Slaves resource

[therother]

I'm sure I've seen this resource earlier in one of my games, but as I look for them on the map, I can't seem to find them. I do seem to remember, in the deep recesses of my mind, that it was a temporary resource. But I looked in the descr_strat.txt of the Imperial Campaign, and there should be a slave resource at 160,43, which is right next to the Colossus at 160,44, but there's no sign of it. Can someone tell me how/why Slaves appear, and what exactly they bestow in terms of trade, population growth (*), etc. It would be much appreciated, especially if you have screenshots.

TIA.

(*) The manual says "Slaves and grain are moved between settlements automatically as required", which is why I suspect a growth advantage.

[Blodrast]

well, i don't know if this helps in any way or not, but so far i've only noticed slaves after enslaving a settlement. Then, for a while, that settlement apparently generates slave trade (can't say for how long, though).
That's the only circumstance I've seen slaves and slave trade.

[Tamur]

This from by current Brit campaign where I'm enslaving only. I believe I'm currently five turns past where I took and enslaved this province...?


http://www.mbc.umt.edu/sTemp/misc/slave-resource.jpg

[Oaty]

Slaves last 20 turns before they get exhausted.

As far as Rhodes being a slave center I have no idea maybe it was famous for it's slave trade and was meant to be there permanantly but got left out in the rush. (rhodes is the one with the colossus correct?)

[Tamur]

Yes, Rhodes has the Colossus. And thanks for the 20-turn info, I was only off by four! :tomato: My how time flies...

[therother]

Excellent, thanks Tamur and oaty. Could I impose a little further? Could you open up the settlement details and see what (if anything) is going on with the growth rate on that settlement, and of settlements who are trading with it? Also, could you note any difference in trading income after the resource is depleted?

If you want, you can email me the saved game and I'll do the research myself. Either way, I'd be extremely grateful!

Edit: Thanks Blodrast as well. Sorry I missed you out!

[Tamur]

PM'd, I'll wait to hear back from you re: emailing.

[therother]

PM'd, I'll wait to hear back from you re: emailing.Just sent my address now.

Regarding what Blodrast says, and the proximity of the slave resource to each settlement, I think that each settlement has a specific position for its slave resource to be put.

As regards my mention of Rhodes, I was being lazy. The Colossus is a well-defined object in the game, and anything beside it should be easy to find as it's on an a very small island. There are plenty of other Slave resources, and given what I say above, I believe there may well be one per province.

[Oaty]

Slave settlments get a population boost for the time the slave trade is going on, in all reality it does'nt make much sense to me. I remember looking at 1 of the settlements details and it gave a boost of 1.5 percent for pop growth.

[Blodrast]

heh, nothing to thank me for, really. didn't do anything to help, i'm afraid.
however, since oaty mentioned the increase in pop growth, I think I remember that in my situation it was only 1%...so perhaps it depends on the number of slaves available, and, indirectly, on the size of the settlement (and its population).
oaty, is it always 20 turns regardless of the settlement's size ?

[therother]

Slave settlments get a population boost for the time the slave trade is going on, in all reality it does'nt make much sense to me. I remember looking at 1 of the settlements details and it gave a boost of 1.5 percent for pop growth.Hmm, are you sure? The game Tamur has just been kind enough to send me has 1% and this matches with Blodrast's experience. If you are sure, I'll need to investigate why. God this game is complex!

Edit: Oh, and for you enslavers out there, does it always come when you enslave? If not, how often does it come?

[Blodrast]

it always happened to me when i enslaved. I haven't played enough to see if some other remote settlements already have that without having been enslaved prior to that
(see for instance the mention that Rhodes may have a slave market by default).

One question that arises is this: does the slave "resource" appear only when a settlement is enslaved by the human player, or does it work the same for the AI too ?
Perhaps that was the case with Rhodes ?

I have always seen it when I enslaved, however, there exists another possibility: it is quite possible that when the population of the settlement is below a certain threshold, you either do not get the option to enslave them (and thus, no slave resource appears).
Anyone experienced anything like that ? (I've never enslaved a really "small" town...if this kind of limitation actually exists).

[therother]

heh, nothing to thank me for, really. didn't do anything to help, i'm afraid.You told me what triggers the slave resource, and confirmed that it was temporary. That's pretty fundamental information!

[Blodrast]

no, that's *%#&^, but since we're on the subject, I think that you, Tamur, Soulflame, Quietus and a few others have been coming up with quite a few very useful bits of information, so ~:cheers: to you guys ;)

[Lichgod]

I am pretty sure I saw slave shackles near Carthage after the AI Scipii took it. If you are Roman, check the provinces your Roman allies recently took to see if they enslaved anyone.

[motorhead]

I can't swear to this, but in my current campaign, it seemed that distance to the slave resource also plays a part. When i enslaved settlements further away from my core cities, i don't recall them receiving any pop growth due to slaves, but cities close to the action were seeing +2% growth due to slaves - lots of those little shackle symbols appearing. Also, from the readme files on the rome disc:

Population Enslavement
After a settlement is conquered, and "enslavement" is chosen as the option to occupy the settlement. Roman factions and Roman allied factions will have 25% of the population go to the capital of the senate faction.
So enslaving also pumps up Rome's population, which can lead to quicker Imperial Palace and hence Marian Reforms event.

[RedKnight]

I've lately tried enslaving, done it maybe 4 or 5 times...

I've seen it adding 0.5% or 1.0%. Can't remember anything higher than that. Sometimes the little shackles appear on the map for cities that show slaves on their Details, sometimes they don't. But I've never seen shackles, and the city NOT have slaves on their Details.

I assumed each enslavement was causing 0.5% increase, and that the 1.0% was due to two enslavements. Something to test, eh?

Also, I assumed that each enslavement gave 20 turns of increase to the cities receiving the slaves. Another thing to look at. But here's a complication: What happens if you enslave multiple cities? Do the receiving cities have "overlapping" 0.5% increases, each of which runs out 20 years after that particular 'slave train' got started? What would the shackles say then? The game is certainly capable of multiple independent streams - like when you sell your map info to everybody in the world at the beginning of the game. ~:eek:

Another thing to note is that, like Tamur's screenshot says, slaves appear at cities at which you have governors. However, I'm not sure how precise this is. I know for a fact I've never seen slaves in the Details at my Capitol, although I've had my faction leader there the whole time, not budging an inch. It is also my second-most populated town. So it's possible that the game does some sort of calculation in regard to how many slaves there are to go around (the number you see when you choose to Enslave a city), what that means in terms of percent increases relative to cities you have governors at, and then decides which governed cities get slaves. All the cities I was enslaving were pretty small, so it would make sense relative to my capitol not getting percent increases. Maybe the game starts with your smallest cities? Then again, my most populated city DID get slaves... so maybe it just does a "walk" through your cities until it 'exhausts' however many slaves there are, and the order is in some way that doesn't necessarily make sense. (Quite possibly in the same "order that doesn't make sense" if you use the arrow keys to go through the screens for each of your cities. They are not in alphabetic order, or any other order I've been able to discern.)

therother, I can send you a sample game or three if you want, when I get home about 8 pm Eastern.

[andrewt]

Based on my observation, it's 0.5% per enslavement. Like grain, it's affected by the import/export bug I noticed. Right now, cities exporting to the city with grain/slaves get the bonus while cities importing from it don't.

[Ulstan]

I've seen the manacle icon appear on the campaign map from the AI enslaving towns as well.

When I enslave them, I get an immediate population growth boost boost in the town itself from slaves (a little odd but oh well) and then as the turns go by boosts in other towns further away as well (it seems to take a while to get over there). Usually in towns other than the one I enslaved from, it is 0.5%. If you put a slave trader retinue member there however, it goes to 1.5%.

Additionally, you get money (a little) from exporting slaves if you look at the trade details tab.

[therother]

Thanks for the extra info guys. Seems like I'll have to do some further investigating myself, as I just decided to take Alexandia from the Eygptians and got a whopping 2.5% growth increase from slaves. But that was a huge city, and the settlements Tamur took were both towns (one got 1%, the another 0.5%) Perhaps it does have to do with city size? As for possible bugs, we'll see...

[Oaty]

I've seen the manacle icon appear on the campaign map from the AI enslaving towns as well.

When I enslave them, I get an immediate population growth boost boost in the town itself from slaves (a little odd but oh well) and then as the turns go by boosts in other towns further away as well (it seems to take a while to get over there). Usually in towns other than the one I enslaved from, it is 0.5%. If you put a slave trader retinue member there however, it goes to 1.5%.

Additionally, you get money (a little) from exporting slaves if you look at the trade details tab.


Hmmmmmm was the conqueror a general himself as slaves get distributed to all governed towns

[Medieval Assassin]

The slaves are cut evenly thoughout all your towns/citys, WITH govs, So I would think it would vary say you took a big city with 30,000 people, being despirsed among your empire. Say it was evenly givin to a town with 1000 people, I would think they would get a big boost in pop like 4-5%...
However the Senate gets 25% of the slaves.

[Dickun]

I wonder what happens if you take all your governors out of town except one, and then take a huge city like Memphis. Would the single Governor controlled town get a step change 200% increase in population? Anyone tried it? :balloon2:

[RedKnight]

Heh, sounds like a good experiment Dickun

Hey - welcome to the Org! ~:cheers:

[sunsmountain]

Luckily the slave growth bonus goes away after some time (squalor problems). But how about grain:

Does anyone know how/why the grain imports/exports get established, and how to get rid of them?

[Haroli]

Are not slaves a monetary resource as well as a population resource? For twenty turns you get additonal denarii. Slaves are given monetary value in the resource list. I think its 10 or 12 D. How does one determine how much denarii is received from this resource? Does it depend on the size of the city enslaved?

[eadingas]

Okay, answer me this.
I'm trying to make a building construction dependant on there being a 'slaves' resource in the province.
It doesn't work. The buildings are available in every city from the beginning. Even if there are no enslaved cities yet in the game.
Does anyone know if it can be done, and how?

[Tamur]

If you look in the descr_strat file in the imperial_campaign folder, you'll see that "slaves" is a resource that is defined for ALL provinces... look near the top of that file for


...
resource slaves, 35, 141
resource slaves, 57, 140
resource slaves, 59, 129
resource slaves, 48, 138
resource slaves, 60, 117
resource slaves, 47, 112
resource slaves, 47, 98
resource slaves, 58, 83
resource slaves, 68, 81
...

So it's a resource in every province, the effects of which depend on conditions that are handled by the game code.

If I understand you, what you want to do is make building(s) available or unavailable depending on those game-code controlled conditions. I think you'd have to have and modify the game's code to do this.

[eadingas]

Woah! I never noticed that, thanks. Weird, though. I wonder what does it mean. I suppose these resources are 'hidden' till when a city is enslaved... I wonder what would happen if I removed those lines from the descr_stat... but probably they just wouldn't appear anymore.
This sucks. Now I'll have to think of another way to do it.

[Maltz]

Just a little extra info:

Recently I started to play on huge unit sizes, so in order to preserve some pop. for army in my heart land I have never exterminated anything so far. I now own about 20-25 settlements, and for any town pop. > 2000, I enslave. And the first town that I enslaved still has 1 turn of resource left. So I have enslaved at least 15 towns without any one expired - all accumulated. Here are some of my observations:

- The pop. growth bonus from slave happens in all enslaved cities, but not necessarily happens in cities that receive the slave. I have one edge little town that I want to beef up to pop. 2000, so I sat a governer in when enslavement occurs. It never received any slave pop. growth bonus despite 1000+ pop. was distributed to that town.

I don't exactly remember the max. pop. growth bonus slave can give. I have quite a few ~2000 pop. towns with 7-8% pop. growth. I will check back to see how many growth bonus is there and how much slave trade is going on.

[Owen]

Just a little extra info:

Recently I started to play on huge unit sizes, so in order to preserve some pop. for army in my heart land I have never exterminated anything so far. I now own about 20-25 settlements, and for any town pop. > 2000, I enslave. And the first town that I enslaved still has 1 turn of resource left. So I have enslaved at least 15 towns without any one expired - all accumulated. Here are some of my observations:

- The pop. growth bonus from slave happens in all enslaved cities, but not necessarily happens in cities that receive the slave. I have one edge little town that I want to beef up to pop. 2000, so I sat a governer in when enslavement occurs. It never received any slave pop. growth bonus despite 1000+ pop. was distributed to that town.

