Finally got KOTOR

[Fragony]

This game is really great, it may very well be the best rpg I have played so far. Beautifull controls, beautifull voiceacting and interesting, well written characters. I neglected this game for some reason but I am glad I bit the bullet. Best rpg perhaps? Certainly the best Star wars game I played since the first dark forces, it really has this same special star-wars mood that brings a tear to my eye because it makes me feel like I did when I was a kid playing with Star-wars dolls, it is that good. It brings back memories of being angry with my parents because I didn't get a pet baby-Rancor for my birthday (cheap bastards). As you can see I really like this game, if you like either rpg or Starwars or both you can not go wrong really.

:duel:

[The Tuffen]

KOTOR is a great game. I can't wait for the sequel that should be coming out soonish

[DisruptorX]

I picked Kotor up on a whim ealier this year, and it was the most enjoyable rpg i've played since Morrowind. Not the best rpg ever, too linear, but certainly up there. I would recommend it to anyone who enjoys rpg games at all.

[saundersag]

I loved this game aind was addicted to it for quite awhile. Unfortunalty i had a bad experience, i was on the final boss i had got so far. It was just me and Malak. However i kept losing. I resorted to looking in a startegy guide and found out that to beat him i needed an offensive force power. However i tried to be a good jedi and so i had not got any. So it was impossible for me too beat him. The lesson of this tale, succumb to the dark side the light is just small and puny.

[Somebody Else]

No need to go dark. Just mine the place up before you trigger him. Oh, and throwing your glowstick at the comatose jedi helps.

Or you could just be a beast and lay into him mano a mano. Or both. Or none - and run away!

[DisruptorX]

Yea, use saber toss, its a neutral power. I had no problems beating him as light.

[The Tuffen]

He proved harder when i was a light side. When i went back though as a dark side character i beat him easily.

[DisruptorX]

There is no inherent difficulty based upon alignment. He was harder for me as dark, because my dark side character was a "wizard", whilst my light side char was a "fighter".

[Ja'chyra]

I got it about three weeks ago and played it about 4 times, I think if it was any better it would be pants, won't be playing it again

[Navaros]

i found KOTOR to be a mediocre game

IMO it's not horrible, but it's certainly not great either

[Steppe Merc]

I loved it, and can't wait for the next one. I think it was my first pure RPG, and I really got into it. Brilliant. ~D

[Sir Moody]

just use plasma grenades and lots of them the big bad isnt so bad then and ANY fool can lob grenades

a good game but not the Best RPG of all time there are a few that top it - Planescape Torment for one (Graphics arnt everything gentlemen)

while its NPC interation is good some of the characters are rather plain and some of the plot twists in KOTOR are very very predictable call me strange if yo uwill but i dont like predicting how the game will play out as im going through it

[DisruptorX]

a good game but not the Best RPG of all time there are a few that top it - Planescape Torment for one (Graphics arnt everything gentlemen)


Are you somehow insinuating that planescape has bad graphics?

[Navaros]

KOTOR has bad graphics IMO

the only good part of the graphics in KOTOR are the textures and use of anti-aliasing and antistropic filtering

however, the 3D character models in KOTOR do not look right. they are not "filled-out" properly. it's looks like they're "slightly-deflated balloon people" or something. BioWare has never been too good at 3D graphics, and KOTOR did not improve that at all.

not to mention the fact that most of the NPCs look exactly the same as the previous NPCs in the game who had different names.

[Papewaio]

It was like an XBox version of NWN

[Phatose]

I thought the models looked just fine. Animated well too. And to their credit, Bioware at least attempted to make basic combat look interesting. They apparently forgot that most people would be using feats though, which seriously limited it's effectiveness - but it's still a good step. Hopefully in KotOR2, feats will be given the same level of animation - especially on the victim's side- that basic attacks did in KotOR1, and we can finally leave the silly 'you stand still while I slash' "combat" animations prevalent in so many RPGs.

Visually it was great. Plotwise...well, it wasn't anything to write home about, except for that it's Star Wars and it doesn't suck. But, considering how many sucky Star Wars games are out there - and especially considering that the recent Star Wars movies have sucked too - that's something, at least. Some of the dialogue was very entertaining, but honestly I was highly annoyed by the number of times where any dialog choice you made got the exact same response. Still, it was a console RPG which was reminscient of PC stylings, which is always good.

The actually gameplay was passable. Nothing special, it is just d20 rules afterall, but it doesn't have an interface which gets in the way, the the d20 rules are generally pretty well done.


If it wasn't a star wars game, I'd probably call it just above average. But it is a star wars game, and setting counts. I've seen entirely too many forgotten realms games for one lifetime, entirely too many 'original' worlds that are essentially tolkien ripoffs, and entirely too many japanese rpgs where the worlds just aren't interesting for it not to count. And that's enough to tip it from above average to great in my book.

[Sir Moody]

Are you somehow insinuating that planescape has bad graphics?

well yes when compared to KOTOR but the good thing about planescape is it doesnt need graphics its plot is second to none its characters are incredible complex and well fleshed out and the World its set in is completely unique this is what makes it so great

[econ21]

Whoa, lots of lukewarm feedback on this game. I see it among as one of the best (few?) in the Fallout/Baldur's Gate tradition of epic CRPGs. Strong underlying story arc, interesting side quests, vivid NPCs, lots of stats n stuff, decent tactical combat... Voice acting and visuals very good for a CRPG. Don't know what more CRPGers want...

[DisruptorX]

Don't listen to the people who claim that Kotor has bad graphics, that is the most asinine thing I have ever heard, and completely irrelevant. If you are playing an rpg for graphics, you are playing it for the wrong reason. But aside from that, Kotor has stunning graphics, some of the best out there, they are so good that I will have to say that those who claim otherwise are lying.

[Slyspy]

Quite right. What are Total War fans doing bitching about minor graphical faults? So many double standards! The game played well, looked good and sounded fine. However plot wise it was average and only the star wars background saved it. Also the final battle was poor and easily won.

[econ21]

I suspect opinions on plot and difficulty are very subjective.

I found the combat throughout the game a little unchallenging compared to, say, Baldurs Gate or Fallout (i.e. I died less). But it was not too bad. The last battle was just right for me - I died a couple of times before cracking it. I did not use grenades or anything out of character, just tried light sabering with a pretty optimised guardian. I knew about the trick requiring particular force powers, but even so Malak was pretty tough. I suspect (fear?) KOTOR2 will ramp up the difficulty a bit (seems to be a trend with sequels).

I've got to say, I found the plot first-rate. Some people have said it was better than most Star Wars movies and I've got to agree. It had a kind of Empire strikes back feel to it, which was the only one of the films I really rate. Even though the twist had been spoilt for me, my jaw still hit the ground when the revealing cut scene was played - it was just done so well. Racing around for star charts did nothing for me, I admit, but Bioware seems to like that kind of thing (NWN OC Chapter 1, anyone?). Personally, I think Bioware could benefit from a little more (Japanese RPG style) linearity in their games - for example, the Spellhold-Underdark story arc in BG2 was excellent. However, I know I am in a minority and CRPGers seem to like non-linearity.

[Navaros]

i think some of you guys are unaware of what a modern 3D character which was made by a true 3D professional looks like.

without having this awareness, one might think that KOTOR's graphics are good

with this awareness, however, it becomes quite clear that the 3D models in KOTOR are very sub-par

[Fragony]

i think some of you guys are unaware of what a modern 3D character which was made by a true 3D professional looks like.

without having this awareness, one might think that KOTOR's graphics are good

with this awareness, however, it becomes quite clear that the 3D models in KOTOR are very sub-par

Graphics are not why I like rpg games, but I have to admit that I am very easy to please when it comes to visuals.

[Phatose]

i think some of you guys are unaware of what a modern 3D character which was made by a true 3D professional looks like.

without having this awareness, one might think that KOTOR's graphics are good

with this awareness, however, it becomes quite clear that the 3D models in KOTOR are very sub-par


So clue us in then. A link or comparison would be handy, especially one accompanied by a commentary on feasibility in an engine which has to render as much as KotOR does.

[DisruptorX]

i think some of you guys are unaware of what a modern 3D character which was made by a true 3D professional looks like.

without having this awareness, one might think that KOTOR's graphics are good

with this awareness, however, it becomes quite clear that the 3D models in KOTOR are very sub-par

That is a ridiculous argument.

Here is the real standard by which games are judged: How good they look. Kotor looks amazing. It is one of the best looking video games out there. I honestly don't understand how you can claim it looks bad. What are you comparing it to?

Not to mention that argument is completely irrelevant. I don't play games for their graphics. Example: Medieval: Total War, which uses obsolete sprites and primitive 3d.

[Sir Moody]

if you want to STRICTLY compare graphics compre to games such as Far Cry and Doom 3 where KOTOR comes outbadly

BUT ull notice both far cry and doom 3 are 3d shooters where graphics are always pushing where as a RPG DOESNT need to be tip top - the Graphics in most RPGs are Average and always will be just like the Graphics in most RTS - you dont buy a RPG to look at the prety monsters you buy it to play a story (something most 3d shooters couldnt find with a barge pole)

[Basileus]

One of the best games from last year, im preety sure the KOTOR2 wont be as good as the first mostly because its not bioware thats making it..who knows i might be wrong heh

[DisruptorX]

One of the best games from last year, im preety sure the KOTOR2 wont be as good as the first mostly because its not bioware thats making it..who knows i might be wrong heh

It is being made by Obsidian entertainment which = a number of people from black ilse. I.E. a company that was ten times better than bioware.

