16th c. city names

[Zen Blade]

hey all,

if anyone has a good book on city/castle names of the Sengoku Jidai, I would appreciate a little help on something.

I have a lot of bigger names of course, but I am currently searching for names in the following regions:

-Kozuke and the regions east of it... (including the Kai/Shinano border along Musashi and Kozuke). I am particularly looking for names in the Satake, Utsonomiya (sp off), and the other smaller daimyo domains around there (Ashina and such...)

-Echigo, I have several for this reason, but am particularly looking for anything that might be considered Kenshin's capital and info pertaining to its economic/size status.

-Eastern Hojo domain... primarily Shimosa and Kazusa as well as the relative location of Konodai... is it in Shimosa?

-Noto/Etchu, I found Toyama in Etchu, anyone know of any others?

-"Yamato" region, particularly an Iga castle or city north of Yamato of importance or any prominant eastern Kii fortresses or cities.

-Nagato/Iwami area, I have Akamagaseki and Omori... need one on the north coast there btwn those two.

if anyone has any ideas, please feel free to post them. I may have them already, but I may not.

thanks in advance

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

Hey Zen,

Kozuke: Numata (at first Uesugi, then Hojo, then Sanada), Minowa (at first owned by the Nagano, it was taken by Takeda Shingen in 1566 and given to Naito Masatoyo), Hirai (Uesugi until 1551), Kuragano (Uesugi, then Takeda in 1565)

E. of Kozuke - The Satake capital was at Ota in Hitachi. Another notable castle in that area was Shirakawa, to the north and just on the other side of the border (in Mutsu). That was owned by a branch of the Yuki clan but ended up in the hands of Satake Yoshishige. In Shimotsuke, there was Utsunomiya (of the clan of the same name) and Karasuyama (Nasu family).
The Ashina ruled from Kurokawa Castle in the Iwashiro region of Mutsu. The Soma family of Mutsu lived at Nakamura

Echigo - Kasugayama. Kenshin's capital (and where he was born), which he built up more or less to it's height by 1573 (it was one of the more impressive in northern Japan). He put in a great deal of effort to make the castle town economically strong during the course of his career. Other castles included Shitoshi (Irobe family), Tatejiro (Kakizaki family), Tochio (at one point owned by the Honjo as far as I remember), and Yoita (Naoe family).

Eastern Kanto - Konodai (in Shimosa), Chiba (in Shimosa, owned by the family of the same name), Usui (also in Shimosa, and a pivitol castle in the wars between Uesugi, Satomi, Oda, Ota, and Hojo), Oda, Kidamari (in S. Hitachi, owned by the Kanto Oda - that name being spelled with different characters then the Owari Oda), Inamura, Tateyama (Satomi castles in Awa), Shiizu (in Kazusa, owned by the Kazusa-Takeda)

Etchu: Matsukura (owned by the Shiina family until it was taken by Kenshin in 1575); Uzu (associated with the Jinbo, this castle ended up in Uesugi hands until 1582)

Noto: Anamizu, Nanao (associated with the Hatakayama - I might have to check again, but I believe Nanao was their main castle).

Yamato: Shigi (Owned by Matsunaga Hisahide), Koriyama (Tsutsui from about 1565 on, though it was lost to the Miyoshi and ended up in the hands of Hashiba Hidenaga years later), Tamon (castle near Nara built by Matsunaga Hisahide in 1567 and his headquarters for a short time). The most famous castles in Iga are probably Ueno and Hijiyama.

Iwami - Hamada, on the coast (at first Ouchi, then Mori, then Furuta).

[Zen Blade]

Thanks Seal!!

good work on those names.

-Kozuke: I had Numata and Minowa with Numata being to the north. However, Hirai and Kuragano... do you remember where they were located in relative terms? I am especially looking for one along the Uesugi/Takeda/Hojo border.... preferably in Takeda hands.

-E. of Kozuke: cool... However, Kurokawa, did it ever belong to the Uesugi? (I have it as being northeast of Numata and under Uesugi control... however that was just a guess)


-Echigo: Had Kasugayama... would Shibata also be considered a period castle/city along the northern coast of Echigo? And would Nishihama work along the western portion of Echigo/Etchu border? or are one of the ones that you gave me a better choice?

-Eastern Kanto: Usui, do you remember what part of Shimosa? North of Edo, or more to the east, or along any coasts? I am particularly looking for one along the north-eastern part of Musashi (but not along the Kozuke border. Others sounded good

-Noto: Nanao sounds familiar. Do you know where its relative location in Noto was? (north, south, central)

-Yamato: cool, had several of those,(the Iga ones were new) but do you know of any in Eastern Kii or the extreme southern Ise/Kii border area?

-Iwami: cool

Thanks again Seal

-Zen Blade


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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

Kuragano was in southern Kozuke, about halfway in. One castle the Takeda held just on the Shinano side of the border was Uchiyama, which was due east of Lake Suwa. This place was at first owned by the Uesugi, then taken by Takeda Shingen and given to Obu Toramasa. I do not believe it was ever attacked by the Hojo, however (though it was within Hojo's range of influence). Hirai was also in southern Kozuke.

Kurokawa went from Ashina to Date (1589) to Gamo to Uesugi. Uesugi Kagekatsu controlled Aizu briefly, but was transferred to Yonezawa after Sekigahara. By this point it was known as Wakamatsu. Also, some ways to the north-east of Kurokawa was Nihonmatsu. This belonged to the Hatakeyama until it was captured by Date Masamune, who in time gave it to Date Shigezane. To the north of Kurokawa, in Dewa, was Kaminoyama, which was under the control of the Mogami.

Echigo: Shibata was indeed a castle in the sengoku period, occupied by the Uesugi retainer family of the same name. Northeast of Shibata, on the border with Dewa, was Arakawa, held by the Uesugi retainer family of the same name.

Shimosa: Usui was to the east of Konodai, along the coastline. Going into the sengoku period it was occupied by the family of the same name (relatives of the Chiba).

Noto: Nanao was in southern Noto, on the coast just below Notojima (which is in the little bay that gives Noto it's distinctive shape)

Kii: This one is sort of tough - I know of any number of families who lived in Kii, but establishing where exactly they lived is a bit more difficult then a thought. There was the Horiuchi, who lived in the Kumano Region of eastern Kii (by the river of the same name), but have not yet placed their castles. There was Saiga, in western Kii, that was the center of what was called the Saiga monto, of whom the Suzuki family is the most famous. Also in that general vicinity, on Awaji Island, was Takenokuchi Castle, controlled by the Atagi (and through them, the Miyoshi).

[Zen Blade]

cool. thanks for the info Seal.
I may have some more questions at a later date in time, but these were very helpful

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[Zen Blade]

Seal,

couple more questions....
I was trying to find some names for the "east of Mori" area when Toyotomi was going through ppl.

specifically...
1. a place east of Tottori and west of Kanegasaki

2. a place in mimasaka

3. a place in northern Bitchu...

btw, recently... I was looking at the map with cities and such on it under your map section, and I think a few be slightly misplaced. not a big deal, but I was looking at some other maps and they have a few cities/castles a bit differently.

thanks,

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[Ieyasu]

Seal, could you include a url to your site on the next post? I would love to check out your maps section. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks.

[FwSeal]

What would those be, Zen? Its been a while since I did those maps - I'd like to know if I need to update them. I did notice that I placed Konodai a bit too far west and Obi a bit too far south.
The url to the 'maps'section is: http://www.techjapanese.com/~samurai/maphome.html

Mimasaka: Tsuyama (located in central Mimasaka). Contended by Yamana, Akamatsu, Amako, and Ukita during the early to mid-16th Century.

Bitchu: Matsuyama (actually in central Bitchu). North of that was Niimi, which was held by the family of the same name.

[Zen Blade]

The ones that I noticed being off Seal were Konodai (as you mentioned), Sakai and Ishiyama Honganji (they appear reversed on your map... Sakai being in Osaka and Ishiyama in Settsu on your map), and Takamatsu, which I had heard/saw somewhere in southern Bitchu as opposed to southern Bingo, but I'm not as sure on that last one.

those were the only ones that appeared suspicious to me. I didn't notice any other problems.

thanks for the names

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

Right you are about Takamatsu, as well as Ishiyama/Sakai. This does remind me that I have been meaning to update that map for quite some time, as well as most of the 16th Century maps in general. I have a lot more info readily on hand now - just haevn't had much time. Also, I noticed that I planted Yamaguchi just a bit too far to the east. Looks like an overhaul is in order...

[Anssi Hakkinen]

And now that we're talking about the map, where are the main Oda strongholds, Nagoya and Inuyama? Was the Owari area too crowded to accommodate them (in addition to Kiyosu)? Or - (just came up with this) is Kiyosu the same as Nagoya?

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"The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
- Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 12-18-2000).]

[Zen Blade]

Actually Anssi, those are decent questions.
Seal, if you get the time... a more detailed progression of Oda solidification of Owari and the surrounding area would be cool.

Anssi, Kiyosu was definitely the capital during Nobunaga's time until he took Gifu in Mino, then that became the main headquarters.

hopefully, Seal has more specifics

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

This is basically what the Oda Nobunaga volume in the Rekishi Gunzo series has to say about Nobunaga's early progress...
Initally, he occupied Nagoya Castle, which had been built by Imagawa Ujichika in 1525 (why Ujichika chose to build a castle in Owari is one of the little mysteries of the sengoku period). Nobunaga's father took Nagoya from Imagawa Ujitoyo (a brother of Yoshimoto) and this was Nobunaga's home castle as he began to clash with his relatives at Kiyosu. Following a string of battles (including Akatsuka and Kayatsu), Nobunaga occupied Kiyosu in 1554 (another source has 1553). According to the Rekishi book, this is where he resided until 1563. At that time, he moved to Komaki. The wording here is a bit vague - at the moment I'm not sure if that became his 'official' capital or if it acted as an extended forward headquarters in his on-going war with the Saito. At any rate, he of course would go on to occupy Inabayama in Mino in 1567 and afterwards renamed that place Gifu.

[Zen Blade]

Seal,

by any chance do you know which lords were the "most advanced" in lowering taxes or at least making them less burdensome. I know Hojo Soun did something of that sort after becoming his own lord.

others?? which would you consider "the best"

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG