Japanese Imperial Flag

[Kurando]

I was surfing on the Japanese Civil Defence Website (http://www.jda.go.jp) the other day and I was quite surprised to see that Japan still uses the old-style "WW2 flag" in the ranks of it's military. -Moreover, I always thought that it was an Naval flag, not Army?? Can some one please explain the history of this flag/ensign + I was under the impression that it was outlawed after WW2 (similar to the Swastika in Germany)?

http://www.jda.go.jp/jgsdf/info/image/so9b.jpg

[evilc]

the swastika isnt an army symbol, its the nazi, thats why it got blocked

[Anssi Hakkinen]

http://www.fotw.ca/images/jp-war.gif

The Imperial Naval Ensign (with 16 red rays) was first adopted on October 4, 1889, and loosely based on the Feudal coat of arms (mon) of Japan. It was used until the end of WW2, when it was not as much banned as its use discontinued due to the fact that Japan was forbidden to have a military of any kind. However, it was readopted by the Maritime Self-Defence Forces on June 30, 1954 - while some view it as a symbol of the Imperial militarism, as I demonstrated above, it is actually considerably older than any of the reasons for its "banning". (At least the Japanese have spheres enough to use controversial insignia, too - the Finnish Air Force still hasn't resumed using the von Rosen cross. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif )

http://www.fotw.ca/images/jp^gsfcl.gif

This flag, on the other hand, is shown in the picture above and is the current flag of the Japanese Ground Self Defence forces. It was conceived in 1954, and although similar in spirit to the Naval flag, is subtly different (the shape, only 8 rays, the gold edges). It has nothing to do with the pre-WW2 Japanese military.

(I will admit most of the wisdom here is acquired from Flags of the World (http://www.fotw.ca), but hey, someone has to be the messenger... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif)

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"Build city walls!"
- Military Advisor in Civilization 2

[FwSeal]

Thanks for the info, Anssi (and Kurando for bringing the matter up) - its very interesting stuff.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Thanks for expanding my knowledge.That second flag kind of resembles that Japanese craft of folding paper...what is the name?Aragami or something like that.

[Kurando]

Origami (http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca/Info/history.html)

+ thanks for the info Anssi.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

Thanks Anssi!

Moving further off topic, Anssi, I just read a book about the Winter War in 1939. The book is called Frozen Hell.

Finns are tough.

[Kurando]

Yep, I'll second that that! I hope Finland considers joining NATO.

[Koga No Goshi]

Kimiga yo wa Chiyoni

Yachiyoni Sazaréishi no,
Iwao to narité,
Koké no musumadé.

May thy peaceful reign last long!

May it last for thousands of years,

Until this tiny stone will grow into a massive rock

And the moss will cover it all deep and thick.

Japanese national anthem, Kimi Ga Yo. Very short, very pretty, definitely download it if you have a chance.



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Goshi of Koga
Now we disappear,
Well, what must we think of it?
From the sky we came.
Now we may go back again.
That's at least one point of view.
-Hojo Ujimasa's seppekku poem.

[Hawkeye]

Here in Japan there is still considerable opposition to the Hinomaru. In fact, the government recently passed a law that made schools use it. There were some extreme reactions. One Koocho sensei killed himself over the troubles at his school. He was caught between the new law and being told by the board of education he had to comply and by the teachers and PTA who objected to the flag.
There is a generational disparity on views of the Hinomaru. Those baby-boomers and older view it as Japan's banner of aggression, while the younger generations, those 30 and younger, like it. Part of the issue is, that Japan does not teach its young about the true horrors of the war it inflicted upon other nations. Japanese history, as learned by Japanese students, starts in the earliest periods and ends most interestingly at the Meiji restoration. I once asked why and was told that there was not enough time to teach modern Japanese history.

Japan, a country of extremes.

[Kurando]

It's interesting that you should mention that Hawk. -In another thread I related that I was speaking to one of my friends who was born and raised in Japan, and during the course of the conversation for whatever reason the subject of World War II came up.

I asked him how much he knew about the War, and he told me that even though he had a profound connection to the War, (both of his grandfathers had died in combat), he still knew next to nothing about what had happend during the course of the War, or why...

I asked him to explain himself and what he said really gave me a shock; he recalled that in his entire school-aged-life he had never heard one of his teachers mention the War, (other than a single passing reference to the bombing of Hiroshima), and moreover, that if you examine a standard Japanese school history textbook that it covers the period up to 1938, abruptly stops, and then starts again, to cover only the period from 1946 onward. In other words, (according to my friend): "there is absolutely no mention of WW2 in Japanese school texts, and as far as the Japanese education system is concerned: the War never happened at all..."

[Hawkeye]

Kurando
I believe that this trend goes back to the occupation when MacArthur and his aids tried their damnedest to "recreate" the emperor. Emperor Hirohito, to the contrary of popular believe, was deeply involved with the war. It was not a military dictatorship under Tojo as is believed. The Emperor had his hand in everything. MacArthur believed that the Emperor could be used to stabilize a country that was rife with starvation (in no small part due to Allied decision to punish Japan by withholding foodstuffs) and the Emperor could give the country a role model by which they could fashion themselves. The fact that Hirohito could have been designated a class A war criminal never was an option. He never had to admit responsibility for the crimes of his armies. That in turn let the conservatives, who were in power, to remain in power and effectively allowed them to direct how education would be. Since the emperor did not have to admit to any guilt, this let them gloss over their involvement in the war. It has continued to be so even today.


A recent event over here that has sparked a major diplomatic crises between China and Japan and Korea and Japan is over a revised history text book for junior high schools. The book speaks about how Korea welcomed the annexation to Japan. It does not offer any information on the war in Manchuria or China. This effect has pervades even the highest political sphere in Japan. One minister recently said that, and I am paraphrasing here, "in WWII Japan helped liberate Asian countries from European colonialism..." While it is technically true, European colonialism died after WWII, nevertheless the fact that Japan wanted to create their own empire under the auspicious phrase 'The Greater East-Asia Co-prosperity Sphere' is never mentioned, nor how they wished to bring it about.


Of course the sinking of the Ehime-maru, and the susequent outburst of demands for apologies from Bush himself does not help things when Japan has never really apologized for its role in WWII, does not help ease tensions between Japan and its closest neighbours.


Japan, a country of extremes.


[This message has been edited by Hawkeye (edited 06-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Hawkeye (edited 06-21-2001).]

[candidgamera]

Hawkeye:

Interesting. Reminds me of the treatment of the Japanese general in "Prisoners of the Sun" - he gets off and a minor officer gets made a scapegoat - all part of the package you mention.

Friend of mine who's fairly well up on WWI and its aftermath, and MacArthur was telling me that he was thinking about what happened in post Imperial Germany when the Kaiser went into exile and left a cultural/political vacuum that the nazis eventually filled, in how he dealt with the Japanese.

Sooner or later the Japanese, for their own good, are going to have to clean.