MOORI : Why monks ?

[Draksen]

Can someone explain me why Moori clan is
a "monk" clan ?

Historical reasons ????

Thank you for answers.

------------------
http://www.geocities.com/draksen/doragon.JPG

[Ronin]

The moori clan suported the ikko-ikki of the Ishiyama Hogan-ji during their 10 year struggle against Oda Nobunaga: During the siege of the nagashima complex the moori navy tryed to lift the siege and bring food to the monks but were defeated by the Oda navy.

------------------
"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

[Zen Blade]

yup,

like Ronin said... also, the preferred American spelling is Mori.

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[Draksen]

OK, Zen_Blade,
never mind,
let's go for "MORI"
(although it should be "mouri"
mo+u+ri in japanese hiragana)

Thank you Ronin


------------------
http://www.geocities.com/draksen/doragon.JPG

[Tachikaze]

How about "Môri"? On our US English keyboard, the ô is Alt+0244.

The historical reasoning is pretty valid, which is convenient for game balance.

------------------
A murky puddle becomes clear when it is still.

[Zen Blade]

Draksen,

I know that "o"'s are often represented as "ou". (i.e. Oumi instead of Omi) But for the sake of not confusing most Americans, and english speakers in general, it is more convenient to just drop the "u" since, and I may be wrong, it is my understanding that in this case the "u" just denotes a long "o" sound, which is just "o" in English.

now, as I am not a linguist, and this is just what my friend was saying I don't know how much of it is true, but it worked for the examples he was using. (of which, Mori was not one)

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

Mori/Mouri is actually one place where the 'ou' is especially useful (insofar as a casual reading - rather then a spoken use - is concerned), given that there was more then one Mori family - and that their names were rendered (and prounounced) differently. This includes the Mouri of Aki, and the Mori of Owari (as well as the Mori of Omi who changed their name to Mouri...). 'Mori' (as used in the latter example) was in fact written with one character (as opposed to the pair used in Mouri). A good case in point might be the fact that the STW team obviously mistook Mori Yoshinari for a member of the Aki family (and promoted him to the status of heir!). The Aki family's name is prounounced with what could be called a long 'o' (ou).

[Tachikaze]

It's too bad the double O has its own sound(s) in English (as in noodles and book).

There is no trouble with Ishii and anjuu.

It is often important to distinguish between short and long vowels. Shôyu and shoyû have two different meanings (don't order a "possession" in which to dip your tempura at a restaurant). Tori is a bird, tôri a street, and torî a shrine gateway.

And don't call a komon (adviser) a "kômon"; it would be very embarrassing.

------------------
A murky puddle becomes clear when it is still.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

(Going offtopic here, but... I've got used to it...)

This topic surfaces again. I try to use the circumflex (circonflexe! it's French!) as much as possible to avoid confusion. It's a pity the 255 character ASCII system doesn't support the true character for the extended vowel (the letter with a little horizontal line on top).

But, now that Tachikaze-sama broached the subject by explaining shôyu, I have to ask: what does "Jibu no shôyu" (or shoyû? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) mean? This has kept bugging me ever since the Dojo was reborn... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
"Crystal clear, / Sharp and bright, / The sacred sword / Allows no opening / For evil to roost."
- Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

[FwSeal]

The office of Jibu (or the Ministry of Civil Administration) was actually established before the samurai came to the fore and as part of the Taihou-Yourou Code - around 718 A.D. This body - the Jibu - was largely concerned with historical matters, genealogies, the regulation of family names, posthumous awards, rituals, ect... the ranks of Jibu no Shouyu/Shoukyo and Jibu no Shousuke and others (as well as those related to the other offices - including Minbu, Hyoubu, and Shikibu, ect...) remained in honorific use into the Edo period. One of the better known figures to carry the rank of Jibu no Shouyu (the 'u' at the end is also supposed to have a line over it but I am not sure how to best render that) was Ishida Mitsunari. He was also known as Jibu no Shousuke, as was Kikkawa Motoharu and Yasuda Nagahide (and others). Imagawa Yoshimoto is sometimes listed as 'Jibu no Ousuke'.

[Zen Blade]

thanks for the clarification Seal and Tachikaze.

Seal, this is off-topic of the original post, but I am going to allow it as it just popped into my head.

Seal, I remember hearing somewhere about potential incorporation of lakes into the battlefield in the expansion (don't remember from who). Can you think of any other lake areas beside Lake Biwa that saw battle action. I know there is a lake or two out in the Hitachi area.

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[FwSeal]

I know that the Lake Suwa area of Shinano saw a lot of action from 1500 onward, as did the Lake Shinji area in Izumo and the Lake Inawashiro area of Mutsu. Those are the only examples (aside from Biwa) that spring to mind.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Domô arigatô gozaimas, Jibu no Shôyû - many thanks *bows*

------------------
"Crystal clear, / Sharp and bright, / The sacred sword / Allows no opening / For evil to roost."
- Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei