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frogbeastegg
10-04-2004, 17:21
This faction must be unlocked with game editing before you can play.

Bhruic
10-09-2004, 12:18
Armenia starts off in a mediocre situation. Only 2 provinces/cities, and only 1 of those can build a port (doesn't start with one). They are quite cash-poor, and the starting cities won't earn you much. And to top things off, your faction leader starts out quite old - he's died within the first 6 turns of the games I've played.

On the positive side, you start off with a decent contingent of horse archers. Learn to love them, as they are the key to any real expansion plans you may have.

The direction that you pick to expand in is going to determine a great deal of your strategy. My personal preference is to go after The Seleucid Empire. They usually get into an early war with Egypt, as as Egypt is quite strong, it tends to divert a lot of their resources. A quick trip to the south with the majority of your horse archers will net you another city, which has the benefit of splitting the Seleucid in two.

The Armenians are never going to have the army strength that some of the other factions have. Their infantry just isn't up to the job. Luckily, the AI is particularily inept against horse archers. I found that making a couple armies of a general plus a stack of horse archers was sufficient to win almost any battle. The only times I've suffered significant casualties was when the enemy had a large amount of foot archers - and even that can be dealt with.

The trick with horse archers is that you want to be on the attack (unless you are defending a city). The enemy loves to line up their armies and just stand there. Sure, they'll close to attack if you get too close, but horse archers don't need to be that close. I find the best strategy is to form up a semi-circle around the enemy position. This allows you to get shots coming in to the side of a unit, which will do a lot more damage than just frontal shooting.

If the enemy does decide to give chase, your response will depend on how many, and what types. Most of the units are slower than horse archers, so you can rely on skirmish mode to retreat them. Note: you can't rely on it for long term maneuvering, as it has a tendancy to flee towards the map border, and get stuck there. But for a short-term measure, it's usually effective. Against slow units, like most of the pike/spear types, skirmish should be fully effective. They just aren't fast enough to catch you. Most of the time you can pepper them full of arrows until they rout without being in any danger.

For the faster units, chariots, wardogs, fast foot, you'll want to keep a close eye on them. See if you can split your units, so that the armies are chasing only one of your units. Then, bring your other archers up and shoot into the rear. If the army turns, your other unit will then be shooting into the rear. Over time, this will wittle a unit down enough that they aren't much of a danger. If, however, you find that your units aren't behaving well, turn off skirmish mode and put them under manual control. It's not an ideal solution, as pathfinding can sometimes cause problems, but you should be able to get them away from the border, or blocking obstacles, and continue the fight.

For the really fast units, mainly light cavalry, you have a couple options. You can face them head on, after getting a volley or two off. It's going to cost you, but unless the enemy is mainly light cav, you should be able to take them, and still have enough units left to deal with the slower ones.

Or, you can use your general. Your general, with his heavy cav, is going to be able to beat the light cav, but, as always, you run the risk of having your general die. I tend to use my general most of the time, but one bad battle can cause lots of problems.

When attacking, keep in mind a simple fact - you aren't particularily interested in winning the battle. It's a hard thing to remember, as, in general, one fights to win. But the key with horse archers isn't about winning, it's about killing the enemy. If you need to spread the fight over multiple battles, do so. I've fought the same army 3 times in a row before finally winning. Each time, I withdrew my units when they ran out (or low) of arrows. The first two times I technically "lost", but I suffered 3 casualties, and killed over 400 men. Early in the game, no faction can afford losses like that on a regular basis and last long.

I mentioned that you want to attack with horse archers, except when defending a city. However, I should point out that although you can do a credible job defending a city with horse archers, you will do a much better job defending a city by attacking. The enemy isn't likely to have many, if any siege weapons built. In fact, it's highly unlikely the enemy can get into the city at all, on the first round. This is perfect conditions for skirmishing. The enemy army, even if highly mobile, won't be able to maneuver as fast as you can, by cutting through the city streets. The only important factor is to make sure they aren't right behind you when you go in through a gate. It's better to sacrifice a unit than to let them inside.

You'll note, after reading this, that I spent a lot more time talking about horse archers than I did any specific starting strategy. There's a good reason for that. The Armenians are only going to be able to expand in one direction at the beginning of the game, they don't have the money to field multiple armies early on. While I recommend going south, because it tends to pay off better in the long run, going east or north are both options, and they'll both work. The randomness of the game will determine how successful you are going to be along the way.

The only thing I'll say about 'direction' is that going north is likely the poorest choice. Large provinces that are underdeveloped means that your armies will be travelling more than fighting. That's the advantage of south and south-west. More tightly packed provinces mean more territory faster. But the flip-side of that is more enemies, and harder situations to defend.

I'll leave with a final bit of sage advice: Don't give up. You'll often find that your small army is attacked by much larger ones, especially if you get close to the Egyptians. Remember, by whittling down armies over multiple fights, you can do a lot more damage than army numbers would suggest. I was besieged in a city by Egyptians, and my ~350 men were facing over 900. The first battle I lost 80, and killed 600. The next I lost 40, and finished them off. So don't despair if you constantly find yourself outnumbered, it's not as big a deficit as it appears.

Bh

Bhruic
10-16-2004, 02:22
After playing Armenia a few more times, I thought I'd give some more tips on playing them effectively.

First off, some details: The two starting cities you get have really poor farming. This means that they will grow extremely slowly (if at all). You'll likely want to keep governors in them so that you can take advantage of slaves.

Also, Armenia can't build anything higher than roads, so movement around your territory will be slower than you are used to if you mainly play the Roman factions.

The way that Armenia is situated makes it a tempting target for Parthia. Although it is relatively easy to make an alliance with them early, they don't tend to stick by it. The same is true of the Pontus. The only one who you will likely be able to ally with is the Seleucid, should you choose not to attack them, as Egypt usually goes to war with them, so they desire all the help they can get. I found the Sythians to the north often go to war with Armenia, but they rarely actually attack. Even when I'm the only one they are at war with, they almost never send in armies.

The trick in RTW, I've found, is to limit the provinces that border enemies. With that in mind, I've changed my recommendation about the first attack to the Parthians. They are likely to attack anyway, so you aren't gaining an extra enemy. And because they border the edge of the map, you don't increase your chances of attack from others. For example, I tried attacking Pontus first. It worked, I managed to beat them. But I then ended up fighting Egypt and the Greeks. Eventually you'll have to fight both, but early game isn't the best time.

The other advantage to an early strike against Parthia is that you divide their empire up. Once you take the two cities to your immediate east, they have a really hard time fielding any armies against you. This gives you a great deal of breathing room to work with.

The one thing to keep in mind is that Egypt is going to become the dominate power in the east. Letting them build up for too long will lead to a very costly and prolonged war down the road. Once you have taken care of Parthia (I recommend letting them keep their northern province, they won't be in a position to do any harm), going to war with Egypt is a good call. Others in the region (specifically the Seleucid) are very likely to be at war with Egypt as well, so look for alliances. You don't even need to plan on keeping any territory from them immediately, a raid or two to pillage and burn down their buildings will keep them in check. It will also give you Denarii that you'll likely need to attack anyone else. Pontus is probably the best faction to eliminate next, as they are pretty small, and shouldn't be too challenging.

Once you've got a decent sized empire, it's time to go for the knock-out blow on Egypt. You'll likely be in for a tough fight, as the staple of the Armenian army, the horse archer, has a tough time facing the various archer units of the Egyptians. Especially the Pharaohs Bowmen and Chariot archers. Hopefully by this point you've built up a city enough to be able to make Cataphracts. They are quite powerful horse units, and are armoured enough to be able to withstand arrow storms (you can use Cataphract archers as well, but their melee stats aren't as good).

Bh

Vulgarius
11-02-2004, 18:11
Armenian Campaign Notes. 1 :charge:

I have started a game as the Armenians. I got some quick income from a foray into the Crimea. I was setting up trade and made some good alliances. That’s when things got interesting. The Ponts and the Scythians made a sudden alliance which raised an eyebrow. The next turn a huge Pontic army enters my territory and simultaneously, a medium sized Scythian army shows up at Chersoneses. Hmm. I was forced to evacuate my Horse Archers and Peltasts and send them back home. The Pontic fleet ambushed them and laid siege to my Eastern city (?). My Crimean Army managed to land minus a few ships and I bypassed the besieging army and combined them with troops from my capitol. The result was a slaughter of the flower of the Pontic military as they were trapped between the skirmishers who were sallying from the city and a combined army of 8 family members, Horse Archers and my Cataphracts. I learned a good tactic which I applied in the next few turns. I retired my troops to the cities and hastily retrained. My family members Heavy Cavalry units regenerate on there own and seem to grow with retinue members (I could be wrong on this). I had a 1 turn respite before Scythia besieged the Crimea and a second huge Pontic army appeared up the coast highway. I let them siege again and repeated the sandwich resulting in the same slaughter of a slightly less lavishly equipped army. I hastily repeated my retraining once more just as a third half stack showed up. This time I was a little ticked and since I was a little more confident about my cavalry tactics I decided to view the coast road as MY bowling alley! I subsequently steamrolled over a dozen units in various sized stacks in detail until I rolled out on to the Central Turkish Valley where Sinope and Mazaka lay. As I entered the region it seemed that the Ponts had been very busy and my offensive was very timely. Sinope was at maximum troop capacity and smaller stacklets were scattered on the plain. I ran down each stacklet and then decided on Sinope just as the faction leader divided his army in half and came after me with scraps coming in from all sides. It was a rough battle, having troops coming from all directions but the superb independent skirmishing ability of Horse Archers allowed me to concentrate my family members and Cataphracts and isolate the Pontic cavalry into kill zones and then move on to isolate infantry units in detail. I was forced to hire Mercenary units for sapping and then Besieged Sinope. Sinope fell soon after a vain attempt by the garrison which had been robbed by the faction leaders attempt to trap my army. But Sinope was well worth the campaign as now I can build Cataphract Archers....Just as an Egyptian army appeared at my Southern pass fortlet.
~:cheers:

HopAlongBunny
11-05-2004, 11:30
These guys are dirt poor.

The only thing keeping my faction afloat is my traveling salesmen. I have sold map info to just about everyone on the map...and some twice. I am early in the game and sacked Susa; 9k for extermination giving me almost 5k clear (ran deep into debt)

You will likely need to use diplomats to sell anything that someone will buy. I might even sell Susa to finance a war against Pontus (my allies) just because they have some nice towns that might make some money ~:)

Paul Peru
11-05-2004, 12:04
I started by taking Phraaspa/sumtin while it was rebel, beating the Parthians there by sending my town garrison instead of the field general. The Parthians then lurked around my territory for a while. I got an alliance with the Scythians, which they have kept (and I got them into two wars by keeping my ship next to theirs ~:) )
After I attacked the Seleucids at Hatra, the Parthians soon sieged one of my towns. It was not long before Pontus started sending huge amounts of EI crap at me. Neither Pontus nor SE would have anything to do with a ceasefire, though I proposed attacking the SE's Egyptian enemies. Pontus insists that I "learn the value of peace"/sumtin, which I have learned from senselessly slaughtering so many of their inf. ~;)
After I got all of Parthias southern territories, Egypt attacked me as well. By then I was "largest faction". Not likely to be most advanced, though. Initial towns are poor and hard to get to grow, so get some richer cities to the south. Cavalry rules, HA, CA and the versatile general units. Parthians have similar units, but until chariots and elephants start appearing en masse, casualties against the southern and western enemies are likely to be extremely low.
My family members hardly breed. I don't know if it's because I keep bribing Pontic ones. (My economy has actually gotten off the ground at last. Being able to kick derriere with comparatively small armies helps.)

Maltz
11-20-2004, 21:48
Wow, no kidding. Armania is a powerful faction! After finishing the Scythian campaign, I thought I found an almighty winner, but not until I tried Armania - my new favorite.

The biggest difference between Armania and any other horse archer factions (Scythia, Parthia, sorry no Pontus I got it wrong before this edit) is that they are "solid". Armanians not only have HA, but they have metal covering their horses. Cataphract archers, cataphract, and some human version of cataphract: phalanx and legions.

All cataphracts will take 2 turns to produce, but once you expand far enough, you will have enough troop producing centers anyways, so that doesn't make a large difference.

Imagine you don't have to run around like Scythians when you see tons of Senate triarii on the field. Charge them with your legions and cataphracts in the back! You don't have to camp your mass archers outside the settlement until you thin down the spears to managable size for your axeman. Charge your infantry in, covered by cataphracts!

***

All right, those are the ideal cases. Actually cataphract and legions only come after you hit the 12,000 city level. Before that you suffer from poverty.

Your both starting cities have a negative growth rate if you tune up the tax - though I bet you will or you are running a deficit from the beginning. The closest fortune, as the opening movie suggests, is the desert. (I have no idea why deserts gives you fortune, though. They didn't export petroleum at that time...) Anyways, the Selucid Emprie and Egypt are both super rich, so you want their lands for your cataphract, then you can get to your showdown with the Romans. Sounds very challenging throughout!

When I played I chose an expansion route via Parthia. Parthia is a powerful foe that better to be dealt early then late. Also, Parthia has no other place to go, they will eventually come to your Armanian empire with hordes of HA - everybody's nightmare. The first rebel town on the east was my first priority (as a jump point to Parthia). Although Parthia can take this little town in round 2 and you are bound to see a magenta army when you rush there, the Parthians will not occupy that town, and instead fall back to their own territory once they see your presence. I guess they are preparing for some defense against your inevitable invasion. Not too stupid!

The first few battles against Parthia is probably going to be the hardest battle of Armania ever. Parthia probably has an army 1.5 times as large as you, while the making of yours and theirs is nearly identical. The most hurting difference is that you have only 1 cataphract, but they have 2. You probably have 1 family member for the mission, and they have like 3. Parthia's starting faction leader is one of the best in the game. When I played, I didn't call my own clan leader (who is also a superman) to do the job. It was one of the hardest battles I've ever fought in RTW.

You might want to save some money from construction for the first few turns, if you want to go for Parthia first. If you see a captain-led Parthia army don't hesitate to bribe it with whatever money you have - most of them will join you immediately! When I played this time, they were all led by the faction leader, so I had no chance.

When I laid siege on the Parthia city, I have actually defeated 1/3 of their army led by another family member on the field already. Yet they still didn't hesitate to sally out. The blue-red bar shows something like 3:5 (!) The key to victory in any realistic or game battle was still "divide and conquer". AI tries to surround me from two directions, so I rushed everything to their weaker flank (the flank without the leader). That weaker flank was not weak at all - a bunch of Horse archers, eastern infantry and cataphract. The cataphract didn't break until it was down to 2 men! I killed as many as possible, and before the Parthia leader rushed in to rescue, I ran everybody to a safe distance to wait for their next wave of attack. The blue-red bar still shows their favor, about 4:5 at this point.

Soon they came, but again tried to separate in two directions. If AI were real human I bet they wouldn't make the same mistake twice. So again I killed the weaker flank with my entire army, and challenged their charging family members. With well protected general in the back, I successfully killed one of their family members, and the other retreated back to the town center. Finally the blue-red bar was on my favor.

After a few more rounds shooting down individual HAs their leader is finally dead. It came the time for city square assault. All of my HA were down to 10-30 men, but I had no other weapon. I charged them in, 4 of them routed almost instantly, but those who stayed finished the job with the cataphract and crappy eastern infantry.

I enslaved both Parthian cities to boost my starting cities's population to over 6000. This way I can start producing cataphract archers there. Later on I used black sea to ship my cataphracts to the front line, and started another troop producing center in Selucid's capital.

The phalanx of Selucid empire is hopeless before Armanian HA, same as Greek/Macedon phalanx is hopeless before Scythia. Pontus loves hordes of eastern infantry, shooting practice! A bit challenge comes when facing Egypt. Their chariots are quite painful, but should also succumb after reasonable loss of HA.

I just witnessed another useless aspect of phalanx. I had 3 units of 4-row deap of Armania spearman phalanx appraoching an Egyptian town center. I purposely thinned down the Egyptian axe cavalry to "2 men" left. They charged head-on into the spear, one died immediately and the other charged into the spears, managed to kill 7 spearmen... I never want to use them again.

***

Edited to update: Now it is about 16 years in the game (Vh/Vh) and I own about 35 provinces. Annoying enemy fleets blocks my transport of cataphract, so mostly I still rely on plain HA and a lot of mercenary. Egypt is gone, but left a plague to my new faction leader in Alexendria. I just fought some very exciting battle with Macedon, also avoiding a nother plague in their capital.

Now I am having war with Scythia (former ally but betrayed me by blocking my port), Dacia (occupied their empty capital for free), Macedon and Numidia. Soon it will come to the time for Rome. 16 years is quite a good period for AI Roman to develop. Really expect some big battles. Generally speaking it is a very fun campaign.

Silver Rusher
11-30-2004, 22:18
One thing I have to say about Armenia is ALWAYS ATTACK PONTUS FIRST. You aren't strong enough to take anyone else on yet. Try to maintain a steady peace with Parthia.

If you need guidance into what units to train, go here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=640574

HopAlongBunny
12-13-2004, 12:56
I have found almost every unit is simply helpless against the cataphract archers.

Any unit fast enough to chase them is too light to hurt them. The massed archery of Egypt will hurt a lil more than you'd like but once you run them over the problem disappears ~:)

tnt_73
12-14-2004, 08:52
>>Edited to update: Now it is about 16 years in the game (Vh/Vh) and I own about 35 provinces.


hmmmm.... i cant believe it. 16 Years = 32 Rounds and you own 35 provinces??? Wow.
In my scythian campaign i also own 35 provinces (including Rom). But i am 180 b.c.

I am confused.....

Maltz
12-14-2004, 21:25
I am confused.....

First, you have to believe in yourself. Keep telling yourself "I can do it. I can do it." ~;)

http://protein.biochem.queensu.ca/~dlee/others/rtw/armenia/arm_23.jpg

There is also an exponential factor in expansion, I am sure you know the reason. With more resources you can generate more armies, so the first 10 turns you can probably take 5 provinces, while the next 10 turns you can take 10, the next 10 you can take 20, and the final 10 turns you take 40 -- or hit the map edge. Actually I know many people can do faster than me... ~:)

Krusader
12-17-2004, 23:31
A quick way to get cash in the beginning is to attack Atropatene/city Phraaspa with all your cavalry in Artaxarta. Just continue to move as Parthia is also coming after it, and take your Cataphracts and family member west for Artaxarta to follow up, in case Parthia decides to attack. As soon as you take Phraaspa, build a Wooden Palisade to keep the Parthians out for one more turn. Then build up troops, and some turns later attack Arsakia which is two turns away from Phraaspa. That will be a major setback to Parthia too.

Will post more with army setup.

Jay Tee
02-13-2005, 13:49
I used a similar approach in the beginning as most here: first take the two provinces on the east (Phraaspa and Arsakia(?)). Then I took Hatra from the Seulicids because it was only lightly defended. The next turn I went for Palmyra which was still Rebel, so also an easy picking.

After that I negotiated peace with the Seulicids and took on Susa. From that moment onwards I became a target of the Egyptians but I managed to hold them of by beating several stacks with my HA. Next to go was Seleucia and after that I took Antioch, Jerusalem and Cyprus (all from Egypt). From that moment on my financial problems were history. Egypt is now out of the top 5 of factions (and I am number 1) ;-)

I let the Partians have Arabia and the Seulicids Damascus for the time being to form a buffer against the Egyptians. This worked quite well as I saw the Egyptians attack them several times. At this moment I've just taken Damascus, Arabia and Tarsus and am preparing an attack on Memphis from Jerusalem. After I take Memphis I guess the Egyptian problem will be over.

The building strat I used for troop production is only build stables to be able to produce HA. HA is the only troop type I made in the beginning. For the rest I started building farms to increase growth rate and then buildings that generate money (e.g. mines in Kotais). Besides that I sent dipomats all over the world to sell map info and make trade agreements/alliances.

