Carthage [Archive]

Red Harvest

10-06-2004, 06:47

My approach is different and is tailored to the "very hard/very hard" setting.
Prepare for war, you will be fighting everyone simultaneously, regardless of your diplomatic approach. I don't cede any ground without a fight.

Start building up Cordoba rapidly. You will be attacked but it is a great province and the enemies there will be weak. You can buy mercs there. Combine them with a light cav force (actually, all the Carthaginian light cav units right "medium horse" and they hit pretty hard against all but the heavy cav.)

At the same time, kill off the Scipii in Lilybaeum. They are going to attack you anyway, so get them first. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but I crushed them in the first few turns. I moved an elephant unit with me an busted down their front gate I believe. This allows assault on the same turn as the siege. It is over before Scipii knew what hit 'em.

Get diplomats or spies into Lilybaeum and newly captured Messana. That Greek diplomat will bribe anything in the vicinity. Diplomats and spies keep it from succeeding. Make a trade agreement with him, then expect the Greeks to attack. They will field a hoplite army. The Carthaginian cav can handle them piecemeal if you are careful. Draw a hoplite out on the flank then hit it from the rear, repeat... The units cave immediately. Take Syracuse and make peace with the diplomat after that (hint: he responded to me that they would make peace in return for Syracuse, I countered with 2,000 denarii for Syracuse and peace, he took it.)

Prepare Sardinia for attack. The Julii are going to send army after army after army after army there. Ship in cav, and build cav when you can (its going to be awhile...) This will keep the Romans busy. Sally out the back on the strategic map and hit the armies from high ground. It is not uncommon to fight two or three battles a turn in Sardinia.

The Scipii and Brutii will probably gang up on Messana. Keep a good army there and just keep hammering them down. Lots of cav rushes is the answer to all those hastati and principes. Move out the side on a the strategic map, so that you don't have to sally on the tactical map. Eventually they seem to weary of attacking Messana, but beware the Brutii will come back later with very large armies. The Scipii are stuck with one province after losing Messana, so they are effectively castrated.

Deal with Numidia as soon as you can, to secure your rear. They will attack you no matter what, so kill them. Tingi is important because it provides a ferry link with Cordoba. It will be awhile before you can reach it. Numidia can't field a lot of men, but their cav are very tough to kill. Buy as many Numidian cav mercs as you can to combat them. Bring along an elephant unit to smash in wooden gates on the same turn as you start a siege.

Exterminate enemy populations. This makes the cities far more profitable for much, much longer. You also will have less trouble form "differing culture" because they are dead...

Grab Lepcis Magna when you can manage it. It is rebel and is a good source of income. The folks are Poeni, so they are a "friendly culture."

Palma is great for awesome Balearic slingers. Hang onto it and step out of the city to buy slingers now and again. You can ferry them to land if you are careful. Palma also can make lots of money! If you keep the Romans busy in Sardinia, they ignore Palma.

Use your cav. The Carthaginian infantry are not worth fielding against the Romans and the AI has administered severe beatings when I tried that. Even the upper level Carthaginian phalanx units suffer because of small unit size, so only build minimal infantry. (Phalanx are easy to counter in RTW.) A base elephant unit or two is your replacement for decent heavy infantry. You can smash them throught the center, with cav following. The elephants cause lots of fear (it is in the unit stats) and disorder the formations, so the follow up cav routs the enemy units. I often head right for the enemy commander (if he hasn't already made a suicide charge.) Charge the pachys through, then turn back and hit anyone still in good order. They tire quickly, but are nearly unstoppable until they tire. You are unlikely to lose more than one or two beasts even in a tough fight, but you must keep them moving. If they stop they will end up routing.

After Numidia, crush Spain (you will probably be doing both simultaneously.) Then take the rest of the Iberian peninsula from Gaul to secure a good border (the Pyrenees), plus lots of income. Gaul will attack you first, so don't worry about it. They are vulnerable to Balearic slingers combined with your cav. The chosen swordsmen are very tough on "very hard" though, so focus your slingers on them.

Turn your attention to Rome...I went after the Brutii first since they were the strongest. I snuck in 2 full stack invasion forces from Sicily and besieged the two Brutii cities in southern Italy. Then I polished off the Scipii province. By this time you are so powerful that no one will be able to hurt you.

hotingzilla

10-06-2004, 13:33

I am playing Carthage on Very Hard difficulty and have passed the earliest part of the campaign. I currently own the entire Sicily, Citra, Lepcis Magna, Cyrene and along with the original lands they came with. (sorry if worng spelling)

You should be aware that you need to have a strong navy since you are going to face huge Roman fleets.

Try to save money for bribing, which is very essential when converting opposing family members to your side. This weakens enemy factions and provides generals or governers for you.

I did not try to eliminate the Numidian at first, I just held off their attacks and took Citra. Instead, I launched suprise attacks against the Romans. When the attained settlement looks to be undefendable, I delete the buildings and retreat. This slows the Romans down and brings some short term benefits.

On battles, you should control all the battles yourself, as this will decrease your losses by a ton. Hire mercenaries such Numidian Cavalry and Hoplites. Spanish mercenaries are available when you are campaigning from Corduba. They are good units, able to fire javelins from distance and fare pretty well in melee. Long Shield and Round Shield Cavalry are excellent additions to your army, use them for flanking. Libyan Spearmen and Poeni Infantry are good for its class and should be widely used. Do not bother with slingers because they cause vast friendly kills when they pull back behind your main line.

(cont'd) Build Temple of Baal if you wish to train Sacred Band. Their base attack is 12 and their defense is 23 and are also well-armored. As with all spearmen/phalanx, they are good against cavalry (The AI sometimes charges their Generals into your skirmishers but then they eventually get sliced up by your spearmen who are deployed behind the skirms). Sacred Band Cavalry is an tremendous mounted unit and should be well respected. They provide you a good counter against those solid praetorians/urban cohorts. Each army should have at least one elephant unit. War and Armored Elephants can fire arrows while the plain one cannot. Deploy them on the flanks to drive through and batter the enemy lines when the moment is most opportune. And then charge your main line to cause the enemy to rout. Use your General and cavalry to pursue the fleeing.

I haven't finsihed my campaign, but it is looking extremely healthy.

Hannibal_Barkar

10-08-2004, 13:21

:help: delete ?

Hannibal_Barkar

10-08-2004, 13:30

Want a challenging game ? Play Carthage ! (I am playing on VH/M)

Why is Carthage so much fun ? :charge:
I finished the julii Campaign on VH/M and to be honest it got pretty boring in the end, since the gauls and brits were just cannonfodder for my trusty legionnaires. I don't like playing on Hard or Very hard diff on the battle level, because of the unfair advantages the AI gets. On the other hand, - the roman infantry seems pretty much dominating as it is on medium difficulty.(btw human controlled Velites own Elephants). So what to do ? Play Carthage ! The Carthaginian forces find themselves facing enemies that has superior infantry. You will have your hands full defending vs the Roman with only light cav and skirmishers. Every denarii , every soldier is gonna count. Oth

Carthaginian Battle Tactics:
Played the Battle of Trebia ? Well, listen to what the narrator says. Hannibal learned early in his military life how powerful the roman infantry could be. So he built an army relying on cavalry to deal with the roman military. And so must you.

If you stand toe to toe with Roman infantry you die. Period. As learned in Trebia you only need inf as means to stall or bait the enemy, so your cavalry can flank, attack - and crush those pesky Legionnaires.
Rely on your Generals cav and your light cav early in the game. Vs Numidians you may also use iberian inf but light cav is much more effective. Even gaul infantry will turn your early and mid level infantry to a bloody pulp faster then you can hit "pause".

The lybian skirmishers you can get as mercs in North Africa are great. They have awesome endurance and I get the impression they got double as ammo as other skirmishers. Use them as bait for enemy units. Once the enemy starts leaving the line to attack the skirmishers you kill it with your light infantry. Once you got the enemy in movement and scattered he is yours. Note: This ain't easy without pause. I can do it most of the times. But when I am outnumbered 2:1 I must use pause a bit, especially to avoid being shot at by my own skirmishers. Its possible to beat superior roman armies who come in superior numbers with Cav and skirmishers.

Numidian light cav. Very nice, very fast skirmishing cav. I use them also as scouts to see the setup of the opposing army before I decide where to try to flank. They can do the same job as lybian skirmishers, but vs infantry heavy armies I find the lybians more effective, since enemy inf is easier to bait with inf. The legionnaires will not run after fast moving cav for long.

Hoplites ? you can get them around Carthage as mercs. Useful in streetfighting. In open battle they are more of a burden for your fast moving army. Stick with iberian inf to bind enemy inf momentarily.

Elephants. Oh boy, they surely are the ancient equivalent to AT-ST Walker. Fun, Fun to maul over some blue clad legionnaires and send them flying. Great killing potential but really expensive. Well, I don't know where other people get so filthy rich, but you wont be able to build many elephants early in the game on VH. You start with one elephant unit and I suggest moving it to the African coast. Build another one when you have the cash and move it to Spain. Show the gauls some african wildlife. They gonna love you for it. Elephants are your one big joker. Be careful with em, the loss of an elephant must be avoided until you can afford more. Use them as morale breaker and instant door opener when sieges. Yes, Elephants can knock open gates and raze wooden walls. Elephants can save your neck when all other options fail. So be conservative on 'em.

Generals: Maybe it was because of my playing style, maybe its built in the game. I got some very decent generals early in the game. Maybe its just in the Carthaginian genes. By the way, your leader will die after the first two turns or so. Be prepared for it.

Navy: Forget it. You are facing the three roman navies, the spaniards, and even the gauls send ships to harass your coast. Just try to keep Gibraltar open. Tingis and Cordoba got a great little trade relationship going between em. The AI must be spending enormous sums on building all these gigantic fleets. Also I find naval battles extremely frustrating cause you have no influence of the outcome whatsoever. Oh, on another sidenote... During the Julii campaign the AI was never smart enough to block my harbours. My Carthaginian Harbours sure do get blocked. Only you don't see the little graphic animation with the ropes. Land trade seems good enough though

My strategic approach was different again.

1.In memoriam of the first punic war I let Carsalis and Sicily be overrun by the Romans. My only achievement there was a trade agreement with the diplomat in Syracuse.
2. That gave me some turns of freedom and resources to settle affairs in my a african backyard. I negotiated an Alliance and military access with the numidians. I used that to get two armies in position. The unsuspecting Numidians lost Cirta and Tingis before they got the chance to break the alliance themselves. Hah ! Tingis ios a great money maker. Key is here to be fast. Attack with inferior forces. Rely on your generals cav. The conquered settlements in North africa don't give you a culture penalty, so they are easy to control. Nevertheless I decided to let the population walk the plank and not just the chaingang. Good for cash, but maybe a mistake in the longer run since it slows your early development down. While you do this... consider shipping a diplomat to Leptis Minor along with a city guard. You can bribe the leptis Minor Garrison cheaply but you need to garrison it immediately. Great trade city. After that go for the african center. You don't want the numidians to backstab you, while you have your hands full with gauls in spain. Lybia will take a bit. Its a long hike through the desert. But same goes for the revenge thirsty numidians. So instead concentrate on building a defense vs the romans.

3. Thapsus Coast. Let History repeat itself. In 255 Bc Consul Regelus invaded the coast with estimated 16.000 men and 500 cav. He pressed hard and was quite successful. The Carthagenians were even trying to negotiate a peace , but Regelus asked for too much,- total roman supremity. In a big effort Carthage mustered all the resources it had and hired many merc and a spartan general defeated Regelus.

You will need mercs now. You cannot pump units fast enough to deal with the romans. They will land in front of Thapsus. don't let them siege your town , since that will interrupt trade. Trade is your lifeline. don't allow it to be interrupted. I built a watchtower on the coast.And every time an army unloads its met by my defending army. That way you can take advantage by the fact that the AI sends the roman armies piecemeal. If you allow the Scipions to built a big stack while attacking Thapsus you probably lost the campaign. I have my elephant unit here. Should a battle become desperate I rely on it to loosen up some enemy furball, so my cav can maneuver again. Never ever use auto battle with elephants in your army, you will certainly loose some elephants.

4. Once you got things under control at home you should like Hamilkar´, Hannibals father, decide to expand into spain. Now don't fool yourself. Forget alliances there. I tried and always failed. Maybe its possible to make one with spain , but I doubt it. Bribery becomes your best friend. Why ? Spaniards and you share the same line of inf and light cav. so if you bribe , you get to keep those units ! Same goes for many rebels in Spain. A great way to make money is to sell map info to enemies. I sold map info to the scipions for up to 5 k. Thats great if you are in dire need of cash. Feels a bit like cheating though. I am clueless what the AI makes of this info.
Carefull about leaving your settlements in spain without generals. The spanish bastards bribed two of my settlements in one turn. Nearly cost me the campaign. Gauls just keep coming. Not as hard as romans but they come in even greater numbers. You should have enough trade income by now to slowly push them out of Gaul and get ready for the big haul.... over the alps into Rome.

Good luck ! Melkart be with you.

PS.: Did you know that Melkart was the Carthaginian name for Heracles ? Like Hannibal he traveled from spain over the alps to settle a score in Italy.

Phier

10-13-2004, 05:56

Carthaginian Blitzkrieg, VH/VH Ok we all know the best thing about not playing a Roman faction is we don’t have to hear that horrible horrible crackling voice say ‘vicccctorreee!’

On the other hand the Carthaginian saying ‘decisive’ is very nice, and even more amusing is when you lose very badly and he says something akin to ‘ughhhck!’.

Ok so who wants to win as Carthage on VH/VH? Sure we all do, and if you follow my easy steps, you too will be master of Mediterranean in no time.

Now if you tried Carthage on VH and failed, you know its due to money more then any other factor. You get attacked all sides, and you just can’t afford to field the armies and build up your cities. The Scipii want you, and the Numedians will go for you right off the bat, unlike in hard games when you can get an easy alliance. You have no nearby trade partners, no control of the sea, horrible starting infantry, and elephants can only do so much.

This can all be solved and solved decisively before your faction leader dies. (Ok my last game he made it to 81, but still he may well live to see victory over Rome, or at least the parts that matter).

Ok take a ship and take your faction heir out of Carthage, on the way out buy a numedian merc cav. Get to Liybeaum and pick up your faction leaders army that’s east of liybeaeum, being sure to pick up the mercs in the area as well. At the same time start building a cav stable in Carthage, you will need it asap.

Take the army, now ship borne to just outside the coast of the Scipii town Capua. Now this is the key bit. WAIT until the Romans are at war with the Greeks at Syracuse. This is your signal to go (you can have your spy look for the siege at Syracuse). Now take your army and hit Capua (if you have the cash pick up some more mercs). Do NOT siege it but attack using your elephants to take down the gate, and a few walls. This is going to be your crucial fight. You MUST not take excessive casualties. Use your elephants but protect them. If you lose them its over and you might as well start wondering what life as a Roman slave will be like. Now after you have taken Capua, sack it, and LEAVE. Its worth a good deal of cash you badly need and it will rebel with a large stack of rebels which will be more then the Scipii can take it back from. Now March in the Brutii cities of Tarentum and Croton, one after the other, use your elephants to get past the wooden walls, sack them both for the cash you still badly need, but you can safely occupy them both. Buy Mercs if any are available because Iberian infantry are like toy soldiers. Ok in about 4 turns, you have taken the Scipii and Brutii almost out of the game, and gained about 15k in cash as well as 2 good cities. You are not out of the woods yet.

After you have sacked Capua you need to reinforce Liybeaum from Carthage. Just ferry troops over, and as SOON as the cav stables at Carthage has been completed get at least one unit of elephants over to liybeaum, again you will need them. If they put you under siege before you get elephants, be sure to land them inside the ‘battle’ radius so they will be reinforcements as you sally forth to meet the Scipii. Odds are Scipii will be attacking you with about ½ to 1/3rd a stack, and a couple of stars. If you are lucky the Scipii will take Syracuse as well, which you and your elephant lead Liybeaum army will take first, and you will then take the last Scipii city of Messana

Ok so now the Scipii are gone, and the Brutii are semi-impotent stuck in Greece. The Senate will not attack you. The Julii WILL attack you and in fact they allied at about this point with the Gauls who also attacked Corduba in Spain. The Brutii will land troops about once every 5 turns at Croton, but those are easily crushed.

Now for Corduba, you want to save this city, it’s a nice foothold on Europe and it’s a good money maker. You are to far away for Elephants, odds are Numedia is at war with you by now, so this one you want to buy as many mercs as you can. My Corduba army is about 3/4ths Mercs, and the Spanish mercs are like a poor mans Hasti, pillia included. You will have some big Gaul armies to take care of, BUT while you will have a good general, they will be captain lead and will route easy. They will have no missle troops for a long while so be sure to use yours to your advantage.

Caralis will be a loss to the Julii, let them have it.

Other things you should be doing are building ports/markets for trade, getting a diplomat to the Spanish BEFORE they attack you to get trade rights if not an alliance. If a Spanish army comes near Corduba, bribe it before it can attack you as you NEED them for trade. The same goes for the Greeks at Syracuse, you will want a diplomat in the area early on and once the Romans have attacked them they will take trade rights and an alliance. Sometimes their diplomat will approach you first and you can save the funds.

Its still not ‘easy’ at this point but you really bought yourself some breathing room. The Julii will focus on you with large stacks from the north, but you should have time to reinforce your starting army via Carthage-Messana-Croton. You will not control the seas so think of ships as one use taxies, if they live longer so be it.

I tested this several times and it always worked to a good degree. Money will still not be plentiful, but you will have enough to build up cities and maintain a few different armies. Surprisingly in my current one my allies the Spanish have taking out two Numedian towns. This is mildly annoying as I wanted those towns, but a nice touch. Once you take the remaining Numidean towns, it gets pretty easy.

hotingzilla

10-14-2004, 12:14

Continuing my previous post...

Once you seized Siwa from the Numidians, the Egyptians will fire armies at you once every 2 turns. They bring generals (Chariots) and huge stacks of Desert Axemen and Bowmen. Militarily, you are no match for them, but you should have a 4 star or above general (gained while campaigning North Africa) who will turn odds in your favor.

Chariots will cause you a lot of problems - they run through your cavalry like a hot knife through butter - do NOT charge any type of cavalry especially your General's unit at them. Instead, you should Numidian cavalry and hopefully harass the chariots. Use junk units such as peasants to divert fire from your precious units. You should also use Sacred Band to form phalanx and lure the chariots into charging them.

Once, missile chariots' ammo is soaked up, use Iberian mercs to lure them closer to your main line. They will charge against them however they end up crestfallen when they plunge into your spearman.

Slingers will be preferred to bring along against the Egyptians though they aren't of much use besides as being bait and diversion when facing bowmen.

Keep sending reinforcements from Carthage, and when you are ready, plunge into the Egyptian heart - Memphis. If you do things right, you should take their most advanced settlement and will put them far behind.

afrit

10-17-2004, 03:34

Read all the above posts. Agree with most points.

I am playing hard/hard on short campaign and it is a lot of fun. Main lessons:

-you WILL be fighting a lot of factions simultaneously. At one point I fought battles with Scipii, Brutii , Julii , Numidia ,Spain and Gaul (yes, Gaul!) in a single turn! Except for the Romans, all the other factions initiated hostilites first.

-Tactical skill on the battlefield is paramount. This is not a faction where you can sit back, build up and then attack. Needless to say, you have to play out all battles personally and pull out all the tricks to keep your losses to a minimum: use missiles to take out roman infantry or enemy units in the city square, attack only when you have overwhelming force (you don't want to win a tough fight, you want to crush them in an easy fight), take your time to maneuver into position on the battlefield. You cannot afford to rush an attack and then count on production to replace your losses.

-Best carthaginian weapons you have are Round Shield Cavalry and the initial army in Sicily, which has elephants in it. Slingers are good at taking out units in city squares with minimal losses on your side. Numidian mercenaries are easy to get and useful against, who else, the Numidians!. As others mentioned, Carthaginian infantry is no match for the Romans or Greeks.

-You need a strong navy. Your holdings are on 3 islands (baleares, Sardinia, Sicily) and 2 continents (Spain and Africa), all separated by lots of water. The link is your navy. Build lots of ships and keep them together, while picking off enemy ships one by one. You can effectively defend sicily and africa from Roman attacks by sinking their ships before they land (of course, sometimes they will slip by. Then you cut off their retreat!).

-Carthage has 3 power bases: sicily, Africa, Spain. You should strive to expand 2 of them at least. In my campaign, I chose Sicily and Spain and kept Africa/Numidia till later.

Sicily. Since the Scipii are your sworn enemies, it pays to attack them quickly before they build up. I managed to blitz the Scipii out in the second turn by using the elephants to smash down the city gate. Without Sicily, theScipii are down to a single province, and they will be slowed down a good bit. If you have naval supremacy, blockade them in their capital Capua and sink all their ships, so they cannot attack you in Sicily.
If you are good tactically in fighting phalanxes, take out the Greeks too. They are too weak to reinforce/retake Syracuse and it is a well developed city. I did this in about turn 4 or 5.

North Africa. The Numidians will attack you sooner or later. Players on very hard reported they got attacked immediately. In my hard campaign, they attacked in about turn 20 (260BC ) after they ran out of places to conquer in the Sahara and Gaetulia. In any case, the good news is their units are weak. Buy Numidian mercs to counter their own cav.

Spain. You should make an early decision whether to hold on to Corduba or to abandon it. Cordoba is a rich province, and if you beat off Spain, it is pretty safe from other enemies. On the other hand, war with Spain will cost money that you need to fight other, closer, enemies.

Spain starts with 4 provinces against your single one on the peninsula. Therefore, you need to even it out by capturing one of their settlements early, before they start making their better units. Cartago Nova is the logical choice because it is closest and is on the Mediterranean, so it can link up with your other provinces. Once you take it, it becomes 3 (poor) spanish provinces versus 2 of your own on the peninsula. Much better odds!.

Other settlements:
-Lepcis magna in Lybia. It is rebel held, without a wall and defended by a couple of town militias. Easy to capture, so grab it before the Numidians get there.
-Caralis on Sardinia. The Julii will attack (usually about turn 4 or 5). I think it is best to abandon it. You just won't have enough forces to defend it and still fight in Sicily, Spain and Numidia.
-Palma on Baleares. Try to develop its population quickly: lower taxes, build Tanit shrine, etc. The aim is to tech up to port and produce ships. It is also a good source for mercenary slingers.
- Finally, a couple of warnings:
Etna will erupt sometime around 260BC. Any army you have in the close vicinity will suffer huge losses (about 40%) . So keep your main force on the Island somewhere else around that time.

The Spanish units are identical to yours, so they can bribed back and forth. I lost a 500 veteran army to bribery . It took me many turns to first, defeat it, and then replace it. Needless to say, I returned the favor later on by buying an attacking Spanish stack.

Hope the above helps.

Bhruic

10-17-2004, 04:02

I'm going to disagree with some of the proceeding.

1) "The Numidians will attack you". Not necessarily. The Numidians are likely to get attacked by Egypt and/or Spain. Go to war with whichever it is, and ally with the Numidians. The Numidians were my good allies for my entire campaign. 50 provinces (including Rome) later, I won. Bet they were happy I never attacked them. :)

2) "You need a strong navy". Not really. Your navy will almost never (I can't remember a single instance) get attacked when it is in one of your "harbours". Most of your harbours are a single turn away from the destination(s) you'll have. Especially early on, you really don't need a powerful navy. The computer players tend to overfocus on navies, so there's no point in trying to compete with them. If you lose a ship or two, no problem, build another one. But huge fleets aren't going to be a big advantage.

3) "Abandon Caralis". Caralis can be defended with a fairly weak force. Just constantly sally against attackers and you won't have much problems. I won't say that abandoning is a horrible idea. The Julii won't attack you much after they take it, so it would be one less enemy to fight. On the other hand, holding on to it means the Julii will waste most of their resources trying to capture it. This makes them quite weak, and easy to conquer once you hit Italy. I chose to defend it, and had no problems doing so (I had to reinforce it from Carthage, as the base force was too poor to hold out).

4) "You should strive to expand 2 of them". That can work, but I find it more effective to focus on the Romans. They are going to be the toughest of the opponents you fight (unless you run into the Egyptians). By focusing on Sicily, you can weaken 2 of the factions (Scipii and Brutii will attack you). By holding Caralis, the Julii will attack you. Because you are defending, and sallying from a city, you should be able to inflict extreme casualties with few losses in return. Jump across the straight, and you should be able to take the Brutii and Scipii cities easily. Take Rome, and move north and you should have the Julii cities as well. With the powerful Roman lands all under your control, you will have the resources to focus where you will at that point, north into Gaul, Africa, or Spain.

Bh

TinCow

10-19-2004, 16:12

I am currently playing a VH/VH campaign and I want to emphasis a minor point someone mentioned above. Wait to attack the Scipii in Sicily until AFTER the Romans are at war with the Greeks. I attacked on my second turn before this happened and I have since played the entire remainder of the campaign as the only enemy the Roman factions has ever had. I managed to hold onto everything but Sardinia, but it was touch and go sometimes. With all 3 Roman factions' armies only concerned with you and the Senate's fleet harassing you as well, this puts a major drain on your resources for other areas. I have still triumphed and am now preparing to invade Italy proper with Sacred Band and Armored War Elephants, but I think I made the situation much more difficult for myself than I needed to.

One final thing, it took me two restarts to survive the initial challenges of the Carthage campaign. On my first two tries, Cordoba was bribed by the Spanish and there was nothing I could do about it. The third time I was preparing to evacuate my army, but the diplomat got there first. Over several turns he failed to bribe my general, each time increasing his anti-bribe traits until his price eventually ended up at 500% of normal and they gave up. That was all luck, but as long as that army doesn't get bribed it should be able to hold on without problems. Without any outside support Cordoba (and a little good generalship) is able to hold off both the Gauls and the Spanish. Turn the city into a military base, pumping out those round shield cavalry. Also be sure to regularly check the province for Baeleric Slingers which sometimes pop up as mercenaries. Once Cordoba is upgraded to Stone Walls, those slingers will keep it from ever falling. Once the city is secure, behing making sorties against enemy armies. I was able to adopt two captains this way which gave me three generals in the region without ever needing to import any troops. Eventually my Spanish forces took the entire Iberian peninsula and are now pushing into southern Gaul. They are totally self-reliant and have never received any help from Africa or Sicily with the exception of a few young generals imported after the peninsula was secured to manage some cities.