[Slyspy]

I still say the plot was a little lame. The "twist" was obvious from the very beginning, stealing bits as it did from Star Wars, Planescape and so many other sources.

[DisruptorX]

I still say the plot was a little lame. The "twist" was obvious from the very beginning, stealing bits as it did from Star Wars, Planescape and so many other sources.

I didn't think the plot twist was obvious at all. I didn't see it coming, but then, no one told me there was one to begin with.

[Navaros]

if you want to STRICTLY compare graphics compre to games such as Far Cry and Doom 3 where KOTOR comes outbadly

BUT ull notice both far cry and doom 3 are 3d shooters where graphics are always pushing where as a RPG DOESNT need to be tip top - the Graphics in most RPGs are Average and always will be just like the Graphics in most RTS - you dont buy a RPG to look at the prety monsters you buy it to play a story (something most 3d shooters couldnt find with a barge pole)

you could jump well below the Far Cry and Doom 3 graphical bar and still come up with 5-year-old titles that have better-looking 3D character models in them than KOTOR does (i'm talking about form/shape/depth and proportional scale to the in-game environment etc., not textural detail)

i agree that graphics in RPGs are not the most important thing. i'm only arguing this point cuz some guys in this thread don't seem to notice the discrepancies in KOTOR's graphics and are hailing them as being great even tho when compared to industry standards before and at the time of KOTOR's release, they are not so great after all.

[DisruptorX]

you could jump well below the Far Cry and Doom 3 graphical bar and still come up with 5-year-old titles that have better-looking 3D character models in them than KOTOR does (i'm talking about form/shape/depth and proportional scale to the in-game environment etc., not textural detail)


I'm really trying to not sound like an ass here, but for someone who "knows" graphics, you are displaying a great deal of ignorance.

Here, let me pull of couple of games that were state of the art 4-5 years ago out of a hat:
Soldier of Fortune
Deus Ex

Neither of those games have 3d models with fingers, so your argument is dead already.

There is no opinion here, the character models in those games look primitive and goofy compared to kotor, as do the character models in Morrowind (it has the best environments i've ever seen though), which came out in 2002.

Of course, poly count and shape have nothing to do with how good a game looks. You are confusing asthetics and technology, two very different things. The environments in Morrowind look much better than those in Doom 3 from an asthetic point of view, but one cannot argue that they look better from a technological point of view.

This of course is moot, as Kotor is amazing from both. Your argument appears to be: "low poly count = bad graphics". Correct me if you feel I misrepresented you.

[Navaros]

Neither of those games have 3d models with fingers, so your argument is dead already.




the fingers in KOTOR are not much better. if memory serves, all the female characters use the exact same fingers and "finger gestures". they just gave the hands a different "skin" for each one.

it's cool the first time you see an unimportant Twi'Lek girl do a "finger gesture". then when you start seeing that exact same gesture done by Bastila, Bastila's mom, Mission etc. etc. - it becomes quite clear that "fingers" are certainly not a strong point for KOTOR

i'm not really a "techical" guy when it comes to knowing things like why KOTOR's graphics like so "off". i just know that they do indeed look "off" and much more visually 'immerseful' 3D characters exist in just about any other 3D game, even ones released way before KOTOR

[amir]

KotOR is a great game, cant wait to KotOR 2.
but it has only one problem: its too damn short!!!
but beside that its the best RPG i ever played, also have you finish it?
if not i can tell you the game secret

***SPOILER**************






YOU ARE REVAN







***SPOILER*****************













i love spoiling!

EDIT: We have spoiler tags on this forum, please use them.

[BDC]

It was a tad linear...

[Xiahou]

(oooooo... thread necromancy :skull: )

The thread title seemed very appropriate since I finally got KotoR almost 2 weeks ago, after seeing it for $15, and have since played through and won the game with a Lightside/male character. I liked it, but I thought the ending was a bit disappointing. I would've liked a little more resolution with some of the chacters- what of the Sith characters that I turned to the light? What about the Bastila romance? ect.... All we get in the ending is just a medal-pinning scene. :shrug:

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen? Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

I know a lot of people hear played the game, so any info would be great. :beam:

[discovery1]

(oooooo... thread necromancy :skull: )

The thread title seemed very appropriate since I finally got KotoR almost 2 weeks ago, after seeing it for $15, and have since played through and won the game with a Lightside/male character. I liked it, but I thought the ending was a bit disappointing. I would've liked a little more resolution with some of the chacters- what of the Sith characters that I turned to the light? What about the Bastila romance? ect.... All we get in the ending is just a medal-pinning scene. :shrug:

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen? Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

I know a lot of people hear played the game, so any info would be great. :beam:

KOTOR 2 is a must get. And I can tell you what happens to the Bastila romance, since its explained in #2, although the more subtle points aren't really cleared up except in the broadest way possible.

[Fragony]

Man my haircut what was I thinking back then ~;)

[econ21]

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen?

I don't know - I couldn't do it. I've read some of the evil things you can do and I like the good party members too much to contemplate doing them.

To be honest, I think Kotor struggles in terms of replay value despite being an outstanding game.


Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

Well, I noticed in the favorite games thread that you praise Vampire Bloodlines so you may share my tilt. I thought Kotor2 was excellent - like Bloodlines, it has a much darker mood than kotor1 and is more adult. Just firing up either game and hearing the ominous background music on the game menus sucks me into the respective game worlds. It's sort of like Empire Strikes Back to Kotor1's A New Hope. I think it also has more replay value, in part because there is quite a bit of extra content hidden away with the influence system. I found the sidequests and planets are generally more interesting than in kotor1. The combat is way too easy though. The rushed ending never bothered me - in fact, I think it allowed my imagination more room to play and made the game story prey more on my mind in a way no other game has except System Shock 2.

Bloodlines and kotor2 are my favorite two CRPGs since the glory days of FO2, BG2 and SS2. (Iron law of gaming #2: All great CRPGS must be sequels).

[Xiahou]

I don't know - I couldn't do it. I've read some of the evil things you can do and I like the good party members too much to contemplate doing them. Yeah, me too. The main draw for a darkside character is to use all the dark powers. Having played lightside first, I don't really relish being a **** to (and in some cases, killing) all the characters that I got to know previously.

I thought combat was pretty easy in Kotor1 too. I chose a Jedi guardian with flurry, jedi speed, dual wield, ect and after a few levels in as a jedi the only challenge I faced at all was Malak at the very end. When I fought Malak on the Leviathan, I was totally destroying him- so you can imagine my confusion when Bastila stepped in to "save" me... :inquisitive:


And I can tell you what happens to the Bastila romance, since its explained in #2, although the more subtle points aren't really cleared up except in the broadest way possible.Well, I think I know more or less what's supposed to transpire leading up to the sequel- you go off to fight some unknown menace and disappear, leaving everyone else behind. Is that what you mean, or is there more to it?

Regardless, it sounds like KotoR2 will be well worth the $20 price of admission. To play through it, are the various content mods a 'necessity', or does it stand well enough on it's own?

[Warmaster Horus]

I completely agree with getting the sequel. The comparison is good too: it's Empire Stikes Back to KotOR's New Hope. Just the first environment (which I won't tell you about) shows how "darker" this game is.

There is a mod that's supposed to bring unused content back in the game, but it's not finished yet. There's a link in the KotOR thread (sorry, forgot it).

[Ironside]

Regardless, it sounds like KotoR2 will be well worth the $20 price of admission. To play through it, are the various content mods a 'necessity', or does it stand well enough on it's own?

Stands well on it's own. It's parts of the "endgame" that feels butchered, not the ending itself (although it's intentionally vague in some ways).

Still I never got one point of the ending:
How did Kreia see the "death of the force" in you (the Exile)? I mean compared to the force draining bad guys you don't really do any harm. You seem to rather do a draining on already dead people and possibly empowering them close to you.
But well, I'm not certain that I got the nature of the force in the Exile.

[econ21]

Ironside (I don't think Xiahou should read these spoilers!):

I think the Exile is so traumatised by the destruction of Malachor V that he somehow cuts himself off from the Force. It is that severance of life from the Force which Kreia wants to emulate on a massive scale, causing the death of the Force.

All that is masked and somewhat muddled by the game which, in effect, is the Exile reforging his links with the Force - quite the opposite of what Kreia wants. But at the start of the game, he is supposed to be dead to it - which is what freaks out the Jedi Council; makes Darth Nihilus powerless against him; and attracts Kreia to him.

But don't ask me for much more than that - looking for rationality in fantasy such as Star Wars is kind of missing the point.

[Craterus]

These games on the PS2, or PC only?

[econ21]

They are Xbox and PC, I believe.

[Proletariat]

Definitely grab Kotor 2, X-man. I loved it so much it kicked off a bit of a Star Wars bender and I bought Stars Wars: Best of the PC (kinda blows, but it had a few fun games for a weekend's worth of excitement.)

Thanks to both Simon and your's extolling, I went and got Vampire Bloodlines, and you guys were exactly right about it. I can't believe I waited so long to check it out.

