Three Kingdoms(china) mod

[Tama]

Greetings all,

Just wanted to put word out on this mod I'm working on. I've been working on it off and on for awhile since March(IIRC) and finally got to a point where I will want to complete it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Three Kingdoms - Total War

Setting
The setting is during the Three Kingdoms time period of ancient China which occurs just after the fall of the Han Dynasty. You may know it from the KOEI games or the historical chinese fiction novel Sanguo Yan Yi.(Romance of the Three Kingdoms)

Progress
Currently working on setting up a campaign set at the year 200AD just before the 3 kingdoms(Wei/Shu/Wu) emerge. I'm aiming for 3 campaign scenarios.

There will not be any new unit bifs they are beyond my capabilities.(I'm going to re-use what's available) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

But I do have a fully working campaign map done and am now working on factions/units/interface. I'm replacing some of the campaign pieces as well. You can see some screenshots in the link below:

Screenshots Link (http://lquach.uni.cc/tkbb/viewtopic.php?t=4)

200 AD Campaign - The Rise of Cao Cao
Set just before Yuan Shao and Cao Cao Conflict. Liu Bei still in the east and Sun Ce has just passed away leaving Sun Quan as leader.

Factions
Liu Biao
Liu Zhang
Yuan Shao
Zhang Lu
Sun Quan
Cao Cao
Ma Teng
Liu Bei

Units
This is the tough part with hardly any info on the common grunt, Sanguo + KOEI games concentrate on the generals. There isn't much info(translated anyway) on the true history either.

With that in mind I'm thinking of, for unique faction units, associating generals with units.(ie. Guan Yu's Poleaxe Infantry, Xiahou Calvary etc.) Does anyone think that's a bad idea? Or if there are any asian historians here, how about suggesting some unit names.

Here are some common units that all factions have that I'm using:
Spearmen
Crossbowmen
Militia(poleaxe)
Light Infantry(Archer/swords)
Light Calvary
Heavy Calvary
Catapult, Ballista

For mercenaries I will use neihgbouring barbarians, I have set up provinces(prefectures) near their respective barbarians to be able to hire(or build) them. The Huns, Qiang, and Nanman I plan to use in some way.

That's all for now, input is appreciated. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[LordKarolinger]

Screenshots look nice and I think the idea sounds promising. Over at .com there is an excellent thread about Chinese history where someone could help you out

[MiniKiller]

looking sweet

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Hello Tama

You have no idea how glad i'am to see this. A few months ago there was a ROTK mod in development, but it never got past a map. You popping up with this makes us all very happy

However, me, Xiahou Liao and a few other people, have started preparing for a ROTK mod for Rome Total War. We have gathered event pictures, which are bascially paintings of Three Kingdoms events. All very nice. I have a few music clips for the mod. Basically just lots of scattered resources. Ihave 2 people who may help with new unit graphics. One is an extremely skilled artist, theo ther is good with 3d moddeling.
I was thinking maybe mine and your team, could merge and make one for RTW. Or even maybe a Meideval one. That would be pretty cool. I have alot of resources and a few guys with exceptional skills, you have some progress and obvious skill.

How about it m8?

P.S

You said that your biggest problem is units because Koei doesnt concentrate on the units? This is where I could be of help. Me and Xiahou liao plus a few others on tihs board, are amateur historians of the period. We can definitely help. Hell, several people on this board already have good nice unique unit list for a ROTK mod.

[Tama]

The Sword of Cao Cao:

Sounds like a plan, but my entire team comprises just me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I really want to finish this though, and extra help would speed it along.

The campaign map was a pain to deal with and work on a previous mod(that never saw the light of day) helped me a ton. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I'm glad I don't have to deal with it anymore(hopefully).

I was thinking of starting work on a RTW mod as well since the generals thing looks like it will fit in perfectly with RTW's system. But RTW is still awhiles away and modding the campaign looks like it will be fully 3D and more like RTS games.

Anyway should probably get in touch, you can email me or post here or whatever.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Most honourable Tama,

I hail your project as a long-term player and fan of EmperorRotMK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
_

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

To Friend Tama,

Just you? Mate, it would definitely be wise to have a team then Especially with the kind of mod your doing All the major mods have teams dude. HTW's Gerousia, NTW's the Lordz, it's just extremely difficult to do these alone m8.

Sign into yahoo messenger, and we can talk there. My yahoo SN is: therealslimshady232

[Inuyasha12]

Finally someone comes through with a mod on china.
This makes me very happy and i hope the project goes all the way

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-iloveyou.gif

Thank you so much I've been waiting a lifetime for this.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Very nice Tama http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif.

