FwSeal
03-28-2001, 13:01
My friend (and co-author at the Archives site) C West,and I came across a very interesting article in Gakken's 'Sengoku Kassen Taizen' vol.1 (Rekishi Gunzo #50) regarding the famous 4th Battle of Kawanakajima. This piece discusses some questions that surround the battle - and presents a compelling case that the traditional view of the battle may well be inaccurate.
Four main points are made.
1. A month after the battle, Shingen reported killing 3,000 Uesugi troops and claimed victory. Three days after the battle, Kenshin's battle citations cite that several thousand mounted Takeda troops were slain. Both claim victory - this much is well known, but is of relevance to the arguement as a whole.
2. After the battle, Shingen presented 2 of his generals with special citations for bravery, while Kenshin presented 7 citations. Compared to other battles the two fought in, these numbers are extremely low. To quote the article, '... if you were to look only at the number of citations, it would be impossible to think of the 4th Battle of Kawanakajima as a large battle.'
3. Within two months of the conclusion of the battle, Shingen moved into Kozuke and attacked at least two castles. For his part, Kenshin was already back to fighting the Hojo in Musashi just a month or so after 4th Kawanakajima. The author makes the very valid point that if the battle was as bloody and damaging as is normally assumed (with thousands of killed and thousands of wounded), then it seems very odd that within two months both armies were back in action with little to no apparent diminishment of their power.
4. The author spends the most time arguing that Kenshin's position on Saijoyama is rather implausible. For one thing, there are 2 other mountains in that area named 'Saijo' (with different kanji). The author presents various arguements that call into question the probability of Kenshin assuming a position on the Saijo mountain he did (or is said to have), including the proximity of Takeda forts to Kenshin's generally assumed path of advance. Among the other points is the fact that Uesugi Kagekatsu actually did take up a position on Saijo during a later stand-off with the Hojo family at Kawanakajima, leading some historians to suggest that early Edo Period writers confused the two battles.
The article concludes by saying that it may be assumed with some degree of certainty that the losses at the 4th Battle of Kawanakajima were not as great as they are said to have been - and certainly nowhere near 72% (the figure often given for the Uesugi side).
At any rate, I found the article very interesting.
[This message has been edited by FwSeal (edited 03-28-2001).]
Four main points are made.
1. A month after the battle, Shingen reported killing 3,000 Uesugi troops and claimed victory. Three days after the battle, Kenshin's battle citations cite that several thousand mounted Takeda troops were slain. Both claim victory - this much is well known, but is of relevance to the arguement as a whole.
2. After the battle, Shingen presented 2 of his generals with special citations for bravery, while Kenshin presented 7 citations. Compared to other battles the two fought in, these numbers are extremely low. To quote the article, '... if you were to look only at the number of citations, it would be impossible to think of the 4th Battle of Kawanakajima as a large battle.'
3. Within two months of the conclusion of the battle, Shingen moved into Kozuke and attacked at least two castles. For his part, Kenshin was already back to fighting the Hojo in Musashi just a month or so after 4th Kawanakajima. The author makes the very valid point that if the battle was as bloody and damaging as is normally assumed (with thousands of killed and thousands of wounded), then it seems very odd that within two months both armies were back in action with little to no apparent diminishment of their power.
4. The author spends the most time arguing that Kenshin's position on Saijoyama is rather implausible. For one thing, there are 2 other mountains in that area named 'Saijo' (with different kanji). The author presents various arguements that call into question the probability of Kenshin assuming a position on the Saijo mountain he did (or is said to have), including the proximity of Takeda forts to Kenshin's generally assumed path of advance. Among the other points is the fact that Uesugi Kagekatsu actually did take up a position on Saijo during a later stand-off with the Hojo family at Kawanakajima, leading some historians to suggest that early Edo Period writers confused the two battles.
The article concludes by saying that it may be assumed with some degree of certainty that the losses at the 4th Battle of Kawanakajima were not as great as they are said to have been - and certainly nowhere near 72% (the figure often given for the Uesugi side).
At any rate, I found the article very interesting.
[This message has been edited by FwSeal (edited 03-28-2001).]