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Silver Rusher
08-30-2004, 20:57
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/748/Citalogo.jpg
Citadel: Total War, a mod for Rome
Your support in any way at all is very, very much appreciated.

After much thought about the original plan for Citadel: Total War, I find it a much better idea to create a mod now covering not only Italy, but all of Europe as well. It will be divided into three periods, each one partly (not fully) reflecting the position at that time. I hope to make good use of the Rome Total War engine, as it allows flexable movements and complex diplomatic agreements.

The Team (your name could be here too!):

The Campaign Map

Silver_Rusher(campaign map, scripting, campaign graphics and founder)
Narayanese (Unit pieces)

Unit Lists/Miscellanious Research

Ignoramus (Research, faction lists, Malta Demo and background research)
Zharakov (Russia research and unit lists) *No longer active*
Celtic Winter(unit coordinator)
Yggdrasill(scripting and unit lists)
Suleiman the Magnificent(research) *No longer active*
Saranalos(historical battles and text editing(credits!, unit stats))

3D Models and Textures

GodsPetMonkey(3D graphics)
Two Roses (Textures) *No longer active*
Narayanese (Textures and banners, interface)
Devercia (Textures)
Shark974 (Textures)

Playtesting

Uesugi Kenshin (Team leader, subforum moderator, head playtester)
Che_87 (Playtesting and bug finding)
Wazikashi (Playtesting and bug finding)
Dark_Shadow89 (Playtesting and bug finding)
Dionysos (Playtesting, bug finding and sound gathering)
Lief (Playtesting and bug finding)
Janissary Karamurat (Playtesting and bug finding)
Withmyspearandmagichelmet!!! (Playtesting and bug finding)
goliath88 (Playtesting and bug finding)
MetalSlug (Playtesting and bug finding)
Two Roses (Playtesting and bug finding)

Special Thanks to:
FEMTO for gathering pictures for the loading screens.

More below

Silver Rusher
08-31-2004, 11:54
The Factions:


http://img44.exs.cx/img44/8718/8e-symbol128_aragon.jpg

Aragonese = Scythians

Castilians = Spain


http://img89.exs.cx/img89/3429/s0xsymbol128danes.jpg

Danes = Pontus


http://img89.exs.cx/img89/2736/o9wsymbol128england.jpg

English = Britannia

French = Gaul

Golden Horde = Egypt

Hapsburgs = Parthians

Hungarians = Armenians

Mamluks = Seleucids

Moors = Thrace


http://img73.exs.cx/img73/5403/a9-symbol128_italy.jpg

Italians = Dacia

Polish = Carthage

Russia = Numidia


http://img73.exs.cx/img73/7581/d4-symbol128_otto.jpg

Turks = Greek Cities

Venetians = Germanians


Papacy = Senate
Knights of St. John = Julii
Knights of the Dragon = Scipii


http://img73.exs.cx/img73/4871/f7-symbol128_teutoni.jpg (this symbol is under construction)

Teutonic Knights = Brutii

Silver Rusher
09-04-2004, 08:11
General Info on the mod: (soon to be updated and provided)

The mod begins in 1402. I believe this is the best era because of all the large numbers of squabbling factions around (unfortunately most had to be cut out due to Rome's limits) and also the fact that uses of weaponry changed so much in that time: guns and cannons being the preffered assault weapon and pikes the preffered defence; with swords now reverting to a position as secondary weapons rather than primary ones. Let's not forget the cavalry, they became much lighter and abandoned armour quite extensively due to the increased usage of gunpowder.

European culture also made a large change during the time; paintings in Italy were becoming very common, which is actually where the period gets the name "Renaissance": literally meaning: "Enlightenment". Architecture took a huge blow in many forms; the Gothic style of architecture came around in the era and fortifications had to improve dramatically to protect the people within from cannons, sometimes even using earth in the walls, as they were cheap and efficiant in stopping cannons from doing their job properly.

This era saw the death pretty much of the Crusaders, thanks to the Ottomans and Polish, as well as most other medieval culture. The modern age of fighting was about to begin.

Silver Rusher
09-06-2004, 20:09
Forum Key: (soon to be updated and provided)

Patricius
09-09-2004, 03:24
Will this be basically Rome Total War modified into Medieval Total War?

Silver Rusher
09-09-2004, 06:45
Well... yes and no. The timeframe will be similar (1402-1600), but I will try to make the units/gameplay/buildings etc. different but still good to play to give people a new game, rather than just playing medieval once again but on a 3d engine.

themonkey
09-09-2004, 20:17
I'll try help on R:TW one 2

saundersag
09-09-2004, 20:37
Hear is what i think the italian armies should focus on in the mod. They should have lots of arqubuisters and handgunners as they were commonly used they were used as the offensive troops in the infantry. Then they heavily relied on heavy cavalry like the conditorri and lanze spetaze. They also had light cavalry however this was still very heavily armoured. For infantry they mainly had spearmen and later pikemen. They did also had halbedirs and billmen however the heavy infantry was meant to absorb the charge of they enemy and to fix their men. They also used a lot of light infantry who had large sheilds but otherwise lightly armoured. The Italians wer very good armourers and at this time comparable to the germans. The milanese were especially famous. However there infantry tended not to wear mail or plate but hardened leather which was effective againts slashes like mail but was veyr prone to things like crossbow bolts. There armies were mercenary and miltita based. This is just to give you some info on the types of armies the italians had.

Silver Rusher
09-09-2004, 20:54
Thank you for that saundersag. The Italians will no longer be the main focus, but I will take that information into account anyway.

themonkey
09-11-2004, 15:32
You know anywhere you can learn modding for rtw?

Silver Rusher
09-11-2004, 15:40
No, it hasn't come out yet, but there is a link to the rtw docs in another thread in this forum, you can check those. They're quite handy.

EDIT: If you want to help also, then it would be quite appreciated if you had a sig similar to mine, with links to the site, forums and guild thread.

themonkey
09-11-2004, 15:46
What are the link's URL's?

Silver Rusher
09-11-2004, 15:59
I'll PM you with an exact copy of my sig.

themonkey
09-16-2004, 19:19
Citadel should not have just the
The Italians but a Few States like Milan and Florence and Genoashowing that Italy was not a united country

saundersag
09-16-2004, 19:29
If you only have a few factions from italy i would suggest milan, (which more or less controlled genoa), venice due to large empire, naples as it controlled most of the south of italy, you could include the pope as he was the pope. Those were the main powers in italy you could also include florence if you wanted to.

Suleimen the Magnificent
09-17-2004, 00:11
I have no skills with modding but if I can be of assistance with the history or stuff like that please let me know.

Silver Rusher
09-18-2004, 12:43
Alright, great! Maybe you could start posting a little about history now?

Saundersag- Genoa was it's one dukedom and Florence, Siena and Modena (the tuscan states) will be included as well.

crazyviking03
09-21-2004, 20:40
The Rennaisance was the first time european armies marched in step to drums. This is a somewhat stupid fact, but should carry over to the bigger fact that the rennaisance saw armies move out of the disorganised madness of the middle ages and into the complex organized machines of the modern era. I own a great book titled "The Rennaisance at War" which goes into great detail as far as organization (numbers, pay, unit sizes, artillery disbursment, etc.) and also talks about the trend of reverting back to classical strategy (armies were now being modeled on Roman legions, as far as discipline, make up, marching camps, etc.)

my two cents

:barrel:

Silver Rusher
09-22-2004, 20:38
Unit Profiles (http://www.freewebs.com/silver-studios/units.htm) and the Uncompleted Tech Tree (http://www.freewebs.com/silver-studios/techtree.pdf) (acrobat plugin needed) are FINALLY here!!! Please note that the Tech Tree is not completed and there are many buildings (mostly faction-specific) which haven't been included. Bare in mind also that the tech tree varies throughout factions, and that the one you see is just the standard version.

If you need to know what the asterisks mean, go to the bottom of the main page (http://www.freewebs.com/silver-studios/).

Silver Rusher
09-25-2004, 21:06
Could you, the general public, please now post feedback on the website, and the information you have so far?

Kaiser of Arabia
09-26-2004, 17:20
Well, I guess I can do unit stats, but i cant do graphics...

Also, since there seem to be no heroes, maybe i can help with names for the royal families?

Also, gimme the word and I can get some good music (not from the period but it would work well and sound cool) like Piano music, classical etc.

I have to see what exactly is mod able in the game, its kinda early to tell.

Kaiser of Arabia
09-26-2004, 17:22
Oh, and for historical battles, i guess the 100 years war would be in there so, battles from them, some of the battles from Macchiavellis the Prince etc.

Silver Rusher
09-26-2004, 19:59
Yes, all included. Finding names for faction leaders would be helpful, too.

Kaiser of Arabia
09-26-2004, 20:34
k, i'll do that sometime soon (i have some essays to write tonight so I cant now, over the week)

Silver Rusher
09-26-2004, 20:47
Alright. When you are done, post them here or in the main forums.

Lord De Moray
10-06-2004, 15:14
Guys have you thought about the possibly of not being able to edit the skeleton/frames, the skins are easy enough but I think you'll find the frames are a no go. That is unless some really bright spark comes up with something! :charge:

Well at least your plan can use the European map also, cause for any American mod I don't think you will be able to change the map as is, these files are CA development software.

Any how I wish you all the very best of luck with your venture.

LoM
www.thelordz.co.uk

Silver Rusher
10-08-2004, 06:47
Guys have you thought about the possibly of not being able to edit the skeleton/frames, the skins are easy enough but I think you'll find the frames are a no go. That is unless some really bright spark comes up with something! :charge:

Well at least your plan can use the European map also, cause for any American mod I don't think you will be able to change the map as is, these files are CA development software.
This is interesting...

CA did say that every thing was moddable

cegorach
10-08-2004, 13:26
@Silver Rusher

Is this list of factions finished ?
If yes it's pretty strange there is no Bohemia ( Hussites had the best army in the XVth century in Central/Eastern Europe) and no Poland-Lithuania, which is really suprising 'cause it is hard to overlook THE LARGEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE AND THE LARGEST CATHOLIC COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
Check any map of Europe at that time m8...
It is strange - even Danes and Russians are here...

Regards Cegorach/Hetman :bow:

Lord De Moray
10-08-2004, 15:12
This is interesting...

CA did say that every thing was moddable

I have a suggestion then, try some sample modding before you make your plans, cause you maybe disapointed!

I do hope soon that there will be some tools on the go at least so the 3d frames can be changed/added to. The map however still seems unchangable. :book:

Cheers

LoM

Kloss
10-10-2004, 08:27
Can I just ask why there is no Poland in the Rennaisance mod? Poland was one of the most powerful nations during the Rennaisance periods and fought many enemys at the same time including Turks , Tartars, Cossacks, Sweds, and Russians.

Silver Rusher
10-10-2004, 09:39
Can I just ask why there is no Poland in the Rennaisance mod? Poland was one of the most powerful nations during the Rennaisance periods and fought many enemys at the same time including Turks , Tartars, Cossacks, Sweds, and Russians.
No POLAND??? Sorry, lemme just fix that...