This looks like its going to be a great MOD I was about to offer you help by sending you a link to a website absolutely full with portaits but it looks like you've already found it. Ah well, its all great if it means your nice looking MOD will be out quicker.

Nag

[ParthianWarrior]

Going to include the Indochinese Nations?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Looking good. Nice princesses by the way. Any battle pics? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tama]

ParthianWarrior:

There is one faction called the nanman(they ruled the area known as vietnam today) that is planned for the 2nd or 3rd campaign scenario when they poised a threat to the Shu Kingdom and Zhuge Liang(Kong Ming) pacified them.

The current iteration of the map only includes inner china(no tibet or southeast asia and only part of the steppes) at the moment. I've been contemplating on reworking it, but it would set me back months so I'm going to concentrate on what I have now. I'm trying to get this out before RTW. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia:

Thanks I like them princess too.(they are images of Diao Chan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

As for battle pics they shall come soon, I just finished most of the faction flags for first scenario and am currently sorting out units and other interface assets.

[Xiahou Liao]

If you need help...ask me... Infact, I'm hardcore ROTK fan. I turn away from the Dynasty Warriors series, I only play it with my friends. I don't like the idea of ROTK being plagued by a button-masher. :p

I have RTK1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 and soon to be 10. w00t I want to import 5 though.

Pretty much, you can use me for help if needed

Oh are you going to include the Shan Yue, Xiong Nu, Wuwan, Qiang, and Di?

I think it was Di...bleh, I have to check.

[Julius Caesar]

Looking good so far http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Can you show us battle pics if u can?

[Inuyasha12]

I beleive that princess is Diao-Chan from dynasty warriors/romance of the three kingdoms.
Good work on that

[Xiahou Liao]

They're definately not from Romance of the Three Kingdoms cames man. That has to be from Dynasty Warriors. Diao Chan's only in one or two RTK games. :p and if you meant the novel...well the novel shouldn't be in the same sentence as Dynasty Warriors .

:: Sigh. :: I have a grudge against DW...First thing someone assumes is I play that one. Nooo...I play RTK9 the most. :D

[Tama]

Here are some battle shots, not much to look at other than a couple of the new faction flags.

link (http://lquach.uni.cc/tkbb/viewtopic.php?t=5)

Unit info
Here is some more unit info.

Regular units common to all armies will be prefixed with Chaiguan(sp?) they are the regular army units of the time period and all warlords can build them.

Unique units:

Shu Arbalesters(Liu Bei) - invented by zhuge liang have a rapid firing rate with armor piercing arrowheads.

Luochan(sp?) Infantry(Sun Quan) - also known as Wu naval marines. They have an advantage in coastal/river locales.

Wuhuan Heavy Calvary, Wuhuan Archer Calvary - barbarian wuhuan auxilaries used by Yuan shao.

Qiang and Di Units - Barbarians from the west and north west regions. Similar to Wuhuan units. Qiang have good spear infantry units?(Not sure about that one)

Nanman Units - Barbarians from southeast asia who use rattan armour(snakeskin) which has strong resistance to arrows and is very light. Also known to use poison tipped weapons which cause fear.

Shan Yue Units - These barbarians hale from the mountainous regions of southern china. They have advantage fighting in mountain areas.

Thanks to the Sword of Cao Cao for helping provide info for some of the above units.

If anyone else knows other units that are suitable, (Outside of chariot and elephant units for now if possible as they require new art http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )

Please let me know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Inuyasha12]

Well im a ravid Dynasty warriors player and have never ever touched a Romance of the three kindoms game so my opinion is very biased.

[Maeda Toshiie]

Played RTK 3 and 4 myself. My written chinese sucks enough to prevent me from continuing with the series.

Currently watching the TV series (84 ep PRC production). I will see if there is anything that I can add.

Historically, (we) the Chinese engage in mass infantry battles. If there is something China does not lack in, its population. When killing traitors, the entire clans is massacred.

One thing, how come Liu Bei has so high of a dread?

Troops are split b/w 2 types, standing and raised troops. The standing troops would be better trained and equiped, but probably not as professional as their western counterparts (Roman Legions). The other would be (often hastily) raised troops, usually just before an expedition (Liu Bei vs Lu Xun is an example). These would be the level of peasants.

Here are some common units that all factions have that I'm using:
Spearmen
Crossbowmen
Militia(poleaxe)
Light Infantry(Archer/swords)
Light Calvary
Heavy Calvary
Catapult, Ballista

The halb is the main chinese battlefield weapon, spears only became more common during the later dynasties. However since we need spears to counter cav, they would have to be included.

Heavy cav are the called (tie3 qi2), or armoured mount. They are considered the elite of the army. The light cav or (qing1 qi2), or light mount should be non-elite and lightly armoured.

Another unit type that is needed is the swords (da4 tao1) with shield.

Dong Zhuo entered Luoyang, following the death of He Jin with his Xi Liang troops. In the TV show, those troops dont wear armour. I believe those were impressed into the army from the local tribes.

In the initial clash during the battle of Guan Du, Yuan Shao had some foot archers who hide behind large shields (in the TV show). Idea for pavise units to be added.

Elephants were used by Meng Hou against Zhuge Liang. (Waiting for RTW with its Elephants being inbuilt)

Chariots were used in Spring/Autumn till the end of the Warring States. Thinking of woring on such a mod on RTW as well.

If you include Diao Chan, dont forget Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao and Lady Sun (sister of Sun Quan). The other 2 earlier wifes of Liu Bei can be ignored. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

^ Ay, I and a few friends already started preparing for an ROTK RTW mod. Your more then welcome to help m8.

[Xiahou Liao]

I see how it is I get no credit...Shan Yue, Qiang, and Di were my suggestion. :o

Oh oh, how about Hillmen of the shu kingdom??

Edit: NO YOU CAN'T FORGET HIS EARLIER WIFE


Crap I forgot her name. But she was in a well, and gave Liu Feng to Zhao Yun and basically sacrifaced herself for her son :o

[Maeda Toshiie]

NO YOU CAN'T FORGET HIS EARLIER WIFE


Crap I forgot her name. But she was in a well, and gave Liu Feng to Zhao Yun and basically sacrifaced herself for her son

Gah

Liu Bei had a total of 3 wives. There were initially 2 (when they were married was not known, book never mention). Mi furen committed suicide at the well near changban (to prevent capture and allow Zhao Yun to leave without her). Gan furen died after Liu Bei gained Jing Zhou. Then, with Sun Quan (with Zhou Yu) wanting to get back Jing Zhou (the betrothal was supposed to be a trap, thwarted by Zhuge Liang), Liu Bei got married to Sun Quan's sister.

And its Ah Dou, or Liu Chan who was the baby, not Liu Feng. Liu Feng was another adopted son.

And seeing ghulams being used in the game, cavalry in China then do not use shields at all. Only the infantry do.

I have both the book(s) (in original chinese) and the TV series. If any need for references feel free to ask.

[Tama]

Maeda Toshiie:

Thanks for the info about halberds and other general army stuff. I think halberds give a bonus vs calvary in-game aswell if that's what you meant(or can be set to do so if not already). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Liu bei stats is actually one of the welsh kings, I have not gotten to the point of giving actual stats to kings/heroes. I'm also using vikings expansion as a base so anything out of the ordinary in screenshots is from there and will be replaced gradually. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As for portraits the way they programmed it I may not be able to give everyone the proper portraits/names.(ie. princes take portraits from generals pool, then if they become king they take a new portrait from kings pool) Also assigning actual portraits does not work when using override folders, instead they are randomnly assigned(for me anyway). Lots more problems with the portrait system but I digress.

Also for campaign pieces like the Diao chan I have it is set for all princesses, there is no way to override it to have a random/different one for each princess.(If anyone is wondering the leader unit piece is Yuan Shao)

Xiahou Liao:

I know you mentioned them and glad your are interested but I've played several of the RTK games too and already knew about them. (I own the SNES ones and RTK9 for ps2, also from parts of sanguo I've read and some historical sites) I'm not totally clueless on the histories part.

Originally I was only going to add Wu Huan and nanman but I'm thinking of adding more as merc/auxillaries. Right now all barbarians being a separate faction will be questionable unless I enlarge the area of my map(requires entire new map as I'm near the max height wise already). I'm not even sure if any part of Southern Xiong Nu empire is on the map not to mention the Xianbei(mongols).

Anyway I credited the Sword of Cao Cao since he actually gave me some unit ideas info and some of their attributes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Minor Update on progress
Working on a new skin for the campaign map that looks like the MTW ones.

