View Full Version : Rise of Rome
Rise of Rome: (From Senate to Ceasar)
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18093
This will be a new mod based on the Romans Rise to power.. It will cover Romes initial conquest of the Italian peninsula, the Punic Wars with Carthage, Pyrrhus' invasion, and the beginnings of the conquest of Gaulia... Map will cover entire Italian peninsula, Southern Gaulia, Eastern Spain, and North Africa..
Factions: (as of this moment)
1. Rome
2. Carthage
3. Syracuse
4. Samnium
5. Estruscans
6. Gaul (various tribes)
7. Celtiberians (Ancient Spanish)
8. Greek Colonies
9. Epirus (Pyrrhus' forces in Taras)
10. Aequi
11. Volsci
12. Oscans
13. Numidia
14. Campanians
For those not familiar with my work.. please look under Diadochi.. in this forum.. I will be contributing the units for this game.. they will all be rendered in 3d and then transfered into the MTW engine.. I am presently looking for other modders to contribute to RoR.. if you are interested in joining the team please post a reply below.. letting me know what you can do
Model Inventory
Scutarri
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18303
Rome:Tulian
1st Class (Sp)/O
2nd Class (Sp)/I
3rd Class (Sp)/I
4th Class (Ax)/O
5th Class (Ps)/I
Equites (Cv)/O
Latin allied cavalry (Cv)/O
Latin allied foot (Sp)/I
Hernician allies
Italian Hill Tribes cavalry (Cv)/O
Italian Hill Tribes infantry (Ax)/O
Rome:Camillian
Equites (Cv)/O
Italiot Cav (Cv)/O
Leves (Ps)/I
Hastati (Bd)/O
Principes (Sp)/O
Triarii (Sp)/S
Rorarii (Ps)/I
Accensi (Sp)/I
Italian greek allies (Ps)/I
Non-Latin Italian Infantry (Ax)/I
Ally Samnite cavalry (Cv)/O
Ally Samnite infantry (Ax)/S
Incendiary pigs
Anti-elephant wagons
Rome:Polybian
Triarri~Reg~Sp~S
Principes~Reg~Bd/Sp~O
Hastati~Reg~Bd~O
Velites~Reg~Ps~S
Penal Legion
Roman Cav~Reg~Cv~O
Allied Italiot Cav~Reg~Cv~O
Allied Italiot Inf ~Reg~Ax~I
Extraordinarii allied infantry~Reg~Ax~S
Syracusan or Trallian slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Gallic infantry~Irr~Wb~F
Slave volunteer legion~Reg~Bd~I
Slave volunteer triarii~Reg~Sp~I
Iberian scutarii~Irr~Ax~S
Iberian caetrati [Cv]~Irr~Ps~S
Iberian round shield cavalry~Irr~LH
Tarantine cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Gallic or Spanish cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Numidian or Illyrian cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Illyrian infantry~Irr~Ax~S
Ligurian infantry~Irr~Ax~O
African elephants~Irr~El~I
Numidian Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Numidian Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Numidian Javelinmen~Irr~Ax~I
Numidian Elephants~Irr~El~I
Carthage:Early
4-horse Chariots
Poeni Cavalry Cv/O
Numidian Mercenary Cavalry LH/O
Campanian Cavalry Cv/O
Carthaginian Sacred Band Sp/S
Poeni Citizen Infantry Sp/I
Poeni Citizen Infantry Ax/O
African Spearmen Sp/I
Spanish Scutarii Ax/S
Spanish Catraeti Ps/S
Balearic Slingers Ps/O
Numidian Mercenary Javelinmen Ps/O
Ligurian Axemen Ax/S
Ligurian Javelinmen Ax/O
Gallic Infantry Wb/O
Mercenary Hoplites Sp/O
Campanian Infantry Sp/O
Campanian Infantry Ax/O
Ligurian slingers Ps/O
Siciliot Javelinmen Ps/I
Carthage:Late
Poeni cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Numidian Mercenary Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Spanish Mercenary Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Spanish Mercenary Cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Gallic Cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Spanish Mercenary Scutarii~Reg~Ax~S
Spanish Mercenary Caetrati~Reg~Ps~S
Gallic Ifantry ~Irr~Wb~F
Ligurians~Irr~Ax~O
Elephants~Irr~El~I
Libyan Veteran Spearmen~Reg~Sp~S
Mercenary Javelinmen~Reg~Ps~S
Balearic Slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Roman Deserters~Reg~Bd~I
Other Italian Infantry~Reg~Sp~I
Other Italian Infantry~Reg~Ax~O
Bruttian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Bruttian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~O
Campanian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Campanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~I
Roman Style Principes~Reg~Sp~I
Roman Style Hastati~Reg~Bd~I
Lucanian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Lucanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~O
Lucanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~S
Celtiberian mercenaries~Irr~Wb~F
Libyan Spearmen~Reg~Sp~O
Libyan Veteran Spearmen~Reg~Sp~S
Bruttian Veterans~Reg~Ax~S
Mercenary archers~Irr~Ps~O
Mercenary Hoplites~Reg~Sp~O
Syracusan Hoplites~Reg~Sp~I
Syracusan archers and slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Syracusan cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Syracusan cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Syracusan Gauls~Irr~Wb~S
Siciliot Hoplites~Irr~Sp~I
Siciliot javelinmen~Irr~Ps~I
Siciliot cavalry~Reg~Cv~I
Siciliot cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Hammipoi supporting cavalry~Reg~Ps~I
Samnites: (work in progress)
Linteata (Elite Infantry)
Javelinmen
Samnite Warriors (Light Warband)
Samnite Spearmen
Samnite Light Cav
Samnite Heavy Cav
Skirmishers
Ernici
Syracuse:(work in progress)
Tyrant's Bodyguard
Hoplites (Syracusan, Mercenary, Allied Citizen)
Peltasts
Skirmishers
Greek Cavalry
Celtic Mercenaries
Numidian Mercenaries
Italiot Mercenaries (Samnite Spearmen, Campanian Hoplites, Italiot Cav)
Mountain Tribesmen
Spanish Mercenaries (Caetrati & Scutarii)
Libyan Tribesmen
False Hoplites
Helvetii
Nobles (Heavy Cavalry)
Warriors (Wb)
Tulingi/Boii allies (Wb)
Adolescents (Sk)
Estruscan
Devoti (Sp).... elite
Citizen(Sp)
Etruscan Axemen
Skirmishers
Allied Light Infantry
Heavy Cav
Gaullia (General)
Chariots
Cavalry
Warriors
Warriors-Fast
Javelinmen
Archers or slingers
Elderly, slaves
Foot general's soldurii bodyguards
Naked Gaesati
Ancient Spanish
Long shield cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Round shield cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Scutarii~Irr~Ax~S
Caetrati~Irr~Ps~S
Mercenary Celtiberian scutarii~Irr~Wb~F
Flaming ox wagons~Irr~Exp~O.............................. Oh yeah baby!!!
Numidia
Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Javelinmen~Irr~Ax~I
Archers or Slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Roman trained infantry~Reg~Ax~O
Elephants~Irr~El~I
Gaetuli~Reg~Ax~I
Ligurian deserters~Irr~Ax~O
Pyrrhus
Epirot or Macedonean Cavalry~Reg~Kn~F
Thessalian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Greek Cavalry~Reg~Cv~I
Aitolian Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Tarentine Phalangities~Reg~Pk~I
Epirot Phalangities~Reg~Pk~O
Greek Hoplites~Irr~Sp~O
Italiote Hoplites~Reg~Sp~I
Archers or Slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Aitolian etc Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Elephants~Irr~El~O
Tarentine Cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Oscan Foot~Reg~Ax~S
Oscan Foot~Reg~Ax~O
**All Mercenaries require control of said units home province/s.. (ie.. in order for Syracuse to produce Spanish Mercenaries.. they first must take control of an Iberian Province..
mercian billman
09-06-2004, 03:04
Unfortunately I have no modding skills but, I could help with historical research and such.
BTW, won't this mod kind of conflict with RTW?
Essentially a big arena of the western mediterranean.
I can begin work on Carthaginian units and such as well as info and such for them.
For some reason, I can't edit. Anyways, its Iberians, who are a seperate people, during the 400s BC or so, the Celtic peoples of the Aquatanii group began migrating into Iberia and formed a mixed Celtiberian culture, that is why North-Western Spain is referred to as 'Galicia'.
I think it'd be good to have various Gallic groups, like the Helvetii, Aquatanii, as independent groups, for more playability and such and to represent the poor cohesion the various Gallic tribes had.
Yes I agree.. but we should only use the largest or best known groups to keep faction list from getting to large.. Such as Cisalpine Gauls, Transalpine Gauls, Helvetii, Southern Gauls.. this allows many tribes to be grouped under a lager heading....
Let's shoot for 5 to 6 max divisions of tribes.. with only 3 or 4 playable... Let me know which ones you think are best..
http://heraklia.fws1.com/battles/The%20Gallic%20Wars/GallicTribes.jpg
Major Celtic enthic divisions were:
Celtae
Belgae
Some major tribes that often dominated lesser ones:
Helvetii (Switzerland, Italy)
Aquatanii (South-Western France, Northern Spain)
Arvenii (Central Gaul)
Verconii (Southern Gaul)
Those would be all that would apply to us as least.
All could be playable. The only problem I can imagine is making 4 different Gallic Fractions would be getting enough colors and flag designs.
http://www.chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/Laxamentum.jpg
http://chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/Imperium.jpg
Here are some pics I edited up for an RPG based in 275 BC I made, Laxamentum Imperium means something along the lines of:
'Expanding Empire'
'Expansion of Imperial Authority'
etc
I could get some new pics and breath some life into them or edit those up for your Rise of Rome mod.
True.. we can make all of them playable.. but we need to come up with enough differences between them so as they do not seem to be just clones of one another.. Each tribe should have something that makes them unique from the others.. we can sort it all out later.. just a thought for now..
Awesome pics... definetly interested...
I've started a small introduction to faction army list above.. I will update as we get further into mod developement.. this is very open.. and anyone with insight is welcome to make suggestions for any of the factions listed..
http://www.chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/RiseofRome.jpg
Quick picture I edited up for the mod.
I know the Helvetii were by far the most advanced technology wise of all the Gauls and the Arvenii were known for their ferociousness, infact I think their name means like those who do not surrender or something along those lines. Aquitanii and Verconii, no idea really. You could have Aquitanii respresent Celtiberians as well, I dunno.
How about for Syracuase:
Sicel Spearmen
(Sicels were the early inhabinants of Sicily and still today the people in the interior of Sicily are referred to as Sicels, these troops could represent levies recruited from outside Syracuase's territory.
Also, what does Syracuase represent? I assume it represents the Greek City states in Sicily while 'Greek Colonies' represent the Greek cities in italy, southern gaul, etc.
Also, you should ass Illyria to the map area and possibly Epirus, so the Romans can expand East some.
Excellent work... I need to finish up an animation for Diadoch before calling it a night.. I will check in here tommorrow.. really like the pic.. it's perfect!! :rtwyes:
...here I almost forgot to show you this.. once you get to the page just pick a campaign.. lots of info here that we can use..
http://www.slitherine.co.uk/Legion/Campaigns.htm
Marshal Murat
09-06-2004, 13:27
Foundations of Rome is a good one to check out.
Also, you should include Macedon.
During the 2nd Punic War, King Philip of Macedon pledged his army to Hannibal. (He never followed though though)
Pericles
09-06-2004, 16:11
Since I, and a lot of other people, will not be upgrading their cmputers for some time, just to play RTW, this mod will be VERY welcome.
Glad you fellas are working on this ~:)
All the best. . .
Consul Flaminius
09-06-2004, 16:12
Need any help beta testing? ~:smoking:
How About we just combine Syracuase and the Greek colonies all together? They don't have any differences really to make them unique from each other.
How about a general 'Magna Graecia' Fraction, representing the Greek cities in Sicily and Italy, as well as Massila in Gaul and greek colonies in Iberia.
They could have:
Pole-Arms
1) Syracuasan Phalangites (Sort of their 'elite' unit, Syracuase did have the best phalanx force of the greek colonies)
2) Graecian Phalangites (Their general pike unit, recruited from cities like Naxos, Messina, Rhegium, Tarantenum, etc, Similar to standard Greek phalanx, but probaly less disciplined and not as well armored, but possibly possessing much more motivation and elan)
3) Sicel Spearmen (Lightly armored levies from the interior rural communities)
4) Town Militia (Lightly armored spearmen to represent the various Greek colonies and their small local militaries)
Skirmishers
1) Sicel Slingers (Non-Armored slingers levied from the interior of Sicily)
Cavalry
The Greek colonies didn't really have anything in the way of cavalry formations.
That'd give them 4 'unique' units or so, and if we include greece, (which could add like 4 new fractions to the game, which I don't think is wise) would made them kinda of unique from their parent Greek city states.
These descriptions were taken from the game Legion it tends to support the idea of Greek colonies established along the coast and in Southern Italy..
Thurii
Thurii in the game is somewhat symbolic of a string of Greek cities on the southern coast. Founded in 444BC on the site of Sybaris, its chequered history featured short-lived leadership of a league of Greek cities, continual pressure from the interior Bruttians and Lucanians, calling in Roman help to precipitate the Pyrrhic War, and joining Hannibal. Soon after the Hannibalic War the Romans planted a colony there, ending its independence
Etruria
The Etruscans had connections, and perhaps origins, in the eastern Mediterranean. They developed a loose ‘League of 12 Nations’ which met at the ‘Fane of Voltumna’ near Volsinii. Their control at one point stretched from Campania to the Po, and included Rome. However, they were pushed back by the Greeks in the south, the Gauls in the north, then the growing power of Rome.