There was always meant to be a Poland, I just forgot to put them on the list. I'll put the Bohemians on as well, if you want.

Kaiser of Arabia
10-10-2004, 15:14
Looks good.
I think, if you need me to, I can do the little Faction Icons. I'm still trying to figure out how to add units.

Silver Rusher
10-10-2004, 16:01
Oh, that reminds me. I'm about to start making the graphics, trouble is I can't get the DDS plugin to work. The first screenshots should be ready fairly soon.

Keep an eye on this thread for the next few days...

Kloss
10-11-2004, 07:40
No POLAND??? Sorry, lemme just fix that...
Not a problem. I reckon its real good that your undertaking this mod. ~:)
I love the rennaissance period and all the warfare in it. Currently I think it would be easier to leave the nations as is and not worry about Bohemia (havent heard of it before ~:confused: ) I think a smaller, more basic list would be the go as it would be easier, and then add extra nations later on
Keep up the good work ~D
Kloss

Kloss
10-11-2004, 07:45
BTW forgot to mention the game Cossacks. It could help you with units etc. I had this Miniature Wargames magazine lying around but I seem to have lost it. It had a great article on Jan Sobieski and the Polish art of war. It had basiclly all the units used with plenty of background info. This magazine was issue 250 and Im kicking myself that ive lost it :embarassed: Since I live down under (australia) its gona be a pain to get a back issue from UK.

Silver Rusher
10-11-2004, 07:50
Currently I think it would be easier to leave the nations as is and not worry about Bohemia (havent heard of it before ~:confused: )

Yeah, I really didn't get it when people complained about the lack of Bohemia either. ~:confused: Do you want to help with all history on the mod? Or do you have any modding skill?

Kloss
10-11-2004, 11:10
I could try to help you with the history part as best I can Silver Rusher, but I cant say that I have a wealth of knowledge about that period. I mainly know about Poland during the rennaissance period. As with my modding skill, well I havent had any experiece If I had a set of detailed intructions I could prolly do something ~D

cegorach
10-11-2004, 11:49
and not worry about Bohemia (havent heard of it before ~:confused: )

'Czechy' in Polish :bow:

BTW - if you need a XVI-XVII mod, please try the thread in the Engineers Guild ~D

Silver Rusher
10-11-2004, 13:44
Is there anybody interested in the mod who can skin? We badly need skinners.

cegorach
10-12-2004, 10:02
@Silver Rusher

"Yeah, I really didn't get it when people complained about the lack of Bohemia either."

Well.. I could propose some additional factions, also quite importand - German states, Balcan factions etc.
But this is your mod, anyway.

I hope that RTW ( or MTW 2) will allow adding more units, because selecting only 256 was really difficult in the P&M TW ( XVI-XVII mod) -
I have data for more than 300.

So good luck with creating your own list.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman ~;)

Silver Rusher
10-12-2004, 12:58
@Silver Rusher

"Yeah, I really didn't get it when people complained about the lack of Bohemia either."

Well.. I could propose some additional factions, also quite importand - German states, Balcan factions etc.
But this is your mod, anyway.
Now, the thing about having loads and loads of factions is that you don't know where to start when you play the game. This was fixed in rome by having only 3 roman factions playable at the start. I am doing the same, only there is a slightly wider range of factions to choose from here.

About the unit limit, I have heard that in RTW there is a limit of 300 units. A bit better, and I think it'll do, but it is rumoured that more will be added soon.

WarHawk
10-16-2004, 07:05
How about some of the individual German states at the time? Like Prussia.

Silver Rusher
10-16-2004, 07:52
Arg, I'm sorry, but there's probably even too many factions as it is.

chinaboy71
10-17-2004, 09:44
Well lets see here. This sounds really cool to me. I think I would be interested, however. I cant do graphics. I would like to help you with possibly storylines. The actual principles of the game. Um just send me an email or whatever. Or just reply to this thread because Ill start to check it. Im not really sure about how all the mapping works anyways. So as soon as I get some information on limitations, or confirmation whether you need someone else or not. Then Ill just brainstorm in the mean time. Shanks.

Silver Rusher
10-17-2004, 10:06
Well lets see here. This sounds really cool to me. I think I would be interested, however. I cant do graphics. I would like to help you with possibly storylines. The actual principles of the game. Um just send me an email or whatever. Or just reply to this thread because Ill start to check it. Im not really sure about how all the mapping works anyways. So as soon as I get some information on limitations, or confirmation whether you need someone else or not. Then Ill just brainstorm in the mean time. Shanks.
Do you have any scripting ability? Because we mostly need scripters, voices and graphics. Or, maybe you could do voices... What kind of accent do you have?

Kaiser of Arabia
10-17-2004, 16:46
Ok, every coding I have tried barringchanging unit types on the campaign map has failed miserably. I may still suceed though. I'll try to see what I can do.

Silver Rusher
10-19-2004, 20:20
Ok, every coding I have tried barringchanging unit types on the campaign map has failed miserably. I may still suceed though. I'll try to see what I can do.
Me too. ~:cheers:
Learning to mod a new game is hard. I don't have a clue about how I got on so well with MTW.

chinaboy71
10-21-2004, 13:34
Do you have any scripting ability? Because we mostly need scripters, voices and graphics. Or, maybe you could do voices... What kind of accent do you have?Umm..Okay lets see here. Scripting. If that means can I make short paragraphs that sound attractive, surely. Also Ill do accents if you want. I have a mic its just that I need a program to record them. Or I probably already have them it's just that I don't know where it is. Anyways my accent. Im actually from the NY. Its just that I moved to China recently. I'd be willing to do what is within my abilities. Just guide me and give me my mission. Shanks

chinaboy71
10-21-2004, 13:38
Yeah okay sorry. I copied what you wrote so I could remember what I was talking about. Then I forgot to delete it. Heres what I meant to say
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Umm..Okay lets see here. Scripting. If that means can I make short paragraphs that sound attractive, surely. Also I'll do accents if you want. I have a microphone. It's just that I need a program to record them. Or I probably already have them it's just that I don't know where it is. Anyways my accent. I'm actually from the NY. It's just that I moved to China recently. I'd be willing to do what is within my abilities. Just guide me and give me my mission. Shanks.

themonkey
10-21-2004, 19:00
Rusher i thought i'd saw that when i was looking at the menu files in saw at vaul like this:
[UIP_STRAT_ED] Open Campiagn Editor

I wonder what this is?

Celtic_Winter
10-22-2004, 00:18
Hey Guys,
I am from Italy and I can probably provide you some help about the Italian factions, so if you need help let me know ~:cheers:

Silver Rusher
10-22-2004, 08:48
Hey Guys,
I am from Italy and I can probably provide you some help about the Italian factions, so if you need help let me know ~:cheers:
Good, thanks!

I'll update the members list.

vonZipper
10-22-2004, 16:30
It seems you're mainly focusing on the XVth century as far as units goes. To move into the XVIth century there seems to be a lot missing such as:

Landsknechts, Pikes, arq, halberds, etc...
Genitors
Jinetes
Swiss Pikemen, Arq etc...
Reiters and other pistol armed cavalry
Flemish Pikemen
Condottiere cavalry
Spanish sword and bucklers
(I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch)
And a host of new Artillery

also the Flemish might make a good early mid faction.

All in all I would love to see a Renaissance mod as it's one of my favorite periods, so I hope that this all comes together. Keep up the good work!

Silver Rusher
10-22-2004, 17:00
These are all gonna be in there, they just aren't on the list yet. Don't worry about it. (pikes, muskerts and artillery are quite a strong point in this mod) Oh, and welcome to the ORG.

Celtic_Winter
10-22-2004, 19:07
Alright great, just let me know what type of things you are looking for or need and I will gladly provide all the help I can give.

Silver Rusher
10-22-2004, 19:23
Can you make unit textures?

Celtic_Winter
10-22-2004, 23:00
Can you make unit textures?
I have experience making unit textures for other games, but I never tried with Rome Total war so far.

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 08:10
It's not hard to learn, really. Just follow the guide make by DJ in the RTW Guides forum.

Thank you soooooo much. It's like I've been looking for another texturer since the dawn of time!

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 09:37
Final Faction List Done

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 10:37
Russian Spear Drujina:
(Are not completed yet)

http://www.twow.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=83007
http://www.twow.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=83005

teuton knights:
(Simply sketch... Are not completed.)
http://www.twow.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=81499

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 14:08
Hrmm, I am learning Russian but I can read barely any and the links take me to a login page. Maybe a translation? Or if they are pictures, could you put them in here for me? Thanks.

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 14:20
Some possible mercs:

Condotierri (northern Italy)
Alpine foresters (alps)
Swiss mercenary pikemen (alps)
Mercenary Arquebusiers (most of the world)

Could textures please be made for these, anybody involved in the mod?

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 14:44
Silver Rusher
I am sorry.
I have made post, but then has understood, that you can not see the images if not loged on a forum...
I can not correct post. I can not remove it and I can not attach images here...
:embarassed:

Please remove my post.
I shall try to give you the link to the image later

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 14:48
I can't remove your post, I'm not a mod, but if you just maybe put the image on image shack (www.imageshack.us) and give me a link.

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 15:13
Thanks.
I am not sure, as far as they will approach you... Though Russian army looked so rather long...
With what year yours Mod begins?

http://img89.exs.cx/img89/8561/Skreen93.jpg
http://img89.exs.cx/img89/9529/Skreen85.jpg

http://img89.exs.cx/img89/7534/Skreen80.jpg

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 15:18
WOWEE!!! was it you or the people on that forum that made these?

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 15:24
It is mine.
I want to make a correct flag - bearer. Correct flags.
Some more kinds infantry and horse worriors...
And I hope to make Teuton order...

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 15:24
Wow, brilliant, would you like to join the team?

The game starts in the early period at around 1400, ends around 1550.

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 15:36
I like a dark middle ages and epoch of vikings more...
But I shall anyway make the East Europe cavalry (including Polish winged hussars, ukrainian cossakc and starhsina...), Russian army (strelecs, ratniks, new order polks), and as European riders...
The majority of them get in the final period yours Mod

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 15:38
Cool, thanks! How about some mongol units as well?

Sad Ronin
10-23-2004, 15:43
An Tatars?)
Can be.
Even most likely.
Besides they are very similar on scythian and sarmatian...))

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 15:46
Yeah, but I want to let them have elephants from india and camels from the Gobi, even though those things can't really be trained on the map.

Silver Rusher
10-23-2004, 15:58
Could you please send a PM with those skins please? If you register to the CTW forums you can send pms with attachments.

chinaboy71
10-25-2004, 13:46
Hey Rusher. I take it that im not needed. I didnt see any reply to my statement. So thats how I interpret it. If you have a different opinion tell me. Other wise Ill just assume the former.

Celtic_Winter
10-25-2004, 20:11
It's not hard to learn, really. Just follow the guide make by DJ in the RTW Guides forum.

