Buildingchanges / If possible

[Stefan the Berserker]

If it's possible, why shouldn't we also mod the Techtree for the Buildings?

Changes to Barbarian Techtree I would wish:

- Stone Walls

Celts build Stonewalls, so the Celtic-Germanic Culture Group should be able to build Stonewalls. It's a major disadvantage in Defense on the Strategic Map if they can't, so they should get this.

Celtic Settlements - CA-friendly version (http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/reticulum/NorthernFrontier/TheWretchedBritons/CelticSettlements.htm)

http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/reticulum/NorthernFrontier/TheWretchedBritons/SETTLEMENTS/BrigantPalasade.jpg

- Well

Fresh Water is neccesary for any large Settlement, wheter it is roman, gaulish or anything. Should have the same purpose as mediterrainian Drains, but with smaller effect.

http://www.haus-hohenlinden.de/fotos/brunnen.jpg

- Steambath (maybe wrong, Sauna in german)

Sauna / Steambath - german Source (http://www.schaepp.de/sauna/)

Herodot reports about Steambaths used by the Scythians, the same way also Finns, Vikings and Germans used Steambaths. Anglo-Saxons called it the Stanbaeth, Stonebath. Diffrently to the complex roman Thermae these were just simple Huts with a Cellar and some Seats. Stones were put into fire to get hot and then flushed with Water which turned into Steam. After sweating and some cold Water from the Well, the Warrior is clean and fresh for another fight. This should be an improvement over the Well, for its appearance a simple Hut with a Well next to it should be far enough.

http://www.ifosys.de/images/schwitzhuette%20klein%204.02.jpg

BTW, that was and still is popular for other reasons then just getting clean... :gorgeous:

[Urnamma]

I second this. It would also be cool to add in forts made of stone that take a couple of turns to build.

[Ranika]

I'd like to see a structure for the Gauls at least that adds a bonus to the health of the city. I'm thinking some type of soap manufacturer (the Gauls DID invent soap), and it'd have an affect akin to the Roman baths. It could even be the same structure, with the same affects, but, of course, new graphics and descriptions.

Celts also constructed baths, but they weren't, usually, the large 'bath houses' of the Romans. Rather than emphasizing relaxation at the bath, with a secondary focus on getting clean, Gauls were very adamant about cleanliness. Filth was abhorred, heavily, so foremost was getting clean, so, baths didn't have to be a social event, so long as you cleaned yourself.

As an aside, why does one of the Roman things say 'These Gauls are mad and hairy beyond reason'? I mean, I know the Romans called Gauls mad in battle, but they tended to remove much or all of their body hair, with the exception, sometimes, of mustaches, or thin beards, though beards were more popular with Germans than Celts.

I'd also like to see, at least, Large Cities, for barbarians. Another main building could be a stone edifice of some kind, but then, there'd also need to be plenty of new graphics for all the new upgrades available to them with a new city size.

[Ranika]

I do have some other building suggestions, for temples. A lot of major dieties of different pantheons are ignored (where the f*** is Ashtare/Ishtar's temple for Carthage!? Or Morrigan's for the Gauls? The Death Goddess was worshipped a TON and completely ignored by CA). However, we can write new descriptions for current temples, for each side will use them. Like, the Parthian temple of one god (Zoroaster), if we add new descriptions to it for other sides, we can apply that temple to other factions, with all new descriptions, representing their other gods.

I thought about this mainly, and sure I'm not the first, because some very important gods are ignored, such as Ishtar and Morrigan, who were not paid attention. Just some of dieties I'd like to see added:

Ishtar for Carthage
Morrigan for Gaul
Sucellus for the Britons
Yaweh/El Shaddai/(numerous other names here, God has a LOT of names in Judiasm) would be interesting as a 'rebel' temple or something, to be built in the Israelite regions somewhere at the beginning of the game, representing the Jews, but that's an afterthought

And, I'd like to see the Romans able to build all the Roman temples (though I'd personally prefer the recommended 'Italian allies' faction, and the Senate), and possibly see a few gods added there.

[Tazmanius]

These Celtic(Barbarian?)Stone wall defences should(IMO)be, somewhat ,weaker when/if implemented in game in comparison to those of the great cities and major towns of civilised(sic) nations.

Would like to see implementation(But probably can't be done due to graphical considerations/map edits etc.)of bank and ditch defences and hillforts for British/Celtic cultures?

[Ranika]

I imagine adding ditches and such is possible, as the heights and such on a map ARE altered by barbarian villages (the raised center area), so I think it could editted to have ditches and embankments constructed as well around it. And if we have the Oppidium weaker than a civilized stone wall, perhaps have it buildable a bit earlier, at the large town phase? Or not, whatever. But later on, we could perhaps add a further upgrade to dig a ditch around the wall, which would prevent rams and the like of being much use against it (which is proper).

[Urnamma]

I do have some other building suggestions, for temples. A lot of major dieties of different pantheons are ignored (where the f*** is Ashtare/Ishtar's temple for Carthage!? Or Morrigan's for the Gauls? The Death Goddess was worshipped a TON and completely ignored by CA). However, we can write new descriptions for current temples, for each side will use them. Like, the Parthian temple of one god (Zoroaster), if we add new descriptions to it for other sides, we can apply that temple to other factions, with all new descriptions, representing their other gods.

