Thrace

[frogbeastegg]

This faction must be unlocked with game editing before you can play.

[Tzar Kaloyan]

There are some excellent guides on how to succeed in RTW in general. You would do well to read them! There is no point of repeating any of them here; instead, let me tell you what I did to succeed for Thrace in the short campaign on very hard/very hard – I advise you to always play on very hard as anything else will be a tremendous waste of time. The AI is hardly challenging!

As Thrace, you start in little corner on the Balkan peninsula, south of Scythia, east of Dacia and Macedonia. Since I have already played for Dacia (and shared my thoughts in the guide there), the region was very familiar to me. So, first order of military business was capturing Byzantium from the rebels – it is a very profitable city. To do that, move your spy to reveal where the city is, take the Auxiliary Cavalry from your capital, merge it with the army of your heir and move to Byzantium.

In your two cities, raise taxes to max and set roads in the building queue. Your diplomat should move to Dacia (north-west) to sign an alliance and sell maps and get trade rights. I did not want war with Dacia at the moment. You are done for turn One.

Turn Two: move your Spy in Byzantium. He will reveal the presence of 2 Hoplites and 1 Peltasts. Most importantly, he will give you a 32% chance to open the gate when you attack, this same turn! In my case, it worked and I saved a turn of siege.

The battle for Byzantium is of medium difficulty. The Peltasts were at the gate and were quickly over-run by my general’s cavalry without any loss of life on my side. Then move the Auxiliary Cavalry to irritate the two phalanx units. My missile troops managed to reduce the enemy count. Use your falxmen to finish the job. I am sure somebody on the web has written at length about fighting with and against phalanxes in RTW. I haven’t looked for it, so I had to invent my own way through experience. Here is my approach:

Use the two units of falxmen to attack the phalanx from two opposite sides. The unit that is facing the phalanx will face a very tough time, so make sure you pull it back a little just as they engage it. The unit attacking from behind will do most of the killing. Don’t waste your time charging with your general – I did that and even attacking in the rear cost me immediately 3 dead horsemen. The phalanx is really tough on cavalry.

All in all, if you lose more than 50 men in capturing Byzantium, you probably didn’t manage the battle right. Normal losses should be about 35-40. Upon capturing the city, you don’t need to enslave or kill the population as there are only 2,000 or so of them and they won’t give you much trouble.

For the next couple of turns, move your diplomat to talk to the Dacians and your spy towards the Macedonians. Build a second diplomat. Money should start flowing quickly, as I am sure by now you have built roads, mines or land clearance in various of your cities.

I offered a packaged deal to the Dacians – alliance, trade rights and map information. After some haggling, they agreed on 4-turn tribute at 750 per turn. Not rich, but accomplished the goal of an alliance.

Use your faction leader to put a couple of towers, particularly on the border with Macedonia. Putting towers on the boarder and on ‘blind’ spots in your territory is always a good move – it prevents surprises from enemies and it also allows you to spot if rebels are disrupting your trade routes.

Since we are talking about family members, let me also offer this advice – manage their retinues well! If you have a management-improving retinue on a family member you are planning to use as your conquering general, then the retinue won’t be helping you most of the time! Instead, transfer it to a governor you plan to keep inside a city. Second, give your young family members some chance to sit in a city and get married. The last thing you want is to have no heirs!!! Ensure the future.

On the other hand, if you have enough children already, it may be a good idea to start working on a young general early, if that particular family member has no good management characteristics. I got a youngster, Ziles in 268 BC, that had bad management vices, so I decided to turn him into a general and use my aging leader as a governor!

My plan was to concentrate at first on the easy targets – the rebel-controlled cities in the Mediterranean. This will allow me to get the buildings to produce quality troops, as well as to give my enemies a chance to produce quality troops as well! After all, what fun is there to win easy victories!!! For this plan to work, I needed a port in Byzantium.

Just as I made that plan, a large Pontus army disembarked right next to Byzantium. I sold them maps and trade rights, hired mercenaries right there, moved an army from the capital and prepared for their obvious attack. Pontus signed even an alliance with me, but I was not fooled! A diplomat was sent to sign a hasty treaty with the Macedonians and to hire a rebel army in their territory. Macedonians agreed to an alliance and paid 4,000 for maps and trade rights. Scythians paid 5,000 for maps and trade rights. Thus, fairly early, I had a huge war chest, but very little in terms of hirable troops.

Next turn the Pontus besieged Byzantium. You already knew it, so, I am assuming you are prepared for it. I bribed two more armies from Macedonian territory (note: it is much cheaper to bribe rebel armies than it is to build the same army or to hire mercenaries!) and took them home.

Over the next 3 turns I stalled with Pontus, bribed a couple of rebel armies every turn (got lucky with the rebels) and managed to convince Pontus to accept ceasefire. The following turn I see Pontus went to war with the Seleucids. One would think they will need their strongest army and the faction heir for that war, but he continued to stand right next to Byzantium! After giving him 2 more turns to reconsider, I attacked.

Why wait so long you will ask? Well, try attacking that Pontus army and you will understand. He had 2 units of heavy cavalry in addition to the general’s bodyguard, there was also a unit of light cavalry, archers, peltests and a 5 units of spearmen, if I recall correctly. All this force was lead by an able general. When I finally attacked, I had 4 militia hoplites, 3 units of Thracian mercenaries, 4 units of peltests, 2 illirians, and 5 units of various cavalry. The odds were 4:3, but with Pontus on the defense (and sure to take a hill), I felt they had the better force. The battle started hard (AI on the hill), but the AI showed no initiative! My missiles ran supreme, routed 3 spearmen before the fight even started, my 3 cavalry units ganged on the unprotected general and killed him and once the hoplites finally showed up on top of the hill, it was all over. Man, does the AI do a poor job fighting: it lost over 600 men while only inflicting 122. So, don’t be afraid of the AI! Attack!

From here on, you should be strong enough to build up. The Thrace economy is excellent and Nicomedia and Crete are easy picking. Keep the war away from your money-making cities and decide who will go after next. Overall, of the three factions (other than the Romans) I have played in campaigns with, Thrace is second in terms of starting difficulty (Dacia was easier, Spain was quite hard). Enjoy.

[sapi]

Pontus is fine as long as you sign an agreement before they cross to your territory. You must keep your eyes on everyone, despite solid alliences at the beginning, (in my game) macedon, daicia and sycthia attacked me, breaking my allience. In fact, only the pontic people stayed true. It really helps if you ally wiht the greeks (after taking some of their good territories :charge: :) ), as this surrounds the macedonians for an easy kill. Their cavalry are your main problem, as your phalanxes are hard to get and nowhere near as strong as the macedonian ones. You need numbers to succeed.

I'm currently working on getting rome allied to me so i can pound daicia and sycia in peace!

[Maltz]

From the reply and view counts, I guess Thrace is rather an unpopular faction. Indeed, Thrace does not have a lot of "character". It sits between prosper and barren; its hybrids between the barbarian and Greeks. There is no ultimate killer unit in Thrace, meaning if our campaign is dragged too long and the enemies develop well, Thrace is gonna suck and sink. Yep, I can't think of a reason why people will be a Thrace fan; perhaps they were Imagawa fan in STW. (same color)

The bright side is Thrace is quite powerful early on. The 2nd level melee infantry is falxmen, powerful attack and decent defense. Can't really beat them easily! The 1st level ranged unit is peltasts, not bad for melee as well. 2nd level ranged unit is archer, which is quite standard. The 1st level cavalry is jav. cav. (militia cavalry). Missle cavalry is always useful - you better learn it. As you can see, with a mixture peltasts-falxmen-archers-militra cavalry, your army is very healthy. Numidia only has peltasts and jav. cav. and we could survive. ~;)

I just played as Thrace for about 5 yrs. Same as Dacia, I ignored all rebels and poured all my starting army south to get rid off Macedon. There are a few hard battles, but generally speaking any able-minded, brave-enough player can handle them. ~:cheers: AI Macedon has a killing weakness - its cavalry is way faster than its phalanx. So there are always 20-30 seconds to defeat cavalry first, then kill the pikemen next. Any 2 unit can kill a pikeman. The key of avoiding casaulty - I am sure you already know - is not to charge face-on in the first place. charge from the side/back instead.

*** some updates ***

Now it is 9 yrs into the campaign and I own 18 provinces: the entire Balkan up to the point of Dacia territory, plus the former Brutii. Dacia had some last big battles with my new clan leader, which are very exciting. Scipii is about to lose Capua. Senate army got a plague from somewhere... poor.

For all Greek towns I just "occupied", because there is no cultural penalty. (Good to be in the greater Greek family!) Falxmen saved a lot of days, while the addition of archers certainly helped sieges a lot.

***

There is certainly some fun factor in Thrace, just uncharacteristic. Not very easy, nor very hard to play... ~D

[HopAlongBunny]

Pretty standard Greek faction.

The falxmen are pretty nice; if you can get anything pinned to your phalanx they are even better ~:)

Macedonia comes after you early and their cavalry is annoying; I lured a huge stack of mainly lancers into a bridge battle_that was the end of the cavalry and the end of my problems ~:)

Scythia doesn't put up much of a fight; odd when you think of how good HA's can be in this game-there seems to be a steady supply of HA merc's on the steppes.

If you play a long campaign go after Brutii sooner rather than later. If you've taken out the Macedonians and Greeks there isn't anything else for them but YOU :duel: Given time, their army will be huge when it arrives. When playing as Greece I went for Brutii almost immediately_do the same as Thrace and mid-game will be much easier.

Very nice infantry line-up and seems to have all the tools.

[EAGLESQUAD]

i liked thrace because u can easely rebuild the byzantum empire. scythia is rather peacefull.. and just bribe when a army comes near campus gatea.. this also counts for dacia army. when macadinia attacked i took bylazora, wich for i had to figth my falxmen vs much calavery. than i signed peace, i let the macadionans as a border between brutti, greece and me. in the beginning i took byzantum and nicomedia and let the pontic sign a ceasefire. than greek attackd nicomedia.. i let them pay.. and now im gana attack all turkeys harbor/citys/// (pergamum, sardis, halicarnus) 2 wonders + very rich.
i like thrace because of ther pikemen wich are defencive great. and there ( :embarassed: forgot there name: they look like tracian mercanairys but a bit stronger and they can be build) they are good attackers.. (or pikemen in the mid and they + falxmen on the sides to flak.
i now have a rather small empire but im very rich. soon ill take out dacia and thessalonica. thracia is very fun to play with ~:)

[sapi]

The thing that turns many people off thrace is that phalanx pikemen can only be gotten after about 20-30 turns. the macedonians can get them in 4.

[BlackStrider]

Pontus didnt bother me atall. I felt that going straight for Dacia led me into a strong position against Macedon. Signing an alliance with Brutii took some time but it works to you advantage. Whislt they battle away with Macedon's big armies, you pop away at their towns. They provide a great economy.

[soibean]

I went for dacia too... I took 3 cities and just about saw the end of their armies for quite some time

[The Apostate]

Played several campaigns on VH/VH/Huge Thrace and was wiped out every time before 250.

My problem was that until you can build phalangites you have nothing that can stand up to the stacks full of lancers that Macedon throw at you.

While falxmen and peltasts should be able to deal with the early Mac militia pikemen they usually do not get a chance to flank them as they are routed by the lancers.

The lack of decent cavalry is a real problem and totally unhistoric - Thracians were famous horsemen and should probably have light lancers of their own.

They should probably also have Getic horse archers (the Getae were a Thracian tribe that adopted HA from the Scythians).

Shame - as with better cavalry the phalanx, peltasts, falxmen and archers should make a good combination at least in the early game.

A simple and more historic alternative would be to give the Thracians militia pikemen at level 2 as well as light lancers and horse archers at level 2.

They should also have a Thracian noble cavalry unit at level 3 - a tougher version of the barbarian unit.

It also seems rather unfair that whereas the Greeks and Macedonians get extra experience from their temples of Ares, the Thracians only get a + to morale - rectifying this would at least give them the upgrades to stand up to the Brutii in the middle game.

(Have used RTR but can't get on with it - too many dubious and unnecessary additions).

Think I will try once more using an all-out rush at the Macedonians before they can build the lancer hordes....

[Ignoramus]

Here is my Thracian Guide:
I have gone extremely well with Thrace, because they have falxmen and pikemen.

After a few turns, I quickly captured Porrolisium, the Dacian Capital, it is very easy to defend this settlement, because it is surrounded on all sides with impaasable mountains, except for 4 passes. Simply build a fort in each of the passes, and you're impregnable!

Then, I quickly moved south and captured Byzantium, an important settlement guarding the channel into the Black Sea.

Unfortunately, soon after this Macedon attacked me, I had a difficult time with them and very soon I lost Byzantium and Tylis, the Thracian Capital.

I changed my capital to Porrolisium, as it is much easier to defend. And then I gathered a smallish army of about 600 there.

I marched my army to Byzalora, recruiting mercenaries as I went, which was ill-defended by Macedon, only 100 men there or so, and promtly stormed it. I only occoupied it, because I need the income from the settlment, and a new training base on the front line.

Then, I delibrately accepted becoming a Macedonian Protectocate, so they would lift the siege of Byzalora. Then, I delibrately offered them a gift, and they quit the Protectocate.

I was next planning on attacking Dacia more, but then I got attack by an army of the House of Brutti. The odds were even, but I had my General's Cavalry and a unit of Sarmatian Cavalry(Mercenaries) with me, and they had none. I easily defeated their Hastati-Velitite army, and marched northwards toward Northern Italy, and recruited more mercenaries.

I delibrately by-passed Patavium, as I didn't want to invoke the Gaul's wrath. I easily defeated a few one-unit Julii armies, and marched into Latium.

The Senate, quite stupidly, left their main army out of reach from Rome, and only had about 200 men in their city. I quickly besieged it, and constructed as many Siege Towers/Ladders as I could. I ended the turn expecting a Senate attack, and suprisingly although they could have easily reached me, didn't attack.

The next turn, I assulted Rome. With 1000 men at my disposal, and the Senate's puny 200, it was a relatively easy storming, although it did get quite close to the time limit.

That's how I conquered Rome in 20 years. Hope you enjoy it, and maybe use the general guide yourself.

Cheers!

[Claudius Maniacus Sextus]

iv hit asia minor with an 16 year old gen. some hoplites falx but cav or archers.after 2-3 battles iv got my gen to 10stars and then i captured all of asia minor and my new borders are with armenia,greek cities,bruti and dacia.after that dacia attacked,so i cap. their 2 starting reg. and now battling brutii in grecce.i won thesalonic,byzalora,athens,and one more(cant remeber the name,but it is right next to thermon).

[abortretryfail]

playing consul/consul RTR

I have left the Dacians alone at the beginning and concentrated on the macedonians who are much more aggressive towards me. Early offensives against them are a must, they will always come for you with 3/4 stacks and you have to destroy their production capacity even if you cannot hold the province afterword (read: slash and burn policy). Even if the Scythians ally with the macedonians and attack from the north it still makes sense to concentrate forces southwards against Macedon. Then Scythians can be beaten w/ Militia and mercs, save your falxmen for the southern enemy. I left Byzantium alone at the beginning and took the macedonian province of Phillipi instead, deals them a blow and I can always go back for Byzantium. Whenever you increase you frontage try to take it from Alex's kids, the rebeles are trifling by comparison. Like any other faction, once your economy reaches critical mass you basically cant be stopped. The money is so tight at the beginning I broke my self imposed rule of not selling maps to get over the hump. By the time I didnt need to sell them anymore every single faction in the known world had a very expensive, high quality map of Thrace. I dont see how you can raise the funds neccesary to expand in time without doing this.

[Mountaindew]

hmmmmm just wondering...i know that this is not relevant to "RTW Guides", but is there a mod or fix that i can do to access production of phalanxes after i built the city barracks, cos the phalanxes where replaced with the bastarnaes, and i need the phalanxes!

neway, heres my 2 cents...

diplomacy is really very important, and it certainly helped me in the beginning-selling trade rights, alliances, map info...managed to get about a tribute of 700-2000 for 4-7 turns :), which really accelerated my economy...hmmmm...i guess it will work with all factions. i managed to get 10,000+ payment from egypt for just map info! very nice...(well, it was Medium/Medium... ~:handball: :embarassed: )

one of the more subtle strategies i had was to leave the hellenic factions alone, except for macedon (15 province objectives...) and expand elsewhere-eastern europe, italy, sicily, north africa, by passing greece. this way, when all the hellenic factions (seleucid, greeks) declare war, i just bribe armies, to swell my numbers, and then, crush the fellow greeks... :charge:

[Cronos Impera]

(270-265) BC-> Take Ziles and march towards Macedonia,conquering Thesallonica.Bribe all standing Macedonian armies and besiege all cities.Meanwhile take your other diplomat (presouming you trained one) and ally yourself with The Brutii.Then train a spy in Thesallonica and wait for the plague ~D .Send him to visit Dacia and Scithya,if he lasts that long.If you are lucky, all rival fammily members will be dead or dying and their armies will be crippled. Take the diplomat and bribe Sagestica and Salona, then head towards Patavium.Bribe the settlement, as it should cost about 5000 denarii todo so.Pillage all buildings and ~D sell the settlement to the Gauls back for 100 denarii. It will rebel and the Gauls can't do a thing. Increase the tax to V.High in Greece( Thesallonica,Corinth and Athens).Take Byzntium with 6 Peltasts and 2 Missile Cav. The rest is legend :bow:

[Reptido]

Just a quick note here: I'm by no means a veteran RTW player. My expierience is limited to a number of short campaigns. However, I am a Total War veteran and I've been successful with my campaigns (so far!) so I figure, what the heck, might as well throw my own two cents into this guide as no one else is!

Chapter 1

Thrace is not an easy faction to play as. They are an odd mix between a Greek faction and a barbarian one. They include barbarian units such as Falxmen, and depend a lot on Peltasts and Militia Cavalry. On the other hand, Militia hoplites are the name of the (quite diffucult) game early on.

You begin with two provinces on the western coast of the Black Sea. Both are relatively poor early on, so raise taxes to 'very high.' The public order consequences aren't huge, so don't worry about. Next, queue up roads in your settlements. It's important for any faction to have decent roads, and Thrace is no different. You'll find without roads, transporting units to other settlements becomes a tedious job.

It's still your first turn. Have your spy begin the long trek to the Macedonian cities you border. The Macedonians will stab your back at any chance they get. This makes them a target early on. Take your diplomat and move up toward Dacian territory for an alliance and trade rights.

Your final move for the first turn is to move your faction leader's army toward Byzantium in the southeast. Byzantium is not so much of a gold mine in RTW as it was in the previous game, but nonethless it provides a much needed economic boost early on.

On the second, consider how much land clearance will take away from your treasury. If you want to take that risk of having your treasury decreasing more and more, than go ahead and do it. Personally, I chose to build some shrines for better public order. Another option is a barracks in Campus Graetea.

On the diplomatic side of things, continue moving your diplomat toward Dacian territory. Your spy should continue on his way to Bylazora or Thessalonica, which ever Macedonian city is closer.

Set Byzantium under siege and construct a battering ram. For this next turn, keep your building projects down; your treasury was low to begin with! Your agents should continue onward and perhaps will reach their target this turn. Offer the Dacians an alliance and trade rights and they should accept if you don't demand anything.

The battle for Byzantium is an easy one. Use your Militia Cavalry to shoot the Hoplites as much as they can. As soon as the gates been breached, use your General's cavalry to exploit the hoplite's flank, as they begin to pull back to the city center. Take the Militia Cavalry and chase down the Peltasts who are heading back to the town square. Use standard pin and flank tactics on the second unit of Hoplites and the city is yours.

Well, that's it for now. You've got a successful power base and some income.

[cunobelinus]

bastarne and falxmen are really good and then they have phanlanx men that finish it off there well good

[Craterus]

remember though, that bastarnae are expensive mercenaries and at the start of a thracian campaign, money is quite scarce...

[cunobelinus]

yer but falxmen arent that expensive nether are phalanx men .so that aint true

[Craterus]

I like falxmen, but I don't like Hoplites, they're a pretty rubbish unit but nonetheless a phalanx ~D but then again, I'm not an infantry commander. ~:cool:

[cunobelinus]

i think hoplites arent very good becasue they dont have very long pikes i think phalanx are much btter adn thracens dont have many units

[Craterus]

"Not many units.." This is why I think A thracian campaign could get boring quite quickly. ~:cheers:

[cunobelinus]

i got bored quickly coz u dont have many i took macedon and greece ad=nd then got bored and lost alot of land to the romans

[Craterus]

I'm sure the Romans would come before the Marian reforms so you would have a good chance of opposing them. If you have some armies capapble of taking Macedon and Greece, you should have an army capable of taking on the Romans.. ~;) You should percevere and try to win some campaigns rather than giving up all the time!!

[pezhetairoi]

The Thracians have a) a very unremarkable unit array, b) a terribly faceless army that has no character (hoplite? barbarian horde? disciplined melee? it's a little of each and none of all), c) an unenviable starting position. Oh, did I mention the snake sigil of theirs SUCKS? not to mention they're historically supposed to be more cavalry-capable than the militia and greeks that're all they can field. But that said, their main problem is surviving the early stages. As I see it, since the best they've got is Bastarnae, which isn't very good anyhow, they'll need a very mercenary-based strategy to win. Like Carthage in history.

[katank]

The bastarnae mecs are expensive mercs. However, the Thracians can build real bastanae which is their highest level infantry unit.

These bastarnae are actually really tough little buggers with 2 hp. Furthermore, they are fast which means that on a run, they are not significantly slower than cav and are strong flankers/shock troops.

Falxmen are also one of the strongest 2nd level units in terms of pure melee ability. Unfortunately, the Thracian version does not have warcry which puts a damper on this otherwise fantastic unit.

Thrace is indeed quite unappealing. It's the last faction that I tried. I would beg to differ with taking of Byzantium.

I personally like to make a beeline for Thessalonica and leave Byzantium for after Larissa and Byzalora is taken.

This allows me to get to the rich lands of Greece faster along with cash from exterminations and access to higher level troops. For example, with Thessalonia, you can have phalanx pikemen right away instead of having to wait for your cities to develop.

[pezhetairoi]

Oh okay... are the stats for Thracian bastarnae any higher than those of the mercs? Hmm, Thrace would certainly be the last faction I tried, too. Even Numidia seems more interesting. Hmmm... Isn't Byzantium a rich settlement too, once you build a port at it?

[katank]

The Thracian Bastarnae have 8/14/6 while the merc bastarnae have 7/11/8. This is charge/attack/defense

Both versions have 2 hp. The mercs actually have more balanced stats. However, since they are meant to be flankers/shock troops, the Thracian version is preferable. Combine them with a wall of phalanx pikes to hold the center, you have a killer infantry force.

The Thracians will be great if they had better cavalry. They should probably have access to Barbarian noble cav or Scythian nobles or equivalent. They have a proud equestrian tradition not reflected in the game. They only have slightly better general's cav than greek ones which seems inadequate.

[tibilicus]

I agree a few pikes mixed with Bastarnea add a few archer (Createns for the ultimate force) A few cav mainly generels and youve got yourself one nice lineup. ~D

[Craterus]

I agree a few pikes mixed with Bastarnea add a few archer (Createns for the ultimate force) A few cav mainly generels and youve got yourself one nice lineup. ~D

How about Phalanx Pikemen, Bastarnae, Bastarnae Mercs, Cretan Archers, maybe Militia Cav, General's Bodyguard and don't forget the Falxmen.

[katank]

No need for bastarnae mercs and bastarnae as it's redundant. Cretans and militia cav are great additions though. Falxmen are unnecessary if you have the Bastarnae unless you are tight on budget which you should be by that point that you can recruit bastarnae.

[Craterus]

I put them (bastarnae mercs and falxmen) in to add a little variety to the army. I've noticed people feel the Thracian "roster" is very limited, so I was trying to add a little variety ~D ~D

[Bruzhev]

Currently playing a campaign as thrace and have found them to be pretty fun actually, though maybe this is because the slightly incompetent AI (set on medium...) keeps charging its roman generals right into my phalanxes ~D. Anyway, thrace has easy sources of income (byzantium as both trade and mining, and 2 other mining provinces near start which can be gotten quickly from dacia), decent units, very good mercs (which the mines should help you cough up money for) around starting position.

[pezhetairoi]

As someone quoted in the game said, (was it Silius something?) 'Infinite money are the sinews of war.' But war gets a little boring after awhile if you've got nothing to look forward to besides the same ol', same ol'. That said, Thrace is better than Macedon in that it's got infantry that can protect the flanks of the phalanx that ISN'T a phalanx. (wow.)

[Craterus]

Good point. I really hate to use infantry, even less spearmen, as you may know. I was thinking about a campaign with Macedon but after discovering their lack of infantry, it put me off.

[cunobelinus]

hopefully in this new expasion pack(babrian envasion)realeased soon they will have more units for all factions because i think that in some factions there aint many units such as thrace that was disapointing because they are in a good postion and i was hoping to have a game with these i did but because the lack of men i got bored quite quickly even though i enjoyed the infrantry
does any one have any info on the expansion pack !!!?!?!?!?! coz my rome total war cd has gone bust so i need to buy it again but i dont no wether to wait and buy togther so pleas ether send me private message or through this thread

[Craterus]

There are threads in the colosseum regarding the expansion pack.
Personally, I would like to see Thrace with more cavalry because they were known to have some formidable cavalry in history.

[pezhetairoi]

Aye, me too. But you know, Craterus, talking about Macedon, it isn't all that bad? Knowing you are a good cavalry commander, Macedon has a pretty decent array for you too... You could just use the phalanx as bait while your Light Lancers or Companions run riot...

[Craterus]

Before every battle, I sort out a line, including phalanxes if I have them..

When it comes to fighting the battle , the phanlanx will not move unless anything ets to them.. I spend all this time making sure they are deep enough, right position etc, and in the end I never use them..

[cunobelinus]

yer i no what u mean wen we do joint campaign u go fighting off with the horses and the phalanxes never move unitl i say anything or they never do anything i no u shouldnt move phalanxes but its annoying wen u do that

[Craterus]

Why thank-you.. You should know how I fight, infantry is there as a last resort, spearmen are there as a last last resort...

[pezhetairoi]

hmm, then why not build an all-cavalry macedonian army drawing scythian mercenaries from Scythia?

[katank]

You know that you can turn off phalanx to move them into position and then turn phalanx back on at the destination? They don't move any slower than normal infantry. With all your cavalry expertise, you must realize how strong cav is in this game, overpowered really.

Phalanxes are great for killing enemy cav. Use them well. Also, they serve as the perfect anvil to the hammer that is your cav. Using phalanx and cav in roughly equal amounts can yield great result especially if you throw in some missiles for support. Use the meatgrinder and lasting ability of the phalanx. They are practically invulnerable from the front if stacked.

[Bruzhev]

Try charing thracian basternae at something in the woods... got a decent 6:1 kill ratio vs greek city armored hoplites for me

[Craterus]

Also, they serve as the perfect anvil to the hammer that is your cav.