Thank you soooooo much. It's like I've been looking for another texturer since the dawn of time!
I will try sometime early this week. I am on exam week, I am sure some of you lads know how that goes!

Silver Rusher
10-25-2004, 20:25
Oh yeah, Chinaboy, sorry bout that. You can script, I'll pm you when I need you to do something, thanks for the offer. Some screenies of swiss pikes coming, unfortunately they look pretty much wrong now because of their using of the Pontic Bronze Shield Pikemen model.

And CW, I appreciate you helping with the skins, thanks.

I'm just gonna edit this now and put in the SPs.

http://img58.exs.cx/img58/8434/10704.jpg

Duke John
10-27-2004, 10:55
Good luck with your new forum, may it be the source of many good things to come! :medievalcheers:

Silver Rusher
10-27-2004, 11:39
Ah, thank you my lord!

Good luck with Sengoku Jidai.

commieanarko1986
10-27-2004, 23:14
I don't know if anyone else brought this up before, but if you have poland and russia, what about the cossacks, namely the Zaporozhians? the first cossacks are said to have appeared around the 1300s and 1400s. by the beginning of the 1600s, the Zaporozhians were beggining to get to their peak. Also Poland, Russia, the Turks, and Tartars all viewed them as a rather major opponent. You could put them in with three territories, left bank of the Dnieper (Left Bank Ukraine), Right Bank of the Dnieper (Right bank of the Ukraine), and the Sich

Silver Rusher
10-28-2004, 08:04
Maybe... but I think they will have to be limited to the Late era, there are not enough factions there and too many factions in the other eras.

cegorach
10-28-2004, 10:59
I like a dark middle ages and epoch of vikings more...
But I shall anyway make the East Europe cavalry (including Polish winged hussars, ukrainian cossakc and starhsina...), Russian army (strelecs, ratniks, new order polks), and as European riders...
The majority of them get in the final period yours Mod

Polish Husaria ( Winged Hussars) appeared around 1577, so after the timeframe of this mod, of course you always can extend it, but how far.

Anyway when beta release of XVI-XVII ( P&M TW) is finished we will place our own thread here, we have already found almost all of sources necessary to do this, so I believe you will have rivals this way. ~;)

Belisarivs
11-01-2004, 18:42
No POLAND??? Sorry, lemme just fix that...

There was always meant to be a Poland, I just forgot to put them on the list. I'll put the Bohemians on as well, if you want.

Nice to hear about Bohemians in RTW. I can help you a bit, but as I study at the university I won't have lot of time.

If you wish you can contact me at v.pelcak@post.cz. Could you specify parameters of your mailbox? I need it, because some loosers have it in Hotmail and from that reason I can't send them larger files (I mean more than 1 MB) as I want to send you my addon to Wes Whitakers mod to MTW with Bohemians if you wish (it has 1,4 MB size).

About that skinning, I could help you, but I don't know what does it mean because I don't have RTW, yet. I think that it is creation of textures for units, but I might be mistaken. Could you send me some info?
Bye.

Silver Rusher
11-04-2004, 22:10
Nice to hear about Bohemians in RTW. I can help you a bit, but as I study at the university I won't have lot of time.

If you wish you can contact me at v.pelcak@post.cz. Could you specify parameters of your mailbox? I need it, because some loosers have it in Hotmail and from that reason I can't send them larger files (I mean more than 1 MB) as I want to send you my addon to Wes Whitakers mod to MTW with Bohemians if you wish (it has 1,4 MB size).

About that skinning, I could help you, but I don't know what does it mean because I don't have RTW, yet. I think that it is creation of textures for units, but I might be mistaken. Could you send me some info?
Bye.
All help is accepted, thanks.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-07-2004, 04:44
How far along is it? It looks great!

Silver Rusher
11-07-2004, 08:25
Not very far unfortunately. It looks like this project is going to be running for a pretty long time without more members.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-08-2004, 04:41
That sucks....

Do you need any unskilled work done? Such as research or web searching?

Belisarivs
11-08-2004, 11:16
All help is accepted, thanks.
Could you answer my questions please (no offense intended, just want to know it).

Good luck

Silver Rusher
11-08-2004, 21:27
Yes, sorry. If you go to Guides, Tutorials and Tools Duke John made a good guide on this.

themonkey
11-09-2004, 22:09
I'd like to hepl on skinning but i can't get those god damn DS plugins to work :hide: :hide:

Speiz_Bankurt
11-10-2004, 14:51
How about making Hungarian Hussars in this mod. I beleive it was in this period that this unit started getting popular in the military and served as mercs all over europe. Even passed it on to the Polish who seem to think they invented them ~D . Originally hussars were serbian mercs in medieval hungary but cought on with the hungarians so much that hussars became the most popular unit type.

Hungarian hussars were equiped with a lance, sabre, and battle axe (long handle so it could be used from horseback). They were a metal helmet, chainmail, and a long coat over it. They used sheilds but after mid 16th century they abandoned them as it slowed them down.

I found a site with lots of pictures in background. The site is in Hungarian but if someone decides to make this unit the pictures could be useful.

http://www.magyarhuszar.hu/huszar.htm

Cheers!

cegorach
11-10-2004, 17:51
[QUOTE=Speiz_Bankurt]How about making Hungarian Hussars in this mod. I beleive it was in this period that this unit started getting popular in the military and served as mercs all over europe. Even passed it on to the Polish who seem to think they invented them ~D .


We don't thinks so I believe. But in Poland Hussars were quite different - Winged Hussars and these were unique to Poland.
Anyway it is much thanks to the Hungarian prince Stephen Bathory who was one of the best kings in Polish history, but you should know that 'Poles and Hungarians are like brothers, in fighting and in drinking'.

Anyway try my/our mod as well. Hungarian army is one of my biggest problems, especially names in Hungarian. If you are interested please conntact me by a PM.

Our mod is for MTW so shouldn't worry anyone out here in this thread.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman ~;)

Speiz_Bankurt
11-11-2004, 08:37
Cegorach, I know, you're right. Poles and Hungarians have always been close. Seriously speaking though polish hussaria probably developed simultaniously and independantly of the Hungarian. It's just that the Hungarians got some early exposure to the rest of the world through the Austrians and Germans who absolutely loved using Hungarian Hussars. Many generals wouldn't even start a campaign without having some in their armies. It would be a pitty to leave them out of this mod!
One thing I don't understand though is the name hussar itself. I mean Hussar and Hussaria sound so similar yet are so different.

zelda12
11-13-2004, 23:29
Wotcha Silver,
Tried to get onto your main page but the thing didn't work. Got the 404 error thing. I'd be happy to help on the research level. Mainly around the late 16th early 17th century is where my interest lies though.

Heres my first offering to your unit lists.

Finnish Cavalry (not sure on the exact terminology)
These were soldiers recruited by their Swedish overlords during the 30 years war and before. Carrying their wheel lock pistols and sabers. Despite having smaller horses than their mainland couterparts these horsemen have become one of the most feared cavalry forces of the time. Their bloodthirsty nature fearless approach and the tendency to not take prisoners makes them a truly terrifying unit to face. Their battle cry was, Haakka päälle! Or, Hack them down!

They can be classed as light cavalry and put in in the later part of the game. Also we could ask massa to do the voice over and battle cry. seeing as he is Finnish. ~:)

Hope it helps. If you want more info PM me and I'll have a look.

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 08:40
Cool idea zelda.

Is Massa even registered over here though?

zelda12
11-14-2004, 12:58
Yep he relocated over here after he gat banned but when reinstated he went back to the .commie. He also has the worst record for answering PMs at the .commie as atested by Theo and various others. If you like I'll leave post over at the .commie asking him to pop over.

massamuusi
11-14-2004, 15:49
That's because no one ever pm's me!

I do occasionally check in here, mostly I check the mods, since this is one of the two big modding communities. I don't post here almost at all, though, lazy and there's little that I can help with.

But I will try to get you some war cries and other shouts you might need, I'll try to get some 3-4 other people do them as well, so that you can have at least some choice. And don't worry, I'm not going to ask little kids do them. I'll try to contact some choir as well, but can't promise anything. Although, if I could manage to do that, they sure could get you some good ass warcries... Though, this will be very hard to arrange. I will post progress updates, expect the first progress update on friday, since there'll be some time wasted in the exchange of mail with people and trying to talk people over.
I'm sure you can find pretty good books about 'hakkapeliitta' in english, so I shouldn't need to help with that side, though finland is not on the map so you won't be needing much info about them, on the other hand, you'll have to make province sweden make up the profit of the areas left outside, that is, the profits of northern sweden and southern finland, if you want sweden to be playable, because otherwise it would suffer unfair weakening.
The swedes also had some finnish infantry, but since they were so similar to swedish infantry there's no reason to make them an individual unit, since they weren't really treated like that anyway.

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 16:16
Hi massa,

Finland will be on the map, don't worry. One of the main goals of this mod is to expand the map north. It would be great if you could do all of the Scandinavian/Danish voices rather than just Finnish, maybe even some Russian voices aswell. (we'll see on that one) I may (and hopefully) be able to get some books on the north during this time as well. Then again, that's part of what the internet is there for! ~D

Cheers,
Silver Rusher

massamuusi
11-14-2004, 16:19
There will be credits for the voice actors, I believe? I just wrote a mail to 'polytechnic choir' and kinda promised they will have their names on the credits if they should accept to do the voice overs for hakkapeliittas.
I can look for the other voices as well. But like said, I have no idea if I can manage to get an actual choir to make them or if they will be of worse quality.

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 16:29
I think that there will be credits- even if they are just limited to a readme. Everyone will be in the credits, from scripters to voice actors, and just, well, everyone who took part in the mod.

massamuusi
11-14-2004, 16:34
I would also need a list of the commands in english.

I will also need to find out which commands were issued in swedish and which in finnish etc. Well, we all know they shouted their warcry in finnish, that's a start. There are many choirs, and I am kinda hoping at least one of them would have some people interested making the voices for free, I should also ask if they can do swedish and russian voices, since I believe that people who use their voice for living should have some skill in other languages.
Well, we'll see just how much interest there will be. It'll take days I guess to get a confirmation and so on.

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 16:49
Right then,

Commands... OK, for the sake of realism we need to have all commands translated, if it is actually possible.

"Yes my lord" (do this about ten different times, changing what actual words are used like "What do you wish?" and that kind of stuff)
"We cannot march further sir"
"CHARGE!!!"
"HALT!!!"
"Light your arrows!"
"Extinguish your arrows!"
"ATTACK!!!"

I think that should just about do it for now.

And yes, it would be great if you just use one set for all Scandinavians, and if you could do another set for Russians that would be brilliant.
"

massamuusi
11-14-2004, 17:06
Ok, I will see to what I can get done. Right now it's a waiting day for a few days, for you. I'm expecting this thing to take about 1-2 weeks. At least I hope it won't take much longer.