Don't give up on Spain!

Red Harvest

10-19-2004, 17:30

TinCow

10-19-2004, 17:50

I had a good 20 turns or so before Numidia attacked me (VH/VH). Even then, they had one large stack that started the war by beseiging one of my cities. After this army, I only saw one further large stack in my conquest of the Numidian provinces. All in all, their biggest impact on my was the loss of trade income which I experienced when I went to war with them. Militarily they were never much of a threat.

Bhruic

10-19-2004, 18:58

On VH/VH the Numidians always attack me eventually. Of course, I don't surrender Cordoba, so Spain doesn't attack Numidia. If I have to maintain garrisons large enough to keep them from attacking, then I might as well march in and take the provinces instead of wasting money on oversized garrison.

I play on VH/VH. I keep Cordoba. I don't really maintain much of a garrison, because I don't care if they attack, I can just sally and cut them all down with almost no losses.

Spain did go to war with Numidian, despite me being in Cordoba.

I'm not saying that Numidian will never attack Carthage. I'm just saying that if you can work the factions, you can set it up so that they are unlikely to. If you prefer, go ahead and attack them, it'll get you all of west Africa, leaving you with a lot fewer borders. But I find it better to take out the Roman factions first.

Bh

DanMasey

10-19-2004, 21:38

Very constructive posts.

Thanks very much, they are all much appreciated!

Tritio

10-23-2004, 18:07

I have started 3 campaigns with Carthage, my most recent is my longest lived, with the mid game developed with me as a regional power. I have not completed the campaign, but I believe that through my observations, I have something useful to offer. I will focus more on general strategies for this great trading power, rather than case by case scenarios, which have been closely examined by above posts.

What You Can Expect
In the early game, you can expect to have a measley income, enemies abound, few friends and even fewer allies, armies of low tech units, and a strategically precarious position.
In the mid game, you can expect to have reduced the number of your fronts, and have made progress at economic development of your cities, to the extent that your income is steady, if barely sufficient. Your enemies should be held at bay by adequate armies and military strength from your allies or yourself.
In the mid-late game, your economy will be booming, with cash flow increasing, your strategic position should be secure, and your recruitment programmes going all out to churn out your armies. At this point the speed of your expansion will increase greatly, and the world map should soon see a lot more white. ~:)
The late game will take the course your early/mid choices have set for it. Whether Spain, the Italian peninsular, or Africa is under your domination, the whole world should see a whole lot more Crescent Banners to the end game.

The Freedom of Choice
As Carthage, your ability to sit back, and plan your path to world domination step by step is not so much an option. The actions of other nations, especially in the early game will largely limit your choices. This is because, in the early game your enemies are mean, dirty, and hairy... err... I mean agressive. ~:) A declaration of war by a neighbour would be taken most seriously, and any plans made can be dratically affected by this shift in diplomatic relations. Therefore, as Carthage, you are mostly forced to react to the actions of others. For example, if the Roman and Greek Cities declare war on you, your life in the meditarenean and Sicily would be much more difficult. Whereas if all Roman factions declared war, but the Greek Cities accepted an alliance, you can expect to breathe a sigh of relief. The Brutii will be preoccupied in Greece, and your navy can expect a lot of aid from greek ships.

The General Focuses
Since there are a wide variety of possible scenarios, there is no one size fits all strategy that works perfectly for all situations. For example, as Carthage you have an option as developing as a naval power, or as a land power, both options have their pros and cons. However, there are some general principles that can be applied over a wide range of scenarios.

The Economy
As in all empires, the almighty denarii is of paramount importance. However, I feel that Carthage is a special case. Money is extremely important. This is because:
1) You are potentially exposed from all sides. This requires a large army or, a smaller, mobile army or, the capability to raise armies quickly in the case of an attack. From a historical point of view, the last choice was employed by Carthage. As you know, a significant amount of Carthaginian military power was derived from mercenaries. In the game, you will find that they are invaluable in their capability to be quickly raised, fill in gaps in your roster, and offer special skills that would normally would not be available. Eg: Numidian Mercenaries (Carthage lacks a light missile cavalry).
2) The capability to bribe enemy armies is also invaluable. Should a defence be lacking on a front, dispatching a diplomat or two to pick off small enemy stacks would prevent a significant buildup of enemy forces into big, powerful stacks that would require concentration of your own forces to defeat, in turn reducing your combat capability in other regions. This is particularly amplified by the size of your empire. Since Carthage starts with Corduba, in southern Spain, dedicating forces there to figh the Gauls/Spanish would take them away from the Sicilian, or Italian theatre. Stationing a diplomat or two in Spain would greatly reduce the need for forces there, as a smaller defence is needed. Anyway, Corduba's province has only 4 points of entry, and the City is fortituosly protected by a river crossing 2 squares to the North where the Gaullic armies love to approach. A firm defence there with skirmisher units and barbarian mercenaries will most often result in a victory, and a herioc one at that.
*********
As a conclusion, I recommend that economic development should be foremost in priority in the development of your cities. Scramble for every denarii! Even farms and agriculture based buildings should take priority! I suggest that all cities should develop level 2 farms, for the population growth, and the denarii. If you don't need to spend money, don't spend it! The next turn may see dire need for your money, as you dig out every denarii to offer to that nice Red Stack of nasty Romans who just landed next to Carthage when you least expected them...
As a note, the temples of Carthage are especially kind to our needs. One gives a +1 agriculture output, one gives a bonus to trade, and the other a bonus to law. Just what you need for a landlocked African province, a busy seaport, and a ruly, newly captured city.

Diplomancy
If ya don't talk, you're a dead duck. :dizzy2:
What I mean is, Diplomancy is another important factor in playing as Carthage. You can no longer rely on a 'Might is right, I'll do what I want' style that you might've adopted playing as the Julii or Egyptians. The ferocity of warfare on the seas and provinces need to be balanced by delicate negotiations to keep you safe and prospering. Reasons? You already have enough potential enemies as it is. There is the tendency that, if nations declare war on you and see you alone, more and more nations will become allied with your enemies. You have to have your own coalition to back you up. An alliance with The Greek City states is to be foremost in importance, giving that both of you will have to face the might of Rome, and that you share the Central Meditarenean. It gets a mite too squeezy with hostile Roman and Greek ships cruising around, I assure you. Diplomancy can also secure a front for you. For instance, securing an alliance with Spain and Gaul would bless you with a safe western front, and the possibility of an ally against the Julii, squeezing the Romans from both ends of the peninsular. Other than granting you safer borders, another use of diplomancy specific to the case of Carthage is to delay the Roman onslaught. If the Brutii can be showered with gifts and given nice treatment, they'd likely attack the Greeks on Sicily. Thus, when the time comes to declare war on the Brutii after building your strength, it is to your advantage that they are weakened, and that a steadfast ally can be found in the Greeks, as both of you share the same enemy. Sending diplomats off to the east and west to gain trading rights and sell map information is also a profitable venture.

Thus, train diplomats at the outset! Station one or two in Spain, one in Sicily, one in the Italian peninsular, and one in Carthage. In my game, the Greeks retained their city in Sicily, and I plopped a diplomat right at it's gates, to sit there and allow me to ring up the Greeks whenever I wanted to. Diplomats can also take a more active, scouting role, seeking and bribing small stacks, as I did in Spain. At the beginning, keeping a diplomat in Carthage may save your rear if the Romans plop down a big stack there. Those commanded by a captain can be taken out easily, and subsequent reinforcemets can also be handled by a diplomat.

The Army, Cavalry
Aha! Your soldiers! Those poor fellows... Don't trust them! Honour instead the mighty Cavalry! :charge:
That's right, your strength, especially in the early game, lies in your Horsemen. Even the seemingly fragile Round Shield units are extremely useful in running down survivors and launching quick strikes, etc. The Romans are especially vulnerable to cavalry. They tend to place their trust on their flimsy Cavalry Auxilia or Equites to guard their flanks. Once their cavalry is swept away, and once their infantry have been lured out of formation by light cavalry, they are only too easily destroyed. Roman infantry mostly depends on their ability to absorb a cavalry charge, bog down the horsemen, then chew them to bits. They cannot stand flank attacks, etc. (I'm referring to the pre-marius units! I'm assuming you'd go against the Romans and knock them out of the game before the reforms, as you should be doing!). Do not be intimidated by the sight of a legion bearing down on you... they are laughably easy to take apart if you have the know how...
The strength of cavalry is in their mobility and striking power. They can deliver a staggering number of casualties if the conditions are right, i.e. in a flanking attack with heavy cavalry, etc. They can deliver much damage, and recieve little or none in return, as they can disengage, or the enemy might rout, etc. While this might be common sense, the trick is in how to use this knowledge to maximum efficiency. Once again taking the example of a mixed roman legion (a common foe as Carthage), the steps to victory should be something along these lines:

1) Attain Cavalry Superiority
Make the other dumb horseman die for his country...
Why? Cause the main opponent of your cavalry is their cavalry... they can also maneuver (at roughly the same speed) to counter your moves. It's a no-no to charge into a target while an enemy cavalry unit is close by. Once committed to a charge, a unit must have some time to make impact and then pull out. If an enemy unit catches you with your pants down... err... that is... toga?..., with their cavalry while yours pulls out, your cavalry is gone, simple... to achieve Cavalry Superiority, see "Precision Strikes", below.

2) Separate the enemy
If the enemy is strung out into single units widely spaced, their flanks are laughably exposed to cavalry charges in the rear, the most terrible thing for a footsoldier to face, and you win. Simple. They are also prone to exhaustion as they go chasing after our mounted men, who have a lot more stamina (or rather, their horses have more stamina). So, the trick is how to achieve such favourable conditions. The best is to use your light cavalry (preferably missile cavalry), a great example being the Numidian Mercenaries. Dangle them in front of the enemy, keeping out of their pila range, to get them to chase you. Position more of such bait around their flanks and/or rear, and walah! the enemy separates. If they refuse, you could tempt them with a charge or two (lightly commited) with your light cavalry in their rear/flanks, or you could threaten them by moving your heavier cavalry around their flanks. If they continue to stick together, simply take them in smaller bites. Go for their flanks first, and their light units (skirmishers, archers, etc), and possibly, their general's unit, if it has not been taken out already. If they are more experienced, if you lack heavy cavalry, or if they are tough to break, simply make them run a round or two around the map, while keeping your own cavalry fresh (make them run in a circle, or just walk your cavalry). The more tired they are, the more fragile they are... If you are on the offensive, and the enemy does not budge, try to wear them down with whatever ranged units that you have (position them at the enemy's rear for best effect, conserve ammo till you have a good shot), and position your units carefully before charging. The trick to bust a defensive infantry formation is to look for weak spots, and to apply the maximum pressure there, to cause a rout which will develop into a chain rout, as you simultaneously apply pressure to the rest of the enemy. If it fails, simply pull out and try again.

Deployment

In terms of positioning within your army, anything goes... The traditional and oft used formation of putting your infantry in the center, heavy cavalry at the flanks, and lighter cavalry at the edges is a flexible, general formation. However, doing something wierd like putting your cavalry behind your infantry is not an entirely bad thing. The key with your deployment is to be flexible. Adapt to situations as you see fit. Think of something fancy that might work? Think it through again, and give it a shot if it sounds sensible! The mobility and speed of cavalry allows them to be redeployed at will. Thus, the initial formation can simply be a bait for the enemy, etc.
However, in terms of the formation of individual cavalry units, depth, width, etc, there is a difference! I remember reading in frogbeastegg's MTW guide that cavalry should be put in lines 2 men deep for best impact. While I adopted that as the standard deployment for my cavalry then; Not so in RTW! The shallower the formation, the greater the initial impact, but the greater difficulty in pulling out afterwards. Your men tend to penetrate deeply into the enemy, and be surrounded within seconds. Such a unit is easily taken apart! It's rather helpless in such a position.
Therefore, I recommend that the charging formation for all cavalry units should be at least 3 men deep!
There are reasons for deploying 2 deep, but that is for the best missile effectiveness (Javalin and bow armed units).
The formation that gives the most 'ooomph!' in charge is a deep formation, with the unit about as deep as it is wide i.e. a squarish formation. Such units would give a good punch into the enemy formation, obliterating or pushing aside soldiers till the charge is expended, and it usually retains it's cohesion, making the pull out a lot more effortless. In some cases, the charge (if it has the depth and power) can simply punch through the enemy unit. The unit will automatically sweep around for another charge. Extremely devastating! Thats why you want a deep formation! Weigh your chances. Do you think you can punch through the unit? Is there enough space to maneuver beyond the unit? If so, put your units in a deep formation. There is a limit to the effectiveness of depth, of course. Usually, the unit should be at least 5 men wide. Otherwise, the charge may take out a slice of an enemy unit, leaving the rest of them right next to you, and hungry for revenge.

The Army, Infantry

"Ah, the infantry ... poor beggers" -RTW

Well, something along those lines anyway... when I saw that quote playing as the Greeks, relying on my Hoplites, I didn't think much of it. However, with Carthage, this is particularly true. It can pretty much be seen from my writing above that I prefer to use cavalry, and I don't think much of infantry. What about the Poeni infantry and Sacred Band infantry, you say? Well, they have their uses, however, I see them as inferior beside the might of the heavy horseman. Pretty much the only thing that infantry excels at is in Urban Combat, which I will cover with a section below. I have read about some tactics of fixing the enemy with infantry from the front with Iberian Infantry, and then pulling off a cavalry charge to the rear. While I have used this tactic often, I find it twice as devastating to ram a charge through the rear of an infantry unit chasing another cavalry unit, then turn the chased unit around and finish the enemy with a charge from an opposite direction. Well you make do with what you have, and as Carthage in the early game, you'd have little, so those poor beggers will see plenty of action anyway, whether you like it or not! ~D Something I've picked up as the Romans, is to keep reserves behind your line! If you expect some heavy infantry action, it's a neccesity to keep infantry reserves. Although the second lines of the Roman Triplex Acies can support with pilum fire, their physical and moral value is equally important. Something that RTW conveys accurately is the reaction to pressure applied to a line. A bulge signifies that your line is being ought-fought, a telling sign to where your reserves should go! One thing, how to commit your reserves: Do so in deep, squarish formations. In other words, do not try to spread your reserves into a two men deep line as you try to reinforce the entire line at once. It's better to let the enemy put a gap in your lines, while you still hold a portion, than to delay a mass rout by a few seconds. Another thing, do not wait too long to commit your reserves! If there are telltale signs of bulges/gaps in your line, units wavering and on the verge of routing, then commiting your reserves are too late. Estimate based on your knowledge of the enemy troops and your own, and commit your reserves early.

Deployment

Before you get Poeni Infantry and other phalanx type units, try to deploy in two lines! Sometimes, it's a good idea to place your ranged infantry at your flanks. If the enemy ignore them, they get free shots at their flanks. If the enemy chase them, they can skirmish away, safely taking an enemy unit out of the fight and on a merry chase (providing both are foot units, of course). Even if the enemy units is cavalry, it gives your cavalry a free shot at the passing unit. Simply order your ranged unit to engage in melee, and you have a perfect flanking setup. Well, the ranged unit would be chewed up, but usually your ranged units are mercenary Cretan Archers or Rhodian Slingers, and both units can melee quite well. Just deploy them in formations 3-4 deep if you expect such a situation. Other than this tip, I don't have much to offer here. I expect any formation applicable to Roman/Barbarian/Greek factions is applicable here as well. That I leave to more experienced people!

The Army, Elephants

"Rrrrrawwwwrrrrr! *Snort*.... Peeeeeaaaaaaaannnuts!!!

Yep, meet your all-peanut-eating corps, your secret weapon, your ace in the hole. If there's one thing the Senate would itch for, it's a supply of elephants to use in their armies. They're great infantry and cavalry bashers. Though I've had more experience using them against infantry, their effectiveness in that role is good enough for me to rate them as a Carthaginian must have unit.
Alright, the role that these fellows fill is... support! Yep, they are a unit that is most effective only when used in conjunction with other units! Strictly speaking, what they do is give the enemy a sudden shock, punch wide lanes through enemy formations, and teach people how to fly. The first, could cause valour 0 enemies (with a command 0 general) to rout right away, however, anything tougher than that would require help. An elephant charge works very well when followed by another unit's charge. Cavalry is good, though infantry could do in this case. It's also a good idea to manually direct them after a charge, as they tend to get bogged down kindly instructing your enemies in the art of flying, the bane of all cavalry (the bogged down part). Simply double click behind the greatest concentration of enemies to carve nice lanes through them. So, view elephants as a kind of charge enhancer, that makes a follow up charge by another unit more effective.

One thing to be careful, elephants die quickest when they are routed in the midst of an enemy formation, and when they are pursued by enemy cavalry. For the first case, there's nothing much you can do, other then letting them rampage free. For the second case, send some cavalry after them! You get a free charge into the rear of an enemy cavalry unit, and you save a few elephants on the way.

Deployment

The theory that the deeper the formation, the more devastating the charge can also be applied here, although, as a complimentary unit, the impact you'd want will depend on how you'd like to exploit it. A deeper formation is more suited to a follow up cavalry charge, as the damage (moral and physical) is more focused. A good follow up punch by a deep formation of heavy cavalry is to best effect here, as the lanes through enemy units is more capably exploited by a deep cavalry formation (a punch-through is more likely).
A follow up infantry (pah! ~D ) charge would probably be more effective when the elephants are deployed in a shallow formation, as infantry lack the speed and impact to effectively exploit the lanes, they do fill the gaps in lanes, but they depend more on chewing through the weakened enemy formation than shattering it through impact.

The Army, Mercenaries

"The pay packet... first! "

A common sight in your army, these green guys. They are slightly weaker in stats than their parent unit, cost something from 350-1000+ denarii to hire, and are very useful. Four common mercenary units that you'll see often as Carthage are Cretan Archers, Rhodian Slingers, Numidian Mercenaries, and Libyan Skirmishers. The first two are excellent ranged units, some of the best to be found in and around the meditarennean. Since Carthage is unable to train archers for themselves, you'll find yourself relying on these fellows pretty much. Hire them whenever you can, you won't regret it. Numidian Mercenaries are excellent, ultra-light (it's their garments! see?) missile cavalry. Although they can hardly kill a unit of peasants in a charge, they are excellent in luring those peasants to another unit which can kindly do the job for them. They are also fast, and have no problems catching up with heavy cavalry. You could sometimes sacrifice a unit of these fellows by charging a retreating heavy cavalry unit (knowing they'll turn around and engage), allowing your own cavalry to catch up. Well, they're mercenaries, so I view them as being more expendable. They are also great at galloping down a fleeing general. Libyan Skirmishers? I haven't used them much, but they are rather plentiful, and stationing heaps of them behind a line of your own fragile infantry makes the enemy rout much faster. Their javalins provide much support to your line, cutting down and demoralising enemy troops just before they charge. Consider them something that beefs up your line.

Deployment

Did you know that you can select the order in which units line up in the single line formation? Ever been frustrated as that unit of Mercenary Hoplites are always placed on the flank? Well, I was... ~D Select your units in the order you'd like them grouped to have them line up in that order. Eg: select *Iberian, Iberian, Hoplites, Iberian, Iberian* to have the unit of hoplites to deploy in the center when you order a single line formation. Cheers! ~:cheers:
Well, treat your mercenaries as normal units in terms of deployment, perhaps taking into account their expandability, and that they are slightly weaker and have lesser morale (I think?). Other than that, they're like any other unit.

I think I have exceeded the length limit of a post? Cool! ~D ~:cool: ~:cheers: Coming up next, Precision Strikes, Urban Warfare and The Navy!

hotingzilla

10-24-2004, 13:46

Your first post and a very constructive one too!

Stlaind

10-24-2004, 21:53

Personally I've noticed that after taking scicily a quick strike to Capua is very usefull. If done right you can then eliminate the senate very early on. the objective here is not to hold those territories but rather dropping the scippii from the game then (if situation permits) doing the same to Rome. The Senate tends to station a FULL stack outside of (the early game) Rome. This allows for you to cause major havoc on both the remaining roman houses (drops a fair amount of trade -land & sea-) I have typically abandoned them/let them go rebel. My objective at that time is to damage my most powerful enemies (early I haven't forgotten egypt) with out overstreching my forces.

Carthage has major advantages in an early game siege with elephants. standard ones early game are far too valuable (IMHO) to risk on melee. When you get War & Armoured Elephants they are more capable in actual combat and have arrow towers mounted on top. I ONLY use against cavalry in melee. this is a quick way of developing Tritio's mentioned Cavalry superiority. They get a bonus against cav and can shoot them in the back as they rout (while heading towards the next victim).

Later on you can use seige towers to block the gateway's arrows and put ladders up to the wall this get your troops up faster and more protected.

Really it helps that Carthage can focus on it's powerfull cav and still get it's best infantry the Sacred Band with out building ANY barracks - All you need is an Awesome Temple of Baal and at the same level as Poeni infantry. They are a capable phalanx unit that provides WONDERFUL holding ability for you cavalry to flank.

Marshal Murat

10-25-2004, 12:43

I pumped up the carthage with like 500000 denarii, so this would doubtfully apply. But it helps.

As soon as you get you Lybian Spearmen, pump them out. One or two can engage a Hastati and come out on top. They, with Poeni, and Sacred band are you home trained foot troops, the iberians just suck. Use them with a huge cavalry force. Sacred Cavalry, and Sacred Band take two turns to train. Well worth it.

Sacred cavalry are good heavy hitters and with the Sacred Band pinning the enemy, they can shear away enemy troops.
bribery is to be your best friend.

Tritio

10-26-2004, 15:13

Here's the follow up second part of my guide...

Earlier on I've covered:
-What you can expect as Carthage
-The (lack of) Freedom of Choice
-The Economy
-Diplomancy
-The Army, Cavalry
-The Army, Infantry
-The Army, Elephants
-The Army, Mercenaries

Here I'll be continuing with
-The Navy
-Urban Warfare
-Precision Strikes

So, here goes!

The Navy

"Sail the seas, they said... See the world, they said... Render your service unto your motherland, they said... Join the Navy, they said... Pah!"

First of all, the Navy sails the seas, right? Since the seas are such a vital source of income as Carthage, the Navy is as vital as your army, right? Well, depends on how you look at it.
The functions of the Navy are:
=Defend your ports from blockades
=Transport your armies
It also serves to hinder the functioning of the enemy's navy:
=Blockade enemy ports
=Interdict transported armies

That's it! Surprised? Yes, the functions are few, as are the functions of Armies, for example, when examined closely.
---Defend your settlements
---Capture other settlements
---Blockade ports (from land, yes, you can do this!)

Other capabilities of the Navy and Army, like destroying other ships and Armies, are just means to an end, actually. Duties like scouting out the map/sea, or defending your borders are similarly subfunctions of the Navy/Army. Why do you attack another Ship/Army? It is in part to weaken and reduce the assets of the enemy whereas maintaining and guarding your own, to prevent the enemy from fufilling his objectives, and to aid in completing your objectives. You can't Transport your armies to Sicily and prevent Roman expeditions from landing off Carthage if the sea is swarming with Roman ships, for example.

Therefore, with the knowledge of the functions of a Navy, you can better appreciate it's use and importance. You can understand, for example, why some nations like Parthia have little need for a navy when their empire is confined to the deserts. Only 2 of their provinces (Campus Sekae and the province north of Susa) have a port, and trading opportunities are scarce, with only 3 ports in that little sea. Therefore a navy is of little importance to them. However, picking a less extreme example, the Julii also place little importance in their navy if they expand north. Given that much of their revenue is derived from landlocked provinces to the north. The key to estimating the worth of a Navy is the wealth that is available via trade. If you derive much of your income from the sea, whichever nation you are, then a Navy will be of more importance to you.

Now that the importance of a Navy can be estimated, let us move on to the strengths and weaknesses of a navy.

A Navy is capable of performing a different variety of tasks from an army, and it's role is exclusive and unique. Though all Navies can perform the same tasks, their host of duties are that which no other unit can do.
One strength lies in the openness and unclaimability of the sea. One side of the mediterannean cannot be isolated from another. One portion of the sea cannot be claimed to belong to a nation. Thus ships are able to travel to wherever there is water, and this brings with it the ability to travel to exotic places, contact all the nations of the world, and transport your armies to wherever you please. This is especially important considering the shape of the Mediterannean. If one wishes to visit the opposite shore of it, once could spend 3-4 seasons sailing by ship, or half a lifetime travling by foot. By the same virtue of accesibility, the ships of your Allies also have less trouble attacking your enemies than their armies, though they may be far away.

The weakness of a Navy is that they do not travel very quickly, only as fast as a light army. The battles which they fight in also have little strategy and no tactics. Thus the intelligence of a player can only bring the Navy as far as to concentrate his many against the enemy's few. Battles can only be auto-resolved, and that can be skewed to the favour of the computer, depending on the level of difficulty on which you are playing (above normal). The accesibility of your ships to all the shores of the world also means your shores are accesible to your enemies too! Unlike on land, where only a few factions can fight you in places which your borders meet, your ships are fair game for all your enemies in the Seven Seas, as are your shores, for amphibious assaults...

Thus, your Navy can be a powerful striking force, cutting off your enemy's seaborne income, and landing your forces wherever you wish. It is also the only thing which prevents the same from being done to you. Is it important for Carthage? You bet.

Carthage is extremely vulnerable from the enemy navies. Firstly, your major towns are all located near the sea, meaning any seaborne invasion will only allow you one turn (or less) to respond. Secondly, the bulk of your income is derived from seaborne trade. A single blockade can throw your delicate economy into the red. Thirdly, your mortal enemies, the Romans, are in a much better position than you to field a Navy. Their hearlands are secure in Italy from land based assault (except for the Julii), and they are firmly allied. Meaning that tripping one faction off will see you facing the combined Naval might of all 4 factions, and any allies they may have. The Naval war seems stacked against you. What do you do?

Your initial objectives should be thus:
1) Ensure the survival of your Navy
2) Defend your ports
3) Stop amphibious assaults

1) Ensure the survival of your Navy. Does this mean I don't fight any battles? Nah, this is meant in the more strategic sense. The first step is to form alliances with other seaborne powers. This would throw more weight against your enemies. Some good targets are The Greek Cities, Spain, and Egypt if possible. Nations in 3 corners of the Mediterannean. Sailing would be more of a breeze with them around... The second step is to increase the toughness of your ships. Build bigger ships! Triremes! Quinqueremines! Deceres! Titanics! ~:cool: Obviously, this gives you more fighting power, and involves some infrastructuring on the dry side of a beach. ~D Also, give them weapons and armour upgrades (retrain ships in a port to replace losses, and give upgrades) whenever possible. A blacksmith does not only provide services for the landlubbers! Good cities to retrain your men are Carthage, the city south of it, and captured cities in Italy. They often have a high level of development. While this is a long term development plan, and indeed, it goes on till the end of the game, do what you can in the early game. Regularly retrain your ships whenever there is a new level of blacksmith to be found.

2) Defend your ports. Although I have yet to see a lengthy AI blockade, indeed, seeing one would amaze me already! This involves keeping ships near your valuable ports (Carthage), and making sure that no port is too far away from your ships. Corduba has the tendency to be left out and forgotten in the Naval war, given the action seen around the Sicily. This is just in case... anyway, they can be put to good use ferrying your troops around.

3) Stop amphibious assaults. This involves preemptive action, and quite a bit of scouting. To stop an amphibious assault, first of all, you'd have to find one. Any number of ships can transport a 20-unit army, and you would'nt want that one to slip by! View the profile of a stack to see if they carry passengers. A diplomat or a general are valuable targets to take out. To get enough advance warning, you'd have to scout along expected routes of invasion. The primary route for Roman assaults is between Sicily and Sardinia. You can take care of the scouting bit by building a watchtower on the western end of Sicily, and placing a spy/watchtower on the eastern end of Sardinia. Any gap in between will have to be covered by a ship. You can also roughly time assults, by gauging the number of turns an enemy would have to build up a fair sized army (depends on his territorial size), and by observing the number of enemies he has, other than you. Also, after the main stack arrives, a smaller, reinforcement stack can be expected a few turns later. For example, the Julii, having only 3 cities and no enemies (no, they didn't touch the Gauls). Took about 10 turns from the declaration of war to plop down a big army (About 10-15 units, with Principes!) outside Carthage rather early in the game. A reinforcing stack (about 5 units) was plopping along about 3-5 turns later.

In the tactical sense, the Battles of a Navy is a game of maneuvre, where you would try to position more of your better equipped against the enemy. Nothing very complicated here, what skills you need here can just be gained by experience... At the start of the game, however, be careful about the battles you choose. Having few ships, you'd not want to risk them. You need them for transporting your army! Therefore, try to hop from port to port every turn. Most enemy ships do not attack units stationed in port. Also, a single ship (in VH/H) has a very big chance of being sunk on the spot when being attacked by 2 enemy ships. Even on the same experience level, this can happen! Do not transport Armies/Characters with ONE ship!!! As far as is possible. Throughout my campaign, I have sent out 3 diplomats to the east, to try to contact the egyptians. 2 were sunk in such one-battle jokes... the other sunk in a series of battles. Once, a 12 unit army needed in Italy was also sunk in a single battle... :furious3: What rotten sailors... heed this warning, or experience it for yourself...!

Well, only later in the game will your Navy be able to develop to the extent where you can overwhelm Rome and keep it on the defensive, if not carrying the battle to them. But this will only be possible if your land based campaign is going along pretty well, and you can devote more resources to producing ships.

With a mature Navy, you can apply pressure to ports all over the world, grinding an advasary's trade to a halt, and confining him to land. What a symbol of true, global power! Thus, you can invest early in your Navy. The end result is well worth it.

Urban Warfare (UW)

Well, here we come to the hard part. Early Carthage always has difficulties with Urban Warfare, due to it's weak infantry (before Poeni). It's good cavalry can't help very much in the cities. So that leaves us with a few options. Your (weak) army, mercenaries, ranged units, and your elephants. To allow cavalry to slug it out in street battles is a mistake. As you find, they get chewed apart all too easily, and their charge is bugged in the cities. If you deploy them in a wide formation on the strips of dirt beside roads, all too often they pathfind their way (badly) to where you don't want them to go, or they pause just before impact during a charge. If you deploy them on the roads, they lack the punch to push through infantry. Urban Warfare is the realm of the footsoldier. Horsemen will do well to tread lightly in cities...

However, there is one type of very heavy cavalry that can do well in UW. Elephants! Although their charge is also bugged, although they can only deploy in very long formations, only 2 elephants wide, although they die easily when they rout, they are (as usual) a great aid!

Firstly, they can handle all sorts of wooden walls. Just send a unit, and only unlucky gentle giant will have to hammer his head against the wall, and sooner or later, it falls. The animation is... provocative... I itch to edit one of those screenshots to show some unlucky fellow doing some head banging... aaaannyway, you don't have to build seige equipment for wooden walls, and you can assault them the turn you start the seige. For the fighting part, they are mainly useful at pushing away enemy troops. Especially good for dealing with enemy phalanxes, or heavy infantry in general. Back them up with infantry, and you'll do pretty well.

One important thing! Do NOT charge your elephants through stone gates with boiling oil upgrades when they are held by the enemy! DO NOT! Why? Oh, lets just say an elephant catches fire as easily as a well oiled pig... They will rout and make it a bad day for you... Even sending a unit of Iberian Infantry won't cause them to rout, even though more than a quarter (often half) of their unit will be incinerated. Capture the gates via seige towers/ladders before you send troops through.

Other than elephants, the units you need are ranged units like cretan archers, Rhodian slingers, or skirmishers. Each is good at it's own area. Cretan archers are great at softening up defences (mainly for wooden walls) before the charge by shooting up units behind the walls. The high trajectory of their shots allow them to do the same for stone walls (I think they can for the smaller ones... not that sure). Rhodian slingers can also do the above, but their margin of error is smaller, and you'd have to micromanage to place the unit at the exact spot where their shots clear the wall, and hit the enemy. Get some practice... it's easy to get used to. The slingers are good at shooting up the enemy when the breach has been made. See an enemy unit waiting for you? just position a unit of slingers outside the breach, and let them sling away. The enemy unit will move away... or die. Skirmishers come onto their own fighting in the closed streets and alleys. The best way to defeat a big block of heavy infantry crowding the streets is to weather them down with missiles, then fight them with units backed up with lots of skirmishers. Lots and lots... after that, it's just a trip to the town centre, where finally, your cavalry can partake in the battle with a final charge to finish the lucky few who can survive all the remaining ammunition thrown at them.

Well, your pre-poeni infantry just sucks... face it. Libyan spearmen can hardly stop a cavalry charge! pah... so, to satiate the meatgrinder of city battles, I'd recommend you get mercenaries... lots of them. Spanish mercs and Barbarian mercs are great at in close fighting, Libyan skirmishers can supplement your skirmishing force, and Samnite warriors can go against their own people of Italy fairly well. Just back them up, don't stop to weep over their bodies, and press on. I am ruthless at throwing unit after unit of mercenaries at the enemy. They can die before my own soldiers! Here, the mighty denarii will show it's worth! Mwahahaha.... ~D

When you get Poeni infantry or Scared Band, it's smooth sailing in Urban Battles from then on. Just conduct battles the Greek way from then on...

I've exceeded the post limit AGAIN! Woot! ~:cool: ~D ~:cheers: :charge: Well, there's not much left, just the conclusion... keep reading! ~D

Tritio

10-26-2004, 15:17

Here's the third and last bit...

-Here is a tactic that can be used against infantry heavy armies, particularly the Romans

Precision Strikes

This is a move in the strategic (world) map to use a concentration of your forces to eliminate a specific element in your opponent's army. The moral here is, you don't have to kill them all, just take out something important, then take out the rest later. For example, you could gather an all cavalry army to tackle a mixed roman legion with the target of eliminating their cavalry units, giving you cavalry superiority in the next battle. Other examples would be to eliminate their archers, generals, etc, then bring in all your troops the next turn to crush them. I have used this tactic to great effect against the Senate Field Army. As you know, they have a good mix of Hastati, Principes, and Triarii units with 3 chevrons and at least bronze weapons and armour upgrades. However, their 'cavalry' consists of their general and family member's bodyguards. Taking out all their cavalry would allow you to lure and defeat their infantry piecemeal, and leave them without a general. Simply lure the target (or everyone else) out into an exposed position with light cavalry (Numidians are good for this), and let em have it from your cavalry. :charge: Ambushes can also be used achieve this. Yes, horsemen can be hidden in trees too. Then, you'd have free run of the field the next battle! This is also good for phalanx based armies. A phalanx army without cavalry... mmmm.... tasty.... ~:cheers: For cavalry based armies eg, the Numidians, you could consider taking out their infantry... so you can concentrate on the horsemen next time.

Doing so would mean retreating from a battle, yes? Well, sometimes when you retreat, even after a perfectly good precision strike, your army is halved!

Shucks... I always reload after that one... ~D Trying to find out the cause, I believe that sending units short on movement points on the world map may cause such a thing. Also, it does not happen when there is no engagement, that is, no fighting, (I often command battles when my scouting forces are engaged by big, unknown armies, to determine it's composition). Thus I suspect that casualty rates may have something to do with it. Maybe if there are more casualties on your side, and a few routs, the chance of this happening increases. However, I do not know the details. It should not be related to the number of cavalry units in the army (who might, you know, give chase, in real life). After wiping out the Senate army's cavalry force (every unit was decimated, those who lived were less than 10, and they were fleeing when I withdrew), I withdrew to find my forces cut in half. Rubbish! Anyway, be aware and careful of this phenomenon...

Well, that wraps up the final topic of precision strikes, and my (small) and first guide I've written... for Carthage! I hope that, after such a long read, your eyesight hasen't deteriorated, and that you have hopefully gained something to help you, and have enjoyed youself along the way. Thank you for reading it! ~D

May you be well and happy! ~D

Slaists

10-28-2004, 20:28

Just a few quick notes.

I'm playing Carthague now VH/M and enjoying it the Carthagian way, hence:

Messina issue: A quick elephant-led strike along the northern coast of the island to Messine after you have allied with Greeks and waited for the Scipii army to march into their territory (or yours, if they choose so) will cripple Scipii considerably. To people who disapprove rush: Messina used to be a Carthagian city, taken over by romans who took advantage of a local rebellion there... It's only fair for Carthage to have it back. By the way, make sure Scipii pay some tribute to your efforts by buying a map/trade rights from you before the strike ;)

Siracuse issue: Since, at the beginning, you are rather cash starved: I would suggest not to build an army to take Siracuse (Greeks are your allies anyways: you woudln't want to screw up your diplomatic reputation by breaking an alliance while your diplomats are working hard selling maps/trade agreements to the world). Send in a bunch of spies and make the city revolt (it will take some time). Once Siracuse is controlled by peasants, send all your Sicilian regiments in and take it. The remaining greeks might actually help you in this enterprise...

Sardinia issue: use this as your training ground for aspiring young generals. An elephant unit + the general's unit + a couple cavalry units (long shields preferable due to their superior charge. note that round shields do not have any charge...) are usually sufficient to hold the island safe from roman expeditions. I've had 16 year old generals go from 0 to 10 command stars in not time in Sardinia. Since the town is small and underdeveloped, they pick up a few nice traits along with those; + a bunch of experience chevrons...

p.s. my experience farming in Sardinia got abruptly stopped last night: the Julii sent their last heir and family member on a suicide mission there and the turn after their faction leader died... their faction got wiped out... :( scipii hit the bucket in a similar fashion, trying to retake mesina. now, it's only brutii (who have taken over most of italy already reacting quickly to the changes in the peninsula) and the senate left of the roman gang...

Capua/Scipii issue: take your time. I'd suggest sending in a plague infected spy to chill out there (i didn't want to rush italy militarily before I controlled all of spain)... Yesterday, the last of Scipii was killed by plague (a courtesy of my subterfuge guy) while his brother bit the dust near Mesina in Sicily in a vein attempt to retake the city. I have to confess: I am tempted to send the same spy to Rome: a special gift to the senate!

Cordoba issue: at the beginning (before you get your cash flowing so you can afford a decent army), make your general run around and build guard towers on hills and forts near river passages and in narrow valleys; station a unit of urban militia/peasants in each of those (worked for me). This will serve to keep Spaniards/Gauls at bay while you are able to send an elephant unit from africa to help... To hint who was the boss, I made sure I always built forts on my adversary's side of the river ;) So, if they started anything: they'd be the ones getting devastation.

Beware of the Spanish diplomats: they'll attempt bribing your Cordoba garrison; if you send your general on tower building duty without any entourage: they are likely to offer some cash to him too. And, it's not only the Spaniards: the Gauls have tried to pull the same trick too. In order to avoid a painful disappointment, (1) keep the stack in Cordoba pumped up with some peasants, urban milita (larger stacks are more expensive to bribe), (2) do not leave your general alone (have some cavalry ride with him around), (3) strip the spaniars from their hard earned cash by selling the usual map/trade agreement combo to an unsuspecting low-influence captain of theirs, (4) bribe their emissary (using the cash from #3)... (5) after cordoba grows to the level in which it can produce spies: you are all set: keep one in the city, another one with your general...

Numidia issue: try to sell trade rights/map/alliance package to them. It seems, they are more willing to accept small payment deal over a long time period rather than a one time deal. I threw in military access special (them being allowed in my lands: for they invariably wander around my lands uninvited anyways) into the pile to lur them into signing it... I just hate to run after those skirmishing cavalry-men on the field which I'd have to do had I decided to deal with Numidia militarily. In the longer run, the spaniards will probably help you by taking marocco from Numidians; other than that: send in your plague infected spies into numidan towns and let the sickness/spies do the rest. Take the abandoned settlements at your leisure while receiving your unsucpecting neighbor's tributes.

Spain revisited: after you have secured Cordoba, and the elephant unit from Carthage has arrived, the Spaniards (Iberians) are on your menu probably, they have attacked you anyway in their in-measurable silliness. start with a hands-on lesson to Novo Carthago on why is it bad to ally with romans. morocco, if the Spaniards have taken it, is a nice starter too - grab it before the Numidians have recaptured it. After Novo Carthago (and Morocco if available), work your way around the Iberian peninsula... Balearic slingers are nice and Spanish mercenaries help as well... You can give the Gauls some whacking while you are at it too :) Anyway, after Spain, my intent is to have a Hannibalish party in the Italian countryside :)

ooops, it didn't come out as short as i believed it would be :)

Nestor

10-30-2004, 17:52

In medium/medium you can go after all of the roman factions in a few turns. (arround 260BC in my campaigns)

ESSENTIALS: Italian army: Your faction leader, a unit of elephants (as was extraordinarily well already explained) 3-5 round shield cavalry. Minimise losses on elephants, you can replenish casualties in cavalry and your general takes care for himself! (Infantry is just there to make you feel better and occupy the conquered cities)

NAVY: Just enough to push back the enemy. They are using the same ships, so, one time you win, one time you lose. No matter! You just delay them until your italian army destroys them!

MY ADVICE: DON'T DO IT! Don't overkill the romans! They are nice people after all: they keep the fun in the game by being the most reliable opposition. Everything was happening veeeery slow after their destruction! (In fact if you keep peace with the Egyptians you can win blindfolded!)

I'll say it again: R:TW without R(ome) and roman factions as opponents = NO FUN :bow:

King Yngvar

10-30-2004, 19:56

You can't play carthage like any other faction. Its just impossible to win.First youre going to have to abandon two cities, thats right two cities.Get all of your units in corduba and in caralais and ship them to lylibaeum.

What kind of defeatist way is that?

What I did was to abandon Caralis, they simply had too few troops there. Send the troops from Caralis down to Carthage, build up in Carthage, including one group of elephants, and take it back within some years. Corduba has never been abandoned. The Spanish bribed it though when I was on my way to take Carthago Nova, but I will return and crush them. Caralis was ok to abandon, it was close and could easily be taken back. Corduba however is not smart to abandon, it is your stronghold in Spain, your way to weaken the Spanish and the Gauls as they continiously sends troops there...

Maltz

11-01-2004, 19:11

I just started a Carthage campaign on VHard/VHard. Thia faction is one of the most interesting and satisfactory. It is only 4 years into the game, and I already exterminated every town of Burtii, Scipii, and Rome as well! ~:cheers: Here is what I did:

Basic strategy: Concentrate all attacks on Rome factions.

(1) Send the fraction leader's army to attack Brutii. Turn 2 I could just reach Croton and took it. Turn 3 I took Tarentum. Brutii eliminated right from the beginning!

Brutii sent its main army across the sea already, so they were rather defenseless at home. I used the elephant unit to breach 2 openings on the wall/gate. Then I trapped the roaming velite with my general's cavalry and kill them all. The slingers & mercenary horse lancers killed some hastati and general's cavalry on the street and the city square. The infantry mobed up from different directions to finish them all.

Tarentum has a stable, so it is a good base for round shield cavalry for a while. In Carthage (the capital city) I also go for exclusively round shield cavalry, and upgraded the stable and starts to build elephant.

(2) Turn 5 I captured Capua, the Scipii town. I actually attacked the army just outside the town, so once I also killed the generals and routed the massacred reinforcement from the castle, the town became almost defenseless. A cross-sword mark left on the battlefield.

The Scipii sent a few lone units trying to recapture the Brutii towns, but I bribed them all. The SQPR soon sent a strong army close to the border.

(3) Turn 7 or 8 the transporting ship arrived at Capua's shore. My faction leader led a surprise attack to Rome. This way I don't have to face the formidable Senate army. Outside Rome there was also a small stack. I attacked it with a small part of my army (or they will retreat and become untouch-able). After I eliminated the small, reinforcing Rome garrison army with another cross-sword, Rome was mine!

I exterminated every single town up to this point to boost my bank account, and to leave the least number of garrison possible. I use that money to bribe away all of the unwanted engagements, including a 3(command)-3(management)-3(influence) general from Julii, and another useless guy from Scipii.

The Senate army now becomes "the Latin rebel", with 4 family members not far away from Rome. Two of them have super high influence. I wish to save up to bribe them at once. They will make excellent governer of Rome and Carthage once they hit the 24,000 pop. mark. I just sent an assassin to start killing the other 2 useless guys, so I can bribe this army with a cheaper price.

In the mantime, Corduba has already been captured by the mighty Gauls in the 5th or 6th turn (glad I gave it up). With the starting army from Corduba, Palma and the other starting city just below Carthage (forgot name), I formed a 2nd army and already bleached the entire Sicily white by the time Rome fell. The Greeks already moved their army away so they had no resistance. The Scipii never did anything meaningful except giving me a another cross-sword on the battlefield. I bribed the annoying Greek diplomat after he refused a ceasefire.

So far no faction has agreed to ally with me. The Numadians came very soon, but under cash influence only to erect a new, better-looking hooked-moon. I now wish to keep them as my "unofficial recruiting center".

Also, even if I no longer share a border settlement with the Gauls & Greeks, they still don't want a ceasefire. I wonder whether the Carthage is programmed to have diplomatic struggle or what, but gladly my maps are still sold for 3k each.

I guess from this point on it will be quite easy. I now plan to expand north to finish off the Julii and push away the Gauls, while in the meantime kick the Greeks/Macedons. ~:)

HopAlongBunny

11-23-2004, 08:45

I think the Roman Blitz is the way to go. If you hold onto Sicily, the trading partners for 2 of 3 of the ports are Roman (for anything above a port)

If I do another campaign its Rome first for me ~:) Nestor has a good point-the Romans do add more challenge to the game-but why struggle to keep/expand your lands and lose decent trade income?

It may be enough to just take Croton and Tarentum (sp) from Brutii since these seems to be the trade cities you need...but Capua is so close and Rome is just a short hop from Capua... ~D

Hambut_bulge

11-23-2004, 14:14

Playing my first Carthage campaign (medium/medium) at the moment, and it is possible, though by no means easy, to not give any ground at all at the start. The most dangerous point was about five years in on Sicily. I'd set up trade agreements with both the Greeks and the Scipii, but held off an alliance the Greeks. Obviously the Romans were going to attack me at some point, but I didn't want to get sucked in too early. As expected/hoped Scipio went for the Greeks first. A couple of turns later the Julii showed up outside Caralis, so I allied with the Greeks, who responded three turns later, having just lost a big battle with the Scipii, by stabbing me in the back and declaring war ~:confused: So I abandoned the Greeks in Syracuse to their fate, shipped in extra troops from Carthage and beseiged both Messana and Syracuse as soon as the later fell to Scipio. I now subsequently own the whole of Sciliy, and the Scipii have one province, so they're effective out of it.

Meanwhile on Sardina, the Julii have sent army after army, all led by family members, to what has become a Julian graveyard outside the gates of Caralis, which I've been defending with one general, three town militia, and four iberian infantry. I ship in peasants from Carthage from time to time to boost the population and allow retraining. The general became a god, so I'm now using Caralis as a training ground for the rest of the family. The Scipii have lately decided to join the party/funeral here as well. :charge:

In the west I've wound up fighting Spain (intentionally) and Gaul (they started it). I took Carthago Nova right at the start of that and Spain isn't a problem now. The downside is that that streched me a bit thin and as a result I've been essentially fire-fighting against the Gauls as they alternately attack Carthago Nova and Corduba. Bit by bit though I've built up and have just had what I hope will be the decisive clash with Gaul (in Iberia anyway) by luring a Gaul army to fight over the bridge north of Corduba. My defence. My 1,000 men held up and ultimately slaughtered a force of 1,700 Gauls. I'm now moving up to take to Gallic provence in Iberia.

Back home I'm also expanding against the Numdians. This isn't too difficult as they're fielding relatively small armies. Caution is required though I think, due to the large distances between settlements on the North African coast.

After playing twenty years or so, the only faction stronger than me are the Egyptians. I'm debating whether to go for Rome or not, but I'm tempted to keep them around for a bit, if only for General training at Caralis.

So far though this has a been much more interesting and challenging campaign than the Julii.

Hasdrubal giscon

12-27-2004, 10:49

pour moi les cartaginoi sont la faction la plus interessante dans la mesure ou ils disposent de l armee la plus complete du jeu (avec les selucides) .
l infanterie sans egaler l infanterie romaine reste tres bonne et les lanciers libyen peuvent parfetement tenir tete au triarii, l arme la plus dangereuse a la disposition des cartaginois reste a mon avi les elephants: le plus interessant est de les placer sur les flancs et derriere eux la cavalerie lourde (les placer en avant du front peu s averer dangerux si les elephants panique) de telle sorte que vos elephants pietinent la cavalerie adverse se qui laisse le champ libre a la cavalerie pour prendre l ennemie a rever.
je vous conseille egalement de completer votre armee avec des mercenaire numides mais aussi des frondeurs des balears et des espagniols

DukeKent

01-04-2005, 08:14

If you want a challenge, then Carthage is for you. Carthage is real challenge in the beginning. I was fighting all four Roman factions, the Spanish, Numidians, Gaul, and after a brief alliance the back stabbing Greeks :furious3: . Obviously I was learning the diplomatic ropes in this game. The middle game gets a little easier, but is still no picnic. At your first opportunity convert the Gauls into an ally. They came around after I had put the Spanish faction out of commission. You don't have to give up any cities, just survive the early game. Caralis was a Julii graveyard for more years than I care to remember. It would have got boring if I didn't enjoy kicking the Romans around. Caralis is a great training ground for Generals as mentioned in another posting. Emphasize your cavalry, that is the Carthaginian strength. Even when you have elephants. Use the Elephants as wrecking balls, and follow up the Elephant charges with Cavalry. In fact, if necessary sacrifice your cavalry to save the elephants backsides literally. That appears to be the Elephants weakness is their rear. Keep the Elephants moving always, and protect their rear. Then, turn loose the cavalry on the routing enemy. Elephants and Cavalry have been unstoppable so far in the game. Use Skirmishers to screen, and to support phalanx troops in urban fighting. Archers are probably the most deadly Roman unit, but can be managed by using skirmishers to engage archers. Then use cavalry against any archers that stray to far from their infantry support.

At this point in the Game, the only remaining enemies are the Roman Brutii, and the Greeks. The Western Mediterranean is my pond, and the eastern Mediterranean will be soon (along with our Egyptian allies). Good to have both flanks covered with Gaul, and Egypt as allies. In the end game you will need cavalry to even get into a fight. The Romans run in fear as soon as they see the Carthaginian army. Could it be from all of the @$$ wippings they have been taking? They do keep coming, even when all they have is depleted units. Let the Romans break on a Fortress. In my case it was Caralis early, then Patavium, and Segestica once Cathage took Italy. The Romans never seem to give up once they have a city in mind. Use that city as a training ground for Generals, and to create Veteran units. Then hit the Romans where they are weak.

I like the Sacred Band Infantry. But am having a hard time getting them into the fight against the Romans in field battles. I have had better luck getting them in the action against the Greeks, and in urban warfare. The Romans have generally routed by the time the phalanx troops arrive in field battles.

Hope this helps, more tricks in a later posting.

Duke Kent

Will have to try the strategy of sacking and selling off buildings of Romans in the early game as suggested in another posting. Interesting, and cunning strategy. Something Ghengis Khan might relish ~;)

Orb

01-07-2005, 17:08

I've begun playing a M/H campaign with Carthage. I have found that three things are very helpful at the start:

1) Take Sicily. I took Syracuse first as once that is lost the Greeks do not try to recapture it. The Romans try to recapture Messana so I try to take Syracuse first.
2) Hold Corduba and ally with Gaul.
3) Kill Scipii. Start off by hammering the navy as they start with no ports and only a couple of ships.

I tried to play as Carthage once before and lost Corduba to Gaul and so found that allying with them is very helpful. I then lost Caralis to the Julii because I did not reinforce it as they attacked 2nd turn. I was surprised and all of my troops were either in Africa demolishing the Numidians or in Sicily besieging Syracuse. With two thirds of my army trundling across africa they mauled Numidia but I lost Sicily. NEVER DO THIS. I found that the Scipii began to attack Carthage. With my army near Egypt I could not face the Romans in Sicily again. I also started using infantry as my main force. In short, it was a mistake.

Use cavalry as much as possible. Ally with the Gauls and maybe the Greeks. Kill Scipii quickly. I did it this time round by taking Capua and Messana simultaneously. It required a little skill in the battles but it worked. I moved on to attack the Spanish. I also sent a half-stack to attack the Julii having withdrawn from Capua (it wasn't worth the trouble of facing the senate and the Brutii to keep it.

The Julii lost a lot of men against my cavalry and the Gauls. The alliance I had made earlier came in handy. I have now destroyed Scipii and Spain and Julii is almost dead. I am now going to try and take Rome.

Redleg

02-08-2005, 16:45

Currently playing this fraction on VH/VH - got myself allied with the Numidian and Spanish by the third turn - the cost of this was having to maintain large armies in three cities - that I could use elsewhere. But when I tried to get the alliance and then move my armies against the Romans - well the Spanish and Numidian sensing weakness decided to attack. Going to have to maintain that allaince until I either defeat the Roman Senate and Juili - or I will be fighting on more then one front.

While I was getting my alliances with Spain and Numidia, I moved against Scipi in Silicy right away - I destroyed Scipi as a faction by 267 BC and Bruiti as a faction by 264 BC. After destorying Bruiti the Greeks entered into Trade rights with me - and so did Gaul.

I think the key to winning as this faction is to isolate Rome into fighting for their lives in their cities. Currently working on getting an alliance with Gaul so that they can take some pressure off of Cart - by attacking Juili. I think after defeating the Roman Senate armies outside of Rome - That I can either sack Rome or get the Romans to get into a cease fire. Once that Happens that will allow my faction to build more forces into Italy and develope better Infantry forces then the Militia and Ibrian forces I have not.

The key to this fraction is never to autoresolve the battles - by autoresolving the computer kills off your one elephant Unit. This unit is key in demolishing the city gates - because you can not afford to seige cities in Italy - you must attack the gates immediately - the defensive ablity of the Carthage army is almost none existent as far as I can determine.

Use the Numidian Cav on the Flanks of the Romans and also Round Shield Cav - it weakens the romans ability to close with the Ibrian Infantry. Also careful use of the single elephant unit allows them to remain intact - to destroy the Roman Armies - I have used the elephants in 4 seige battles and 3 open field battles and still retain all 6 elephants.

As someone mentioned concentrate on roman fractions - I went after Scipi first and took out two roman factions by the end of 12 turns - ie 6 years of game. Now I have plently of breathing room to sack rome, get a cease fire - but most important I have income coming in to offset the cost of maintaining the armies from Carthage - the loss of income from that city is just amazing.

Once you take out at least two roman factions - I think the next thing to do is build an income base on the cities you do have - as long with alternating improving the army base that you have. However I find Carthage to be a very challenging faction to play - compared to some of the others in the game.

The 1.2 patch has made this faction actually better to play in my opinion.

katank

02-08-2005, 19:13

Carthage is definitely a blast to play. The Carthaginian blitz is the best rush in the game.

On the first turn, load the faction heir into the boat off Carthage and sail as far as possible to the north coast of Sicily and load the Faction leader's army into the boat.

Queue boats in Carthage.

Second turn you can get the amphibious invasion force to sit off the coast of Capua.

Third turn you can sack Capua. Exterminate and leave the faction heir there on low taxes. Move Faction leader toward Tarentum and then you can sack Tarentum on the 4th turn and Croton on the fifth.

You can send the faction heir to Messana and hire mercs to take it combined with a spy. With any luck, You can thus eliminate both the Scipii and the Brutii on turn 5.

Taking out the Senate is easy by abundant use of eles.

Note that a cav charge following the eles is very effective. Abuse the faction leader and faction heir's recharging BGs to maximum effect.

Pumping a navy should prevent the Julii from landing in Caralis.

SwordsMaster

02-09-2005, 01:28

Hey, katank is back!! rejoice!! ~:cheers:

I played Carthage both rushing the romans, and without, and I think it is more fun without rushing them. You can take Sicily, but you actually want to get those Poeni Infantry and Sacred Bands, don´t you? And it is hard to wish a better foe than a full roman stack...

RollingWave

02-09-2005, 12:45

My faction leader died of natural causes on the second starting turn ~:handball: on my h/h game.... but luckily the spaniards and numidian have stayed off me for now while the Scipiies and the Greeks are killing each other on Sciliy without my help... yet :P

Carthage line up seems pretty good... usable infantry (not great but definately good enough for support unlike some of the eastern factions...) very good calvary too....

Key is basically take sciliy without taking too much dmg.... with sciliy u basically elimiate one roman faction completely... if u can build up ur island settlements u should be pretty wealthy... the bad news is that taking sciliy probably will make the Brutis pretty strong soon... if u don't give a helping hand :P

Still i don't feel carthage is THAT hard, they are kinda like the greeks but is acturally in a easier position with better line ups too....

katank

02-09-2005, 19:01

Thanks, SwordMaster, good to be back.

I find that the blitz does turn you into a practically invincible powerhouse almost immediately. You can micro and keep only a governor in Carthage and enslave any place you capture to pump up Carthage's population quickly. With the grain resource there, little upgrading is necessary and 12k pop is a piece of cake. This is enough for sacred band.

Sacking Rome slightly later after playing the blitz would allow it to grow to larg city size and you can often take over it with an ar4my barracks fully built for instant poeni production.

Key to success in defensive game is Sicily but in the blitz, gambiting Lilybaeum is well worth it. Not a true gambit as the Scipii rarely tries for Lilybaeum anyhow.

One thing that's important is to get Corduba's pop up ASAP. Use of enslavement will allow it to get to a large town quickly which is necessary to secure trade rights with the Spanish and bribe away the captain stacks. You don't want to focus on the west at the beginning.

On turn 2 or 3, getting a diplomat out is very important to secure trade rights and bribe away a numidian captain that invariably wanders over to Carthage from Cirta.

Not getting into a brawl with these factions allow you some decent breathing room.

RollingWave

02-12-2005, 08:18

I took a more standard conservative approach to carthage... now i have sciliy, the lower italies, western north africa and Iberia... however it has been pretty rough with the Romans and Gaul/Spaniards blockading me left and right with small stacks causing massive trade loss for me...

I find that Carthage is horrible at sieging big cities too since they don't have any good infantry to use on walls... they get onagers but have a pretty poor range lineup to go with it (ironically their best ranged unit comes from their stable XD)... causing very few high lvl ranges for me.... i learned this the hard way when trying to seige the Brutiis capital... had to wait out 8 turns after a failed seige attempt (their onager took out mine and then i could do flowers lol..)

the numidians are left squeezed between me and egypt now, I think i should leave them that way so I don't have to get into war with the Eggies and march across a vast desert....

RollingWave

02-13-2005, 21:03

Hmmm, i changed my mind, carthage is acturally pretty good at siege but you have to use a different approach, i was using the ole Roman approach which was why i was very unsuccessful, the key to seiging with carthage is NOT fighting on the walls, their phalanx infantry are very good at pushing through gates and breaches in the wall (and through the street) use Iberian infantries sparingly as melee support for ur sacared band and ponic infantry. and almost nothing will beat you, although the greeks may have better phalanx... they don't have the decent swordsmen to go along with it.

Took me quiet a while to advance up Italy though... as all 4 roman faction ganged up on me as i try to finish the Scipiies... i had to land another army and take Rome itself by surprise (with mass onager and phalanx... in one turn before they can react) before i could advance up... funny enough my faction leader is now 89 years old and still going!!!!!! XD... guess this is a make up for my first leader that died on the 2nd turn lol.

I wonder if it's a good idea for me now to make up a army and make a long expedition to Rhodes :P... with my huge naval trade that extra 40% seems like a really worthwhile cause lol.

SwordsMaster

02-14-2005, 12:25

Ok, I need some tips:

Carthage, h/h, 247bd approx. I control Corduba, Cartage Nova, Palma, Caralis (sieged by Julii) Carthage, Thapsus, Lepcis Magna, Messana, Lylibaeum, Cyrene.

Diplomatic status: war against: Numidia (I dont get into open battles, but just wait for them to siege my cities and defeat them, dont have funds for an aggressive war...

Spain: IMHO the toughest one, they use lots of wardogs that eat up my iberians for breakfast.... Same approach, I only fight in chokepoints. And I hate the lack of ranged units....

Gaul: Not much of a problem, annoying more than actually problematic. Betrayed me twice. I always have superior cavalry to make up for them always outnumbering me at least 2/1.

Romans: all of them, although the Julii are the biggest problem. They are the only ones who have ever defeated me when I tried to lift the siege of Caralis. (I was unlucky with the terrain too.... cavalry is no good in forests...)

All my allies betrayed me at some point, first the Romans, then the Gauls, spain and Numidia. My only trading partners now are Greeks and Eggies, but my income only amounts to about 1000 a turn which is barely enough to patch my losses and keep my ports from being blockaded...

I have tried negotiating a ceasefire with everyone, but I had no luck so far....

Basically the problem is, that I can only hold them off, but I cant seriously cripple any of my enemies.... And I will probably have to abandon Caralis as well, there is just no chance I can send in another army (which I dont have).

RollingWave

02-14-2005, 16:58

You are facing a 3 front war basically then, my suggest is take out the Numidians first, secure the west side of north Africa, commit what little you can muster to that cause first, because that will be the most easy to accomplish with a clear end (unlike Iberia and Italia), you only need to take 2-3 more cities and that side will not bother you anymore, leaving Numidia with only Siwa will elminate as a threat.(and a good buffer between you and the eggies)

If you REALLY can't handle it another possiblity is to abandon Corduba, either sell it to another faction or tear it to the ground urself (or both :P) Then use that money to finish the Numidian.

Beating the Romans is Rough, land a few surpirse force on Italy, the Brutiies cities will usually be the poorest defended, while the Scipiies and Rome will be heavily defended and will probably require another army around the back to take succesfully.

SwordsMaster

02-14-2005, 20:12

I sont really want to abandon Corduba after all it took me to keep it, and the money Ive spent in building it up... I ould consider leaving Cartage Nova, if things get really tough, and Caralis (I dont have much choice, It appears).

I cant really wage a decent war against the numidians, because I cant chase them down. My cavalry is heavier, and my effort lately has been devoted into developing heavy poeni infantry for my war against gaul and Julii. Again, I cant spare an army big enough as to take a city and mantain it for long enough so I can fetch reinforcements, specially in Africa where the distances are huge...

You gave me an idea though.... I might use part of the iberian army to take Tingis, and thus open another front for the Numidians....

SwordsMaster

02-15-2005, 12:33

Some updates:

Good news first:

In one genius move arount the mountains in Iberia, I cornered 2 spanish family members with 2/3 stack armies between my one good army and the Corduba garrison and only 70 of them managed to get alive, both family members were dead, and the captain leading the battle is now a 4* family member. I lost about 200 men altogether, most of them town militia and skirmishers.

I immeditately followed north to engage in the plain south of the Tagus a gaulish family member with a full stack which resulted in a "heroic" victory and swords placed on the ground, losing Carthage: 68 men, Gaul: 782 + both family members in the stack.

So now I control the Bridge on the Tagus that overlooks both the river and the access to Corduba from 2 of the 4 directions it can be accessed.

So my position in Spain is solid again (for a while).

The julii have finally taken Caralis, but now my army, reinforced with 1 elephants and 2poeni infantry I managed to scrape from Carthage is besieging the city, and the julii make no attempt to break the siege.

Now the bad news:

The numidians have besieged Lepcis, and there is just no way I can get any reinforcements there. My garrisons are reduced to minimums, and reinforcing Caralis has left Africa stripped.

Its interesting.... It has been a while since the last time I actually struggled this way...

RollingWave

02-18-2005, 09:49

My current situation in my V/V carthage situation is.

Killed of the Senate and the Scipiies, push the Brutiies off Italy and is pushing head long against the Jullies, control the west side of African, leaving the Numidians with Siwa as a buffer between me and Egypt.

The Spainiards are gone and the Guals were cut up by me/jullies/Briton, Briton is now huge having taken out the Germans/Gaul and even parts of Dacia!!! although they aren't at war with me they are allied with the Jullies (why do AI always get to get those though and illogical alliances while I cant lol... ), however I hold the Iberian and they can't make much of a move on me (though my Iberian forces is massively inferior to my Italian forces which is a concern, i can't produce anything better than longshield/libyian on the Iberian itself and only have 2 damaged unit of elephants there. had a lucky break beating a Jullie army twice my size that tried to push into Iberia by a all out elephant charge killing their general)

Obviously at the moment pushing the Jullies out and move into upper Italy is the most clear objective, but where to go after that is quiet hard to decide, pushing into the barbarian lands seem to be wild goose chase, while going west seem to be a major overstretch and a clash with the Titans (facing the build up eggies with the non existant range force of carthage is quiet a dreaded thought)... the current big powers left besides me right now are Briton/Egypt/Jullies/Brutiies.

Funny thing is my leader is now 96 years old!!!! WTF, I'm thinking about moving my capital to Rome after I push back the Jullies to make easier future conquest (though I could just slaughter all the populace and problem solved XD...)

Ulfang

03-09-2005, 14:37

Ooo very interesting thread. Only just spotted that the forum has guides on it lol

I'm playing Carthage in my first Hard/Hard game. Previously only used medium difficulty and the games became very boring, too easy and the battles tended to be easy and i took very little casualties. Since i've been playing Hard/hard its been great ... maybe its because Carthage is quite challenging though? Dunno but its all good!

I immediately warred on the Scipii. I knew they'd attack me pretty soon anyway so first concentrated on Sicily! The Greeks launched a sneak attack from Syracuse the turn after and after dispatching both armies and taking the Roman settlement Syracuse rebelled, the Greeks took it back with losses and I moved in to finish them off securing Sicily! This basically ended any problems with the Romans as i'd developed a decent sized navy which easily had the upperhand and sunk everything the Romans sent at me!

I was also at war with Gaul who attacked me in Spain pretty quickly so with my allies the Spanish I decided to move into Gaul. Took me a long time to get an army large enough to do this cos of cash flow problems but the Spanish had allied with me (they approached me) and tho they cancelled the alliance after I was negotiating with them about maps they soon agreed to ally again. Once I was in Gaul they stabbed me in the back and launched a sneak attack! I'm now on my way back from Gaul to finish them off which I should have done before moving against Gaul!

I also raised an army to take on Numidia as I couldn't risk leaving them as my neighbours with most of my armies moving out of North Africa! They are pretty easy as all their armies are small. Most of my armies are made up of Mercenaries due to the fact my Light infantry are crap! I've recruited quite a few Gallic Infantry along with lots of Slingers and missile cavalry!

Because of so little income i haven't been able to upgrade my troop facilities so my armies are all light. This is starting to be a problem now as other factions are recruiting heavy troops! I have been building a lot of economic buildings though and now my income is around 3000/turn. I also sent diplomats to every faction i'm not at war with to create trade agreements! Problem i seem to have now though is because the cities have grown quite slowly i don't have anymore happiness upgrades so have had to lower several cities taxes to low to stop them rebelling. Even on low taxes some of them have a happiness rating of around 80.

Things are really interesting though and besides happiness in some cities i'm sitting quite comfortably. The Romans haven't expanded very far, Gaul is still very strong as well as Germanica and particularly Egypt. I'm not sure if Egypt will be a problem for me. At the moment there's still a Numidian province between myself and Egypt. From peoples experience does Egypt have eyes on the West? If I went to war with them it would be bad considering my situation with Spain, Numidia and Gaul!

mystic brew

03-09-2005, 17:31

i really wouldn't worry about Egypt.

they are one hell of a long way away from any of your provinces that matter.

and with your superior field position, you can organise your fleets to effectively cut off the Western med...

i forget the name of the rebel province between Siwa and Lepcis Magna. but one fleet of big ships pus watchtowers and picket biremes and you can intercept and destroy any egyptian fleets.

Land wise, it's hugely unlikely the Egyptians will push any particularly large force west for 10 or so turns when they will most likely be heavily engaged with PArthia/Selucia in the East.

in my campaign i decided to give myself a crusade style mission which involved going against Egypt...

Carthage was a city that was founded, or was certainly a colony of the old city state of Tyre...
so i thought for the glory of the Carthaginian state, i should invade Antioch and the trade cities around it..

so i had to project power all the way from Carthage to Anticoh, where the initial landings would take place.

As you can imagine, this took some time to organise, and i won't go into the details of it..

but to answer your question, a heavy fleet patrolling gap between sicily and africa plus another in the sicily carthage gap, plus spies to check on where the egyptians are headed... no worries.

Ulfang

03-10-2005, 13:01

Yea its just finding the cash to cover every area where its needed. I'm having real problems keeping order in some of my cities now and even with low Taxes they're suffering! In cordoba i have all the Public order buildings for its size and a healthy garrison and on low taxes and the public orde rating is still 70 and now the people are starting to rebel but there's noting else i can do to keep em happy!

My Navy was a little spread out as well and some were re-assigned to ferrying troops to Spain. A small Roman Navy slipped through and i sent all available shups against it, most lost the battle and just one won but now most of my navies are dangerously low in strength. Should have made sure the Navy was stocked up with the best ships but money has been going into Economy, Mercenaries and Public order! Still it makes it very interesting lol

I also gave the Gaul city I had to Macedon as a Gift expecting it to Rebel straight away or the Gauls move in and take it and guess what? NO SUCH LUCK lol They have minimal troops in there (when I had it i had 4 units and its was ready to rebel) but everything looks fine and the Gauls have gone around them and headed straight to Spain!

More and more heavy troops are appearing in enemy armies which is a worry as I still am not upto that level but fortunately I have at least 5 units of Calvalry in each army and while the heavies are decimating my light infanty my Cavalry hit them from the rear and rout them!

RollingWave

03-10-2005, 13:45

I had similar experiences for Corduba... even with huge garrison and most of the happiness buildings the public orders are still going very low... which caused me to decide in my new Carthage game to build temple of Baal in Corduba right off the bat instead...

Interestingly Carthage itself i managed to have pretty decent public order despite a relatively small garrison while very high tax and population.

SwordsMaster

03-10-2005, 14:39

Ulfang

03-10-2005, 16:40

And spies lower public order? Didn't know that. I only normally leave spies in cities that are likely to be attacked to stop the gates being opened :)

Ok forget that question I just checked the Game Mechanics Thread :) I'll build a spy and see what happens!

RollingWave

03-10-2005, 17:47

I did have many spies and assasins as taht was what i thought was wrong.. but no there wasn't.. (or that the spy was so damn good that even with 4-5 spy assasin in my town he still manage to stay there for ages.)

Yes spies lower public order when they are in enemy towns... 1 star lowers 5 % with a maximun of 10 stars cap , so it is possible to lower enemy town's public order by 50% by hoarding spies into it. (and then use assasins for even more lowring ... but i find that AI towns seem much less prone to revolts than my own :/)

Ulfang

03-10-2005, 18:56

but i find that AI towns seem much less prone to revolts than my own :/)

Yea I find AI armies and Towns are a lot less prone to allsorts of things ;)

RollingWave

03-11-2005, 04:01

Yea I find AI armies and Towns are a lot less prone to allsorts of things ;)
Yeah, like intelligent dessicsions and planing....... XD

Shadar

03-13-2005, 14:10

I've been playing quick custom games with Carthage, especially in sieging.. and i must say that Romans are crazy ~:eek:

Also must note for sieges: For the 2nd and 3rd stone wall levels..

Repeating ballistas on your siege towers are your friends. abuse it lots and lots and lots. With these lovely repeating ballistas - you can make up for very very poor wall-fighting infantry - they will decimate the wall defenders in seconds (literally... watch the defenders melt away before your eyes). Just stop your siege towers before the wall, leave them on fire at will. You will take losses on that unit, but its definitely worth it to almost utterly destroy the offending stubborn unit.

(this works with all factions - just that carthage and other phalanx-heavy factions REALLY need this in assaulting walls. It doesn't work for the 1st level stone walls (i think), but thats livable since those cities shouldn't be that teched up = weaker troops.)

If you don't have that, 2 onaghers are a must with your army - so you can quickly bring down a section of the wall not covered by the towers, and then you can push your phalanx in :D. Eventually you'll win. eventually (hopefully you don't have the timer on). Since with a frontal assault on your good phalanx troops (poeni/sacred band) - they will last a LONG time, but they won't kill much either. Pretty much its a trade-off between stamina and power.

RollingWave

03-14-2005, 10:01

Shadar, there is a turret for lvl 1 seige tower too, but it's more like a chain bow shooter, and not very effective against any unit with a reasonable shield bonus.

The key to seigeing with phalanx is obviously avoid the walls!!!!, take out the gate house and towers with onagers if you can, and then break the wall down with sap or onager, then just march ur phalanx towards the square, make them come down the walls to fight you, yes you can't beat them on the walls, but hell they can't defend their square on their walls either.

Phalanx espically higher quality onces like Sacred band and Ponei infantries are utterly insane while pushing down a city street, as you can't flank them thx to the buildings, and you can't overwhelm them either thx to the narrow street, which takes away both methods of beating a phalanx with other infantry/calvaries. i've easily had sacred bands killed 10 times their losses in such fights.

katank

03-15-2005, 04:11

Carthage truly have craptacular inf. However, the siege tower trick no longer works in 1.2. There is now limited ammo for the siege towers and there is no longer uber shot at the beginning of the battle.

Shadar

03-15-2005, 09:42

I've been using 1.2 since i started playing RTW - i don't seem to have any problem on the matter of limited ammo. Its limited ammo per tower, just get more siege towers before the battle starts and exchange siege towers with depleted ammo with new siege towers.

The only snag is that you DO need to wait a few turns for the siege towers to be built, but at least that limits your blitzing power if you insist on getting enough siege towers per siege.

Plus, the towers have fairly long range, thus don't need to move that close to the wall to fire their shots anyways.

That way though, you are able to fight on the walls more effectively AND take the gatehouse. That means that you don't need like 2+ heavy onaghers to try and batter one section of the wall down, and thus can field more infantry. Heavy onaghers ARE useful in some occasions, but for the epic walls i feel its a lot easier just to capture the gatehouse and move your troops in that way.

MackBolan

03-15-2005, 09:47

I agree with many who've posted. Carthage needs to played in a "lighting war" fashion. Take as much as you can, as soon as you can, then sit on your butt and collect until you have enough denarii to do it again. I started out on H/H, but i was a bit overwhelemed early in the game. Syrascuse posed a problem because it had two archer units on the walls and my ladder guys we're getting pretty torn up on the way to the walls. But eventually I had all of Sicily. I reinforced Messana and began building additional forces in Syracuse and Lilybeaum. When the volcano blows, your Messana population will drop to like 500. You need to get troops in there ASAP, after the volcano blows, so it doesnt revolt.

Down in Numidia, its a walk in the park. Numidia is weak. Their cities fall w/little effort, and their armies are pathetic. I never faced a Numidian army over 500-600. Once you have the whole north west coast of africa, take the city to the east of Corduba, Narbo Carthaga or something like that. That whole part of the ocean is yours. Take all of Numidia, and enslave or exterminate. None of these cities will ever be useful for anything more than trade.

From here I started with the south of Italy and took the Bruitii cities. They had already taken Thermon and Appolonia so they ended up lasting a little longer than I wanted. But I stuck w/Italy and moved my way up. I took Capua, Arimunum and Areetieum then lay siege to Rome. Rome is tough, but italy was finally all mine. I took Mediolanium and Patavium to block any Gauls and left a smal garrison in each.

Now I was at a fork in the road. I could begin assualt on Egypt, Spain/Gaul, or The Greek Cities and Macedon. Once West Africa and Italy were mine, I had a pretty good cashflow. But money is power and The Greeks and Macedonians have plenty. So I trained Poenii, Sacred Band Cav, and War Elephants in Carthage, and a bunch of Iberian and Longshield Cav in Croton and Tarentum. I ferried my troops over with a 7 star General and two decent governers.

Sparta was a breeze, Corinth took some time, and Athens was a pain, but the Medditeranian was all but mine. Cash is flowing, my armies are crushing my enemies, and I have a lot of Sacred Band Cav/Inf and Elephants, all before 200 BC

Basically Carthage will become a walk in the park if you play fast and aggresive. But you need to pick your targets well. I havent started on Egypt or Spain/Gaul yet.

Ulfang

03-15-2005, 13:54

Interesting! I went for Spain as I wanted Gaul as the Julii don't seem to have bothered with them. I was allied with Spain which feel through so I had to take over Spain which was a breeze. My problem has always been lack of money and not being able to upgrade quickly. I only started getting my slightly better light troops about 250bc. I find now that everyone is getting the heavy stuff and i'm a bit behind. A lot of cash went on Mercenaries as my armies that invaded Gaul were quite small. I now own Spain and am setup for an invasion of Gaul who have large armies but are easily defeated cos of their lack of Cavalry. Most of my armies have at least 5 units of cavalry so its very mobile and even if their infantry is more than a match for mine while they're fighting my infantry I hit them with my cav and they soon break.

Rome has been no problem at all. As soon as I took Sicily I built up my Navy and have sunk every amphibious invasion they sent at me! They are building the best ships now which is a level i'm not at yet but i'm still holding my own. None of the other countries have been a problem for me. Macedon sails around the Med but don't bother me, they're too busy fighting the Scipii which is the only Roman faction to have advanced anywhere.

My only problem is the big cities are all close to revolt. I'm assuming its because of foreign spies but each of my cities has at least three of my own spies but obviously these enemy spies must be high level. I do find some now and then but the cities order never goes over 80 which means I have to have low taxes in these cites and full garrison which still isn't always enough.

katank

03-15-2005, 23:21

All yer problems are easily solved by repeatedly giving those big cities to the enemy and enslaving it again on the same turn. Keep governors in the cities you want the population to teleport to and you are good to go.

The troublesome cities will require only a peasant to garrison, only if previously large and only just conquered. Messena's volcano will kill that city's population anyways so use this enslavement cheese to move the population out to somewhere safe like carthage.

By repeatedly dumping the population back and forth, you can thus level up your cities quickly. You can produce armored elephants in no time.

scipio the even younger

03-16-2005, 13:32

k i suppose that you think that carthage is gonna be a ppush over.WRONG!
against numidia u might start to think this will be a push over well you'rewrong.numidia is easy.you've got better calvalry and that is what nuidian armys r made from.
your armies r virtully cavalry so spain and gaul would be pretty easy,but britains have chariots which rip your cavalry apart and germanians have those bloody spears.romans are okay but will rip your cavalry if they survive the charge.
then every other place has pikes hopiltes or chariots.some have both,lik egtyians have amazing pikes and unbeliverbul chariots.selucids have every thing you have and more.greeks will kick your arse in big battles.romans always scare your elephants with those pigs.
but ifd you play well you will kick but remember cathage infantry suck cavalry is the way forward( :charge: )

katank

03-16-2005, 18:58

Numidia is easy to beat. However, it's not from lack of cavalry roster. Your cav roster is shared by numidia and spain except for the fact that numidians have jav cav instead of round shields.

If Numidia survives to get camels, they'll rip your cav up quick. Your elephants are overpowered and following up the ele charge with cav charge can usually cause insta-rout of the entire enemy battleline. Forest eles will die against hoplites but you have 2xp balearic slingers from Palma that can maul hops.

adg

03-17-2005, 12:50

i am playing Carthage on VH -campaign/M-battles. i had just come off playing M:TW so a lot of my play was influenced by what worked there. i started off by getting an alliance with the greeks and the spanish and a little later i also got an alliance with the britannia before sending my diplomats around the world to get as many trade agreements as possible. once the scippii attacked the greeks i attacked them and took Mesaana. as this was only my second campaign and i hadn't discovered this board, i thought this would cripple the scippi for a while and i went on to take out the numidians leaving siwa. imagine my surprise when the bruti landed a large army at mesaana and the julii landed at caralis. i defeated the brutii army but lost caralis. as i was preparing an army at carthage to take back caralis another brutii army landed near thapsus, so i had to take them out. then the greeks on sicily decided to attack lillybyem so i had to take out syraceus. after sinking a few greek ships, they offered me a ceasefire which i took. meanwhile the scippi were landing unimpressive armies for me to demolish on sicily. during all this the spanish kept trying to bribe my general in cordoba and failing. i decided to take out the romans and landed troops in southern italy and easily took out the brutii cities and capua (amazingly the brutti had not conquered anything in greece so i ended up wiping out both factions). i took out rome, reconquered caralis and took out the numidians in the siwa. as soon as i took siwa though, massive egyptian armies appeared and chased me out of siwa. i then took the three julii provinces in northern italy and paid them a lot of denari to become a protectorate. because the julli were allied with the egyptians, as soon as they became a protectorate, i automatically got a ceasefire with the egyptians. meanwhile the britons had taken out the gauls and celtiberia was now a rebel city. after taking numantia i decided to break my alliance with the spanish and took them out easily in a few turns. i also took crete which once i build a port there is a good little money earner. during this time the egyptians broke the ceasefire and i have spent much of my time with them just battling over siwa (there is about 6 famous battlesites around siwa now) before finally pushing them back. i have just taken cyprus, thebes, memphis and alexandria but am now facing unrest in a lot of my cities. and memphis and alexandria are suffering from the plague. also i didnt know about getting rid of foreign temples in the cities i've conquered so this is probally a contributing factor in my unrest problems. plus i didnt know anything about controlling population growth. i think i shoud have exterminated the populace in the three main egyptians cities as they are all huge cites. I did find myself reling mainly on my cavalry in battles though.

Ulfang

03-17-2005, 16:16

Sounds about right :) I'm a Vet of MTW too and still prefer that era and you could more or less trust your allies back then. In RTW unless you are a protectorate of someone or they are one of yours you can forget trusting anyone! I was allied with Spain they broke that alliance twice before i eventually wiped them off the map. The stupid thing is even then its next to impossible for them to win a war they'll still declare war on you!

The way to stop the Romans is have enough Naval units in the Med and staying ahead in Naval technology! I've ruled the Med since the start and the romans have tried many time to land troops on my islands but have been sunk every time! I've not had a single problem with them.

I'm the same with public order its been my worst enemy. If enemy spies are in your cities that will affect it so you need to keep one or two spies in your cities (or your biggest ones if you can't afford that). I control all of Numidia now as well as Spain and all the Med Islands. The only problem is the lack of cash. I'm making about 4-5k a turn now but rely on mercenaries in Spain so it can take a while to build things up!

Without Cavalry Cathage struggles but with them the mobile armies are very strong. I've taken on heavy troops with my light armies and the cavalry wins the day everytime and i'm playing on h/h. Last battle i fought was against the numidians and was a small encounter with the Numidians with 800 troops to my 300. My army consisted of one Mercenary Hoplite unit, some javelinmen and the rest was Missile Cavalry, a General's bodyguard and some round shield light cav against them with about 5-6 units of spearmen, 2 units of Misslile cav, A general with bodyguard and javelinmen. Was touch and go to start with but with the cav used to great effect I eventually decimated them. I lost 100 men and they lost 700

Atreides

03-18-2005, 08:42

@ adg

You can (and should) destroy the temples of any other faction then the Numbian, the Numbian are similar to your culture and have YOUR gods. You can do this by:
1. Go to the city.
2. Right click on the temple
3. There is a destroy button. It appears as a hammer.

Good luck.

Ulfang

03-18-2005, 16:03

adg

03-18-2005, 17:41

well, i just read the beginners guide at the top of the forum and it tells you. for example all the barbarians have the same culture (gaul, britannia, scythia), and all the roman factions have the same culture. but i had no idea about culture when i started the game. another thing was that in M:TW i had automanage taxes on but in R:TW, i think automanaging taxes results in too much unrest

Atreides

03-18-2005, 20:01

Yea i've heard that before. How do you know if the culture is the same as yours. I always slaughter the populace when taking over a city cos as far as i know there's no way to know prior to taking it over if the populace will be happy with their new owners so its too dangerous to just occupy the settlement!?

Culture according the guide on this forum (which is great! )

Group I: Romans. SQPR, Julii, Brutii & Scpii.
Group II: Greeks. Greek cities, Macedon, Thrace, the Selucid empire.
Group III: Barbarians: Gauls, Germania, Britania, Dacia, Spain
Group IV: Africans: Carthage, Numidia, Egypt(? not sure)
Group V: Easterns: Parthia, Armania, Scythia, Pontus

To lower cultural penalty:
--> destroy temple (build yours) (uneless it's your culture)
--> Destory/Overwrite buildings. I prefer overwriting, cheaper and faster. Overwriting is level 1 barracks was present --> build level 2.

So do not always enslave. Only large cities are a real problem. Distence to capital also matters. But that is more an and game issue (rember you can move your capital).

AntiochusIII

03-18-2005, 21:27

Egypt is a unique culture of its own. However, if you, whoever you are (Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, etc.) have control of the Pyramid wonder (near Memphis) you will recieve no cultural penalty from the Egyptian buildings in any cities.

Sometimes you may want to keep some other faction's temples standing for their bonuses which you have no access to. Though, in most cases, just burn the temples down. However, if it's a +law temple in an unruly-newly conquered city you may want it to stand there for a while until you're sure that city won't rebel without it.

The same culture don't always mean the same temples are accessible to all factions of that culture. For example: there is no Athena's temple for the Seleucids, though you will not suffer cultural penalty if you left it standing. You won't be able to upgrade it, however.

Ulfang

03-19-2005, 15:41

Culture according the guide on this forum (which is great! )

Group I: Romans. SQPR, Julii, Brutii & Scpii.
Group II: Greeks. Greek cities, Macedon, Thrace, the Selucid empire.
Group III: Barbarians: Gauls, Germania, Britania, Dacia, Spain
Group IV: Africans: Carthage, Numidia, Egypt(? not sure)
Group V: Easterns: Parthia, Armania, Scythia, Pontus

To lower cultural penalty:
--> destroy temple (build yours) (uneless it's your culture)
--> Destory/Overwrite buildings. I prefer overwriting, cheaper and faster. Overwriting is level 1 barracks was present --> build level 2.

So do not always enslave. Only large cities are a real problem. Distence to capital also matters. But that is more an and game issue (rember you can move your capital).

Yea read the Guide properly last night. I'd just brushed over it previously :) My problem areas have always been Spain. I checked last night and what an idiot ... I still had foreign temples! I thought i'd razed them and replaced them but obviously not. Order is still low but is now slightly higher than it was once i built my own temples.

You've sort of answered my next question. Other buildings such as Barracks etc that are still foreign. When you say overwrite you mean that when you build to the next level they become your own cultures buildings right? Most of my buildings in Spain are Barbarians but wasn't sure if that affected anything. I mean i can understand a foreign temple causing unrest but not a foreign built Barracks!?

On a final amusing note. The Scipii were wiped out last night when there final City revolted to the hands of barbarians ... something to do with my ships blockading them no doubt :duel:

Atreides

03-20-2005, 01:38

I am not sure if you have an question:

But foreign buildings DO have un cultural penalty.
But most important is the central building (governors building) and of course the temple.

Normally just wait till you van upgrade it (of destroy it).

katank

03-20-2005, 03:05

A couple of things. Scythians are a barbarian culture!

Egyptians are their own culture and have the Pyramids to keep em happy.

Carthaginians and Numidians are the Carthaginian culture. With patch 1.2, mousing over in the town tab will have the culture displayed. For example in Sparta, it might have Awesome Temple of Nike (Greek) in that format.

Governor's can be up to 20% and temples are 30% IIRC. Usually, enslave/exterminate populace and rebuild temples. Governor's you wait to upgrade. All other buildings have negligible culture penalty and are not worth building over.

cunobelinus

03-20-2005, 12:52

carthage i didnt find that hard to play i brought all my troops out of every were but carthage,lilybaeum and palma .and i left corduba alone 2 but i took sicilia by storm and forced the romans back then i built up three armys and set a full scale attack on rome and wiped every one out other than brutti in apollinia .if u attack scippi s.p.q.r and julli,brutti at teh same time they cant help each other therefore u can take them .if u do it before they get to am they are weeker and u can take them easyer . :duel: ~:)

Shadar

03-20-2005, 13:51

I tried one thing, and it actually worked quite well. Quickly sacrifice Cordoba by giving it to anyone as a gift and pull all your troops out to the east, and only keep a poor force in Caralis (at best). Cordoba is basically on their own, and you can't afford to get any reinforcements by navy. I would instead grab Kydonia (that is a REALLY great place for income). Then take Sicily fast (your troops should do a lot better against the Romans if you're on the open plain, since you've got brilliant cavalry, and those elephants really stuff the Romans up).

Consolidate for a few turns - just to quickly build up an army and transport them all to sicily. As soon as the Scipii attack you (its a lot easier to replace losses when you're on home soil), quickly push up through the Italian peninsula and take both the Brutii homelands and the Scipii homelands. (just make sure the Brutii army is actually IN greece first... you don't want too many major battles). And remember to sink any roman ships you find! Take most the peninsula, making sure you blockade the few northern passes with forts.

Remember to liberally use the elephants in every battle, rampaging elephants are the ultimate bane against both the Romans and the Greeks, since they're very infantry based civilisations, and a quick infantry charge or a cavalry charge following the elephants spells death for any infantry. (just don't bother sending elephants against some troops. namely Spartan Hoplites and other elite troops. they'll get massacred).

Craterus

03-20-2005, 16:17

i dont have much experience with campaigns with the carthaginians but taking out the romans before the marius reforms is quite important ~;) :duel:

katank

03-20-2005, 17:13

Atreides

03-20-2005, 21:52

Ulfang

03-21-2005, 13:36

Shadar, I consider it defeatist attitude to let go of Cordoba.

Personally, I use enslaving trick to pump population into Cordoba. Once it grows to large town level, you can produce diplomats to counter Spanish diplomats which are the bane of your existence as that's the only way you lose Cordoba.

You can also bribe the Spanish troops to join you as you share nearly identical rosters. You can rapidly grab all of the Spanish penisula while you mainly focus on the east. Mining in Spain is very profitable.

I agree and if you want to do a "Hannibal" you need a base in Spain. Thats how i'm playing my game now. My Main army has just arrived on the borders of the Alps :)

Gonna try VH/VH next. The game is still to easy really the Romans should do a lot better. In my game both Julii and Scipii were pacifists so now Rome looks pretty much doomed! If you don't play a Roman Faction its should be extremely difficult to beat them!

AntiochusIII

03-26-2005, 04:46

Well, it is if you're an Eastern faction.

They, if left alone, will overrun anything, namely Greece/Africa and began massing armies of principes and triarii to take more and more land. If left alone after that (if you're not cheating and play VH/M in an eastern faction then you probably do) until they get Marian (220 B.C) they'll begin the mass-produce something like...Urban Cohort. Full stack. Plenty of full Urban stacks.

You know what's that supposed to mean, right? ~;p

Why give up Spain? Get one dip/or spy to prevent Spanish bribe and you're fine. You have a decently good army there, you know. Besides, remember..there is 'A Carthage' in Spain! Called Carthago Nova. Take it for Baal's sake! ~D

Of course, the Carthage rush is one of the most appealing in the game. The result would be Carthage - super power within a few years.

Numidia's no threat. They got small armies, attractively weak cities, and if you have a problem with the numidian cavalry then recruit some yourself! ~;)

Though my personal preference here is pretty strange. I beat up Numidia out of Tingi and Cirta but simply make them protecterate in Dimmidi, and give them another, smaller desert town in the deep interior. It's nice to have a protectorate in my back that can never betray me. ~D

Spain? It's wealthy. It's a man-power base. It's easier to conquer than most, and it looks historically nice to own them. You don't even have to ferry reinforcements from Africa to help. Let Spanish-born Carthaginians conquer Spain for Carthage. ~:cool:

Sicily/Italy needs real focus. Beat them hard and fast. Rush until they're doomed. Or...you want challenge? Take Sicily and leave Italy alone. THAT's challenge for late game!

After that (fall of Italy) I often go for the Nile as a bloodiest conqueror of Egypt ever...and the final triumphant 'crusade' to retake Carthage's motherland: Phoenicia as a final 50th province. ~:cheers:

Craterus

03-26-2005, 11:15

After that (fall of Italy) I often go for the Nile as a bloodiest conqueror of Egypt ever...and the final triumphant 'crusade' to retake Carthage's motherland: Phoenicia as a final 50th province. ~:cheers:
Phoenicia - is that Sidon? I don't have the map with me but I am reffering this from memory of a book about the Phoenicians and the beginning of Naval Trade... ~;) ~:)

Atreides

03-28-2005, 15:10

Carthage (M/M)

It’s great game but from the start your utterly ANATOMY. You will be at war probably with:
- All Roman fractions (4)
- Numbia
- Spain
- Gaul

So that will be seven fractions! But if your survive the initial Roman blow. You run the day.

Once Siccily the Romans will attack the Greeks and you afterwards. So sell an alliance to the Greece and attack! Let the Greek fight first (and lose) to the Romans in your combined attack! In this way you can keep them as a powerless ally on your Island. Then take the Roman settlement. They will return on the Siccily over and over again (which bleed them dry).

Keep also your province on Sardine. The juli will attack you but killing is easy. Use it as an training ground for your generals.

Regarding further expansion. Build a good city and defence in Spain. Wait with the expansion. In Africa try to take some rebel towns. But your main aim is Italy. Try to take the last settlement of the Scipii. When you take those settlement the Brutti keep attacking you. So take also their towns. Than take out the senate julli and the (former) Gallic towns.

When conquered real italy you got 12 very rich provinces and some more. Taking Spain and Africa is now easy achievable. What other eara you take is yours. I also took France, the entire Greece area and Egypt. (Yeah 50 provincens is quite a lote).

General tactics:
- The romans are your main foe. They are extremely strong with their infantry. So counterattack that with your very descent Calvary.
- Elephants. Their great. They will be alble to nock down all gates (except with stone walls of course), kills calvery by the dozen and disrupting, intimidating infantry. Best use is an elephant charge directly followed by an calvery attack.
- Don’t loose your initial elephant. Cause you will not be able to train new one for quite a while.
- Play ALL your battles. DO NOT auto resolve.

Well, Carhagens are the most tough campaign you can play with any civilized faction (all Greeks, Romans and Egypt). You don’t need to abbondon any citie, just don’t concentrate since you will NEED to fight the romans.

Ps1: For more detail I recommend the strategy of ‘red harvest’ which is almost identical to mine.
Ps2: Your final units (sacred band infantry, sacred band calvery, War Elephants, Armoured Elephants, Poeni Infantry) are very good.
Ps3: Forget navy. Keep them in your ports for transport duty only.

Bhruic

03-29-2005, 01:47

Ps3: Forget navy. Keep them in your ports for transport duty only.

This is extremely bad advice. With the proper use of navy, you can defend Sicily without ever fighting a land battle.

The only way the Scipii can get to Sicily, once you take their city, is by boat. They will continually load up their armies on a single ship. Sink that ship, and their army goes down with it. This is a much better approach than constantly fighting land battles.

Bh

RollingWave

03-29-2005, 04:05

Also fighting all 7 faction at once is extremely suicidal....

The numidians will not come after you any time soon, espically if you only stay in ur original african provinces (if u expand into rebel provinces the chances increase)

The Gauls will be in deep trouble sooner than you and Spain is their least important front so they will not likely come to attack you either.

Spain will come eventrually, but they are dirt poor as long as you have a decent defense in corduba it shouldn't be a huge problem.

If you do Katank's blitz strat the Scipiies and Bruttis will be gone in a few years

AntiochusIII

03-29-2005, 07:50

Phoenicia - is that Sidon? I don't have the map with me but I am reffering this from memory of a book about the Phoenicians and the beginning of Naval Trade... ~;) ~:)Yes, Phoenicia is Sidon in the game. The Carthaginians were descendants of the Phoenicians, after all. As ruler of half the known world you should at least rule your own homeland, right? ~D

As for "forget your navy." I disagree. The power of Carthage *relies* on the sea. You NEED to rule the sea to protect your long shorelines. Again, for Carthage, there is no better naval defense than completely rule the sea. With your very long shoreline you need to sink the Roman fleet or else meet continuous Roman landings. Besides, as Carthage surely have many interests overseas, you should have a strong navy that ensures that your transporting routes between the continents/islands are always open. And when somebody else with a navy piss you off after the Romans are finished? Sink them! Burn them! And block every single one of their ports. It is effective for me in intimidating the AI, as well, since they tend to ceasefire after a continuous total noval victory on my side and prolonged blockade. And with no ships they can do much less in disturbing you later on.

Atreides

03-29-2005, 07:57

This is extremely bad advice. With the proper use of navy, you can defend Sicily without ever fighting a land battle.

The only way the Scipii can get to Sicily, once you take their city, is by boat. They will continually load up their armies on a single ship. Sink that ship, and their army goes down with it. This is a much better approach than constantly fighting land battles.

Bh

Worth trying BUT. The Spanish, Nubians, 4 Roman factions and the Gaul also will assault your navel.

I do not influence those battles. While i do with normal combat (which make a huge difference).

Your exactly not taking that long to defend Sicily. So why bother with boats?

Anyway. Thanks for the supplemental. In Holland we have a saying: there are more roads that lead to Rome. I think that this is always true especially here

Bhruic

03-29-2005, 09:28

Craterus

03-29-2005, 15:35

thats a good plan, don't let the Scipii expand.. they wont head north or west and if you sink their ships they can't go south..

Atreides

03-30-2005, 08:10

With the 1.2 patch, very few of those factions make ships. I had no trouble at all maintaining naval superiority. I had 3 main fleets, with a couple transport fleets. No one landed anywhere I didn't want them to.

And your "enemies" list is a little misleading. The Numidians can easily be brought on board, as long as you give them another enemy to fight (the Spanish work well). And if you get the Spanish fighting the Numidians, you can make peace with them as well. The SPQR isn't a threat. The Brutii won't come your direction unless you attack them directly. The Julii focus most of their army northward. So the only factions you really fight are the Gaul and Scipii. The Gauls are pathetically easy to fight off, so nothing to worry about there. And if you take the Scipii city on Sicily, they are down to one city, and aren't much of a threat.

Bh

Interesting. I played this campagain manly with patch 1.1. But the fleet issue is IMO a flavour/style you like/dislike.

How did you let the Numidians fight against the Spanish???

Regading the roman Factions:
The Brutti did assault me on Sicily....
The Julli did nothing but attack me on Sardine (the not even attack the [damned] Guals)
SPQR assault me with vessels. And they also Bribed Cordoba away (when my army marched to an Spanish town).

But I agree with you that you it is not SURE you have to fight all of them.

Craterus

03-30-2005, 19:39

The Julli did nothing but attack me on Sardine (the not even attack the [damned] Guals)

The AI Julii never seem to attack the Gaul. They go immediately to Spain. Or wait around in Northern Italy. ~;)

cunobelinus

03-30-2005, 20:32

i found carthage quite easy i abandoned 2 towns .i waited about 10 -15 turns buliding armys and better men.then went with 4 full armys on rome i attacked all four factions in rome beacuse if u attack them all at differnt times they help eachother if u attack all four at once they find it hard to help eachother i took the hole of rome then conentrate.on greece and numdia beacuse they are good but nothing comparing to rome.maek sure u catch rome before they get into am or u will get beat quite easily :duel: ~:)

Craterus

04-04-2005, 20:37

maek sure u catch rome before they get into am or u will get beat quite easily :duel: ~:)

I have to disagree here.. I'm facing the Romans well into AM, they must have had the reforms a while because they've got armies full of Legionary Cohort, but I've yet to be beaten by them yet.

As the game says, (when you are outnumbered 1480 to 20)
"Defeat is almost certain. Only a military genius could win this battle."
Enter military genius - me. ~D :charge:

cunobelinus

04-05-2005, 20:55

I have to disagree here.. I'm facing the Romans well into AM, they must have had the reforms a while because they've got armies full of Legionary Cohort, but I've yet to be beaten by them yet.

As the game says, (when you are outnumbered 1480 to 20)
"Defeat is almost certain. Only a military genius could win this battle."
Enter military genius - me. ~D :charge:
no creatus u are mistaken u are not a miltiary genuis i am

orcorama

04-05-2005, 21:04

littlegannon:
how do you and craterus do a joint campaign?
it sounds interesting

Craterus

04-05-2005, 21:13

We are friends; he lives not far from me. When he comes over to my house, we start a new campaign or continue a previous one. Our current joint-campaign is Spain but we are only a few turns in. ~D There are Play-By-Mail (PBM) Campaigns in the Throne Room forum. These are campaigns which you download or get sent to you and you play a number of turns and then send it to the next person on the list. Visit the Throne Room for more info. ~;)

no creatus u are mistaken u are not a miltiary genuis i am

Please spell my username correctly..

And you wish you were a military genius.

Fisherking

04-07-2005, 22:24

I am a bit frustrated by the Carthaginians.

I can win battles with them but having the money to develop the areas I conquer is hard, not having money makes it hard to conquer new cities.... I am not sure if it is the whole economics system in this game or just that everyone is at war with Carthage but it does not make it as fun to play as some of the eastern factions.

Craterus

04-07-2005, 22:34

Carthage will always be a difficult-ish faction to play because of the immediate opposition to the Romans... This gives you next-to-no-time to develop an army and economy.. The only thing you can do is ward off the Roman armies until you hurt them enough that they take a moment to recover.. You could try to sign some alliances with Roman factions also..

katank

04-08-2005, 02:25

For naval issues, quick build a navy out of Carthage in the beginning to bring your total to 5 or 6 ships. Aggressively keep the Julii off Caralis while performing the Carthaginian blitz. The Romans will get killed quickly and the Senate will be dead before they can build a navy. Then on, don't focus on navy unless for transport purposes and try to stay in port as much as possible. Luckily, Carthage to Sicily and Sicily to Italy as well as Italy to Greece are all journeys that can be completed in a single turn.

RollingWave

04-09-2005, 06:21

If you go after the Romans first or at least secure Sciliy first, money should not be a huge issue as long as you keep a decent naval presence to ward off blockades. one common mistake some people make is putting too much effort early on into taking the poor Iberian and Numidian towns, whie they can be relatively rich later on, the initial investment needed usually means it's usually better to wait a while before taking them.

Acturally going after the Romans early is acturally not a particularly bad thing, at least you usuaully don't need to face the Post marius insanity, while u can build longshield and elephants very quickly (and start out with one) these things simply run over early Romans.

The only real grudge I have with Carthage is their crap missiles.

Craterus

04-09-2005, 12:19

You can use elephants as mounted missiles... ~D

tibilicus

04-22-2005, 22:12

Ok curently playing these guys and man there tuff. Your troops are better than anyone elses early ive found so get going quick. Scipii will go for Syracuse strait away on sicily so when they step out of there city take it. They will probably send another force but beat that of and you are ok. Syracuse will now be wekend by the greeks so go and take that for your final spot on Siciliy. Now, time for Italy. Build up a good Navy to fend of any chance of julii or scipii trying to take Calais or Carthage. feed Lybian Spearmen from Carthage a few Elephants and longsheild cavelry and ship them to Sicily. get a sicilian city to get you some misile troops or alternitivly hire some misile mercenries peltasts e.c.t. send this one big army to italy and start eating away at the brutii undefended cities. By know if youve built wisley Syracuse should be getting a good few units in its tech tree so ship some more lybian spearmen and some cavelry over to Italy. Not all the way through this campaign yet so will post if i get anyfurther. its going good so far though.
Hope this helps a few people.

Craterus

04-22-2005, 23:53

Sounds good, how are you doing in Corduba/Spain?? Good Luck! ~D

tibilicus

04-23-2005, 09:19

Not got going in spain and Corduba yet. Wont be to hard though to take out the Spanish. They have bad units. anyway im going to try and leave Gaul alone as there stopin the Juliis advance for me.

Craterus

04-23-2005, 12:07

Gaul will fall, Julii have too much money and support..

tibilicus

04-23-2005, 13:59

Oh heres another postfrom the seat of me. The year now is about 250 b.c and now Egypt are starting to power through. If Numidia are still bothering you take there two costal cities wich i have done and they wont hasel you any more. Spain is still very much neutral wich is good as i dont have the money to suport a big army there. Now the one every one whants to know about Italy. I have vertually vanquished the scipii would of taken there last city but the senates army (much better and skilled than mine crushed my advancing army sendind me back to the drawing bored. There seams to be a big Julii army on the way but there mainly Hastatii wich my Garison should easily defeat.. I will hopefully take the final scipii town with a small army as long as the senate go back to Rome. Will keep posting to update and give you some more tips. Also things are going to get nasty soon as i have spoted a woping big Egyptian army coming my way....... pour it on Egypt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Craterus

04-23-2005, 18:05

Egypt and Rome at the same time? You are an ambitious, daring kinda guy? Good Luck, I think you may need it.

tibilicus

04-23-2005, 18:13

I take it Egyptian armies tend to be big but not good for much under the A.I? lets just hope so. Carthage can now produce Poeni Infantry so that should silence the senates army once and for all. Alao going to get the final peice of north African coast of Numidia. Should finish them and also open up big trade links.

Craterus

04-23-2005, 18:18

I take it Egyptian armies tend to be big but not good for much under the A.I? lets just hope so.

Not quite, this is why many patrons hear hate the Egyptians. They have unlimited money and they field armies of invisible-armoured axemen, overpowered chariots and equally overpowered cavalry...

I wish you the best of luck; I think you will get sandwiched by Rome and Egypt though. You have to finish the Romans off before the Egyptians land in North Africa; that is you only hope.

tibilicus

04-23-2005, 20:13

Ok its update time. Year is now 235 b.c. Finaly taken the final scipii city and now the romans are siverly cripled. Also hacked into Numidia and they have one pathetic city left. Egypt nearly declared war because they said give us 193 denrii or sufer the consequences. its wasnt hard to chose 193 denrii or be attaked by Egypt. There army has now wondered of my teritory wich has bought a sigh of releif. Once again see no need to get going in Spain yet. Gaul and Spanish will be very easy work there. Will try and beat the tuff senate army to get rome and then the rest of the romans shouyld be done for. Also the julii stacks were rather easy to beat and so can anialte them as they come (as long as theres nothing to big). For some reson Macedon is doing surprisingly well has huge stacks of men beaten Thrace and now have become a threat. When war comes between them and brutii it might be close for once.

Craterus

04-23-2005, 20:26

I once had the Macedonians get going and thought the Brutii might have some competition here, but they were destroyed as usual. Don't put your hopes up, unless you destroy the Brutii, they will probably destroy Macedon..

DS_Legionary

04-24-2005, 03:50

Egypt is a pushover once you're able to build Poeni Infantry. The Chariots are useless against any Phalanx, and you're infantry beat all of theirs. The only thing to worry about is the Bowmen, but if you're cavalry heavy (you're playing Carthage so you should be) then Archers wont be much of a problem.

As for my game as Carthage I decided to take the road less traveled. Instead of blitzing Italy I focused on Spain, and North Africa first. I took over Sicily quickly, but put my invasion or the Italian Peninsula on hold. I turned my focus on Spain and North Africa. I took my starting stack in Spain and basically conquered the 5 territories with it, without too much resistance from Spain or Gaul. After taking Spain I just built forts till I was ready to invade Gallic territory.

Meanwhile, I took my modest army in Thapsus and Carthage and went on a North African crusade. I took all of Numidias territories except for the one by Egypt, I left that as a buffer, and I took Lepcis Magna and Cyrene shortly after taking Numidias four territories to the west.

During this time I built up on Siciliy readying for the eventual invasion of Italy. I kept the Romans at bay by using the power of the Carthaginian navy to keep the Scipii and Julii from landing, and I blockaded all their ports. Soon enough I had two full stacks of Libyan Spearmen and Long Shield Cavalry ready to invade. Both stacks had 8 units of Long Shield Cavs, 8 units of Libyan Infantry, a General, and 3 Skirmishers. I launched one stack to the southeast of Capua, and the other to the south of Croton. The Scipii were so broke they could only feild a half stack, and were defeated easily giving me Capua without much of a challenge. The Brutii were caught offgaurd and I took their two Italian cities with almost no resistance. I left a half stack of 4 Libyan Spears and 4 Long Shields to keep out any future Brutii invasions from Greece, and joined up my half stack with the full stack and prepared for the epic battle with the S.P.Q.R. They surprisingly didn't offer much of a challenge, they buckled under my Cavalry, and I took Rome without that many losses. The Julii were weakened from the battles with Gual, and I took them easily.

After this point the game was essentially a mop up operation, I was rolling in the dough, and I had three invasions points ready to launch. The defensive line in North Spain turned into a blitz into Gaul, Briton, and part of Germany. The Italian army (after it was reformed with newer units) blitzed eastwards towards Greece and finished the Brutii, Dacians, Macedonians, Greeks, and Thracians, and put a dent in the Pontic hold on Asia Minor. The last Numidian buffer territory was taken, and Egypt was blitzed, and the army marched northward to meet in Asia minor with the old Italian army carving the old Selucid Empire in half before reaching the 50 territories needed to win.

Craterus

04-24-2005, 10:38

Did you take Sidon last? The mother city of the Carthginians/Phoenecians..

tibilicus

04-24-2005, 12:31

Ok update time. Things are now really intense. Spain just back stabed me but i took Carthago Nova and now they jut have small armies left. Im about two turns away from finishing Numidia off. I decided to take this as i have started to run under. Anyway i have just smashed the first senate army (they have 3, 1 good one wich i just beat, 1 amazing one wich im up against next, and the final one in Rome wich is worthless. Julii have become really powerfull so will try and get them once ive finished spain off. Egypt are still neutral and the Selucids are still putting up one heck of a fight. Will try and team with Macedon to get Brutii once i have taken Italy (fingers crosed.) will try and make a big guide explaning tatics e.c.t once im done.

Craterus

04-24-2005, 12:33

Good on you, remember a good contribution to the site e.g. Guides are a way to get prompted to member. Good Luck with the campaign and the guide!

tibilicus

04-24-2005, 16:01

Ok Not much has hapend since my last post other than i own Rome and the Senate are dead! I can now get Poeni infantry in Italy so now it should be quite easy. There is still a strong Julii presence but they can soon be sorted out. The key to doing well as Carthage is taking Rome. Not only does this break up the other roman factions it also stops them getting any boneses from the Senate and also makes them more likely to go for Ceasfire. Egypt are still nutreal wich is good. Will kepp posting.

Craterus

04-24-2005, 17:01

Congratulations on Rome! Did you exterminate them? Or enslave them?

tibilicus

04-24-2005, 19:11

Enslaved them wanted a bit of people left to get up to Sacredband infantery.

Craterus

04-24-2005, 19:12

Sacred Band eh? Anyway, maybe you could post some screenshots of your campaign? They are always nice to see and I think it helps to illustrate the points you are making.

tibilicus

04-24-2005, 20:04

How do you put pictures in your posts. I know about print scree thanks to a certain some one. ~D

Craterus

04-24-2005, 20:14

Have RTW in disk drive, go to My Computer, go to Local Disk C: , then Program files, then Activision, then RTW and then go to the tgas folder. Your screenshots are saved in there.

tibilicus

04-25-2005, 16:24

Ok please can people avoid posting between this guide as im doing it in posts. or can Frogbeastegg restore it when it is compleate.
Tibilicus a basic guide to carthage.

Capter 1 City guide
Chapter 2 Economic guide
Chapter 3 conquest guide
Chapter 4 basic lineup and tatical guide
Chapter 5 diplomacy guide

Chapter 1

Ok you start off with 6 basic cities. Lets start with the most important:

Carthage

Ok this is by far your most important city not just for trade but for the fact that all your early strong Units (including navy) will come from here. Carthage starts off well developed and so puts you in a damanding position. The best purpose for this city in the early stages of the game is to suply your attaking armys with good leaders and good Generels. The Navy you build from here is also important to stoping attakin ships landing on your lands from Italy. Try and keep Carthage at all costs. I have found that loosing Carthage (even for a couple of turns) can ruin a whole campaign game. Carthage if managed rite can also power your economy. In other words this is basicly your life line, your win or loose city.

Corduba
Ok this city is another esential city for your campaign being on the European main land. From here you can spear head attaks on spain and so get round the Campaign map via a second route. Corduba too being on the Spanish coast also has great economical capabilities.It starts up very under developed so need a lot of atention. On the task of taking spain i waited till i got Iberian infantry and roundsheild cavalry and then combined it with some mercenary units.

lilbabem
Please excuse me if i have spelt the name wrong but you should know what i mean the city on Sicily it is. This is also esential very early on to suport the troops coming in from Carthage and Buildin light unit suport for them. You will notice your faction leader starts off here. Use him and your imported carthage troops to attak first the Scipii province and then the greek one. Lilybebem tends to not be of great importance other than to suply a few troops after you have landed on Italy and taken Sicily.

Thapsus
Sorry i have all of a suden forgoten this place name anyway its the one below Carthage your second African province. Other than to launce a later attak on Numidia this city has very limited uses. Take most of the army there and take Leptis Magna with it. This province however can build up a surprisingly good trade later on in the game.

Caralis
This province is quite an esential one being very close to italy and Europe. this will need protecting by a fleet early on in the game to prevent the Romans landing and taking the Province. Not only can this produce a good trade income it is also great later on in the game for suprting attaks on Europe (and Rome if you havent take it all ready). it also is a great place to get merecenary units.

Palma
Ok not really that usefull early on except for hiering Mercenery units. If built up however it can get a surprisingly good trade income. You wont really get any desent units here though untill very late in the game so dont wait on it for units.

Ok thats my basic city guide done. any coment would be much apreciated and also dont be to harsh as it is my first ever guide ive started. Hope it helps some of you.
Thank you for reading my first post
Tibilicus :bow: ~:cheers:
p.s remember this is only a basic guide so the whole thimg should not take up more than a page and a bit.
p.s sorry about this please excuse some spelling mistakes and also you are now aloud to post inbetween to express your veiws.

Chapter 2 Econmics

Early stage 270 b.c- 230 b.c
Carthages Econmic poetntial is incredible. Located in one of the best places for trading its only a matter of time before the money starts poring in. Carthage is esential to power your Econemy and so should be protected. Many of your provinces start of underdeveloped (Nearley all other than Carthage) and so dont expect money to just role in from the very begining. I would advise working on your econemy after major threats are over i.e Numidia and Rome. Once these are wekend or defeated you can start to concentrate on your money. Build up Carthage (this is the province wich will land you big bucks) and also the other fertile African costal cities (If you have beaten Numidia off them). Get trade rights with Egypt as they will provide good extra income so will the Greeks and Spanish. If posible also get trade rights with Gaul and Britton.

middle stage 230b.c-190 b.c

Now that threats such as Rome and Numidia are gone (maby Spain if you have been doing really well) Concentrate most of your efort on Econemy. Build up Carthage and Rome if you have it and also any other developed costal cities. At this point start trying to get trade going in Palma. Egypt should still be neutel with you at this stage so you should still be getting a good income off them. Focus not only on your port trade but also farming. Farming can get a surprisingly large sum off money if it is done in the right regions. Thry to get trade rights with factions you dont have as many of your old tradeing budies may have been eliminated by other Factions.

Late period 190 b.c-9 a.d

Ok by now Egypt would of probably declared war on you and so your money will be spent trying the fend them off. this is were all those Denrii put into developing farming and trade will pay off. Even in these hard times try to still develop your econemy further. poor provinces at the start i.e Palma should now be doing very well with trade and your faction should be dominating trade (even beating the egyptians if you have conqured a desent amount of land). The strain off war of course will afect your econemy but try to stop little things from hapening i.e ports being blockaded to ensure that econemy carrys on running smoothely through out.

general
In generel try to protect trade as noted above and make sure you know wich provinces can get the most out of each thing, in other words dont waste tim building farmland improvements in provinces wich could get more out of trade.

Once the guide is completed i will go over the chapters corect faults add a bit more were neede e.c.t
Hope you have found this usefulll so far.
Thanks for reading,
Tibilicus :bow: ~:cheers:

Chapter 3 conquest guide

As you will notice from the very start of the campaign you are attaked from all sides.
Factions posing a minor threat

Numidia- There armys come in small stacks wich can easily be beaten by a solid Garison. Easy land take for later on there lands are.

Spain- Your troops are fare supirior to theres and so should make easy work.

Big threats

Rome- will try and nail you right from the start start by nailing them in Sicily then get troops from Carthage to start nailing there Italian cities. Better to take them out sooner than later.

Egypt- Yes allways a threat. Try and finish Rome off with spare time to help the Selucids fight this nasty faction. Again better taking them sooner than later, espeshially when they can get Pharos bowmen.

Route of conquest

The best route is to ignore all other attaks and focus on Rome. There the only real threat. Start by geting troops from carthage to Sicily and take the Scipii province there. Also take the Greek one its an easy picking. Now take another army suplied from Carthage to Italy to take the undefended Brutii Provinces. (will explain unit line ups later on in the guide). Carry on using the newly conqured provinces and Carthage to blitz Rome. try and take the Senate army in 2 smaller armys as that is one tuff army. Eventually go on to take the rest of Italy. Now for Numidia. you only really need to take there costal cities to steall there wealth and then they wont cause you anymore trouble. Go back for the remaning provinces later on. By this time you should be quite rich and powerful. Spain will of also probably declared war on you. Take there cities (wich shouldnt be to hard as there units are inferior to yours) and take the whole of Spain. If Gaul is still there take enough provinces to link spain to Italy then try anf get a cesfire. folow the next step if you can get a ceasfire if you cant just finish the Gauls off. Now time for your hardest oponent Egypt. This will take a long time to beat thes. Just blockade there ports to limit wealth and hack away in to Delta and then those further provinces. Once you have sucsesfull beaten Egypt NOTHING will probably stand in your way so you can basicly Blitz the rest of the map.

Hope this section helped you will try and update soon
Tibilicus :bow: ~:cheers:]

Chapter 4 unit guide and tatical lineup.

Chapter 4 part 1

I am going to break this down in to 3 parts. lets sart with part 1:

Unit guide

As you will notice at the start many of your citys are under developed other than Carthage. As i have mentioned many times before Carthage is key to any early invashions on the Roman empire. The troops that Carthage get acses to at the very start are Lybian spearmen i have found thes key early on. Ship about 4 of these once built to Sicily.
Now lilybauem. Sorry i cant spell this but its the only city you start of with on Siciliy. Build 2 roundsheild Cavalry and 2 iberian infantry to suport the transported Carthage troops. Your faction leader should also be there with an army so combine the Carthage and lilbauem troops with him and take on the Scipii city. After this also take the greek city syracuse as its porley defended.
Repeat the shiping of Carthage troops to Rome suported by Sicily troops till the whole of Italy is yours. I would advise taking spain and the rest of Africa after this but noew the major threat is gone you can choose wich way to go. I would advise keeping an eye on Egypt other than that its really your choice.

Units early period 270b.c-230b.c

Carthage:
Infantry: Iberian infantry,liybian spearmen, Poeni infantry (poeni infantry depends on your speed of conquest normaly are availible by this time though)

Cavalry:round sheild cavalry, Long sheild Cavalry.

Misile troops/Skirmishers:Skirmishers,slingers.

Lilbaeum:

Infantry: Iberian infantry Lybian spearmen (lybian spearmen depends on speed of conquest)

Cavalry:Roundsheild Cavalry, Longsheild Cavalry.

Misile Units/Skirmishers: Skirmishers,Slingers

Caralis:

Infantry:Iberian Infantry,Lybian Spearmen depends on speed of conquest

Cavalry: Roundsheild Cavalry,Longsheild Cavalry
Misile Units/Skirmishers: Skirmishers,slingers.

Thapsus:

Infantry:Iberian infantry,lybian spearmen.

Cavalry:Roundsheild cavalry,long sheild cavalry.,

Misile units/Skirmishers: Skirmishers,slingers

Corduba:

Infantry:Iberian infantry,Lybian spearmen.

Cavalry:roundsheild cavalry,long sheild cavalry.

Misile unit/Skirmishers:Skirmishers,slingers.

Palma:

Infantry:iberian infantry.

Cavalry:Roundsheild Cavalry

Misile units/Skirmishers: Skirmishers.

Sorry all i have time for will try and update again soon coments much apresiated
Thankyou for reading
Tibilicus :bow: ~:cheers:

tibilicus

04-25-2005, 18:24

Ok people can now post your veiws so fgar as i can now edit the document. Aware of speling mistakes will sort them once it is finished.

Craterus

04-25-2005, 19:20

Looks good, I'll certainly use a few of those strategies for my first Carthaginian campaign..

tibilicus

04-25-2005, 20:46

Half way through my guide now people but bigest bits yet to come. For unit guide im doing details such as formation what your ARMYS SHOULD BE MADE UP OF E.C.T
So the post may be broken down in to 3 bits.

Craterus

04-25-2005, 20:59

Ok, sounds organised.. I like to experiment with formations so I'd like to see if we have the same sort of ideas..

tibilicus

04-26-2005, 17:31

Oh the irony i just saved over my amazing Carthage campaign with my Sythia one noooooooooooooooo!

Craterus

04-26-2005, 17:41

Uh-oh.. silly silly tibilicus ..

ywingpilot

04-26-2005, 18:28

I didn't find carthage so hard, just to build a good navy, small number of infantry but lots of calavry, The only thing I found hard with carthage was sieging because of a calavry based army.

Craterus

04-26-2005, 18:28

I prefer to wait sieges out anyway.. waste of men otherwise..

cunobelinus

04-27-2005, 10:23

yer but u need to assault some times wen u need the men some were else!! like we have found before craterus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bhruic

04-27-2005, 10:46

I didn't find carthage so hard, just to build a good navy, small number of infantry but lots of calavry, The only thing I found hard with carthage was sieging because of a calavry based army.

Sieging hard as Carthage? You must not be building elephants then. Drag a unit of elephants around, and they'll batter down anything less than stone walls (which aren't terribly common).

For stone walls, it's easy enough to just hire a merc unit to sap - pour your cav through a hole in the wall, and you can rout pretty much anything other than massed phalanx troops.

Although if you really want to, you can build the mobile siege equipment. I rarely bother, as they slow down the all-cav armies too much.

Bh

Craterus

04-27-2005, 16:19

yer but u need to assault some times wen u need the men some were else!! like we have found before craterus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hence, I said prefer, I would PREFER to wait sieges out but sometimes you have to assault and get your army somewhere else to fend off an attack.

Don't stone walls pour hot oil on elephants and that kills them?

katank

04-27-2005, 16:59

Sap my man. Stone walls are quite rare. BTW, elephants through stone gates is a bad idea. They are claustrophobic and often panic once inside the gates, even if the gate is destroyed.

For all wooden walls, ram em down with even basic eles and charge through. For stone walls, use some merc infantry or iberians (one thing the iberians can do other than rout is sap). Then, charge through the gap with eles followed by heavy cav then light cav.

You can clear a way to the square real fast with a flood of eles and cav following. Remember to always charge through the enemy unit.

tibilicus

04-27-2005, 21:54

Sorry about no update resently have been very busy will try to update soon.

The Apostate

05-12-2005, 16:07

Playing my first campaign as Carthage in 1.2 VH/VH and it is very challenging/ satisfying.

Have reached 187 BC and conquered most of Italy (there's only the Julii left), all of North Africa bar Egypt (I did hold Alexandria briefly but lost it to a combination of rioting citizens and endless full stack Egyptian armies) and have held on to Cordoba and am beginning the conquest of Spain.

However the game looks as if it will stay challenging for a while as there are big Scythian, Greek and Egyptian empires to deal with after the Julii and Spanish.

I would say key is building up your economy as soon as possible and relying on bribery and mercenaries rather than building up your own troops (who are all crap until you can afford Army Barracks, Royal Stables and Awesome Temples).

The Numidians and Spanish will generally ally at the start but attack you eventually - best way of dealing with them is to keep a big army in Cordoba - even if it's militia it will dissuade them from attacking for decades and diplomats to bribe them (while much more expensive than 1.1 bribery is still semi-feasible for same culture opponents).

The Numidians having allied still wanted to attack me but kept sending small captain-led armies which I would bribe over as soon as they crossed the frontier so the actual declaration of war didn't happen until the 250's or so.

Building two forts at the bridge west of Carthage and immediately north of it will also stop them besieging your capital although eventually they'll attack Thapsus.

The main campaign in Italy and Sicily requires every low trick of Punic cunning you can summon up.

I allied with the Greeks waited for the Scipii to besiege Syracuse and then stormed Messana. The Scipii then returned to be slaughtered under the walls of Messana and a couple of turns later the Greeks were silly enough to leave Syracuse ungarrisoned so I treacherously snatched it from them.

Taking the fight to the Italian Mainland was however much harder as except for your elephants (who seem much less effective in 1.2) your army is hugely outclassed unless you can ship over lots of mercenaries.

After several disastrous attempts to take Croton and Capua I found myself being attacked every couple of turns by little Roman armies that would land at Messana only to be slaughtered by my general there who rapidly built up so many command stars I lost count - and he survived the eruption of Etna.

Disagree with the big navy schol - you won't have the resources to fight the enemy fleets who will proliferate around your ports and most of mine were blockaded every other turn.

What you do need is two strong fleets (I am still using Biremes) to ferry mercenaries, elephants and family members around.

Biggest challenge was when the Egyptians besieged Lepcis Magna - which they always will eventually. The only troops that can face their archers and chariots are Sacred Band Hoplites who need to charge switching into phalanx just before contact - cavalry and even armoured elephants proved useless.

Taking the war to Egypt itself will at least keep them busy away from your heartlands but you can expect to lose several armies.

Other than Sacred Band and Elephants your only half-way decent unit are Poeni infantry which you can't even recruit until you have an Army Barracks. Libyphoenicians and Iberians should never be taken onto a battlefield.

The problem with Sacred Band is that you need an Awesome Temple of Baal to recruit them so they are a poor choice for conquering enemy territory as you won't be able to recruit them back up to strength in captured cities and wuill have to constantly ship in reinforcements - for this reason Poeni Infantry and Long Shield Cavalry are a better choice for expeditionary forces in the mid and later games as you're much more likely to capture buildings that can replace them.

I am currently experimenting with dropping the Elephants altogether as shipping the replacements from Africa is getting a pain and even the armoured ones are too vulnerable in 1.2 to be truly cost-effective.

pezhetairoi

05-13-2005, 01:28

Well, it's a good thing the elephants are vulnerable, what with everyone using them as god-mode weapons in 1.1... Egypt's arrows are nasty. Have you tried slingers against them? Do they work?

bubbanator

05-15-2005, 16:57

I have found Carthage to be quite possibly my favorite faction. I won't go into what to build and what settlements to take becuase that has already been answered about 400 times in this thread...

Anyways, get armored eles as soon as you can. Sacred band cavalry and infantry won't hurt either. Carthage is in need of some good units (and some great tactics) to stand against the Roman legions. I secured Carthage and Thapsus first, taking the settlements around them first so that the stupid numidians wouldn't drop a full stack on my capital. I soon built up an army of 8 iberian infantry, 2 ponei, 1 Sacred band infantry, 2 long sheild cavalry, and one armored elle group. I put them on a boat, sailed past sicily and landed right next to the city of Rome. I attacked the senate army outside. This had to be one of my favorite battles I have ever fought.

I knew i couldn't win just by charging the Roman lines. I set up my infantry like this:

-SB-P-P-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-

I had my eles and cavalry set behind and to the right of my Iberian infantry.

The Romans set up their army (mostly infantry) so that their princepes were lined up with my iberian infantry and their histati (sp) were lined up with my sacred band.

The battle began with the Romans marching straight towards my infantry line. The infantry began to fight. The princepes were slagutering my iberian infantry but my ponei and sacred band were beating the Roman Histati. I held my cavalry force where they were. The whold infantry line began to turn. My Iberian infantry being pushed back, the Romans being pushed back by my Sacred band and Ponei. Then I saw my opportunity. The line had been pushed so that my cavalry were alligned with the side of the Roman Pricepes on the left. I had my eles charge followed by my long sheilds. It was like something out of a movie. The Romans went flying as my eles pushed through the line. The Romans broke and routed. I chased down and killed every last one.

The heroic victory gave me easy access to the city of Rome. From there I continued to build up armies and systematicaly wipe out the other Romans. With the Romans totaly dead, I was free to move into Gaul, Spain, and Germany. I took the rest of Africa, allied with Egypt, took all of grece, all of Great Britian and won the game with the entire western 3/4 of the map under my control. It was a very intersting game without the Romans steamrolling everyone. The gauls and the britians took out most of germany which suprised me. In my game, I had no problem with money or family members. My family bred like rabbits and my treasury reached 7 million. It would have been higher but I was spending like crazy trying to keep my money level down. All in all, my Carthaginian game was very entertaining and interesting. Probably the most fun I have had in Rome Total War. It wasn't the hardest faction I have played with the Romans being gone, but it was very, very entertaining.

pezhetairoi

05-16-2005, 01:56

Not bad! It's rare that someone manages to rotate a line. That's very good planning... I assume you had intended to meet their principes with your iberians?

Craterus

05-16-2005, 19:41

Possibly, but remember
"To a good general, luck is important."

tibilicus

05-16-2005, 19:44

? (ohhhh one more post Craterus) Any way what are you talking about? lol

katank

05-16-2005, 23:47

bubbanator

05-17-2005, 00:05

Not bad! It's rare that someone manages to rotate a line. That's very good planning... I assume you had intended to meet their principes with your iberians?

Actualy, I had thought that the Senate ALL principes, I did plan on trying to rotate the line, but it did help that they had their principes matched with my iberians.

Craterus

05-17-2005, 21:07

It's very true. One may have command talent but sometimes a lucky break will ensure that things turn out exactly as you planned. After all, variables are many.

Sometimes the game CTDs and you need to refight a battle, it often turns out a little different.

BTW, I think it was a RTW quote or close to one anyhow.

Yeah, that qoute comes up from time to time when you start up the game. I can't remember who said it.

But my point was, that it was lucky that the Principes matched up against the Iberians, ensuring that your tactic could be executed in an easier manner.

pezhetairoi

05-18-2005, 01:00

That quote was Napoleon Bonaparte's. My idol... Good general at the beginning, crap general at the end.

Craterus

05-18-2005, 16:44

I don't think it was. They only have quotes from the time on there. I think it may have been Polybius?

pezhetairoi

05-20-2005, 01:31

Yeah, i realised... Saw it on a battle loading screen yesterday night, just can't recall who it was... Napoleon just rehashed this ancient quote, cos he said something like that too... Livy? Tacitus? they're also possible.

Craterus

05-20-2005, 15:51

I tried searching the qoute in Google, but it cuts out words "To a good general, luck is important" SO it came up with a lot of crap...

ywingpilot

05-22-2005, 04:18

As carthage is there a way to limit the number of enemies you fight. I an 50 years into the game (m/m) A have all of Italy, Sciliy. I am at war with Gaul, Spain, Bruti, Numida and my greek allies have back stabbed me. I tried early in the game to ally with both Gaul and Numdia but both refused. I am fed up of fighting. I mean Spain hasn't even sent out an army, just blockaded by ports for a short while. All my wars the AI started them. Is there anyway make the AI not always attack, would forts help? ~:handball:

katank

05-22-2005, 18:49

No point. War with the world is inevitable. The best way to end the wars and restore trade is by killing their faction.

I was at war with 7 factions about 2-3 years into my Carthy game. Then I cut it down to 3 quite fast by killing the Romans completely.

Forts would help block off land. However, there is always the sea. The AI will inevitably have a lone ship blockade your port. To not build any ports would be stupid and deprive yourself of much income.

pezhetairoi

05-24-2005, 04:21

I am fed up of fighting.

Er... at the risk of sounding sarcastic, which I certainly do not intend--why are you playing Rome Total *War* then? O_o

johndc

05-24-2005, 17:23

Dear carthaginian friends :),

I started my campaign in 1.0 version on VH / VH. After 18 years ( 252 BC ) I captured all Italy but Rome, Spain, Numibia except Siwa, Sicily, nearly all Gauls ( remain 2 provincies, one besieged ), Crete, Sparta, Larrisa ( Corint & Athens also besieged ) and Illyrian rebels provincies. The game was so easy that I attacked Macedons and Dacian because greek could not stay against me.

In my armies I use Balearic slingers, now in east - Rhodesian slingers and Cretan archers, a lot of cavalry - Round and Long shield, eles & war eles. I use infantry a very little - mostly mercs - and many of them are skirmishers, for example Illirian skirmishers.

I made a lot of problems to AI with load and save, because I don't have time to play long in a row. And I know that my eles are stronger than in 1.2 version, but still I think a 270 - 230 period isn't Early period. After 12 - 15 years you could build a strong empire. After 40 years you could have a full map :)

My path in start and early period :

First turns :
Sicily : I attacked Messana and move my ships and armies from Carthago to messana to invade southern italy.

Africa : I moved general from Carthago or Thapsus to Lepcis Magna , brought 2 mercs and captured rebel town in a 2nd turn. Next I move this army to Cyrene also rebel town - no much rich, because it's isolated but at least I save it from Numibians.

Spain : Army sent to Carthago Nova, captured and then attacked Osca.

Next turns :
Italy : I captured Capua first and then moved army against Tarrentum and Croton. Brutii send their army to east so it was easy work - eles destroyed gates and towns was ours in one turn.

Sicily : Greeks attacks me, but armies from africa & merc save me. Syracuse and all Sicily was mine.

Africa : Peace with Numibians. No advancement. 4 provincies.

Spain : Big spanish army moved against Corduba, but luckily stopped with my returning army. Then I captured Austurica and Scallabis. In turn when I finished spanish, gauls attacks me. In next turns I captured Numantia and move another army to Narbo Martius.

Final stage :
Italy : Move against Julii - sneak around SPQR army and capture their 2 towns. Begin war with gauls in italy too. Captured Segesta & 2 gaul provincies.

Sardinia : AI bug - small Julii army landed near town, but they didn't attack. I smashed them later with army from carthago.

Africa : War with Numibia. I prepared 2 armies and captured Cirta and Dimidi in 2 turns.

Illyria : small army moved by ship to capture Salona and later Apollinia. Near Apollinia was ex-Brutii army - like rebels.

Spain : A few battles with gaul armies, which went to Numantia and ignored my Narbo Martius.

Economy
Best advice : Build and upgrade ports ASAP. Then roads and then what do you want :) Don't exterminate or enslave captured towns, when you can hold a public order. Your towns will grow fast and you could use benefits from it - next town level enables new buildings to reduce cultural difference, better units to recruit and more money from trade.

And that's all. It could be up to 15 years. This is my start & early period. With so many towns, there is no problem to advance in all directions. Maybe a strong and developed Egyptians or Seleucids will stop me, but I don't think so.

I really wait to play RTR 6.0 with a new ZoR+ because it's unreal to build nearly full West-Roman empire in 18 years.

tibilicus

05-24-2005, 17:30

Soory i hvnt been able to do my guide resently its just past my mined. Would anyone whos done a Carthage campaign care to help me? I can do the Line up of troops guide its just a diplomacy guide i will need. Hope someone can help.

katank

05-24-2005, 22:03

tibilicus, what do you mean by line up of troops guide and diplomacy guide? I can certainly help though.

tibilicus

05-24-2005, 22:10

By line up of troops i mean what formations work best e.c.t would you be willing to help KATANK? I would even add your name at the top. ~:)

RollingWave

05-25-2005, 08:58

For vinilla RTW carthage troops basically..

Have at least 1 group of elephant with ur attacking army.
infantry: if u don't have a choice... bring some iberians. they aren't too bad as long as you don't send them in first. later on Poeni and Sacred band are as good as any other phalanx out there.

Cavlary: bring many and whatever you can build. round shields aren't that hot but with speed and number you can acomplish many things. long shields are one of the more price effective cavlary around early game... sacred band are a bit underwhelming for how much it takes to get.. but not bad... and of course.. u have ur elephants.

ranged: unfortunately carthage utterly suck in this department... early on bring some skrimishers later just build nothing but onager.

A good general work with whatever he gets though, of course you could set goals for ur favorit army but you should always be prepared to work without it.

Craterus

05-25-2005, 18:10

For range, try get some Balaeric slingers, in Spain. If you have a go for Crete, you could get Cretans too.

katank

05-25-2005, 22:45

For line up.

Early

Your infantry line is primarily Iberians and even town watch. Don't expect them to last long. Must flank quickly with your cav to save your caving line.

Cav is round shields which stink but are decent when operating in groups of 3+. Definitely throw in your general. The starting unit of elephants are nice as a mobile ram. Also follow up an ele charge quickly with cav can exploit formation disruption etc. and cause instarout. Be careful with that starting ele unit on higher difficulty levels as it's the key to your blitz and not so easily replaceable.

Missiles is skirmishers. Put them on stand ground right behind your lines for them to fire into the melee. Charge them in as a reserve or use them for flanking when ammo is depleted.

Mid and Late will follow soon.

pezhetairoi

05-26-2005, 01:37

The infantry'll hold just fine if you keep your general behind them, as I've found through a custom battle. If the flanks cave, all the better since moving infantry are even more susceptible to cavalry charges. Of course, round shields must get very busy for this gamble to work.

DS_Legionary

05-26-2005, 02:52

For Carthage I find that in the early game you will pribably be realying on Cavalry to save you. Have maybe three or four units of town watch/iberians, and set up a weak front line. Have at least 2 units of Cav, 6-8 is better, but I have won many a battle with only two cav units when nothing else is available. Early the regular elephants aren't all that great, but if you can crowd up the enemy they are great crowd control/instant routing, so they really aren't a neccessity, but are nice if you can come across them. Just let the enemy attack the front line and them ram him from the rear with your cav, and the battle will probably be over right then and there. After that point the enemy infantry usually routs, and you can chase fleeing units and/or enemy Generals.

pezhetairoi

05-26-2005, 08:00

But always remember, elephants are not first-line troops. They should be used as a masse de rupture, to borrow Napoleon's phrase. They are the hammer that breaks the already heavily loaded enemy back. Winning a battle with only two cav units... surely you don't mean round shields? I've already modded their charge bonus up 3 points and they still look pretty pathetic, to me.

Mikeus Caesar

05-26-2005, 18:21

I find that Elephants can be good if used correctly. You can either distract the enemy with your army, and smash your Elephants into the rear (really good) or you can use the War Elephants or Armoured Elephants as mobile missile platforms. Just keep them at the rear of your fighting troops, and it really makes up for Carthage's lack of missile troops.

Holymoses

05-26-2005, 18:38

I´d say Carthage´s one of the easiest factions I´ve played. Settings on med/med I´m now at a point where it´s not even amusing to play as I don´t have any natural enemies. It went like this:

I just started massproducing fleets. Having the advantage of starting off with a few ships, I figured this would be a sound strategy - just doing what you´re best at. And it proved to be.

Building fleets lets you blockade ports, which in turn drives your enemies to the edge of bankrupcy. So from turn 1 or 2 I went to the closest roman port and sealded it off. Then the next and third one and so on. Blockading Julii isn´t hard at all because you can easily have 6 ships before they have any port. Right - I lost a few triremes as there was some resistance further on from Scipii and Brutii, but with backup from my many ports I could easily overcome theese losses. Once controlling the high seas, neither the greeks nor any of the roman families have ever posed any greater threat to me. They did however waste about 40 turns trying to rebuild their naval power before the AI sensed it was just futile.

Right. With the romans just waiting for my invading force, I could turn my attention westward. The numidians were off course beaten since long. Now breaking an early alliance with Spain (got it through by offering to fight off the gauls), the iberian peninsula was under my control in a couple of years. Then waited the lands along the Nile an its wonders. Egyptian chariots proved to be good combatants but still not too much of a problem for my new armoured elephants. Only one mistake - I left my work with pharao without the ultimate punish to his people, and that gave me some headache later on as they gathered a force to re-take Alexandria. Still - my power was now so great that my armies solely consisted of armoured elephants, sacred band, some archers and heavy onagers.

Remarkable is also that this roman guy who´s supposed to boost up the roman military still hasn´t emerged. The romans are still using Hastatii, Principes and Auxillary cavalry! Probably this event doesn´t come if their kingdom doesn´t evolve (?).

Under theese conditions the roman homelands was quickly smacked down and the population exterminated. Rome itself did however take two turns to conquer because even for an army of elephants such a vast city can be something of a challange - and the senate do have the Triari.

Now I just need 14 more provinces. That is Gaul and and a small piece of Germania. But as said above I don´t have any natural enemies along any more so due to the lack of amusement I don´t think I´ll finish it up. At least not for now..

pezhetairoi

05-27-2005, 06:55

Well, you pretty much starved the Romans out, so it's not likely they have enough money or population to build imperial palaces, since they're frantically building troops to await your invasion and bankrupting themselves in upkeep... good one man! I've never used blockades that well before.

The Stranger

05-27-2005, 17:14

blockades are pretty bugged (atleast in 1.2) the ships can just leave the blocked port without fighting.

DS_Legionary

05-28-2005, 00:27

Winning a battle with only two cav units... surely you don't mean round shields? I've already modded their charge bonus up 3 points and they still look pretty pathetic, to me.

That's right only two units of Round Sheilds have won many a battle for me. The trick is to take the defensive, let the enemy tire himself coming to you. As soon as the enemy hits the frontline have your Round Sheilds hit them in the back, and it's over. The enemy is usually tired and when they hit your frontline they are usually demoralized, so they are prime for routing, and usually rout soon as the Cavalry hit the back. (This is the stretegy I used against Rome, as they almost never have any cavalry).

Craterus

05-28-2005, 01:15

Thanks, you've just given me another simple strategy against the Romans. Deploy as far back as possible and let them tire as they come to me. So Simple. ~D

Thanks.

DS_Legionary

05-28-2005, 03:48

Yes, it's a great strategy, but if you have a way bigger army, they won't come to you. It's great against all other factions as well, but best against Infantry heavy factions, like Rome and Greece.

Craterus

05-28-2005, 13:18

Well, when I first went up against Romans, I let them come to me but because the distance was so short they weren't worn out and they broke through my lines. I won the battle, but with many casualties.

katank

05-28-2005, 16:31

One of my best battles was as the Gauls against the Julii. They had a far superior army. (4:1 strength ratio) However, I deployed very far back and hid two units of barb cav in forests.

Good timing managed to tangle the entire Roman line for an instant while my cav smashed their rear.

@DS_Legionary, how do you have a frontline if you only have two roundshields? Or do you mean your entire cav force consists of two round shields?

beating an actual army with only 2 round shields is nigh impossible while with only 2 roundshields as a cav forces, it's doable.

DS_Legionary

05-29-2005, 18:38

My cav force usually consists of only two Round Shields early on, I try to have some Town Watch or Iberian Infantry to hold a weak front line to give me cav time to hit the back of the Roman scum. I usually don't have more then 3 or 4 units of them, as they never do anything except stand there and take casualties, while my cav do all the work.

katank

05-29-2005, 18:49

That sound much like my early carthie armies. Too bad a hastati unit can beat an iberian inf and a roundshield even when sandwiched.

Marquis of Roland

06-07-2005, 03:34

Yes, I just started a Carthage campaign and Iberians aren't not impressing me right now....I sandwiched a Gaul swordsmen warband three-way (no generals) and I STILL lost....now that was pathetic. They broke through my center rusher and my flanking Iberians ran too....pathetic.

I miss the ubiqitous hastati, hahaha.

Libyan spearmen in early campaign is quite good, but not as good as principes. They form the backbone of my armies, with Iberians on the flanks.

I agree that round shield cav is useful in numbers. I use 3+1 general as my standard cav for my early field armies. Long shield not bad as well. One complaint about round shields: they don't know what a charge is. They run full speed at the enemy rear and then trot out the last couple yards, and hit the enemy at walking speed.

Vanilla elephants are way too susceptible to "run amok". Too many Romans with javelins. Had to put them to the chisel two or three times. War elephants FAR better.

I made the big mistake of not building a naval power early in the game. Now I'm screwed, there are full flag Roman (all 4 factions), Spanish, Gallic, numidian, and Greek navies roaming around my trade routes. Holding Caralis from hordes of Julii at this time is hard (just a couple Iberians facing about 6-8 hastati plus support troops every year).

Just built my first sacred band, so I guess I'm in mid-game now. These are my early observations.

Garvanko

06-07-2005, 16:27

Carthage is very difficult, even though they have a lot of money. Too close to Rome, and too many enemies too early.

katank

06-07-2005, 18:01

The Carthaginian blitz is probably the easiest way out of the hole. This makes it overpowered though as you have the combined wealth of Italy, Carthage, and Sicily very quickly.

Otherwise, it is difficult to stay in control due to weakness of early units.

Libyans are actually roughly equal to hastati in pure melee.

DS_Legionary

06-08-2005, 03:43

I have done the blitz with Carthage, and while fun it made taking over the rest of the world too easy. Instead I took Sicily and then consolidated in that area, and built up some economy there. After taking care of Siciliy I launched simultaneous invasions of North Africa and Spain. This made the later game more fun, as the Romans were much stronger (except Scipii), and gave me some of the greatest battles I've ever had.

katank

06-09-2005, 22:42

If you'd like to do the extreme, you can even gift cities to Rome.

I've even tried a Carthaginian game in which I gifted Carthage to the Romans and changed my base of operations to Spain.

Atreides

06-26-2005, 22:36

If you'd like to do the extreme, you can even gift cities to Rome.

I've even tried a Carthaginian game in which I gifted Carthage to the Romans and changed my base of operations to Spain.

That IS sich!

Anyway. After reading a lot of your post I have the impression you mastered this game! ~:cheers:

pezhetairoi

06-28-2005, 05:34

Carthage is tough. Like Spain, the best way to survive Julii full stacks is to go for the Julii jugular first thing. Otherwise Caralis is not worth holding. Me, I prefer surrendering Caralis to the Julii while I consolidate in Sicily and make alliance with the Gauls. Not that I've played Carthage, of course, I'm still a relative newbie in terms of campaign experience, but my style is to surrender ground I can't hold in exchange for a firmer grip on the ones I have.

Carthage had a strong Spanish empire in history. You can duplicate that, as katank did. Spain is infinitely more defensible than the scattered Carthaginian empire. Although, arguably, if you manage to survive the multiple threats like I did with the equally scattered Greek empire, then it's a breeze with three-four campaigns raging at ones. A blitz.

And bribe! bribe! Carthage was made for money, so bribe!

Franconicus

06-28-2005, 06:50

That IS sich!

Anyway. After reading a lot of your post I have the impression you mastered this game! ~:cheers:
Yes! While we have to fight according the rules, katank defines them :bow:

pezhetairoi

06-29-2005, 00:58

But always remember, rules are meant to be broken :-)

Franc! Haven't seen you around these parts for quite some time, or have you been hiding in ambush?

Franconicus

06-29-2005, 09:27

But always remember, rules are meant to be broken :-)

Franc! Haven't seen you around these parts for quite some time, or have you been hiding in ambush?
I am always here. :hide:
But it looks like there is not much going on these days. I tried it with my Brit campaign but failed. Seems like everyone is waiting for the expansion. :rifle:

pezhetairoi

06-30-2005, 04:46

...or simply waiting for EB. look at all the threads about why no one wants to buy the expansion ;-)

Franconicus

06-30-2005, 06:44

I bet everybody will ~:cool:

Viking

07-01-2005, 11:14

My poll (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=49196) showed that most people are going to buy BI ~:cool:

Ach, sorry about that campaign Franc :stars:

IliaDN

07-01-2005, 11:23

Franconicus

07-01-2005, 12:45

My poll (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=49196) showed that most people are going to buy BI ~:cool:

Ach, sorry about that campaign Franc :stars:
You are still welcome ~:cool:

Marquis of Roland

07-01-2005, 16:33

Play this faction before you play the Seleucids, otherwise Carthage will be boring after you establish sicily and spain, because this faction's unit roster is like that of Seleucids but not nearly as fun to play with.

pezhetairoi

07-05-2005, 01:37

Well, Carthage and Seleucia are identical in situation, but Carthage is mildly easier than Seleucia by virtue of less factions ganging up on you at once. Main differentiation is in the culture differences and the naval component, I guess. That's about it, though.

Norxis

07-21-2005, 07:21

I agree, even though you do get ganged up on in carthage as well, that starting elephant makes kicking the scipii off sicily quite easy, then as long as you have a decent navy (which as everyone else says here, you need to for carthage), you're laughing - no one is getting back onto sicily. The selucids have to deal with egypt right away, and although that is done easily, those pesky parthians, armenians and pontiacs (or whatever the people from pontus are called), just won't leave you alone!

pezhetairoi

07-21-2005, 08:30

...i believe they are pontics.

Skott

07-22-2005, 01:19

Pontiac was a name of a famous American indian chief, brand of car, and a name of a Midwest town I think. ~;)

Seamus Fermanagh

07-22-2005, 01:44

Pontiac is a town in Michigan, if I recall correctly.

The Indian leader Pontiac was the biggest threat to US expansion during the early years of the republic. Wayne beat him at Fallen Timbers.

The Pontiac line of cars may well be on the way out.

Carthage can do some interesting things with elephants and fleet mobility...its one of the few med powers that can launch an invasion of Rome via Britain while still holding a med power base -- though that kind of strategic end run might be tough in a multiplayer strategic game.

pezhetairoi

07-22-2005, 01:53

...huh? invasion of Rome via Britain... how does this have anything to do with Asia Minor? The strategic confusion overwhelms me, I'm afraid. This is way too roundabout a route to me to have any valur whatsoever.

Seamus, your knowledge never ceases to astound me. Nothing like you to remind me that I'm not the smartest person around, though sometimes I like to think that, egotistical bastard that I am :) I still remember Idistavico...or was it Idistavino? Idintavisto? Aaah whatever. I remember it.

stabularasa

07-22-2005, 11:42

Hello all, this site is incredible, I wish that I'd found it sooner.

The second campaign I ever played was Carthage on m/m. It was a complete doddle, I don't know if I was just lucky, but my starting faction leader guy lived to the age of 112, and had a string of good traits. He was without a doubt the best character that I've ever had in any rtw game. He died peacefully while laying siege to Rome.

The campaign all in all was great, sacred band cavalry are devastating, and I had one or two memorable moments.

What secured the whole of Italy for me was landing two full stacks including elephants right between the Julii capital and Rome, I was attacked about 6 times in the space of 4 turns and wiped out most of the SPQR and Julii army by simply defending my spot in the middle of nowhere. Then I laid siege and progressively squashed the lot of them.

I didn't make one single alliance throughout the game and was pretty much at war with every faction that I met. Maybe m/m is too easy with Carthage.

pezhetairoi

07-25-2005, 03:25

Lol...the way your faction leader died amuses me for some reason. Sacred cav rock, oh yeah... Did you take the Gaul route, the Italy route, or the Eggy route?

bubbanator

07-25-2005, 16:23

Personaly, I like the big naval invasion of Italy the best. Landing 2 big armies to take Rome and Capua. The Scipii and SPQR will be gone. Work your way down and kick the Brutii out of Italy, rebuild, and take out the Julii. With Carthage, you can take out the Romans so quickly.

Taking the rest of Africa is unimportant. It is so poor and the distances between settlements is a real pain. I take it eventualy though just for the settlement count. After I take Italy, I start working my way north and and spreading out into barbarian land. I invade Spain from the north and with my army in the South. While this is happening, I usually an army or 2 land at Sparta and work my way up in Greece. Once you take a few cities their, you have enough of a power base to go wherever you want. You can go north and hook up with your lands in Italy, or you can invade Turkey. I did both but Turkey was less important to me.

They main thing with Carthage (at least in my stratagy) is to take key regions like Italy and Southern Greece, and fan out in all directions. Once you take out the Romans and Macedon, the hard part is over. Your Sacred bands just steamroll over the stupid barbarians. Of course, you could go and fight egypt, but I prefer to let them rot in the corner.

Deus ret.

07-25-2005, 20:14

Of course, you could go and fight egypt, but I prefer to let them rot in the corner.

Which they will absolutely. That is, with the SE as their victim, so don't be surprised when they come to visit your settlements in Asia Minor...
anyway, as far as Africa is concerned, the Eggies only ever turn their attention westwards IMHO when you play Numidia. Thus, Egypt is in effect a fine blocker on your Eastern flank.

pezhetairoi

07-26-2005, 01:32

however, Egypt in most of campaigns moves gradually Siwa-Cyrene-Lepcis Magna-Thapsus. They will eventually reach you if you leave them to rot.

stabularasa

07-26-2005, 14:34

Lol...the way your faction leader died amuses me for some reason. Sacred cav rock, oh yeah... Did you take the Gaul route, the Italy route, or the Eggy route?

After I had Numidia I started on Spain, then while I was working my way toward Osca I surprised the Romans with some heavy stacks in central Italy, then I took that central army and progressed towards the east, and with the army in Spain I pushed north / north east, feeding both of them with fresh infantry from Carthage and cavalry from Sicily. Gaul was a walkover.

As far as overall gameplan / strategy is concerned... I don't think it really plays much of a factor in an m/m game with Carthage, you simply kill everyone in your way. Will probably revisit it again sometime on a harder difficulty level.

bubbanator

07-28-2005, 15:29

however, Egypt in most of campaigns moves gradually Siwa-Cyrene-Lepcis Magna-Thapsus. They will eventually reach you if you leave them to rot.

Ya, I ususaly just set a feild army around Swia to ward off any attacks. But more importantly than that I set a diplomat along my boarder to defeat their army. One thing that I don't want with the egyptians is a war. Their navy could blockade half of my ports (and sea trade is very important for Carthage) and Swia can't really produce the troops you need to take the offensive. I try to ally with them and I bribe them only to avoid a war that I don't want. I am usualy more focused on my campaigns in Western Europe and Greece by that time. It is impracticle to raise an army to defeat the egyptians when you could just let them rot.

Though it is nice to have Memphis, Alexandria, and Thebes...

Deus ret.

07-28-2005, 16:32

well as far as I can tell the Eggy leaves you alone if you don't touch Siwa. leave it to the Numidians and ally with Egypt, this was what I meant with a flank guard....don't ally with your neighbour (they aren't prone to do so anyway), ally with your neighbour's neighbour. ~D

another possibility is to conquer the Nile valley plus maybe Petra...and you won't have much trouble defending yourself there.

Skott

07-29-2005, 01:12

Once you have taken Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes its pretty much over for the Egyptians. Best way is to just drop in three invading armies by sea while friendly with the Egyptians and take those three cities when they aint looking and its just a matter of mopping up the remaining towns at your leisure.

Seamus Fermanagh

07-31-2005, 22:11

Sorry, missed this one for a bit.

...huh? invasion of Rome via Britain... how does this have anything to do with Asia Minor? The strategic confusion overwhelms me, I'm afraid. This is way too roundabout a route to me to have any valur whatsoever.

***With Asia Minor, not a thing. My point was that Carthage, with its plentiful fleets, can actually strike from or to almost anywhere. Turn Sicily into a sausage grinder, consolidate Africa behind you. Build Carthage into a bastion. Then you can fleet your armys -- with "panzer"-derms -- to almost anywhere. Asia Minor, the Crimea, or even (as noted) Britain. Carthage is mobile enough - strategically - to avoid a frontal assault on anybody.

Seamus, your knowledge never ceases to astound me. Nothing like you to remind me that I'm not the smartest person around, though sometimes I like to think that, egotistical bastard that I am :) I still remember Idistavico...or was it Idistavino? Idintavisto? Aaah whatever. I remember it.

***Idistaviso, I think. I have no doubt that you can name almost all of Rome's greatest malf-ups. ~:) As a side note, I find Carthage interesting as a faction. Virtually all of the Western factions, Barb and otherwise, are infantry factions. Carthage was of Phoenician stock, yet they never adopted the infantry as their key tool. Carthage always fielded more infantry than anything else, but the cavalry was key -- more akin to Macedon or Persia.

pezhetairoi

08-01-2005, 04:18

Aye, true. I just went a-reading through Adrian Goldsworthy (or Goldsworth) and his monolithic work on the Punic wars. Amazing how much I've forgotten about the First Punic War.

But yeah, I take your point on fleet mobility...

Slicendice

08-01-2005, 14:50

IMHO Carthage is one of the easiest factions to play. You can make an alliance with Spain, Gaul, and Numidia and these alliances will hold for a time if you do one very important thing. . . kick the crap out of Rome.

The army on the Island of Sicily, without any additions is powerful enough to take out all of Rome except for the City of Rome itself. In fact with that army you can conquer every sea-port city on the map!

Carthage has a built in Blitzkrieg in their elephants. They can move quickly from a ship up to the city and batter down the walls and seize the city before the enemy can bring up troops to reinforce it. You will enjoy a rapid population boom in any of your cities with generals by doing this.