I've tinkered around with the projectiles system and have come up with flaming arrows + fire rockets(ballista bolt graphic that explodes on contact) as possible projectiles for some infantry units. Not to sure on the fire rockets though although they would be fun and Nanman units would be fearful of em too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Also just a reminder for those of you who may not know, modding for MTW means conforming to its limits since we don't have the source code. A lot of things I'll be doing/forced to do out of convenience even if it's not 100% correct. RTW will be a better platform for a RTK mod assuredly, but until then I have to work with what I have. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Kaiser of Arabia]

oh oh can I help can I can I?
I can set up the heros file, if you want,
and here are some units if you need ideas
INFANTRY:
Footmen (Swordsmen)
Swordsmen
Armored Swordsmen
Elite Armored Swordsmen
Two Handed Swordsmen
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Pikemen
Axemen
Armored Axemen
Elite Axemen
Teng Jia (High Defence Units, only available in South of the Shu Kingdom)
Rangers (High Defence Units, only available in Mountainus Terrain provences)
Marines (Swordsmen with lower defence, but armed with a bow in addition to a decent sword attack, only buildable in Jing)
Nanman Infantry (HIGH attack but next to no defenc and armor only buildable in south of shu)
Imperial Guard (high attack, high defence swordsmen buildable only in Chang An)
CAVALRY:
Horsemen
Armored Horsemen
Cavalry
Armored Cavalry
Scout Cavalry (fast, low attack and defence)
Heavy Armored Cavalry
Mounted Imperial Guard
Nanman Cavalry (Elephants)
ARCHERS:
Bowmen
Armored Bows
Archers
Armored Archers
Crossbows
Heavy Crossbows
Imperial Crossbows
Horse Archers
AGENTS:
Emmisary
Assassin
Spy

Hope I can help...
-Capo

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Quote[/b] (Maeda Toshiie @ July 15 2004,07:52)]NO YOU CAN'T FORGET HIS EARLIER WIFE


Crap I forgot her name. But she was in a well, and gave Liu Feng to Zhao Yun and basically sacrifaced herself for her son

Gah

Liu Bei had a total of 3 wives. There were initially 2 (when they were married was not known, book never mention). Mi furen committed suicide at the well near changban (to prevent capture and allow Zhao Yun to leave without her). Gan furen died after Liu Bei gained Jing Zhou. Then, with Sun Quan (with Zhou Yu) wanting to get back Jing Zhou (the betrothal was supposed to be a trap, thwarted by Zhuge Liang), Liu Bei got married to Sun Quan's sister.

And its Ah Dou, or Liu Chan who was the baby, not Liu Feng. Liu Feng was another adopted son.

And seeing ghulams being used in the game, cavalry in China then do not use shields at all. Only the infantry do.

I have both the book(s) (in original chinese) and the TV series. If any need for references feel free to ask.
Liu Feng was his only adopted son. His other 3 were really screwed up.
BTW,I too have the book, and have read it, great read.
-Capo

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Quote[/b] (Caporegime1984 @ July 15 2004,18:14)]oh oh can I help can I can I?
I can set up the heros file, if you want,
and here are some units if you need ideas
INFANTRY:
Footmen (Swordsmen)
Swordsmen
Armored Swordsmen
Elite Armored Swordsmen
Two Handed Swordsmen
Spearmen
Armored Spearmen
Pikemen
Axemen
Armored Axemen
Elite Axemen
Teng Jia (High Defence Units, only available in South of the Shu Kingdom)
Rangers (High Defence Units, only available in Mountainus Terrain provences)
Marines (Swordsmen with lower defence, but armed with a bow in addition to a decent sword attack, only buildable in Jing)
Nanman Infantry (HIGH attack but next to no defenc and armor only buildable in south of shu)
Imperial Guard (high attack, high defence swordsmen buildable only in Chang An)
CAVALRY:
Horsemen
Armored Horsemen
Cavalry
Armored Cavalry
Scout Cavalry (fast, low attack and defence)
Heavy Armored Cavalry
Mounted Imperial Guard
Nanman Cavalry (Elephants)
ARCHERS:
Bowmen
Armored Bows
Archers
Armored Archers
Crossbows
Heavy Crossbows
Imperial Crossbows
Horse Archers
AGENTS:
Emmisary
Assassin
Spy

Hope I can help...
-Capo
Were looking for more interesting and historical names other than Spearman Footman or Axemen dude. If people wannah elp with units, I suggest knowing a little past the Chinese miltary than just Dynasty Warrioirs or even RTK.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I can only find them known as Spearmen, axemen etc. I'll look it up later tho...
-Capo

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

So Tama any news?

[drunkleszek]

Wow i just stumbled upon this thread. What a coincidence, i was actually reading about this Chinese history concerning the 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' Right now. Was real interesting.