"CHARGE!!!"
"HALT!!!"
"Light your arrows!"
"Extinguish your arrows!"
"ATTACK!!!"

hmm, I believe there were more, dunno. Hakkapeliitta will have their very own charge order. Not sure of the other units. I will contact my history teacher tomorrow and ask for sources. I will also ask our music teacher for where I could get voices done free of charge, especially important for the swedish voice act, and the possible danish&norwegian.
Danes and norwegians were same country back then, danish and swedish is somewhat different, and so is norwegian, I will have to find out how the danish norwegian troops spoke as well. A norwegian should be able to understand danish commands relatively well, but I don't know if that's authentic.
Well, working on it. Done todays work, continues tomorrow.

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 17:24
Yes, well I can't remember any other command replies now. I'll put up a resource thread for all the voice actors soon, which will contain the entire list.

wilpuri
11-14-2004, 22:52
There will be credits for the voice actors, I believe? I just wrote a mail to 'polytechnic choir'

Teekkarit hakkapeliittoina. Mielenkiintoista ~D

Silver Rusher
11-14-2004, 23:03
???

Are you volunteering, or what?

Uesugi Kenshin
11-15-2004, 04:42
Are you guys going to have an end point for the campaign, because oe of my only major problems with medieval was that the campaign ended too soon sometimes, it would just be nice even if you do not add units for those time periods or anything.

cegorach
11-15-2004, 11:19
Cegorach, I know, you're right. Poles and Hungarians have always been close. Seriously speaking though polish hussaria probably developed simultaniously and independantly of the Hungarian. It's just that the Hungarians got some early exposure to the rest of the world through the Austrians and Germans who absolutely loved using Hungarian Hussars. Many generals wouldn't even start a campaign without having some in their armies. It would be a pitty to leave them out of this mod!
One thing I don't understand though is the name hussar itself. I mean Hussar and Hussaria sound so similar yet are so different.





You are right that Hungarian and Polish Hussars have the same origin. Probably to the mid-XVIth century these were very similar.
Only later on things are more complicated. From around 1575 Polish Husaria became the cavalry which was so famous later, acquired the 'wings' for example.
From this time Polish Husaria was quite heavy whereas Hungarian Hussars was becoming light cavalry which it was in the XVIIIth century and later.
I can also add that in 1775 Polish Hussars were reformed as lancer cavalry the ancestor or so famous Polish Lancers.

I believe that the Hungarian unit should be in this mod Citadel TW.

You should help these guys Speiz_Bankurt with this.

If you want to help with other mod as well ( Pike & Musket TW) please drop in to MTW/Engineer's Guild. I need some help with names in Hungarian. I don't know this language at all and we are using names in National languages whenever possible. We have names in Tatar, Romanian, Swedish, Finnish, Italian, German, even in Georgian, but not in Hungarian, unfortunatelly.
Only basic info is what we need, but if you want to add more that is even better.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman ~;)

Silver Rusher
11-15-2004, 12:42
Polish and Hungarian hussars are to be included...

However, the Polish Hussars are going to be heavier than Hungarian Hussars and the Polish can eventually get winged Hussars, which are better than both.

massamuusi
11-16-2004, 11:53
Uesugi, the end date for a campaign is easily edited from the files... the file that has all the provinces and factions etc... damn, what was that folder again, I'm busy I'll edit it here later.

Silver Rusher
11-16-2004, 20:42
That's for MTW. The folder is campmap/startpos. However, this is an RTW mod, and the system is different.

massamuusi
11-16-2004, 22:54
For the campaign it is easy to edit. Don't know for campaign. I don't think it's much writing to have two three different versions, one has 1570, one has 1700 and one has 2500? Just for example.

C:\Pelit\Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_strat.txt



; Custom campaign script generated by Romans Campaign Map Editor

campaign imperial_campaign
playable
romans_julii
romans_brutii
romans_scipii
egypt
seleucid
carthage
parthia
gauls
germans
greek_cities
romans_senate
macedon
pontus
armenia
dacia
scythia
spain
thrace
numidia
britons
end
unlockable

end
nonplayable

slave
end


start_date -270 summer
end_date 1400 summer

Uesugi Kenshin
11-17-2004, 05:07
K I trust you guys, this mod sounds great. OH! One more question, are you guys going to include Jannisary heavys with crazy hooked polearms for Turkey? If you are wonderign about their accuracy at some point I don't remember when but I saw mention of that sort of infantry being used by them. If you need anyone to research anything especially Turkey just ask!

massamuusi
11-17-2004, 15:15
Afaik anyone is free to give input. I don't think they came up with it from nothing when they made MTW.
Besides, it was on the unit list on the first page, armoured janissary infantry.
I don't know much at all about turkish history... ~:confused:

zelda12
11-17-2004, 17:31
Well I went to bed last night with an encyclopedia of warfare I found at the library. One of the main things I found was the changing of tactics to suit the changing of weapons brought on by the obset of gun powder.

One of the things I noticed was the heavy reliance upon mercenaries by all nation apart from the ottoman Empire who had one of the only tru standing armies. Is there a way we can make mercenaries cheaper and more prevelant for the factions.

I also found out a little about the changing tactics of Cavalry. I just want to say its boring and spiritless. With the onset of Muskets and Pike formations cavalry tactics changed dramaticaly. From the wild charge they instead drew pistols and shot at each other like the Arbequesiers, one row fired then another took its place fired went to the back and reloaded, another row took its place fired... The first cavalry to break lost and the other group pursued them, it was called the Caricole.

Cavalry only did this and persuit untill Gustavus Adolphus reintorduced Cavalry shock tactics in the early 17th century which he learnt during his campaigns in Poland and Russia. I'm thinking its gonna be a right bitch to implement in the game.

massamuusi
11-17-2004, 19:07
a random demographic stat I came up with
1720 finlands population is 300000 and swedens 1.5 million. Since then the agricultural reforms make the population double within some 40-50 years time, and continue very rapid increase.

and a gossip- Gustavus III wasn't the father of his child. Instead, the father was most likely his royal head of the stables... It was said that Gustavus III enjoyed the company of women but didn't show any *ahem* interest to them. "hey buddy, could you cover me for a while here, I seriously couldn't care less"

v&v- who's the father? -2 influence due to gossip and disrespect.

zelda12
11-17-2004, 19:55
He should also start with the insanely brave valour. Ergo +2 morale +5 health -1 command.

The tendency to lead insane charges makes him an example to his men and his miraculous survival and numerous wounds make him a lot harder to kill. (Much to his opponents woes.) However this means that he can lose control of command in the melee.

Oh yes another thing. For a speacilist Mercenary units available only as mercs or to the Swiss. Swiss Pikemen and Swiss Guards. The Pikemen are obvious, the guards are specialist units who are used as royal guards like the Pope's. They carry halberds and are ferocious fighters etc. So the Swiss units are basicaly just better variations of the basic Western European plot. Apart from Cavalry.


Oh yeah, one thing. Silver are the Swedes gonna be a playable faction? and are the finnish Cavalry gonna be added to the units list?

Silver Rusher
11-17-2004, 20:18
Cool idea massa. I should put that in somewhere. The finns are not actually in there, but I guess I could make the leader of Finland a rebel family member.

zelda12- That's a good idea, v&v included along with massa's. The Swedes are not gonna be a faction, unfortunately the game limits it to 20 factions, which means there are gonna be many factions not included, including the Swedes. Many want other factions to be included instead, such as the Bohemians, and if I put Swedes in instead it would be a bit unfair. I hope you understand. Finnish cavalry will be in as mercs (but horses not too good)

Uesugi- We can have heavy Jans, no problemo.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-18-2004, 05:00
HUZZAH! Sounds great, can't wait to siege Constantinople in full 3D, who needs to wait until 1453, down with the Europeans!

Speiz_Bankurt
11-18-2004, 06:14
Yes, the polish hussars and winged hussars were heavier than the hungarians, however they were used completely differently, polish were good at one thing the hungarians at another, but it doesn't matter, I don't think you can incorporate such things in a game yet.

Silver Rusher
11-21-2004, 11:44
Ah yes... The Siege of Constantinople.

I am waiting heavily for that as well.

Hey Uesugi, would you be interested in helping with the Historical Battles then? You wouldn't have to do any modding (if you would though that would be great) but just designing the layout, as well as what actual battles there are and their descriptions.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-22-2004, 05:09
Sure, waht do you want me to do? I have no modding experience really. I have no 3dmax or modelling/editing programs of that sort, and I do not own photoshop. But I am really interested in war and historical battles and that kind of thing so if you want me to research anything at all I would be glad to. I can also give suggestions for castle layouts and such if you want. I would be glad to do anything within my abilities to help this great mod.

Silver Rusher
11-22-2004, 08:29
Well, it isn't really hard to learn how to script. If you just delve into C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data and then look through the text files, you can figure out what to do quite easily. You could do historical battles.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-22-2004, 22:04
I will take a look in a few minutes!

kosloski1312
11-22-2004, 22:08
if you need help with Voice Overs i would be happy to help, i could also try my hand at scripting.

Silver Rusher
11-22-2004, 22:18
@Uesugi: Make sure you look through the more important files there, not only in the Data folder but also in the Text folder. Also go to the Guides section of the RTW modding forum.

@kosloski: Voice overs are needed now, contact massamussi about it, he does the Scandinavian voice overs. Welcome to the ORG, I think you'll like it here.

Updated first post.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-23-2004, 03:23
YES SAH!


Have any specific battles you would like me to research or do you just want me to try and find a bunch of interesting ones?


Keep up the fight! ~:cheers:

Uesugi Kenshin
11-23-2004, 03:40
I have posted a thread in the modding subforum in case anyone has any tips on how to mod the Historical Battles but I have found the .txt files and am going to try to change them a bit.... I will see how it goes tonight.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-23-2004, 03:52
I am having error 1607 in installing a version of the game on my computer connected to the net so I am going to need to mod on my other comp with a backup Rome file, I will still take a look at that stuff tonight.


Too many psots tonight.

Saranalos
11-23-2004, 18:29
I would like to help in whatever way I can but im only learning how to mod rtw graphics and everything and 3ds max 7 is kinda hard to use although Im getting there.
:duel:

Silver Rusher
11-23-2004, 21:15
You're learning 3ds max? Brilliant! If you don't know how to now that's OK. What else do you know (or think) you can do?

kosloski1312
11-23-2004, 22:15
i am also learning 3d max i have had a veary small experence with scripting. good luck on the mod.

Silver Rusher
11-23-2004, 22:25
I hope you become brilliant modellers, both of you. Good luck on learning 3ds max, be warned, I know people who use it (and who regrettably have no interest in modding RTW whatsoever) and they tell me it's a long and gruelling process.

Anyway, if you keep at it and we do get good folks to work on the models, I think the mod will come along quite well personally.

zelda12
11-23-2004, 23:01
Funny thing silver, I have a friend who I visited on Saturday. He has 3ds Max and is getting quite good at it. (The guide book he has for it is over a thousand pages.) He asked me about Rome Total war and I endeavoured to give him a look round the .org. He seems very interested in it and was really interested in the modding section. I will endeavour to get him to buy the game. If he shows interest in modding I'll give him a bell if ya want silver.

