(Ps)... however, if you match them up the psiloi is somewhat of an advantage.. though he is incapable of melee combat with the pike, in turn the pike will be unable to catch up to him to engage in melee.. meantime the psiloi will be picking away at the mighty phalanx as it lumbers along the battlefield (pikes are very
susceptable to missle attack and since a typical pike unit is extremely expensive this type of attack will be unacceptable) therefore you might opt to send in some auxillaries(Ax) to drive off the psiloi (auxillaries get a bonus when attacking psiloi they also are quick enough to run them down) the enemy might then counter you by sending in the cavalry(Cv) which can overrun the auxillaries and chase them off the field, then you might a spear(Sp) unit to stave off their cav, they counter with a mercenary warband(Wb) to punch through your spears you then send in the heavy cavalry(Hv) to crush them, and they respond by throwing some elephants(El) your way, in which case you will need to bring up the pike phalanx(Pk) that you started with in the first place.. this of course is an oversimplified example but it shows the overall gameplay that i'm trying to achieve.

2. The Diadoch armies will be very expensive to produce and support so you will have to think carefully on how and where to use them effectively. Battles now can become very costly, a victory could even become a defeat in the end... here's an example.. let's say you have chosen the Seleucids as your faction.. just to the northeast of you lies the Parthian empire whose armies are made up almost entirely of cavalry.. you look over
your pike and spear heavy army and think their horses don't stand a chance.. and so you invade.. as the battle commences you feel confident as their cavalry is completely unable to meet your forces head on.. however, you also discover you can't catch up to them to engage them anyway.. then their horse archers pepper you with wave after wave of missles.. after a long grueling march you finally are able to corner there forces which sends them into flight... battle won?.. your casuelties are certainly going to be high. most of their army has escaped.. the territory you now have captured has little in the way of resources to offer you the troops you have lost were very expensive and will take quite a while to replace.. meanwhile the parthian
army you have just defeated has escaped into their northern province joining up with the army in that region.. they will certainly return on the next turn just to repeat the process over again... and the next turn, and the next, until they have depleted your forces enough for their heavy cavalry to finally come in and finish you off.. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

[B]3.In the beginning of the game all factions will start off green.. what i mean is that the armies they produce will be of low morale and will have both low attack and armor values.. this means you will need to spend more time molding your armies into the fighting machine you want..by building shrines, blacksmiths, armorers, etc.. you eventually have a professional army to call upon.. i noticed in several of the mods that i've played that armies seemed ready made, that is they already were very powerful forces that seemed to fight to the death.. i saw very little reason to build anything to increase their say morale as they already seemed to be absolutely fearless, instead i simply concentrated on increasing my wealth (building farms, trade centers, etc.) In my mod you will need to spend more time considering your strategic options in order to produce both a quality army and a wealthy empire.

Inuyasha12
07-26-2004, 12:33
My god https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I had no idea that there was a mod like this in development.
I disregarded many threads(including this one)and now im going back and seeing what i was missing

I loved Hellenic total war, but dreamed of a mod wich was bigger in scale, or based on alexander. I can'rt beleive it was already in progress. Thank you, thank you

Im so happy

https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Btw, when can we expect a BETA version?

maximus decimus meridius
07-26-2004, 16:25
Hi alogic your mod seems to be GREAT After roman era this is my preferred historical period.

I think that it will be a great mod , Good Luck





https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Al Khalifah
07-26-2004, 20:48
Excellent idea for a mod period. Yet it's so obvious it makes you wonder why it hasn't already been done. Great idea.

Any idea when we can expect to see a beta or even just a campmap to get us salivating?

alogic
08-04-2004, 06:02
firstly... thanks everyone for the encouragement..

i cannot give anyone a release date at this time, as i really don't know... at this particular moment i am focused on creating the campmap.. i have pretty much finished the map itself, but i will now need to go back and do the really hard part.. that is the campmap text and province boundaries.. could take awhile

however.. here is a present update of the campmap as it stands.. the first image will give you an overall idea of the scope of the game.. the rest are in game tga's (note i simply swaped mtw map with my own to get these shots.. it is not set up for diadoch period yet)

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=16215
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=16216
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=16217
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=16218

again thanks for your interest




Faction List can be found in the middle of this page


Please scroll down to the heading "Faction Overview"

alogic
08-04-2004, 08:03
here are some additional shots of updated campmap showing how i will display the territories belonging to both Rhodes and Pyrrhus' Italian allies.

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=16222
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=16223

mercian billman
08-06-2004, 03:30
Hi Alogic ~:wave:

I like the idea of everybody starting from scratch but, maybe each faction should have at least one moderately capable troop producing province and, I thought it would also be a good idea for each faction to have a small core of professional troops. They should be large enough that they can turn the tide of a battle and, act as sort of a "Royal Bodyguard" or "Kings Army" but, also small enough that other units would be needed to support early conquests. Perhaps 4-6 units evenly divided between cavalry and infantry would be a good idea.

This would allow a player to have command of some elite units at the beginning but, not enough to build a empire with just them. It would also give these units a special status when an empire is built because, they were there in the beginning stages.

alogic
08-06-2004, 05:01
these units do exist in the game.. look under pike in earlier post.. you will see the divisions.. (levy.. regular.. veteran.. agema).. the agema are the royal bodyguards and a mounted agema will also exist.. the higher units will be quite expensive and will take several turns to produce..

as far as special provinces.. these are also included and will be each successors primary home province.. seleucid=babylonia, ptolemy=egypt, Lysimachos=thrace, cassander=macedonia.. antigonis will actually be the exception because he will control a larger territory than the other diadochi.

alogic
08-07-2004, 08:11
ImageDump seems to have relocated... so it appears I am going to need to reload my screen shots on their new server..

Will begin to rework units this week so I should have some new screen shots soon..........

Marshal Murat
08-07-2004, 18:33
What I suggest for this "professional Army" is that the Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen (whatever the name, using this as a example) can only be build in par say Antioch. That way, several years, this provence is going to be producing 1 agema. You could build a Huge professional army, but it'll take YEARS to do so. Or you could just build some easy units. For specifics, ask experianced modders, or you could try it yourself.

alogic
08-07-2004, 19:44
Sounds good.. I'll take that into consideration.... Speaking of silver shields (argyraspids).. one aspect I haven't mentioned will be Antigonus' possesion of the "true argyraspids" at the beginning of the game. (when I say "true" I mean that these are the actual veterans that fought alongside Alexander). Historically speaking, Antigonus "inherited" these units after defeating Eumenes.. or well actually they turned sides against Eumenes when Antigonus captured their baggage.. Antigonus appears to have dispersed them across his kingdom and they were never actually used again.

For game purposes, Antigonus will be in possesion of these guys right off the bat... however, they will have a serious flaw... they will be irreplaceable.. meaning that once they are gone.. They Are Gone.. Antigonus will be unable to produce any type of foot agema.. so the best he can do will be veterans.. This will be done to help balance the game, as well as give it a somewhat historic feel.. Antigonus will start the game as the most powerful of the successors, but as the game continues he will slowly be outclassed by the others..

Historically, Antigonus was the most powerful... and it took the combined arms of the other four successors to end his reign

For anyone who is unfamiliar with this time period, or would just like to know more.. here is the best place on the web to read all about it...
http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi.htm
The Third Diadoch War is a rough guideline of where my mod starts.

An additional note is that Seleuces' Agema will be referred to as Argyraspids as well, but will not have the punch of the originals "the true"..

alogic
08-08-2004, 10:38
Here is a great place on the web to view diadoch style armies in miniature.. just gives an idea of the look of the troops at this time period for those not familiar... http://www.lochagos.com/gallery/mac/epirote_army.html

Marshal Murat
08-08-2004, 13:56
Just wondering about the Parthians.

They were a sort of Thorn in the Seleucid side, being rebellious and all.
Also, I was wondering about the African vs. Indian elephant. The Indian was larger, so are you going to add those to the game?

Also, I was wondering If I could be a beta tester? Just a question. Sounds like a great mod.

mercian billman
08-09-2004, 00:31
So will the Selucids be the only faction to start with professional troops? My idea was that everyone should start with a few professionals which cannot be replaced until later in the game due to building requirments.

Also I would love to beta test as well. This mod definately looks like it has the potential to reach the heights of NTW and HTW and, I would love to help in any way I can.

alogic
08-09-2004, 07:07
Parthians will play a role in the game.. their armies as stated earlier will be made up almost exclusively of 2 contingents.. Heavy Cavalry (these will be heavily armored) and the famous parthian horse archers.. both of these units will be the best in the game at their respected categories.. Parthian horse archers will also carry a larger supply of ammunition.. thus making them quite effective at what they do.

Elephants will come in 3 main categories

1.regular
2.towered (supporting a manned tower on their back)
3.cataphract (armored)

I will not use a separate bif for african and indian elephants.. if I do include the african it will just appear as a slightly smaller version of the indian.

there may be some other graphical divisions.. but I will save that for later.