Anvil and Hammer, that's how Alexander used phalanxes and that's the metaphor they used..

I'm having some practice with phalanxes online at the moment so I should be ready for a campaign with Macedon or Greek Cities soon.

I don't like Scythian mercenaries but they are better than the Scythian Horse Archers that Scythia can build..

Thracian Mercs and Bastarnae Mercs are good mercenaries.. Can Thrace get Sarmatians from their starting provinces?

[katank]

Actually, the Scythian mercs are worse than the Scythian HAs. They have no armor 0/2/0 compared with 3/2/0 for armor/defense/shield.

Scythian HAs are better than the Parthian/Armenia ones due to the 3 extra armor.

Sarmatians are accessible in the Steppe, Armenia, and Dacia merc pools. You have to travel either north or west to hire them. They initialize at 0 so you have to wait from 7-10 turns for 1 to be generated.

[Craterus]

Shame, they are a great cav, especially for Thrace who hasn't got that kind of cavalry except generals.. HA's aren't meant to get involved in melee, I judge missile units on their missile attack

[katank]

Still, the addition of 3 armor makes them far better in a missile duel. Missile units are inevitably going to run into missile duels one day.

[Craterus]

Yeah, of course..

[pezhetairoi]

Thrace is normally expected to expand west into Dacia and south into Macedon, so I suppose it will only be a matter of time before Thrace gets Porrolissum and access to the Sarmatian pool.

Scythian mercenaries are crappier than authentic HA, but I guess it's all non-Scythian players have to work with, so... :-(

[katank]

Depends on what you mean by authentic. Parthia and Armenia's authentic HAs are equal to the Scythian mercs. They are only worse than the Scythia HAs which seem overpowered, the best basic HA available with only a muster field (town level).

[Craterus]

I think the 'authentic' Scythian HA's are incredibly stupid and unlike any other HA's I've ever used, they don't know the meaning of "skirmish" and/or "RUN AWAY!!!" .. they wait until they are close enough to be surrounded and then run away.. and then they decide they'd rathey try and fight rather than run away when I tell them to. Therefore, most of them die.

[pezhetairoi]

...they're impetuous. Nothing we can do about that 'cept watch them verrrrrrry closely. It happens that once I break down a settlement's gates and double click on the town square guard with my horse archer unit, they charge right for the unit instead of galloping to bowshot range and raining them with arrows. ...Impetuous. AND eager, to boot.

And their skirmish mode is pretty screwy too, cos they'll only run from units that they are targetting. I thought intelligent skirmish mode meant they refrain from contact with -all- enemy units. Oh well.

Mmm, I suppose given that Scythia was -the- HA race in the past, I'm not surprised it's the most overpowered.

But, anymore of this and it should go to the Scythia thread :-P

[katank]

Someone possibly move it.

Usually, when you are already in an impetuous charge, it's better to let the unit follow it through and hopefully do some damage instead of trying to turn it away only to be slammed by the enemy unit in the flank while maneuvering.

Impetuous charges get +2 to morale in MTW and I think it carries over into RTW so it's not always a bad thing.

The skirmish mode will work for any unit if you don't handtarget enemy units.

That's why after handtargeting enemy units, after it's weakened or destroyed. I quickly tell all my HAs to stop which lets fire at will take over and this lets them avoid all enemies.

[pezhetairoi]

Oh cool... nice info on targeting, thanks! But impetuous charge morale bonuses are pretty useless when your horse archers are going to charge into a phalanx when you wanted them to rain them with arrows...

In other news, I lost a family member ganging up on the Spartan hoplite garrison of Sparta even though I pounded them from all sides with 7 units of shock cavalry >.< Oh well. He wasn't too good in terms of traits.

[katank]

That's true. Hoplites are another matter. I'm referring to other light cav or even infantry skirmishers. If they turn and is caught by a countercharge on the flank, then it's over. Might as well follow through.

Hoplites are slow and thus can't catch you with a countercharge. Besides, the effect of following through on a hoplite unit is total destruction so there is no point in doing so.

[pezhetairoi]

Ah, light troops, I see. But sometimes your horsearchers charge into other infantry formations, and that's where you're screwed. I'd rather turn and risk the chance of an enemy countercharge, than to follow it through and see severe losses by the time the charge is over, even if the unit doesn't break. I value my HA's arrows more than their short swords. Of course, there are limits, like if there are cavalry nearby I have no choice but to throw that charging unit away and make the best of it by rear-charging the enemy cavalry when he comes to charge my HA.

But, Thrace! Thrace! LOL. I'm thinking of modding my Thracian faction so they can build Light Lancers, but with a lower charge bonus. At least that'll give them some decent starter cavalry besides that joke they call Militia Cavalry. Views?

[Es Arkajae]

I'm finding Thrace to be a good faction with some nice advantages, mainly to do with location, it has some good buildable units (see below) but its access to multiple mercenary pools and some of the best mercenaries in the game is its main advantage.


Thrace can build phalanx pikemen and bastarnae, these two units make an excellent combination. Earlier on you can use falxmen or Thracian mercs until you can build bastarnae (mecenary bastarnae are also good but a bit pricey in early). In the very early game you should use militia hoplites or mercenary hoplites to try offset the Macedonian lancers if you have to. Lancers when its all said and done are very weak units once their charge is over.

As regards cavalry the Thracians get only militia cavalry (which is a good fast unit) and Greek cavalry, however Thracia is ideally located with easy access to FOUR mercenary pools, three of which have Sarmatian mercenaries and one of which has Scythian horse archers. The two easiest pools to access are the Scythian and Dacian pools and it is possible using a general starting off in Campus Getae to recruit in BOTH pools and have the recruited Sarmatian and horse archer mercs halfway to Tylis all in the same turn.

And once you take Byzantium its just a quick hop across the Bosphorus to grab some Cretian archers or if you're really desperate for Sarmatians a further boat journey to Pontic lands where you can hire them there too and swiftly return.

Thus all the guys whining about lack of cavalry simply haven't been using their noggins, either that or they really can't handle cavalry properly if they keep losing so much of their cavalry in battles that the merc pools can't keep up with demand.~D

With all this in mind it is quite possible and indeed quite simple to eventually have armies consisting of phalanx pikemen, bastarnae, Cretian acrchers, horse archers, Sarmatian cavalry and Illyrian mercs for skirmishers if your plain peltasts aren't enough. A potent force which the Romans are going to be bitchslapped by.

Also keep in mind that the Temple of Ares the Thracians can build can give valuable morale upgrades making Thracian built units harder to break than the norm.

[pezhetairoi]

Nay Arkajae, you haven't been reading the earlier posts closely enough. Inter linea, buddy :-D We were talking about Thrace's -buildable- units as a faction, which have a hodgepodge flavour with no amount of variety (as compared to the other factions, Thrace has way less unit choices).

If you did read above, I believe you would notice I did mention myself the amazing range of mercenaries Thrace had and the fact that it would have to base its campaign strategy on mercs. But the point being, mercs do not make the faction. It's what it can build that is its soul. And what it can build isn't much.

And, sorry 'bout the tone above if it offends you...'m feeling a little grouchy today thanks to my lecturer. Take no mind of it. Any sarcasm was not intended.

[katank]

Actually, pezhetairoi, I think enabling light lancers is a good idea.

They should get both lances and militia cav with basic stables. Both have their uses and this diversity reflects the cavalry tradition of Thrace.

I personally think there should be a unit like Thracian nobles which would look like barbarian noble cav but be weaker in defense but have the charge of a light lancer.

[pezhetairoi]

interesting... but I don't the Thracians had noble cavalry historically?

[Craterus]

Most factions would have had Noble Cavalry made up of the factions noblemen. Maybe it's just for variation.

[pezhetairoi]

Well, an interesting idea nevertheless. Thracian Noble Cavalry would add to the impression that Thrace was a barbarian-greek mixed-blood faction, which is what it is. Bits from both worlds.

[Es Arkajae]

Nay Arkajae, you haven't been reading the earlier posts closely enough. Inter linea, buddy :-D We were talking about Thrace's -buildable- units as a faction, which have a hodgepodge flavour with no amount of variety (as compared to the other factions, Thrace has way less unit choices).

If you did read above, I believe you would notice I did mention myself the amazing range of mercenaries Thrace had and the fact that it would have to base its campaign strategy on mercs. But the point being, mercs do not make the faction. It's what it can build that is its soul. And what it can build isn't much.

And, sorry 'bout the tone above if it offends you...'m feeling a little grouchy today thanks to my lecturer. Take no mind of it. Any sarcasm was not intended.

Put it in a nice detailed letter and mail it to someone who cares mate, 'inbetween the lines' is just a nice way of saying "oh yeah I actually meant this" when what some have said here was clear enough.

The Thracian unit lineup for example is far more versatile than the Greek unit lineup which is little but hoplites.

If one discounts siege weaponry then the Greeks have the same number of variety of infantry units, one extra missile unit (heavy peltast) and flaming bacon.

Phalanx pikemen are a fine unit and whats more under a human player are unstoppable by any AI (who don't know how to use theirs), they alone could guarantee one victory. Add in the falxmen and bastarnae though and the Thracians have some pretty damned good infantry units that don't become redundant Falxmen with their one turn buildtime can still get excellent use as extras in your battleline even after bastarnae become available.

Sure the Greeks have hoplites, whoopde do, they become redundant as soon as one gets armoured hoplites. Hastati become redundant with princepes, early legionairres become redundant with legionairres, levy pikemen are useful for nothing but garrison duty once one has phalanx pikemen as the Seleucids or Macedonians.

The Thracians may appear to some to have a small unit roster but with the exception of their poor cavalry (which is the same as Greeces) they have an on the whole versatile one. Add in the unusual variety of mercenaries the Thracians have EASY access to thanks to their starting geography and the Thracians have all bases covered quite easily.

[pezhetairoi]

*puts it in a nice detailed letter and mails it to someone who cares*

Yippee. I suppose you have a point re: versatility, I'll give you that. Thanks for bothering to reply.

[Craterus]

Put it in a nice detailed letter and mail it to someone who cares mate, 'inbetween the lines' is just a nice way of saying "oh yeah I actually meant this" when what some have said here was clear enough.

The Thracian unit lineup for example is far more versatile than the Greek unit lineup which is little but hoplites.

If one discounts siege weaponry then the Greeks have the same number of variety of infantry units, one extra missile unit (heavy peltast) and flaming bacon.

Phalanx pikemen are a fine unit and whats more under a human player are unstoppable by any AI (who don't know how to use theirs), they alone could guarantee one victory. Add in the falxmen and bastarnae though and the Thracians have some pretty damned good infantry units that don't become redundant Falxmen with their one turn buildtime can still get excellent use as extras in your battleline even after bastarnae become available.

Sure the Greeks have hoplites, whoopde do, they become redundant as soon as one gets armoured hoplites. Hastati become redundant with princepes, early legionairres become redundant with legionairres, levy pikemen are useful for nothing but garrison duty once one has phalanx pikemen as the Seleucids or Macedonians.

The Thracians may appear to some to have a small unit roster but with the exception of their poor cavalry (which is the same as Greeces) they have an on the whole versatile one. Add in the unusual variety of mercenaries the Thracians have EASY access to thanks to their starting geography and the Thracians have all bases covered quite easily.

Put it in a letter and mail it to some who cares.

But seriously, I prefer Thrace to Greece anyway. I can't command phalanxes so I may as well go for the quality infantry that Thrace has.

[Bruzhev]

Bastarnae with gold weapons and 3 gold chevrons are quite a formidable force when used against legionairies...

[Craterus]

Bastarnae with gold weapons and 3 gold chevrons are quite a formidable force when used against legionairies...

Yeah, their 2 HP bonus will help too.

[katank]

Bastarnae are tough. Too bad they don't seem to get AP attack. Falx types should definitely get an AP attack. Traditionally, the Romans had to reinforce their armor and helmets to not get arms and heads loped off so easily by the falxes.

[Craterus]

Bastarnaes look like they have massive machetes. Wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of one of those guys.

[katank]

Those falxes are worse than machetes. The inner edge is sharpened. One would hook and pull, loping off a head or arm in the process.

Falxes/rhompaias are ones of the most deadly weapons back in those times. Romans needed to add reinforcing bars to make their armor work better against this.

The falxes should get antiarmour and maybe +2 vs. cav.

[Bruzhev]

Falxmen are sufficient for butchering hoplites on walls when used with siege towers; and after you annex greece you can afford a full stack of bastarnae (and a few cretabs+illyrians) to annex rome. Of course, annexing greece is the hard part.

[pezhetairoi]

Absolutely, bastarnae are all you need. Perhaps we should all mod our bastarnae to give them AP, it certainly seems right that they get that sort of advantage at least. Did falxmen have an advantage against horses? I didn't know that...

[UltraWar]

THRACE ARE THE BEST FACTION ON THE GAME!!!!
GOOD INCOME AND EASY TO TAKE OVER PROVENCES :charge:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You-Dubya:

Thrace is a good faction, but so are they all. The inherent advantages of your brain over the AI mean that you should be able to establish a winning combination of strategy and battlefield tactics with any faction. This collection of guides illustrates this.

Some of these folks are scary good, and I would not be entirely surprised to see them lead the Amazons to victory -- if they could mod the game into making them a faction.

Seamus

[Productivity]

Thrace when defending really benefits in a large battle from using a roman manipular formation.

P= Phalanx pikemen, F=Falxmen, B=Bastarnae, A=Archers, S=Skirmishers

___________PPPPP_____PPPPP_____PPPPP_____PPPPP__________
______FFFFF_____FFFFF_____FFFFF_____FFFFF_____FFFFF_____
SSSSS_____BBBBB_____BBBBB_____BBBBB_____BBBBB______SSSSS
______________AAAAA__AAAAA__AAAAA__AAAAA_____________

Against phalanx based enemies, they will tend to task two phalanges onto each of your pikemen block. However this means that they come in on angles, exposing their flank to your falxmen (who should have no difficulty hacking them to bits). If the falxmen break, then the bastarnae need to go in.

Against non phalanx enemies, it's a little more brutal. It basically is hold until they hit your phalanx line, then surge the falx men forwards.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I don't like fighting Thracian because they have good units, but being them is pretty cool. You're like the only civilized nation around that area except for Macedon and Greece.

[Skott]

In RtR 5.4.1 Thrace VH/M is pretty fun and challenging.

[NodachiSam]

You-Dubya:
Some of these folks are scary good, and I would not be entirely surprised to see them lead the Amazons to victory -- if they could mod the game into making them a faction.

Seamus


Yea some poeple are scary good. :dizzy2:

[pezhetairoi]

At the beginning I hate Thracians cos they have a damned bunch of militia cav and skirmishers. Really annoying, and I have to tire out my horses to catch them in traps. =_=

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Good to see you posting again, Pez', I'd begun to think that EB had taken a lien on your soul. ~;)

Seamus

[Deus ret.]

I only played Thrace once, in a VH/M short campaign before switching to RTR...damn these folks are a challenge! The only army one has & can afford can barely deal with the Macedonian onslaught while there are rebels popping up in your homeland all the time. Which wouldn't have been all too bad but those guys started besieging my cities, esp. Tylis, after being left alone for a few turns and I had absolutely nothing left to deal with them!!

Additionally, Scythia and Dacia took turns in attacking Getae, pretty much choking me there. Dacia also had enough armies to repel an attack on Byzalora; all the more astonishing since it was Macedonian and they just helped them - if my allies only would do so....sadly, Bastarnae only come at 12,000 pop, meaning you somehow have to get past early game without them....

Congratulations to all who had more success with Thrace; I gave up after I had finally taken Thessalonica, when 1) a massive Dacian army showed up ready to take Tylis and 2) the Greeks betrayed me and attacked my victorious but severly weakened main army just outside of Thessalonica.....I've never had such opposition. In RTR, those guys are way easier if one deals correctly with the Sarmatians.

[Productivity]

..sadly, Bastarnae only come at 12,000 pop, meaning you somehow have to get past early game without them....

Bastarnae Mercenaries.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

That's what I use when I'm the Brutii faction when I fight Thrace. Boy do those mercenaries come in handy. I make full stacks of mercenaries, cuz I've got 400,000 denari...

[Craterus]

Thrace is the faction for the next joint campaign of littlegannon and me:

We started off by taking Byzantium (it's the obvious target) and exterminated. Moved the army out of there immediately, leaving some peltasts and militia cav. Then marched up to Porolissum, took that, and moved on to Campus Iazyges. The faction has not been destroyed because it turns out those crazy Dacians have taken Aquincum, and they have also got a pretty good force in there. Campus Iazyges was sieged the turn after we captured it, by the Dacians. We'll wait for the relief force, some of those kick-ass falxmen, and then break out.

It's been fun so far. :balloon3:

[rotorgun]

Thrace is the faction for the next joint campaign of littlegannon and me:

Excuse me for asking a question here Craterus. I don't mean to intrude, but...how does one conduct a joint campaign?

[Craterus]

Well, we start campaigns round each others houses (in real life), and continue them whenever he comes round, or I go round to his.

So far, we've done: Spain, Britannia, Julii and now Thrace. We started Dacia, but never really continued it..

[rotorgun]

Well, we start campaigns round each others houses (in real life), and continue them whenever he comes round, or I go round to his.

So far, we've done: Spain, Britannia, Julii and now Thrace. We started Dacia, but never really continued it..

Sounds like fun. I thought that you both played on different computers, and just used the same strategic moves, but then I'm sure it wouldn't take long for the outcomes to diverge too much. I sure would like to see an online multiplayer mode for the imperial campaign, allowing for each player to resolve any battles as in the current multiplayer system. Don't you agree?

[Craterus]

Online Imperial Campaign, just like you asked... :wink:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54704

[pezhetairoi]

Goodness, just saw Seamus' post about EB taking my soul, and goodness, I think it really has. I haven't posted here for an eternity. Anyhow. I'm on MM now, but I've finally discovered the beauty of Thrace when I tried a sample campaign for myself. Nothing could stand against my Hoplite-falxmen combinations. Ranged troops were just plain annoying since I was up against light lancers, whose horses simply ran down my peltasts thrown out on the flanks with the hippakontistes a la Gaugamela. But the peltasts bought enough time for me to bring up the falxes in reserve and give seven kinds of hell to the light lancers. Nasty. Bet no one's ever seen 2 units of falxes rout 5 6 units of light lancers double-unitedly ever. :-D Beautiful. By turn 15 I had the eastern Balkans. If there's one grouse I have it's that the falxmen die really too quickly. 3-7-0 is a sure recipe for fast kills.

...Well it was, till I applied my hitpoints mod to the entire export_descr_units.txt file.

[GrimSta]

ive been playing around with Thrace, and have added Thracian Noble Cavalry to the third tier stables, and also added Levy Pikemen to second tier barracks.

If anyone wants this then i can upload it somewere for download.

[pezhetairoi]

well, i would. Do you have unit cards for them too, or are they grey peasants?

[GrimSta]

its got unit cards, unit info cards and im updating it to make it slightly more historical (they are on the border of 3 totaly differant nations so they have a military that reflects their neighbors)
So in the next version of it expect:

Thracian Noble Cavalry
Thracian Heavy Peltasts
Getic Horse Archers
Levy Pikemen
Bastarnae have lower defence, slightly improved attack and horde formation
Thrace starts off with Byzantium
Faction Leader's army starts off with 1 noble cav, 1 milita hoplite, 1 levy pikemen, 1 falx men and the faction leader - he is in Byzantium also

The changes i thought were what was needed, if you think i should add/remove anything then please say......this was made to make the campaign more enjoyable, not stupidly easy.

EDIT:
here is the link, and also screenshots of Beta v1.0
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=57210

[Rome:Total Slayer]

thrace is a #$%@^ to play as . you start with very little money and resources all of the surrounding factions attack you and they all have good horsemen and you have no means of defendig your self I've failed twice and am thinking of editing the starting army to my liking.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

As Thrace you just have to concentrate everything on Dacia first in my opinion (which doesn't take long to win), then move to Macedonia.

I don't think it's very hard.:no:

[saxon_maik]

As Thrace you just have to concentrate everything on Dacia first in my opinion (which doesn't take long to win), then move to Macedonia.

I don't think it's very hard.:no:

In my last game things got interesting AFTER taking out Dacia. Campus Iazyges became the lightning rod of the Germans who sent out army after army... Naturally, that's when the Scythians decided to attack Porrolissium and Macedon came after Tylis.

I finally got fed up with fighting the Germans and sent my faction heir and another young family member into the heart of Germany with a full stack. After taking Damme and Trier the German attacks finally stopped. With my expansion into Greece I got into the expected confrontation with the Brutii, but thanks to my presence in central Germany I also had to deal with the Britons.

I agree: Not very hard, just very interesting!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In Vanilla, I have always found Thrace to be a tough opponent.

Those *&^(*^ Bastarnae race across the whole map at double time and arrive at my lines only "winded!" :dizzy2: And the Falx aren't noticeably slower.

His cavalry gets hammered, but cuts into my cavalry a bit before breaking.
My archers fire at the falx and Bast, my spears and swords take the hit and my cavalry slashes in from the flanks. Some tough fighting, but then they break away.

THEN his malfing pikes show up with archers shooting along with. My cavalry is already down 60% in numbers and tired, many of my arrows are gone, and slices have been taken off of every unit in the line.

Yes its beatable, but if there is a faction out there that can fight without cavalry its Thrace.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Use falx and you will win, in my opinion.:2thumbsup:

[Craterus]

The falxmen are a good unit, but they don't guarantee victory. Turn them round (so their backsides are facing the enemy) and see how useful they are then..

[spong]

to Grimsta:
I would really like to use your mini-mod as playing Thrace has appealed to me for some time but their lack of decent cavalry is irritating - I tried to dload your mod but the site you hosted it on has removed it - I was wondering if you could upload it again somewhere?

[gmjapan]

Do Falxmen have any bonuses against cavalry? They seem to be able to wipe the floor with all light and some heavy cav units in my game as Thrace.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Time: 237-ish BCE.

Politics:

At war = Dacia (betrayed alliance), Scythia (betrayed alliance), Macedonia (betrayed alliance, signed cease fire, signed alliance, betrayed alliance again), Seluecia (betrayed alliance), and all of the Roman factions.

Neutral = Greece (attacked me, signed cease fire when only Rhodes was left in the Aegean), Egypt (attacked me, signed cease fire after losing two 3/4 stacks in Anatolia, Armenia, Germania.

Allies = Pontus (no further West than Ancyra), Gaul, Briton, Spain (eradicated by Gaul, Carthage and the Julii).

Income & Forces: Doing nicely. Can't build everything (but getting stuff built) but each city has a half stack garrison (50% real troops) and I have a 3/4 stack cavalry army in Getae, and Full stack infantry forces in Anatolia and Thessalia and I am still netting 5k+. Lots of mercs in the Cav army and as "the shot" in the infantry forces.

Territories:

Start + Byz, Byza, Lari, Therm, Ath, Cor, Spar, Kyd, Hali, Sard, Perg, Nico.

Approach: Did not initiate war, built alliances with all neighbors. Took Byz, Nico, Hali, Kyd, then Spar with my intial attack army. Force structure too weak to fight further (so Mac and Scy instantly attacked). Slowly fought for and took Cor, Therm, and Ath, then rebuilt and took Lari (Bruti after Thermon, bloodily repulsed, assassins going to Appo). Byza snapped up by plagued war hero, Sardis acquired after Selkie betrayal.

[Roman_Man#3]

:help: !!!!!! thrace doesnt work for me. it always worked before, but now when i choose to play as them it automatically closes the program before i even start. some one please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Goalie]

Batarnae!!! Gotta love Thrace, both in multi and campaign. Bastarnae are definately one of the coolest units in the game. Campaign is decent with falxmen and phalanx pikes along with some hired cretans are a great combination, who needs cavalry anyway. In low $ multi they are surprisingly solid, Just let the bastarnae with some flaxmen do their thing with the infantry and cover the flanks with the pikes and you are all set.

[prometheusx]

It seems thrace doesn't get much love. I think it is definitely one of the more fun factions to play and falxmen as a unit mixed with hoplites/phalanxes add both interest and challenge.

They have a poor choice of temples (morale sucks compared to Exp). They also lack cavalry which as other people have noted isn't historically accurate.

Even without modding they arer still a fun faction, and in the early game several units of militia cavalry with the general can do fairly well against their neighbours, if you get the charge you will certainly beat light lancers.

For more interest you can mod them. There are a few ways I've liked:

easy way- edit the exportdescbuildings to give them access to the temple of artemis (just add thrace to the macedonians). This will give your cavalry up to +3 ranged and close attack which helps the cavalry situation a lot. It also doesnt have the negative effects of Ares either.

The other way I eventually modded them was to allow them to get barbarian noble cavalry (Dacian) and gothic cavalry at the highest level hippodrome.

Even if you donlt mod them my strategy has been very different from others here (although a little risky).

First problem is money. Pump up taxes. Also trade makes a lot of money so my first build in the capital is a port (also for other reasons). The second thing I do is get rid of all the peltasts- 170 upkeep for a unit that is weak in combat is not worth it at this time, there are 4-5 peltasts which saves you 6-700 per day. Capital builds a diplomat to talk to the greeks and macedonians (other diplomat heads to speak to dacia/scythia).

Your faction leader is getting on a bit but has a decent retinue- unless you want your hero in the capital to come along for the ride, have hime move to your faction leader and take the retinue before you move to attack on Byzantium.

As a greek faction ideally you want to be going for macedon/greece, personally I go straight for athens after byzantium. The capital has a port by the time you have byzantium (or before if your spy fails to open the gates). Thus you can have a ship down the coast soon after. You will need a character with the byzantine army before they move on to greece so you can either hope the faction leader will survive 5 years or you can take along the character in the capital at the start.

At VH/H, VH/M athens is almost always unconquered at this time. The one time it had been attacked i joined the siege with my ally (hence the diplomat is needed) and attacked the next turn thereby getting their assistance.

You now have a powerful city in Greece (soon to be your new capital) with an academy to get anilliaries. You also have acees to the excellent mercenary pool there (the reason you needed the character for athens). Now you can go through greece easily with one army of mercs and the byzantine army. Works very well and you are attacking along short lines as opposed to the longer supply lines to attack macedon from your initial base. You have 2 mercenary pools next to athens as well (the grecian and spartan). Also puts you near crete as a quick painless land grab and Rhodes for the colossus.

Also you have an army with a mixture of falxmen (who will demolish phalanxes/hoplites) and hoplite mercenaries (to take care of the macedonian cavalry).

The Dacians usually concentrate on macedon and against scythia you can bribe their armies or hold the bridge across the river easily enough.

The only real risk you run in the drive for Athens are the pirate fleets so you may want to disembark your troops at the end of each turn until you arrive. The sacking of the peltasts also frees up some money for purchasing mercenaries near the front.