Silver Rusher
11-23-2004, 23:23
Zelda, that would be great. He would still have to figure out the cas system though, which isn't too hard.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-24-2004, 04:52
I found a great source for historical battles during that time period, I will be looking all of these b attles up on the net and seeing if they are good enough, tell me if any battles strike your fancy.

http://www8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/html/wwp/engl/entr/battles.html

:charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

Silver Rusher
11-24-2004, 09:41
I AM TRIUMPHANT!!!

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~atpc/graphic/map-europe-1402.gif

Silver Rusher
11-24-2004, 09:45
Shows the division of europe at 1402, in case you are wondering.

This is a very interesting map. It is hard to make out what is going on in Italy on this. Remember, this will be used as a general outline but it will not be fully relied upon.

@Uesugi: That's a nice list there. I see a lot of appealing battles. I may later make a long list of historical battles.

Saranalos
11-24-2004, 13:53
Im trying to mod the units in rtw and as soon as I figure that out I could try and help. But do you have to add bones to every little extension you make???

Uesugi Kenshin
11-24-2004, 18:41
Are the Byzantines going to be their own faction or rebels? becasue I believe they basically just held Constantinople at the time. Looks good!

massamuusi
11-24-2004, 21:30
Make them rebels and give them purple colour modeled byzantine troops. This will simulate them historically and open up a slot for a more prominent faction.

Silver Rusher
11-24-2004, 21:42
I think it would be better if they were an actual faction. They would hold the remaining Greek kingdoms as well (I would rather they were not rebel). They wouldn't be purple, I'm not sure that is too accurate, I'm experimenting with an olive colour for the byzantines.

Silver Rusher
11-24-2004, 21:50
And now I have decided to instead give Wallachia over to the Order of the Dragon, and a poll will come up to decide which faction to give the free space to.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-24-2004, 22:42
Thanks for the clarifaction.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-25-2004, 04:37
Just thought of something, Silver Rusher could you post relative amounts of work done on all the different areas, in aproximate percents if possible so people can get a feel for how far the mod is along?

For the historical battles, unless someone else has done some work on them as well I am mainly in the research and conceptual phase. Although I may begin to fool around with some of them to see what effect certain changes in the .txt files have.

Silver Rusher
11-26-2004, 08:28
Look: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38799

I know it's not all that accurate, but meh.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-26-2004, 21:28
Ok thanks, I did not know that you were editing this. Do you know if we can add more historical battles, I think we could and in that case we probably have less than 2% done. I have been having trouble finding time to do research and have not been able to play with files yet, but I am going to try and stay up late researching tonight.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-27-2004, 05:13
I have been researching for about an hour and have a conclusion... I do not know enough to be certain that I am getting all the good battles without looking through them all, I have so far looked at quite a few.

Sliver Rusher Could you please tell me what battles looked good to you, it would make it a lot easier because then I would only have to narrow it down or look for a few more. I can do a lot of the more in depth research, I just need names of battles if that is all right.

pinstripes33
11-27-2004, 05:54
Look cool. I was wondering about vice and virtues and those tag-along guys in RTW. I was wondering if u were just gonna keep them how they were or change them to fit the time period.

Silver Rusher
11-27-2004, 08:55
@pinstripe33: Yes, a lot will be changed, including v&vs. A lot of the v&vs seem to be far more appropriate for the ancient time period.

@Uesugi Kenshin: OK, a few of the battles are;

Constantinople
Agincourt
Furnovo
Tannenburg (sp?)
Vienna
Malta (possibly)

I think you should probably research a few more of these.

pinstripes33
11-27-2004, 19:18
another couple of question i had:
1. What are u gonna do with the wonders of the world?
2. Also what about navies?

Silver Rusher
11-27-2004, 19:53
1. We may possibly make new ones, such as the Kremlin in Moscow, or the Vatican Palace in Rome.

2.We'll keep the navies, they are essential to the period. Maybe speed them up a little though.

Celtic_Winter
11-28-2004, 03:51
for historical battles:
Woudln't it be a good idea to add Grundwald? That seems like a pretty historical battle that had a major inpact in Europe. And for wonders of the world, the florentine chapel woudln't be bad.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-28-2004, 04:23
Thanks for the suggestions I will look at them all! :bow:

Silver Rusher
11-28-2004, 09:27
for historical battles:
Woudln't it be a good idea to add Grundwald? That seems like a pretty historical battle that had a major inpact in Europe. And for wonders of the world, the florentine chapel woudln't be bad.
Wasn't Grunwald exactly the same battle as Tannenburg, just under a different name?

Celtic_Winter
11-28-2004, 15:56
Wasn't Grunwald exactly the same battle as Tannenburg, just under a different name?
Apparently it is, I just knew the battle as Grundwald. My mistake.
I found some useful links for it:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/matthaywood/main/Battle_of_Tannenberg.htm

http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/SOURCES/dlugosz.htm

http://www.geocities.com/zalgiris_1410/

http://grognard.com/zines/ph/p0304.html

Silver Rusher
11-28-2004, 18:09
Thanks! These are quite handy.

Uesugi Kenshin
11-29-2004, 22:29
OK thanks!

Uesugi Kenshin
11-30-2004, 05:09
I have researched about half of the battles, and they look quite good, before I was mainly finding battles involving Turkey but now we have more variety, thanks!


SilverRusher please edit your progress post so that historical battles has a sub area for research, I have probably gotten about a quarter of the research done or more, I just need to find tiume to learn how the .txt files work exactly. Tell me if you need anything researched!

Celtic_Winter
12-01-2004, 20:25
How about the loading screen?
what are we going to do with that?
I think it would be a good idea if we have paintings from the reinesance, of knights,religion,etc?

Suleimen the Magnificent
12-02-2004, 01:43
I just had a thought. How will we handle the Military Revolution? Will it be a Marius-type event?

Also can building require an event? I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have trace italienne-type fortifications only after the military revolution.

And one third point. Can town layouts and walls be modified? Because that's what we need.

Oh one thing forgot! Can it be made so that the troops on board ships up the fighting power of those ships? I don't know about the Atlantic but in the Med large numbers of land troops were usually embarked for battle.

Celtic_Winter
12-02-2004, 04:55
I just had a thought. How will we handle the Military Revolution? Will it be a Marius-type event?

Also can building require an event? I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have trace italienne-type fortifications only after the military revolution.

And one third point. Can town layouts and walls be modified? Because that's what we need.

Oh one thing forgot! Can it be made so that the troops on board ships up the fighting power of those ships? I don't know about the Atlantic but in the Med large numbers of land troops were usually embarked for battle.
that's a good thought you got there. I know at major sea battles, Like Lepanto, the Venetians had a lot of embarked troops.
As far as the building goes, the Roman buildings somewhat fit mediterenean buildings of the reinesance(somewhat..with Spain,Italy,Greece,etc) just a few modifications would have to be made to make a church,modern barracks,stables,etc.

Silver Rusher
12-02-2004, 08:35
About the Military Revolution: This event would be hard to handle. Marian Reforms would be good, but it would have to be the Crusaders who built the citadel keep. I'm also not sure if it effects anybody other than the Crusaders, because if it did we would have a problem.

Anyway, I think that the best idea for the loading screens (as this is the renaissance mod) is to have paintings from the renaissance in there.

Another thing I'm thinking now is that instead of the wierd little boxes you get after every turn we could have 'letters' instead, so say every time you click on a box you are opening an envelope, and the message is in the format of a letter. I want to see what everybody thinks about this before it goes through (and yes, it will be possible trust me)

EDIT: And fighting from ships... I'm pretty sure that's already a feature of RTW, and if it isn't then I don't think it will be possible to incorperate.

Yggdrasill
12-02-2004, 12:06
I just stumbled onto this yesterday.

The Renaissance is the perfect time to base a RTW mod because of the incredible blend of the old and the new.

I hereby offer my humble services for this noble cause. (yes I know there's a special thread for that but it doesn't seem active)

Unfortunately, I can't do much of the really difficult stuff (skinning&graphics). I may be able to change parameters for units, buildings etc. I've done that a lot for MTW, however RTW seem a bit more complicated in that respect. If there is a guide for modding these things, you could point me to it, so I'd make the effort and learn it.

In the meantime, I can do a lot of reaserch, testing, ideas and such. I'm quite familiar with the period and have a very useful collection of resources at home. Also, I'm willing to do whatever digging is necessary, at the library, internet. In short i can do the following:

1. Historical battles - don't waste another minute thinkig about that. If this mod is ever finished, I can whip up up to ten battles of the period, both famous and some less so, various factions, in a day. It is too early to be thinking about this, but trust me, it's no problem.

2. Units - for the Italian city states, Ottomans, Moors, Mamluks, 100%, all the units. I have both the info and a huge sellection of pictoral sources, I just have to find somebody with a scanner and sent it to whoever will be doing the skinning.
Hungary, Hre, France, England, Russia - up to 50% , various region specific units from Scotland, Ireland, England, Balkans... Info and pictoral sources as well. Point me to however is compiling the selection of units and we'll have it done in no time

Artillery units for all factions

3. Music - I have a Carmina Burana in mp3 format (Excalibur soundtrack). Fits perfecty in the period. I can upload it in a couple of days if you think it would be useful. I think it would fit perfectly for battles.

4. Advice on some structures

5. Can write ingame texts for most of the units (if I'm familiar with them), info for various factions, compile a list of Renaisssance miracles of the world to replace the existing ones, compile a list of new inventions that appear from time to time at the begining of a turn (like the Archimedean screw).

Maybe something else as well.

Yggdrasill
12-02-2004, 12:23
For now, I need some info.
First what is the exact timeframe?

What is the list of factions? Which ones are playable? I could have some input on the sublect (notably Mamluks as the playable faction are a must, Moors and Burgundy, both very important, Byzantines can be a rebel faction, they really were as good as 'dead' by late 14th century, virtually no territories to speak of )

Who is in charge of unit selection?

Several graphics quirks you guys will need to look into:

1. SADLES - ancient nations didn't use sadles as we know them, and so they don't exist in RTW.
For the mod you will have to make two distinct types of sadles - one a light one for light cav, and the other a large and heavy one, with raised sides, maybe even covered in plate (used for protecting the groin, and the family jewels ~D wouldn't do to have those damaged would it now, what would the ladies say :furious3: ). I have pics if you need em. Of the sadles, not the jewels ~;)

2. How do you plan to skin the crossbows and guns? The movement of the soldiers firing these weapons resembles nothing from RTW! They have to bring up the stock, rest it on the shoulder, fire (muzzle flash and smoke - problem?), then set it on the ground and reload! Is it possible to animate different movement for specific units (I know nothing of 3d graphics and animation)? If not, we're in troble as this is too important to be overlooked!

3. Also important, less so but still... Lance armed cav in RTW uses a low stabing motion when attacking. This is because there were no stirrups then. However, heavy cav in the Ren. period uses a couched lance, and a wholly differnet posture of the upper body. Will it be possible to program that? Oh and the stirrups as well?