As far as beta testing goes.. I cannot give you an answer yet.. as it is still too early...

alogic
08-09-2004, 07:15
I'm not sure where the idea came from that the seleucids would have the only professional army.. all successor armies will start out roughly equal to one another, with the exception of Antigonus, who will start with a larger army supplemented with Alexanders veterans (see earlier post).. however his forces will be spread out over a larger area and he will be completely surrounded by potential enemies, thus helping to neutralize his early advantage.

you might be confusing Antigonus (Antigonid faction) with Antiochos(later Seleucid faction)

mercian billman
08-09-2004, 08:45
Sorry about that I did confuse Antigonus with Antiochos.

alogic
08-10-2004, 06:55
Have updated descriptions of Cavalry, Elephants, and Scythe Chariots on first page of this thread.. have also cleaned up other descriptions.

Collectively these descriptions will form a general unit guide for the game, I will next focus on the factions themselves.. giving everyone a general idea of what's in store.

I will start off by first introducing everyone to the Major Factions in the game aka The Diadochi



FACTION OVERVIEW


*Check back over the following post regularly as they will be updated from time to time... final list will also include.. Faction Heroes.. Starting Provinces.. Initial Income.. Starting Ruler.. etc

**Many other units may be available to your factions at the "inns", these will be mercenaries.. mercenary troops will always fight less effectively than they would if you were able to produce them yourself (ie Cretan Archers purchased from an inn will have a Morale Penalty assesed, whereas those actually produced in Crete will be of high morale and discipline.

***The mounted version of the Agema for most factions will be strictly used by Faction Rulers and their Heirs

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:24
THE DIADOCHI


I. Antigonus

Difficulty:Moderate

The Antigonid faction will start the game, at first glance anyway, as seemingly the most powerful faction. However, though he has in his possesion the largest army and the most territory of all the factions.. he is stretched too thin.. additionally he doesn't control any extraordinary provinces that can produce resources at the scale of say Egypt or Babylon. Because of this, his intial combined income will be the lowest of all the successors.. except Lysimachos. He will also possess a poor naval force which will keep him susceptable to coastal attacks and hinder trade growth. To make matters worse, his territories are completely surrounded by potential enemies.

Initial Strategy:
1.Consolidate your forces (may hae to give up a province or two)
2.Build a naval base and pump out some ships
3.Once your ready (as quickly as you are able) invade and secure the remaining areas making up Asia Minor (eliminating Pontus, Pergamene, & Galatia).... this will be your control base.

Positive:
a.Largest initial army
b.In possession of "True Agyraspids" at start of game
c.Control many provinces meaning you can pump out more troops per turn

Negative
a.Territories not bringing in enough income to support your army
b.Small navy
c.Surrounded by potential enemies
d.Must move quick as your military will be outclassed later in the game.

Army List:

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Red Shields (levy)..... Pantodapoi type
b.White Shields (regulars)
c.Agryspadis (agema)... Alexanders Veterans

2.Spears (Sp)
a.Lykian/Pamphylian (irregulars)
b.Greek Style Foot (regulars)
b.Hypaspist (professionals)

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Euzonoi
b.Thracian mercenaries........ must have an inn to attract & purchase

4.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers,slingers,javelins (irregular to regular)
b.Macedonian Archers (regulars)
c.Akontistai
d.Persian Archers
e.Cretan Archers............. must have inn or control of Crete

5.Heavy Cavalry(HC)
a.Xystophoroi
b.Agema (cataphract)

6.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Satrapal Heavy Cav

7.Light Horse (LH)
a.Satrapal Light Horse
b.Horse Archers
c.Tarantines
d.Generic Light Cav

Elephants (El)
a.Regulars
b.Towered

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:24
II. Cassander

Difficulty:Moderate

Cassander starts the game with the enviable position as ruler of Macedonia.. his provinces are initially happy and therefore easier to control. He will also have plenty of titles to hand out, thus ensuring loyalty from his generals.. this is do to his having Alexander's mother (Olympias) on his side. Unfortunately, he is completely surrounded by potential enemies and it will be tough for him to make a move against one.. without exposing himself to another. Eprius is to his immediate West, The Greek Leagues are to his immediate South, Lysimachos to his immediate East, Galatians and Illyrians to the North.

Initial Strategy
First form alliances with Epirus and Lysimachos..then take control of Greece as soon as you are able, this will give you a power base and allow you to tap into their army list.. after which you should reove the other powers surrounding you.. one by one.

Positive
1.Recieves a slight discount when hiring Pike(Pk) units
2.Recieves a slight discount when hiring Spear(Sp) units
3.Initial provinces and generals are easier to control
4.Initial territories are fairly wealthy (2nd only to Ptolemy)

Negative
1.Surrounded by potential enemies
2.Recieves a slight tax when hiring cavalry (especially Heavy Cav)
3.Recieves a tax penalty when hiring Elephants(El) (especially Towered)

Army List

Pike (Pk)
a.Regulars
b.Veterans
c.Agema

Spear (Sp)
a.Regulars
b.Hypaspist
c.Iphikratean............ lightened and carrying 12ft spear/pike

Auxillary (Ax)
a.Euzonoi
b.Illyrian mercenaries...... with control of Illyrian provinces
c.Thracian mercenaries... must have an inn to purchase

Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Cretan Archers..... with control of Crete

Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Agema
b.Xystophoroi

Cavalry (Cv)
a.Thessalian Cavalry
b.Greek Mercenary Cavalry

Light Horse (LH)
a.generic light cav
b.Greek style light cav

Elephants (El)
a.Regulars
b.Towered

*Cassander may use Greek League Army List if he is able to control Greece
**Can use Epirote army list if he is able to control Epirus

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:25
III. Lysimachos:

Difficulty:Hard

Lysimachos will start the game as the most financially challenged of the five successors, as his provinces are quite sparse in the way of resources. He has adapted to the situation quite well however, by supplementing his army with local Thracians.. thus allowing him to field a much larger & more expendable army at a fraction of the cost. He must take care when formulating a battle plan, to use the terrain to his advantage, seeing that his army should be made up of a large contingent of Auxillary. Battles fought in rough, difficult terrain will favor Lysimachos considerably...

Initial Strategy:

Immediately attempt to form an alliance with Cassander.. this is a major factor for your success. Build up a large army of cheap troops using the overall size of your force to help deter Cassander from considering invading you.. As soon as you are able, begin moving into Asia Minor swallowing up whatever Rebel provinces you can find.. use this as your power base. Wait for other of the Diadochi to come into conflict with one another.. then attack the weaker of the two. (Look for hostilities between Cassander and Epirus/ or Greek Leagues)

Positive
a.Cheap troops.. can be produced quickly and affordably
b.Thracian Thureophoroi are the best Auxillaries in game
c.Affordable cavalry with punch in the Thracian Nobles
d.King of rough terrain combat (as far as the Diadoch are concerned)
e.May avoid invasion initially because your starting provinces are not worth the trouble for the resource dependent Diadochi

Negative
a.Poorest of the Diadochi initially
b.Tax penalty when purchasing Pike(Pk) or Spear(Sp) units
c.Heavy Tax penalty when purchasing Elephants(El)
d.Cannot purchase any Heavy Cavalry (HC), only allotted to your factions leader and heirs.


Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Levy
b.Regulars
c.Veterans
d.Agema

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Thracian Spearmen...... light
b.Greek Mercenary......... regular
c.Hypaspist.................. professional

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Thracian Thureophoroi
b.Illyrian
c.Euzonoi

Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Thracian light peltast
c.Paionian javelinmen

Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Agema

Cavalry (Cv)
a.Thracian Nobles
b.Greek Cavalry

Light Horse (LH)
a.Thracian Light Cav
b.Greek style light cav
c.generic light cav

Elephants (El)
a.Regulars
b.Towered

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:25
IV. Ptolemy

Difficulty:Easier

Ptolemy is envy of all the Diadochi, he is relatively safe initially separated from the others by the Meditteranean and the Arabian Desert. His only nearby rival is the Kyrenaican Faction which poses no real initial threat. He also posseses the richest province in the Diadoch world (Aegypt). Ptolemy is the only Diadochi that can afford the luxury of rest... though this will not last long.

Initial Strategy

Garrison your provinces that are accessible from the East to help deter invasion.. then invade Libya and Kyrenaica.. this will be your power base. Increase the size of your already sizeable navy to maintain control of the seas. Use this time to increase the quality of your troops. When you are ready make an alliance with either Seleuces or Antigonus.. then invade the other.

Positive
a.Largest starting income of the Diadochi
b.Largest starting Navy
c.No immediate threats
d.Machimoi pike unit is best levy Pike(Pk) in the game.. meaning affordable Pike based armies.