[Xiahou]

Definitely grab Kotor 2, X-man. I loved it so much it kicked off a bit of a Star Wars bender and I bought Stars Wars: Best of the PC (kinda blows, but it had a few fun games for a weekend's worth of excitement.)Already ordered it on Amazon- should be in tomorrow. :2thumbsup:


Thanks to both Simon and your's extolling, I went and got Vampire Bloodlines, and you guys were exactly right about it. I can't believe I waited so long to check it out.Glad you like it- definitely one of the better PC games in recent memory. I probably could still sit down and play through it again. :yes:

[Xiahou]

Ok. So I finally finished KotoR2. I'd say the storyline felt a bit more mature than its prequel, but the end was once again something of a letdown for me. The Ebon Hawk flies off into the distance- that's it? You allies' backstories also seemed to fall apart at the end, leaving a lot of questions. Finally, the Disciple?? Man did he feel tacked on.

Also, Nar Shadaa seemed very buggy for me. Several quests were impossible for me to complete- eventually, I checked gamefaqs to make sure I was doing them right- I was, but they would not complete anyhow. :wall:

Don't get me wrong though, it was a very good game- certainly well worth the $20 I paid for it. Just the few gripes I mentioned kept me from being completely satisfied with it. :bow:

[econ21]

...but the end was once again something of a letdown for me. The Ebon Hawk flies off into the distance- that's it?

The end apparently was rushed/incomplete and has been widely criticised. Personally, it did not bother me much. I thought the Oderon/Telos/Ravager finales were very satisfying. What came after was narratively weak (although in terms of combat provided about the only challenge of the game on hard). But I found the finale conversation with Kreia provided a lot of closure. Maybe I have replayed it so much, the story now seems fairly coherent.


You allies' backstories also seemed to fall apart at the end, leaving a lot of questions.

Did you make them all Jedis (or almost all)? That was rather satisfying. The epilogues were not great, although I liked some (Canderous, Mira).


Finally, the Disciple?? Man did he feel tacked on.

I've always played as a male and so he has barely registered. I imagine Handmaiden is a better companion (she joins males; Disciple joins females) - rather well integrated into the story (interesting relations with Kreia - "Betrayal!" - and Visas) and a formiddable fighter.


Also, Nar Shadaa seemed very buggy for me.

Yeah, I had to reload Nar Shadaa several times in, having to redo several hours. What quests were buggy? For me, failing to remove the two Exchange thugs in the entrance to the refugee sector caused me to fail a lucrative (ie lightsaber reward) quest. Some quests close once you get past a certain point. But I did the fun ones. (Not too bothered if I can't fix a landspeeder).


Don't get me wrong though, it was a very good game- certainly well worth the $20 I paid for it. Just the few gripes I mentioned kept me from being completely satisfied with it. :bow:

You may enjoy coming back to it in a year or so (or if the fans finish their mod to add cut content). I find it more replayable than Kotor - perhaps partly because it leaves you not completely satisfied. I always feel there is more to it than there you get on one run through, thanks to the influence system and the rushed/incoherent parts of the story.

[Xiahou]

I've always played as a male and so he has barely registered. I imagine Handmaiden is a better companion (she joins males; Disciple joins females) - rather well integrated into the story (interesting relations with Kreia - "Betrayal!" - and Visas) and a formiddable fighter.I think I lost out by playing as a female, I think the Handmaiden would've been a much better character. I won KotoR1 as a light-side male guardian, so I thought I'd mix it up and play 2 as a light-side female consular.


Yeah, I had to reload Nar Shadaa several times in, having to redo several hours. What quests were buggy? For me, failing to remove the two Exchange thugs in the entrance to the refugee sector caused me to fail a lucrative (ie lightsaber reward) quest. Some quests close once you get past a certain point. But I did the fun ones. (Not too bothered if I can't fix a landspeeder).Not killing the thugs was one of them. I talked to their leader and convinced him to let up on the refugees, but that apparently wasn't good enough for that quest and the thugs had become un-killable afterwards.

The most glaring was the quest to secure passage for a family off the planet. Once the orbiting ship was dealt with and freighters were free to leave again, I easily completed the quest where you have to get a pilot sponsored for his license. However, when speaking to the exact same dock master about getting the family passage, he would tell me there was nothing he could do while ships were still being high-jacked. :wall:

Also, minor bugs, like bounty hunters you've recruited/killed were still standing around on the planet after the fact. :dizzy:



You may enjoy coming back to it in a year or so (or if the fans finish their mod to add cut content). I find it more replayable than Kotor - perhaps partly because it leaves you not completely satisfied. I always feel there is more to it than there you get on one run through, thanks to the influence system and the rushed/incoherent parts of the story.If team Gizka ever releases their mod, I'm definitely planning on checking it out again. :yes:

[econ21]

I think I lost out by playing as a female, I think the Handmaiden would've been a much better character. I won KotoR1 as a light-side male guardian, so I thought I'd mix it up and play 2 as a light-side female consular.

I'd recommend a male sentinel if you ever do replay it. In Kotor2, skills are very useful. I am not quite sure about the "romantic" dialogue and how it relates to your character's sex, but some of the conversation with Visas and Handmaiden had an enjoyable batsqueak of sexuality - much like the flirting with Bastilla in Kotor1. It was a little embarassing clicking through it with my son watching over my shoulder, but we both had a chuckle at the "Jedi sex" scene with Visas (the protagonist and her sitting across the room, meditating).

[Mailman653]

I saw the game on Steam for $9.99 and figured I'd give a try since I've seen many threads in various places with mostly praise for the game. I would of prefered to get it on console but you can't beat the price of the Steam version.

[Beskar]

Ironside (I don't think Xiahou should read these spoilers!):

I think the Exile is so traumatised by the destruction of Malachor V that he somehow cuts himself off from the Force. It is that severance of life from the Force which Kreia wants to emulate on a massive scale, causing the death of the Force.

All that is masked and somewhat muddled by the game which, in effect, is the Exile reforging his links with the Force - quite the opposite of what Kreia wants. But at the start of the game, he is supposed to be dead to it - which is what freaks out the Jedi Council; makes Darth Nihilus powerless against him; and attracts Kreia to him.

But don't ask me for much more than that - looking for rationality in fantasy such as Star Wars is kind of missing the point.

Just to say, your spoilers were incorrect.

The events on Malachor V caused a void in the force with your character, which makes your character lose its connection. With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection. What freaked out the Jedi council is that you are this abomination, and thus why they try to cut your connections with the force. Darth Nihilus is powerless because Darth Nihilus is exactly the same, except Darth Nihilus became consumed by this void, this in essence, dead, and just sucks on the force of everything. Kreia wanted your character to be her replacement.

[Monk]

Just to say, your spoilers were incorrect.

The events on Malachor V caused a void in the force with your character, which makes your character lose its connection. With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection. What freaked out the Jedi council is that you are this abomination, and thus why they try to cut your connections with the force. Darth Nihilus is powerless because Darth Nihilus is exactly the same, except Darth Nihilus became consumed by this void, this in essence, dead, and just sucks on the force of everything. Kreia wanted your character to be her replacement.

Reading the spoilers from the KOTOR 2 plot reminds me of just how good that game could have been, alas for completely buggy games! :shame:

[Beskar]

I forgot an very important aspect, spoiler wise.

Kreia wanted to use you to kill the force.

[Jolt]

KOTOR is a pretty awesome game. What I hated the most were those malfunctioning droids in Tatooine. Probably due to some bug in my game, if they exploded they always made a very loud and creepy noise that scared me.

[Monk]

After this thread got ressurected it got me thinking about how long it's been since I played through KOTOR. So i reinstalled it on my desktop but ran into a huge problem, its the same problem that I had with MTW. The nvidia gforce 9 series does not play well with KOTOR, more specifically the drivers for it are so "advanced" that the game cannot recognize them. So whenever i tried to play the game I couldn't get it to work for more than 2 min. A little research on the net revealed I would likely have to roll the drivers back four years just to get it to work.. :dizzy2:

Thankfully my laptop is no slouch and is ATI based. With a little patience KOTOR installed and works like a charm, but in truth this experience has really got me reconsidering my choice to buy an nvidia card for my desktop. This makes game number 3 that refused to work on it (the first two were MTW and STW).

[econ21]

Beskar, what you say - to the extent that it differs from what I said - is not how I remember the Kotor II plot. Specifically:


With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection.

I can see that your character does re-forge links with the force using the force energy of others and that Kreia tries to guide you. But I can't recall her being happy at me making them into Jedi - quite the contrary. And I can't square her wanting me to re-forge links with the force with:


Kreia wanted you use you to kill the force.

I guess I am saying that I don't have actually have an answer to Ironside's original question - what was the point of the ending? Maybe I will have to replay the game again? It's almost that time of year again...

[rajpoot]

Reading the spoilers from the KOTOR 2 plot reminds me of just how good that game could have been, alas for completely buggy games! :shame:

They are remedying that.
http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html
If you haven't seen it yet, then check this it. It's still not released, but when it will be, I think it'll make KOTOR 2 better than KOTOR.
They're putting in a lot of stuff cut off from the original release of the game and polishing the whole thing.

[Ironside]

Well, with the memories of that plot returning, I think I got an answer for my own question.

The difference between your void in the force and everyone elses (aka all the baddies) is basically that you're not killing things. And a dead force in a living world is what Kreia wants (might be obvious but the thought haven't fully occured until now). Darth Nihilus slowly drains everything to death and that force draining skill kills the exposed.

But were the exile "fail" is that while you drain force energy, you don't consume it, or to but it otherwise: You're a black whole that instead of sucking the force in (while leaving everyone alive) you keep all that force stuck around you and transfer it to those around you through your bonds.

Kreia tries to make that you automatically expands that hole. thus killing the force, but fails.

[Tratorix]

They are remedying that.
http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html
If you haven't seen it yet, then check this it. It's still not released, but when it will be, I think it'll make KOTOR 2 better than KOTOR.
They're putting in a lot of stuff cut off from the original release of the game and polishing the whole thing.

I wouldn't get your hopes up too high about this, that mod has been stuck at about 95% completion for the last couple of years.

[Jolt]

Two things that are incredibly stupid in all SW games (KOTOR included) is:

1. Ordinary blades can parry Jedi Lightsabers. If anything a Jedi Lightsaber would cut through a steel blade.
2. How the hell can Jedi's even fight for several minutes mandalorians or Spiders or whatever? Heck in the movies they plow through armies easily enough. Though in the games you have to give several blows before a soldier or animal dies. -_-'

(Yes, I'm aware if they the jedis as powerful as in the movies, they would be way overpowered over the rest of the enemies, but hey, that's what being a jedi is all about.)

[Monk]

I wouldn't get your hopes up too high about this, that mod has been stuck at about 95% completion for the last couple of years.

There's a couple of content mods, one I am following is planned for release this month. So we'll see. :yes:

edi: Link or it isn't happening: http://www.deadlystream.com/forumdisplay.php?f=123

Would have linked earlier but I wasn't at home. :thumbsup:

[Tratorix]

Two things that are incredibly stupid in all SW games (KOTOR included) is:

1. Ordinary blades can parry Jedi Lightsabers. If anything a Jedi Lightsaber would cut through a steel blade.
2. How the hell can Jedi's even fight for several minutes mandalorians or Spiders or whatever? Heck in the movies they plow through armies easily enough. Though in the games you have to give several blows before a soldier or animal dies. -_-'

(Yes, I'm aware if they the jedis as powerful as in the movies, they would be way overpowered over the rest of the enemies, but hey, that's what being a jedi is all about.)

They actually explain in the game that all regular swords are made using a ``cortosis weave`` which is supposed to be strong enough to stand up to a lightsaber. It`s not a great in game explanation, but they at least try.

[Azathoth]

It's a perfectly fine explanation.

And the solution to a buggy KOTOR or KOTOR 2 is to just get them for the Xbox. :yes:

[Tratorix]

It's a perfectly fine explanation.

And the solution to a buggy KOTOR or KOTOR 2 is to just get them for the Xbox. :yes:

KOTOR 2 is still fairly buggy on xbox. My main problem with two wasn't the bugs, but the obviously cut content and the way it retconned every choice you made in the first game away in the first hour.

[Jolt]

They actually explain in the game that all regular swords are made using a ``cortosis weave`` which is supposed to be strong enough to stand up to a lightsaber. It`s not a great in game explanation, but they at least try.

Provided he can do this (5:46) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ubWWqK0Sc) to a steel (Steel? Or something even more durable?) blast door of several inches of thickness in such a short time notice, I can't see how a thin layer of metal as a sword can be gigantically resistent to a lightsaber. >__> Also, those scenes show perfectly enough how two Jedi's dispose of dozens of enemies in 10 or so seconds, while in Kotor you to kill 4 enemies, you take some minute of fighting and parrying. >__<

[Beskar]

They are remedying that.
http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html
If you haven't seen it yet, then check this it. It's still not released, but when it will be, I think it'll make KOTOR 2 better than KOTOR.
They're putting in a lot of stuff cut off from the original release of the game and polishing the whole thing.

That is very out of date. It hasn't been touched for over two years or so.

[Monk]

Provided he can do this (5:46) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ubWWqK0Sc) to a steel (Steel? Or something even more durable?) blast door of several inches of thickness in such a short time notice, I can't see how a thin layer of metal as a sword can be gigantically resistent to a lightsaber. >__> Also, those scenes show perfectly enough how two Jedi's dispose of dozens of enemies in 10 or so seconds, while in Kotor you to kill 4 enemies, you take some minute of fighting and parrying. >__<

Cortosis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cortosis) is an element in the SW universe that is so strong it's able to withstand the incredible force of a lightsaber. I first remember it mentioned in the Jedi Outcast games. The reason everything isn't made out of cortosis is that it's "rare".

Doesn't mean it's believable, but hey, at least Bioware didn't make it up on the spot. It's a well established silly thing. :laugh4:

[Tratorix]

Provided he can do this (5:46) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ubWWqK0Sc) to a steel (Steel? Or something even more durable?) blast door of several inches of thickness in such a short time notice, I can't see how a thin layer of metal as a sword can be gigantically resistent to a lightsaber. >__> Also, those scenes show perfectly enough how two Jedi's dispose of dozens of enemies in 10 or so seconds, while in Kotor you to kill 4 enemies, you take some minute of fighting and parrying. >__<

As Monk said, cortosis makes sense in the contaxt of the game. Besides, by the end of the game you hack up enemies in no time at all. It only takes time if you don't use any force powers or abilities and just stick with basic attacks. Also, remember that you don't start the game as a fully trained Jedi.

[Mailman653]

I've been glued to the game since I bought it two days ago and I've barely started to get into the thick of things, best 9.99 I've spent so far.

[Krauser]

The nvidia gforce 9 series does not play well with KOTOR, more specifically the drivers for it are so "advanced" that the game cannot recognize them. So whenever i tried to play the game I couldn't get it to work for more than 2 min. A little research on the net revealed I would likely have to roll the drivers back four years just to get it to work.. :dizzy2:


I got it to work with Geforce 9800GT. It still crashes occasionally. I found a site with other people having trouble. The two things I did was add a line to the ini to disable vertex buffer stuff. I then replaced one of the DLLs with a fan-made one. Everything seems to work after that except occasional crashes (display driver has stopped working). They recommended also installed Directx 9 next to Directx 10, but crashes have gone down enough I don't feel like doing that now.

There's also a mod that let's you use widescreen resolutions, but I don't use it. I like to use windowed mode. Easier to get out of crashes.

I have plenty of games that don't recognize the video driver but they still work somehow.

[Mailman653]

I have a 9400 and I haven't had a single crash yet, I've even alt-tab several times and haven't had any problems.

[Monk]

I'm on a 9600 GT and can't get beyond the first 2 minutes of gameplay before a crash. Mid-way through the Endar Spire to be exact, it always seems to kill it.


I got it to work with Geforce 9800GT. It still crashes occasionally. I found a site with other people having trouble. The two things I did was add a line to the ini to disable vertex buffer stuff. I then replaced one of the DLLs with a fan-made one. Everything seems to work after that except occasional crashes (display driver has stopped working). They recommended also installed Directx 9 next to Directx 10, but crashes have gone down enough I don't feel like doing that now.

There's also a mod that let's you use widescreen resolutions, but I don't use it. I like to use windowed mode. Easier to get out of crashes.

I have plenty of games that don't recognize the video driver but they still work somehow.

You wouldn't happen to have links where I could find all this, by chance? :beam:

Nevermind, found the DLL through the official technical support forums and the disable vertex buffer line a little later. :thumbsup: Working much better now!

[a completely inoffensive name]

KOTOR 1 and 2 were epic. KOTOR 1 had a good story that did have a unforeseen twist, KOTOR 2 had an overall more epic story though that if it wasn't for the game being rushed would have topped KOTOR 1 in every way.

People bagging on the graphics need to STFU and remember the games are 6 and 5 years old respectively.

If BioWare instead of making this MMO (TOR) had instead made a proper extension of KOTOR 1 and 2 (KOTOR 3) to make an awesome trilogy with the kind of innovation and graphical improvements they created and built upon with Mass Effect 1 (and soon 2) I guarantee it would be hailed as the best RPG of the decade. This IP has that much potential. Too bad KOTOR 1 and 2 were completely covered over with this MMO 300 years in the future, revealing everything that you did was all a moot point.

[KarlXII]

Certainly the best Star wars game I played since the first dark forces, it really has this same special star-wars mood that brings a tear to my eye because it makes me feel like I did when I was a kid playing with Star-wars dolls

They're not dolls. They're action figures.




:smash:

[Azathoth]

People bagging on the graphics need to STFU and remember the games are 6 and 5 years old respectively.

I remember KOTOR's prerendered cutscenes looked pretty good back in 03.

I have no problems with their decision to make KOTOR 3 an MMO (a la Star Wars Galaxies? I wonder if anyone still plays that), but I make a rule of not playing MMO's (other than CSS) so I am a bit disappointed.

[pevergreen]

CS:S is a MMO?

I tend to lump MMO's as the category that in reality is MMORPG. Otherwise you start calling things like Battlefield a MMO, when its just an FPS.

[Azathoth]

It is an MMO. MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. Any game that is designed for online play only is an MMO, whether it's an MMOFPS or an MMORPG or a space sim MMO.

[Monk]

It is an MMO. MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. Any game that is designed for online play only is an MMO, whether it's an MMOFPS or an MMORPG or a space sim MMO.

CS typically is not considered an MMO despite being primarily online oriented. While there really isn't a set rule as to the definition, MMOs are generally considered games run on company owned servers, supporting thousands of people per server, and boast a persistent world.

A good example of an MMO that is also an FPS is Planetside (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlanetSide).

[Azathoth]

I'll make sure to look it up on Wikipedia sometime.

[Mailman653]

Has anyone tried that Revenge of Solomon mod? I installed it yesterday but it will be a while in my current game before I reach the part of the game where this user made expansion begins.