I thought about this mainly, and sure I'm not the first, because some very important gods are ignored, such as Ishtar and Morrigan, who were not paid attention. Just some of dieties I'd like to see added:

Ishtar for Carthage
Morrigan for Gaul
Sucellus for the Britons
Yaweh/El Shaddai/(numerous other names here, God has a LOT of names in Judiasm) would be interesting as a 'rebel' temple or something, to be built in the Israelite regions somewhere at the beginning of the game, representing the Jews, but that's an afterthought

And, I'd like to see the Romans able to build all the Roman temples (though I'd personally prefer the recommended 'Italian allies' faction, and the Senate), and possibly see a few gods added there.

Amen. Especially the Astarte part.

[Ranika]

As an aside, I'm aware Sucellus was not a 'main' diety of the Britons, but truly was an interesting one, the hammer god, temple could be used, maybe, for some interesting units, I think, at least the Ordocorii hammer warriors, that'd be a cool unit, a real historical unit too, for the Britons.

Anyway, we need more temples, and for barbarian factions particularly, more infrastructure buildings. Currently, barbarian cities seem to just be collections of huts with a market and military buildings, totally neglecting the many amenities common to their cities.

I mean, the Romans didn't called the Gauls decadent because of their extravagant thatch and mud hut.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

If it's possible, why shouldn't we also mod the Techtree for the Buildings?
It's possible, but how far can we go isn't known yet. But these operations will be at a much later stage of the MOD.

[The_Emperor]

I agree with everything Stefan has said about the Barbarians.

The barbs need much better defences than they have and it is a real shame they have only been given a basic "wooden wall" around their settlements that is about as useful as the Picket fence we had in the early tech tree settlements in Viking Invasion!!

In addition I like the idea of hilltop settlements, the Britons had some very high and impressive hillforts and these were fully functional self-sufficient communities.

While I do not think the Barbarians need to have access to the "Large" and "Eipic" scale of defences, I do think they need some variation of stone walls.

[Dead Moroz]

Herodot reports about Steambaths used by the Scythians
Don't want to disappoint you, Stefan, but have to say that Herodotus did not wrote about any kind of baths used by Scythians. The custom he described was not hygienic procedure. It was one of the ways to use hemp as a drug. And it was Scythian religious ceremony... That's why they disappeared by the beginning of Common Era. ~;)

[Stefan the Berserker]

Shrine / Temple / Circle of Allfather

Allfather - german source (http://www.jok-design.de/rk/mytologie/gott/andere/allvater.htm)

Allfather is the oldest God in germanic myth, he has no body, he's just mind. This God is EXTREMELY similar to Yahwe, through still he isn't. Allfather has created the world and after Ragnarök - Armageddon - he'll create a new one which is purely good and peaceful.

This important God should have its own Temple. The Temple should make people happier and improove Lawship in the City.

Changeing the Gods names - for the English Version the germanic Gods should have their anglosaxon names and in the german Version their german ones...

Scandinavian -> English -> German

Odin -> Wodèn (don't forget the è) -> Wotan
Thor -> Thur -> Donar
Freya -> Freo* -> Frouva

*Frowe in modern English

This Name-changeing is simple, but already has got a good realism effect!

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Barbarian "Shrines" which are made of three big stones in RTW should be changed to holy Oaks. Trees and expecially Oaks were already holy because it are growing, peaceful Lifeforms suspected to host good Spirits. Bonifatius - a Missionaire sent to Germany - was killed because he cut down an holy Oak of Donar.

However, then I can plant my own holy tree... I'm too jealous on Gondor's one. ~D

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[Urnamma]

I know I said this already, but is there a possibility that we can make forts of stone somehow?

There did exist several castles at strategic places in the ancient world. I just think it'd be a cool feature. If it's possible, of course.

[Ranika]

Again on the temple subject, I also recommend the removal of Abnoba from Gaul, as she was actually an amalgam of a Roman goddess and a Gallic goddess (Arduinna), and was not worshipped before the invasion of the Romans. I recommend, at least, changing the name of this goddess to Arduinna, the proper name of the Gallic hunting goddess.

Also, with the addition of Arverni, perhaps including their god, Arvernus, would be proper, but aside from knowing the name, I know nothing about him (perhaps some one else here does), so no clue what would be proper to provide him with, in as much as bonuses for the temple.

Or possibly Doversiux, the god of sacrifices. Contrary to PC-ery, Doversiux DID have human sacrifices to him, incredibly blood ones. This was not an uneducated observation from outsiders, the worshippers of Doversiux was rather proud of themselves, as they saw it as a great devotion (which, logically, states that sacrifices of people were probably uncommon, otherwise why be proud?). He was patron to some of the Gaesatae in the south, and they were, themselves, probably a bit more blood thirsty than the average Gaul, as their lifestyle really dictated a necessary love of combat and death to keep them sane, what with all the constant warfare for various people.

Of the appearance of temples, not all barbarian cultures worshipped trees, but then, niether did they all use standing stones. But trees would be no more correct than stones. In many places, temples to gods weren't really different than Roman temples, in that it was a structure, with an organized interior for ceremonies. Not all shrines were open air.

[Stefan the Berserker]

As for the Barbarian's Tech Tree, what would people say if I attempt to edit a new one? I mean that I create a Matrix where the Buildings and their requirements are listed, together with their Effect... :book:

The Gods and their related Temples are Faction specific, I think they should be planned seperately.

[Ranika]

If we can get faction specific, within barbarian factions, I'd personally like the addition of a soap 'structure' (could just as easily just be like the Silk Road, an addition that doesn't actually add a structure to the town {does it? I've never seen it}, but gives the town a health bonus for having soap) for the Gauls, somehow give higher level farms for the Britons (they cultivated a very impressive strain of wheat that modern technology hasn't reproduced, the Romans commented on the quality of British wheat), and appropriate specifics for the other factions, but then, maybe just have them all share those, too.