Negative
a.Very Heavy Tax Penalty on all forms of cavalry
b.Very Heavy Tax Penalty on all forms of Elephants
c.Elephant forces will be slightly weaker do to use of "African" breed
d.Everyone wants to be a Phaeroh, so watch out..

Army List:

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Machimoi......... levy
b.Regulars
c.Veterans
d.Agema

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Thureophoroi....... Levy
a.Greek Style Foot.. Regular
c.Hypaspist............ Professional

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Thracian Mercenaries......... must have inn to purchase
b.Libyan Spearmen............... must control Libya

4.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Syrian slingers....................require control of Syria
c.Rhodian slingers..................require control of Rhodes
d.Cilician javelinmen................require control of Cilicia
e.Cretan Archers....................inn or control of Crete
f.Egyptian Archers

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Klerouchoi Guard
b.Xystophoroi

6.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Greek style Cav

7.Light Horse (LH)
a.Tarantines
b.generic light cav
c.Libyan light cav.................. with control of Libya

8.Elephantes (El)
a.Regular
b.Towered

9.Blades (Bd)
a.Immitation Legionaires

*may use Kyrenaican Army List if control of their provinces is established

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:26
V. Seleucid


Difficulty:Fair

The "Spoiler" as I like to refer to him, had gone from an Admiral in Ptolemy's army to ruler of Babylon and the nemesis of Antigonus... The Seleucids will begin the game fairly well off income wise and geographically speaking. There will be no major threat to be had from the other Diadoch as the game begins, and his territories will be surrounded by rebel (Satrapal) provinces controlled by lesser Satraps.. However, trouble is brewing in the East in the way of Parthia and Bactria.. argueably the two strongest of the Minor Kingdoms. It won't be long before they come knocking on the city gates of Babylon.

Initial Strategy

Spread out on a land grab, hogging up the lesser satrapies, before your rivals do. Make an alliance, if possible, with Antigonus and Ptolemy.. this will keep you relatively safe in the West, and lets you focus your attention on the East. Bypass the Parthians if you can, but set up good defensive forces in case they attack (Parthia is much better at defending than attacking), and head for Bactria. Bactria has the potential to become a major threat and needs to be dealt with early on before its too late.

Positive
a.Relatively safe initially
b.Fairly wealthy and content Provinces
c.Discount on all Cavalry purchases
d.Discount on most Elephant purchases
e.Well rounded army featuring several unique units

Negative
a.Army is initially the smallest of the Diadoch and spread out
b.Tax penalty on most Pike(Pk) and Spear(Sp) units
c.Will need to face two of the more dangerous Minor Factions early on
d.No navy or Mediteranean trade initially
e.Distance from other successors could make alliances time consuming

Army List:

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Pantodapoi...... (Levy)
b.Phalanx........... (Regulars)
c.Veteran
d.Argyraspids..... (Agema)

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Greek Style
b.Hypaspist
c.Thureophoroi
d.Thorakitai

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Euzonoi
b.Thracian Mercenaries........ purchased from inn

4.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, and javelinmen
b.Cretan Archers.................. control of Crete or purchased at inn

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Katoikoi Guard..... (cataphract)
b.Companions........ (xystophoroi)
c.Lancers

6.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Galatian Cavalry....................... must control Galatian territories

7.Light Horse (LH)
a.generic light cav
b.Tarantines
c.Horse Archers

8.Elephants (El)
a.Regular
b.Towered
c.Cataphract

9.Scythe Chariots (SyC)

10.Blades (Bd)
a.Immitation Legionaires

11.Warbands (Wb)
a.Galatian Warband (Light).............. must control Galatian provinces

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:29
The Diadochi are not the only game in town, as there are several Minor Factions ready to rise up and take control of the Hellenic World..


Minor Factions

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:30
Epirus

Difficulty:Hard

Description

Initial Strategy

Positive

Negative

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Conscript Phalanx....... Levy
b.Regulars
c.Chaeonian Guards....... Agema

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Greek Mercenaries
b.Samnite & Italiot Allies

3.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, and javelinmen
b.Rhodian Slingers...................... must have control of Rhodes
c.Cretan Archers........................ must have control of Crete

4.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Samnites
b.Greek Style Peltasts

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Agema

6.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Thessalian
b.Greek Mercenary

7.Light Horse (LH)
a.Tarantines
b.generic light horse
c.Ambrakiots

8.Elephants (El)
a.Regular
b.Towered

*may use Greek Army List if control of Greek League is established

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:31
The Greek League

Aetolian & Achaean Leagues

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Pike Phalanx

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Citizen Hoplite
b.Perioikoi Hoplite
c.Spartan Citizen Hoplite
d.Citizen Thureophoroi

3.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, and javelinmen
b.Aetolian javelinmen

4.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Greek Cav

5.Light Horse (LH)
a.Tarantines
b.Aetolian Light Cav

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:32
Bactria

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Bactrian Pike Phalanx...... Veteran

2.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Mountain Indian Archers
b.Subject Tribe Foot
c.Pisidian Colonist

3.Psiloi (Ps)
a.Mountain Indian Archers
b.Foot Archers

4.Bowmen (Bw)
a.Indian Archers

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Iranian Lancers............. have option to use bow
b.Cataphracts
c.Greek Bodyguards

8.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Saka Nobles
b.Indian Classical Cavalry

8.Light Horse (LH)
a.Steppe Light Horse
b.Saka Light Cavalry
c.Arachosian Light Cavalry
d.Bactrian Light Cavalry
e.Indian Light Cavalry

9.Elephants
a.Regular
b.Towered

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:33
Pergamene

Difficulty:Very Hard

Description:

Initial Strategy

Positive

Negative

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Diadoch Mercenary.............. only with control of a Diadochi home province

2.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Mercenary Auxillary

3.Psiloi (Ps)
a.Traillian Slingers
b.Mysians
c.Kappadokian Archers............. with control of Kappadokia
d.Cretan Archers.................... with inn or control of Crete

4.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Pergamene Lancers.............. Agema
b.Diadoch Heavy Cav.............. only with control of a Diadochi home province

5.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Thracian Mercenary Cav........... with inn or control of Thracia
b.Galatian Cavalry...................... with inn or control of Galatian territories

6.Light Horse (LH)
a.Pergamene Light Cavalry
b.Kappadokian Light Cav............. with control of Kappadokia

7.Warband (Wb)
a.Galatian Light Warband............ can be produced in Pergamene itself, or
with control of Galatian Territories, or inn

8.Elephants (El)
a.Diadoch Elephants (Reg)....... only with control of a Diadochi home province
b.Diadoch Elephants (Towered). only with control of a Diadochi home province

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:33
Pontus

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Slave Phalanx............ Levy
b.Brazen Shields........... Regulars
c.Sinopean Guard......... Agema

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Thureophoroi

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Thracian Mercenaries......... with inn or control of Thrace

4.Psiloi (Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Ppntic Archers
c.Pontic Javelinmen

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Cataphract
b.Bosphoran, Iazygian, or Rhoxolani Nobles......... with control of territories
c.Armenian Cataphracts................................ with control of Armenia

6.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Agema
b.Pontic Heavy Cavalry

7.Light Horse (LH)
a.Pontic Light Horse
b.Scythian Cavalry
c.Horse Archers

8.Warband (Wb)
a.Galatian Mercenaries................................ with control of Galatia

9.Blades (Bd)
a.Immitation Legionaires

10.Scythe Chariots (SyC)
a.Scythe Chariot (duh)

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:34
Galatians (think Gaul-atia)

Army List

1.Warband (Wb)
a.Heavy Infantry
b.Light Infantry
c.Fanatics

2.Psiloi (Ps)
a.Galatian Skirmishers

3.Cavalry (Cv)
a.Galatian Cavalry

4.Scythe Chariot (SyC)
a.Tetrarchs Attatchment
b.Regulars

5.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Painonian Warriors............... from Northern Greek Territories only

6.Light Horse
a.Painonian Light Cav............... from Northern Greek Territories only

7.Blades (Bd)
a.Galatian Immitation Legionaires

*may use portions of Greek Army List if control of Greece established

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:35
Jewish State

Difficulty:Very Hard

Description

Initial Strategy

Positive

Negative

Army List

1.Pike (Pk)
a.Foot of the Phalanx......... Regulars (Inferior)

2.Spear (Sp)
a.Rule Infantry (Spear Armed)
b.Levites Guard.................. Agema Type

3.Auxillary (Ax)
a.Guerilla Foot

4.Psiloi (Ps)
a.Guerilla Slingers
b.Guerilla Archers
c.Guerilla Javelins
d.Regulars (Archers)

5.Heavy Cavalry (HC)
a.Cavalry of the High Priest................. Agema
b.Cavalry of the Army

6.Light Cavalry (LH)
a.Cavalry of the Phalanx (Skirmishers)
b.Cavalry of the Phalanx (Horse Archers)

7.Blades (Bd)
a.Rule Infantry (Blade Armed)
b.Levites Guard.................... Agema Type

alogic
08-10-2004, 07:35
Parthia

Army List

1.Heavy Cavalry(HC)
a.Parthian Cataphracts
b.Guard Cavalry

2.Cavalry(Cv)
a.Saka Cavalry

3.Light Horse(LH)
a.Parthian Horse Archers
b.Arachosian Light Cav
c.Hill Tribe Light Cav
d.Saka Horse Archers
e.generic horse archers

4.Auxillary(Ax)
a.Guard Theurophoroi
b.Hill Tribe Spearmen
c.Mountain Tribesmen
d.Subject Tribe Foot
e.City Militia

5.Psiloi(Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Mountain Tribesmen
c.Saka Foot Archers
d.City dwellers

6.Bowmen(Bw)
a.Parthian Foot Archers

7.Elephants(El)
a.Regulars.............................. with control of Bactria

Consul Flaminius
08-10-2004, 08:05
Sounds good ~:)

Marshal Murat
08-10-2004, 13:09
Basically the Beta tester is
a person who you sent a early copy of Diodachi out to.
They then play it (revealing very few details to the larger crowd)
And then they give you a "bug" report of things not working correctly, etc.