Campania
One of the most fertile areas in Italy, the interior was dominated by the Etruscans, the coast by Greek colonies, early in the period
Here is a page for Syracuse
http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/syracuse-history.htm
Syracuse, I believe, is worthy of having their own faction.. separate from Greeks.. Syracuse played an important role during the Punic Wars.. first being allied with Carthage.. then later with Rome.. even Pyrrhus got into the action.. when reading over this particular point in history.. you continually see the name "Syracuse" popping up..
I would like for the Greek Colonies to be a sort of Federation in game.... I can make Syracusan.. Greek.. and Etruscan units.. that look completly different from one another.. but with enough similarities that their greek influence can be seen... here is one of the places where I go.. to get reference when creating my 3d models..
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_32_figure_1.htm
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_34_figure_1.htm
I will think more about expanding the map.. I'm just afraid of adding too many factions.. Illyrians, Macedonians, Epirotes, Aetolia, Kyrenaica (This part of North Africa would appear on map if Macedon was added)... however I also like displaying Pyrrhus' home province..
Also.. on this same topic.. we need someone to make a strategy map for us.. Making a Lukmap (the map that defines each factions territories) is a major pain in the rump.. This person would really have the final say on what areas the map covers...
I supose you can have Syracuase represent the old Dionysus Federation and Greek Colonies the rest. The thing with the map will be difficult since so many little cities dot the mediterranean that are greek.
Pericles
09-06-2004, 21:30
I think it would be kind of interesting if sometime down the road you might be able to have a "Spartacus" campaign, with the player being able to play Spartacus or the Romans.
Can Spartacus succeed this time?
This might need a separate map just of Italy.
Cheers!
Marshal Murat
09-06-2004, 21:31
I would think that Syracuse would be different from the Colonies, because there was a tyrant ruling the city.
Most of the cities in Magna Graecia were ruled by tyrants.
I can maybe begin looking for maps of the region and try and give you one, just so we can know what we are working with, I suggest Illyria be added and that's all, maybe Epirus too.
After some quick searching I found a map that would work perfectly, I've already began editing it a bit, I can add rough fraction boundaries, etc if you want.
Here it is:
http://www.unc.edu/awmc/downloads/rve_04_1Med.jpg
Zastrow... man you are good.. that map is exactly what I had in mind.. go ahead and see what you can do with it.. I think, as far as the Greeks are concerned we might could collectively call them Magna Grecia.. having them work as one independent faction.. I believe there were colonies in Southern Greece & Northeastern Sicily.. as well as others.. you are right about the map in that we must be careful so as to leave enough room for each faction.. this is the main reason that I wanted to keep the overall map area small... Adding Illyria will be fine.. if Epirus would be good.. but not mandatory.. (I just like Pyrrhus)..
Zastrow.. can you tell me more about the Dionysus Federation.. I have to admit there are alot of things I don't know about this area..
No problem alogic, glad to help, I've helped out alot of modding teams in the past, NTW team, The Great War mod for Hearts of Iron and others.
I will begin working on the map wednesday and tonight perhaps, tomorrow is back to school and I'm hanging out with my friends tuesday evening, so I should have some form of a rough map your way by thursday/friday.
About Dionysus, in the late 5th century the Greeks were nearly expelled from Sicily when Segesta called upon its ally, Carthage to help it with a border dispute with Selinus, both cities are in western Sicily. The Carthaginians continued their advanced, pushing all the way to the eastern part of the island, but in 406 BC Dionysus I, became tyrant of Syracuse and binded together the various cities in eastern Sicily into a sort of a Federation and they pushed the Carthaginians back to the western part of the island of Sicily. After this, Dionysus formed a small Syracusen kingdom and expanded into southern Italy, where all the Greek city states consider him, and Syracuse to be their protector from the Italian peoples. After Dionysus' death in 396 the Federation slowly fell apart and by the time the Romans began pushing into the area in the 290 BC, the Greek city states had to look elsewhere for aid, namely, Epirus.
Also, when do you want the mod to start? I was thinking maybe after Rome conquerored Latium? That'd be 499 BC, so we could have it be 500 BC to say... 0 AD?
Okay, I spent about half an hour or so working on provinces for the game, I got out my Maps of the Ancient world and I think what I have produced will work very well, and I can come up with names for most of the provinces easily, but ones in Iberia and such will be more difficult, I was figuring naming most of the provinces off the tribes that inhabit them, for example, in Italy, Sabina, Oscana, etc for the Sabines and Oscana tribes.
Here is the map, red lines = provinces, numbers on them are for me to type up a provincial list you can match with the provinces, I tried to making the numbering make sense, but I made some mistakes and went back, not wanting to type all 82 provinces over again, just added them in, so a few places are kinda out there. I will type up a province list tomorrow or wednesday.
Here is the map:
http://chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/Provinces.jpg
I've been thinking about the same thing.. I want to keep as much historical accurracy as I can.. but I want to make the gameplay to work well too.. the problem I see right now.. is that I would need to create several versions of the Roman Army to reflect the differences (Camillian,Tulian, Polybian).. the problem is that you could technically have Roman style Hoplites on the same battlefield as Triarri & Principes.. I don't want that.. We may can just divide up the time periods.. as in Mtw.. with an Early..Late..High.. but I'm not sure if I want to do that just yet.... Will think more on the subject.. I do have some early roman helmets modeled in 3d somewhere on my harddrive.. so making the units won't be a problem.....
Let's just keep going for now and leave the date open ended for the moment.. Also, just in case you didn't know.. the date in MTW can not be adjusted for B.C. to my knowledge.. With Diadoch, I'm planning to change years into turns.. (if possible.. start at 1 and proceed up).
The Map.. once again I have to say Great Work.. really exceeding expectations here..
We should probaly divide it into time periods based off major changes in Roman society, territory or military. Say an Early Phase, Rome crushing Etruscans, etc, hoplite armies, etc and then Middle Phase, expansion into Samnium, wars against the Gauls, etc, a Punic Phase, wars against Phyrrus, Carthage, etc and finally a Caesarian Phase, the wars against the Gauls, Iberians, etc.
I dunno, just a though, for the moment I will work on completeing the map. Do you like my work on it so far?
I think we posted simultaneously.. see post above
I'm an expert at history, especially when it comes to military aspects and I'm quite handy with photoshop, word and other programs. I am a veteran at drawing up stuff for people using my knowledge. I'd be glad to help you, I love your work I've seen and It'd feel great to see some of my work being put into your new project. ~:cheers:
Excellent.. I need to do some work on Diadoch now.. but I will be updating some of the army lists soon.. I managed to drudge up some resources on Tulian, Camillian, and Polybian Romans.. Ancient Spanish.. Numudians.. and of course Carthage.. as well as some more general list on Gauls and Italiot armies.. will post them later.. will help me to prepare how I want the models to work out.. I will also include your suggested Sicels..
I, also have been reading about Sertorius.. I kinda like this guy and may try to figure a way to include him in the later ages...
Took me about 30 mins last night to come up with this provincial list, the names aren't garunteed yet, but there are no real corny ones, there is one province in Africa that is frustrating my attempts to name it at the moment. I simple titled it 'Phoenicia' for the time being while I try and find a Phoenician colony in it. Total there are now 84 provinces I believe, so here is the very long list, I will make a BIG map with all the provincial names on the provinces and then eventually fill it in with colors for the various fractions.
Provincial List:
[Sicilia]
1) Syracusae
2) Siculia
3) Sicania
4) Elymia
[Italia]
5) Bruttia
6) Oenotria
7) Oscana
8) Apulia
9) Ausonia
10) Messapia
11) Samnium
12) Latium
13) Roma
14) Sabinia
15) Umbria
16) Picenia
17) Southern Etruria
18) Northern Etruria
19) Caera
83) Volaterrae
20) Cisalpina
21) Venetia
22) Alpes
28) Raetia
[Illyria]
23) Istria
24) Dalmatia
25) Illyricum
26) Pannonia Inferior
27) Pannonia Superior
[Gallia]
29) Helvetia
30) Salassia
31) Eastern Liguria
32) Western Liguria
33) Allobrogia
34) Sequania
35) Lingonia
36) Vecontia
37) Massilia
38) Rhondania
39) Agatha
40) Arecomicia
41) Arvenia
42) Lernovicia
43) Tarbellia
44) Ellusatia
45) Tectostagia
46) Emporion
[Meditterranean]
47) Corsicia
48) Sardinia
49) Baleares
[Iberia]
50) Ilercanonia
51) Hispania Inferior
52) Asturia
53) Lucensesia
54) Bracalia
55) Arvecia
56) Carpendia
57) Hispania Superior
58) Endetania
59) Contestania
60) Hemeroskopeion
61) Bastitania
62) Oretania
63) Baeturia
64) Tortessos
65) Lusitania
66) Turdetania
67) Gades
68) Malaca
[Africa]
69) Tingis
70) Western Mauretania
71) Rusaddir
72) Eastern Mauretania
84) Cartenna
73) Rusucurru
74) Phoenicia
75) Western Numidia
76) Hippo Regius
77) Utica
78) Carthage
79) Hadrumetum
80) Girba
81) Malta
82) Eastern Numidia
Marshal Murat
09-07-2004, 13:13
I can give you limited info on the Polybius, and Camillian reforms.
Camillian:
The legion was divided into "Class" as the heaviest troops are class 1, and then works its way down to Class 5, the slingers, velites.
Class 1:These landowners were in hoplite armor, weaponry, all that good stuff.
Then the classes 2,3,4 are all working thier way down, armor and money wise, and the 5 class is the velites.
Somewhere in between they changed the order (Titus reforms i think)
During the Titus reforms(?), the Legions were made up of
Velites/Hastati(both were combined into one line)
Principali
Triarii
Roararii
Accensi
I think there was another, the hastatii/velites formed a front line.
The Principali, and Triarii i think you all know.
The Roararii are the Triarii-in-training, a step between Principali and Triarii.
The Accensi are like velites.
During the Polybius reforms, this is the "mantiple" legions.
This is the classic checkerboard formation of legions, so its the basic
Velites, hastatii, Principali, Triarii.
dimitrios the samian
09-07-2004, 14:05
Gooday Alogic Zastrow and MM , I just read all the thread from the start great work fella's, its coming together smoothly and quickly .
Keep it up .. ~:cheers:
I've updated Army List... I've left there Dbm ratings by most of them.. this will help me with their stats in MTW.. I love the idea of Spanish having flaming oxcarts.. they can work like Scythe Chariots in Diadoch.. Ridiculously high Charge rating.. High Attack.. Abysmal Defense.. No Armor.. This means they kill fast/ but also die fast ... creating as much mayhem as they can in as shory of time as they can..
Anytime you see one factions units show up in another factions list.. this will the latter to have territories belonging to the former.. under their control... Note that even though the Carthage List is very large (especially Late).. that the majority of their army is made up of mercenaries.. Carthage will benefit the most from captured territories.. but they will also be completely dependent upon this as I plan to make even their own units tied to specific provinces..
I have more.. but I have other things to do right now.. will check in again late tonight...
I have begun work on the final map version with provincial names, fraction colors and their territories, I'll be able to easily manipulate it, I'm basing it off the 500 BC time and trying to make the borders match as closely as possible. I'm also making up colors for the fractions as I go, which again, is easily edited.
So far I've bolded all the sea borders (so I can use bucket without coloring the entire map) and made all the provinces for Italy, Sicily and Illyria and have made and colored all the provinces in Sicily and southern Italy.
Syracusae is Light Green with Syracusae and Siculia, Sicania is gray (independent) and Elymia is Carthaginian, which will be white I think. Green Colonites so far have Brutia, Oenotria and Apulia and are sky blue, they will also have several colonies in Gaul and Iberia. I'll have the map done by friday probaly.
Another update:
http://www.chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/Map.jpg
500 BC
Fractions (so far, plus colors)
Rome - Red
Etruria - Orange
Syracusae - Light Green
Greek Colonies - Sky Blue
Oscans - Tan
Samnites - Yellow
Aequi - Grayish Blue
Carthage - White
Illyrians - Light Purple
Independent - Gray
Helvetii - Dark Green
Other Fractions:
Iberians (Brownish Yellow?)
Tortessons (Purple-ish Blue?)
Aquatanii (Cream?)
Verconii (Brown?)
Numidia (Golden Brown?)
Excellent work.. sorry so late with reply.. I've been out tonight.... with the work you have been doing.. editing the map and such.. maybe you could be the one to put together the Lukmap.. this is no easy task I assure you.. but considering the work you've done so far.. it might be something that you would enjoy..
You might look over some of the posts on the subject in the Alchemist Lab & Repository.. I can give you some info as well.. This is definetly a tall order to fill.. but well worth it..... the two biggest challenges in creating a new mod are Units and the Map.. everything else is easy.. (well items page issues are a bit tough too).. but really after units and a map it's all downhill.. the units are really no problem for me.. the map is the big ?.. Anyways.. it's just a thought.....
I have no experience with 'Lukmaps' and I hope I don't need any new programs to make it, I can begin looking around and try to learn though, that is always not a big deal.
I have been messing around with the map editor, although I've kept nothing I've made, we should make a slew of really cool historical battles, Cannae, Beneventum, Zama, Telamon, and some battles from Phyrrus' campaigns. I know lots on the courses of these battles and campaigns, but have no idea how you set up the formations and position them, I figure you have to code it? Which I have no experience with at all.
For the moment, I will finish the map and then that will help us visual how everything will be set up, I think the best campaigns would be:
Rise of Rome 500 BC - 290 BC (Wars against Etruria, Cisalpine Gauls, Samnites)
Laxamentum Imperium 290 BC - 201 BC (Wars against Phyrrus and the 2 Punic Wars)
And a final time period of 210 BC - 50 BC or so.
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 20:06
If you are simply modifying the medieval maps (new boundaries, ports, origins...) than I would be more than obliged to make the new boundaries. I could give shot at making a new map, but would prefer to manipulate borders. Looks like it's coming along great.
Here is a basic attempt to make us the Maptext image.. this would be the actual map you would find in game.. its not ready yet but just wanted to show you guys..
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18241
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 20:29
So... do you need my making services, and do you plan on expanding or minimizing the map? Because I would like to start as early as possible .
That map is different from mine, it doesn't go as far west as mine and it goes farther south than mine. Should I stop working on the map I am doing right now?
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 21:40
If you're working with LMM, than no, continue. if you are drawing up a base map (provinces, factions belongings), than continue.
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 21:45
Sorry if i didn't clarify. If you have begun work on a base map (like the one you made above) than continue. And about the expansion, it is easier for me, to either make the map smaller, or simply adjust the boundaries, I could expand it slightly, but would prefer not to. I could also retexture the map, if needed. Also, I can edit province locations, and basically everything the txt. files, and historical battles.
You really should include Gades and Tortessos, both are west of your map.
I don't see what you need to hack off half of Iberia. Since there is no Greece or all of Gaul in the game, you really should put all of Iberia in it, and it'd be at little consequence.
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 22:34
You really should include Gades and Tortessos, both are west of your map.
I don't see what you need to hack off half of Iberia. Since there is no Greece or all of Gaul in the game, you really should put all of Iberia in it, and it'd be at little consequence.
It's not ready yet, just wanted to show an update.
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 22:43
Sorry for my impatience, but I would like to get as much work done as I can (if I can contribute). Since alogic did say anyone who would like to join the team could. Anyway, as said above, I can edit basically and txt. file, can write historical boundaries, and can operate LLM4. If I can, I would like to begin work on editing the txt. files, do I have the go ahead? Again, sorry for impatience ~:(
Well I just don't appreciate you rushing in and wanting to, what I thought at first, change everything.
I would rather than it be a mad rush we do it slowly and make sure everybody is happy with what is being done.
Anyways, another map update, Gaul is pretty much done, the two provinces unfilled in the center I am unsure to give to, they could go rebel as insignificant Gallic tribes, or form a new Gallic fraction, or be split up between Aquatanii in the west and Helvetii in the east. I kinda favor the last option. Anyways, here it is:
http://chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/Map.jpg
Thedevil003
09-08-2004, 23:20
Well I just don't appreciate you rushing in and wanting to, what I thought at first, change everything.
I would rather than it be a mad rush we do it slowly and make sure everybody is happy with what is being done.
Anyways, another map update, Gaul is pretty much done, the two provinces unfilled in the center I am unsure to give to, they could go rebel as insignificant Gallic tribes, or form a new Gallic fraction, or be split up between Aquatanii in the west and Helvetii in the east. I kinda favor the last option. Anyways, here it is:
With two completely different approaches, I guess that I really can't be of service. good luck with mod, and finding another modder to take my place. Cheers ~:cheers:
All I said is that I didn't think it'd be a good idea to have a mad rush over it....
Did I say something wrong?
Hi all, just a note about maps. When I made the camp map for HTW I have found that strong colors must be wiped out. In my opinion MTW maps are good because they're low key with yellows, sepias, very smooth. You may build a fancy map but when in campaign you'll be lost with the amount of pieces. So, give them simillar tones, as yellows/greens, low saturation, low contrast, low bright. Just my 2 cents.
Use PSP or Photoshop layers. Put in one layer the Luk map and the terrain in another layer. Play with the transparencys, so the luk will be almost invisible, but the provinces will be separated but merged with terrain.
Thedevil003
09-09-2004, 00:02
All I said is that I didn't think it'd be a good idea to have a mad rush over it....
Did I say something wrong?
No, more of misunderstand. I wasn't changing any of the txt. files, simply adding in definite factions (Rome, Carthage…), and playing around with the times, I also did some work on coloring, and did some other minor editing; more planning. And I agree, rushing in was a bad move, but I wanted to get as much work as I could quickly. Sorry ~:( . I was just adding things that were definite, but if you want it to be cooled, than cooled it will be.
Hi all, just a note about maps. When I made the camp map for HTW I have found that strong colors must be wiped out. In my opinion MTW maps are good because they're low key with yellows, sepias, very smooth. You may build a fancy map but when in campaign you'll be lost with the amount of pieces. So, give them simillar tones, as yellows/greens, low saturation, low contrast, low bright. Just my 2 cents.
Use PSP or Photoshop layers. Put in one layer the Luk map and the terrain in another layer. Play with the transparencys, so the luk will be almost invisible, but the provinces will be separated but merged with terrain.
I have to say that I loved the mod, especially the map. I don’t plan on doing a complete overhaul of the textures, maybe a few changes (that is if I’m still making the map) but very minor, and I will keep your advice in mind.
The map I am making is a brainstorming map, so we can confirm what fractions we want, what they should recieve, etc. This map can also be used by say thedevil to create a campaign map. This isn't the final product, far from it, just will be the archetype that the real map will be built off of.
Thedevil003
09-09-2004, 00:25
If you want, I can use LLM4 to make a sketch of the map your making (province borders, which would be of ease), just to show you what the borders would look like in game, and the possible expansion of the map. And mods, can this be pinned.
Sorry guys... I have not been at home to see the goings on here.. the map I made is adjustable.. I like Zastrow's boundaries fine.. the reason I cut it off in the West was from a game play standpoint.. But if you guys feel strongly about having in-game that is fine..
Devil... anyone is welcome as I said.. I need to review your post again.. and I will tell you more in a second..
... ok I've looked over everything.. seems I missed alot today.. even Flip dropping by for a visit... Devill 003.. if you are have the knowledge in creating Lukmaps.. you definetly are welcome.. this is a tough process.. and I do not have the time between my two mods to do this.. As far as the MapTex (this is the map actually seen ingame) is concerned.. Anyone is open to creating it.. I think we need to stick by Zastrows boundaries though.. they look very accurate..and he has obviously spent alot of time compiling the information for us.. Flip is also right about the colors..... but I think the colors I used will show up ok.. at any rate.. the satellite image I used covers all of Europe so it is adjustable..
Anyways.. let's all work together peacefully please.. I work quite a bit so I cannot always be around to moderate or answer questions on the fly.. but what I stated at the introduction of this mod still holds true.. Anyone who wants to contribute to this mod in any way (big or small) is more than welcome.. this is sort of a community project....
~D
I will be home in the early afternoon and will definetly be around tommorrow evening.. we can discuss things better at that time..
I have added some more units to the army list.. updated Polybian Roman and added Numidia..
Marshal Murat
09-09-2004, 11:47
Zastrow, I'm having trouble distinguishing what provinces are Carthage, and what aren't.
Samites should get a bonus fighting downhill (Claudian Forks)
Romans bonus for flat terrain.
Also after the Polybius reforms, the Accensi and Roararii were done away with.
Murat.. not sure if your being silly or what.. I think it's quite obvious that Zastrow has not gotten to Carthage yet on the new map.... please be patient..
Samnites/Romans will be worked out
.. ok have looked into last bit and you are right.. will pull these two off last Roman list..
It'll be done this weekend.
You have to remember that I have high school work to attend to, as well as other projects. Making the map is sort of a tedious task and I should have it done in a few days. I'm sorry for the slow work on it, but I have lots of thing to do for real life that comes before this.
There is no rush whatsoever.. do what you can.. when you can..
Tonight.. after working with my Diadoch models.. I will begin looking at putting together some initial models for RoR.. I think I'm going to shoot for a Scutarri initially..
Alright... here is my first try at a Spanish Scutarii.. he is missing his shield for now.. but I already have got an image to cover that in game... I used a reference image from a book here at home....
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18303
Have a great source of images of early roman soldiers.. may put together a few more models in the near future... I also found an excellent source for all the unit icons and review panel images.. so this area is fully covered..
Marshal Murat
09-10-2004, 12:29
Just ignorance on my part.
Love the Spanish man. you should use the same model for Iberian cavalry.
Also if the reference is a large book named something like Hannibal and Romes Enemies, its a good book, if not, look for it.
Most of the Iberians weren't really mercenaries by the time of the second Punic War, they were levies recruited from the Iberian tribes under Carthage's dominance, I wouldn't classify them as mercenaries.
Going to a concert tonight and then having a friend over Saturday, work on the map will have to be delayed till Sunday, sorry.
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