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solypsist
03-25-2001, 13:50
I just finsihed catching about ten seconds of Carl Sagan talking about the revered crab in Japan, that seems to have the image of a grimacing samurai on it's shell. I can't remember the name, and I missed the original story. but I did actually get to see the crabshell, and it's great. Anyone wish to educate us on this? Also, I know it's a sacred item for the Japanese (they don't eat them) but no doubt there has to be a few of these things preserved somewhere, and after seeing it, it's something I covet.

Anssi Hakkinen
03-25-2001, 18:36
The Heike crab is found in abundance in Japan's Inner Sea (or whatever it's called, the sea between Hônshu, Kyûshû and Shikoku). According to the legend, their shells bear the souls of those Taira (in Chinese, Heike) samurai who perished in the Battle of Dan-no-Ura, which was the closing battle of the Gempei War and caused the destruction of the entire Taira clan. Should Seal-Kô have more time on his hands than I do, I'm sure he can deliver a full account of the Gempei War. My 12th century history is somewhat rusty, at least when it comes to dates. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

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"Yea, the proud ones are but for a moment, like an evening dream in springtime. The mighty are destroyed at the last, they are but as the dust before the wind."
- The Heike Monogatari

Yoshitsune
03-25-2001, 23:40
Try and get hold of the movie 'Kwaidan' which is a collection of Japanese traditional ghost stories. One episode concerns a blind biwa-player based at the temple near Dan-no-ura who is troubled by the restless spirits of the Taira clan. Every night they take him to recite the Heike Monogatari to the ghost of the child emperor, Antoku, who died at the battle.

The film includes a ghostly rendition of the battle (which took place in 1185) and the legend of the Heike crabs is also recounted.

Choco
03-26-2001, 05:02
Many historical comic books and mangas have depicted that episode. That is a very popular histoy in Japanese Folklore.

He .. even in Usagi Joyimbo there is a chapter dedicated to explain the whole Crab thing.

Contubernalis
03-26-2001, 09:16
On page 81 of Turnbull's _The Samurai: A Military History_ is a picture of one. I don't know, I really don't see it (though the picture quality is rather poor). But I can't do those 3-D pictures in the Sunday cartoons either...
Sort of on-topic, the Japanese strike me as having a very involved spirit world. Or maybe they just present it more memorably than Western sources. Any thoughts?

Minagawa Daimon
03-26-2001, 10:04
i think its just more tragic and poetic at the same time, thats why i love japanese culture so much, also it is ironic that a culture that so embraces the practice of zen and buddhism can produce a warrior society that is so fanatically dedicated.

Anssi Hakkinen
03-27-2001, 03:11
Contubernalis-san: if the picture is in black and white (like it is in my version of the book), you should be able to discern three pale areas on the shell. Think of the upper two as eyes and the one in the middle as a mouth. Ignore the legs etc. Once you see it, you'll understand why it inspired so many legends - it does look eerie.

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"Si j'étais né en 17 à Leidenstadt / Sur les ruines d'un champ de bataille / Aurais-je été meilleur ou pire que ces gens / Si j'avais été Allemand?"
- Jean-Jacques Goldman: Né en 17 à Leidenstadt

Contubernalis
03-27-2001, 05:31
I think I can vaguely see it. Is he frowning(The frown is in that middle section between the lower legs) with a really big round nose? Or is the nose supposed to be his mouth?

LOL, I can't believe I just spent the last ten minutes scrutinizing the underside of a crab.

Minagawa Daimon
03-27-2001, 09:50
does anyone have a good site where we can have close up look of these taira warriors incarnate ?

Anssi Hakkinen
03-27-2001, 19:36
Ah, Google (http://www.google.com) never fails. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

http://chantal.nobilitas.com/java/evolhelp/pictures/Image5.gif
Well, actually this is not the best of pictures - tilted and all - but it would appear it's the best on the Net currently.

To ruin a good, juicy myth with some dull science, Heike crabs existed before Dan-no-ura. They were just mighty rare as opposed to your basic run-of-the-mill crabs. However, some time after the battle, a typical Shintô myth developed around the rare breed of crabs (Heikea Japonica), and eventually, the local fishermen took up the practice of casting any crabs with the shell ridges back into the sea (would YOU want to accidentally eat the soul of one of Taira Kiyomori's sons?). As the other crab populations decreased due to the increasing amount of fishermen, the Heike crab took over what space they had left behind: they are now very common, and one of the most classic examples of the evolution theory in action.

Very in-depth additional info comes from (I hate to admit this http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) a Uesugi Yojimbo site: Quote The Heike gani or Heike crab (Heikea Japonica) has, on its carapace (shell), the image of a scowling human face. According to legend, these crabs are the ghosts of the Heike warriors who died during the sea battle at Dan-no-Ura (DH UY #14).

These small crabs reach a maximum size of 1.2 inches (31 mm) across their backs. The rear two legs on each side are much smaller and claw-like for carrying objects. Their red coloration further reinforced their connection to the Heike clan whose banners were also red. There are actually two varieties of “face crabs” along Dan-no-Ura. I’ve drawn the smaller Heike gani, which are the spirits of the common warriors. The slightly larger, more ornate taisho gani (chieftain crab), or tatsugashira (dragon helmet), were animated by the ghosts of the clan leaders.

The shell-images are not merely decorative but serve a specific purpose. They are the external grooves of support ridges, called apodemes, inside the carapace that are the sites where muscles are attached. These grooves occur in almost all species of crabs. There are other varieties of “face crabs” – the Kuei Lien Hsieh (ghost crabs) of China and the paradorippe granulata, a northwestern Pacific species, to name two.

Research on the crabs came from: the periodical Terra, vol. 31, no. 4 (Los Angeles: Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County, September 1993), sent to me by Kay Nakamura; Kotto by Lafcadio Hearn (Rutland, VT/Tokyo: Charles E. Tuttle Co., Inc., 1971) contains a chapter and drawings of these unusual crustaceans; and Japan Day by Day 1877-1883 by Edward Morse (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co., 1945) has drawings and a brief history of the crabs.[/QUOTE]Whew. I should be kept away from all WWW access - I get these "play the expert" attacks every time I use a search engine.

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"Si j'étais né en 17 à Leidenstadt / Sur les ruines d'un champ de bataille / Aurais-je été meilleur ou pire que ces gens / Si j'avais été Allemand?"
- Jean-Jacques Goldman: Né en 17 à Leidenstadt

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 03-27-2001).]

Tenchimuyo
03-27-2001, 21:47
Wow! It does look like a warrior's face. Amazing what nature can produce.

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A great warrior never reveal his true skills....

Ronin
03-27-2001, 23:22
yes it is amazing!
it shows the inpact that men can have in other species evolution even without trying.
the fact that the crabs with this unusual shell were not eaten and trown back into the water gave them an edge over the "normal" crabs that were eaten so that nowadays the "samurai" crabs represent the majority in that area!
men Darwin sure knew is stuff!

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"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

solypsist
03-28-2001, 02:40
great pic, makes me want to see what the others look like.
yes, mankind has totally screwed up the whole evolutionary process, in most every species, just by the nature of what we find pleasing or convenient.