Also, the Jewish State, a hero person to include is Maccabeus.

alogic
08-10-2004, 18:50
I am aware of the meaning of "beta tester".. I was one of the testers for HTW.. There is still alot of things to be done before any sort of beta testing will begin... If I use any, they will probably be people who have contributed to my mod in some way or another.. I will list some opportunities in the near future..

Heroes will be included and I will list all of them with their factions at a later date... probably in the sections just above this post.

Now I need to get back to work :toilet:

Marshal Murat
08-10-2004, 23:31
Great faction descriptions! Absolutely great!
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/D/Diadochi.asp
Basic Diadochi
http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/straif/69/engraphia.htm
Battle of Raphia
http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/neareast/ne06.html
History of the Middle East

alogic
08-11-2004, 01:27
WOW...


1000 views and counting


thanx everyone

Marshal Murat
08-11-2004, 01:30
Your welcome!

mercian billman
08-11-2004, 02:07
Your Welcome and, thanks for your efforts :)

alogic
08-11-2004, 06:48
Non Playable Factions


Those other guys that are going to be out to get you

alogic
08-11-2004, 06:51
Armenia

Army List

1.Heavy Cavalry(HC)
a.Armenian Cataphracts
b.Median Cataphacts................. with control of Media
c.Albanian Cataphracts.............. with control of Albania
d.Hibernian Cavalry................... with control of Iberia

2.Cavalry(Cv)
a.Heavy Cavalry

3.Light Horse(LH)
a.generic light horse
b.horse archers
c.Alan cavalry......................... mercenary unit.. (will define later)
d.Median Horse Archers............ with control of Media established
e.Armenian Horse Archers
f.Arab Horsemen...................... with control of Arabia
g.Arab Scouts......................... with control of Arabia

4.Pike(Pk)
a.Pike Phalanx......................... must control Syria

5.Auxillary(Ax)
a.Hibernian Longchophoroi.......... must control Iberia

6.Psiloi(Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Armenian Archers
c.Albanian Archers................... control of Albania established
d.Albanian Javelinmen............... control of Albania established

7.Blades(Bd)
a.Arab Warriors........................ control of Arabia
b.Immitation Legionaires............ with control of Diadochi Home Province (ie. Aegypt, Babylonia, Thrace..)

alogic
08-11-2004, 06:51
Kyrenaica

According to Greek mythology, Cyrene (Kyrene) was the daughter of the naiad Creusa and the mortal Hypseus, king of the Lapiths. Apollo fell in love with her and took her to Africa, where he built her a city (called Cyrene), in the region that came to be known as Cyrenaica in eastern Libya.(Introduction copied from Fanaticus site)



Army List

1.Pike(Pk)
a.Regulars...................... Lots of initial building requirements
b.Household Infantry............ same as above + longer production time

2.Spears(Sp)
a.Kyrenean Hoplites
b.Greek Mercenaries
c.Thorakitai
d.Iphikratean

3.Auxillary(Ax)
a.Euzonoi
b.Militia Theurophoroi

4.Psiloi(Ps)
a.archers, slingers, javelinmen
b.Libyan Javelinmen

5.Heavy Cavalry(HC)
a.Household Companions

6.Cavalry(Cv)
a.Greek Cavalry

7.Light Horse(LH)
a.generic light cav
b.Libyan Light Cav

8.Chariots (SyC)
a.Four-Horse Chariot........... non Scythe (Skirmishing type)

alogic
08-11-2004, 06:53
Illyria

alogic
08-11-2004, 06:54
Bosphorus

alogic
08-11-2004, 18:20
Here is an opportunity to help out with my mod..... I need to find some banners (flags).. to represent my different factions...

See if you can find me or create me some good examples... give me some suggestions as to what faction you would like to see sporting which banner.

For instance i have a small pic of a horses head which I may use to represent the Seleucids... afterall Seleuces had a coin minted with an image of the horse he used to escape from Antigonus.. also cavalry will be featured to a larger degree in the Seleucid army than in the other Diadochi ranks.

At any rate.. any help in this area will be greatly appreciated.....

saundersag
08-11-2004, 18:41
I have been watching this thread and your mod seems very interesting, i was just wondering what date the game will end. Because i beleive that they all remained for quite a while and they all were finally conquered by the romans. So i was wondering if you will include them as a faction and how long a period it would be. Best of Luck your pictures look great and i look forward to hopefully downloading it when you release a beta.

Marshal Murat
08-11-2004, 18:43
http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/seleucid-dynasty.htm
Seleucid Family Line
http://www.friesian.com/hist-1.htm
Interestin Stuff

Also for Ptolmey wht not use some Heiroglyph for p, or pt

alogic
08-11-2004, 19:40
Rise of Rome initial post

Thank you for your interest...

At this time the romans are not included.. this mainly has to do with the size of the map, and the limitation in MTW sets for the creation of graphical files that will represent the units in the game... I'm already going to be pushing the limit on this aspect.. I do however have plans... at a much later date.. to do a roman mod, dealing Rome's rise to power, and will feature aspects relating to the same time period as the Diadoch... It will feature the Romans, Etruscans, Aequi, Volsci, Samnites, Oscans, Tarentines, Syracuse, Epirus, Gauls (various tribes), Celtiberians (Early Spanish), Carthage, Nubia... I am waiting for the upcoming Rome Total War release.. to see if I can mod in this platform... and of course I would like to finish The Diadoch first.

The game (Diadoch) will run in turns... not years.. the actual date I have left vague on purpose... The object of the game is to reunite Alexander's Kingdom before the Roman Invasion (aka.. end of game) One of the reasons Rome had such an "easy" time taking out the Successors was that they were too busy fighting one another to recognize and react to the Roman threat.

One way that I might concede to using the Romans is if I can figure out the Mongol Invasion specifics to where I could have them arrive in the west instead of the east... then I would simply replace "Mongol" with "Roman"

alogic
08-11-2004, 19:42
Murat

I especially like the second site included in your post.. I have seen it before but forgot to bookmark it....... Thanx

As far as the Hieroglyph goes.. sounds cool.. but what does it look like.. I've never seen it.

alogic
08-11-2004, 20:12
Here is another way to help me out.. I would like to get more information concerning the units used by The Hellenstic Greek Armies.. namely the Achaean and Aetolian Leagues...

Also keep looking for banners as discussed in earlier post

mercian billman
08-11-2004, 20:29
Here's some info on the Ptolemaic Egypt

http://www.egyptologyonline.com/ptolemies.htm

Here's the Ptolemite line

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cleopatra-VII-of-Egypt

Ptolemaic rulers and consorts
The dates in brackets are regnal dates for the kings. They frequently ruled jointly with their wives, who were often also their sisters. Several queens exercised regal authority, but the most famous and successful was Cleopatra VII (51 BC-30 BC), with her two brothers and her son as successive nominal co-rulers.
Ptolemy I Soter (305 BC-282 BC) married Eurydice, then Berenice I
Ptolemy II Philadelphos (284 BC-246 BC) married Arsinoe I, then Arsinoe II Philadelphos; ruled jointly with Ptolemy the Son (267 BC-259 BC)
Ptolemy III Euergetes I (246 BC-222 BC) married Berenice II
Ptolemy IV Philopater (222 BC-204 BC) married Arsinoe III
Ptolemy V Epiphanes (204 BC-180 BC) married Cleopatra I
Ptolemy VI Philometor (180 BC-164 BC, (163 BC-145 BC) married Cleopatra II
Ptolemy VII Neos Philopater (never reigned)
Ptolemy VIII (164 BC-163 BC, (145 BC-116 BC)Euergetes II (Physcon) married Cleopatra II then Cleopatra III (Kokke)
Cleopatra II (132 BC-124 BC) Philometora Soteira, in opposition to Ptolemy VIII
Ptolemy IX Philometor Soter II (Lathyros) (116 BC-107 BC, (88 BC-81 BC) married Cleopatra IV then Cleopatra Selene; ruled jointly with Cleopatra III in his first reign
Ptolemy X Alexander I (107 BC-88 BC) married Cleopatra Selene then Berenice III; ruled jointly with Cleopatra III till 103 BC
Berenice III (81 BC-80 BC)
Ptolemy XI Alexander II (80 BC) married and ruled jointly with Berenice III
Ptolemy XII Neos Dionysos (Auletes) (80 BC-58 BC, 55 BC-51 BC) and Cleopatra V Tryphaena
Cleopatra V Tryphaena (58 BC-57 BC) ruled jointly with Berenice IV (58 BC-55 BC)
Cleopatra VII (51 BC-30 BC) ruled jointly with Ptolemy XIII (51 BC-47 BC) then
Arsinoe IV (49 BC-41 BC) Ruled part of the Ptolemaic Dynasty's countries and married her dear brothers, Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV
Ptolemy XIV (47 BC-44 BC) then
Ptolemy XV (44 BC-30 BC)