I don't exactly remember the max. pop. growth bonus slave can give. I have quite a few ~2000 pop. towns with 7-8% pop. growth. I will check back to see how many growth bonus is there and how much slave trade is going on.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two possibilities. There are probably more:

1. Slave growth bonus is like the grain trading growth bonus in that it is only received when the city is trading with another city that still has the slaves resource.

or

2. Only cities whose governor has a "slave trader" in their retinue, from themselves enslaving a city, receive slaves.

[Maltz]

1. Slave growth bonus is like the grain trading growth bonus in that it is only received when the city is trading with another city that still has the slaves resource.


So far I think this reasoning fits the situation well. In newly conquered provinces, population boom is always a guarantee. I checked back last night, for every city with population growth bonus from slave, there is slave trade going on (although only a few dozen denari profit per turn).

The extent of pop. growth in my current campaign vary from 0.5 - 6%, depending on how "central" the town is. For example, for former Macedonian cities which are adjacent to many other slave resources, I always get at least 4% of growth. However, for the starting Julii provinces I have only 2.5% in one, and 0% in the other (no slave trade going on).

From slave trade value alone I can't really determine the pop. growth rate bonus. My current slave trade revenues are all quite low, none of them go over 100 denari per turn. ~:)

[Maltz]

I just found that even for settlements that are NOT trading slaves, there are still pop. growth bonus due to slaves. I would assume the population growth bonus comes purely from slave centers nearby, decreasing with distance? :dizzy2:

[zhuge]

While I have not really cracked how slaves are distributed, I have with me some relevant tidbits of summarized information/findings. You will probably be quite familiar with some of the points but perhaps not all and I thought I'd provide a quick summation of the points so far.

Division of initial slaves:
1)I'm sure we all know that enslaving a newly conquered town means half of the population of that town goes straight to governed towns throughout your reign. If there is only 1 town with a governor, then all those slaves will be shipped there instantly and if there is more than 1 town with a governor, than the slaves are equally divided amongst all governed towns.

2)I was curious to know what would happen if there are NO governed towns at all. It appears from testing that in this case, the slaves are equally divided amongst all those non-governed towns.

3)If a particular town is besieged, it does not receive the slaves. The slaves do not disappear however but appear to be "returned" to the original province where they came from. Unfortunately, I do not have enough data to make a firm conclusion regarding this point, though so far it appears to be true.

Distribution of slaves later on:
4)Regarding slave traders, they appear to add 1.0% to the slavery growth bonus for any town that is run by a governor who has a slave trader in his retinue. If said governor leaves the town (even by 1 step), the 1.0% slavery growth bonus immediately disappears. I have not been able to discern any other effect for slave traders.

5)Regarding the population growth (PG) and its association with the population boom effect on public order (PB), it is defined as follows:
PB = (PG - 5)(10)

PG represents the final effective population growth after taking into account all positive factors like slavery growth bonus (SG), grain imports, farm upgrades, base farming, etc...
and deducting negative factors like squalor.

For example, Syracuse which has PG of 11.5%, will have:
PB = (11.5 - 5)(10) = 65% (if PG is5 or less, then PB = 0)

There appears to be a maximum limit for this final effective population growth (PG) as it does not display as more than 12.5%.
However for calculating PB purposes, the effective PG is still treated as the figure it should be

For example, Corinth has 12.0% PG and 70% PB on Very High tax.
We lower the tax rate to Low, resulting in a 1.5% growth bonus.
The total population growth only displays as 12.5% (should be 13.5%)
(I will need to do further tests for population before and after tax change to check if this is really so)
However the PB is still calculated according to the above formula as if the PG was 13.5%
So new PB = (13.5 - 5)(10) = 85%

I am not sure if there is a similar maximum limit for slavery growth bonus

6)Slave trade distribution and slavery growth bonus
I am much less certain on this issue. However my initial observations concur with those of andrewt and Maltz. Any newly enslaved province immediately gets 0.5% slavery growth bonus. Sometimes adjacent provinces also get a 0.5% bonus but not always. Roads and ports may play a factor or perhaps trade routes. It is also worth looking at whether a particular route is blocked by rebels/brigands. The possibility of a bug similar to that of the grain resource is high as previously mentioned by andrewt.


Since slavery is an important part of game management (population size control and public order) and also plays some role in trade, I fervently hope that we can clear this up soon so that if we find any bugs, we can inform CA of it and have it up for correction in the next patch.

[therother]

Looks like a good summary of what we know. Good work zhuge. Will take a more detailed look when I get some time.


fervently hope that we can clear this up soon so that if we find any bugs, we can inform CA of it and have it up for correction in the next patch.This is a bit of a forlorn hope. The next patch is almost ready to ship, so if CA hasn't spotted any bug yet, I very much doubt that it'll be corrected in the forthcoming patch.

[zhuge]

I am using diplomats to give regions as gifts to gauge to contribution of these nearby regions on the slave growth bonus of the region of interest. Demolishing the port of the region of interest apparently has quite an effect on slave growth bonus as well.
The slave resource appears to works exactly like the grain resource: every town in which the slaves pass through gets the bonus (I should have known to read dev posts here in more detail :wall: ).

Say for example, Sinope in my game which gets 8.0% slave growth bonus (SG) actually has 4.0% from sea (demolishing the port establishes this). The remaining 4.0% comes from Palmyra, Antioch, Tarsus, Mazaka, Ancyra, Nicomedia, Sardis and Sinope itself (with each of these previously enslaved regions contributing 0.5%).

By giving away Palmyra as a gift to the Egyptians, we now see that SG has been reduced to 7.5%.
We can also try giving away Mazaka instead and also find that SG is now 7.5%.
When we give away both Ancyra and Nicomedia we find that SG is 7.0% as expected.
However when we give away Ancyra and Mazaka, SG drops to 5.0%. This is because by removing Ancyra and Mazaka, there is no longer an open trade route for regions further away (Sardis, Tarsus, Antioch and Palmyra) and therefore their slaves do not reach Sinope and are not counted.

So basically, I believe SG depends on the trade routes. Some confirmation of this would be nice as would further tests to sort out how trade routes are determined.

P/S - I'm well aware that it is too late to slip in any changes for the coming patch. I actually meant this for the patch after the coming one but misrepresented it in words. Anyway, I believe there may be a small chance of seeing this corrected in the coming patch since the slave resource appears to function like the grain resource and the devs are aware of the grain resource bug.

[Maltz]

Just accidently found out that the max. pop. growth rate is 12.5%. (I suppose -12.5% for max. pop. loss?)

http://protein.biochem.queensu.ca/~dlee/others/rtw/etc/16_slave.JPG

I am not sure how can slavery add up to 16% growth. This is crazy. ~D

[Germanvs]

I cannot get the slave bonus working. I cannot get population growth by retianers working either.
I'm playing 1.2 withe the unofficial 1.62 patch.

While in the city screen the incoming slaves are nicely reported, the next turn the town has grown with exactly the rate it should do if NO slaves would come in. The same is true for population growth for the Priest of Ceres bonus.
It happens in all my cities, either with or without governor.

What gives?

[Oaty]

The enslaved city needs a rode to trade slaves at least for the population bonus.

[Germanvs]

The cities all have roads.

The problem is like this:
city population is 1000: growth rate is 9% (including 2% slaves), and the next turn there are 1070 people.
I'm not training any unit.

edit: I've looked at some of my old saves, and only in one case I've seen it work in Greece, for only one turn.
I have control of all of Spain, all cities are linked by road, most have a governor present, but nowhere do I get a population bonus as the city screen promises me.

And with regard to roads: slaves can be traded by sea, at least that is what the city screen indicates.

I was wrong about the Priest of Ceres though: that bonus works.

[Oaty]

Germanvs you are right that cities don't always get the slave bonus growth even though it does show it in the city details. I never was able to pinpoint what was causing this. The only known factor for me is that a road is needed in order to export slaves but not import them.

This occured to me on a modded map, so are you playing on a modded map? If it's the regular campaign map then it's a bug, if not it's more than likely something the modder did'nt implement into the files.

[Germanvs]

Thanks oaty,

I'm playing vanilla, with only the unofficial "bug-fixer patch" installed over the 1.2 patch.

[SMZ]

Completely off topic, but:

Someone mentioned the game's method of cycling thru your cities...

It goes from west to east... or to put it simply, left to right.

[Germanvs]

After the 1.3 patch I still do not receive increased city growth by trading slaves. ~:rolleyes:

[Germanvs]

Still no slave bonus to population growth in 1.5 :(


could some people try the following:

start a new Julii campaign.
Get the general from Ariminum out of town.

Attack Segesta with one of the stacks near it to conquer the town, enslave the population.
Build Gov center.
end turn
build road in Segesta.
end turn 5 times.

Post population in both Segesta and Arretium. Report if you got the Slave-trader when you enslaved Segesta.

I simply can't beleive I'm the only one with this slave-bug

When I arrive at winter 267BC, Segesta has a pop of 517, Arretium has 5047.

[Pode]

You're not, I'm getting borked results also.:san_angry:

[gardibolt]

Ummm, 5 turns on that test only gets me to Summer 267.

As of 5 turns, running four tests in unmodded, unpatched 1.0, I have populations of 492 in Segesta and 4644 in Arretium.

If I go to Winter 267 (6 end turns), then Segesta is up to 499 and Arretium is4714.

So something has definitely changed between 1.0 and 1.5 as to how the population reshuffles.

I ran four tests and never got the slave trader. Twice I got no retainer, and once each I got the Body Slave and the Exotic Slave.

[Germanvs]

(copied from the patch 1.5 thread)

Thanks.

Perhaps the base farming level has been raised from V1.0?

Base farming in 1.5 is (Summer 270 turn):
2% (4 grain icons) for Segesta
3% (7 grain + 1 farm - 2 squalor) for Arretium)
(Ariminum is 3% as well, same fractions as Arretium)

Nevertheless, I think it is save to assume the slave bonus for city-growth is broken in 1,0 as well :san_sad:

I had a slave-trader once in a test, but that did not affect the outcome at all.

[gardibolt]

OK, here's the breakdown turn by turn in 1.0 unpatched/unmodded (and no slave trader retinue), Normal tax rate:

Summer 270: After Segesta is enslaved, its pop is 450 and rate of growth is stated as 2% (1.5% base farming and .5% slavery, with no squalor). Everything except the pop stays the same for Segesta through the end of the test in Winter 267.
Arretium ends up with 4225 pop and 2% growth, (2.5% base farming, .5% farm upgrade less 1% squalor) after enslaving. Built the governor's house.

Winter 270: Segesta pop 457
Arretium pop 4309, growth rate drops to 1.5% (2.5 base + .5 farm upgrade - 1.5% squalor). Built roads.

Summer 269: Segesta pop 464
Arretium pop 4374, growth rate stated as back up to 2% (2.5 base+ .5 farm upgrade + .5% slavery - 1.5% squalor). Everything except the pop stays the same through the end of the test in Winter 267.

Winter 269: Segesta pop 471
Arretium pop 4440

Summer 268: Segesta pop 478
Arretium pop 4507

Winter 268: Segesta pop 485
Arretium pop 4575

Summer 267: Segesta pop 492
Arretium pop 4644

Winter 267: Segesta pop 499
Arretium pop 4714

From this, it seems clear that the .5% slavery bonus isn't actually getting added in. The Arretium pop increase matches the stated percentage in Summer and Winter 270. But when the slavery is added in 269, it never actually increases pop at the right rate--at 2% the Winter 269 pop should be 4461. But it only increases 1.5%, to 4440, indicating that the.5% kicker for slavery never gets added in. The Segesta population increase is never right, since the slavery kicker is there from the beginning: it should be increasing by 9 population, but it goes up by only 7---i.e., 1.5%

So this has never worked properly, even in 1.0. The population equation doesn't seem to be picking up the slavery bonus for whatever reason.

[Germanvs]

cheers, gardibolt.

Thanks for helping sorting out this issue.

[hellblazer]

My results using version 1.5/1.6:
Followed directions by removing governor from Arretium, enslaved (didn't get slavetrader) built gov house 1st turn and road 2nd trun in Segesta

First test:

Segesta 451, 460, 469, 478, 488, 498
Arretium 4112, 4235, 4362, 4471, 4583, 4698

Observation: Segesta reports 2.5% population growth in city details screen yet only receives 2% population growth. The building of a road (completed after turn 2) has no effect.

2nd test: Governor receives slavetrader in Segesta on first turn

Segesta 451, 460, 469, 478, 488*, 498, 508, 518, 528
Arretium 4112, 4235, 4362, 4471, 4583*, 4698^, 4815^, 4935+, 5058

Notes:
*after this turn I moved governor with slavetrader from Segesta to Arretium

^ Reported 4% growth rate in Arretium with slavegrowth bonus and slavetrader bonus (notice actual growth rate remains at 2.5% )

+Reported 3% growth rate Arretium (I moved my governor out of Arretium to see if it would have an effect) Actual 2.5% growth rate

Conclusion: Slave growth bonus and slave trader ancillary don't work in either city. The presence of roads has no effect.

[hellblazer]

After these results I will remove (mod) the slave trader ancillary from my game as it is a useless waste of space that could better be used for a "working" ancillary.

Moderators: I hope that this research will earn my membership so that I can contribute more on this forum in addition to my patronage of the official forum and RTW center.

[Severous]

Hi

RTW V1.5 No Mods

After the initial slave distribution to cities with governors we get no further population growth from slaves. Thats what ive seen in my game, in this thread and elsewhere.

Couple of Slave resource observations:

a) Slaves are shown on the settlement details as generating population growth. If growth is high we get a 'population boom' benefit in the public order. So the slaves indirectly increase public order allowing reduced garrison/higher rax rate.

b) Slaves are a resource on the map like any other.? Land and Sea trade income is increased. So might it be to your advantage when capturing cities to mix up your occupy/enslave/exterminate choice. Having some regions enslaved with a 'slave resource' and others without the resource. Thus there will be profitable trade between the two regions. If neither had slaves, or both had slaves, there would be no profitable slave trade.

[hungry]

Hi

RTW V1.5 No Mods

After the initial slave distribution to cities with governors we get no further population growth from slaves. Thats what ive seen in my game, in this thread and elsewhere.

Couple of Slave resource observations:

a) Slaves are shown on the settlement details as generating population growth. If growth is high we get a 'population boom' benefit in the public order. So the slaves indirectly increase public order allowing reduced garrison/higher rax rate.

b) Slaves are a resource on the map like any other.? Land and Sea trade income is increased. So might it be to your advantage when capturing cities to mix up your occupy/enslave/exterminate choice. Having some regions enslaved with a 'slave resource' and others without the resource. Thus there will be profitable trade between the two regions. If neither had slaves, or both had slaves, there would be no profitable slave trade.
Same, RTW v1.5/BI 1.6, no mods. Yes, slavery, despite of what is shown on the settlement details scroll, doesn't really increase population growth, but it does affect public order when used extensively.

Any settlement connected by road to another settlement with a slaves resource will get that extra 0.5% imaginary population growth. If the bordering settlement with the slaves resource borders and has roads to other provinces with the slave resource, the affect is cumulative. For example, in my Carthagian campaign, I currently hold 7 settlements on the italian peninsula, all 7 enslaved. All 7 of those show 3.5% extra population growth. The exceptions being Rome, which is at 4.5% due to a governor with the slave trader ancillary and Croton, which is getting imports from enslaved Syracuse, and thus shows 4.0%.

Which brings up the other point. Any settlement getting imports (connected by sea) from a settlement with the slave resource will also get the cumulative bonus. Several examples to follow which show this and a few wrinkles. Caralis, getting imports from both Rome and Arretium, shows 3.5% extra. Palma, getting imports from Cirta and Carthago Nova, shows 2% extra because Cirta is connected by road to enslaved Tingi and Carthoga Nova is connected by road to enslaved Corduba (it was bribed by the Spanish so I enslaved it when my army recaptured it). Carthoga Nova only shows 1% extra despite the fact that Corduba is getting imports from Tingi.

As a game feature, perhaps the fake population growth represents slaves moving around with a zero net flux. A more mobile working force is a more orderly society? :inquisitive:

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Carthage is getting 100% of its redistributed slaves. In contrast, the Roman factions seem to lose 50% of their slaves, which go to Rome and/or the other Roman factions.

I'll note here that Messana didn't lose citizens, soldiers, or characters when Etna erupted.

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Unlike the slave resource, the grain resource does add population growth as expected. I had 8 cities with the grain resource showing in the settlement details scroll and the population growth in each was exactly the displayed population growth minus the fake slave population growth. Carthage and Syracuse both have the grain resource and it adds 1.5% population growth to themselves and their trading partners. The population growth has worked for both the 1.5% and 3.0% grain growth increments.

AFAIK, the settlements Carthage, Syracuse, Alexandria, and Memphis naval export grain to are IIRC:
Carthage => Lilybaeum, Caralis, ?
Syracuse => Croton, Thapsus, ?
Alexandria => Salamis, Sidon?, ?
Memphis => Bostra?, /, /