One other thing to note is that in my campaign rebels kept popping up in the mountain pas between Artaxarta and Hatra. So I kept a diplomat there wandering about to bribe them so I could get troops without decreasing my population. The peasants and excess EI I disbanded in the towns that needed a population boost.

When you take a new city always use enslave to boost the population of your other cities.

I found Armenia to be a pretty easy faction to play with once you find out how to play with HA. The only real problems I had were with the Egyptians and there archers, chariot archers and desert cav. I always make my HA go for the archers first, trying to thin them out and then charge them. Other troops can't really harm HA. The two cataphracts the Parthians start out with I've just avoided by outmanouvering them on the camp map. When I finally met them it was om my terms with a full stack of HA + general while he had only the cataphracts + 3 or 4 other units + general.

Hope this helps, it really is a fun faction to play with despite their bad starting situation.

Zakor
04-27-2005, 07:50
This culture is unable to get level 5 temples...Is this because they were never originally intended to be a player faction? I think that it's either an over sight, or an intent of the game makers that Armenia never be playable that correlates with the fact that they have no level 5 temples... Has anyone modded any?

cunobelinus
04-27-2005, 10:18
there will be more stuff like in the expansion pack hopefully cant wait for it

tibilicus
04-27-2005, 15:26
Is Armenia very hard tyhinkg of trying them on h/h at first. Must be better than Sythia though.

Craterus
04-27-2005, 16:20
They have an easier front for expansion and their provinces are smaller and easier to manage.. plus they have cats and cat archers..

katank
04-27-2005, 17:06
Lack of level 5 temples does not mean they weren't meant to be a player faction. Carthage is a player faction and has no level 5 temples.

Armenia is great. Just don't try to fight the Parthian army with faction leader and 2 catas in the first 10 turns or so. You have little that can take on the 2 catas. They are virtually impervious to arrow fire and the only heavy cav you have is general's cav which is likely to die due to the catas' armour piercing attack.

One favored strategy in 1.0 or 1.1 is to have a diplomat shadow that army. There is sometimes a turn in which the catas become separated from the faction leader and then you can bribe it for cheap. Alas, higer bribe costs in 1.2 makes this impossible.

tibilicus
04-29-2005, 15:43
Ok need help on this just sat around and now the year is 249 b.c. Got 4 provinces but wich way should i go? Should i go for the only neutral faction Selucia?

Franconicus
04-29-2005, 15:50
"If you do not have any clear order, find someone and kill him!"

Erwin Rommel, German Feldmarschall

Just joking! ~:cheers:

tibilicus
04-29-2005, 15:54
Hmmmmmmmm I thinkg i should pcik of the selucids and then pontus. The selucids urban militia dont stand a chance vs my HA ~D

Craterus
04-29-2005, 16:36
Go for Pontus, then Seleucia, Egypt will knowck them out. If Egypt are close to knocking S.E. then go and pick up the pieces before they nab all the land. And get Parthia's provinces. They are easy.

katank
04-29-2005, 16:51
I would suggest picking of Pharspa (sp?) first and then sneak attacking Arsakia.

Simultaneously, head south to sack Hatra then into Palmyra and Damascus.

Then pursue active warfare against the Egyptians as well. You want to contain Egypt by preventing them from killing S.E.

You want to take Antioch at your leisure. Let the S.E. and Egypt start a war before you take on both of them though.

You should avoid fighting Parthia after taking Arsakia. Build walls and units to resist their sieges. Then after you outproduce them, use masses of eastern inf to bog down their cataphracts and rear attack with you cav. until you can afford at least 6 eastern inf and about 8 cav units to devote to that front, do not take on the Parthian army with 2 catas.

Abokasee
04-30-2005, 14:18
I Am Simplely An Expert At Armenia Listen

First Build A Farm In Both Of Your Citys
Second Try To Take The Nearst Town Down South
Thrird Build A Road At Lowest Poplution Of On The City Futher North And Enslave The City Down South
Fouth Make Trade With Every Single Neighbour
Fith Attack And Destroy The Sulucid's
Sixth Attack And Destory Pontus

All That = World Domanation Because You Take The Richest Lands With To Make A Great Big Army!!!

tibilicus
05-01-2005, 09:05
First, you have to believe in yourself. Keep telling yourself "I can do it. I can do it." ~;)

http://protein.biochem.queensu.ca/~dlee/others/rtw/armenia/arm_23.jpg

There is also an exponential factor in expansion, I am sure you know the reason. With more resources you can generate more armies, so the first 10 turns you can probably take 5 provinces, while the next 10 turns you can take 10, the next 10 you can take 20, and the final 10 turns you take 40 -- or hit the map edge. Actually I know many people can do faster than me... ~:)
wow im on 247 b.c and i only have 4 provinces. I just dont know wich way to turn............

Craterus
05-02-2005, 16:21
I said more than WOW when I saw that map. It's amazing, especially by 242bc.

Deus ret.
05-05-2005, 18:16
Wow, 242bc really is an amazing speed, especially with Armenia. Cheers!

As for the starting strategy, I agree with katank as far as your primary goal should be to strengthen your pretty weak position at the expense of the Parthians. So take your garrison and beat them to Phraaspa. Then move up the rest of your army (leave only infantry in Kotais for any eventuality), hire as many mercs as you can and attack as soon as you catch the Parthians in a weak situation, i.e. when they split their faction leader army to chase some rebels etc. This should happen within the first five turns of the game. You MUST use your own (quite decent) faction leader as well as any dispensable family members to succeed in the attack. It will be tough, but it's possible even if both of the Parthian's catas are in that army. In my game (h/h), I had just one unit of eastern mercs as well as two peltasts in addition to the cata, two HA's, my leader and his heir against his leader, two catas and a couple of horse archers. One of the catas totally crushed the mercs and most of the peltasts together with their leader, but this gave me enough time to use the really awesome javelin attack of my generals against his cata and then ganged up on their leader while outmaneuvering the second cata. In the end, just two HA's and half a unit of the Parthian's catas managed to escape to Arsakia and were killed in a sally battle when I besieged them two turns later.

To be fast is decisive because your fragile economy won't stand long if you miss the opportunity to attack ASAP. After you have captured and enslaved Susa, your main problems should be overcome. Build a second army in Artaxarta with as many cata archers as you can and attack the Seleucids from two sides (Hatra and Seleucia). Usually, they are occupied with the Egyptians, but in my game the Seleucids became the Eggy's protectorate on turn two, so I'm having a really tough fight, especially since the Eggys have conquered all rebel provinces bordering the Seleucids (and me!) and pose a constant threat to the Southern flank. Annoying since the SCs still are rich enough to throw stack after stack at me, creating a pretty stalemate on the ford to Antioch....another very nasty thing I noticed are those &%$§#- scythed chariots of the SCs....their usefulness may be questioned in general but against my cavalry army (just built my first two heavy spearmen up in Artaxarta lol...) they are simply deadly. Even if I keep peppering them with two silver-chevron cata archers they die veeeery slowly, or at least slowly enough to rip through all what I have in cavalry. :embarassed: Any hints on that?

pezhetairoi
05-06-2005, 01:33
Me, I'd abandon Armenia, flood into Asia Minor, and set up shop there. Maybe take over Greece as well. Avoid Egypt until they and the Seleucids are both bleeding into the desert sand, then storm in. The Aegean is where the money's at, and I'm gonna get it. That way, too, Parthia can be avoided, etc. As i've so often said in other threads, I'm not the katank sort of player, I prefer security at the start, so I must have money. I was also considering adding another 1-2k denarii to the starter treasury of Armenia the first time I try it (if ever) and make it slightly easier. If you're talking about minimising territories facing enemies, Asia minor is the best. If you follow the expand-from-homeland strategy you'd have Pontus, Parthians and Seleucids at first, then Pontus, Seleucids, Egypt and Parthians. My strategy upon its completion would give me only the Seleucids, assuming the Egyptians don't capture Antioch (damn, I'd pay the Seleucids to defend that city) and I retain my home cities (not likely.) It would also result in Pontus' annihilation and the erasure of the Greek presence on Asia Minor. A quick one-turn crossing from Pergamum or Nicomedia would net my Byzantium, and from there I can either turn into Thrace to capture the Black Sea ports, or west into Macedonia to march down to Sparta and cripple the Greeks, perhaps even starting a war with the Romans when I felt ready. HA, after all, are wonderful against hastati, which should be all they have. Alright, Egypt have nasty archers, and the longer I let them live the harder they get, by why worry? Bribes are all-powerful, especially since the AI has a nasty habit of sending captain-leds to attack Tarsus, my Achilles' heel. And besides, as someone said earlier, just you get safe enough to develop cats, and you're almost invincible against any arrow storm the Egyptians send at you.

Bhruic
05-06-2005, 02:15
Why abandon Armenia? It's one of the more defensible spots. The only one that is likely to attack you there is Pontus. It's easy to keep them more occupied somewhere else. Scythia almost never brings troops down to attack.

You can still flood Asia Minor without abandoning the home provinces.

Bh

pezhetairoi
05-06-2005, 05:21
sorry, allow me to clarify--when I say 'abandon' I meant to empty it of all military units except a garrison of perhaps peasantry. I.e. the home provinces will still be there, but if they are attacked I don't plan on defending them. They may be defensible in terms of location but they're pretty far from every other place--2 turns to Phraaspa, even more to Hatra, 2 turns to Sinope, etc etc, and even further if you go from there on eastwards or south. Whereas once you enter Asia Minor you have a city every turn or so. Rather much better.

I always had this feeling that if it's hard for the enemy to get to you it's hard for you to get to the enemy. And...you forget Parthia? I don't know...does Parthia attack? If it doesn't then there's perhaps not so much to worry about.

Bhruic
05-06-2005, 05:42
Oh, ok. I assumed you meant "abandon" in the give away/revolt sense. That's pretty much what I do as well. Well, I "abandon" my cities in every game, as the AI won't make early attacks, and rebel armies won't attack cities.

Yes, Parthia will attack Armenia, I tend to assume people will take out Parthia early, as I usually do. I like having my back to a wall, and the edge of the map is the best "wall" I can find. ~:)

Bh

Deus ret.
05-06-2005, 09:32
True. Even if it could be somewhat more golden instead of just dusty. :bucktooth: If you wait too long to take them out (and they will get a nice boost if you practically surrender your starting cities which they will attack sooner or later), they will get considerably more nasty later on. HA's are annoying, but Persian cav and catas together will give you a hard time.
An advantage may be that the Eggy will have somewhat more decent opposition to deal with before attacking you, though. ~:cool:
Does anyone know how to counter these ****ing chariots of the SC's or Pontus?? They really wipe the floor with my cav. :help:

katank
05-07-2005, 02:16
For chariot fighting, make sure your cav don't contact them. The heavily armoured stuff will melt like hot butter also due to the AP attack of the chariots.

Pepper them with HAs from afar. Also be sure to try to get some skirmishers/slingers to attack them. The former get a nice attack bonus against em while the latter is very accurate and has a low angle of fire, optimal for picking off chariots. Flaming ammo for archers are also good for making em run amok.

One or two chariots don't consist a significant threat. If there are more, focus fire of the center ones. This makes them run amok. It's amazing what amok chariots do to other chariots. This makes for chain rout many times as their dealy chariots turn against each other.

pezhetairoi
05-09-2005, 04:20
I faced chariots once when Sardis garrison sallied against me on the last turn. They had 7 units of pikemen and 6 units of scythed chariots, but it was no fun at all because they kept charging out of one gate, and you can imagine what 13 units, half of then SCYTHED chariots, and 2 generals' cavalry can do jammed in one chokepoint, while my onagers have taken out the machinegun towers and my 6 units of HA and 3 units of noble archers have formed a neat semicircle from the wall on the left of the gate to the wall on the right, shooting at that traffic jam from all sides. In short, absolutely no fun before. I would relish the chance to meet scythed chariots in open battle as Scythia or Armenia, but too bad, SC are down to Hatra and they are no longer any threat. So.

Deus ret.
05-09-2005, 22:29
I would relish the chance to meet scythed chariots in open battle as Scythia or Armenia

well, play as Armenia then. have a force of some horse archers and some heavier cav (generals, catas, sarmatians) with which you easily beat armies 4 times as numerous as you. watch them all be ground into the dust even if you attack those %$§&#-chariots from the flanks or rear.
then rethink. gather as much of your crappy infantry as you have (that is, before heavy spearmen -- they totally change the situation) and place them in front of some unmounted ranged attackers...in short, abandon the primary strength of your faction and watch the SCs grind your infantry into the dust as they turn and run amok under the fire. who cares, EI is easily replaced (and somehow I can't help feeling a certain pleasure in watching them die...even if they're my own :evilgrin: ).
then fight on gaily until you encounter the eggy's family chariots which have 5 hp each... honestly, fighting chariots is not really funny with a cav army. even just two of them can pose a threat to a stronger army because they outrun your melee cav and succumb to horse archer fire painfully slow.

pezhetairoi
05-10-2005, 01:02
But still, I'd make a bad general if I shied away from such conflicts :-D I'm pretty sure the HA can do nasty things. And I do fight with some infantry support, so... yum. It will be fun.

cunobelinus
05-25-2005, 20:19
so far i own 11 provinces by 238 i am beating egypt and have surrounded T.S.E pontus have decided to attack me at kotais but i dont ahve an army near by i want to attack them so i have some cataphract arhcers ready to weaken them before i get my main army in.parthia have just campus sakae and they have a navy that is annoying me i have attacked them and they are sunk now.i will write again wen i have more info on this campaign!!

Craterus
05-25-2005, 20:51
So he returns... I haven't seen you around the Guides for a while, Littlegannon.

Please use SpellCheck, your posts are difficult to read.

Good Luck with your Armenian campaign, nonetheless!

pezhetairoi
05-26-2005, 01:44
Yeap, they say Armenia is the most difficult campaign... I can believe that. Welcome back, though, lil'gannon! Y'know, talking about family chariots, when we bribe generals we ought to get their bodyguard units too. E.g. if I bribe a Briton while my family members are cavalry his should be chariotry, etc. No reason why he'd suddenly give up his chariots to ride on unfamiliar horses just because he's now under a new banner.

Viking
05-26-2005, 20:01
Yeap, they say Armenia is the most difficult campaign... I can believe that.

But Armenia got those dreadfull cataphract archers, in my opinion the best unit in the game. Also legions and phalanxes.

So what`s so difficult? Haven`t tried `em out yet.

pezhetairoi
05-27-2005, 06:52
Difficult usually means gamestart... No campaign in RTW is really difficult once you establish yourself. :-D Especially for Armenia, what with their late game troop array which are *wow*. I love CAs.

Craterus
05-27-2005, 17:43
CA's are almost as good as Cataphracts (melee) and they can fire missiles. They're an ultimate unit. And at least they're historically accurate, I think.

katank
05-28-2005, 16:42
That's what the melee stats seem to indicate. However, note that they don't have an armour piercing attack. This means that they will get destroyed by real lancer cataphracts in melee.

However, they are great for picking off medium and light cav chasing them though.

Zakor
06-16-2005, 19:29
One thing I have to say about Armenia is ALWAYS ATTACK PONTUS FIRST. You aren't strong enough to take anyone else on yet. Try to maintain a steady peace with Parthia.

If you need guidance into what units to train, go here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=640574

I have had good luck with going down and immediately attacking HATRA. It seems that consistently, right after that, the Selucids offer peace...

Deus ret.
06-17-2005, 13:48
you will have won little with that. Maybe you expanded your territory slightly but your strategic position is at least as bad as before. I strongly suggest taking out the Southern Parthians ASAP, even if their provinces are rather poor and will be next to useless in the later stages of the game. At the beginning, though, they have the unbeatable advantage of being very secure strategically, so that you can concentrate your scarce army resources further West --- you will need them against the other factions.
Only taking Hatra leaves you with three even more extended flanks. If you like a challenge, use the opportunity, but you might find yourself unable to defend all fronts at once. In my experience, neither of your neighbours (except maybe for the Scythians, at least if you block the passes) will leave you alone for a long time, and it's better to have fewer if one attacks.

katank
06-17-2005, 17:01
Heading east to sneak attack Arsakia is ideal. This will cripple them.

Use small stacks and forts to block movement for the large parthian army.

Once you take Susa also, Parthia is pretty much dead.

Bribe the cataphracts as soon as they are in a captain led stack.

crazybastard
06-17-2005, 20:28
compare to Numidia, Armenia is a piece of cake. really because Egypt attacks Siwa like at the 2nd turn and Carthage is right next to the capital and all those crappy african provinces produce nothing but sand and squalors...talk about poverty.

Deus ret.
06-18-2005, 02:19
Abandoning Siwa and pulling your forces west will give you a boost vs. your enemies there. With Carthage's African provinces, taking on the Romans is much more easy. So leave those crappy desert provinces alone and go for the bigger stuff, using plenty of your remarkable cav.
Gradually conquer Spain from Tingi and net some nice rich provinces.
Capturing Lilybaeum before the Romans will cripple the Scipii nicely. Trash 'em out of Sicily and earn even more money.

Admittedly, it's hard but so is Armenia. Forget your infantry; CAs only come after the toughest battle (against Parthia) is over; and they as well as your HAs are far from being invincible in the region. A good late-game line-up won't help you in the struggle for its prerequisitions. Until you conquer either Antioch or a good portion of Asia Minor (of which I'm not a fan) your position is quite precarious, troop-wise as well as economically. CAs are superb but also expensive.

katank
06-18-2005, 04:11
Numidia is better off sneak attacking Thebes, works every time.

As for Armenia, they are quite a bit easier than Numidia as you don't go into the red immediately.

Position is certainly less secure than the Romans etc. but is really not bad.

Just watch for Parthia's 2 beastly cataphracts and you'll be fine.

pezhetairoi
07-05-2005, 02:15
...you don't go into the red immediately, but close to that. I've tried out the opening 10 turns with Armenia and found it rather challenging, until you annihilate Pontus. For one, Armenia is easier than Numidia, which starts out with those worthless javelinmen that can't fight in melee for nuts and can't run away from enemies, and who run out of javelins all too fast.

Armenia doesn't start out with cataphractoi, does it?

Deus ret.
07-05-2005, 13:38
yes, they do. just one, though, compared to the Parthians' two. Which makes an early war against them (of which I am an advocate) really tough if you don't wait until they split their army....or they simply don't do it.

An elimination of Pontus towards the mid-game will still see them fielding tons of their crappy 1st and 2nd level infantry, maybe with some Pontic heavy cav and chariots at the worst, whereas the Parthians will still have their initial annoying HAs and later come up with Persian cav and the like if you don't contain (or better: crush) them early on. Their area also has the advantage of being strategically very secure.

pezhetairoi
07-06-2005, 01:08
Not particularly; Arsakia is weak to unannounced attacks from Hatra, which is a good city to take for Armenia (and it has done so in my Brutii campaign), and Susa is also vulnerable since Parthia has the habit of drawing off lots of their troops to attack Dumatha or Palmyra. But yes, Pontus has the annoying EI habit. I'm going to change them to comfortable caesar to make them do better than that.

Taurus
07-08-2005, 10:26
Hi all,
As my Armenian campaign rages on (very well I might add) I just thought I would post some tips/hints for anybody wishing to start a campaign as them.

*Note: that this is just my strategy and although it worked for me it doesn't mean it will work for everybody. Thanks.

I started off as Armenia because I though that their troop selection was very interesting and I had yet to play a campaign with proper cavalry archers.
Anyway, I began the campaign and immidietly took out Pontus within about 4 turns, (I used the starting army and took all available troops out of Artaxarta and Kotais to form two seperate invading forces.)

Following the successful conquest of Pontus which ended in there complete extinction as a faction I moved on to take Pergamum (spelling?) from the Greeks. I had also allied with Egypt by this time and Thrace as well. The Seleucids disagreed to my proposal so I readied my armies for the iminent invasion.

I sent a diplomat over to the Greek mainland to see that Macedon had pushed the Greeks from their homeland and were now conquering my ally, Thrace. I decided to leave my friend stranded and took Rhodes instead which eliminated the Greeks from the equation. I also took Halicarnassuss from the rebels in quick succession.

The Seleucids by this time decided to make the first move and invaded Mazaka and Ancrya and were also heading for Pergamum. I mustered all my northern armies and repelled the invasion and following this took the weakened city of Tarsus. I belived that Antioch was up for grabs also so I took that. After stabilising all of modern Turkey I turned my attention south towards Egypt and was making good progress. I mustered my amphibous invasion forces for the attack on the Nile Delta cities and this is as far as my campaign has got so far.

Hope this helps,
Thanks,
- Vip3r Warrior

katank
07-09-2005, 03:37
Maybe I should try the Pontic route, sounds interesting.

However, neutralizing Parthia early would kill a dangerous rival and then you can do a clockwise sweep of Seleucids and Egyptians who are best destined to die ASAP.

Pontus doesn't seem much of a problem. A lone fort will suffice to seal off the passes and that's provided you don't like getting cheap heroic victories with HAs vs. a EI horde.

Dutch_guy
07-09-2005, 11:44
well the pontic route is easier than the Parthian route ( due to their lack of tanks ) , however I find it unpractical since you know you're going to get backstabbed by the Parthians , sometimes as early as turn 2.
And losing your 2 major citys while campaigning in Pontus isn't a good thing, and that is not helped by the fact that you will -definitely in the early game - not be able to field multible army's, at least in my experience ~;)

:balloon2:

Taurus
07-09-2005, 12:22
Thanks for the feedback guys, but what you say about Parthia stabbing me in the back still hasn't happened yet and I am quite a way through my campaign. I must be lucky.

Thanks, ~:)
- Vip3r Warrior

Dutch_guy
07-09-2005, 19:50
In my games they usually go right for me, never accepting aliances , teaming up agaisnt me even with the SE and stuff like that.

Well it's good to hear they haven't done that in your campaign ( yet ) - always beware the tretcherous Partians though ~:)
However since you're far in your camp. you should think about getting rid of them yourself, you know ; the best defence is attacking ( or something like that ;) )

good luck in your campaign ~:cheers:

:balloon2:

Taurus
07-10-2005, 11:40
Thanks Dutch guy ~:)
Once I have finished dealing with Egypt I will definatly set myself on destroying Parthia.


you know ; the best defence is attacking ( or something like that ;) )

The best defence is a good offence, ~;)

Once again, thanks ~:cheers:

Deus ret.
07-10-2005, 20:18
Vip3r,
I had this one with pez already. He did it the way you did, with a quick annihilation of Pontus and a move into the more profitable regions of Asia Minor, essentially taking over their role. The approach is not bad, although it has some downsides.

First, Pontus fields an EI-heavy army even in the mid-game. This makes them much more easy to beat than the Parthians whose cavalry is not really inferior to yours; in addition, your home provinces remain defensible during your war with the Parthians. Which will be tough but you'll be better off afterwards. Just keep a general and a few HAs back to counter Pontus. Remember, your goal is not a quick victory, it is annihilation of the enemy, even if it takes a couple of battles against the same army.
To defend against HAs properly (let alone the two Parthian menaces, the catas) you need -- either more HAs, decent cav or foot archers. None of which are at your disposal in the beginning.

Secondly, the strike against Pontus only works if Egypt occupies the SE and thus keeps your back free. Admittedly they do most of the time, although in my game the SE were the Eggy's protectorate. Waging war against Pontus at such a point would leave you unprotected on all sides, with your only hope being either the provinces you capture or the AI's retardedness.

Thirdly, since the Egyptians have to be annihilated asap to secure your existence on the long run, an elimination of Southern Parthia will put you in an excellent stategic position to reach them sooner. The Parthians' catas, if you manage to bribe them, will also be of great help. If you rely on the SE as a buffer instead of taking them out on the way to Egypt, they will be absorbed by the Eggies rather sooner than later who'll be even richer and mightier when you face them. I know some people like a challenge but slaughtering your way through overpowered Eggy stacks is not really fun. Especially if they mass produce their 4th level units, in which case it's likely that you will get slaughtered. In my game, I was happy since they fielded their first two Pharaonic bowmen only when I attacked their final city, Thebes.

Taking out Pontus later is a cakewalk. You have the land, you have the money.

pezhetairoi
07-20-2005, 04:14
Here's pez, issuing a call to all RTW players... Who wants to do an Armenia live campaign discussion on this thread like happened on the Scythia thread so long ago? I'm planning to start on Armenia in a week or two after I finish my 50 provinces of Macedon, and I figure a live play commentary would be very useful as an addition to this guide... Franc? Ilia?

IliaDN
07-20-2005, 05:38
Hi, Pez. I am afraid, that I won't participate ... for now.
I decided to give RTW a break till BI.
P.S. What about brit challenge?

pezhetairoi
07-20-2005, 05:56
no thanks on the Brit challenge, remember I can't play with the no-bribing rule? ;-)

Franconicus
07-20-2005, 06:44
Sorry Pez,
I am stuck im the middle of my Sel campaign. But I still remember the good old days in Scythia and I think we should try to start a common game at least when the BI is released. ~:cheers:

pezhetairoi
07-20-2005, 06:52
Sorry Franc, but I won't be buying BI... I'd rather wait for EB, and save the money...

But yes, common game :) PM me when you're done with beating up the Eggys. :)

IliaDN
07-20-2005, 07:38
no thanks on the Brit challenge, remember I can't play with the no-bribing rule? ;-)
I mean how it ended?

Franconicus
07-20-2005, 08:54
Sorry Franc, but I won't be buying BI... :no:
Can you imagine what will happen if the BI is released? All the veterans and all the rookies will start to play simulatneously. There will be fights, competitions, studies, stories .... Man, don't miss that party!
~:cheers: :juggle2: :balloon2: :yes: :party3: :joker: :guitarist: :afro: :hair2: :drummer: :balloon3: :balloon3: :gorgeous: :medievalcheers: :barrel:

Franconicus
07-20-2005, 08:56
I mean how it ended?
Well, everyone quit the game so I guess I won!
There is a post in the Britannia thread

Craterus
07-20-2005, 18:37
I'm up for an Armenia mass Guildian (Guild members) campaign.

pezhetairoi
07-21-2005, 00:20
yummy. That makes a two-man mass-Guild campaign! ^_^

Craterus
07-26-2005, 19:27
Ok, well I'm going to start my campaign as soon as I've finished Macedon. Hopefully by Friday. I've got Mundus Magnus and that's a huge map so it should make the game a little more exciting. There's some new mercs around Armenia, I think.

SpawnOfEbil
07-26-2005, 21:40
Well, on Vanilla Rome, I started off by beating the Parthians to Phrapasaa, then taking Arsakia. This got me quite a lot of money.

Then, I sat back and developed my infrastructure, and then after training some cat archers, took Hatra and Seleucia in the same turn.

This will get you a ton of money.

Now I'm at the stage after that. Not sure where to expand to. I'm considering Egypt, but from my past battles with the Eggies as Parthia I don't really want to take on their chariots. The alternative, Pontus, also use chariots, so not much of a choice.

pezhetairoi
07-27-2005, 00:27
I beat the Parthians to Phraaspa, AND attacked Sinope. Got trashed at Sinope because I was hopelessly outnumbered, but managed to bring my army off the field safely. Came back with a vengeance to get revenge, and crushed the Pontic field armies, besieged their two settlements, and destroyed Pontus next turn. After that I built up a new army in the east and took out Arsakia and Susa. Meanwhile in the west I took Nicomedia, Ancyra and Pergamum. The western army then went on a little joyride into the Crimea to take Chersonesos while I built up cat archer capability in Sinope. Did I mention I managed to bribe the Parthians' two cat units before taking Arsakia? Their AP maces are wonderful against generals...

I have begun war with Seleucids and take Sardis in the west and Seleucia in the east. Chariots were nothing dangerous IMHO although I faced them both against the Sleucids and the Pontics. I just kept out of range and kept shooting. But I agree Egypt's chariots have that much more to fear because they can return fire, and because they have three men on each chariot instead of one. But, still.

I have a third army building up for the steppes because in my capture of Chersonesos I began war with Scythia, which came back with a vengeance the way I did with Pontus to retake Chersonesos. That army will head east for Sakae and Themiskyra after annihilating Scythia.

I've begun diplomatic erosion of Egypt's armies. Since I am in possession of the East and building trade caravans like mad, I am making tons of d. The Parthians are left with Dumatha and Campus Sakae, the Seleucids are left with Tarsus and Hatra, with the latter about to be taken by the Egyptians. However, Tarsus has a very large army, so I'll wait for Egypt to take it before I take down Egypt.

gardibolt
07-27-2005, 18:50
Did you reinstall your 1.2, pez? You seemed to think your bribery was still working like under 1.0 (which is not all bad, I say).

pezhetairoi
07-28-2005, 00:51
I've tried, but it doesn't work. I even went to the registry and checked that the RTW version was 1.0 (It was.) But no matter what I do the comp tells me RTW has already been updated, which is SO OBVIOUSLY is not. I don't understand any more o_o

Craterus
07-29-2005, 01:58
Littlegannon had the same problem as you (computer sayin 1.2 was installed when it isn't). I'll tell him to post how he fixed it.

pezhetairoi
07-29-2005, 07:19
that would be most appreciated, Craterus. Maybe for once my diplomats will atrophy and wither and I won't be so tempted to use them after this...

I'll say one thing, though. Armenia is shaping up to be by far the slowest campaign I've played so far. Turn 55 and I have only 16 provinces. Normally by now I already have 30-40.

Craterus
07-30-2005, 00:24
So... I started this campaign today and I've gotten off to an ok start. It's annoying having only one army because if you were to split it, it would be decimated by rebels that surround Armenia. I'll post a picture of the Mundus Magnus map so you can see the starting situation of Armenia..

So, I've taken the rebel provinces surrounding my original (and only) starting city. I now own, basically, the same land (but split into littler provinces) you start with. It is 268 BC and I'm sieging Phraaspa and it will be the 3rd town that I take.

It's not long till I can build Cat Archers and Heavy Spearman so that should speed up the conquering process. A major problem I'm having is sieges. Eastern Infantry just cannot take a wall (some rebel towns have stone walls with MM) unless they are used in excess. As I take provinces, I am leaving one Eastern Infantry behind to garrison the newly taken city. I have now run out of Eastern Infantry units (except one depleted unit). I am using my capital to build horse archers, useful units, instead EI because they are more effective. Sieges are also becoming a strain on my generals. I have to use generals because the rebel EI are superior to my own. They have 3 bronze chevrons, bronze defence upgrades, and bronze weapon upgrades. I use my generals cav (after peppering units with HA fire) to rout the *pimped* EI.

So, it looks as though I'll have to wait out the next siege.

pezhetairoi
08-01-2005, 00:58
Ah...Mundus is obviously very different from Armenia, where if you're forced to you can still create two directions of expansion.

Craterus
08-01-2005, 01:51
On Mundus, the map goes as far as India.

The Seleucids holding most of this area. Unfortunately, they can't quite support the empire (I've had a look around without fow) and they have 2-unit armies running about the place. They're cities are garrisoned by 1 or 2 units so it looks like easy pickings.

When I'm done with the rebels, I'm going to carve a big hole in the middle of the Seleucid Empire, and then send an army west, and an army east.

I haven't quite planned my journey to Rome. It will definitely be a long and gruelling one with the amount of provinces that I'm going to have to get through.


EDIT: Unfortunately, I can't get a direct link to the map, so you'll have to look at thumbnails via Google. If you look closely, you can make out the region of Armenia (above that massive grey chunk that is the Seleucid Empire). Link to Google (http://images.google.com/images?q=Mundus+Magnus+Map&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en&start=0&sa=N&filter=0)

I can't post the version of the map that comes with install because it would distort the board.

jacked
08-01-2005, 03:59
I forgot,but in MM how many provinces does the Selucids have. ~:confused:

Craterus
08-01-2005, 14:41
I'll count, this could take a while.
I suppose you could just hold the original provinces (if there's 50), make a navy and sail some full stacks over to take Rome.

EDIT: It's only 25 or so provinces, so you need a bit more wrk. And the real challenge of this campaign is holding your original area.

pezhetairoi
08-02-2005, 01:21
Craterus, what news from littlegannon about the 1.2 patch issue?

Craterus
08-03-2005, 02:08
GAH! He hasn't posted, but I did tell him to.

Right, from what I know, you have to delete the registry (?) files of 1.2 . But that's all I know. If it doesn't work, I have no other ideas.

pezhetairoi
08-03-2005, 02:13
O_o That sounds incredibly dangerous.

Elephant
08-04-2005, 03:17
Okay, this is just unbelievable!

I sent a lone unit of Cataphract Archers against a Rebel army just the other day, and it consisted of one Pontic Heavy Cavalry (General's Unit), one Archer, and two EIs.

I walked my C. Archers to get close enough to the archers and used loose formation to start shooting. Yet, those damn arrows were able to kill 2 of my guys per volley! ARGHHH!!

I don't understand, how can Missile Damage of 7 go through 22 points of Defense? Am I missing something?

(In case anyone want to know how the battle went, I diminished half their Archers, shot 20 EIs to death which were pursuing me, and melee'd their General to death before retreating. I only had 20 guys left after that! Retraining at Sinope shall cost me 781 denarii! Marvelous! :rolleyes2: )

pezhetairoi
08-05-2005, 00:55
...the C Archers have no shield, and their defense skill is 1, if I recall correctly. Either that, or the archers had experience and weapon upgrades.

crazybastard
08-05-2005, 01:03
When is BI coming out?
Very anxious about it
I wanted to tear up Rome and trample their pathetic Roman faces with mighty Huns (or other barbarians) SOOOOOOOO baaaadly.

pezhetairoi
08-05-2005, 02:07
....this question is best asked on the COlosseum. The Armenia thread is absolutely the wrong place for this, and I don't know anyway.

Deus ret.
08-05-2005, 12:46
I don't understand, how can Missile Damage of 7 go through 22 points of Defense? Am I missing something?


Another possibility could be that your CAs -like all HAs- make for rather large targets, thus enabling to archers to bring their missiles into effect better. I had similar experiences, when I played Armenia I quickly learned not to engage in a missile duel with foot archers as long as I wanted to keep the CAs. Try to circumvent the enemy and kill the archers in close combat: that works better.

Elephant
08-05-2005, 19:24
Another possibility could be that your CAs -like all HAs- make for rather large targets, thus enabling to archers to bring their missiles into effect better. I had similar experiences, when I played Armenia I quickly learned not to engage in a missile duel with foot archers as long as I wanted to keep the CAs. Try to circumvent the enemy and kill the archers in close combat: that works better.

Hmm, I think that would be hard when they have phalanges or other spearmen guarding it. It seems incredibly hard to bait foot archers, especially when you are the attacker. All the AI has to do is wait the battle out and watch you lose.

Any advice on diversing enemy troops as Armenia? And how will I deal with Seleucid and Egyptian chariots?? ~:confused:

Conqueror
08-05-2005, 22:38
Hey Craterus, I'm playing a MM Armenian campaign too ~:cheers:

I'm on to 175 BC already and my great Armenian empire runs from Greece almost to India. I own Asia Minor, most land from the Caspian to the Persian Gulf and the eastern med islands and most of Greece. Maccies are camped in Corinth and I'm trying to get them to accept protectorateship, but the bastards won't give up even if I offer all of Greece, their islands, most of my treasury (I got ~200,000, was over 300,000 at best) and 20,000+ tribute per turn for 50 turns! I literally saved them from being annihilated by the Brutii, but they won't play nice and be a good little buffer state for me :wall:

The start of the game was easy, taking rebel cities in the first few turns isn't too hard when you buy some mercenaries and beat the rebels when they sally out. Pontus is a real pushover since they just love to mass Eastern Infantry. Taking Asia Minor put me in war with Greeks (annihilated by other factions very soon) and Ptolemies (major PITA. They attacked me and kept sending more and more units untill I took all of their Asia Minor provinces + Cyprus). Sarmatians were hanging around near my homelands looking like they were up to something stupid, but I kept enough troops near border that they never dared to attack me.

The biggest conflict in MM is with Seleucids. They start huge and with lots of resources. Not to mention that they made alliance with Ptolemies and it's lasted up to this day. They still have the Middle East from Antioch to Seleukia (because I let them have it), and two provinces in the far east that are surrounded from all sides now. It's been extremely slow progress conquering all their eastern lands. This is because distance to capital penalties get HUGE (and I'm not moving my capital) and because I play with self-imposed honor rules to not recruit units other than peasants untill a settlement is properly converted to my faction.

I made alliance with Parthians and they haven't backstabbed me yet. They haven't attacked Seleucids at all, even after their eastern provinces became isolated. They've been at wars with Sarmatians. Speaking of whom, are now pushed back by the immensely powerful Brutii. Those greenie romans have like a million man army.

As I mentioned earlier, I stepped in to save the Maccies from Brutes. That put me in war with Ptolemies, Seleucids, all of the Romans at once. The Romans are also at war with Seleucids and Ptolemies. And all these factions are hugely powerful (well, not the Seleucids anymore). It's a real clash of Titans! Basically the only neighbouring faction that isn't out to kill me yet is Parthia. The Brutii keep sending full stacks to strike my homelands, they march through Sarmatian lands unopposed. But I have stacks with Heavy Spearmen and archers and onagers at the bridges stopping them. Many roman full stacks have been completely annihilated (the bug where they rout to my side of bridge and so get absolutely destroyed trying to run through my phalanx) but more just keep coming. They also attack the greek cities I'm holding but I beat them easily in sally battles. Ptolemies sometimes attack me in southern Persian coast but I can keep them in check.

I am now just clearing the far east from Seleucid pockets of resistance. Once I'm done there, I will take the Middle East except Antioch. Then we'll see whether the Maccies or Seleucids will accept protectorateship first. The one that accepts gets Middle East and Greece, the other one gets wiped out. If I manage to get a protectorate then I'll focus on getting India and other eastern provinces, maybe kick the Parthians if they decide to challenge me. Then I'll give those Ptolemies a beating they will remember.

One thing that's annoying me in this campaign is that most of my cities won't grow up to Large size unless I lower taxes to minimum and they won't Reach Huge size unless I move in peasants and disband them. Armenia really could use a health/population boost temple. It doesn't help that most of my governors get the sucky "geomancer" retinue that decreases population growth :thumbsdown:

Deus ret.
08-06-2005, 01:16
Hmm, I think that would be hard when they have phalanges or other spearmen guarding it. It seems incredibly hard to bait foot archers, especially when you are the attacker. All the AI has to do is wait the battle out and watch you lose.

Any advice on diversing enemy troops as Armenia? And how will I deal with Seleucid and Egyptian chariots?? ~:confused:

I read your first post again and....of course you need more than just one unit. Attacking an army containing archers etc. with just one CA is tough. It takes another cav to distract them...if you fight anyway, I found it helpful to charge into the flank of a guarding infantry unit (quite often those fools won't turn) which provides a cover against the archers if you manage it right. Fight on until the other guarding units join the fight, then pull out and get those archers.
Of course the applicability of such a move is heavily influenced by terrain, fatigue etc. I'd opt for using an additional unit in the attack.

As for those chariots: Yes, they are nasty. If you go up this thread a little you will find my own cry for support....anyway, keep your cav away from them at all costs. They will get mown down no matter if the chariots fight, move or rout. Instead, steer clear and pepper them with whatever missiles you have. Peltasts get a bonus vs., archers can use flaming arrows to make them run amok and slingers are reasonably accurate vs. chariots.
When I found myself in the situation I even humbled myself by recruiting Eastern inf or mercs as cannon fodder resp. chariot-binders....as soon as you have heavy spearmen, things will get better. Simply let them get charged by the chariots - they will rout subsequently if there are not too many of them.

Elephant
08-06-2005, 05:40
I read your first post again and....of course you need more than just one unit. Attacking an army containing archers etc. with just one CA is tough. It takes another cav to distract them...if you fight anyway, I found it helpful to charge into the flank of a guarding infantry unit (quite often those fools won't turn) which provides a cover against the archers if you manage it right. Fight on until the other guarding units join the fight, then pull out and get those archers.
Of course the applicability of such a move is heavily influenced by terrain, fatigue etc. I'd opt for using an additional unit in the attack.

As for those chariots: Yes, they are nasty. If you go up this thread a little you will find my own cry for support....anyway, keep your cav away from them at all costs. They will get mown down no matter if the chariots fight, move or rout. Instead, steer clear and pepper them with whatever missiles you have. Peltasts get a bonus vs., archers can use flaming arrows to make them run amok and slingers are reasonably accurate vs. chariots.
When I found myself in the situation I even humbled myself by recruiting Eastern inf or mercs as cannon fodder resp. chariot-binders....as soon as you have heavy spearmen, things will get better. Simply let them get charged by the chariots - they will rout subsequently if there are not too many of them.

Thank you for your advice. That Armour Piercing attack of chariots is just despicable for all cavalry armies...

Looks like I will have to throw in some infantry units, despite getting slowed down on the campaign map... *sigh*. Hope those heavy spearmen are worth the trouble, I am just beginning to build those Militia Barracks! ~;)

Deus ret.
08-06-2005, 13:57
At 7/6/17 (Att/Ch/Def) they definitely are. Plus some armour/exp upgrade you might be able to apply....as long as the enemy has chariots, they will serve you very well. As soon as Pontics, Seleucids and Eggies are wiped out, again nothing will be able to withstand your all-cav armies....

pezhetairoi
08-08-2005, 03:24
On chariots: if they are only about 1-2 units in each army (as they usually are) and there are few others, detail three HA units to each chariot unit and make them chase you around and around. When they are tired, very tired or exhausted, they will run amok, upon which you can easily shoot them to bits. While you're at it making them chase you around, shoot them to bits anyway. In desperate situations when you've been chased to the border, don't hesitate to charge them. You don't have any other choice. All 3 units at once should mercifully shorten the slaughter. Surely, you'll be left with at most 50-60 per unit more often less, but better than not having any charge bonus. For Eggy generals and any chariot archers, just chase them. They have skirmish mode, so they'll run -away- from you, meaning you can concentrate superior weight of fire on them while they just keep running away from you and refraining from armour-piercing contact. Only standard Scythed and Heavy chariotry should worry you.

Elephant
08-08-2005, 16:41
On chariots: if they are only about 1-2 units in each army (as they usually are) and there are few others, detail three HA units to each chariot unit and make them chase you around and around. When they are tired, very tired or exhausted, they will run amok, upon which you can easily shoot them to bits. While you're at it making them chase you around, shoot them to bits anyway. In desperate situations when you've been chased to the border, don't hesitate to charge them. You don't have any other choice. All 3 units at once should mercifully shorten the slaughter. Surely, you'll be left with at most 50-60 per unit more often less, but better than not having any charge bonus. For Eggy generals and any chariot archers, just chase them. They have skirmish mode, so they'll run -away- from you, meaning you can concentrate superior weight of fire on them while they just keep running away from you and refraining from armour-piercing contact. Only standard Scythed and Heavy chariotry should worry you.

Aha! Thanks to your insights, now I know how to use the rest of my outdated Horse Archers that I have been replacing with Cat. Archers.

But, wouldn't retreating fast targets behind Heavy Spearmen work better? Unless, Scythed and Heavy chariots can go through a phalanx...

LestaT
08-18-2005, 11:55
I'm about to start Armenia in 5.41 . Any ideas which directions I should go first ? East , west or south ? North is not an option I believe (even during vanilla days).

Seleucid is ally at the start but I don't believe in pre-starting allies in RTR. had that experience as macedon where I have been besiege by my 'allies' in the first turn . (Greeks & Epirus)

FYI I'm playing RTR 5.41 + TCB mini mod

Cheers !!

Deus ret.
08-18-2005, 16:27
No idea about TCB, but concerning the faction you've made a tough choice. At least in RTR....

The Seleucids are not likely to attack you soon. Their armies are elsewhere and well occupied. Thus, get trade rights from them and leave them alone for now.

Pontus is more important, and richer than you are. These nasty little notgoodformuches will go after you rather sooner than later, mainly with crappy infantry though. At least in my experience. Consequently, wipe them off the map and establish yourself as the aspirant for domination of Asia minor in their place. Conquering the rest of today's Turkey will be your main task then; it's also the first step towards weakening the Ptolemaics. If possible, become the #1 black sea naval power and establish footholds around it. Sea trade will benefit greatly.

(Pez, I know well that you will rejoice now that I've recommended your expansion route..for RTR, I indeed found it to be much more worthwhile than my own approach because the map's border is way further to the east, eliminating the strategic advantage which an early elimination of Parthia provided...cheers nonetheless!)

Okay, now for the Parthians. Their army is very much like yours, except for their crappier infantry. This, as well as their proximity, means that they soon will be a threat to you. Fight them off as well as you can and don't worry if you lose one or two cities. As soon as Asia Minor is conquered, you are in an excellent position to push them back and eliminate them if the situation allows.

If not, or if they don't attack, it is high time to take care of the Ptolemaics. They'll likely have brought the Seleucids into considerable trouble by now. So, make your way towards the Ptols and take whatever Seleucid territory is in your way. I guess the best and most profitable route to take is down the levante (Antioch etc), thereby minimizing your borders. Alternatively, seek an alliance with the SE w/ military access, but they're not very prone to grant it.
In any case, as soon as you have yellow stacks in front of you attack and don't relent until you've reached the Nile valley. You can also relieve your levante armies by the notorious amphibious assault on the Nile delta.
Bringing the Ptols to their knees may well take a while, considering the level of development they should have reached by now. Don't despond, at least your armies and generals will be of the finest quality thereafter.

Of course, don't neglect your other fronts during the operation but you should be capable of sustaining several decently-sized armies by now. Once Egypt is yours, consolidate, re-arrange your borders and take on whomever you want...few factions will be able to stand in your way now that you own one of the richest areas on the map.

The initial decision is basically one of going East or West. Turning southward isn't worthwhile since it will stretch your borders further than necessary, leaving your flanks even more open for an attack from Pontus or the Parthians. Turning eastward is not the best option, too, because the Parthian's lands are poor, and in contrast to vanilla RTW taking them won't improve your strategic position at all. Thus, head westwards and go for Pontus! Taking care of them early in the game also prevents them from building chariots en masse which are a real threat to your cavalry-heavy armies.

Hope this is of some help. :bow:

Craterus
08-19-2005, 00:29
Hey Craterus, I'm playing a MM Armenian campaign too ~:cheers:

I'm on to 175 BC already and my great Armenian empire runs from Greece almost to India. I own Asia Minor, most land from the Caspian to the Persian Gulf and the eastern med islands and most of Greece. Maccies are camped in Corinth and I'm trying to get them to accept protectorateship, but the bastards won't give up even if I offer all of Greece, their islands, most of my treasury (I got ~200,000, was over 300,000 at best) and 20,000+ tribute per turn for 50 turns! I literally saved them from being annihilated by the Brutii, but they won't play nice and be a good little buffer state for me :wall:

The start of the game was easy, taking rebel cities in the first few turns isn't too hard when you buy some mercenaries and beat the rebels when they sally out. Pontus is a real pushover since they just love to mass Eastern Infantry. Taking Asia Minor put me in war with Greeks (annihilated by other factions very soon) and Ptolemies (major PITA. They attacked me and kept sending more and more units untill I took all of their Asia Minor provinces + Cyprus). Sarmatians were hanging around near my homelands looking like they were up to something stupid, but I kept enough troops near border that they never dared to attack me.

The biggest conflict in MM is with Seleucids. They start huge and with lots of resources. Not to mention that they made alliance with Ptolemies and it's lasted up to this day. They still have the Middle East from Antioch to Seleukia (because I let them have it), and two provinces in the far east that are surrounded from all sides now. It's been extremely slow progress conquering all their eastern lands. This is because distance to capital penalties get HUGE (and I'm not moving my capital) and because I play with self-imposed honor rules to not recruit units other than peasants untill a settlement is properly converted to my faction.

I made alliance with Parthians and they haven't backstabbed me yet. They haven't attacked Seleucids at all, even after their eastern provinces became isolated. They've been at wars with Sarmatians. Speaking of whom, are now pushed back by the immensely powerful Brutii. Those greenie romans have like a million man army.

As I mentioned earlier, I stepped in to save the Maccies from Brutes. That put me in war with Ptolemies, Seleucids, all of the Romans at once. The Romans are also at war with Seleucids and Ptolemies. And all these factions are hugely powerful (well, not the Seleucids anymore). It's a real clash of Titans! Basically the only neighbouring faction that isn't out to kill me yet is Parthia. The Brutii keep sending full stacks to strike my homelands, they march through Sarmatian lands unopposed. But I have stacks with Heavy Spearmen and archers and onagers at the bridges stopping them. Many roman full stacks have been completely annihilated (the bug where they rout to my side of bridge and so get absolutely destroyed trying to run through my phalanx) but more just keep coming. They also attack the greek cities I'm holding but I beat them easily in sally battles. Ptolemies sometimes attack me in southern Persian coast but I can keep them in check.

I am now just clearing the far east from Seleucid pockets of resistance. Once I'm done there, I will take the Middle East except Antioch. Then we'll see whether the Maccies or Seleucids will accept protectorateship first. The one that accepts gets Middle East and Greece, the other one gets wiped out. If I manage to get a protectorate then I'll focus on getting India and other eastern provinces, maybe kick the Parthians if they decide to challenge me. Then I'll give those Ptolemies a beating they will remember.

One thing that's annoying me in this campaign is that most of my cities won't grow up to Large size unless I lower taxes to minimum and they won't Reach Huge size unless I move in peasants and disband them. Armenia really could use a health/population boost temple. It doesn't help that most of my governors get the sucky "geomancer" retinue that decreases population growth :thumbsdown:

You are a lot further into your game than I am. I'm about to knock out Pontus, and then I'm going to have to beat back the Seleucids. I'm up to about 250 BC at the latest, but I'm pretty sure it's earlier than that.

Well, I got back from holiday yesterday night and haven't played on RTW since I got back. I have a lot to do tomorrow too, so no RTW play for a while. You will finish this campaign before I do.

LestaT
08-19-2005, 04:32
TCB 2.0 Time Comander minimod I think. Nothing changes much except that can only built ships on provinces that got log/wood resources. One more thing Cretan archer buildable in sparta , athens ect.

To late for the advice because Seleucid attack me even though they're besieged by small Pontus and mighty Ptolemaic all over. It's 10 years into the campaign now , I only add 2 provinces to my original 4 on Seleucid expence with my original starting army. Haven't been able to retrain because only now can balance the check book.

I survive mainly because of my travelling salesman (in RTR the most I can get for a map is 1000 , no more 10000 like in vanilla).

Anyway back to the strategy, I guess the the only course now is Seleucid, their large fragile empire is waiting to be exploit and their phalanx are easy target practise for my HA.

Skott
08-24-2005, 20:01
Yeah, I find it very hard to get more than 1000 denari for map info as well. It can be done but its not easy nor often. 1000 is pretty much the best you can do except in certain cases. I did get 500 denari for 9 turns offer once which I promptly accepted but it was with an ally. I think it was just blind luck on my part to get that deal.

You could use the add_money cheat but that is cheating and many dont like using it. In 5.4.1 I think the most is 40,000 you can get at one time using the money cheat.

LestaT
08-25-2005, 06:16
Had to restart armenian campaign. I definately cannot go south. Still need the trade with Seleucid and Ptolemaic. While my army is having a good time in picking on cities in the south , Pontus decided they don't need my alliance anymore and attack my 3 cities in the north. None are defended , only had a governor in each of the city.

Too bad.

Now I restarted the campaign and in the second turn sacked the nearest Pontus town (as a revenge from past life).

After todays working day I'm gonna have a big (probably decisive) battle with a full stack Pontus army led by faction leader and heir with my half stack mainly HA.

We'll see.

Cheers !!!

(This eventually kick back my Germania campaign to later date)

Craterus
08-25-2005, 12:34
Since your final goal is Rome, I think the wisest thing to do is go west. And take the rich area of Asia Minor. I am getting 9k a turn and I own the northern half of Asia Minor (playing MM, so there are more cities/provinces).

Unfortunately, Seleucids are looking to break the alliance as they keep heading for my home provinces. I've sorted out some forts to put them off, but the forts are easy to walk around. I cancelled my alliance with them so as not to get a bad reputation in case they attack me. I also have all my cat archers and heavy spearmen near the original provinces because that's the only place I can build them.

In the west, my next target is Pergamum, but Egypt look to be going for this too, as well as Ancyra which is heavily defended by barbarian (Gallic units) because the Celts settled in Asia Minor and that is their stronghold. I think Egypt will take Ancyra, then head for Pergamum and my other provinces because their main target is to get the entirity of Asia Minor. For some reason, they haven't gone for Seleucid provinces, even though most are poorly defended. With Mundus Magnus, Seleucids don't have enough men to defend their empire.

Taurus
09-03-2005, 17:46
I havn't had much time for my campaigns since I became addicted to mulitplayer but I recently started another Armenian campaign. I havn't made much headway because of mp but I have made an Alliance with Pontus and am currently waging war against the Seleucids. After this I plan on taking Egypt or Parthia.
I have also grown a lot closer to horse archers which I use very often to wittle down the Seleucid pikemen. However, all looks to be going well as I plan to move south but I may even try and go north first attacking Scythia to see how the campaign fares.

Thanks

Craterus
09-03-2005, 18:02
Playing MM, Seleucids are a little too large to take on but my war with them is inevitable. I haven't played my game for a long time, but hopefully I'll get to play some tomorrow. I just knocked out Pontus and own the Northern half of Asia Minor. Seleucids are coming for me and my main field army is at Pergamum.

I think I will take a few generals from that army and send them up to the original provinces and defend from Seleucids. So far, I've only used one army, and basically sweeped across Asia Minor. Recruiting Eastern mercenaries and Peasants for garrisons, but this is a great campaign so far.

Taurus
09-04-2005, 12:07
Yeah cool. I realised the Seleucids are quite difficult to fight straight from the word go so that's why I thought I'd ally with Pontus in the hope that they would wear down or at least distract the Seleucids which at the minute they seem to be doing. This means that I can forget about their Western forces and conquer their Eastern provinces, or so I hope.

But we will see how it progesses.

btw, playing Battle Difficulty - Medium, Campaign Difficulty - Hard.

pezhetairoi
10-28-2005, 03:01
I was thinking, as long as you bankrupted yourself queuing HA at the very start of the campaign, you would have enough troops to push all the way to Seleucia and east. Expansion to the Caucasus is good, but Pontus is still by far the best. Armenia seems to be economically screwed. I.E. You will run up monstrous debt, but there seems to be very little choice otherwise.

My alternative strategy (only a bad commander has only one plan) is to strike Seleukeia. They have 3 armoured elephants in Antioch so don't go that way until you're absolutely sure that they have vacated the city. Usually the elephants disappear by turn 40 on some campaign or another so Antioch (and its commerce, etc) will be open to you. The east in Seleukeia is really worth taking, because despite its low population, it is open and numerous. It is harder for Seleukid armies to catch you there, and their garrisons are pathetic. (On the lines of 2 militia hoplites, or one). So you could abandon Armenia completely and transfer operations south, preferably taking out Parthia on the way. Sorta cutting a swath of destruction. But make sure your scout precedes you to scout out cities with 2000 population or more so you can build stables there and retrain (not that you'd have any money to do so, but.)

Okay I'm not making any sense. That's all I'll say till I go past turn 20 on my Armenia MM (shelved) campaign.

Kickius Buttius
12-07-2005, 19:03
Quick story to share:

I started an H/H game as Armenia, with the intention of relocating the entire faction to a different part of the map for a little extra challenge. I built a port and then a fleet right away, while moving all of my family and army units to the coast. I built peasants in numbers sufficient to prevent rebellion in each town.

The plan was to board the ships, sail to Kydonia and take that city. I would then make Kydonia my capitol and take Cyrene (spelling?) and Lepcis Magna. Immediately after taking Kydonia, I would destroy all buildings in the original two Armenia cities and disband the peasants- allowing them to revolt. I would then play from the new location.

Worked like a charm, except for the fact that my fleet, which contained every family member and army unit that I had, was sunk by pirates the turn after setting sail. Game over.

Oops.

Tenaka_Khan
12-20-2005, 23:51
I had a couple of tries at VH/VH in RTW 1.3.

Armenia starts in a difficult position in that you are isolated and your 2 settlements are small with little $. I found the best way to start was to first block the southern valley (make sure you build on Armenian land) with a fort to stop Pontics coming from your Sth/Wst and I built a fort in the North just in case Scythia came calling. While 500 denarii is expensive it gave me valuable time in the begining.

I then sent 2 diplomats ASAP to Pontics and seluciads for trade/alliance. In previous VH/VH games they had being too powerful in the begining hitting me early with large stacks that I couldn't deal with.

Economy wise everything was at very high as these starting towns are too slow in growing to worry about increasing population.

Then I started building Horse Archers, like all the other posts above they are the backbone of the Armenian army in the early stages. As soon as I had 3-4 I took them and my leader and cataphracts and headed east taking the Rebel city very early, it still had no walls. At the same time I had sent a couple of spies to the Parthian city on the eastern border of the map. My Army then continued on, boosted by some more horse archers and hit the parthian town sacking it and pumping out more HA. Then I headed south, already at this time Pontics and Seluciads are walking around with several full stack armies (in my game no one was fighting early on, the seluciads and Egyptians never went to war, likewise the Pontics and the Seluciads). I did ally with the Greeks and Thracians in a attempt to squeeze Pontic but it never happended.

As I was heading South both the Seluciads and Pontics betrayed and jumped me. While Pontus was besieging my fort I had a second stack been produced in my original capital, my first stack headed south to Selucia steamrolloing anything in its path. Using a spy again I sacked Selucia, you need this money to keep pumping out HA and some armour upgrades. Use Selucia as Southern protection against both Parthia and Seluciads (plus increase farm income). If your spy doesn't open the gates make sure you hire a couple of Eastern inf or whatever to man the rams. If you can have a assassin trying to kill the generals it helps in battles where VH setting.

The reason this plan can work is that the HA take little/no casualties in battle. They will basically avoid other troops on skirmish, you just have to make sure you target troops that can hurt them at the start of the battle. I always went after militia calvary, peltasts, slingers etc, you may have to micro manage as the HA often let these guys get into range. You will also rely heavily on your generals/cataphrats to save the day where a fast pursuer is chasing them. This early in the game there is not that many archers/chariots so they're not so much of an issue.

I used selucia as a base hitting any lurking stacks then retreating back to castle to retrain. I agree with earlier posts that Armenians must live to fight another day in many battles, especially as your arrows run out. I don't see this as cheating the AI but rather accuratley reflecting what a HA would do e.g. turn tail once the arrows are gone. This is the strategy you use for defending your cities. Wait to be besieged then sally, kill militia calvary slingers etc then soldiers. Once arrows gone retreat into castle till battle ends (make sure start game settings have battle time limit on). Then if the attack next turn you sally forth again. Armenia have to whittle away at the enemy, this was difficult for me as in the past I have favoured the greek factions which I based the standard hoplites, archers, calvary support where only cowards did a runner. Armenia is HA and HA hit and run!