mercian billman
08-11-2004, 20:39
Here's some info from the Battle of Cynocphalae

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/cynocephalae-197bc.htm

It really doesn't describe the troops so much but, does state the Roman army used Phalangites, Peltasts, and, Cavalry from the Aetolian league.

Also the knowledge that the Phalanx was weak if they were flanked is probably valuable but, I'm sure you know that.

Marshal Murat
08-11-2004, 22:24
The Aetolian League was friendly with the Romans, and gave them support troops. Sparta stayed with its Hoplites, and Helot Auxillaries.

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm
The URL is a general ancient reference. Go to Places and Maps, go to the bottom of the page, and it has Empires after Alexander.

http://www.geocities.com/christopherjbennett/ptolemies/affilates/aff_antigonids.htm
Antigiond Dynasty

http://www.quizland.com/hiero.mv
Herioglyph Translator

alogic
08-12-2004, 07:39
Ok... I've scoured the internet and I think that I now have most, if not all of my faction emblems/flags worked out... and I have to say that they are pretty.. bad ass... I can't wait to transfer them into the game so that I can take a look at them on the battlefield.. will get some shots up as soon as am able..

alogic
08-13-2004, 21:39
see new picture of machimoi below... shield will probably be changed out.. Ptolemies fation color will probably be a lighter shade of blue.. everything else should be final.

Marshal Murat
08-13-2004, 21:58
How about adding a dagger of some sort.

alogic
08-18-2004, 07:53
Machimoi http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17049
Class:(Pk)
SubCls:(Lv)

Attributes:
1.Movement: Slow
2.Turnspeed: Slow
3.Morale: Fair
4.Charge: High
5.Attack: Good
6.Defense: Low
7.Armor: Poor
8.Shield: Small

Special:
1.Bonus vs Mounted troops
2.May charge without orders
3.5 rows of support
4.Inexpensive to purchase and maintain (in relation to other pike units)

The Machimoi make up the Egyptian "Warrior" class, Ptolemy was reluctant to use them for fear of revolt... they gave a good account of themselves at the battle of Raphia.. In game, Ptolemy will find them most useful and will make an excellent supplement to his pike heavy armies. They will be the best of the levied pike units.. however, one must keep a close eye on them in battle as they are rated "impestuous" and may get carried away and chase after the enemy causing disorder in your lines...

alogic
08-20-2004, 07:59
New Galatian Warband model is near completion.. just want to redo textures for clothing. Here is a shot from dbaol online showing their representation of this unit... my model looks very similar (helmet is identical and clothing/armor is very close.. will hopefully have a screen shot ready by tommorrow evening.

http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_45_figure_1.htm

pick warband from army Galatian army list... I will also be using their images for Galatian Cavalry and Immitation Legionaires as reference for my game models.. so you can get an idea of what you'll be seeing in the future

alogic
08-20-2004, 08:36
Here is a look at my new info-pics... I have decided to give them a playing card kind of appearance.. probably a little weird for some of you, but I like it alot.. The pictures will now give you a better insight into the units themselves as I have listed their attributes on the card..

Here is the example.. note that this is not the final version.. also the name and description are not enteed yet.. this is the reason for the weird error message at the top of the picture.. These will be added later.

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17158


Here is the key to the abbreviations found on the card

1.Name:(ex.Machimoi)
2.Group/Subgroup:Pk(Pike)/Lv(Levy)
3.CH=Charge
4.AT=Attack
5.DF=Defense
6.AR=Armor
7.MO=Morale
8.MV=Movement (walk speed... run & charge can be calculated from here)

The abr. on the bottom of the card represent various bonuses, penalties, and extra attributes.. a dark shade=bonus or capabilty and a light shade=penalty

1.Sp=Support (ie. spears and pikes)
2.Tr=Terrain (unit penalized in bad terrain)
3.Cv=Cavalry (unit recieves bonus when fighting against mounted units)
4.Rg=Ranged (unit capable of ranged attack)
5.Fr=Fear (unit generates fear in enemy units)

Some of you may think the ranged category is obvious.. here are a few units you can guess on.. Iranian Lancers, Jewish Immitation Legionaires, Euzonoi, Elephants, Scythe Chariots, etc..

saundersag
08-20-2004, 09:13
I think this is a good idea as it tells you about the units rather than the vague terms from medieval total war, and this will help people choose their units and to understand them as you said. Also the image is good and and it think fits into the era. This mod keeps looking better and better.

Pericles
08-20-2004, 15:29
alogic:

Just wanted to say I think your Mod idea for this is great.

You appear to have a very good idea what you want in this mod, and all your work so far has been excellent.

Your "Playing Card" idea is brilliant! ~:cheers:

And I like the detail of your units.

Please keep up the hard work - I'll be lookig forward to playing this mod.

With the movie "Alexander" due out in November - this mod will make for a great tie-in with it.

Cheers!

alogic
08-20-2004, 19:14
Thanks for the encouragement... nice to see that even with Rome Total War on the near horizon, I still have viewers here at my humble thread..... My wife wants me to take her shopping today...................

:hanged:
................so the Galatian Warband will have to wait to this evening... Having a little trouble with cloth texture and also chainmail is rendering too dark.. but nothing that I can't fix.. These guys will also have one of the coolest fight animations in the game (a really wicked sword swing) can't wait for everybody to see it.. anyways look for an update late this evening....

alogic
08-21-2004, 04:36
Alright I'm back... just a little dazed from all the shopping :stars: ...but should recover soon enough to have that galatian wb ready.... I'll report back soon....


......... oh I almost forgot.. I will also be updating the faction army list for non playable factions.. you can find these close to the top of this page..

alogic
08-21-2004, 08:36
Ok... here is the Galatian Warband as it stands... I will make adjustments later to clothing and armor.. (armor will be darker and more uniform.. clothing will have a checkered pattern)... I've had alot of trouble with this guy.. especially getting his clothing to conform correctly (you can see this around his ankles)... I am especially proud of the helmet.. I think I got it pretty close to that of the dbaol image (and this also took quite abit of work)........ sorry no in-game screenies yet with this guy, but I'm working on it.

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17223

Next.. I'll be redoing the uniforms for my regular & veteran Pikes as well as creating the first of the Agema (these guys are going to be super cool.. they will have helmets with either wings or tassels dpending on the unit... and will have thorax-style armor (cuirass)...

Will also be changing out the Pantodapoi Helmet.. will give him a more Eastern style appearance... also will make slight alteration to his clothing (increasing visibility of faction colors)

I would also like some input on the Machimoi shield type.. would you like to see an egyptian styled shield (such as the one on my info pic shot) or would you like to see the more historically correct round shield)

alogic
08-21-2004, 21:10
Have updated the Parthian Army List (page 2 of this thread)... may make some adjustments later..


Below this post I will begin giving an inventory of the various models that will appear in-game.. the reason for this is really to help me get a handle on which models I'm going to use... For those of you that don't know.. there are exactly 48 bif folders in mtw(vi).. this technically means that you can only introduce 48 models into the game... I have found a way around this to some degree and I'm figuring that my mod will consist of at least 60 new models and possibly as many as 70... this will include roughly 30 infantry models, 20+cavalry, 5 new horse models, 4 elephants, 1 or 2 chariots, and hopefully still have room for some specialized units that I have not discussed yet....


Model Inventory

alogic
08-22-2004, 05:38
Here is the info-pic for Galatian Wb

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17269

Here is a new model... this will probably serve as a type of generic light infantry.. will be used to represent several different units in game.. the picture shows him with a bow.. but he could also be equipped with spear, sword, or even pike.. there will be other generic light infantry models giving the game more depth and variation.