[guineawolf]

i recently played as Thrace,guess what unit that i use to expand my empire?
militia hoplite and mix of some falxmen and militia cavalry,15 militia hoplites mix 2 falxmen mix 2 militia cavalry and a general as an army,then 1 full stack of militia hoplites as reserve.Militia hoplites works as spearmen(phalanxe on) and swordmen(phalanxe off and guard off) at the sametime,phalanxe at the front and swordmen at second line,falxmen do the flanking job or get enemy archers away from my main light infantry and militia cavalry as archers killer.

Since i using militia hoplites,they are easy to get killed,so i need many of them,that means i need more populations to be recruit.Then i work on population growth first(population up!raw recruit increase and tax income increase).

Start of campaign i disband all those peltast(170denarii,i can maintain 17 militia hoplites compare to 10 peltast),then i head to Byzantium,Byzantium fall.With Byzantium 4.5 base farming level,i can get well supply of raw recruit of militia hoplites.

Militia hoplites is good as light infantry,very cheap to recruit and very cheap upkeep to maintain,just remember get the armourer builded when it show up in the list,with 6 attack and 9 defense,militia hoplites is oredi enough for you to conquer at early campaign.

Just makesure you get a general can boost their morale to lead them,and 1 most important rules for militia hoplites usage,always fight your enemy in numbers.

Until now i have completely wiped out the Julii,Brutii,SPQR and leaving Scipii at North Africa.2 more cities from completely conquer Spain,after that i will send my main army to take out the Britons at their main British isle.
and i have 30000 militia hoplites as my regulars on the move,still increasing......:2thumbsup:Those militia hoplites performs quite good as swordmen as you keep your general behind them to lookout for them....

For my advice on start of campaign,try to ally with every neighbours,and build up your cities as fast as you can,build them in populations first,economy second policy,with no populations,you will have no men to recruit and no tax income.....dun fight anyone until someone engage you first except rebels independent city.Only watch out those your neighbours without any enemy.Those are more likely to attack you first if they do not attack anyone.

Take Chersonesos as fast as you can,coz it will supply you grain and increase your population growth after you build shiprights at your port cities and port at Chersonesos.Enslave every neighbouring cities when you take them.that will ensure you your supply of raw recruit.


surprises!i got a 16 years old general as military genius(+4 command) name Ziles at the start of my campaign.......that make me dun need to wasting time on train him up for command stars!

[guineawolf]

ive been playing around with Thrace, and have added Thracian Noble Cavalry to the third tier stables, and also added Levy Pikemen to second tier barracks.

If anyone wants this then i can upload it somewere for download.

militia hoplites performs better as swordmen than levy pikemen for me,if i ever need phalanxes,i rather use phalanxe pikemen......:yes: i will reconsider when i need more men to display my army at once.....:beam:

[guineawolf]

:help: !!!!!! thrace doesnt work for me. it always worked before, but now when i choose to play as them it automatically closes the program before i even start. some one please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!
perhaps there is a problem withing your descr_strat file??I have the same problem as you did when i try to unlock those extra factions for the first time...:inquisitive:

[guineawolf]

Pretty standard Greek faction.

The falxmen are pretty nice; if you can get anything pinned to your phalanx they are even better ~:)

Macedonia comes after you early and their cavalry is annoying; .
i agree with this="Macedonia comes after you early and their cavalry is annoying",yeah very annoying.I still remember at my early campaign how my general being slaughter by lancers on the conquest of macedonia,and that cause my militia hoplites army start to rout....and lose the battle...completely assasinate of my 3000 thracian light infantry...:wall:

about the choice of falxmen and bastarnae:falxmen got 0.87 lethality/13 attack while bastarnae got 1.00/14 attack,it seems that bastarnae is better flanker,
and falxmen got 170 upkeep/500 while bastarnae got 130 upkeep/790 only.
But bastarnae take 2 turn to produce while falxmen take only 1 turn.
falxmen got better defense status while bastarnae got 2 hitpoints.For long term,i will choose bastarnae....
and most importantly falxmen got 8 morale while bastarnae got 10 morale....
it just the falxmen can be produce by militia barrack while bastarnae need army barrack to produce.

[Quintus.JC]

Thrace is possiblely one of hardest faction to play as. sourrounded by hostile nations with a relatively weak army. Thrace really isn't the ideal nation.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

If I have to say one thing about the Thracians, is that their color scheme is terrible. That baby blue really doesn't suit their warriors. I find their falxmen to be quite laughable when they're dressed in what looks like bedtime pajamas.:laugh4: When I look at it up close to my moniter, it burns my eyes.

From a purely asthetic stand point, I find Thrace to be the worst. Even beyond the Pink Panther Parthians.

[Quintus.JC]

Bedtime PJs. man, you're funny.

[Hannibalbarc]

i agree with this="Macedonia comes after you early and their cavalry is annoying",yeah very annoying.I still remember at my early campaign how my general being slaughter by lancers on the conquest of macedonia,and that cause my militia hoplites army start to rout....and lose the battle...completely assasinate of my 3000 thracian light infantry...:wall:

about the choice of falxmen and bastarnae:falxmen got 0.87 lethality/13 attack while bastarnae got 1.00/14 attack,it seems that bastarnae is better flanker,
and falxmen got 170 upkeep/500 while bastarnae got 130 upkeep/790 only.
But bastarnae take 2 turn to produce while falxmen take only 1 turn.
falxmen got better defense status while bastarnae got 2 hitpoints.For long term,i will choose bastarnae....
and most importantly falxmen got 8 morale while bastarnae got 10 morale....
it just the falxmen can be produce by militia barrack while bastarnae need army barrack to produce.
Hmmm, I just did a test with dacian falxmen using warcry vs batarnae, they were pretty much evenly match but I think the warcry give the falxmen the victory.

[Paradox]

There's nothing wrong with the Parthian color scheme, what else would they color them? It suits them well.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

What other color would they give them? I dunno...Something that could be considered manly. Something that might strike terror into the hearts of their enemies.
Anything other than a color scheme based upon baby blue. I'm sorry, but when I see the thracians in battle, I'm feel more compelled to tuck them in to bed, than clash swords with them.:laugh4:

[Paradox]

The Kingdom of Jerusalem faction in M2TW are pinker than the Parthians, yet they still kick ass. I wouldn't judge an army by it's appearance, as long as it has an advantage, which, in Parthia's case, an excellent selection of units.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

The Kingdom of Jerusalem faction in M2TW are pinker than the Parthians, yet they still kick ass. I wouldn't judge an army by it's appearance, as long as it has an advantage, which, in Parthia's case, an excellent selection of units.

I don't actually judge the parthians/thracians based on color. If the army is strong, I will then fight rightly so. But honestly, if you are going to have an impressive faction, you should then at least have some impressive colors to go along with it. That's all I'm saying.

[Aetius22]

Thrace is really hard - modded or not. I gave Thrace Horse Archers slightly better than the basic Scythian, but not as good as their Noble Horse Archers which I based the model on, available at the second tier stable and Thracian Nobles on the third tier stable - basically a reworked Sarmatian Cavalry - I left the charge at 10, but now I am thinking it's too good at that level - I am thinking of bringing it down.

The problem with Thrace is that everyone attacks you - Dacia, Scythia, Macedonia, then later the Germans (if they are strong) and the Brutii. I can win with the regular units, but it just made no sense for what I read is historically a nation with a lot of cavalry in their armies.

The new units don't make that much of a difference because you still have to produce them.

Probably a repeat, but after taking Byzantium, I would get rid of Dacia and take the closest Scythian city (forgot the name). On my game the Scythians asked for a peace deal soon after I took their capital.

Macedonia is a tough nut to crack because of their lancers, and the Brutii is no picnic either. I would advise against auto calculating your battles, specially against the Romans, I lost a couple of armies because I was lazy (I play M/M - I would guess it only gets tougher on higher levels).

[Quintus.JC]

In all prospect, I would have to rate Thracia as the worst faction in the game. Similar to the Seleucids, they're sourrounded by hostile faction early on with relative weak troops (both being Hellenic factions), but that's where the similarity ends. Useless temples, and their late tier troops also itsn't exactully world beaters either. but with the right commander they could yet achive the impossible-becoming the domanent faction in the game.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

What do you mean by "worst"? However, I think you mean hardest. In which case I do agree (mostly). The Thraicians have a crappy starting position, a complete lack of high teir units, and their color scheme sucks too (sorry, but I had to bring it up again :laugh4:)

[Quintus.JC]

The use of 'Worst' is a bit harsh and personal. but the thing is they truly suck. and of course the bedtime Pajamas. really funny!

[The Wandering Scholar]

They truly suck on higher difficulty levels

[Quirinus]

I do think that 'worst' describes the Thracians pretty well. As previously mentioned, their starting position is similar to the Seleucids, but unlike the Seleucids, there isn't any reward for putting up with early-game difficulty-- they don't get cool late-game units like the Seleucids do. In fact, the power of units on their troop roster decreases with time. Their late-game units simply cannot compete with theier late-game counterparts from other factions.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Iirc, pretty awful would describe Thrace pretty well IMO.

Mercs are a must.