4. What about new walls - thick, low, filled with earth, bastions and ravelins. Very important for sieges, will it be possible to model this? there might be a problem with fitting these massive structues onto the miniscule maps we have in RTW.

Yggdrasill
12-02-2004, 12:35
Here's a taste of the pics i have available.

These are online follow the link, there are several periods available, choose Renaissance (obviously)

I have many, many more at home. I just have to scan em and upload, not much of a problem.

Check out the Ottoman sipahi 1520 and the Sipahi from the battle of Sisak 1593 (one of the battles I plan to create).

Also a huge selection of Hussar and other light cav, region specific for the Balkans...

There is a really good pic of a Ottoman sipahi from the siege of Viena 1683 in the Pike&Shot period. It's a bit late I know but if you look at the pic you'll see that the equipment is virtually unchanged for 150 years. Also a great resource for skinning.

http://public.carnet.hr/husar/

Sorry couldn't figure out how to post links. Just type this in your explorer and drop me a note if it worked

Silver Rusher
12-02-2004, 21:34
Whoa! Lots of stuff to deal with here, Yggdrasill.

The first post you made:

You seem very enthusiastic. If you wish to work on the units or any scripting, then just say so. Research is also fairly important. Scripting RTW isn't really much harder than MTW once you really figure it out, and finding particular files is the biggest problem people generally have. Delve into the RTW destination and explore for a while, and you should find some stuff.

1. Historical Battles; If you can script the battles, great. I think Uesugi Kenshin is researching the battles right now, you could help him if you want.

2. If you want to just post any unit info or pics or anything you have, please do so. Artillery is fine as well.

3. We do need new music (I was quite frankly disappointed with RTW's music after playing MTW). If you could find any at all, pm me or post with a link to the upload site.

4. Advice on structures is not all that important, unless you can come up with 7 wonders (important wonders I mean) to replace the ones currently.

5. Scripting is probably what I mostly need you to do, unless there is any slight chance you can do graphics.

Your second post:

1. There is a list of factions on page 1. The moors have recently come up. The faction list does of course need editing. The starting period is 1402.

2. Celtic Winter is in charge of units, and the thread is here; https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39947

3. Graphical Stuff;

i: Saddles are no problem. We can now edit the models of units, and so we can also put other stuff like saddles on.

ii: As I said, guns and crossbows can easily be given to a man now that the models can be edited.

iii: Yes, it will be possible, but we will have to edit the animations and that is currently very difficult to do.

iv: The problem I see here, as I have already explained is a couple of things. a) There were many castles left over built out of stone from medieval times. b) I think that this is also a little ahead of it's time; maybe the later walls can have these features to them.

The link you posted is fantastic. It really does give modellers something to work from. Thanks!

Uesugi Kenshin
12-03-2004, 01:36
I will make a thread for Historical Battles so that we do not intrude if you want to help me I would be happy to have some help, if I get more research done tonight I will give you info on what battles I am looking at, some are not from the time period but they are within a hundred years so we will have the necessary units.

Yggdrasill
12-03-2004, 10:35
Wonders of the world

1. Alhambra - the famous palace in Granada, the splendour of its halls was such that the king and queen of Spain, after conquering this tiny last bastion os islamic art in western Europe, choose to base their court there for a while. In a time when Cristians regularly destroyed any visible signs of muslim scholarship and culture, that in itself is recognition enough

2. Kremlin in Moscow - it looks impressive even today, not to mention the 16th century

3. The cathedral of St. Paul in Rome

4. AjaSofia in Istambul

I'll try to think of a few others in a few days time (not necessarily only 7) so you can make the final choice. Anybody else is free to make suggestions as well. Once you decide which one will make the final cut, I'll start digging for some pictures and more info.

Question:

Do the wonders have to be built prior to 1402 (so that they already exist when the mod starts) or during the time frame of the mod (and then pop up on the strategic map in for example in 1507)?

eadingas
12-03-2004, 11:58
I'd say the 7 wonders should be the 4 great cathedrals of medieval world: Cologne, Notre Dame, Westminster, St.Peter's (the pre-Michelangelo one); Hagia Sophia for the eastern Europe, and for muslims: Al-Aqsa and Alhambra. They were all ready by the beginning of this mod, IIRC... (not sure about Cologne, though)

As for the Marian Reforms - it should be bound to fall of Constantinople, I think, as it was in many ways the end of Middle Ages, and beginning of Renaissance, with scholars of Byzantium fleeing to western Europe. There is even a way to do that, if you give Imperial Palace the following requirements:
Imperial Palace requires hidden resource Byzantium and not factions { byzantium, }
(if you make a byzantine faction, that is).

Silver Rusher
12-03-2004, 19:41
Imperial Palace needs byzantium? Ambitious... and quite limiting. I suppose it could work though. If we did this it would really just mean though that Constantinople is the new "Rome" of the Citadel Mod, even though it is a rebel province.

I'm gonna make constantinople a really big town, very well guarded and with very good defences. I don't want to have the Turks just swooping in there on the first few turns.

eadingas
12-03-2004, 19:46
If you make it rebel then the line should end 'and not faction { slaves, }', of course.

Silver Rusher
12-03-2004, 20:20
Oh, and as for the wonders, I think there are a few suggestions I have to make as well.

1. The Basilica of St. Paul: I think I should combine this with the Vatican palace. The Vatican would be good as it was (and is) effectively the centre of the catholic church. Bonus could be that loyalty is increased throughout the empire.

2. Cathedrales: I think it best not to limit wonders to cathedrales. This would just make many aspects of the game repetitive. The Basilica is only there because it is being merged with the Vatican (the same way the Sphinx was merged with the Great Pyramid).

3. The Kremlin in Moscow: I like the idea of having this as a wonder. It could increase law throughout the kingdom, or increase defence (I'm not sure if that's possible though).

4. Alhambra Palace: Definately gotta be in. Just had so much to do with the time period, and if we give it a good bonus it really will keep the Castilians attacking the Moors.

5. Hagia Sofia: Not sure about the bonuses, but still a good idea. It just makes Constantinople even better! I know it's a cathedrale, but then again a Greek Orthodox Cathedrale, so it will be different.

And to answer your question Yggdrasill, I think that all wonders should have been built by 1402. You can't make a wonder just 'appear' out of nowhere in the middle of the game.

Maybe we shouldn't have bonuses at all for wonders.... I'll start a new thread on the topic.

FEMTO
12-03-2004, 22:50
The Factions:

Italians = Egypt




Hi there,

I am very excited to hear about the development of this mod. However, one thing I am worried about is that you have not included the Mamluk Empire (how can you not include them?). Since you have decided to have the game start in 1402, I think the Mamluks should be included too. You may argue that the Mamluks were pretty much finished in 1517 and became the subjects of the Ottomans. However, I would argue that as the game is starting in 1402 then we the player should determine the course of destiny for the faction we play with. I might, playing as the Mamluks not get crushed by the Ottomans and in fact defeat the Ottomans themselves. In addition, change the course of history. There has to be a little level of fantasy in the game, which is pretty much, what we are doing when we are attempting to conquer the whole of Europe. I think it would be a shame to just only include one Muslim faction. It would also allow for more different play styles as the Mamluks had different troops to the Ottomans, and there would also be good reason to then use the Arab type game models for the game. Oh please include another Muslim faction. In my opinion it would be an obvious choice to have the Mamluks = Egyptians rather than Italians = Egyptians. Oh please, please include the Mamluks. Anyway, this mod is sounding really cool and hopefully will end up really great, just add the Mamluks too. Please? I will cry my eyes out if you don’t. :(

Silver Rusher
12-03-2004, 22:58
Yeah, I think I'm gonna replace the byzantines.

Italians = Egyptians really doesn't mean anything. It really does not matter which faction the new thing is replacing the older version of, quite simply. Starting positions and everything are being completely revamped, don't worry.

FEMTO
12-03-2004, 23:27
Hmmm…I was just thinking, I like the sound of this mod and I would be interested to help you in some way. I know how to texture, pretty competently. However, I have never done retextures for any of the total war games. If there is a small tutorial on how to do such a thing, I can help out on some of the Mamluk units and other units, and I can also come up with a variety of names. However, I must stress that I am an extremely busy person doing other things, but if you want my help on this then I will devote what free time I get into helping you out. Tell me what you think? Also is there a tutorial on how to edit existing meshes without losing the animation information? If there is then I can also make completely new models for you. I have no animation experience, however, what I could do is to make brand new meshes, and if there is an animator in this group then I could always pass on the meshes to the animator. Tell me what you think!

Uesugi Kenshin
12-04-2004, 05:25
OI! Constantinople shall fall swiftly no matter what you do for the Grand Sultan Suleiman wishes it to be so! Once the Grand Turkish armies arrive the Hagia Sofia shall be the greatest mosque ever built by christian hands! Come Mamluks obtain your own faction so we may do glorious battle on the plains of the east, but in the end the Ottoman empire shall hold all of the lands on this great earth and we shall rule with justice and fairness over all the peoples of the world!


Good idea about the mamluks and Constantinople, by the way it is Suleiman and not Selim because I plan to take Constantinople before he is Sultan and possible before he is born....

Silver Rusher
12-04-2004, 10:30
FEMTO: That would be brilliant. We need a graphics guy on the team, would you mind doing artwork as well as skins?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39733

Google for 'discreet tutorials' on the web, and it should tell you a lot about modelling with 3ds max. Also, if you get the pack extractor (http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=43) you can look around in the UI folder for loads of different graphics stuff. There is also a whole bunch of textures in there.

This one is also a must if you want to edit RTW models in 3ds max. http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=141

If you look around here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=77) you will find loads of very helpful modding instructions.

Templar Knight
12-04-2004, 14:23
wow, this mod sound excellent!

let me know if you need any help with the history side of things

Silver Rusher
12-04-2004, 15:38
If you want to help out with history, please feel free to post in any of the research thread.

Silver Rusher
12-05-2004, 11:04
I've done some faction emblems, check page 1.

FEMTO
12-05-2004, 11:07
Hey thanks for allowing me onto the team. And yes I don’t mind doing artwork too. Anyway, I have to go to work after I have finished typing this. And then I have to go to football straight after work, but when I get home I will get started on something and hopefully have something to show. Is there anything you want me to do specifically first?

Silver Rusher
12-05-2004, 11:13
I will PM you.

Shigawire
12-05-2004, 15:57
Looks like the beginnings of a great mod is in the works here. ~:cheers:

I would do some 3d-modelling.. If I wasn't already busy with VoiceMod for RTR. :dizzy2:

Silver Rusher
12-05-2004, 16:08
Well why not do both? I can't see why not.

pinstripes33
12-06-2004, 07:16
wanted to jump and say if its not to late the the Golden Horde empire fell apart in 1405.

Silver Rusher
12-06-2004, 08:30
We know that. The game does start in 1402. I know there's only three years, but still.

Shigawire
12-06-2004, 10:47
Well why not do both? I can't see why not.

I need enough time for relaxation and time for a social life. etc

Uesugi Kenshin
12-06-2004, 21:39
What is this "social life"???