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17274

Here is another generic light infantry... this one equipped with a javelin.. could just as easy have been a sling or bow or spear.. etc

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17276

Here is a new look at the Pantodapoi... Ihave changed out the old helmet to give him a more Eastern appearance... he will be found in both the Seleucid and Antigonid armies.

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17279


Here is another unit.. may or may not use this guy.. depends alot on amount of space available.. some variation should find its way in the game.... for now will just call him a Libyan style spearman....

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17280

Here is a look at one of the many Heavy Cav types that will be in the game..
will eventually have a fan shaped crest attatched to horses head armor (ala Seleucids)

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17282

Pericles
08-22-2004, 17:29
alogic:

Considering that you are doing most of the work on this mod yourself, I must say that I am impressed with what you have done.

Great concept and artwork.

I don't think you or any of the other modders have to worry about RTW. That game covers a specific time period, while your mod and others, cover many other time periods. Plus MTW, is about a completely different era.

So, all your mods will be enjoyed for a long time to come.

Please continue with your very fine efforts :)

Cheers!

alogic
08-23-2004, 03:15
Here are some new models... the first is an Argyraspid (Silver Shield) Pikeman.. These will form the Agema role for the Seleucid faction.. will also be used in the beginning of game to represent Alexanders' Veterans... this model is still a work in progress.. tunic and skirt textures will definetly be changed..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17331

ok.. here is another work in progress.. this will eventually be a Thracian style Auxillary.. probably will be armed with javelins and a rhomophaia (think falx)..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17334

This is the Cretan Archer model.. you can see an in game screenie of this guy on the first page of this thread... just wanted to show you guys a close-up
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17346

... and here is the model of the Machimoi.. again an in-game screenie of this guy is on page one of this thread...
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17347

This is another look at one of the Immitation Legionaires that will appear in game
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17369

This guy will represent the Galatian Fanatic unit.. basically a crazed unarmored unit with a great attack.. and ability to cause fear in other units.. really nasty guy................... additionally this same model could be used to represent other light units... (for instance a Jewish Guerilla skirmisher.. just trade in sword for sling, javelin, etc...
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17377

This next one will be another generic unit.. its main role is that of a generic horse archer.. again with a little manipulation may be able to use him for other units as well..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17378

This will eventually represent the Hypaspist.. these are light professional troops, best used in defending the flanks...
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17412

Here is the image I used for reference
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1344_face.jpg

Here is a (Cv) unit.. this one representing a Thracian Noble..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17415

here is the image I used for reference for the model above... pretty close?
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_27_figure_1.htm

alogic
08-24-2004, 09:51
OK.. some more models

I.Generic Light Cavalry.... you'll just have to imagine the horse..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17465
Here is the reference Image.. look under Light Horse
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_42a_figure_1.htm

II.Hellenic (style) Pike Phalanx.. this unit will show up in Pyrrhus' army, as well as the Greek Leagues and Pontus...
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17472
Here is the reference image.. look under Pike
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_58_figure_1.htm

III.Eastern Archer.. again this will probably represent several different units in game.. (ie..give'm a sling... syrian slinger.. give'm a spear.. eastern levy(Hd).)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17473

IV.Galatian Light Infantry.. will have a checkered texture to display faction colors... main unit in Galatian army, as well as being one of the many mercenaries your likely to find at your local inn.
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17476

V.Euzonoi... primary auxillary unit of most Diadoch armies....
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17490

VI.Greek Light Cav
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17518

Thedevil003
08-24-2004, 14:59
Great models

Marshal Murat
08-25-2004, 04:15
Just remember any soldiers you have, if thier generic then you'll need to change the colors to green and purple to show the factions.

alogic
08-25-2004, 07:17
I'm aware... I just thought you guys would be more interested in seeing how they will look in game as opposed to something like this
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17477

the image above will represent a Diadochi (style) Pike.. this is a regular not veteran... all textures seen in the other images will be or have already been fitted with faction colors...

I just think you guys would rather see them as they will appear rather than covered with neon green and pink textures.. as they appear in the bif files.. :cowboy:

At any rate.. I do appreciate your interest and advice... Keep it coming

One other thing worth mentioning (sort of)... I just noticed on one of my earlier pics.. that my model is somewhat exposed... The base models that I am using are "anatomically correct"... ok..... this means they have a penis.. :jawdrop:
I try to make sure that the models are fully covered, but apparently I missed one... if this offends anyone I will remove the pic...... most of you probably haven't noticed anyway..... which is a good thing..

alogic
08-25-2004, 09:46
CAUTION


Anatomically Correct Models At Work


http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17491


.... ok... enough joking.. I'll put up some new models tommorrow ..... probably a Galatian Cavalry.. another Agema (type) Pikeman... Greek Mercenaries?
........................... without the immature distractions...

Duke John
08-25-2004, 16:37
Thread stickied

alogic
08-25-2004, 19:12
YeeeeessssS


I have been freeeeeedddd from the bowels of this forum... thanks to the Duke.... thank you

Duke John
08-25-2004, 19:17
I am only a pawn in the hands of the Lord of Storms :stwshame:


:wink:

Lord Of Storms
08-26-2004, 15:38
:saint: :bow: ~:joker: LOS

alogic
08-27-2004, 21:04
Thanks, as well to the Lord Of Storms...

Just checking in with everyone... I am very busy right now with my real job.. and I will be until Sunday.. I am still working on the mod but in small pieces, will have much more time on Sunday to get things done..

One thing that I am working on, that is giving me alot of trouble, is creating a Boetian style helmet in 3d.. this is the helmet used by Alexanders Companions and will make an appearance in my mod on several different cavalry units... It is very difficult to create... may take some time to get it right... I have created two models so far.. but I'm not happy with either one..

Hopefully should have some new updates and pics on Sunday.....

alogic
08-30-2004, 00:41
Here is new model... will probably represent some type of hellenic agema type.. ie Pontic Sinopean Guard...
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=17773
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=115515&poll_id=0&category_id=19&warned=y
new server

ok..... I've got more images to upload.. but Image Dump website is not cooperating... will post as soon as I am able..

.... No dice... image dump server is down.. will post new images as soon as it is up again.......

alogic
08-30-2004, 02:35
Ok.. I've found another imagedumb.. i mean dump..server.. here is another new unit Klerouchoi Lt Cav.. will be mounted in game
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=115510&poll_id=0&warned=y

Just click view anyway option and you will be directed to the image

Here is another new Generic Lt Infantry.. again this one is on new server
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=115512&poll_id=0&category_id=20&warned=y

alogic
08-31-2004, 08:29
Just checking in... I am now hard at work animating some of the new models that I've posted.. and am in the process of transfering them into the game environment... this is the tough part.. well not really tough.. just time consuming... Once I have a few new ones transfered I'll put up some screenies of them going at it on the battlefield....

dimitrios the samian
09-01-2004, 14:47
Gidday Alogic
Superb effort ,, nice models !! .. DIADOCHI is going to be awesome , I just loved my DBA battles from this awesome timeperiod .
I really like the idea of the Random Roman Intervention from the East and I hope you can somehow crack the code for it to be implemented .
Mate all i can say is keep up the great work and if i could Mod and mess with files and such I would most definately be helping in any way possible .
cheers ~:cheers:
If you need an extra beta tester at a later stage do consider me . :jumping:

Pericles
09-01-2004, 18:15
I agree.

Superb effort.

MTW and its mods will still be played long after RTW has been released, so please keep up the excellent work ~:)

alogic
09-02-2004, 03:11
Thanks once again for all the encouragement.... I appreciate the support :thumbsup:

Right now I am busy introducing my models into the game environment... I have a Hellenic Pike and a Generic Light Infantry (last two on list) nearly complete as far as (stand, walk, run, & die) I still need (charge, fight, shoot)
Also the Generic Light will have two shoot animations (bow & sling/javelin) this will help make the model more versaltile..

Here is some good news as far as modeling goes.. I am going to use a method for animating I once seen in NTW.. in which the animation sets consist of only six separate images.. instead of 12.. this will help me save time creating models and it really doesn't effect the graphics too much.. I'm not really going to go in to how this works.. but trust me.. it does.

On the same note.. the way I plan on adding more units to the game is by adding more cavalry graphics per Bif.. this is something I also learned from NTW.. I believe I can fit between 3-4 units per page.. (in NTW I've seen as many as 5).. This means that I can use less pages for cav and still have plenty of different types.. thus saving room for more infantry Bifs.. pretty cool ehhh.....

Another little note.. I have also started making some decisions on faction colors.. here is a short list.. not all factions are present here:

1. Antigonid....... Red / Yellow
2. Cassander...... Blue / White
3. Lysimachus.... Green / Gold
4. Ptolemy........ Lt Blue / White (?)
5. Seleucid........ Purple / Gold

6. Galatia......... Green / Red
7. Pontus......... White / Blue
8. Pergamene.....(?)
9. Kyrenaica....... Orange / (?)
10. Greek States... Dk Red / Blue
11. Jewish State... Brown / White
12. Parthia......... Lt Red / Purple
13. Epirus........... Gold / Red
14. Bactria......... Maroon / White

maximus decimus meridius
09-03-2004, 00:23
Awesome work Alogic, especially with the unitgraphics, this will be an AWESOME MOD !

With your mod, Middle Earth TW, Hellenic TW e Nap TW , Medieval Total War is one the best game we have ever seen.
I don't think that RTW will be so moddable, so maybe MTW is best than RTW...

cheers
~:wave:

Meneldil
09-03-2004, 11:02
I've read a few billion times that RTW is supposed to be way more moddable than MTW, so I hope we'll have awesome mods with RTW as well.

alogic
09-03-2004, 17:47
Don't believe everything you read... no matter how many times Creative Assembly states it.. I am very skeptical about RTW.. in fact.. I have only played the demo (as well as a couple of RTW mods) a couple of times... I found it to be a total bore.. and have since stopped messing with it.. I will wait to give my complete condemnation until after I have seen the final release.. who knows.. maybe I'll find it more interesting then..

Meneldil
09-03-2004, 18:55
Half the people who played MTW said "it sucks, STW was way better" so, no offense but I think you'll play it as everybody here.

alogic
09-03-2004, 23:15
Good point Meneldil.. I might enjoy RTW once it is released....... but for the moment :zzz:

alogic
09-03-2004, 23:44
Pyrrhus

When Hannibal was asked to rank the greatest generals of all time, there was no suprise when he chose Alexander as number one... however, when pressed to disclose whom he felt should follow at #2... he chose Pyrrhus of Epirus... WOW.. what a compliment.

In Diadoch Alexanders Successors Pyrrhus will live up to Hannibal's word.. He will be the best general available in the mod and will be Epirus' saving grace.. so long as they can hold out until his arrival (via Hero)...

The Epirotes will also have some unique units at their disposal to aid Pyrrhus in his conquest... One will be Samnite Warriors.. recruited from the Italian mainland (where Pyrrhus will have an expeditionary force) they will be a fierce Warband (Wb) which will also have the ability to skirmish (javelins).. Another will be the Chaeonian Guard.. a specialized pike unit with increased mobility (at the expense of armor and melee ratings). Pyrrhus will also be able to call on various Hoplites both Italian and Greek.. and of course he will also possess the "Lucanian Oxen"... aka Elephants..

alogic
09-04-2004, 06:39
Bactrian Army List has been updated.... see page two of this thread

alogic
09-04-2004, 21:04
Placeholder... will update later
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=18044
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18048
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18049


In Diadoch, pike formations will be very large (180 men/per unit).. I believe this will allow them a greater variety of formations... Here are some brief examples showing their use..

Standard formation: 20 wide / 9 deep
For use against other Pike (Pk) formations as well as most infantry types.. good all around formation. Allows 6 ranks support / 3 ranks reserve

Standard II formation: 18 wide / 10 deep
Slight variation of above, typically used against slightly stronger enemy Pike. ie your Regulars facing enemy Veterans. Allows for an extra row of reserves.

Heavy formation: 15 wide / 12 deep
6 ranks support / 6 ranks reserve

Heavy II formation: 12 wide / 15 deep
6 ranks support / 9 ranks reserve

Light Formation: 30 wide / 6 deep
6 ranks support / 0 ranks reserve

Light II Formation: 36 wide / 5 deep
5 ranks support / 0 ranks reserve

Flank Formation: 45 wide / 4 deep
4 ranks support / No reserves

Flank II Formation: 60 wide / 3 deep
3 ranks support / No reserves




I.Creating a Flank Attack opportunity

Lets say you are facing an enemy that is a mirror image of your own army.. for this example we'll say you each have 3 Pike Units (Regular).. Pike units typically line up in their standard formation (20 wide / 9 deep).. Let's say the enemy lines his units up side by side in this formation.. He thus has a total frontage of 60 men.. To create a flank.. Line up your units with two in the front and one in reserve.. Your front two units should be side by side in the Light Formation.. This will give you an equal frontage of 60 men and you will be able to fight at full strength initially... though you will not have reserves.. When your armies meet the enemy you will be able to tie up his entire force with just two of your units.. this will allow the third unit to manuever around the enemies flank.. and viola..

II.Facing off against Cavalry dependent armies
Armies with large cavalry contingents typically will need to exploit their rivals flanks in order to gain a victory.. One way for a Pike heavy army to defend against this.. is to adopt a lighter formation.. this will give your army an extended battle line.. Since Pikes recieve a bonus when fighting against mounted units they really don't need all the support from the thicker formations.. A Pike formation that is 4 deep (flank formation) can still defeat most cavalry (frontally) and will more than double your front line.. ex. 8 pikes in standard formation = a 160 man front.... 8 pikes in flank formation = 360 man front...

Silver Rusher
09-04-2004, 21:11
I don't mean to flame, this sounds like a really good idea, but has anybody noticed that the only person ever to post in here is the creator himself?

Marshal Murat
09-04-2004, 22:31
Well, he hasn't given us any specific info, needs, etc.

ForgottenImmortal
09-04-2004, 23:36
I visit here alot, although I never post.

I am an amateur historian of sorts and pretty good with photoshop, this looks like a great mod and would love to be of any assistance.

I would love to play this mod, the Hellenic Total War mod was superb, but I'm looking for something classical orientated beyond HTW.

mercian billman
09-05-2004, 00:00
I don't mean to flame, this sounds like a really good idea, but has anybody noticed that the only person ever to post in here is the creator himself?

I've been reading it a lot myself but, lately Alogic hasn't asked anyone for assistance and, seems he's working at a good pace.

How many times do you have to tell someone you like what their doing?

BTW welcome to the forums Forgotten Immortal ~;)

Pericles
09-05-2004, 00:28
I don't mean to flame, this sounds like a really good idea, but has anybody noticed that the only person ever to post in here is the creator himself?

Give it time.

As more work is done and as we see more of this Mod, others will be commenting on it.

Fortunately, alogic has been doing great work, and has been sharing everything with us on almost a daily basis.

I follow his work every day, although I don't post often.

keep it up ~:cheers:

Silver Rusher
09-05-2004, 07:20
Give it time.

As more work is done and as we see more of this Mod, others will be commenting on it.

Fortunately, alogic has been doing great work, and has been sharing everything with us on almost a daily basis.

I follow his work every day, although I don't post often.

keep it up ~:cheers:

Hey, if you need something to use for the 3d graphics go here and download:

http://www.soft32.com/download_20030.html

I'm always happy to help with other mods, I just hope somebody can spend a second to pray for mine. (see signature below)

Crazed Rabbit
09-05-2004, 20:27
This looks to be an awesome mod. I have never seen such a thought out mod at the begining. I will definately keep MTW on my hard drive for this mod!

Crazed Rabbit

alogic
09-05-2004, 22:56
As always.. thank everyone for supporting Diadoch..... Something that I would like to say is that the opinion of Silver Rusher in regards to the lack of outside post in this thread.. is not reflected by myself.. I know I have plenty of support and I can see the interest in my mod by simply looking at the number of views I recieve each day..

I use this thread myself to help keep my thoughts organized ( this is the reason I have so many posts).. instead of simply keeping my notes to myself.. I make them public for everyone to see.. this way everyone can see what I'm up to, as well as, generating interest in the mod itself...

Help.. right now this is a one man show.. I have had this mod in mind for a long time.. I really have a good idea how everything is going to be done.. I may ask later for some help on some things.. but right now everything is running pretty smooth..

As far as a 3d modeling/animating programs goes.. I already have several very good ones that I am quite happy with.. but thanks anyway for the info.

For those of you that are interested in helping with a mod.. I will be starting another mod entitled Rise of Rome... I will allow much more freedom in the decision making for this mod.. I mainly will handle the unit graphics and mod conception... If anyone is interested in being part of this team let me know.. I will begin a separate thread later.. One thing to remember is that Diadoch is my first priority... for more information about Rise of Rome see earlier post in this thread.. (page 3 / middle / marked Rise of..)

Zastrow
09-05-2004, 23:21
Hello, this is ForgottenImmortal, I made a new account because i was having some problems with it.

I would enjoy supplying any historical info you need for a Rise of Rome Mod.

alogic
09-05-2004, 23:25
I will be posting some in game shots of the new Hellenic Pike unit.. this will be the regular Pike phalanx animation used by Epirus, Pontus, Greek Leagues, and Kyrenaica...

Pyrrhus' Pikes bear down on Kyrenaica
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18050
(note: faction banners/emblems will change)

Close up
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18051

Formations
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18049
various pike formations can be viewed near bottom of page 4

Chaeonian Guard: front
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18073

Chaeonian Guard: rear
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18072

Levy Pike:
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18074

**note Chaeonian guard was created simply by applying Epirote faction color to Diadoch style phalanx...

**Levy pike will have a shield..

Zastrow
09-05-2004, 23:56
I can't wait to play at King Phyrrus.

Also, what historical battles are you doing?

alogic
09-06-2004, 02:06
Zastrow.. you are more than welcome to help out with Rise of Rome... I will be starting a new Thread soon just for this new mod..

For others who might be interested in joining the RoR team please post under new thread.. I want to keep Diadoch thread separate.. For those who are interested.. please note that I only plan on supplying units for the game (at this time) and the intial conception.. I have an overall idea how I want the mod to be.. but you guys have the freedom to fill in the details..

I have seen several people whom have created or worked on mods reguarding Rome.. (Fall of Rome.. Centurion) I hope the creators of these might be interested in my offer, if we work together we can produce a stellar game I'm sure..

This will be the last post in this Thread in regards to my Roman mod.. from here on this thread wil be reserved for Diadochi

alogic
09-06-2004, 04:29
More good news... Flip has sent a 3d version of the Boetian style helmet (the one seen on pictures of Alexander's Companion Cav) to me.. as well as a Thracian style helmet.. this is a huge help for my mod as I have been unable to reproduce this helmet (Boetian) on my own....

Thank you Flip

I will begin working it into my models tonight.. may have some initial pics later..

.... ok here is a basic model showing Flips excellent Boetian helmet (this is a cav unit so just imagine the horse for now).. I will work more on this unit later.. right now I am still transfering some of my initial models into MTW..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18088

Pericles
09-06-2004, 16:05
alogic:

Those are great screenshots - those long spears are well done ~:)

Being a modder myself, I have also found it faster to work on mods alone, since a person doesn't have to worry about people leaving, not doing work, etc. . .

Also, it allows you, the creater, to define your own vision for your creation.

Nicely done. . .

alogic
09-07-2004, 05:15
Agreed.. I have a definate vision of how Diadoch should be.. if I had a team.. then inevitably I would end up having to debate and possibly make concessions ~:shock: to please others.. This is quite fine with me in regards to RoR.. but not Diadoch.. she's my baby (so to speak)

With that being said however.. I am also not one to turn down assistance from other modders.. as long as their work fits in with my vision of how Diadoch will be.. That being said.. I may have ascertained some outside assistance with regards to one of the more important aspects of the game.. I cannot disclose anymore info right now.. as nothing is for sure yet.. but I promise.. if things do work out.. there will be a big announcement (literally) ~:idea:

Just going to update everyone on what I'm up to right now.. I am presently at work introducing my Hypaspist model into the MTW environment.. I will definetly post a pic later.. It will most likely just be a standing pose (the easiest to introduce).. but I plan on having the anims for walk/run/charge finished by tommorrow.. then I will work on fight/die anims.. I also need to work out what kind of shield image I am going to use for this guy.. So I will probably just use a dummy shield for tonights pic..

check this post later for link to pic...

ok.. here is how the infopic will look.. color will be faded and name and attributes will be added once it is transfered in game.. this is just an infopic not the model itself yet..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18148

..back again.. well the Hypaspist really didn't look that good in game.. too plain.. this unit will represent an elite Spear (Sp) unit and it just didn't come off looking that way.. Sooo I made some adjustments.. I made this model by combining the Wargames Foundry idea of an Hypaspist and the Dbaol image that I posted above.. the result is this:
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18151

I will now attempt to introduce this fella into the game.. and will see how it looks...

here is the reference image from The Wargames Foundry.. just look for Hypaspist.. http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/WG/WG11.asp

Marshal Murat
09-07-2004, 13:17
Hey Alogic, I would just personally think that the Hyp. wings on the helmet need to be changed to a more "upright" position, not down like its flappings.

If its something else sorry.

Thedevil003
09-07-2004, 20:46
Great mod, can't wait for the final version; talking about that, when will the mod be ready?

alogic
09-08-2004, 09:11
ok I'm back.. sorry for the late post.. I've been out tonight.. I'm feeling pretty good right now.. so probably not much work is going to take place at this moment (if you know what I mean).. just to give a slight update.. last night I attempted to introduce Hypaspist into the game.. no matter how well they looked in my 3d engine environment.. once transfered into MTW.. blah.. really dissappointing.. I tried the original model and a suped up model.. no luck.. neither looked well in-game.. so for the moment the Hypaspist are going to have to wait.. I will be working on Regulars of the Diadoch style pike now.... and will return to Hypaspist at a later date...

alogic
09-10-2004, 02:59
Just a quick update.. I have gotten the Regulars (Diadoch Pike) ready.. and am now transfering them to the game.. this is not a big change.. the regulars use the same model as the veterans.. just a slightly different faction color scheme... will also be taking a look at Galatian models in the game environ.. to see how they look.. like I've stated before.. no matter how great the models look at regular size.. once scaled down to MTW they could look like crap.. so fingers crossed..

discovery1
09-10-2004, 05:22
Looks good. Can't wait to try it, esp considering that I will likely put off buying RTW until some mods are out to fix certain historical problems. Also, hats off to you for your lighting like progress on this mod.

alogic
09-10-2004, 06:02
Thank you for your interest Discovery.. the mod itself is still in its infancy unfortunately.. the models themselves are just a small piece of the overall puzzle.. but I am making progress daily...

Meneldil
09-25-2004, 16:17
Hum, is the mod dead or what ?

Consul Flaminius
09-25-2004, 20:23
Hum, is the mod dead or what ?

"Always check first page of this thread for model updates.. and page two for Faction updates..." :book:

Meneldil
09-25-2004, 20:28
Hum...yeah...
Sorry ~D

After checking the first and second pages, I feel like total dumb.

Pericles
09-29-2004, 01:27
I think this mod is dead - the first two pages were last edited on Sept 6, 2004, and Alogic hasn't made a comment here for 18 days.

same thing with his Rise of Rome mod - nothing there in 18 days either.

dimitrios the samian
09-29-2004, 02:46
Nahh !! I hope not ,, maybe he's just busy in the real world .

Byzantine Prince
01-25-2005, 09:10
After all that work that went into making this I would be really suprised if Alogic gave it all up. He'll back soon. I really want this mod, lol.

JR-
01-25-2005, 13:41
i hope so too, is alogic still around?

Meneldil
01-25-2005, 17:32
He hadn't logged in since October I think, which makes me think he had some problems IRL and isn't able to connect anymore.

I hope it's not a serious issue and that he'll be back soon.

Anyway, I'm currently planning to make a RTW mod about the Diadochi. I'm looking for a skinner who would work for the team (right now, a lot of people allowed me to use their skins, but I think we'd better have a personnal skinner/modeler)

Meneldil
02-13-2005, 22:47
Great news to all people who supported Alogic. He sent me a PM at TWCenter. He's doing alright, but he his limited time does not allow him to work on Diadochi anymore, though he might join Successor Total War team for RTW.

Lord of the Scotts
06-08-2005, 18:44
Non playable or possible additions
12.Illyrians
13.Jewish state
14.Pontic
15.India
16.Libya
17.Medianite
18.Armenian
19.Kyrenaican
20.Bosphorus
This would not be a possible faction, unless you find a way to make them "appear" or if you add mor than one era.The Chanuka(sp) story is FAR into this game, perhaps after it ends.It would be Selusid at the begaining, AND Rome was powerful by that time.

Alexanderofmacedon
09-01-2005, 22:59
An other damn good looking mod for MTW...

I swear to god, I'm getting that game soon...

Iustinus
09-26-2005, 16:12
Hey all!
I was just wondering- does anyone have the incomplete pieces of this mod? If so could anybody (Alogic?) make the incomplete fragments of this mod available somehow? I know it stopped more then a year ago but I am working on a similar mod (I'm nearly done making a map based on the old Mideast map but changing it to this time period- so far I'm making an Alexander campaign- it stretches from Thrace to Northern India and north to the Caspian Sea.)
I'm pretty terrible at making my own units (so far all I've done is taken HTW and other units and changed them/modified them to be different units.) Also, I'm thinking of doing a mod combing all the ancient mods for MTW ever created- I already have all the other known ancient mods and mod pieces.
Thanks!
Justin

Radier
09-26-2005, 18:46
That would be so wonderful! Please, someone give Iustinus the files... ~:cheers:

Turk2
08-11-2007, 11:20
Hello all,

İ know it is an old thread,but i want to let you all know:This Mod is started a new already
but for RTW

Noddy The Beefy Egg
12-26-2008, 03:57
imagedump is now a dead site.

dimitrios the samian
04-25-2016, 10:02
This mod would have been awesome !
Seems it was about 60 to 70% done .
Anyone had any pm's from Alogic ?
cheers