Eventually my Southern army was strong enough to attack the next Seluciads town sacking it. I then took Parthia town so I now had 4 cities in the mountains and 3 in the North of the desert. HA were coming thick and fast and even had money to hire desert/camal cav in south and samrtian/barbarian cav in north.

I kept Pontus from my Northern border with an army in the North and then rampaged in the south taking all the selcuiads and then into Egypt and Asia Minor fighting on 2 fronts. Money is now pouring in especially with spice roads in cities. Focus building trade buildings with only a stable for HA in cities to build/retrain.

HA are still the basis of my army, I am fighting the greeks and HA are making mincemeat out of the hoplites, HA are all now gold chevron with gold weapons and silver armour (Make sure you get antioch with its temple intact for silver upgrades and then Rhodes for the archer gold upgrade). I'm not to keen on cataphract archers as they use their arrows up too quickly. My basic army is still HA, Generals and some decent cataphracts thrown in (now that I can afford them).

To deal with archers/archer chariots I use the cantabrian circle and set HA to loose formation, these are my "whirling circles of death" and are quite effective with armies with several archer units (just be careful of obstacles or calvary/chariot charges), target their archers, if you can hit their archers with your heavy cav/general all the better (just get him out before there infantry/cav attack). If a unit chases a HA send a couple to pursue that unit from behind, in no time they will be fleeing due to the casualties (most of the time... I have lost some of my veteran HA to quick moving chariots as my support as too slow in arriving).

Flanking with archers is also very effective. I send 3 units around the flanks, as the HA can shoot and move even if the enemy sends out chasers they just skirmish and shred the pursuers. If there are cahriots I also target these. Same technique is to kill all those units that can hurt, shoot rest and then withdraw and kill again. That is why it is always good to have some movement left if enemies are about. Stand and fight then withdraw when arrows gone, if the army chases and catches you again you have reloaded and can finish them off. That is how 200 HA can kill 800 stack armies. When defending make the enemy come to you and even chase you, the enemy really drop like flies when your troops are fresh and they are exhausted. I've had generals kill hundreds of exhausted troops running them down.

I'm now starting to run into the Brutii in the North and the Scipii in the South, already having problems besieging towns with my all calvary armies and have sarted introducing spearmen, legions and archers for the sieges (note: towers in stone walls really hammer horse archers). Cav have no problem if you want to wait the enemy out but hard if you want to assault the castle (unfortunately horses cannot climb ladders).

One thing I noticed was that the early generals were slow to reproduce and often married women several years their senior. I focused on law/war temples but it may be wise to focus on several fertility/happiness temples.

Overall a good faction to play and very different then any other I have played (greek, briton and roman). While it is only a matter of time to victory I am looking forward to seeing how the HA stand up to Roman armies.

rs2k2
12-23-2005, 04:27
Well after playing Julii, Carthage, Scipii, Brutii, Macedon, and Seleucids (in that order), I felt it was time I tried out a HA faction. Armenia seemed to be the only one with any decent infantry but I absolutely hated their starting position. You lose money from the start (very unlike the other 5 factions) and your only real option economically is to take over Pontic territory. I missed Greece very much. So much in fact, that I took all my family members and about 8 or so HA, loaded them on a boat, and sailed towards Greece. I dropped them off on a quick raiding pitstop next to Byzantium and good thing too since my fleet got attacked the moment they got off. A diplomat secured an alliance with Thrace and I proceded towards my next checkpoint: Macedonia. Surprisingly with just a family member (all I could spare at the moment) Byzantium remained relatively loyal. Thessalona however didn't and revolted back to Macedonian control. Meh, free money (I'm still 8000 denari in debt). Things are looking good though, I'm actually making a profit now every turn. I then took Corinth, Sparta, Athens, Thermon, Kydona, and Apollonia (Brutii forced me into this one, stupid Romans) in that order. I'm currently 20000 denari in the positive and pumping HA like there's no tomorrow. Horse archers definitely thrive against phalanx/infantry heavy warfare. You can't hammer something not pinned against your anvil.

Lentonius
01-04-2006, 17:02
dunno why but i always had armenia as one of my faves...

IrishArmenian
05-28-2006, 07:04
I never had a problem with the Selucids. I allied with Egypt against the Selucids. After Selucia was mostly mine I turned my attention to the on and off Parthia war I was fighting. That was solved by an alliance with Sycthia and we both quickly turned Parthia into rubble. At this point, Pontus had crumbled under the power of the Greeks and Egyptians, but they were constantly revolting, so me being the power grab afficionado (I am pretty sure that isn't english, I think its Italian or Spanish but I heard a friend of mine throw that word around and thought I'd try it) I took the rebel cities that were vacated while the rebels were fighting other factions. Then, while Egypt was fighting on Multiple fronts (Scippii, Greek Cities, Numidia and I believe the Brutii) I marched into their core areas with a large army of Armenian Legions (quite a good rip off) Cataphracts, Cataphract Archers, and the Armenian Phalanx pikemen. I besieged three of those core cities (I think Alexandria and two more, cannot remember their names) and slaughtered all their family members. Egypt fell soon. I am currently in a war against the Greeks, but it isn't looking good for them. I have an alliance with Sycthia (remaining loyal for they are not a threat), Rome (that is all going to change soon), the Gauls (going to coordinate attack with them against Rome), and Thrace (they are helping me against Greece). I beleive that Armenia apart from being the best because I am biased, allows the most flexibility of any faction. You have your Armenian Legions and phalanx pikemen, but on the other hand, you have calvary archers, cataphracts, cataphract archers et all. Haik rules the ancient world!

Roy1991
11-04-2006, 21:59
This is quite a strange campaign...

https://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8559/armeniawy9.jpg

I've never before seen the Romans start a civil war when I was playing a non-Roman faction... It started around 225BC, and the Julii captured the last Brutii town about 5 turns ago.

Somehow the Germanians managed to kick the Britons back to their island :dizzy2:

Spain captured Numantia and Corduba within 10 turns, but in 251BC their last family member apparently died, while they were still holding the entire Iberian peninsula.
The Julii then quickly captured all the Iberian rebel provinces, but now the Carthaginians are driving them back slowly.

So far the Julii haven't attempted yet to invade Carthage, and Carthage doesn't seem to be interested in Sicily & Italy.


I captured Asia Minor pretty fast, but it took quite long to defeat the Egyptians.
I then recruited a full stack consisting of 2 Generals, 8 Heavy Spearman and 10 Catatank archers (~:) ), and invaded Europe.
It took me more than 35 turns to capture Greece - the ammount of Armoured Hoplites they produce is just rediculous -, but now they've only Rhodes left, which is under siege.

I'm only fighting defensively against the Julii, to give the Carthaginians some time to conquer Iberia, so I have something other than just endless stacks of praetorians to look forward too ~;)

The Catatank Generals are really great, they beat Roman Armoured bodyguards twice their size while losing only 2 or 3 men.

rs2k2
03-23-2007, 19:12
Well, a short break and a Scipii campaign later, I'm back to the Armenians. Last time I played was back in v1.2 and I remembered abandoning my old provinces, sacking Byzantium, and restablishing myself in Sparta/Corinth/Athens.

This time, I went straight for Anatolia, wiping out Pontus in 6 turns as well as capturing Nicomedia, Ancyra, Halicanarssus, Sardis in the next 20 turns. I left the Parthians alone and they didn't bother me one bit. With all of Turkey under my control, I was swimming in denarii. The great thing about Armenia and HA factions in general is that while they generally are pretty poor, their armies are also really cheap. My standard army consists of 6 HA and a general. Any more than 6 and I find the map getting too crowded as well as friendly fire becoming an issue.

After Turkey, focus on Egypt, swinging around North Africa, taking Crete, Rhodes, Pergamum (if you haven't already), and work up the Greek/Macedonian cities from Sparta. The trick is to attack first if possible. Even at 1:10 odds, if the army has no range, you can wittle down the army by 200 men without losing any. If attacked, don't withdraw since if you get attacked again in the same turn, you can't withdraw on the battlefield.

Something I didn't know until now, ALT + right-click for Cataphracts = Charge with lance and melee with AP maces.

Chaotix
03-31-2007, 23:51
I had been playing a short campaign with Armenia, recently. Sorry if I'm not as detailed as some of the writers before me, but I just don't write huge, 3000 word essays on campaigns. Here's my spin on the campaign:

Essentially, I made Alliances with Egypt, Scythia, and the Greeks, I crippled Parthia and Pontus early in the game, and then set to work fighting the Seleucids.

The first city I took was Hatra to the south. It was owned by the not-so-mighty Seleucid Empire, and I expected a long war, but instead their diplomat offered an early ceasefire. (Mind you, I was only playing a Normal campaign- that might not happen in Hard or VH). After this, I took the rebel town of Phraaspa and Arsakia, the Capital of Parthia. By now, I had Alliances with the Greeks and the Scythians. I moved south through the mountains and grabbed Susa in a crippling battle for the Parthians. After a ceasefire with the Parthians, I set my sights on Pontus. I quickly grabbed Mazaka and Sinope (In that order) in easy battles. Since the early Pontic infantry is horrible, my horse archers had no problem cutting them down. Typically, Pontus, Parthia, and the Seleucids had allied by now, and only now did Egypt accept my Alliance offer.

Finally, I decided to backstab the Seleucid Empire. I built up an army of mostly horse archers and a few eastern infantries and exterminated Seleucia. The outraged Seleucids now sent out a few full stack armies of levy spearmen and militia hoplites toward Hatra and Mazaka. This is a big discovery that I made: about 5 units of horse archers can single handedly cut down a whole army of levies and militia hops when used correctly. After they run out of arrows, they can even risk a charge against the remaining demoralized units if they have a general to help them out. After eliminating those armies, I moved out towards Tarsus and grabbed it.

And that's where the story ends, for now. Heh.. maybe I did write a bit more than I expected. Anyway, bottom line is- armies completely comprised of horse archers are war-winners against early Seleucid armies. Watch out for the trained Phalanx Pikemen, though- they don't get cut down as easily as the militias

WarLord of the East
04-01-2007, 19:57
Essentially, I made Alliances with Egypt, Scythia, and the Greeks, I crippled Parthia and Pontus early in the game, and then set to work fighting the Seleucids.

The first city I took was Hatra to the south. It was owned by the not-so-mighty Seleucid Empire, and I expected a long war, but instead their diplomat offered an early ceasefire. (Mind you, I was only playing a Normal campaign- that might not happen in Hard or VH).

I can guarantie about it will not happen in VH :beam: instead scythians attacked me in 7-8 th turn( i closed the brıdge but they came from other two and surrounded my cıtıes ) although the aliance....... while fighting with partians pontus came to my border and i stopped them with a big army so they did not attack but i coldnt use my armıy for 5 turns either . although ı took partıan capıtal they defeated seleucıds and took hatra and sended a bıg army and when ı was about the relax after a hard battle( ı retreated but kılled a lot of them) egypt came and surrounded armenıa wıth a 800 man about when ı had almost no army and another scythian army surrounded other seems ımpossıble but happened .
at VH seleucıds are always defeated ın very short tıme ın fırst 10 turn they enter a war agaınst egypt parthia pontus and armenıa and sometımes even wıth greeks so attackıng seleucıds must be your fırst optıon after takıng the rebel town move to south a you can attack the seleucids with the parthians so make alliance with pathians after takıng at least one of these towns make a ceasefıre wıth seleucıds (they wıll make sınce they wıll be at war wıth all of theır neighbours)
then turn your face and beat the parthıans vey quıckly create the ınvadıng army at seleucıd tows hatra and seleucıdıa because ıf you dont atack fırst they wıll do before you use mercanerıes everywhere you fınd

when theır armıes abroad take the settlements quıckly dont thınk about pontus leave a bıg army to deal wıth both pontus and scythia ıf you get rıd of parthia wıth hıghfarmıng ıncome from wonder you wıll no need to thınk about pontus or egypt meet them wıth armıes full of HA and CA theey wıll be easy preys ıf you manage the economy and traın CA ıt wıll be a easy game for next 50-100 turns tıll you face to romans they wıll be defeated greeks and macedons so be very agressıve about rhodes and meybe even for some easy pıckıngs from southeast europe (greece and macedonıa)

pockettank
04-02-2007, 00:28
i just started my armenian campaign today and so far its going pretty good i have alliance with selucid and parthia and pontus is down to 1 province im on turn 11 i believe, this campagian reminds me of my pontus campagain knida lol. after pontus i plan on killing scythia then parthia then egypt then if they still exist selucid then cross N. Africa then charge italy into N. Europe until julii, scipii, and SPQR r dead then kill Brutii and if they remain macedon/GCS then wok on the barbarians of N. Europe hopefully it works im playing on M/M

Breetai
06-23-2007, 05:42
I just finished an Armenian campaign today, and when I say finished, I mean finished.

I find that the first, absolutely vital step is to take down Parthia straight off the bat. Start off by taking all of your troops that are in range, and annihilate the rebel town to your east. Take one turn to retrain all of your troops/train one unit of peasents for garrison, and then immediately siege the nearest Parthian city. Yes, they do have two cataphracts. However, with very vareful micromanagement it's a very winnable battle, and you end up completely neutering Parthia's strength in the region. The remainder of the next fer turns is a mop-up operation; take out Parthia's southern presence, and don't even bother with the northernmost province until very late in the game (i.e. after egypt is toast).

If you want to take the Hanging Gardens that's fine, but otherwise leave Seleucia alone. They're an excellent buffer state that will help you avoid warring with the egyptians (I didn't take my own advice this last game and ended up fighting many fullstacks per turn with only eastern infantry and standard horse archers. Tough, but it does give your horse archers lotsa experience.)

Another bonus with regards to holding off from invading seleucia is that they cannot hope to match your armies in the open. Even a half-stack of horse archers can keep your southern borders secure while you take on richer areas to the west with your conquering armies.

If you're playing 1.2, then after a while there's no reason not to train Cataphract Archers only (best unit in the game, imho). In 1.5, however, instead of doing more ranged damage they have a longer range but far fewer arrows (30 volleys as opposed to 40). Therefore mix it up a little with standard HAs on a 1:1 basis. Also keep in mind that your missile cavalry will gain veterancy much faster than your melee infantry/cavalry, so by mid game you may very well have cataphract archers that are better in melee than normal cataphracts.


Here's my end game. I conquered everywhere. The following army is entirely green, and is what I can train out of a huge city + the benefit of a Macedonian temple somewhere.

https://img150.imageshack.us/img150/201/clipboard01vk2.th.jpg (https://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01vk2.jpg)

I admit that maybe this army was slightly overkill.

https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3307/clipboard03kx4.th.jpg (https://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard03kx4.jpg)

Fun fact: Those breastplates should be lopsided. Students of history shuld know what I mean.

https://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3148/clipboard04ne9.th.jpg (https://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard04ne9.jpg)

Another thing to note about Armenia is that they have the ability to build an excellent economy. Their law/happiness temple cuts down on corruption dramatically, and if you combine that with execution square bonuses etc, then you're laughing. Their troop training temple isn't bad either: It gives a +1 to experience at the first level temple, and is capable of giving armour upgrades - great in Eastern warfare.

Armenia is pretty much the uberfaction in RTW. It's got Horse Archers AND good infantry, and Cataphract Archers are second to none. I will say one thing though; Hillmen and pretty much everything that can be trained from a range is pretty useless, and I finished my game without ever training one of either. A central line of Phalanxes, some light and heavy horse archers, and some Armenian Legionnaires for storming city walls, and you're set.

John_Longarrow
11-16-2008, 20:48
Armenia is a fantastic faction to play if you enjoy having a great diversity of army types you wish to run. It is also a fantastic faction if you want to have the best horse archers in the game backed up by legionaries, phalanx troops, powerful heavy cavalry, archers and javelin pitchers. The problem is getting to a point where you can actually build any of this. This guide is to help you survive long enough to actually make some headway.

The first twenty or so turns will be pure survival and infrastructure turns. For some people this is the most fun part of the game; for others, the worst. My recommendation is to build up your largest city (your capitol) to a population of 6000 as quickly and economically as possible.
On turn one, move the two Peltasts and one Archer in Kotais to Artaxarta and disband them. Also disband the two units of Peltasts in Artaxarta. That will increase your population by 400. You will also want to put your taxes to low to encourage growth. While you are doing this, move your general Aramu and his three Horse Archers (HAs) east of Artaxarta. Have the HAs from Artaxarta join up with them. You will use these five HAs and your general to siege Phraaspa, which is east and a little south of Artaxarta.

My recommendation is to keep Phraaspa under siege until they sally out. If you go in and attack them you will take higher casualties than if you let them come out at you where your HAs can shoot at them.

While you are doing this, you can work your diplomat around to Pontis and your other neighbors and work on getting trade rights. Until Artaxarta hits a population of 6000, I’d build up the port and other trade buildings. Artaxarta starts with the first level of stables, so as soon as you can upgrade the city building the second level is your main priority. Your goal in the first 20 turns is to avoid losing any cities and to build at least 4 Cataphract Archers (CAs). If you upgrade your farm in Artaxarta starting on turn one that will speed up how quickly you can produce CAs.

About the time you can start building up your army you should have 5 generals. Your faction leader will probably have died already, but three of the four sons should have reached maturity. At this point you can decide which route you would rather follow; Attack Pontis, Attack the Seleucid Empire, or go after Parthia. Normally I attack Parthia first and take Arsakia. I use mercenary infantry to back a general and HAs and a CA or two. Once Arsakia is out of Parthain hands, they normally don’t attack as they get busy trying to expand south. I do get attacked by both the Seleucid Empire and Pontis shortly afterwards, so I keep an army of four to six CAs near Artaxarta to intercept and destroy each attacking stack. Six CAs and a couple generals can normally crush most incoming armies, so long as you don’t let a couple stacks gang up on you. This will also give your CAs a LOT of experience early, something that will make taking out one of the other factions much easier.

For expansion, I normally don’t concentrate on one enemy, rather I slowly expand by taking which ever city looks best situated to help me out. I don’t want to spread my forces too thinly, but my next targets are; Sinope, Mazaka, Tarsus, Antioch, Hatra, Seleucia, and Susa in which ever order seems supportable based on what the Pontic, Seleucid empire, Parthia, and Egypt are up to. Often I will leave Antioch for last as taking that city tends to cause Egypt to attack me as soon as I’ve taken it.

Once you are this far along, you should be running a serious surplus of Denarii and you can decide what troops you like best of the Armenian lineup. For myself, one of my goals is to have a stack of 10-12 CAs with a general and 9-7 legionaries. This gives me a solid infantry line backed up with dual purpose heavy cavalry that really wrecks most enemy armies. I also like having a group of 5 heavy spears around for bridge work. Few fights are as lopsided as heavy spears holding a bridge while CAs shoot the enemy army to pieces.

peacemaker
12-10-2008, 02:59
Erm...can somebody please help me on how to edit the game files to let me play as armenia? I move it into the playable section in the descr_strat but every time I click on it on the faction selection thing for the imperial campaign then it just crashes. Do I need to change another file?

Magraev
12-10-2008, 09:18
That should do it. Cut (don't copy) Armenia from unplayable to playable.

You did make a backup - right?

Flavius Merobaudes
12-10-2008, 09:23
Did you delete the spaces that remain when you copy and paste? Might just be a typing error.
Does it give you a report? Then the document name and the line should be mentioned in it.

You really only have to alter descr_strat. Just make sure the formal syntax is correct. You have to delete that one empty line that happens to be there... Hope this helps.

Darkvicer98
12-10-2008, 16:50
If you have Barbarian Invasion installed as well it doesn't let you play as most of the unplayable factions. With BI it's version 1.3, so Patch RTW to v1.5.