Those photos look real awesome

Well good luck with that. :)

[Tama]

Thx for the comments guys, been busy this weekend so I couldn't work on it much. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Screenshot with faction shields:
link (http://lquach.uni.cc/tkbb/viewtopic.php?t=6)
(no they are not 100% historically accurate and no I'm not changing them till I release something or maybe when I make some new ones) https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Caporegime1984:

Thanks for offer for heroes.txt file, but still not sure if I'm going to use heroes though it's kinda broken for me, no way I can match a portrait to person. So you will get a Zhang Fei with a Guan Yu face. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif I will probably see if I can fix it later when I get more things done.

As for the units, descriptions like what maeda has done would be extremely helpful. Some of your list sounds good though. Maybe you can clear up on the following for me... is Teng Jia the same as rattan armoured nanmen? Rangers the same as shan yue barbs? and marines probably the Wu naval marines I didn't realize they used bows though any chance they are firebows?(I have the perfect unit for it if so)
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

P.S. slowly reading through Sanguo Yan Yi(I've never read it all the way thru before) hopefully some good unit ideas come of it.

P.P.S. Does anyone have the other San guo book(the historical account one)?

[NagatsukaShumi]

There is a way to get certain portraits to fit certain people, however its only viable through the Hero's txt. Look for this line.

//name no. c d p a portrait vnv
1, 1, 3, 3, 5, 5, -1, defender3

As you will see there is a column for portraits, currently it is set to -1 in this example, that means it will use a random portrait. You will notice that in your Portraits their is a misc folder in ever relgion, here are your special portraits. If I put a 1 in to the column it will use misc01 as its portrait for that general and so on, simply put your Zhang Fei's, Lu Bu's and so forth into this folder and number them misc01, misc02 etc.

This should then enable your Generals to have special portraits so they don't get muddled up.

Nag

[bobMtran]

I was under the impression that the area that is now Vietnam was called Giao Chi around 200ad, it wasn't call Annam until the Tang dynasty, ohh yeah, I am Vietnamese so if you need any research on Vietnamese unit, I can help

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Hell bloody yes we need help with the Nanman. Please by all means help If theres one faction I'm having trouble with it's the Nanman.

Contact me on AIM osmetime.

AIM SN: uIMmeikillu

[Disinherited]

Quote[/b] (Tama @ July 19 2004,18:10)]P.S. slowly reading through Sanguo Yan Yi(I've never read it all the way thru before) hopefully some good unit ideas come of it.

P.P.S. Does anyone have the other San guo book(the historical account one)?
The unit info in SGYY will be quite limited. It'll discuss specific, unique units, but nt many are in there.

The historical verion, San Guo Zhi, is doubtful to be in people's hands. Not many people have it, only a few in forums with thousands of members, a lot because it's in Chinese and there are multiple versions (most notable are the Wei and Wu ones for obvious reasons).

either way, I can't wait for this mod Forums should help you, the most popular ones these days are www.the-scholars.com, although www.3kingdoms.net and www.sanguo-online.com are still very busy.

[Disinherited]

To make the links more noticable, SoSZ (www.the-scholars.com), 3k.net (www.3kingdoms.net), and SOC (www.sanguo-online.com).

[Maeda Toshiie]

Just remembered a link sent to me by a friend who is nuts about Sanguo.

If you can read chinese (traditional), this is a good place to go for San Guo Zhi: http://members.shaw.ca/jiuwan2/ThreeKingdoms.htm

Thanks to my language education being in simplified chinese, reading the site is a real pain. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif I cant tell if the whole thing is there or is just the biography.

Anyone who can read traditional chinese comment on the site?

[DeadRunner]

nice mod tama
one more mod to play

~D ~D

[The Scourge]

After Shogun ,my choice would have been a 3 Kingdoms type game.So the best of luck.
I'm really looking forward to it ~:cheers:

[Tama]

hi all,

Haven't posted for awhile, a new job has been keeping me real busy and I haven't done much. Hopefully things slow down so I can work on the mod on the coming weekends.

Things I still need to do before a public release of a 200AD campaign:

Finish painting of new campaign map skin.(~75% done)
Unit line-ups for each faction.(~50% done)
Building line-ups.(~25% done)
Descriptions of units/buildings/factions etc.(~25% done)
Hero/King stuff(~75% done)

I really doubt I'll get this out before Rome: Total War like I originally intended ~:doh: . RTW is due out next month if I remember correctly. When RTW is released I will probably release whatever I do complete on TK and then engross myself in RTW for another bit. ~D

anyways... just a heads up

[axel]

hi all i whase wondering are there any screenshots would like to see them :duel: :charge: