An apology to JAG dirested by Saturnas

[Devastatin Dave]

Since I can't post in the backroom anymore, I just wanted to apologize to JAG for calling me a racist in this thread..

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=35293

I'm glad that a person of your moral fiber called me something like a racist, because with terrorist, child molesting supporting persons such as yourself, I find your name calling a compliment.

And Saturnus, good luck with your "moderation". Funny word "moderation". It is close to "moderate" meaning in the middle, something you obviously know nothing about. Truthfully niether do I, but I don't have the rights to ban folks now do I to silence their opinions.

"This is an information in regard of your demotion at TotalWar.org:



Dave,

It took some time for us, but now the consequences of your behaviour
have
come. Your posting style has reached a new low lately. I´m not gone
list all
your misbehaviour, but especially your outbursts at JAG have been the
worst
posts I´ve ever seen at this board. Maybe rivaled by squippy´s. I don´t
care
what reasons you have for that, such things are inacceptable and simply
don´t happen here. Since warnings seem not to have an effect on you, we
have
to take harsher actions. You are demoted to Senior Patron and are no
longer
allowed to post in the Backroom. The other areas of the Org are still
open
to you.

On a more personal note: We have given you chance after chance and this
is
how you thank us! I do not deny that your presence at the Tavern has
been
enriching it, but I will not tolerate that members are treated like you
have
done in a forum where I´m Moderator. I´m personally disappointed by you
and
within the staff, I´ll vote against your reentry into the Backroom as
long
as I don´t have a clear sign of lasting improvement. It´ll be some hard
work
to convince me. A serious apology to JAG would be a good start.

I wish you well.

Saturnus"

So there's my apology. ~:joker:
I'm sure this will be deleted and edited so it doesn't upset the tranquility of the ORG.

Hey squippy, congratulations, you lasted longer than I did!!! ~:joker:

[Sjakihata]

PM = Private Message, I think the keyword here is private...


~:rolleyes:

[A.Saturnus]

Hmm, you misspelled my name in the title.

[KukriKhan]

It's good to see that Devastatin Dave is on the road to recovery: not a single f-bomb, or X-rated description of a sex act. Still have to work on those flames and personal attacks - but hey!, it's only been a couple of days. Keep trying, m8.

Side note: never put anything anywhere on the internet that you'd not like to see on tomorrow's NY Times front page - there is no privacy on the 'net, as has been demonstrated above.

[JAG]

It is strange seeing you scream blue murder at the mods because that is pretty much exactly what I did when I was demoted for what I preceived as nothing. I guess it just highlights to me the hard job they do have and that we should try and respect them a bit more than we generally do in the backroom. I would also like to say sorry to them if I did cause offence.

Dave I understand that your very pee'd off at the moment, I would too in your position. But don't let your emotions control you too much, I am sure you will regret this post in a few days time and the damage would have already been done, I don't want to see you gone from the tavern. For the record you don't need to apologise to me, I do not take offence at any personal comment or any other comment on these boards, so don't feel like you need to. I probably did push the mods to dicipline you because I was taken aback more than anything with a few of your posts at me, as I would not say that about someone of whom I didn't even know. But I never wanted you gone from the tavern, understand that was never on my mind and I hope that still that isn't what happens.

Cool down a bit mate before posting anymore here.

[John86]

Since I can't post in the backroom anymore, I just wanted to apologize to JAG for calling me a racist in this thread..

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=35293

A serious apology to JAG would be a good start.



Hmm. Well i looked in the thread Dev showed and i really dont see anything that should have gotten him demoted.

Well Saturn, i think you should pm Jag and tell him to give a "serious apology" to everyone he called racist, dumb, or a stupid "kiddie conservative". If you like i will post the threads where Jag constantly flamed (if wi can find them) against anyone religious, conservative or young, and the mods did nothing about it. Im sure there are many here that will agree with me.

[JAG]

If you think nothing happened to me you need to open your eyes.

If you think that the material which was the cause of this has not been deleted / edited and was only in that thread, you also need to open your eyes.

Why oh why must you try and turn this into a flame war thread Hiji, it solves nothing

[Hosakawa Tito]

Such a backhanded non apology, a private message would have sufficed rather than this. A private message to convey your F bombs etc..., instead of posting them for all to see, would have helped avoid the demotion also. But then, what's the point if one can't "play to the crowd" eh? I suggest some of you use the ignore/enemy button and just avoid talking to the people you can't stand, instead of this Three Stooges routine.

Hiji , the worst of what was said has been saved, and then edited out of the public thread. It would be considered "normal" interaction in a jailhouse setting, but completely unacceptable here. Not that it's any of your business , but both parties have been dealt with.

[Navaros]

since this is a public discussion i will throw my 2 cents in:

i am not happy that Dave got demoted.

it is my belief that if we are mature, intelligent people, then there is no need to silence any opinions, no matter how controversial. God didn't give any of us the "moral authority" to silence things that we do not like to hear. it is inherently unfair that certain things are silenced here, yet other even more offensive things are not. "offensive" of course is a subjective term, but it is subjective to all of us, not just some. even to Moderators and Admins. that is why having rules that silence certain comments because they are "offensive" can never truly be fair.

now, don't get me wrong. i realize the Mods have the legal authority and are within their rights to silence whatever they want to. i'm not disputing that. to quote a wise Klingon Diplomat: "just because we can do a thing, it does not follow that we must do that thing." which IMO applies to this situation: yes the Mods can silence people, but that doesn't mean that they should .

on a final note, JAG is not exactly a "pillar of morality" himself. i have witnessed occasions of JAG making personal attacks on other members. hence, it is especially unfair to silence Dave for the very same thing that JAG has done, yet JAG does not get silenced as well.

[lancelot]

Isnt that 'can do a thing' line in Starship troopers as well? And which Klingon was it who said that? I dont recall.....not that its important at all really....sigh.

[KukriKhan]

Point of order: Dave has not been "silenced"; he started this thread. He is being denied posting priviledges in the Tavern.

JAG has 'done his time' in the time-out box as well, it simply wasn't made public. Just as Dave's time-out wouldn't have been made public; he chose that. Hence this discussion.

As always, moderator actions are performed mostly behind the scenes; we try persuading, cajoling, joking, whatever-it-takes, to insure compliance with the forum rules that all here agreed to abide by when we registered. Usually, that 'persuasive' approach works, and members fix whatever the problem was. Other times, 'persuasive' doesn't work, and stricter sanctions are applied.

I'm sorry you are unhappy, Navaros. Me too. I want the Org to be a place where members respect each other in their words, and afford each member the personal dignity they deserve. Someday, we'll have that.

[Beirut]

It's a shame the Dave is out, for the more opnions the better. But without a doubt there must be a moderated level of discourse lest this forum degenerate into anarchy.

Forums that have no standards are the least interesting. Having enforced standards of behaviour encourages people to think and chose the best words to suit the argument, as opposed to the easiest words, which often are little more than comments about the other person's mother.

I'm looking forward to Dave coming back. I don't agree with much of what he says, but he absolutely should be here saying it.

[Devastatin Dave]

Point of order: Dave has not been "silenced"; he started this thread. He is being denied posting priviledges in the Tavern.

JAG has 'done his time' in the time-out box as well, it simply wasn't made public. Just as Dave's time-out wouldn't have been made public; he chose that. Hence this discussion.

As always, moderator actions are performed mostly behind the scenes; we try persuading, cajoling, joking, whatever-it-takes, to insure compliance with the forum rules that all here agreed to abide by when we registered. Usually, that 'persuasive' approach works, and members fix whatever the problem was. Other times, 'persuasive' doesn't work, and stricter sanctions are applied.

I'm sorry you are unhappy, Navaros. Me too. I want the Org to be a place where members respect each other in their words, and afford each member the personal dignity they deserve. Someday, we'll have that.

Great post, I deserved my banning. And no, I'm not sorry. JAG and I have gone back and forth forever and a day. Does it mean I hate him, hell no, he's a great guy and I've promised him that if he's ever in the States, he can saty at my house and I'm going to take him on a tour to some Civil War battle fields. We both know what gets under out skins and we both, I'm sure, enjoy the rhetorical boxing match. I said some real harsh stuff in the thread that Goof and JAG called me a racist in, it got edited. So after that, I went on the attack. That's just me. Maybe its better that the mods keep me out of the Tavern. So JAG, I'm sorry i hit under the belt a few times, but I'm sure you liked it!!! ~:argue:

Sat, sorry I mispelled your name!!! ~:joker:

Everyone knows the sort of hot headed irrational posts I make at times and considering this is the God knows how many times I've been banned or warned, the mods are doing the right thing.

I'm the dirty underbelly of the extreme right. For that, I deserve much of what i recieve because I dish out some real filth. So I'm well deserved in my banning and could use the vacation.

Am I apologizing? Nope, just keepin it real my niggahs!!! Word to yo mutha :afro:

Peace!!! :bow:

[ICantSpellDawg]

its a retard frenzy in here

sorry to see you go

[Fragony]

PM = Private Message, I think the keyword here is private...


~:rolleyes:

Ha says who! I can still remember this little incident with private messages ~;)

[Demon of Light]

I´m personally disappointed by you
and
within the staff, I´ll vote against your reentry into the Backroom as
long
as I don´t have a clear sign of lasting improvement.

I wish you well.

Saturnus"




Just a procedural question but I had no idea that votes were taken to reinstate a demoted individual. How often and under what cicumstances?

[Mount Suribachi]

God knows how many times I've been banned or warned

Why does banning Dave remind me of The Great Escape where they keep putting Steve McQueen in solitary? ~D

~:handball:

~:handball:

~:handball:

~:handball:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Dave,
I hear you loud and clear, and untill this is resolved, I shall no longer post in the backroom myself because I have done 10x worse than you in posting etiquite (barring the X-rated stuff) so I was wondering "Why wasn't I banned?"
-Capo

[ICantSpellDawg]

i dont want you guys to leave in reality - who would counter the absolute garbage and broken understandings of our mutual enemies?

[Sjakihata]

Ha says who! I can still remember this little incident with private messages ~;)

LOL ~D

[Hosakawa Tito]

Demon of Light , Kukri, Saturnus, and I always discuss issuance of warnings and/or demotions on a case by case basis. However, in regards to demotion we don't have the final say, that is up to the admins. We present the case, our recommendations, then it's out of our hands. Irregardless, each and every patron is in control of the entire situation. Your actions/deeds determine how things play out. It's like I tell the cons in the jail I work at, "I didn't put you here, YOU put you here."

Capo , ever hear the expression "feed them enough rope and they hang themselves" ? None of the moderators want, enjoy, get off on issuing warnings and/or presenting a patron to administration for possible demotion. As Kukri has stated,
As always, moderator actions are performed mostly behind the scenes; we try persuading, cajoling, joking, whatever-it-takes, to insure compliance with the forum rules that all here agreed to abide by when we registered. Usually, that 'persuasive' approach works, and members fix whatever the problem was. Other times, 'persuasive' doesn't work, and stricter sanctions are applied. It's a hell of a lot of work to read the volumes of posts in here, and then write pm's to those that are breaking forum rules and try to get them to comply, and that's before any serious action has to take place for the recalcitrant ones. Ask yourself, why do we bother?
Wouldn't it be easier to just be petty tyrants and "off with their heads, who gives a damn"?
Figure it out.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

What the hell are you on about now, hosa?
I really have no Idea what your talking about.
Whatever, have your fun confusing me.

[Shahed]

You reap what you sow.

[Devastatin Dave]

You reap what you sow.

Exactly...
Capo, thanks for your support, but keep posting in the Backroom. I got what I deserved. Please don't get rude to Tito, if you could see the MANY warnings he has personally given to me you'd support the decision. I've kept the Mods busy every since I've been in the Tavern, so I am sure they can use the vacation as well. Well, they still be working hard since Capo WILL continue to post in the backroom!!! ~:joker:

But I think this thread can be productive because it can give an inside look to the less contriversal posters or would be mods on how the mods deal with the more contriversal members such as myself. So I hope the members ask proper questions and listen and understand the answers.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I still dont know what hosa was on about...
Ok, Dave. I'll *try* to temporarly take your place (double posts wohoo!)

[Hosakawa Tito]

Capo , you wondered aloud why you were not demoted. Taking Dave's place (behavior-wise) is the surest path to having that unpleasant event take place. I'm not familiar with your latest screw up, I was "out of action" that week. However, receive 5 formal warnings and your demoted for a minimum of 2 days, the gravity of your misdeeds will of course determine if more time, more quickly is in order. Everyone makes mistakes LEARN FROM THEM, but if you constantly push the boundaries of acceptable behavior, you just may find yourself demoted. I don't want that, I don't think you do either. That's what I'm "on about". Is that plain enough?

[Devastatin Dave]

Good explaination Tito. Capo, if you could see the amount of email warnings that the mods have sent me and the mulitple chances that were given to me, you'd understand more why I was demoted. Like I said before, use my experience constructively. When posting be strong but not too harsh. A rock breaks the same whether beaten with a hammer or placed in a gentle stream. Just look at the approach that Redleg takes. Believe me, its hard not to attack and go for the throat, but you can achieve your arguement with the same devastation with careful, surgical arguements.

[Ser Clegane]

That's what I like about this board - even if things get ugly in some heated discussions (which does not happen too often), in 90% of these cases I have the feeling that after people have let off some steam and chilled out a bit, we have somehow made a step forward. ~:)

[ah_dut]

Well if anyone sees thisboard as a bit too heated they need to take a visit to the ever flaming .com, i've given up on it, too many fanboys. anyways Good luck to you all.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

My latest screw up was back on september 1st wen I used cencored versions of the word f*** in a post, a rant more like it, but I didn't get a warning. Also, before that my record has nearly been spotless this summer.

Also, ok, now I getcha. I was just saying that I have been in a situation similar to Dave
("racist" comments, flame wars, etc. and although I did not read Daves posts, I assume that I have done nearly the same thing and have not been demoted. thats all.

And why are you being so hostile Hosa, what did i say THIS time?

[Teutonic Knight]

'I fought the law and the.... law won'

It's nice that you guys are rebels with a cause and all but how is it that I've been able to express my conservative viewpoint and have never recieved so much as a pm warning for my posts? I doubt Redleg or Pindar have either. I think there may be some distinct differences in our posting styles, maybe not for the better in y'alls case. You can't beat the law guys ~;)

[Odysseus]

And why is this thread still up?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

because it still serves a pourpose.

[Devastatin Dave]

'I fought the law and the.... law won'

It's nice that you guys are rebels with a cause and all but how is it that I've been able to express my conservative viewpoint and have never recieved so much as a pm warning for my posts? I doubt Redleg or Pindar have either. I think there may be some distinct differences in our posting styles, maybe not for the better in y'alls case. You can't beat the law guys ~;)

Exactly. But sometimes I'm a rebel without a cause!!! I'm a very hard headed person and very opinionated and have NEVER been abdle to use tact with much success. That's why I'm an E-5 with almost 10 years in the Air Force!!! ~:joker: When I say things, a lot of the times, I don't quite take a gentle aproach to it. Just ask some of my troops!!!

Capo, I don't thing that Tim was being hostile. He stated why and you kind of shot back. Read what he wrot and what you wrote again, you'll see. Sometimes it takes someone from outside of a disagreement to see the tone. I'm such a hypocrite!!! ~:rolleyes: But I that's just who I am. Yes, I'll admit I'm a bit self rightous and always want the last word, but as we all can see, sometimes its better to choose your battles carefully.

Back to the moderation. Could one of the mods explain the process of how the moderators deliberate corrective action against violators? In my case, and in the case of repeat offenders, does the leash get shorter and shorter? Thanks for the insight thus far....

[Admin]

Hello,



and although I did not read Daves posts, I assume that I have done nearly the same thing and have not been demoted. thats all.




..myself because I have done 10x worse than you in posting etiquite

~:confused:


Dave
It's pretty likely to happen when things spiral down. But it's a case by case thing and viewed from different angles in staff PM discussions. Your haircolor is irrelevant.

[Fragony]

I am deeply disturbed that after all the trolling I have only received a warning once, and it didn't even come with a yellow card. I thought I was worth more then that ~:pissed: Maybe I should resort to personal attacks as well, may the rats eat your eyes!!!!!!

[Admin]

We'll implement an e-shop shortly. You can purchase yellow cards for only 1,000 e-gold to cheer up your account. Demotions will be 2,000 and 2-weeks bans 20,000.

Nederlanders kunnen ook 100 euro overmaken ~:joker:

[Teutonic Knight]

I'll have a demotion, will you take credit cards? ~:joker:

[ah_dut]

Au contraire TK does Tosa accept transfers ti and from swiss bank accounts, i'll have a two week ban hehe ~:joker: ~:joker:

[Devastatin Dave]

Hell, I'll just sell you guys some of mine. Just come on down to "Dave's Discount Yellow Cards and Warning Store". We're open 24 hours/7 days a week. Your one stop shop for right wing propaganda and tea bagging suggestions for multiple family members!!! ~:joker:

[Hosakawa Tito]

My latest screw up was back on september 1st wen I used cencored versions of the word f*** in a post, a rant more like it, but I didn't get a warning. Also, before that my record has nearly been spotless this summer.

Also, ok, now I getcha. I was just saying that I have been in a situation similar to Dave
("racist" comments, flame wars, etc. and although I did not read Daves posts, I assume that I have done nearly the same thing and have not been demoted. thats all.

And why are you being so hostile Hosa, what did i say THIS time?


I am not being hostile toward you Capo. I'm trying to steer you away from unacceptable posting behavior in the forum. I much prefer to reason with you than to have you demoted. I believe you are reading something into my words that isn't intended to be there.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

JAG and I have gone back and forth forever and a day. Does it mean I hate him, hell no, he's a great guy and I've promised him that if he's ever in the States, he can saty at my house and I'm going to take him on a tour to some Civil War battle fields. We both know what gets under out skins and we both, I'm sure, enjoy the rhetorical boxing match.

I thought Jag was my nemisis. Way to go Jag ~:joker: I though have learned to control my animal instincts ~D

You guys need a sense of humor. I look on Dave as the Howard Stern ov conservatism. Hes so over the top you cant take him serious. Come on admit it he cracks you before you get pissed.


Why does banning Dave remind me of The Great Escape where they keep putting Steve McQueen in solitary?

Exaclty :laugh4:


I've been able to express my conservative viewpoint and have never recieved so much as a pm warning for my posts? I doubt Redleg or Pindar have either

Redleg never got so much as a warning :mad: Ask him about it ~:joker:


As for Pindar I have become convinced he is really just a computer like Hal in 2001.

[Devastatin Dave]

[QUOTE=Gawain of Orkeny]I thought Jag was my nemisis. Way to go Jag ~:joker: I though have learned to control my animal instincts ~D

Well, you are now good buddy since Sat said he'll never let me back into the backroom again!!! ~:joker:

[Redleg]

LOL - I have gotten a few PM's concerning Yellow Cards and even a minor punishment once or twice - the have to wait 2 minutes between posts and no editing.

I normally don't get to offensive unless someone's over the top comment gets my temper and emotions up. Other then that I try to use reason - before emotion. But even then I sometimes go to emotion in my response - especially given some comments by certain individuals in the tavern.

[KukriKhan]

D.Dave wrote: "...since Sat said he'll never let me back into the backroom again!!!

He said 'never'? Not what I read here, in the PM you publicly posted. I thought his conditions for your restored status where the reason you started this thread....to make fun of your demotion and the obviously humorless, over-reactive mods.

Sheesh.

[A.Saturnus]

Dave, I couldn´t care less whether you think I´m biased. You know, you´re in good company. You can get worked up about our Moderation if that makes you happy. My concern is the state the Tavern is in. And I consider it my job to make sure that people who want to hang out in the Tavern don´t have to read posts like the one I had to delete. That post was of the kind that makes members leave and never return. Since all actions we took against you before were obviously in vain, tell me what choice we have to prevent such things from happen? That´s why I for one, don´t consider your demotion as a simple time out after that you can go on like before. What I wanna see is a lasting change. Either a change in your behaviour or in your presence. I would prefer the first option, but the choice is yours.

[Devastatin Dave]

Dave, I couldn´t care less whether you think I´m biased. You know, you´re in good company. You can get worked up about our Moderation if that makes you happy. My concern is the state the Tavern is in. And I consider it my job to make sure that people who want to hang out in the Tavern don´t have to read posts like the one I had to delete. That post was of the kind that makes members leave and never return. Since all actions we took against you before were obviously in vain, tell me what choice we have to prevent such things from happen? That´s why I for one, don´t consider your demotion as a simple time out after that you can go on like before. What I wanna see is a lasting change. Either a change in your behaviour or in your presence. I would prefer the first option, but the choice is yours.

Man, who pissed in your pourage this morning!!! ~D
I've already went through the situation, so I'm not going to go through it again. You sit back and let everyone on the left call people whatever they want then you jump in when someone on the right stands up against the flame. So, yes, you're biased and the fact that you posted what you just did shows that you have issues with someone pointing out your bias. So calm down, relax, and continue your "even handed" moderation. Have you even read through this thread? Didn't you see the attempt to be reasonable? Of course you didn't. That would require you to let go of some of your biases. :book:

[Accounting Troll]

This thread makes me worried that one day soon the moderators are going to get fed up with spending their leisure time moderating the tavern, a seemingly thankless task, and recommend to the admin that it should be shut down. And I think it would be a shame if that was to happen.

It seems to me that half the time when the moderators edit some swearing or a flame, they get accused of political bias. I've seen the moderators being accused of being biased against the left on more than one occasion as well, and I have come to think that accusing the moderators of bias is basically like a football manager who blames biased refereeing for the fact that his team is bottom of the league.

[A.Saturnus]

*sigh*

[Goofball]

Man, who pissed in your pourage this morning!!! ~D
I've already went through the situation, so I'm not going to go through it again. You sit back and let everyone on the left call people whatever they want then you jump in when someone on the right stands up against the flame. So, yes, you're biased and the fact that you posted what you just did shows that you have issues with someone pointing out your bias. So calm down, relax, and continue your "even handed" moderation. Have you even read through this thread? Didn't you see the attempt to be reasonable? Of course you didn't. That would require you to let go of some of your biases. :book:It's funny to hear you say that Dave. Only recently I blasted the mods in a private message for my perception of them allowing the conservatives to make hateful, racist remarks freely, but then giving warnings to and editing/deleting the posts of liberals who called the conservatives on their racism and hate.

I guess that means the mods are doing a good job.

If both camps are unhappy with their decisions, they are probably making the right decisions.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

It's funny to hear you say that Dave. Only recently I blasted the mods in a private message for my perception of them allowing the conservatives to make hateful, racist remarks freely, but then giving warnings to and editing/deleting the posts of liberals who called the conservatives on their racism and hate.

I guess that means the mods are doing a good job.

If both camps are unhappy with their decisions, they are probably making the right decisions.
Mods blast LIBERALS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
No offence, but that was hillarious, you made my day

[Ser Clegane]

It seems some kids can be made happy quite easily... ~:handball:

Good for you, Capo.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Oh that American main stream media was as fair and balanced as our beloved moderators ~:cheers:

[Goofball]

Mods blast LIBERALS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
No offence, but that was hillarious, you made my day
Once again Capo, you have made an ignorant statement without any thought to what might really be going on. Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are a lot of warnings/scoldings issued to liberals in the Org that you don't know about because they are done via private message? I guess not.

~:rolleyes:

[Devastatin Dave]

Once again Capo, you have made an ignorant statement without any thought to what might really be going on. Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are a lot of warnings/scoldings issued to liberals in the Org that you don't know about because they are done via private message? I guess not.

~:rolleyes:

Does that mean you got a warning/scolding for calling me a racist? Somehow, I doubt it...

[Papewaio]

I think by looking at this board we should start our own UN.

[Devastatin Dave]

I think by looking at this board we should start our own UN.
Nah, we've got more accomplished than the UN ever has!!! ~D
Ooops, I'm not allowed to state political things anymore since the German Ambasodor has sanctioned me!!! Better pass a resolution quick. Don't worry, I'll give some of you guys some kick backs and pay-offs, then it will really be like the UN!!!

[Goofball]

Does that mean you got a warning/scolding for calling me a racist? Somehow, I doubt it...
In that case no. You want to know why Dave? Two reasons:

1) I didn't say you were a racist, I said your remarks were racist.

2) Your remarks were, undoubtedly, very racist.

I have, however, been issued warnings for using such a violent and destructive weapon as sarcasm.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Christ Goofball, it was a joke...

Stop calling me ignorant because of jokes, I may take offence to it.

Grrr, you really must hate me.

And stop calling DevDave racist. ~;)
-Capo of the Regime of the Arabia aka Stupidus the Prick and the one everyone hates.

[Goofball]

Christ Goofball, it was a joke...

Stop calling me ignorant because of jokes, I may take offence to it.

Grrr, you really must hate me.

And stop calling DevDave racist. ~;)
-Capo of the Regime of the Arabia aka Stupidus the Prick and the one everyone hates.
Another post that shows you paid no attention to what I actually said. I don't hate anybody in the Org. Hate is a very strong, personal, and intimate emotion. Since I have never met you, I couldn't possibly hate you. I do, however, hold some of your ideas in contempt.

[Demon of Light]

Goofball: Consider the relative age difference between you and Capo and then ask yourself if you REALLY want to continue a debate with him.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

proof you despise me.

[Goofball]

Goofball: Consider the relative age difference between you and Capo and then ask yourself if you REALLY want to continue a debate with him.But that's exactly the point, Demon. It would be easy to just say to myself "Oh, he's only a kid who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and therefore he's not worth my time so I'll just ignore him."

But I think that's one of the problems with how young people are treated today, and why so many of them grow up to feel (at best) disenfranchised or (at worst) helpless and violent. In fact, I think Capo is one of the people in the Org who are most worth my time debating with, because he is young enough that some of his views may still be changed.

So, I will continue to debate with Capo. When he expresses points of view that I disagree with, I will say so and challenge him on his ideas. When he says something that I believe is "beyond the pale" (i.e. something that I believe to be racist or hateful), I will clearly and firmly tell him why I believe those kind of remarks are unacceptable, just as I would do with any young person I was having a discussion with.

Right now he thinks I hate and despise him, because he doesn't realize that disapproving of things he says is not the same as disapproving of him. I'm hoping he will figure that difference out soon.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I know the difference, however, after a point, it has become obvious that you hate me and all i beleive in. I don't really care, but at least admit it.

[Devastatin Dave]

In that case no. You want to know why Dave? Two reasons:

1) I didn't say you were a racist, I said your remarks were racist.

2) Your remarks were, undoubtedly, very racist.

I have, however, been issued warnings for using such a violent and destructive weapon as sarcasm.

IN what way did I construde anything racist? It appears to me for you to come to that conclusion from what I said must mean that you yourself has inner beliefs that would bring you to a conclusion of racism on my part. Maybe you should take a closer look into your heart. Once again, this shows that liberals can call people racist or whatever in these forums and not get so much as a look from certain mods. You have to flat out call someone Hitler (if its a liberal doing the name calling or labeling) to have ANYTHING done to you. You and JAG called me a racist, and no matter which way you or JAG or Sat spin it, you guys did it and got away with it. Congratulations.

[Devastatin Dave]

But that's exactly the point, Demon. It would be easy to just say to myself "Oh, he's only a kid who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and therefore he's not worth my time so I'll just ignore him."

But I think that's one of the problems with how young people are treated today, and why so many of them grow up to feel (at best) disenfranchised or (at worst) helpless and violent. In fact, I think Capo is one of the people in the Org who are most worth my time debating with, because he is young enough that some of his views may still be changed.

So, I will continue to debate with Capo. When he expresses points of view that I disagree with, I will say so and challenge him on his ideas. When he says something that I believe is "beyond the pale" (i.e. something that I believe to be racist or hateful), I will clearly and firmly tell him why I believe those kind of remarks are unacceptable, just as I would do with any young person I was having a discussion with.

Right now he thinks I hate and despise him, because he doesn't realize that disapproving of things he says is not the same as disapproving of him. I'm hoping he will figure that difference out soon.

And Capo, if you don't change your views, you are a racist and will not be allowed to post in the Tavern again... ~:)

[LittleGrizzly]

Saturnus is not the .orgs top power if he had made an unfair decision those above him could correct this and his equals could also complain

if you think you are being treated unfairly try sending a PM to Tosa hes a pretty nice guy and pretty fair also (though i think the same about sat when you do not)

don't mean this as i think sats decision was unfair...

personally i like dave and his opinions (well being mostly wrong ~;) ) are usually entertaining and i'd like to see him back, but thats why im not a moderator I not the .org come first....

[Del Arroyo]

Ooh! Ooh! As long as we're disecting everyone's opinion of everyone and everything-- what do you all think of me??

:kiss2:

[tombom]

Ooh! Ooh! As long as we're disecting everyone's opinion of everyone and everything-- what do you all think of me??

:kiss2:
What the ... ?

And saying somebody shouldn't debate with soembody because they're too young is just wrong. I wouldn't want to be treated that way.

[Devastatin Dave]

Ooh! Ooh! As long as we're disecting everyone's opinion of everyone and everything-- what do you all think of me??

:kiss2:

I think you're great!!! ~:cheers:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I think you're great!!! ~:cheers:
If he gets rid of that weird smiley I would agree with you. If not, hes just cool. :bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

Ooh! Ooh! As long as we're disecting everyone's opinion of everyone and everything-- what do you all think of me??

your name is intresting but your post count is really really small.....

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Or maybe it's just that yours is really, really large...

[Teutonic Knight]

This entire thread has become redundant and offensive, it should be closed.

[Devastatin Dave]

I agree with TK, I said what I wanted said, only a couple of the mods participated in making the thread somewhat insightful to how they deal with stuff. I'll go back into my banishment...