Flavius Merobaudes
12-10-2008, 21:40
If you have Barbarian Invasion installed as well it doesn't let you play as most of the unplayable factions. With BI it's version 1.3, so Patch RTW to v1.5.
Always thought with BI would be version 1.6.:inquisitive:
I got BI and it works for me...

peacemaker
12-11-2008, 07:12
huh. all right, i will download 1.5 sometime soon. thanks for the help guys

Darkvicer98
12-11-2008, 17:06
Always thought with BI would be version 1.6.:inquisitive:
I got BI and it works for me...
BI is v1.6, with it installed RTW is v1.3. So you need to patch it to v1.5.

peacemaker
12-12-2008, 01:30
all righty then...it worked! yay. with all the eastern factions i seem to get nothing but heroic victories since i only take like 2 casualties... eastern factions are fun

Mek Simmur al Ragaski
12-12-2008, 17:28
Peace Maker my file looks like this:

campaign imperial_campaign
playable
romans_julii
romans_brutii
romans_scipii
egypt
seleucid
carthage
parthia
gauls
germans
britons
greek_cities
macedon
pontus
armenia
dacia
numidia
scythia
spain
thrace
end
unlockable
end
nonplayable
romans_senate
slave
end

I am able to play as any faction. Are you sure that you changed the correct file? You cannot play with the romans_senate or slave factions because they need heavy modding i think...
*EDIT* sorry this no longer needs to be here i had some kind of computer glitch, ill just leave it here so that if anybody is having problems they can read it too.

ReluctantSamurai
12-27-2008, 21:59
I had played every faction but Armenia....until just recently. I must say, the difficulties getting off the ground are daunting at the least. I had to reload several times before I learned how to balance income with the troop numbers. My first problems were having too many troops and going broke in a hurry....a classic case of having to do more with less:inquisitive:

But once I rolled Pontus out of existance, and kicked the Greeks out of Pergammon, things began to look up. Parthia made some threatening gestures early, but a quick sally by my faction leader into a commanding position convinced them to go elsewhere and they never came around again. In fact I made them an ally and fund them periodically so they can continue to pester the flanks of the Seleucids (who are now down to their last city) and the :egypt:

The balance of troops is nice (though I'm not sure how much of the roster is historical) and cataphract archers OWN :egypt: chariot archers! I've fought Egypt with just about every faction there is, I always dealt with chariot archers using foot archers deployed to the flanks and light cav to chase them back when they get too close. With cat archers, you can simply assign one to each chariot archer and then go about the rest of the battle:laugh4: Losses were typically 4 or 5 cat archers per :egypt: unit.

In any case, my armies are currently driving towards the Nile Delta, and the Seleucids are holed up in Seleucia. I will probably gift it to Parthia (along with several of my most eastern provinces) after the Nile is overrun and expansion heads west.

John_Longarrow
01-07-2009, 01:01
Something you will find very useful is sending CAs against the Legions of Rome. You've got fire power, speed, armor, and hitting power on your side. Unlike normal heavy cav, you can let your's sit back and fill the legions full of arrows before you charge in to crush them.

About the only problem I've had with CAs is fighting heavy phalanx troops. Once I run out of arrows, things don't go as well.

Too bad I can't port the Armenian troops over to M2TW though... I'd LOVE to fight the Mongols with CAs!

peacemaker
01-09-2009, 02:38
to deal with pikemen or most anything with a phalanx, you need 2 troops. Find a way to isolate them, and get one cataphract in front of him and one behind. Then chage both of them at him at the same time, and at the last second, pull back the one that's facing the speas. he'll get smashed in the back, then charge in with the first cataphract while withdrawing the second. Repeat until the unit is dead.

John_Longarrow
01-21-2009, 19:05
Peacemaker

In small numbers, phalanx troops are easy to deal with. They only become dangerous in numbers. Fortunately I can kill a lot of phalanx troops with arrow before I even have to charge. The problem is normally having fewer CA's than enemy phalanx units.

6 CA's VS a general and 19 hopolite's generally turns into a very long and drawn out battle. In these fights exhaustion of the enemy troops does wonders.

Headhunter242
02-04-2009, 10:50
I started a campaign on M/M just to check out this faction. Parthia accepted an alliance and held it 'til i got enough money to bribe a complete huge army of theirs (incl. the 2 starting cats) and crush them with it. Pontus went first, after that it's all against egypt. Massed HA own almost everything in the field not built as a tank. Hopefully egypt will be gone before it techs to pharao's guards. Stone walls could become a problem, since wall-stormers come late and the worthwhile mercs in this area are cav.

John_Longarrow
02-08-2009, 18:24
If you can get your barracks to the third level, you get phalanx troops that are equal or better than just about any other phalanx troops out there. At the fourth level you get legionares.

So far the most fun thing about playing Armenia is being able to build just the army you want for any given situation. Against Greece/Macedonia, you can send in superior phalanx troops with legions guarding the flanks. Toss in a few archers / Cataphrac archers and you can face them with a better version of their own forces. :devilish:

Seamus Fermanagh
02-10-2009, 06:45
I started a campaign on M/M just to check out this faction. Parthia accepted an alliance and held it 'til i got enough money to bribe a complete huge army of theirs (incl. the 2 starting cats) and crush them with it. Pontus went first, after that it's all against egypt. Massed HA own almost everything in the field not built as a tank. Hopefully egypt will be gone before it techs to pharao's guards. Stone walls could become a problem, since wall-stormers come late and the worthwhile mercs in this area are cav.

THough expensive to repair when you are done, sapping can drop the biggest walls and generic rental eastern infantry do just fine with pick and shovel -- far better than they do in a scrum.

Then you can cavalry your way through the breach. Not pretty, but it will work.

Emperor of Graal
02-10-2009, 08:16
Do HA form worse in a City than outside because they can't retreat as easily?

Quintus.JC
02-10-2009, 18:29
Personally I think Horse Archers almost completely lose their value in city fights, espeically the lower-tier ones. HA relies on their range attacks and their ability to remain out of enemy reach with superior speed. It is very difficult to use them well in cities.

One useful trick I use against HA armies are to let them have a settlement, then keep them under seige and assult them while they're still inside, this way even a few units of militia hoplites is able to masscre a whole stack of powerful HAs. This is particular useful with factions such as the Seleucids with enemies such as Parthia and Pontus, and their ability to train Militia hoplites and Pikemen early on.

John_Longarrow
02-10-2009, 18:31
HA's generally do worse because it is much easier for infantry to get under some cover and out of direct bow shot. HA's also have a much harder time keeping range open since they have a lot of buildings getting in the way, thus making it very hard for them to line up flanking shots on enemy units OR avoid being flanked themselves.

A lot of intantry that is considered almost useless can cut down HA's caught in a city street.

Quintus.JC
02-10-2009, 21:54
The single biggest reason why Horse Archers becomes useless in city fights is because of the loss of mobility. Most horse archers generally follows the rule that 'If they can't catch you, then they can't hurt you', using their superior mobility to stay out of harms way and inflicting heavy damage to their opponent at the same time. Lower-tier Horse Archers are extremely weak in melee, and are as good as dead against any form of spearmen in cities. Powerful armoured cavalry fare better then HA, but even they lose their magic in the narrow city streets. Cavalry's biggest weapon is its mobility and charges, Cataphracts are especially true to this, these cavalry are capable of routing units with one single charge, crushing their opponents under the sheer weight of their armour is not a problem for them. But even they can't generate the momentum without speed, and horses simply cannot use their speed to their full advantage in cities.

All in all, horses and chariots are not designed to fight in cities.

Elephant
03-17-2009, 00:52
The only HA unit that can fight in cities is the Cataphract Archer, except against chariots, of course. Counter-charging light cavalry is sweet indeed.

But now, something else concerns me, and that is the fact that vanilla HAs have been able to kill one or two of my Cataphract Archers per volley! Doesn't that huge armor rating count for something against arrows??

Alp Arlsan
03-24-2009, 23:24
Ohh Armenia, a land of drunks, gold, mountains and teal. A most unique and engaging campaign which I reccommend to anybody. Perfect Armenian army would include a row of pikes, flanking legionaires, CAs and mopping up light cavalry backed up by a decent general who will become legendary. Have fun.

dAbY()
09-27-2009, 10:51
Overview

- Armenia has some good troops, and their only real unique unit is a Cataphract Horse Archer. One of the most useful units in the game. An Armenian army should always have about eleven of these, and you should make these as soon as you can make them. Armenia has Cataphracts too, good all-round units, good support for your Cataphract Horse Archers. The Legionaries are good too, and are the main-line infantry unit for Armenia. They've got some good early-stage units too, and the army they start with, is a good one for conquering. Heavy Spearmen are also a very good allround unit, with a phalanx. Armoured well, good attack, nothing wrong with this unit.

- Armenia's situation is quite good. They do not need to fear Scythia, as they don't travel that far. Parthia isn't much of a problem, just put 3 peltasts in Artaxarta and you'll be fine. Just try to make an alliance, and you're OK. Pontus is weak at the start, as they Pontic Heavy and Light Cavalry, can't match up against your Horse Archers. You do have some mountain problems in the start, so it's a bit difficult to really travel far at the start.

- Armenia's economy is one of the best in the game. You do start quite low, yes. But capture the two Pontic cities (shouldn't really be difficult) and you've got a huge trade boom. Sinope and Kotais will have a good sea trade, and both will be bringing in about 600, even on VH/VH. Mazaka will support Sinope with land trade too, so that will bring in some. Artaxarta will support Kotais with land trade too, just as Mazaka does with Sinope. Also, the Black Sea is a sort of big mini-Aegean sea. And it's Armenia's first goals to conquer that area.

Conquering

Well, Armenia's conquests are easy, especially at the beginning. Send ALL of your troops, including one family Member, to the Pontics. Hire Sarmatians, to have something to break the Pontic Heavy and Light cavalry, in case they want to go in melee with your Horse Archers. Take Sinope first, as it will enable you to build more Horse Archers early on. Get Mazaka too.

Now, defend your territory for a couple of turns, build some more Horse Archers, and focus on economy. Get some money until you have 10000, and take Hatrawith about 7 Horse Archers. Shouldn't be too difficult, against those weak Seleucids. When you have Hatra, use it as a buffer against Egypt. Build up more, and capture Tarsus. Also with some Horse Archers. Use this as a buffer against Egypt too.

Now, Pontus has had time to build up near the Greeks (mainly in Nicomedia) but they are too weak now to pose a real problem, so use them as cannon fodder for your Horse Archers, to let them gain experience. If they DO pose a problem (IE, they use their Pontic Light (and possible Heavy) Cavalry as hand-to-hand cavalry, rather than missile cavalry) Sarmatians will be your solution. Somehow, Pontus is very weak against Sarmatians, so use this to your advantage. At this stage you should have all provinces of Turkey, including your original towns, except Sardis, Halicarnassus, and Pergamum. Take Sardis with some Horse Archers, and Eastern Infantry, to deal with the last remains of the Seleucids. I usually bribe Halicarnassus, and install some peasants. Or you can just conquer it if you want. Pergamum might pose a problem, as Greece will very often make lots of military droppings there (I mean with ships, I'm not talking about things that come out of someone's anus) so try to kill the Greek fleet, before taking Pergamum. By this time, you have a booming economy, and right at this point, Egypt will attack either Tarsus, or Hatra. Now, make peasants in all Anatolian towns, and send ALL you're worthwile troops to the danger area. Make some troops in Artaxarta, Kotais, Sinope and Mazaka. Make them breed hordes of Horse Archers.

I usually have two armies of 20 Horse Archers standing by once I am offensive against Egypt, just in case, becouse Egypt is a real backstab faction. The only thing they do in the game is backstab. I've experienced it as Seleucids, Numidia, Parthia, and as Armenia too. So, have these Horse Archer-only armies standing by, to crush these Egpytians. Conquer the remains of the Seleucid empire. And conquer the large Scythian town, so you can start surrounding Parthia, and start attacking them. Parthia has Horse Archers too, but at this stage, you should have Cataphract Horse Archers. Really good troops against the Parthians, your treatment for those nasty Parthian Camel Cataphracts, or Persian Cavalry. Just try not to fight, just lay siege, and hope they don't break out. If they do, spread out your units, and keep all non-mounted units in the back. When you have the Middle East, make a HUGE offensive army and swep over Egypt. Use Horse Archers now as your main unit, rather than Cataphract Horse Archers, becouse of the Desert Cavalry (The most irritating unit in the game). Get Memphis first becouse of the Piramids. Get Siwa and Cyrene.

Now, just sit back, and let money flow in. Be defensive, prepare to make an army to take Greece, and to overthrow the Scipii in Africa. The Romans are weak to Cataphracts, so make more Cataphract units, rather than (Cataphract) Horse Archers for a while. Just conquer away, let the Romans form testudo (computer rarely does it, but do try ) or not, and crush them. March onto Rome, or try conquering the world before taking on Rome, it's a lot more fun seeing a map with all provinces belonging to your Faction. Walk into Rome, be victorious. Drink some wine, amuse yourself with the Senate. Kill some Romans. Or eat them, like Hannibal (Lecter, not the Carthaginian one )

Buildings

What? Buildings? We live in tents.. why would we need buildings? Nah, you need them, especially ar Armenia. Your very first goal when having a town, is to obtain a Trade building (more of a route, but... never mind). They give a huge boast to land trade. And in some situations, it makes land trade a lot more profitable than Sea Trade. Having the Aegean Sea fully built with the best trade route, and Dockyards, even on VH/VH, some towns give 6000 revenue. Too huge for words. As for shrines and temples... I don't really care. I just randomly pick one for each town. As Armenia, shrines/temples aren't really my problem. Close your eyes, click, and see what temple. Done. With Armenia there is no real temple set-up. Well, you know your main goal, economy. But what about military? Hm, I'll give you some nice little towns, wherein you need to focus more on militray, rather than economy : Antioch, Memphis, Carthage, Athens, Campus Getae, and Campus Sakae. That's it. Boom your military there, and you will have good points from which you can build forces, to spread out, or to conquer with.

Fighting as Armenia

Hm, Armenian fighting isn't as easy as you think. You might think : Oh yeah, just let those Horse Archers fire, set them to Skirmish Mode, and I'll be okay... no. Basically, Skirmish mode means moving backwards... and when your Horse Archers get to the edge of the battle map... ýou get lots of Armenian blood on the ground... So, put them OUT of Skirmish mode, and learn a lot with Custom Battle, on how to maneuver your Horse Archers, to make them more effective. I usually let them walk in sort of zig-zag patterns, that usually works very well. Somehow it makes them VERY effective, espeically against enemy cavalry.

When being chased by cavalry, run away, and let another Horse Archer unit follow from behind. This way, the enemy cavalry will be fired on from two sides. Which breaks morale, and makes them rout faster. Armenia's infantry usually consists of Eastern Infantry, or Armenian Legionaries. Don't use Hillmen, they are very sucky units. Anyway, your main Infantry force is meant to be an anti-cavalry force. That's it. Enemy infantry won't even get a chance to fight, as your Horse Archers shoot them to shreds. Your infantry will cut up enemy cavalry, when surrounding. That shouldn't be too difficult with Eastern Infantry. They have good defence, so the can hold out long enough so that they can wrap around enemy cavalry. Don't use Peltasts or anything as Armenia, they're useless to Armenians. Stick to cavalry and infantry, and you're okay. USe your Cataphracts to punch a whole into enemy lines, Cavalry, Missile, or Infantry, they will nearly always win. Their charge bonus and armor will do their job. Heavy Spearmen can be used too, if you want. But the slow phalanx doesn't really fit in with the fast way of Armenian warfare. If you're going to use them at all, put them out of phalanx formation.

Here is a little addition from Muagan_ra:

"I find a good strategy for any Archer Cavalry (AC) nation; the 'eastern' nations with horse archers, and Pontus and Egypt, is to run your AC (HorseArchers or maybe CataArchers) down both flanks fo the main enemy formations, not so much to inflict casualties, but to break them up. Enemies will normally try to chase you off, and in this way, you can disorganise their formation, whilst at the same time you should be moving your main infantry line (Heavy Spearmen in Phalanx) forward in a single line (with gaurd mode off), and they should then be much better positioned to engaged the disorganised enemy (provided the AC distration worked.) Even if it dosn't work, the AC's will do casualties, and draw their attention from commanding at the front line.

Either way, Armenian legionarries should be used to flank around the Phalanx Line, whilst you're Cataphracts do the normal job of protecting your flanks from enemy cavalry and then swing around to envelop when the threats to your flanks are nuetralised."

It achieves a kind of "Cannae" style Double Envelopment, if you do it right.

Abokasee
07-21-2011, 22:34
Armenia... man its been a while since I played.
First thing: Build roads, throw away some of those peltasts they drain your income.
Second thing: Parthia is your friend in this campaign. Kill Parthia - land is far more valuable than a ally that will never turn up to a fight in RTW.
Third thing: No friends. By all means except those trade rights, but in the mean time make sure your expanding... pontus will probably try to slap you but you should be ready to take it to the ground quickly.
Fourth thing: Seleucid and Egypt must by conquered. These two are sizeably largey than you... the former is weak but can be a monster if you dont start going gladiator on its ass from turn one of your war with them. And the later is always a monster - has a pre-disposed habbit of massing armies mainly made up of low quality troops... about 5 stacks worth of them - so get those Heavy spearmen out early!

Remember these and you should take Turkey, Egypt and parts of Iraq/Persia with little trouble (other than you know, fighting 5+ stacks of Egyptian Peasants and Nubian spearmen). Once you have the entire income and man power of those lands no one can match you. Yes no one. Except maybe X vs Roman in Autocalc sieges where numbers are equal.

ReluctantSamurai
03-10-2012, 17:17
I went back and read through all of the posts in this guide. Lots of good ideas but a bit lacking on how to fine-tune Armenia to maximum potential. Many of the posts recommended going to war with Parthia early. While certainly a viable option, I feel that it only serves to make your campaign more difficult. My reasoning goes something like this:

1. The most difficult aspect of starting an Armenian campaign is money. Kotais and Artaxarta are poor, and you don't have a lot of starting cash on hand.

2. Going east against Parthia will net you two provinces exactly like the two you start with...poor. And now to make matters worse, you've doubled the amount of border you need to defend.

3. The only province the Parthians have that's worth anything is Susa. If you manage to take it, as well, you now have a very long border with the Seleucids and will very likely get drawn into a war with them soon. If they get overrun by the Egyptians quickly, then you will be into war with them very shortly. You want neither of these things to happen in the first 10-15 yrs. of your campaign as you simply will not have either the units, nor the money to compete.

Going north into Scythian territory is an even worse proposition unless you plan to go all the way around the Black Sea by taking all the coastal provinces. Takes too long unless you hop onto a fleet and cut across. The main drawback is that you are going in the wrong direction from your principal foe.....Egypt. The longer you take to get to them, the more difficult your campaign becomes. It's for this reason I reject the northern route.

Then there's the suggestions to take Hatra. But Hatra is a slow-grower in terms of population, and if you don't have Seleucia as well, it's difficult to defend. In addition, you will be at war with either the Seleucids or Egypt, or both. Not a desirable situation early in the campaign. You have neither the money, nor enough cities at 6k to begin cranking out Cataphract Archers, and will more than likely get swamped by Egypt.

Which leads us to Pontus, Anatolia, and beyond. This is where the main thrust for Armenia should be, and in subsequent posts I'll explain how to do it, and why this route presents the best opportunity for Armenia to become a dominant power in the Middle East in a relatively short period of time.

Sacred Band
03-24-2012, 18:20
Agree with about everything Samurai writed. Armenia starts off poor, expands into poor lands until you get to Egypt and to modern Turkey. Their starting troops are also crap (hillmen come on...) excepting HA. Also there is nothing to conquer in Scythia. Lots of land to cross, little money, poorly developed towns and always so annoying all HA armies.
When the CA and Heavy spearmen come to fray, Armenia's full potential is revealed :smash:

ReluctantSamurai
03-31-2012, 20:45
PART I

Before I begin to lay out my campaign strategy for Armenia, a look at their troop roster might be in order. Armenia has a very balanced roster if….. you can get developed to the point where your mid-to-high level troops are available.