Silver Rusher
12-06-2004, 21:55
What is this "social life"???
LOL. As if modders actually have any social life.

j/k. That's perfectly fine, although society really doesn't take up that much time if you think about it. Then again you do have your Voicemod to work on, which I respect.

Uesugi Kenshin
12-07-2004, 04:40
No really I am interested, what is this strange thing????




I am done now ~D

Tribolute
12-08-2004, 12:30
Another thing is how you're going to control the princess marrying off...

Like would you add it as a diplomatic proposal because the princesses of the royal families would never marry a commoner.

Silver Rusher
12-08-2004, 20:20
Sorry Tribolute, not possible.

Saranalos
12-12-2004, 03:14
I'd like to hepl on skinning but i can't get those god damn DS plugins to work :hide: :hide:

I couldent get the .dds plugins to work either are you sure you are downloading the right plugin? Read the small print something I almost never do. And it should tell you which .dds plugin is for photoshop and paintshop pro
on the Nvidia home website. :duel:

King Yngvar
12-16-2004, 04:50
Question; Instead of various Scandinavian factions, why not adding a Kalmar Union?

Silver Rusher
12-16-2004, 09:27
There's only one scandinavian faction, and that is Denmark.

humvee2800
12-19-2004, 19:59
yo girlfreind lol anyway um i was wondering do you have any release date prepared cus oi truly cant wait for this holy holy holy mod lol oh and if u want id love to bettest (contact me at humvee2800@yahoo.ca) ive beta tested for many many mods for many different games and have got soem exerience in it now

Silver Rusher
12-19-2004, 20:34
Hmm, there is not currently a release date on the mod. In fact, it may be months before we even decide on one. Anyway, when a beta arrives, we might need you back.

Uesugi Kenshin
12-20-2004, 04:32
Yup. I think our answer to all of those questions should be, "You will get it when it is done" because that is what we should do. Anyway it is great to see so much enthusiasm about this mod.

friendlyindian
12-20-2004, 18:54
I am a noob, and I know nothing about modding, but I can help you with research, or testing. If you want me to help you guys with research, please send me a brief summary of what you already have to my email: pratikray@msn.com-in the subject type modding info. As always I am the friendlyindian here to help ~:)

Saranalos
12-22-2004, 19:52
I will not be around cos of christmas and all that so I will be back for january at the latest ~D ~D ~D ~D
~:cheers:

Uesugi Kenshin
12-22-2004, 21:41
I will be around so if anybody has questions or info I will probably be able to help.

Ianofsmeg16
01-02-2005, 19:36
yhis looks fantastic, i'm no good at modelling but i do now quite a bit on historical armies :book: no bragging, for example, the italians focused primarily on arquebuses/firelock muskets, and the longbow in enlgand was in decline but still used, France was incredible with cavalry and spain was focused on pikemen/halberdiers

will you include the discovery of america?

Silver Rusher
01-02-2005, 21:12
Unfortunately actually having the Americas and other areas in the mod is restricted by RTW's engine, but we will be including it as an "event".

If you wish to contribute to historical army research, please post in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39947

Thanks and welcome to the ORG,
SR

dark_shadow89
01-29-2005, 08:29
Hi Silver Rusher

The mod sounds cool and i'd love to help. I have a bit of knowledge on the military tactics and armies of the time... I could do some research too.

my email is dark_shadow89@hotmail.com

piece of info #1:

From what i've read armies at this time (1500s) were massive pikemen armies (swedish & swiss). Guns were still pretty primative, with arquebuses and early muskets. Soldiers still wore armour too. I've thinking u could convert the hoplites in RTW to become pikemen - just take away the shields.

thats all...hope i make the team...

dark_shadow89

Uesugi Kenshin
01-29-2005, 15:36
Hi, SilverRusher is no longer very active on the forum. I have been elected the new team leader. I will send you an e-mail.
Can you model?
Can you do any sort of 3D or 2D work?
Other than that we have pretty much everything covered I think, but more help is always welcome.

caesar44
01-29-2005, 17:09
hi team leader
you said that you covered almost everything
how are you going to represent the papacy ?
its going to act like the senate ? or like the papacy in mtw ?
there is to be several german states or one h.r.e. ?

besides , good luck


:book:

Uesugi Kenshin
01-30-2005, 00:45
The papacy is going to be like the senate, and will influence the Italian states. There will be one HRE and I believe there were some ideas as to how we could make it more historically accurate, but I do not know if we decided on one.

caesar44
01-30-2005, 19:42
hi
ok
please make it several german states
the largest conflicts of the era were between the german states
the hre was just a frame with no reality
one german state was making alliance with the franch or english against another german state
the hre did not have a singel policy , to the contrary

:book:

Yggdrasill
01-30-2005, 20:16
I think the the Habsburgs are the playable faction. So the player will control those provinces that belonged to them. All the others will be 'slave' faction. Really dumb way of doing it but unfortunately the only one as CA didn't give us the option of unlimited (or at least a very high number) factions. Even worse, we can't even change the culture they belong to so we had to fit our faction list to those demands.
I'm not really sure what is the final decision, if we get HRE as a unified country, I think that's a valid way of doing it as well. After all, the CA used the exact same aproach in MTW. May even solve some problems we would otherwise have.
If it were up to me, we'd have all the electoral princes and bishoprics. But it's not. Live with the pain. ~D

caesar44
01-30-2005, 20:37
outch...
but if every slave faction in the hre should have a diferent name , color etc ?
is there a problem in the ai of the slave factions ? ~:confused:

Ignoramus
02-01-2005, 04:12
Why not Get rid of Aragon, I know they were a semi-major faction in this time period, but Castile merged with Aragon in 1485 or something like that, and replace them with the Northern German Alliance and make the Hapsburgs name, Hapsburg Germany, and make Bavaria rebel, but have really powerful armies, to make it almost like a faction. This way, it would more realistic, because you would have the main focus on France, Germany, and Italy, the main areas of the Renaissance, and it also means that you could add in the Historical Battles, some battles from the 30 Years War. What do you think?

Uesugi Kenshin
02-01-2005, 04:31
Don't forget Turkey, they had Europe in a constant state of fear through much of the time period. I do not know, Y and Saranalos may know more. I definately think Aragon was a side faction compared to Germany though.

I still wish we could squeeze Ireland in...... But we should never do that at the expense of a kore important faction.

Ignoramus
02-01-2005, 10:16
Well, to compensate for Aragon, We could always change the Knights of St. John to Aragonese Naples, and making it subject to the Pope. That way we still in a sense have Aragon, and it means that the Pope won't conquer all of Southern Italy. But I do think we should spilt Germany into two though.

Yggdrasill
02-03-2005, 10:18
That would work well.
What 2 German factions would we have? One should definitely be the Habsburgs. What about the other?
HOw about the House of Luxemburg? Sigismund of Luxemburg was the emperor in the beginning of the 15 th century?

On the plus side, there are no new units - both German factions can have the same roster.

Ignoramus
02-03-2005, 10:28
Look at your inbox. I sent you a suggestion.

caesar44
02-03-2005, 22:29
hi modder
again , the germans should have several states , 2 , 3 , 4 of the 8 electors
all the german factoin should have the same units , buildings ets
you should only focus on the names , collors , flags ets

looking forward for the mod and your desitions

:book: ~:handball:

Yggdrasill
02-03-2005, 22:41
Dude, we can only put in so many factions. f you want all the electors, then we have to cut out almost half the factions. In any case the diplomacy options are not nearly complex enough to do justice to such complicated and subtile relations so even if we add that many german factions you'd probably be disappointed in the end.

Weren't there 7 electors, 4 princes and 3 bishops?

Ignoramus
02-03-2005, 23:38
Inbox is free now.

Uesugi Kenshin
02-04-2005, 04:10
Having two german states seems to be the best way to go. Anymore would be taking up too many slots and any less would not give any sense of the geopolitics of the time.
I know a lot about the east during this time period but not much about Aragon or the knightly orders, does anybody know if that would be appropriate?

Ignoramus
02-04-2005, 06:22
Having two german states seems to be the best way to go. Anymore would be taking up too many slots and any less would not give any sense of the geopolitics of the time.
I know a lot about the east during this time period but not much about Aragon or the knightly orders, does anybody know if that would be appropriate?

Well, my idea was that we could have three. But, if you think two is the best way to go, then you should make Saxony the state for these two reasons:

1. They are in the North, and the Hapsburgs are in the South.
2. They were one of the two major German states of this period.

But this was my idea: Change Aragon to Saxony. Change HRE to Bavaria. Keep Hapsburgs. Change Knights of St. John to Naples(as they only had Rhodes). It is a shame about Aragon, but Castile merged with them in 1485 or close enough. But if we included Naples, they could have half-Spanish half-Italian units, as Naples was Aragonese for most of the Period. I do think we should include Naples at the expense of the Knights of St. John. Because they only held Rhodes, and it would be silly to have them in, because the Turks would rule the sea, and they need to fight to expand. And they didn't last long against the Turks. But having a half-Spanish half-Italian miltary faction would be COOL!

Oh, and and a thing about the Papacy: Instead of missions for the Italians to do, why not make it Crusades against the Turks or Moors. Give them 20 or 25 turns to complete it, and make the rewards substantial for success, and the punishment brutal for failure.

Any Comments?

Yggdrasill
02-04-2005, 10:58
Would work and I like it.
But we have to make sure that we choose the most powerful houses. I know the Habsburgs were that, but the other two I have no knowledge of. Were they both electors?
We have to choose electors, plus i'm still in favour of the Luxemburg as they were quite powerful at the begining of the period.
But in principle I agree. It would save us the hassle of yoe another minor faction units.
Great idea about the crusades, but is it possible?

Saranalos
02-04-2005, 21:08
Great news the patch is out and it includes a battle map editor and all the wonders are viewable in battlemap view as well see....
http://img234.exs.cx/img234/7131/00305kw.jpg

plus if you need the patch you can download it here http://downloads.grey-wolves.net/rtw/RomeTW_1.2_Patch.exe it worked fine for me although the one over at the offical site didnt.

So now we should be able to get to work on those historical battles. We could release a demo with 2 or 3 historical battles in it as a taster? ~:) :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

Ignoramus
02-04-2005, 21:21
Would work and I like it.
But we have to make sure that we choose the most powerful houses. I know the Habsburgs were that, but the other two I have no knowledge of. Were they both electors?
We have to choose electors, plus i'm still in favour of the Luxemburg as they were quite powerful at the begining of the period.
But in principle I agree. It would save us the hassle of yoe another minor faction units.
Great idea about the crusades, but is it possible?

Saxony was an elector, but Bavaria was an independant knigdom, so it seems fair to have both of them in. I don't know about the Crusades, but I hope it could be done.

Uesugi Kenshin
02-05-2005, 04:45
Does anybody think Knights of St. John and Aragon should be kept in instead of these German states?
Is there any unit variation between the German states?
If there is not are they very different in size and power (aka will one of them walk all over the others)
Do people have any other factions they would like included that we have not yet discussed?
The faction i would love to be able to include is Ireland, but unfortunately there is not enough room from what I know. Too bad there are hardcoded limits.

GodsPetMonkey
02-05-2005, 06:17
The reason why the 3 knightly orders makes sense is that they are the best way of dealing with the "senate and 3 roman factions" problem.

I'm not sure how much of this has changed in the patch, but my understanding is that due to the fact that cultures have a maximum number of factions in them, if you dont want factions to recieve senate missions (or papal missions, if you prefer for the purposes of the mod) then they have to be in the non-roman culture group, if you dont want any nation to recieve those missions, you cant have anything in that cultural group (apart from your senate replacement, the papacy). IMHO, bad waste of 3 slots!

If your happy for the Knights of St. John's replacement to be getting missions, then thats fine, or juggling arround with the other groups so that some other faction gets them instead. Its just one of those stupid things you have to consider.

Of course, 1.2 may have changed that all... you never know! Or atleast, I haven't been bothered to take much notice.

Ignoramus
02-05-2005, 06:35
Well, I think it would be historically accurate to include Saxony and Bavaria. Why should we include a faction that only has Rhodes! We already decided to change it to the Italian States for the Pope/Senate relationship. Anyway, could you post a poll and see what people think?

Uesugi Kenshin
02-06-2005, 02:47
Will do. It would be a waste of three factions. Everybody make sure you vote in the poll!

Ignoramus
02-06-2005, 05:29
Hey! It says I can't vote! Why can't I?

Ignoramus
02-06-2005, 05:44
Also, how come I am only a junior member?

Silver Rusher
02-06-2005, 10:32
Hello everybody!

I said before that I would be not posting very frequently, but as you can plainly see I am not posting at all. The reason? I have given up modding RTW. In my opinion, MTW is far, far better a game for modding, and so I am going back to that. I wish you all the best of luck in keeping this mod going, and I will send all the files that I had previously worked on to Uesugi (although Uesugi, you might want to start again on the campaign, because no matter what I try I just can't get it to work)

Expect to see me soon with my new in-progress mod, TOTAL VI! And maybe I will even continue work on the CTW mod for Medieval I had previously planned, but after the Total VI mod is finished.

Thanks and good luck once again,
Silver Rusher

Yggdrasill
02-06-2005, 12:30
Hello everybody!

I said before that I would be not posting very frequently, but as you can plainly see I am not posting at all. The reason? I have given up modding RTW. In my opinion, MTW is far, far better a game for modding, and so I am going back to that. I wish you all the best of luck in keeping this mod going, and I will send all the files that I had previously worked on to Uesugi (although Uesugi, you might want to start again on the campaign, because no matter what I try I just can't get it to work)

Expect to see me soon with my new in-progress mod, TOTAL VI! And maybe I will even continue work on the CTW mod for Medieval I had previously planned, but after the Total VI mod is finished.

Thanks and good luck once again,
Silver Rusher

Well I feared this would happen. No screenshots of the campaign map, no Campaign map done! notice, no sign of Silver for ages... Needless to say this changes a lot. Not so much because Silver gave up, but more because he admitted that the campaign map doesn't work. So we're back at the beginning, only this time short of a modeler. Silver could have contributed a lot, especially since he uses Photoshop and can do campaign graphics. With no sign of other graphics guy, this means we're down to one graphics modeler and in serious trouble. Any hope of recruiting additional people to join is now gone, since the originator of the mod and a person who should have been a major contributor just quit on us. So what do we do now?

There are three possibilities. One, which I hope will not happen, is that we call it quits, pack and go home. I really hope this will not happen, I've invested a lot of time into this, and GodsPetMonkey especially, some of the models he made are fantastic. Of course, if he decides he's had it, then it really is over. And I can't blame him if he does, since he's the only one doing some work right now, and the ONLY graphics modeler that we have.

The other option is that we go on as we have sofar. Continue working on the campaign map with somebody else doing the map, and hope for the best. I have to say, that it seems to me that this would only result in a slow but irreversible decline in tempo, interest and enthusiasm for the mod, and that eventually it would also die.

The third option is a new direction in developement. For too long we have made no progress. I think a reassesment of what is and what isn't possible is in order, and that we temporarily suspend all work on the campaign part of the game and focus on developing the units and everything associated with them so that we, if all else fails, manage to finish and implement a new battle time period. In other words, let's just do the battle part of the game, new factions and their units, new weapons, animations and sound, some new walls, new unit info and 2d images, and new faction flags, publish that so that we can play custom game and historical battle scenarios and then perhaps, continue working on the campaign if we feel like it. Perhaps then somebody will join our team.
It this case, we would all have to roll up our sleeves and do some work concerning graphics. Given the limitations (we all have lives outside the mod, as I have been painfully aware for the past month) and few members in our team, this seems to be the only realistic option. Redoing the campaign (with its associated graphics, both 3d and 2d, buldings, info, events, vices and virtues, retinue, wonders, music, sounds... the list goes on...and finally debugging, which is the most difficult part, as Silver has just proved to us all), is a bit too much for us to swallow. In the end, slow progress would frustrate us all, and the whole thing would end in a disaster.

GodsPetMonkey
02-06-2005, 13:19
I think its a sad thing that Silver has decided to give up on RTW in general, and CTW in particular, though I can understand your frustration with the engine at times, you were a driving force and capable modder.

But I don't believe in leaving cause things arnt going my way, so don't worry about me Yggdrasill! I'm not going anywhere, but I do agree we need to speed things up a little. The direction we head in now is of little concern to me, either way 3D units are needed, but I think your right that just getting the battle side of things done would produce something concrete and working much sooner.

And, while I agree the desire for more 3D artists is important, they are a very rare commodity (especially seeing most mods dont have ANY!). Its as important to find other who can help make the mod a reality.

Silver Rusher
02-06-2005, 21:22
I'm not so much giving up, more accepting the fact that the RTW engine just is not nearly as good for modding as the MTW engine, and that going back to modding MTW is probably just better, for it is easier and more effective. The limits of RTW, like the limit on the factions you can have etc. is essentially what completely puts me off this game. In fact, I have started to find I don't really even like RTW that much, it really lost my hooking. MTW was great because it really made you feel as if you were actually in the shoes of a true medieval king, and modding it holds much more promise.

I'm very sorry for having to leave now, and like I said, it isn't about me giving up on this mod in particular (if the RTW engine was better to mod I would stay with you guys right up until the release) but rather on Rome's modding capabilities. Sorry, and I really mean it actually. I'm going to miss working on this mod.

Silver Rusher

Ignoramus
02-06-2005, 21:35
I posted a reply with a bit of the info in the RTW heavengames thread, to try to attract more modders. And PLEASE vote everyone!

Uesugi Kenshin
02-07-2005, 04:29
Sorry to see you leaving CTW for good Silver. Good luck on your MTW mods.
Members are the only ones that can vote.
I have zero artistic talent, so I can work on anything but modelling, I can work on figuring out unit stats/lists whatever, but if anyone on the team has artistic talent, even if they have not modelled before they should give it a try and see if they can make good unit models. If you want to try it out I believe there are free modelling programs on the net, though they are very basic. That might help you get an idea as to whether or not you want to model.
Silver, could you send the data to citadeltotalwar@hotmail.com, my hotmail account is down for now. Everyone else I will start writing my name at the end of everything that I send from that e-mail account, sorry for not doing it to begin with. I am going to be using it instead of my other account until I get that fixed, I only use it for this mod anyway so it will not be a problem.
Long live CTW!

Ignoramus
02-07-2005, 05:37
Need anymore faction units' names/equipment? I can easily provide any of these that are needed. Oh, if there are 3 German factions, I think we should give each German faction one unique unit if possible. Or, change the availibility of the units, so one is infantry based, the other pikemen based, and the other cavalry based, or something like that to make it feel like different factions.

Ignoramus
02-07-2005, 08:11
Farewell Silver Rusher! Hope you have success with modding Medieval!

Ignoramus
02-08-2005, 01:16
I posted a thread in RTW Heavengames, asking all modders to help. Already there is one wanting to help. I posted the sites address, and told him to pm you Uesugi Kenshin.

Uesugi Kenshin
02-08-2005, 04:18
Thanks, it would be great to get some more help. I don't know about making 5the German factions different, we need to find out if there were historical differences between them.

Yggdrasill
02-08-2005, 08:55
No no significant differences, maybe only a few units that were specific to certain regions might appear in the armies of neighboring German factions but the core of the army was the same.

Uesugi Kenshin
02-09-2005, 04:31
That is what I figured, thanks for the info.

Eastside Character
02-09-2005, 15:15
I will send (...) you might want to start again on the campaign, because no matter what I try I just can't get it to work


So, you have no working campaign map, is that right?
Because you see, I could not give you the map I'm making for Pike&Musket, but could make you your own that would fit your timeperiod better. What do you think?

Regards
EC

Yggdrasill
02-09-2005, 19:00
So, you have no working campaign map, is that right?
Because you see, I could not give you the map I'm making for Pike&Musket, but could make you your own that would fit your timeperiod better. What do you think?

Regards
EC


Dude that would be great! :charge: ~:cheers:

Uesugi Kenshin
02-10-2005, 04:22
T%hat would be great if you have spare time, but don't sacrifice P&M time for it, we are pretty far from being able to set that up well. Any6 help is always welcome. :bow:

Eastside Character
02-10-2005, 12:33
Well, anyway here's my deal:
-I make you a working campaign map following your instructions on how its gotta be arranged or whatever else, but then after it's done you owe me something. I kinda can't think of something suitable in return, but certainly that would be something for some mod or stuff like that. What would it be I leave up to you, that is if you are interested. I demand nothing in particular, just make it even.

Regards
EC

caesar44
02-10-2005, 17:03
Dude, we can only put in so many factions. f you want all the electors, then we have to cut out almost half the factions. In any case the diplomacy options are not nearly complex enough to do justice to such complicated and subtile relations so even if we add that many german factions you'd probably be disappointed in the end.

Weren't there 7 electors, 4 princes and 3 bishops?


ok got it
you are absolutely right about the diplomatic limitations
there were 7 electors and then 8
electors , archbishops , bishops , princes ets - about 330
~:cheers:

Uesugi Kenshin
02-11-2005, 04:26
That would be very helpful and we will be forever in your debt.

If you ever think of something we would be glad to help you guys out. Just say the word.


I think the map we wanted was going to be like the RTW one but it will go farther north and have more realistic terrain in Ireland, possibly more mountains/hills. Those are only specific things that come to mind right now, I believe we have a province map somehwere.....

Uesugi Kenshin
02-11-2005, 04:44
Just a few updates for eveyone, I got my e-mail up and working again so everybody can again contact me at uesugikenshincitadel@hotmail.com. I have pmed the other two people that are on the team member list as 3D artists, but they have not replied.

Yggdrasill
02-11-2005, 09:57
Province map is here

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1400.htm#%20here

Byzantine Prince
02-11-2005, 10:12
That's not a province map. The Ottoman Empire can't be just one province! Not to mention the rest 100 little problems with that map.