In the first turn I load up on my ships and I move to attack the Scipii mainland city. Once I have that city I write a letter to my mother several times and give it away. I then move back to Sicily and take that Scipii city and Voila the Scipii are destroyed in about 6 turns. Now you need only lay siege to Syracuse and wait for them to sally and crush them and kill the general and the city is yours. Probably 2 turns for that.

By now you should have plenty of cash and population in Carthage to build lots of units. I like to go to Kydonia and take that city for fun and then to Rhodes for the wonder. Plus keeping a general on these islands means I can recruit Cretan Archers which make life sooooo much easier for Carthage.

Now I can move my first little army around Italy and destroy each of the factions one by one. If the brutii have not moved across to Greece you can destroy them in 1 turn. I like to keep those cities and keep a general in them. Make sure you put a spy and a diplomat with your general so the Senate doesn't bribe him. Any general you put in there will get great loyalty ancillaries from the Romans trying to bribe him.

Now move you ships to Segesta and take that Julii city and then to the rest. Make sure you retreat to your ships and don't move overland because you will be vulnerable to attack. Yes you can beat the enemy but taking losses means you can't blitzkrieg because you have to replenish your troops.

Meanwhile you should be rolling in dough and population. Carthage can produce more elephants and you can duplicate your blitzkrieg army using Balearic Slingers that you have hired. It's important to use these guys instead of your own crummy slingers. Your slingers have poor range and cannot shoot well over walls. Cretans of course are the very best. Damn they're sexxy!

Numida has 2 coastal cities that are easily taken. Then move quickly to the inland city and they are wiped out in the west except for remnant armies which will probably move east to their last city but if not you can bribe them or kill them at your leisure. Move a ship east with an army and a diplomat and take the last city.

Spain is all coastal cities and can be taken rapidly and held easily. By the time they seige the cities you have taken you will have taken the others and they will be trying to move to intercept you but they can't because you are using ships.

Carthage can conquer every trade port city in the world with elephants, merc hoplite or their own phalanx, some merc archers or merc slingers, and a general.

Skott

08-01-2005, 17:10

Numidia either will or wont ally with you. Its not a given they will. And when they do it only lasts for so long before they inevitabally attack you since you are so close to them. Generally I'll take them out first just to get them out of the way and secure my backside.

Spain is somewhat the same way but their alliances will hold much longer. Also through my experience once the alliance is broken its pretty much broken forever. After that the best I usually get is a neutral ceasefire. Spain doesnt seem to be very forgiving towards a second alliance.

Egypt can be a powerhouse as well if they decide they want your lands. Often they dont do much other than hang around your border but if Selucids are dealt with already Egypt tends to come right for the throat. Also the game AI seems to think once you get to big with whatever faction you are playing it tends to start throwing other factions at you. Just my opinion on that.

In the original RTW ideally its always best to take out Rome as quickly as possible no matter the faction you choose because they are expansionists in the truest sense and become a powerhouse the longer you wait. But if Egypt, Numidia, and Spain all decide to fight you early on its a long hard fight before you can effectively deal with Rome.

I have found that with RTR 5.4.1 playing Carthage is more enjoyable. Rome takes longer to become a powerhouse so you have more time to deal with Numidia, Spain, and even Egypt if they encroach on you. Also Carthage starts off in a better situation than in the original game.

Deus ret.

08-01-2005, 17:29

Not bad, Slicendice. Basically a reproduction of katank's Carthagian Blitz strategy but nonetheless worthwhile.

IMHO this approach takes most of the fun out of the game as your main opponents will be beaten by around turn 20. Thus, from there on it's basically a simple run for the 50th province (if you steer clear of Egypt) which will end this unspectacular campaign. It's more entertaining to conquer Sicily plus maybe South Italy and ward off further Roman attacks....but alas, why make things more difficult than they need to be? Smash them. It's the best you can do.

Deus ret.

08-01-2005, 17:39

Also the game AI seems to think once you get to big with whatever faction you are playing it tends to start throwing other factions at you.

Got it! :thumbsup: If you expand too fast (or play as the Greeks), no one will ever like you....
Not very realistic (who wants to be the target of a surging empire?), but at least reasonable in terms of game design: If all the world would cave in before you when you become mighty, what reason would there be to play beyond the, say, 30th province?

pezhetairoi

08-02-2005, 01:20

...not much. As Greeks by the time I reached turn 30 and 40 provinces I saw no point in playing on because there was simply no answer that any faction could offer to my armoured hoplites or greek cavalry. Strange but true. Carthage has the potential to become very boring because if you follow the katank strategy Carthage will be producing Sacred Bands before long, and after that the game gets rather unfun.

bubbanator

08-02-2005, 01:58

Yes, there is the potential for the game with Carthage to be very boring because of all of the 'weak' enemies that you fight after the Romans are dead. Crushing the spanish and gaulish armies don't make for the most epic of battles. I enjoy going out and fighting the best that the enemy can offer. I will often times go 'hunting' with a young family member. I will give him a few good troops and have him hire mercs along the way. I use him to hunt out and destroy full stack armies and pilliage settlements along the way. It is very fun and gets you a very good general.

BTW, this is my first post on my brand new computer with a 19inch widescreen gaming monitor, 200gb harddrive, 1024 ram, and an ATI/Radeon Xpress 200 graphics card. It is a very nice computer but I might just get another video card.

also, this is my 100th post :balloon3: ~:cheers: :balloon:

Skott

08-02-2005, 04:32

Skott

08-10-2005, 01:04

I played the Carthage faction in RTR 5.4.1 and I gotta say it was much more enjoyable than in RTW 1.0. The Numidians put up a better fight and so do the Iberians (Spanish). Rome doesnt bother you from the start like in the original game because they only have two towns in Italy at the start. The Greeks however do cause trouble early on because they have a stronger starting position than in 1.0. They have two towns in Sicily and two towns in Southern Italy and they have an elephant unit at the start!

I found it challenging but not so bad it was boring. The mod team made a good balance I think. I hear in RTR 6.0 the Carthaginians are even more fun to play. Havent tried that mod yet. Still playing RTR 5.4.1

Deus ret.

08-10-2005, 23:36

Well, I'm using 6.0. Currently playing with Carthage and I'm totally convinced. I don't know 5.4.1, but compared to vanilla rtw, it's a lot more fun to play. You start out with 14 provinces...the Romans are confined to middle Italy with Pyrrhus knocking at their door, of Sicily's four cities two are independent and the Numidians...well, they just have two poor provinces in the desert but that didn't prevent me from smashing them first. Still not quite sure though whether the effort was worth the outcome.
As for the Iberians, they put up one HELL of a fight and I am strugglling for my last vestage in Spain.
Overall, you position is much more versatile as before. You actually can choose what to do next and are not left with the alternatives of either an endless war with the Romans (if you contend yourself with Sicily) or a boring middle and end game because of a quick sweep of the same Romans (katank's blitz).

bubbanator

08-11-2005, 02:33

I usualy use the blitz stratagy, but I did do an isolisationist campaign once. It turns out that you don't have to stay at war with the Romans. Just take Sicily and then send a diplomat to Italy. Don't bother talking with the Scipii as they will just spit on you. Instead go to any of the other factions. Get a cease fire from them and the Scipii will be forced to call off their attacks. In the future, they may send an army to reignite war but if you can get an alliance with the Senate, then you should be set for quite a long time.

Alternitively, you can take Sicily and then just take Capua, give it to the Senate and then try to get a ceasefire with the senate. Then the Scipii won't bother you again.*

*I have never tried this option, however it seems like it would be effective, but it would be almost a necesity to get a ceasefire with the Senate.

Skott

08-11-2005, 03:22

ss_killer

08-28-2005, 21:45

bubbanator

08-28-2005, 22:52

I am currently playing the campaign on hard/hard. It was quite hard no one wanted to ally with me and at one point i was at war with Macedon,Greeks,and Bruti they allied after I took the two Bruti cities. In the desert against Numidia and I was constantly holding Juli invasions in Capua. :furious3: And if you think that was all I was fighting Gaul and Spain too at the same time. It was me against the world if Egypt had atacked me I would have lost everything. ~D I Destroyed The Senate and Numidia first. And in Spain I need to destroy one more settlement to pwn Spain. After that I will destroy Gaul.Right now Macedon and Egypt are the biggest threats now but I will beat them.

I say just screw egypt and let them rot in the desert. They won't go past Swia normaly. You can just put a 'boarder patrol' army around Swia consisting of mainly cavalry and that should stop any egyptian incursion. But more importantly, put a diplomat near Swia to bribe away and Egyptian armies to avoid starting a costly war.

The alternative approach is to build an large army or two and take Alexandria, Memphis, Thebes, and maybe Petra. I would take Salamis too while your at it. The bulk of their economy and troop producing cities will be in your hands. They won't trouble you much after that.

The Macedonians are very easy if you have good cavalry. I would say at least four units of long sheild cavalry. Six is better. And put you general in with your cavalry force to beef it up a bit. If you can send your cavalry around the flanks and attack their phalanx line in the rear when they are engaged with your main troops, their line will crumble.

Once you take all of Italy and finish off the Julii, attack the Gauls on two fronts. The Gauls do not have a powerful enough military to sustain attacks on both fronts. Pincer them and they will die without much incedent. Make sure you take Alesia soon because it is probably the only city they have that can make anything stronger than a warband.

It would also be beneficial to take all of the islands, especially Rhodes. This will boost your income enourmously.

Basicaly, just push farther into Greece from the south while you are mopping up the Gauls. From there, your best bet is probably to head into Asia Minor, Brittania, and Germania at the same time. The reason is that by that time, you will be closing in on 50 settlements. Every possible enemy that you can fight now has a terrible culture penalty when you take a settlement. You want to move fast to avoid rioting.

dodge

08-29-2005, 13:03

I’ve just finished playing Carthage on very hard/very hard. I have played a number of factions (Brutii, Britannia, Pontus). In all cases I find that once you have built an empire with approaching 20 decent cities, the game becomes much easier because you’re income stream is secure (with Pontus I had so much money I started bribing anything in site just to get rid of it!). Therefore I set myself a new task with Carthage – I wanted to wipe out the four Roman factions.

As everyone says the initial stages of the game are the hardest. After a brief fling in Spain when I took Scallabis I was forced to abandon the Iberian peninsular (and in fact gifted Cordoba to Numidia) because the Romans and the Greeks started attacking in Sicily. This gift may have lead to long term benefits – apart from a brief opportunist spell Numidia were permanent loyal allies.

I concentrated on Sicilly as my intended future power base. Both Brutii and Scipii regularly made landings and took Messina and Lilybaeum at regular intervals, but after I beat the Greeks out of Syracuse this remained with me. Then Scipii attacked north Africa and quickly drove me out. At one point I was down to the Caralis, Palma and Syracuse and I thought I was doomed! Then I continued to fight in Sicily and several moves later secured the island (though by now Caralis had fallen to Scipii). From this point the Romans never attempted to land on the Sicilly again and my future existence was secure.

I retook Caralis and then allied with Numidia took back first Trapsus and then Carthage. Then it was time to return to the original plan and I started landings on the Italian mainland to attack Croton which took time because it was heavily defended.

One important aspect of my strategy was that since both Brutii and Scipii were constantly attacking me from the outset they did not build up sufficient might to become insuperable opponents. Thus once the main Brutii armies at Croton were destroyed that city and Tarentum quickly fell.

Next Scipii was destroyed - in Capua, Caralis (again!) and finally Cirta. Rome was a tough nut – my armies were constantly wiped out or ran away. I am hopeless at assaulting cities, usually relying on defeating the armies in the field and letting the AI finish the job with my armies with overwhelming force in another round. But once it fell Juli, even though this faction had 10 cities, was easy due to the size of my empire and secure income stream. Success!!!

My battlefield tactics are similar to other factions. Build up massed cavalry groups on the flanks – 80 to 100 or so and use these to dash around picking off rash units that approach with overwhelming force. If necessary detach a light unit to go the rear and attack onnagers so they stop firing. Then let their main units attack my infantry and use cavalry to smash into their rear. And overwhelm their general at the first opportunity with everything in his vicinity.

Lots of fun - dodge

Seamus Fermanagh

08-29-2005, 13:47

Dodge:

Sounds like a fun campaign -- tenacity is a good quality.

As to Siege Assault, some scamps on this site have re-named the game Rome: Total Siege, so it's an area you want to build up. I did a lot of custom games until I could figure out some solid systems for city assault. Found I have to be very methodical in my approach; much more of a "set-piece" than a field battle.

This may be some of the issue for you. Your battle tactics are very generic -- implying that you rely a lot on improvisation and reaction during the fight. Nothing wrong with that at all (kicks butt usually), but you can't leave a city assault that nebulous.

Seamus

bubbanator

08-29-2005, 23:08

The whole deal with the Scipii pludering your homeland could have all been avoided with a first turn strike on Messana. If you take the city, the Scipii are basically out of the game. They will make occasional landings in Sicily but other than that they are no problem. Your first task is to rebuild and unite the island. Then build an army and sack Capua. Then your greatest rival is dead. From Capua, you can sack Rome and move south to strike at the Brutii. I have found this approach most effective to take out the Romans.

MadKow

08-30-2005, 13:00

I just returned to RTW after a long break. I was not that happy with it after MTW but thats for another forum.

By playing Carthage i became very fond of slingers, namely the Balearic variety. A unit of BS destroys any early roman foot unit, and then some. Archers may cause some casualties but their numbers go down quickly due to the superior rate of fire.

The other day one of my generals went out to hunt some brigands in Sicily, only the general bodyguard and a unit of slingers. Syracuse was still Greek. This was a lowly 2 star general. After taking out the brigands, i was attacked by the greeks. I was facing 4 phalanxes and a 5 star general, so i withrew. But they pushed and i was forced to fight.

I positioned my troops at the edge of the map, ready do run, only to find i couldn't. So i prepared for my unavoidable fate. I advance the BS unit in order to start pelleting the phalanxes and the enemy general charges, i of course, charge my general on the enemy cav. Here is the point where i may have got lucky, as i eventually killed the enemy general. I then proceeded to maneuver with the BS, eroding the hoplites, and charging them from behind with my general (reduced to 10 horses and later 8...). resulted on a heroic victory, lots of good traits, and the subsequent punitive conquest of Syracuse.

Later the superior range of archers may render the Slingers obsolete, but so far they make a wonderful range unit.

bubbanator

09-01-2005, 01:37

I am planning on begining an isolationist campaign with Carthage soon. Obviously I can't only have my starting provinces, so what should I take at the begining? Do I take Sicily? Do I wipe out the Scipii? Do I do nothing?

Any ideas on how to make this isolationist campaign the best that it can be would be of great help.

Skott

09-01-2005, 20:01

Not sure what you mean by 'Isolationist Campaign'. Can you explain that a bit better?

bubbanator

09-01-2005, 21:12

Basicaly, it's staying neutral unless someone attacks you first, building up trade, pilliaging, etc.

It is mainly a game where the point is not expansion.

I will probalbly have between 5-10 settlements and deffend them, build up trade, have a large navy, and a few pilliaging armies to keep my economy going.

Garvanko

09-02-2005, 08:59

Interesting approach, Dodge.

Though, as bubbanator said, you shouldve perhaps dealt with Messana first. Gifting Corduba to Numidia was a masterstroke though.

Rome:Total Slayer

09-05-2005, 03:02

Build up all of your armies with as many elephants as you can afford the more the better. Your very first turn attack the Large scripii armie just out side of Lilibeum.. Crush that army and you'll be safe for at least 4 turns. Which gives you plenty of time to move your faction leader over to Caralis and crush a sizable Julii army. The Julii will send fleet after fleet with troops on them to your shores. Build up a good navy and dont let them land they're troops. As soon as you have enough money train as many good units in Carthage as possible. Then send them to Caralis to protect it from a northern invasion. After 3 or 4 crushing victories you need not worry about it any more. Concentrate on taking Syracuse which by this time is owned by a few Scripii.Take it and form an alliance with Greece. It'll bring in lots of trade money. ~D also in the first couple of turns make an allaiance with Gaul. It'll come in handy when fighting the Romans on their home turf.

rs2k2

09-07-2005, 05:43

well we all know, greek cities = rich...

so hows this for a strategy, abandon all your cities leaving only a small garrison in carthage to stall for time as your main forces first take cyrene, then kydona, and from there sparta, corinth, athens, etc...

quite an awkward feeling seeing greece covered in white isnt it?

bubbanator

09-07-2005, 22:02

What I ended up doing for my isolationist campaign was giving the Greeks a full stack at Syracuse to start out with. I wouldn't attack anyone at all unless they attacked me. I rushed to get alliances with the Greeks, Spanish, and Numidians. I tried to ally with the Scipii but they refused. I built up my economy at first. The Scipii field army was crushed by the Greeks so I didn't have to worry about them for a while. I knew that the Greeks could take Lillybaeum so I just had to pray that they wouldn't.

It turns out that the Greeks and Spanish did remain strong allies. I already had quite a large navy and I was getting bored so I decided to take on the Senate army. I bribed a Scipii general in Sicily so I took him, Hanno, and a 14 unit army to go invade Rome. I landed, hired 2 units of mercs, and ended my turn because I wanted the Senate army to attack me.

Then it says my faction leader died. I was very angry at first and thought that I may have to call off the invasion but then I remembered that I had a six star Roman with me. He was also now my faction heir. The senate army was outside of Rome so I beseiged the city in hopes of drawing every member of the Senate into one all-or-nothing battle.

My hopes became a reality when the main army attacked me. I won't go into detail about the battle but I will say that it was difficult with only 6 infantry units. My long sheild cavalry from Carthage saved the day.

So the city was taken after one frenzied battle. I suffered more casualties than I would have liked but it was acceptable because my strongest infantry was 4 units of Iberians...

My plan is to hold Rome and maybe send some pilliaging armies up to say hello to the Julii. I won't take the out the Brutii because I want some pressure put onto the Greeks to make sure they don't attack me with their massive army with 6 groups of Spartans in it. I also won't take either of the Scipii cities because I still want a challange in Sicily. Eventualy it will turn into one big free-for-all battle pit unless I mold world events to exactly how I want them to be.

Once I improve my economy more, I will build one super-army to go out and hunt down the greatest armies in the world and plunder great cities at my leisure. :bow:

Rome:Total Slayer

09-10-2005, 19:56

After taking the Italian peninsula. Keep moving north. Build up your War Elephants and Armored Elephants and move north the Gauls will be nothing against you. Make sure that you have plenty of "normal" cavalry to mop up the destruction your elephants cause :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

bubbanator

09-10-2005, 21:05

If you would have read the first line of my post, you would have seen that that was not my objective. Please read the entire post before commenting on it.

rs2k2

09-11-2005, 14:15

uhh i think he was just posting his own strategy, not commenting on yours..

anyways, i think elephants are just too valuable to use on a head on infantry charge...thus i employ alexander's tactic of hammer and anvil....only the hammer being the elephants followed up by horsies :)

Garvanko

09-24-2005, 03:27

Got the Brutii to agree to a protectorate agreement last night. Saved me ten years of endless war with the Romans, allowing me to consolidate and build. Who said you needed a blitz to survive the early game? ~:)

Plus, gifted Caralis to Numidia, who for some reason never got attacked by the Julii in the end. Playing Vh/m by the way.

Garvanko

09-24-2005, 20:38

Does anyone else find elephants cumbersome?

I prefer a Cav./Sacred Band/Poeni/Balearic combination..

bubbanator

09-24-2005, 22:58

^^
I would have to agree with you on that one. I rarely use them. Sacred band cavalry is the way to go. Just pertend like you were Macedon. Phalanxes push up and cavalry hits from behind.

Occasionally, I will have one group of Armored Eles with a raiding/pilliaging army. Or if I am hunting another factions grand army.

Overall, I don't find them that useful. Though it is pretty funny when you take them to fight the Gauls...

Garvanko

09-25-2005, 11:48

The're less expensive than elephants yet you get them last.

At the moment my Carthage campaign is going swimmingly.. Conquered Sicily, Tarentum, Croton, Capua, Lepis, Cirta, Dimmidi, Tingis, Caralis, and Crete, while managing to hold all my starting provinces. Expansion will move upwards into Spain, especially on the Gauls (so I'll get to see what bubb find so funny ~:) ), prepare for a battle for Rome itself (Armoured elephants, sacred bands already being trained), while preparing for major campaigns against the Julii and Greece.

My Alliance with Spain has held since turn 1, while the Greeks have kept themselves scarce.

Its 230 BC. And Im rich.

Alexanderofmacedon

10-22-2005, 05:30

Guide for M/M (some one who starts a campaign on default)

Okay. You start out with a few provinces with 7000 denari. The first thing you should do is go to every city and raise the taxes to very high. Most of the cities are in positives by a couple hundreds before you do this, but you want to jump start your income right away. After you have set it to very high build on basic income raising constructions such as roads, markets etc. Use a couple turns moving troops around and gaining money. Every turn make something new. Preferably to make more and more money, but it's up to you.

Once you get to around 40.000 denari it's time to really get in the military game. I suggest trying to take Sicily. Stack up Lilybauem (sp?) and get ready for a full scale assualt. As that is being done, move armies westward from Carthage into Numidian territory. In my opinion you'll want to clear the Numidian's out, for they usually ally with the Scipii to destroy you. Once you start your campaign in Numidia, you'll probably get betrayed by Spain (you should have made alliances with them at the begining). If your city is stacked (which it should be) then you will hold. The army that is sent by Spain is the stack from Carthago Nova. Once you defeat the army on your turf, move down the coast and take Carthago Nova, starting the war with Spain. Build up forces and money and invade all of Spain. Once Spain is taken move into northern Italy and Gaul. Ally with Gaul and try to destroy the Romans. By this time Sicily should be under your control for you to blockade ports, land troops in the south, and create a cumbersome distraction for your incroching northern army. By this point your generals and units from the Numidian war should be entering the Roman war. These veterans will help you take Rome and Italy.

With Italy, move your troops into Gaul and conquer the barbarian tribes. Gradually move east from gaul, and germania as well as east from Carthage into Egyptian territory. The rest is a piece of cake!~D

Hope it helps!~:cheers:

Chimp

10-23-2005, 09:48

My first campaign on medium was a complete disaster. Everybody's testimonies of how insanely tough going Carthage has for it had me spooked to the point of inaction. Every turn I sat there bracing myself against a swarm of Julii, Scipii, Spanish, Gaulic, Numidic and Greek invaders... which never came. After some odd 40 turns I had done nothing, and diddly had happened so I started over on hard. That made things... interesting.

My plan was a blitz expansion as always: wipe out Spain, Numidia and the Scipii simultaneously, then build up for the push on the rest of Italy before gearing up for real. Greece wouldn't ally, so I wiped them out in Syracuse, and the trick about creating a ford to block Messana didn't pan out in either campaign. Everything in the second campaign was one long uphill battle with blah for troops, and I only made inroads very slowly compared to my other campaigns so it really wasn't much of a blitz at all.

It got much more enjoyable once I accepted that Sacred Band Infantry and Cavalry were long off and that Poenis and Long Shields would be my bread and butter for some time to come. I also gave up on elephants initially, which were my primary motivation for giving Carthage a shot in the first place. The problem is that you can't retrain or replace them too many places, so it felt like throwing denarii out the window every time I lost some. That meant that the first half of the game felt like Macedonia on the battlefield with slingers instead of archers. Blargh!

I rocked Egypt, though. Here, Armored Elephants ruled supreme and what had been a scary foe with other factions became a walk in the park! Simply dash a line of 8-10 Sacred Band Infantry across the battlefield and put them in phalanx-mode just before impact. Then unleash your elephants from both flanks, stomp, stomp. Funniest battles ever, I tell ya'! Sacred Band Cavalry does really well against Desert Cavalry and slingers pummel the hell out of chariots like you wouldn't believe it. Rarely took more than 80-100 casualties against full stacks.

Sooooo, if I ever play Carthage again I'd crank out War Elephants and Balearic Slingers like they were going out of style and head straight for Egypt the minute I have Poeni Infantry, perhaps even just with Levy Pikemen. Should take care of the finances in real short order too! I bet you could take them on right around the time you have finished the Scipii, and possibly before, just holding Sicily. I'd take over Karthago Nova, then sell every building in the Spanish territories, and offer one city to Macedonia to cement an alliance and another to Numidia, and then concentrate on Greece, Egypt and Scipii instead of worrying myself silly over Spain and Numidia when there are *much* juicier targets around, and I fully believe that's doable from my full, all-map campaign on hard/hard.

As for battle setup, I make a line of 5 phalanges with another one behind them to guard the rear or move wherever necessary. Slingers go on the flanks in sets of 2. 2 Elephants are placed behind the slingers. I then have 4 Numidian Cavalry and 4 Sacred Bands behind the phalanges. The cavalry's job is to eliminate the archers, which are the only threat to the elephants, so I start by sending out the Numidian Cavalry to whatever flank has the most cavalry to irritate them and hopefully lure them away, and 2 Sacred Band Cavalry just behind them for protection. The other 2 I move to the opposite flank of the enemy in case an opening presents itself. The slingers and the phalanges I rush within range to apply pressure on the front, and place them within the zone where onagers can't hit them.

The goal is then to sneak in the Sacred Band Cavalry behind the line to take out the archers, and then both the Sacred Bands and the Numidians combine to take out the enemy cavalry and general. Then the phalanges move into contact and the elephants do the stomping from both sides while the cavalry continues to chase routing enemy cavalry. Once you get good at it, 2 elephants are actually overkill - 1 will do the job on Urbans and Spartans alike just fine. As I got better I also dropped the slingers alltogether and added +2 phalanges and +2 SBC for a final setup like this:

8 Sacred Band Infantry
5 Sacred Band Cavalry + 1 General
4 Numidian Javelin Cavalry
2 Armored Elephants

Onagers work really well in this configuation as well, so don't be afraid to ditch an elephant and a couple of phalanges for 3 onagers.

This method kills fast, efficiently and everywhere, and is even viable in MP. But the best part is the blast of watching the elephants tossing infantry about like ragdolls. I can watch it over and over and it never grows stale! Not to mention that this army feels *totally* Hannibal Barca if you ask me.