At the start of the campaign, you will have horse archers, eastern infantry, and not much else. You begin with a heavy cataphract unit and it will be a long time before you can train any new ones, so use it wisely. There are several peltast units….I suggest you disband them immediately and never, ever, train any more. You are a horse archer faction, not a clan of spear-chuckers:laugh4:…foot-skirmishers are a waste of precious resources for Armenia.

You will have only Eastern Infantry early on. Three things can be said for these: they are cheap to buy, move very quickly over desert terrain…….and they die by the hundreds. But this will be all you have available until you can develop a city to 6k, when you then are able to build barracks for training Heavy Spearmen. Never, ever, train Hillmen. They have all of the disadvantages of Eastern Infantry (poor morale, weak attack/defense), and none of the advantages (mass and speed).

When a city reaches 12k, you will be able to build barracks for training Armenian Legionnaires. Not really sure if they are historical or just the game devs trying to compensate for the overpowered Roman legionnaires by giving access to them to several other factions. In any case, AL’s are roughly equivalent to the Roman Principes, and not as good as Early Cohorts. With armor and weapon upgrades, they can be a formidable unit on the battlefield.

Armenia gets a vanilla archer unit. I would suggest you use these only for city defense, where they are reasonably effective. Putting them into a field army is a waste of time and resources. You have a better alternative in Cretan Archers once you move into Anatolia.

Now to the real reason for playing Armenia…..horse archers!

At the start, you will have a weak, but very serviceable horse archer unit available. Three things to be said about these: skirmish…skirmish…skirmish! For anyone who has fought against a horse archer faction, you know what a pain-in-the-a$$ these units can be. Well here’s your chance to turn the tables. If you don’t like micro-managing units, then Armenia is not the faction for you. Due to their rather weak melee stats, you don’t ever want your early horse archer units engaging in hand-to-hand combat unless it's to run down routers. If they get backed into a corner or up against impassable terrain, they are dead. Avoiding this requires you to move each of your horse archers on the battlefield. Putting horse archers into a city defense is not to be recommended unless you have absolutely no choice. Horse Archers are all about mobility, the ability to ride around enemy unit flanks and rear while making pin-cushions of them. Narrow city streets negates this advantage. Likewise, using them to assault a city is bad for the very same reasons. They can be of use early in the game when most eastern towns have wooden walls that horse archers can shoot over. But once into the streets, they are vulnerable.

Once a city reaches 6k, you will be able to build barracks for one of the arguably best units available in RTW…..the Cataphract Archer. These guys are simply a joy to use, and use them you will have to in order to expand your empire. So what is so special about Cataphract Archers, you ask? Well, you get three very good traits all rolled into one unit: the ability to skirmish while making pin-cushions out of your enemy at the same time, heavy armor…which allows you to out-shoot virtually every other archer unit in the game, and the ability to go over to melee when necessary…due to the high defensive value, and good hand-to-hand stats. Cataphract Archers will quickly become the mainstay of your field armies once you can get your cities to 6k population.

The one shortcoming of Cataphract Archers is their rather low charge bonus of 3. Not good enough for breaking tough, heavily armored line infantry. So enter the heavy Cataphract. These guys are TANKS with a capital T. Very high melee stats for attack and defense, and a charge bonus of 15….one of the highest in the game. Heavy Cats will make you forget all about those high-priced Armored Elephants! Cats are faster, have a higher charge bonus, and better melee stats. Once you use these, ellies will become a thing of the past!

As for the navy, you get the standard biremes/triremes/quinquiremes for a port, shipyard, and dockyard respectively. I would suggest you not build any navy, whatsoever, until you have control of all of Anatolia. The principal reasons being your primary opponents ( the Greek Cities, Seleucids, and Egyptians) will have rather large navies to contend with, and you will most likely have a lack of funds to prosecute both a land war and one on the seas. This will change, later on.

The mercenary pool available to Armenia is quite good. Sarmatian heavy cavalry are available until you can start training heavy cats, Cretan archers will become a mainstay of your assault armies, Bastarnae heavy infantry are a good alternative to Eastern Infantry and Heavy Spears and seem to have a knack for killing enemy generals, elephants will be available once you move into the Middle East, as well as one of the best light cav units (IMHO) in the game….Arab Cavalry. I love these guys for their ability to run down routing enemy generals and cavalry…the only unit capable of doing so in desert conditions. Besides, scimitar-wielding maniacs have always been a source of enjoyment for me!:laugh4:

So there you have it. Armenia. Arguably THE best horse archer faction, with as balanced a roster as any faction you can play. In my next post I will cover battlefield tactics, the use of temples, and finally a campaign strategy that can have you becoming THE premier force in the Middle East before you set out to crush the Romans. The Pharoh had best start making preparations for walking the Paths of the Dead, right now!:smash:

ReluctantSamurai
05-27-2012, 15:12
PART II

Next up for the guide, a few words about temples.

As temples go, Armenia has two good ones, and a third that would have been so much more useful had the devs applied their temple effects more consistently. A word on that later.

A previous poster made the remark that you could choose temples for Armenia simply by closing your eyes and clicking on one. I would suggest that you will not be very pleased with the results using that method (for Armenia or any other faction).

First up is Vahagan, which is classified as one of the “forge” temples (gives exp/weapon/armor upgrades). Compared to similar temples of other factions, Vahagan is one of the most useful temples in the game, IMHO. You can upgrade it to level 4; you get a 20% Happiness bonus; and starting at level 3 you get a +2 exp bonus along with weapon and armor upgrades. When combined with a foundry, this allows silver weapon and gold armor levels. I do find it strange, however, that for a faction that depends heavily on the bow, Vahagan doesn’t confer any archery bonus. When compared to other factions “forge” temples, Vahagan measures up well. Teutatis (Spain, Gaul) can only be improved to level 3 and they provide 5% less happiness as a result. Zalmoxis (Dacia) also can only be improved to level 3 and as part of the inconsistency found in RTW temple design, is the only “forge” temple not to grant an experience bonus. Go figure…Only Vulcan (Scipii) and Hephaestus (Seleucia) can be considered better than Vahagan, both by the virtue of having a 5th level which gives a 10% bonus to law and an extra 5% bonus to happiness above that granted by Vahagan.

The traits conferred by Vahagan are all good. Brave is the trait and from level one to the max level, all give a morale bonus (+1 to +4) and a popularity bonus (+10% and +20%).

Being a “forge” temple, you will want to use this temple for all of your major training cities, which I will cover in the following strategy section of the guide.

All-in-all, Vahagan is Armenia’s best “all-around” temple.

Next is Armazd, classified as a “leadership” temple. This will be your temple of choice for cities that will require severe population control (like Tarsus and Jerusalem) by virtue of its 20% bonus to happiness, and 20% to law. This compares favorably to Athena (Greek Cities) and Jupiter (Julii) which are only slightly better (+35% to happiness, +10% to law) due to having a level 5 available.

Traits conferred by Armazd are mostly good: Strategic Skill, which gives a +1 to +3 command bonus at increasing levels; and Trusting, which provides an influence bonus but at the cost of increasingly poorer personal security at the higher levels (but that’s what you make good spies and assassins for, right?)

Last up, and the one the devs made a major mistake in designing IMHO, is Anahit. Anahit is classified as a “fun” temple and is virtually identical to other factions “fun” temples in every respect but one….population growth. Osiris (Egypt), Bacchus (Julii), and Dionysus (Thrace, Seleucia) all have a 1% population growth bonus, but Anahit has none. Now if you’ve ever played any of those other factions, you’ll know that you rarely need to apply a growth bonus to any of your cities or cites that you capture over and above what you can get from ancillaries (Architect, Grain Merchant, Overseer). But for Armenia, there are a whole slew of cities that need a major growth boost, including your two starting cities of Kotais and Artaxarta. Also on the list are Mazaka, Ancyra, Damascus, Palmyra, and Bostra, all of which are what I call “slow-growers” which will never reach the 24k level without the help of ancillaries AND a family member with the Grower or Architect trait. You need both, either one alone will not do it….this I know from experience. Modding in a 1% growth bonus for Anahit (along with its 40% happiness bonus) would make it a far more useful temple for Armenia. As it is, it’s useful to get a city to 12k, but no further. I would highly recommend tearing it down and replacing it with either Vahagan or Armazd once a city reaches the 12k mark as the traits conferred by it are all bad….some very bad. Why not capture Seleucia with its farm production bonus, you say? That's certainly a viable solution but....you will be letting yourself in for an extreme headache in population control for Tarsus and Jerusalem (both of which have a built-in unrest of 35%) and eventually the three Nile Delta cities (two of which already have a grain bonus driving population numbers up). All of these cities will end up in the 30-32k mark in population before they stabilize at ZPG, so driving those numbers higher for the sake of getting some back-water cities to 24k is not worth it, IMHO. Giving Anahit a 1% growth bonus like the other "fun" temples allows you to control which cities get the boost rather than universally applying growth to all cities which the "Hanging Gardens" do.

Traits conferred by Anahit include Drink, which except for Social Drinker (+1 Command) all decrease command, management, and influence skills. Gambling at all levels decrease trading skills and make your general easier to bribe. Arse at all levels decrease influence. Girls at low levels increase troop morale (what were the devs smoking when they came up with this one??) but at higher levels decrease troop morale and decrease influence. Perverted at all levels is very bad for influence, not a trait you wish for potential city managers.

So there you have it, a guide to Armenian temples; two very good ones, and one that would be far more useful with a bit of modding. In my strategy section, I will give my suggestions as to which cities should get which temples, and why.

ReluctantSamurai
06-10-2012, 17:17
PART III

Now for the meat of this guide…strategies.

There are four directions to prosecute your campaign, and I will touch upon each of them.

I’ll begin with one of the more popular campaign starts, judging by previous posts, that against Parthia. I don’t recommend this approach for the simple reason that Parthian lands are just as poor as your starting two provinces of Kotais and Artaxarta. You have to go all the way to Susa to capture a decent sized city that can be brought up to 6k population quickly so you can start producing heavy spears and, more importantly, cataphract archers. To make matters worse, you now have a very long border with Seleucia, and will likely get drawn into a conflict with them, and soon after, the Egyptians. Both of these factions have very large coffers, and can out produce you easily. Matters get much worse if Egypt overruns Seleucia quickly as often happens. In the few campaigns that I tried the “eastern approach”, Pontus and Egypt form a temporary alliance and now you have to take on not only the Big E, but you will have Pontus prowling the mountain passes of your homelands with hordes of Eastern Infantry and Pontic Cavalry. While possibly exciting, this campaign path is only for those very experienced at horse archer tactics, and who enjoy fighting endless stacks of Egyptian gold and Pontic blue.

The next most popular campaign seems to be against Seleucia. Most posters seem to like taking Hatra first….don’t. Hatra is one of those “slow growers” that takes a long time to populate…as it should. It is, after all, a poor desert settlement. Now if only the devs had given the Anahit temple a 1% growth factor like all other “fun” temples, things would be much easier. So therefore, the next best thing is to hit Seleucia first, with its Hanging Gardens wonder that will boost food production in all your settlements…a good thing in the beginning, a real pain in the rear once you capture cities like Tarsus, Jerusalem, and the Nile Delta cities, two of which have cities with grain-driven populations. In my campaigns, Memphis and Alexandria both reach ZPG somewhere in the high 30’s to 40k without the Hanging Gardens bonus. Even with the loyalty boost from the Pyramids, I’d hate to have to try and control populations over 40k. Let Seleucia go rebel after the Selkies are eliminated. It gives Parthia something to do, and keeps you from getting migranes trying to control runaway populations. In any case, I don’t recommend this approach either, for the simple reason that you are letting the Big E pick all the best fruit. By that I mean Damascus, Antioch, and Tarsus. And more than likely you will be faced with the same situation as the previous campaign…fighting Egypt and Pontus both. Only this can get worse if Parthia joins the fun against you. If you like tough fighting on multiple fronts, choose this campaign.

I’ve seen a few suggestions to head north against the Scythians. If you plan on migrating your faction to other lands, then this would be the direction to choose. Both Tanais and Chersonesos have grain-driven population growth and would make a great starting base for an eventual advance into the Balkans and beyond. Another plus is that you will come into contact with the Romans (the Brutii most likely) and can start working on eliminating at least one of the Roman factions much sooner than normal. Don’t even think about heading for Campus Alanni or any other of those steppe settlements…they are just too far away to be of any significance, and being that you cannot build paved roads (another oversight by the devs, IMHO; if you can build stone city walls, you can pour a gravel bed and lay out road pavers; it surely takes far more engineering to build walls with crenellations, buttresses, archways, etc. than it does to lay road pavers…and I’ve done both of these so this is just my opinion…a faction should have stonebuilding for both roads and walls or neither) it takes forever and a day to move troops to and from these settlements. So the pluses for this campaign are: a refreshing change from the same-old-same-old, opting out of the whole Middle East cauldron, a quicker approach to the Romans, and access to the rich land of the Balkans and Greece. The down side is that there will be noone to oppose Egypt in the Middle East, and if you decide to invade the Big E at a later date, things will be as bad as letting the Romans run amok unopposed…endless stacks marching in your direction.

And finally, my recommended campaign...heading west against Pontus, ASAP. This path is the quickest way to getting Armenia on its way to being THE dominant power in the Middle East, and these are the reasons why…

First, you eliminate a possible future Egypt-Pontus alliance, but more importantly, you capture rich port cities like Sinope, Nicomedia, and eventually Pergamum, and then Sardis and Halicarnassus. If you’ve ever looked at the financial details of your empire, you’d see that port trading far outstrips all other forms of income….COMBINED. Yes, that’s right…more than taxes, mining, and corruption (sometimes you make more than you lose!) combined. You get control of cities that will reach 6k and eventually 12k very quickly which means more income and barracks that can produce cataphracts, spears, and eventually your navy. You also gain access to a much better merc pool that has Cretan Archers and Bastarnae Infantry. You remain on the north side of the Caucasus Mts., safely out of reach of the Big E…for the moment. By the time they finish off Seleucia, you’ll be ready for them and can begin prosecuting a campaign into the former Seleucid territory and beyond.

So…at the very beginning of your campaign, disband those useless peltasts, gather all your horse archers, your lone heavy cat, your best family members, and a few Eastern Infantry and head down the Black Sea coast to Sinope. This will be your first target. Your object, after laying siege to the city is not to fight a siege battle, but to lure a free Pontus stack into trying a relief attack so you can fight a battle in the field where your mobility counts. The reason for taking the heavy cat unit is explicitly for killing Pontic generals. Try not to get them into melee combat with other ground units…yes they will more than likely win a one-on-one with Eastern Infantry but their numbers eventually get too worn down to be effective “general killers”. It usually takes several battles to reduce the early Pontic hordes, but keep at it….eventually Sinope falls and now you have a new capital!

This is not without danger, of course. If Parthia makes a concerted effort using its two heavy cats to siege Artaxarta, things will become difficult. You can do two things, however, to lessen the threat. Wrap Artaxarta in stone as soon as it’s available, and line it with archers. These are easily had by bribing local brigands which almost always contain one or two archer units. They are cheap to bribe, and make a good deterrent to Parthian incursions. I had one campaign where Parthia did lay siege to Artaxarta, but were driven off with the loss of both their heavy cats as well as a couple of family members (vanilla archers can’t destroy a heavy cat outright, but knocking off 6-10 horsemen at each attempt to break the siege eventually gets them) and they never came back again.

After Sinope, head immediately for Mazaka, which by now, should be lightly defended, depending on how your battles around Sinope went. After Mazaka, head for Nicomedia, and then Ancyra (if Pontus managed to capture it). Your first choice in temples for Nicomedia and Sinope should be Vahagan, as these two cities will be major recruitment centers for some time. Mazaka can get Vahagan, as well, but this is not as important as the first two.

At this point, you will now start attracting the attention of the Greeks who may begin sending marauding parties of hoplites in your direction. Good. You intend on sacking Pergamum anyway, so let them come. Thankfully, you will not likely see any Armored Hoplites, so your horse archers will rule the battlefield. Once you get enough Heavy Spears and recruit a few Cretan Archers, take Pergamum, and then declare war on Seleucia by sacking Sardis. Now it’s just a short hop down to Halicarnassus and voila…you now control two of the seven “Wonders”. To this point, there’s been absolutely no need for a navy…you’ve been prosecuting a land war and don’t have any use for shipping…until now. At this point also, the Big E will probably be in the final stages of eliminating Seleucia, and they usually have several very large naval stacks that will need to be dealt with. I begin by creating a Black Sea fleet safely out of reach until I can assemble a stack of triremes and at least one or two quinquiremes. This is sufficient to decimate any fleet Egypt sends your way, and if you are lucky enough to get an initial ‘sea master’ you might even see a “heroic victory” or two.

Cats are expensive (1170 denarii without governor or ancillary benefits for archers, 960 denarii for the heavy cats) and take two seasons to train, so you are unlikely to have more than three or four in any of your armies at this point. However, you have three easily defended bridges in the vicinity of Mazaka (usually the first target) and your Cretans will decimate Egyptian infantry while your cats have the chariot archers for lunch. This is why you choose Vahagan for your training centers. Once you get it to level three, you start getting the +2 experience bonus, and combined with an armory (at this point), it makes your life much, much easier.

After wiping out Egypt’s initial onslaught, you can now begin to think about going on the offensive. Tarsus and Antioch will be your first targets. Once these are captured, the writing is on the wall for the Pharaoh. Tarsus, with its built-in 35% unrest should get Armazd for law and order, and Antioch gets Vahagan. At this point, I move my capital to Antioch in preparation for further moves into the Middle East.

If you should come across the Egyptian temple of Horus in its temple city form….keep it! This is one of the few exceptions I make concerning other factions temples, which is usually the very first building I tear down upon capture to help with culture conversion. Horus, at level five has 5% better law and happiness than Armazd, grants very good management traits to family members, and to top it off , when combined with a foundry will upgrade heavy weapons AND missile weapons to gold status, something Vahagan cannot. Most commonly you’ll find it in Sidon, Jerusalem, or the Egyptian capital of Memphis.

By now you should be virtually rolling in denarii. With all the port trading and the “spice/silk road” trade, you won’t be able to spend all the gold you are now making. If you’ve seen any of my screenies from my Armenian campaigns, the denarii can get up into the millions!

Which now means that you can begin to turn your eye further west into Greece, if you so desire. Byzantium makes for a good initial foothold, and it’s just a short hop across the Dardanelles. Nothing the Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians, or Romans have can match up to you. The Romans, Greeks and Thracians are too infantry-heavy…you can ride circles around them while making them into pin cushions or simply trample them with a heavy cat charge, or both! The Macedonians have decent cavalry but usually rely too much on the light lancers to be of any threat, and they don’t produce enough Royal Pikes either, which is their best phalanx unit.

At this point, I’ll leave you to decide which direction to head. All your main rivals are now long gone…Seleucia, Pontus, Egypt, Parthia if you so desire….and now Rome awaits…….

Darth Feather
06-13-2012, 11:12
Nice.:2thumbsup: I had another reason to attack Pontus. This is because their infantery to begin with is as bad as the Armenian early infantery, but their cav is way inferior to armenia's cavalry.

ReluctantSamurai
06-17-2012, 22:35
While it's true that early Pontic cavalry is not so great, Pontic Heavy Cav can be a pain if you have only vanilla horse archers. Later Pontic cavalry is actually pretty good, IMHO. Besides the Pontic Heavy Cavalry, they get a Cataphract Archer, and Chariots, neither of which is easy to deal with. Their advanced roster is similar to Armenia in some respects (Cat Archers, Legionaries, and they get a Phalanx spear unit if my memory serves....

Vincent Butler
08-12-2014, 22:40
I agree with RS, forget about East or North, go West, young man, go West. I did with just two general and three HA's, and took Sinope, and Sardis after adding a general and HA. Barring Scythed Chariots, if you have one or two generals, Pontus should not be able to cause problems for your armies at that stage. You should build HA's as garrison until you have the money to support a regular garrison. Sally forth if you get put under siege. I almost went East, but then realized that that was not where the money was, so went West instead. North has nothing either, and South will give you nothing but a headache. Scythia may or may not strike for Kotais, so fortify Kotais and Artaxarta to defend you from Seleucid/Parthian/Scythian attack. The money is to be made in Turkey, and then you can strike for Greece to really boost your money supply. Parthia is not worth going after, as anybody who has started a Parthian campaign knows. Preventing their expansion should be enough to weaken them for when you do decide to go after them. It is better to stay on good terms with Egypt as long as possible, which taking Hatra and Seleucia would soon plunge you into war with them, which you will not be ready for early on.

williamsiddell
08-13-2014, 00:00
It is better to stay on good terms with Egypt as long as possible

From what I've seen Egypt likes to expand via Antioch and Tarsus. After that if you're on their border they attack :)

ReluctantSamurai
08-13-2014, 00:08
After that if you're on their border they attack

Aye, but the slick part here is that they have to cross one of three bridges to get at you. Unless Seleucia simply lays down and dies, you have some time to prepare. If the money is there, a couple of Cretan's will make your life much easier. You have the "tighter turning radius", so-to-speak, and can block any of the three bridges before the Big E can get there...you can force a bridge battle 99.99% of the time~:)

A similar confrontation happens when playing Pontus. Those three bridges save your butt until you can crank out enough high-quality troops to take the offensive.


I did with just two general and three HA's, and took Sinope, and Sardis after adding a general and HA.

I'm surprised you went after Sardis first before Mazaka and Nicomedia.

williamsiddell
08-13-2014, 00:31
My experience is coloured by only having played Greece in that area. I got into the habit of tip-toeing around Tarsus til I was ready. Strangely, when the Egyptians did move it was mostly toward Ancyra first.

Maybe Nicomedia and Ancyra are still rebel?

Vincent Butler
08-13-2014, 00:53
I'm surprised you went after Sardis first before Mazaka and Nicomedia.
I did not have the army to really take on a full Pontic army (I thought). Nicomedia would have been better, I think I was paranoid about Pontic Heavy Cav (I was later to learn the capabilities of HA's), and was neutral with Seleucia, so to keep it that way for a little while longer I went after Halicarnassus. Dumb move, I know it is bad to split up your empire and I know better than to do what I did. Now I still need to take Nicomedia or Ancyra (both Pontic) to get some trade going. Seleucia attacked my army in the field, I defeated them, so I just went after Sardis while I was in the area, no need to avoid war now. After seeing what that army did, I found out that there is no need to be paranoid about Pontus, generals can take care of the PHC while the HA's deal with the rest.

weejonnie
02-19-2018, 13:55
Well I'm running out of factions to play, so decided to Play Armenia as the last of the HA group.

When starting a new campaign, I always feel like "My forces are rubbish, my cities are rubbish how on earth will I survive?". This was obviously the case with Armenia with two cities stuck in the middle of nowhere, no one to trade with - and only one rebel-held area to absorb.

Sometimes foreknowledge is a curse. You KNOW Pontus will quite quickly upgrade to produce better troops - and the chariots can start appearing very quickly. You KNOW the Selucids can outproduce you. You KNOW that to the South the big bad boys in Yellow will be gearing up their Nile-delta Cities to produce troops and you KNOW that it is likely that by the time you get to take on the Brutii, they will have probably taken all of Greece (with their cities able to churn out Principes by the score).

As to the start - well obviously you take Phraaspa as soon as possible, if only to stop Parthia from doing so. Any city helps your cash flow.

I then spent the next few turns recruiting peasants and transferring them from Kotais to Artaxarta, keeping taxes there on low, in order to get up to Minor City Status. Money was basically spent on upgrading the buildings.

Once Artaxarta could be upgraded, I THEN raised taxes there, started recruiting HAs and looked around.

Scythia is too remote for rapid economic expansion, the Selucids would be easier to attack when Egypt came Knocking, so that left Pontus and Parthia. In view of Pontus's potential (I had met them when playing Numidia and they were a pain and found playing them quite easy) and that two large cities were available, that seemed the obvious direction to go.

So the next few turns were based on taking out Pontus - once the two large cities are taken the others are low-level, so I felt that the time had come to take out Parthia - Once Arsakia was taken, I could relax - leaving Campus Sakae on it's own. When Sousa was taken the faction heir was left with one companion to make his way up to the Campus Sakae.

The problem with Asia Minor is that the towns are absolutely rubbish - even Nicomedia will take some time to upgrade, so it was important to take Pergamum, (war with Greek Cities) which is the only really good town at the stage in the game. From there I moved South taking out Sardis (war with the Selucids), before moving on to Helicarnassus and (most importantly) Rhodes - for sea trade.

By this stage I began turning out heavy spearmen (great in the far-east campaign for dealing with things that go round on wheels, and much better than other infantry and CAs). When Tarsus and Selucid Fell, it was obviously time to deal with the Egyptians, while building up Pergamum preparatory to crossing the Hellespont.

My spies had noted that Antioch was now a good city, so my campaign started by capturing the city. The Egyptians responded by sieging it, but a) I had no worries should they attack it as the spearmen would handle any breaches and b) I had some reinforcements on the way, via the capture of Salamis. Once the siege was over, I had no hesitation in moving for Sidon and Jerusalem. In the far east the Egyptians also besieged Selucid, but a strong army took them out. I then made a mistake (of sorts). Another Egyptian army was approaching Susa, so I regrouped and moved to stop them. The Egyptian army retreated towards Dumatha and I accidentally set my army to beseige the town - with the result that I ended up there - with no infantry, and no way of recruiting infantry mercenaries. Fortunately the Egyptian Army attacked, drawing out the garrison and I was able to destroy both and take the city. The army then moved on to Bostra, where the same thing happened.

SO I now have a funny map position where two Selucid towns (Damascus and Hatra) and one Egyptian (Palmyra) are completely surrounded by my forces. There is still one large Egyptian army unfought.

I look across the sea to Greece - The Brutii are completing the mopping up of Greece (Corinth and Sparta still to go) and I await to see if they will try and come after me or then start moving up into Dacia. There are a lot of Brutii armies in Greece and if they decide to come across things will get messy as they will simply be able to out-produce me in good troops (of course they have tons of money, but are now spending it) - Macedon is virtually no more - they have one weak town on the Adriatic - and Cyrene - the first time that has happened in my games, but obviously I know it can.

So my current capabilities now include one city that can build Cataphracts, and a couple that can build Legionarries - do I build Cats or just CAs? And do I build Legionaries (2 goes a unit compared with 1 for Principes) or stick with heavy Spearmen? I always find Roman (pre Marius) forces just melt away under cavalry attacks as they have no spearmen. What I am really looking forward to, if possible) is to capture a city with a large temple of Artemis - +3 for missile weapons for an archery-based faction is ludicrous.

Vincent Butler
02-19-2018, 23:52
So my current capabilities now include one city that can build Cataphracts, and a couple that can build Legionarries - do I build Cats or just CAs? And do I build Legionaries (2 goes a unit compared with 1 for Principes) or stick with heavy Spearmen? I always find Roman (pre Marius) forces just melt away under cavalry attacks as they have no spearmen. What I am really looking forward to, if possible) is to capture a city with a large temple of Artemis - +3 for missile weapons for an archery-based faction is ludicrous.

Especially when you consider that Macedon's Artemis temples are for a faction that has only regular Peltasts and Archers as their missile units. Not only that, even their Pentheion to Zeus gives +2 to missile units. Obviously the idea is to get you to use Cretan Archers and Merc Peltasts/Illyrian Mercs heavily.

I guess tailor your armies to who you are fighting. If fighting Egypt, you want Cataphract Archers and Heavy Spearmen. If fighting Rome or a barbarian faction, you will certainly want regular Cataphracts; make sure to use your alternate attack against armoured units as that mace absolutely destroys legionaries. Even with regular generals such as Rome has the alternate attack is better than their primary attack, and the computer never uses the mace/sword for their cav, at least not on M/M. I would say use Heavy Spearmen as your main infantry, but not a bad idea to bring your legionaries along. They will get an advantage against spearmen, and once you face barbarians you will do well against them; bear in mind your legionaries are equivalent to Principes, I think stats are exactly the same.

weejonnie
02-20-2018, 22:39
Thanks - I now have a VERY interesting position.

The Brutii sent two stacks against Byzantium and seiged the city until I could land a second army there. I used one of my favourite tactics - which is the suicide battle. Basically you fight and lose a battle close to your town, knowing your forces will retreat back - and then replenish them before the seige starts. I sent two stacks towards Thessalonica and have just encountered 3 Brutii stacks - waiting to see what happens.

I cleared out the Selucid and Egyptian enclaves and have just taken Thebes (crossing the Red sea to do so). with the announcement that the Numidian faction is destroyed! Siwa has fallen and one has to assume the blues are coming. I have never known them to advance so quickly. (Egypt is down to Memphis and Alexandria).

The next few turns look to be very interesting - big 20v20 battles. Fortunately my troop centres (Jerusalem, Sidon, Antioch are much closer than the Julii (Carthage/ Tarsus) so I should be able to get reinforcements over. At the moment, I think it is a race to Memphis. If I take it then I should be able to throw the blues back quite easily. I would much prefer one army to seige Thebes - provided another is not coming too quickly.

Overall, one of the more interesting games played.

Vincent Butler
02-22-2018, 03:30
I would much prefer one army to seige Thebes - provided another is not coming too quickly.


Rome is capable of sending an infinite amount of double-stack armies to any given settlement at any time they so desire. Same with Egypt.

ReluctantSamurai
02-22-2018, 13:40
As to the start - well obviously you take Phraaspa as soon as possible, if only to stop Parthia from doing so

Interesting, but probably unnecessary. In all of my Armenian campaigns, Parthia mounted an attack on my domain maybe once or twice. Easily repulsed. But...

...you had the right idea eventually in going after Pontus, and the rest of Anatolia.


do I build Cats or just CAs

You will need both, but Cataphract Archers should take priority early on. They are quite capable of handling themselves in melee, should it come to that, and can take on just about all but the very elite in enemy cavalry.

Unit choices for armies is, of course, a matter of preference. My choices, as Armenia, fall into two categories by mid-game: roving attack armies comprised of nothing but Cats (both Heavy and Archers), and siege armies comprised of Cretan Archers, Heavy Spears, and Legionaires.

There is no army, Roman or otherwise, that can withstand an all-Cat army led by a Cavalry General. I take my best generals to head such an army, and they command nothing else. After enough victories, he will eventually become a Legendary Cavalry commander, Legendary Attacker, hell just about Legendary Everything~D All those bonuses stack, and when added to the pile of chevrons you should have, and gold armor/weapon upgrades...well you get the idea.

For desert fighting, take advantage of Arab Cavalry. With weapon/armor upgrades, they make an elite addition to any army. In desert conditions, they are the fastest cavalry unit in the game, bar none. They will run down fleeing cavalry units including enemy generals. Besides, cavalry dressed up in green and black and wielding scimitars, is just too cool~:smoking:

When fighting the Scipii out in the Libyan Desert, build a fort in a convenient location along the way to house replacements. It's a looong way to the nearest city....

p.s. (you should have read my Guide to Armenia~;) )

weejonnie
02-22-2018, 14:33
p.s. (you should have read my Guide to Armenia~;) )

Pretty sure I have - I always do background reading before enjoying a new faction.

Anyway - It is now about 227 or 228 BC - Uncle Marius in the background is no doubt dreaming of how to build the new Roman Armies. (Although in real life they did not kick in until 107bc). The Brutii are extinct and I have taken Capua, Syracuse, Carthage and the City on Sicily above Syracuse from the Scipii - Am now engaged in a naval clear-up of Julii vessels. The Scipii did send various stacks towards Egypt, but they took quite a few turns after I was forewarned they were approaching - and I ambushed them in the desert - usually 3 armies Versus one (with R&R in Thebes). With lots of money coming in, bribary is doing well - I never played the earlier versions so assume it is much more expensive in version 1.5. Just wondering how I shall take out Rome - in the past I have

1) Bribed the big army - probably D170,000 or so.
2) River battle on ford on Tiber
3) Lured the big army away from the City and send in a secondary army with onangers
4) Just fought the army on the battle plain

(I am expecting the Julii to send forces down Italy - good fun)

With regard to troops - I don't bother with legionarries - just heavy spearmen: ideal for towns, where you just stick your cretan archers/ CAs behind them and let them pepper the enemy, courtesy of Thessalonican arrows. (I am also not 'blobbing' Cats, stick 3 or 4 units together and nothing is going to stop them.)

Some general notes,

The awarding of experience seems pretty random - I have had a unit kill 200 of the enemy and get no experience whilst another unit in the same battle killed nothing, and no one died, and did gain experience.

Autoresolve is heavy on mercenaries - it allocates the losses pretty uniformly, so your prized cretan archers suffer much more than they do in real life.

Some factions take a lot longer to win than others - with Gaul it was relatively easy to take out the Romans before they got strong and the game was over in 55 years. With Armenia it takes a long time to get accross into Italy (or at least I did because my strategy was to take out Egypt first) - I have 45 regions only and whilst getting up to 50 and taking Rome won't take too long (2 Thracian cities are under seige, as is Lillybeum and Thapsus is next on the list - which together with Rome will make 50), obviously I want to clean everything up and make the world Romanless before quitting.

ReluctantSamurai
02-22-2018, 23:10
I am also not 'blobbing' Cats, stick 3 or 4 units together and nothing is going to stop them

Put 19 of them together with a general and the above 1...2...3...4 aren't necessary. Even Urban Cohorts are toast:shrug:

And the expense of such an army is mis-leading. A Cavalry general with movement traits and as many movement ancillaries as he can hold, can fight 4-6 battles on the attack, in the same turn. Cost effective when you consider how many foot-slogging armies you'd need to do the same.


Autoresolve is heavy on mercenaries

One should never auto-resolve with any mercs except perhaps Warbands, for that very reason...

Vincent Butler
02-23-2018, 19:56
One should never auto-resolve with any mercs except perhaps Warbands, for that very reason...

Amen to that. It seems that when I autoresolve with the Warband, they don't take many casualties. All other mercs do. I am more likely to fight battles where I am using mercs for that very reason. Later on, once I have established my cities and I don't need the mercs I have hired to bolster my numbers (usually Merc Hoplites or Peltasts), I combine my mercs and use them to take out random brigand armies. Those battles I do sim because I don't care.

The mercs I keep with my campaign armies I am very protective of, especially if they have additional improvements such as improved weapons or defense; they rarely even form part of my line, the ones I use the most for line fighting are Thracian/Bastarnae, Hoplites, Scutarii, and Warband. The Warband are so plentiful that I could really care less about them. Usually I keep Mercs in their hiring regions, say mercs from Spain I keep in Spain, because they are harder to replenish. Merc Peltasts are the most common ones I bring with me. They are plentiful anyway.

I use the Scythian Mercs (as Armenia, Scythia, or Parthia this would be meaningless because you can train horse archers) to rove and take out rebels as well. I can take fewer casualties because I can keep out of reach, and they can travel faster.

weejonnie
02-26-2018, 13:41
Ah well - the end of the campaign draws nigh. Some thoughts:

1) Dacia 'won' the barbarian battle (if you want to call them that), with Brittannia in next place and Spain holding on to their original holdings (+ Corduba). The Scipii took the central town in Spain and have one city in Northwest Gaul.

2) Armenia is basically all about Cataphract Archers. Once you get them all your troubles are over. TBH I am amazed that CAs are recruitable before Cs.

3) Taking Sparta and Thessalonica basically make CAs invincible +2 experience and +3 missile weapons (I also run my Cretan Archers and Rhodian slingers through the same mill - those stones and lead shot they throw really hurt.)

4) With Armenia, I much prefer waiting outside cities rather than storming them - you either get the city or they sally forth and basically get wiped out in an arrow storm. If I do storm then if I don't have to face stone walls, I just shoot arrows. With stone walls I sap so I can get the cavalry in. No doubt with an infantry-based operation, siege towers would be better.

5) Early in the game you need to weaponise at least one city by boosting its population via peasant transfer. Get that upgrade through and it gives you a tremendous advantage.

6) Although the advice is generally not to develop farming buildings, I find that this is not a problem. Later in the game it was the only way to increase revenue!

7) You don't need the temples of law/ happiness in cities unless there is inbuilt unrest (Corduba/ Jerusalem etc)

8) At the level I play, the Senate Army is basically a paper tiger - all you do is make sure you fight them on the ground you want.

9) Next stop : Macedon (they always do well in the area in my campaigns & no doubt will take out Italy pre Marius), Egypt (which should be a doddle) and finally Thrace - which is the last hard faction.

Vincent Butler
02-26-2018, 19:06
9) Next stop : Macedon (they always do well in the area in my campaigns & no doubt will take out Italy pre Marius), Egypt (which should be a doddle) and finally Thrace - which is the last hard faction.

Macedon always gets wiped out if not controlled by me, under the combined assault of the Brutii, Dacia, Thrace, and Greece. And sometimes Gaul, I have had Gaul decide they wanted to take Bylazora from me. But Warband don't fare too well against Levy and Phalanx Pikemen in a city. I think I have seen get powerful one or two times only. Occasionally, the Brutii are slow to attack them. But if Greece gets to Armoured Hoplites in any numbers, Macedon is Mace-done.

weejonnie
03-02-2018, 12:48
Well in my game - I went for Byzantium first of all and met a Thracian army with the same objective. They fought and lost badly which basically crippled them (and are now no more) - Then it was Athens (of course) and Kydonia/ Apollonia. (Reasoning that the Brutii would be coming over in numbers so I might as well kill them while they were weak. One problem about the lists screen is that you can tell when a faction gains a province and, especially early, you have a fair idea what it is.) So far it is mainly Light Lancer time. Greek Cities are down to Lillybaun (quite unusual to see them take it, usually the Scippii take Syracuse first). The Julii are sending forces down the east coast of Italy, with the occasional soldier seeing the return journey. You DO need to micromanage the Greek lancers much more than other cavalry as the charge is everything. I have a temple to Artemis on Kydonia for some reason, but otherwise it seems to be Ares all the way - no doubt Zeus as I get further away from the capital. Bylazora has Demeter as the poorest farming area, but the population is now zooming away. I will probably have to destroy it eventually (one thing I did notice - you don't get the farms + production unless you actually build at least land clearance.)

Vincent Butler
03-02-2018, 21:19
Sounds like your campaign is one of those that deviates from norm. Those are interesting, and depending on circumstances can be good or bad. Usually Kydonia has Athena's temple, if I remember correctly (or maybe no temple at all?), and you are right, Greece almost never takes Lilybaem. Maybe Macedon hit Kydonia, though that would be unusual as well.

If Greece has Lilybaem the Scipii might be weaker. Normally I would say that is good for Romans to be weak, but once Greece starts fielding their Armoured Hoplites, watch out. I much prefer to see the barbarians weaken Rome, which if I am not Rome I am a phalanx faction and can thus handle barbarians more easily than I can Rome.

If you are gaining power, then yes, strike for Rome quickly. Don't let them get powerful. The problem is, at least as far as I have found, I can usually keep two Roman factions weak, but the third always gets powerful. Usually that is due to geography and finances. I concentrate on the areas that make money; in the meantime, Rome gains power where I am not. By the time I am financially able to field three armies to deal with all sections that Rome hits (North Africa, Greece, Gaul/Spain), one Roman faction has gained a lot of power. The nice thing is if you are Greece, you can get to AH quickly, and you are in position to limit the Brutii and the Scipii. It is then easy to head up Italy, but by that time the Julii have gotten strong.