[Xipe Totec]

Thrace is hard at the start largely because you can't build anything better than peltasts and militia cavalry for a while and are surrounded by potentially hostile factions. In such a situation an early blitz is essential to improve your economy before you are swamped, but the problem here is with what? I threw the militia cavalry from Tylis north to join the Getae force for an early attack on Scythia, whilst the army near Tylis went straight for Byzantium. Both assaulted on the first turn after the rams were built and won with low-ish casualties.

My aim when assaulting towns is always to minimise my casualties by goading enemy units away from the town square with missiles into a trap where they can be attacked from 2 or more sides so that they rout and get slaughtered or surrender when the last unit. Fighting at the town square means more dead men on my side as even peasants fight to the last man. The hoplites in Byzantium are potentially dangerous but isolated and rear attacked by falxman when they are going after another unit means they rout quickly. Making sure that routing units have to pass through your units to get back to the town centre makes for rapid annihilation of the enemy and keeps your casualties down.

Campus Scythia luckily only had an archer and a general as garrison when I beseiged so I was a little annoyed on my next turn to find that his son had come of age and miraculously appeared with a fresh unit of bodyguards inside the settlement. It was a tough fight but militia cavalry are great at drawing generals away from the centre into a trap. I found Scythia was too weak and poor without Campus Scythia to either expand north to Vicus or Domus or to renew the struggle with me and we have had peace ever since. I think this is a key strategy for Thrace as later you want to head south without the distraction of a war against stacks of horse archers.

I was planning a sneak attack against Porrolissum which is too close to Tylis for comfort but then my allies Macedonia suddenly launched an attack for Byzantium and my one decent army had to head south instead. I wonder if taking Byzantium triggers Macedonia into action as they seem to want it real bad. Fortunately one of my generals had hopped over to Phrygia to pick up some Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers already so the Macedo's were in for a shock. At this early stage the Macedonians did not have the multitudes of pikemen and hordes of lancers I have often met before playing as Scythia or Dacia and could not take being shot up and then falxed. Quick storming of big stack garrisons followed using my favourite cheap exploit: bashing holes in the wooden wall where a road runs directly away from the gap, and then putting Rhodian slingers behind the hole to massacre the hapless enemy as they run away up the road. If you get it right one slinger can kill 400 - 500 enemy easily including generals. It helps that they take so long to run out of ammo. I went on a conquering spree as far as Athens before a stack of Scipii popped up by Corinth and the Brutii attacked Thessalonica on the turn that the dreaded plague struck. And the Greek CS demanded money with menaces backed up by a stack of Armoured Hoplites. My second string army of falxmen just whacked the Brutii out of Apollonia whilst the main army finished off the Macs and kicked out the Scipii. The Greeks have gone to invade Crete so I think its time to have a bash at Sparta before they come back.

So far I have found Thrace to be loads of fun played in a fairly blitzy way for me. Actually unlike the recent posters I think the Black and Cyan colours of this faction look rather cool. Reminds me of Mario Kempes in '78 (for the real veterans out there!). And I like the serpent logo too which will one day fly over Rome, Carthage and Antioch (bloody :egypt: are already in there).
Once Greece is all mine I need to do some turtling though and then we'll see how good the top tier Thrace units are. One day I'll have to see if it's feasible without the mercenaries to be fair, as Cretans, Rhodians and Balearics seem to make any army unstoppable if you can keep them relatively unscathed as they pick up experience.

[Quirinus]

Definitely a bad idea to turtle. As I said a few posts back, Thrace doesn't have particularly good late-game units. Bastarnae are pretty good, but don't really cut it with post-Marian Romans or armoured hoplites.

[Xipe Totec]

Turtling is not really what happened. I was forced to attack the Greeks all out because they put 2 stacks on small fleets and left Sparta with just a general, Spartans and an armoured hop. Too good an opportunity to miss! Both stacks went to the bottom of the sea and Sparta fell to the Cretun Arshes and Rrrhodian Slingers. GCS had already lost Asia Minor to Pontus so I was able to quickly finish them off in Crete and Rhodes.~:cheers:

Controlling Greece has allowed me to start building and growing in earnest for the first time though and creating a good trading economy to support offensive armies including Thrace's best bread and butter unit the Phalanx Pikemen. These guys can usually beat Roman Republic units with the right support both in field battles and assaults. Turtling never seems to be possible for me once I get into an all out war with the Romans because they are so aggressive towards neighbouring provinces that in the end you have to conquer them or they won't leave you alone. Plus the diplomacy system means that once you are at war with any Roman faction there is no way to end the war until all (but one maybe) are wiped out.

In the end I have found that I still haven't been able to build the top tier barracks needed to build Bastarnae in any of my settlements yet (239 bc) but having just captured Capua I can now build them there with the benefits of an awesome temple of Vulcan. This suggests that blitzing the Romans may indeed be a faster way to get highly developed settlements than turtling. :turtle: Thrace's other weakness is of course poor temples, which can only be overcome by conquering and keeping those of your enemies.

Falxmen are a useful unit for early blitzing but you have to be prepared for high casualties. They seem especially vulnerable to missiles including Roman pila and javelins from peltasts or velites. They do seem to kill cavalry quickly though and can be effective general killers. They are okay if you are attacking a large settlement which can be put to the sword to provide the cash and still have enough people left to rebuild them afterwards.

It is certainly my intention now to focus on conquering the Romans before they hit Marius as my Northern border is quiet now the Dacians have been pushed back to Lovosice and I am quite happy to let Pontus keep the :egypt: in check as they are sending everything east and seem happy to keep our profitable Aegean trade flowing. :beam:

[Vincent Butler]

So I started a campaign as Thrace, but it tanked quickly, I think I will restart it. Obviously Byzantium should be the first target, but do I ignore Dacia or attack them? It makes sense to go after Macedon quickly, but they very quickly started bringing up an unlimited number of large armies. I can defeat them, but I don't have the finances to retrain, so that is why I tanked. Should I attack Thessalonica quickly as well? Also, Scythia. They attacked me with heavy archer forces, but falxmen do nicely in melee combat against the Scythian Horse Archers. Thracian Mercs come in handy as well, but are rather expensive (800), Falxmen are certainly cheaper, but still a bit spendy (500).

It seems important to at least get to Falxmen. Since Macedon will have lots of phalanx, probably want more missile troops as well. Since Thrace's cav is awful anyway (unrealistically so), a Stables does not seem like a high priority. Then again, maybe it is better to get Militia Cav then Peltasts, so I should perhaps focus on that instead of an Archery Range.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I don't play Thrace very often (being a cavalryman Thracian cavalry really sucks), but IIRC, I take out Campus Scythii first. The next Scythian town is a looong way away and are all too small to generate troops for quite some time. With your rear secured, Byzantium should be next which will immediately draw the ire of the Macedonians.

Early in the game, it's the Light Lancers that create problems and the AI likes to spam scads of them. Unfortunately, you can't spam Militia Cavalry to counter as the Lancers are faster and can easily run them down. Lots of hoplites will do nicely, though~D


but I don't have the finances to retrain

That's why I like to go for port cities like Scythii and Byzantium early...every bit helps. Create no navy what-so-ever at the beginning, waste of money and you cannot compete with Macedonia in that respect....yet ~;)


do I ignore Dacia or attack them

Depends on what they do. In my few Thracian campaigns, sometimes they come after me, in which case you have no choice but to take them out (Porrolissum is just too close on your flank to ignore). If they head west and leave you alone, you can wait and deal with them later. On rare occasions, they get into it with Macedon which is the ideal situation as that allows you to build up your forces and strike where you please, but I do mean rare:inquisitive:


Should I attack Thessalonica quickly as well

That might be a stretch in the beginning. Stone walls, best general, and those two units of Macedonian Cavalry (Macedon's finest!). I would take care of Campus Scythii in my rear, wait to see what the Dacians do, and secure Byzantium before Macedon gets there.:shrug:

[Vincent Butler]

I don't play Thrace very often (being a cavalryman Thracian cavalry really sucks), but IIRC, I take out Campus Scythii first. The next Scythian town is a looong way away and are all too small to generate troops for quite some time. With your rear secured, Byzantium should be next which will immediately draw the ire of the Macedonians.

That's why I like to go for port cities like Scythii and Byzantium early...every bit helps. Create no navy what-so-ever at the beginning, waste of money and you cannot compete with Macedonia in that respect....yet ~;)



Being an infantryman, Thrace does not really excite me either. The Bastarnae are OK, but not great, though I guess the Phalanx Pikemen are OK. I use them as the basis of my Macedonian and Seleucid armies. The only problem is, I have no elite troops to supplement them. Historically, they should have given the Bastarnae to Scythia, as Dio said that the Bastarnae are properly classed as Scythians. But maybe Thrace gets them for balancing purposes. But Thrace also should have been given good cav, perhaps as good as Macedonian Cavalry. Thrace did have a proud cavalry tradition. I guess that's what the mods are for.

Perhaps Byzantium should focus on military after building port, and the rest focus on financial. But Tylis gets attacked a lot too. It seems if I can get to Falxmen I can hold, but they are expensive. I would not bother, but Macedon can counter my Militia Hoplites with their own, better phalanx.