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Goofball
11-04-2004, 19:56
Hmmm...

Maybe I should have chosen a different title, because the one I picked might send liberals screaming for the hills.

Here's what I have in mind:

There has been a lot of talk about Bush's skills as a "uniter" and about how he has a record (in Texas) of being able to build consensus across party lines and unite the population. I propose to give him a chance to do this.

My pledge:

For the next six months, I will refrain from Bush-bashing (please note that I have even deleted my Bush-bashing signature) and wait and see what he does.

*grits teeth and hopes he has the strength to carry out his promise*

At the end of six months, I will return to this thread with my personal Bush "report card." I will try to be as objective as I can, and give him a chance to come through on his promise to unite America. The areas that I will be grading Bush on include, but are not limited to:

1) Social issues

2) Relations with other nations

3) Handling of Iraq

4) Economics

So, what do you say, lefties? Want to give it a shot?

If you do, sign up below and take the pledge...

DemonArchangel
11-04-2004, 20:42
Are you alright?
Have you forgotten your medication?
Do you need someone to talk to?

shakespeare_101
11-04-2004, 21:18
Goofball I admire your pledge.

LittleGrizzly
11-04-2004, 21:36
for reasons connected to my sanity i cannot sign the pledge but good luck goofball you'll need it...

Alexander the Pretty Good
11-04-2004, 21:49
Goofball - that sounds fair and honorable. Hope you can stick to it and thank you for trying - one less Bush-basher! I hope that I would do the same for Kerry if it was the other way around.

Griz - Does it burn you to look over your sig? You know, the part about Gawain saying Kerry would lose?

Snowhobbit
11-04-2004, 22:02
Hm, I'll sign in aswell can't really hurt ~;)

Mount Suribachi
11-04-2004, 22:29
Goofball, you never cease to amaze me :bow:

Your posts always produce one of 2 reactions in me

1) Fist waving at computer screen induced by one of your angry liberal outbursts :furious3:

2) Admiration for a particularly tolerant, well thought out and reasonable post. You could be rebuking a fellow liberal for overstepping the mark. You could be making a reasoned, intelligent lucid post, the kind of post that could have been made by someone like Simon Appleton. It doesn't matter, but you regularly surprise me (usually right after you've made me mad ~D ).

But with this you've really surpassed yourself............I hereby strip Rory_20_UK of his unofficial title of Most Schizo patron of the Backroom and award it to you :bow:



Oh, and for what its worth, I give it a week before you can't hold yourself in any longer.......maybe we should start a poll on "how long before Goofball explodes" ~D

Ronin
11-04-2004, 22:36
do i sign in for the lobotomy here too?


don´t think so ~D

Goofball
11-04-2004, 22:58
Goofball, you never cease to amaze me :bow:

Your posts always produce one of 2 reactions in me

1) Fist waving at computer screen induced by one of your angry liberal outbursts :furious3:

2) Admiration for a particularly tolerant, well thought out and reasonable post. You could be rebuking a fellow liberal for overstepping the mark. You could be making a reasoned, intelligent lucid post, the kind of post that could have been made by someone like Simon Appleton. It doesn't matter, but you regularly surprise me (usually right after you've made me mad ~D ).

But with this you've really surpassed yourself............I hereby strip Rory_20_UK of his unofficial title of Most Schizo patron of the Backroom and award it to you :bow:



Oh, and for what its worth, I give it a week before you can't hold yourself in any longer.......maybe we should start a poll on "how long before Goofball explodes" ~D
Believe me, MS, I am a little worried myself, but I'll give it the old college try...

:help:

BTW, where is Rory, I haven't seen him around for a while?

PanzerJaeger
11-04-2004, 23:33
Intresting, but i find it hard to believe.

Goofball
11-04-2004, 23:35
Intresting, but i find it hard to believe.
Me too, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

JAG
11-04-2004, 23:50
Good luck, I think you are foolish to close your eyes to the problems Bush will cause though.

Gawain of Orkeny
11-04-2004, 23:55
He didnt say he wouldnt critisize him only that he wouldnt bash him ~D

My hats off to you Goofball. Lets get a good Israeli topic going to keep you busy ~:)

Quid
11-04-2004, 23:56
I think you misunderstand JAG. I doubt he will close his eyes to the problems Bush may cause. He will simply shut his gob for 6 months (or about a week) and then throw a tantrum because he can no longer hold his peace ;).

Quid

Aurelian
11-05-2004, 01:15
:inquisitive: :evilgrin: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :stare:

I don't think so.

Why would you give Bush SIX MONTHS to prove how awful he is again.

Jesus, the standard honeymoon period for a brand new president is only 100 days.

Besides, he's already talked about what he is going to do.

1) Privatize social security. He's going to "allow" young people to set up private retirement accounts that will help prop up the value of his rich friend's stocks. Somehow, he will find the money for this even though current social security benefits are paid out of current receipts, and the "surplus" generated by social security is shifted into the general budget to make the deficit look smaller. Where will the money for this come from? Increasing payroll taxes? Reduced benefits? More national debt to be paid in our old age? This is really just an attempt to artificially boost asset prices for the financial markets. The whole point of social security is that it is an insurance policy that guarantees a minimum income to the elderly. Siphoning funds out of the pool of insurers is no way to guarantee the stability of the system.

2) "Tax reform". That should be good. Grover Norquist has said that a part of this will be the complete elimination of inheritance taxes. Goodie. Let's see just how much we can concentrate wealth! Let's reward the idle children of the wealthy and shift the tax burden further onto the working population. A fantastic idea.

3) "Tort reform". A great idea. If your child or spouse is killed through corporate or medical negligence, your damages get capped at $250,000 or so. That's a great way to keep people honest. Just so everyone knows, the states where tort reform have been enacted have seen no decrease in insurance rates. The insurers just keep your money. Why would they decrease your rates? Another sop to corporate interests, and an explicitly stated attempt to weaken "trial lawyers" because they are seen as part of the Democratic coalition.

4) An anti-gay marriage amendment to the Constitution. Fantastic. Let's pass the first Constitutional amendment in history to make sure that somebody doesn't get a right. Oh yeah, we've got to "protect marriage". If Siegried and Roy tie the knot our heterosexual marriages will lose all meaning.

5) Stay the course in Iraq. Because we all know how well that is working out.

6) More federalist society judges! Because we need more Antonin Scalia's on the Supreme Court. I was sick of my consitutional rights anyway. Oh, and as a plus, we'll probably get to go back to the days when women were dying as a result of backroom abortions.

We'll probably also get a lot of further federal money channeled into religious institutions and schools. Jefferson and Madison are rolling in their graves as we speak.

We'll also see more cavalier disregard of the consequences of what is by now really obvious climate change; and more initiatives from Bizarro world: "Clear Skies", "Healthy Forests", "Cooler Planet".

Oh! And more torture! Let's not forget the torture! The "value voters" apparently don't mind a little torture, secret imprisonment, or indefinite detainment under horrid conditions without legal counsel.

So.... That's the agenda that Bush has already put forward. I'm not in favor of it, and I already know that Bush is a horrible president, so he won't get any slack from me just because he managed to convince a very confused 51% of the populace to vote for him.

As we saw from the PIPA poll a couple of weeks ago, most of Bush's supporters were completely detached from reality and didn't even know their own candidate's position on the issues. Well, I do know his position on the issues, and I'm not going to lay off of him in order to achieve some fanciful notion of "unity". For the president, "unity" just means "you're either with us, or against us." That's all.

Louis VI the Fat
11-05-2004, 01:19
Come on, Goof. You are to liberalism what Yoda is to the Force. We need you to crush the forces of darkness - lest the Dark Side succeed in establishing it's worldwide evil empire.

Anyway, I don't think you'll last a week... ~:handball:

Gawain of Orkeny
11-05-2004, 01:19
Looks like a nice list to me. ~:) Here your crying towel :bigcry:

Devastatin Dave
11-05-2004, 15:52
Hmmm...

Maybe I should have chosen a different title, because the one I picked might send liberals screaming for the hills.

Here's what I have in mind:

There has been a lot of talk about Bush's skills as a "uniter" and about how he has a record (in Texas) of being able to build consensus across party lines and unite the population. I propose to give him a chance to do this.

My pledge:

For the next six months, I will refrain from Bush-bashing (please note that I have even deleted my Bush-bashing signature) and wait and see what he does.

*grits teeth and hopes he has the strength to carry out his promise*

At the end of six months, I will return to this thread with my personal Bush "report card." I will try to be as objective as I can, and give him a chance to come through on his promise to unite America. The areas that I will be grading Bush on include, but are not limited to:

1) Social issues

2) Relations with other nations

3) Handling of Iraq

4) Economics

So, what do you say, lefties? Want to give it a shot?

If you do, sign up below and take the pledge...

Good for you Goof. ~:)

Devastatin Dave
11-05-2004, 15:54
Man i can't edit, so I'll add. Thank you Goof for being a truelly "open-minded" person. Many, including myself, could learn much from your reasoning.

The_Emperor
11-05-2004, 18:02
I admire your tolerance for giving Bush another chance Goofball, I am a pessimist and Bush's reputation of being a "uniter" seems to me to have extended only to his Republican base (I mean come on it is TEXAS, hardly a Liberal's haven).

At any rate the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I will watch closely to see if he can be a uniter as well a divider... But given this is the President who spectacularly shattered the massive post-9/11 military/political coalition, I must say that I see no reason to be optimistic.

ah_dut
11-05-2004, 19:35
OH well, I too will refrain from bush bashing and bushisms for about a week probably...

Colovion
11-05-2004, 22:08
the best thing about Bush's "Unit the People" speech was when he said "I reach out to everyone who shares our goals..."

wtf? how can you unite a nation when you're reaching out to those who elected you in the first place?

Plantagenet
11-05-2004, 22:17
Goofball, while I'm betting that you will be disappointed, I sincerely admire the effort nonetheless. Here's hoping you're not let down...

A.Saturnus
11-05-2004, 22:18
the best thing about Bush's "Unit the People" speech was when he said "I reach out to everyone who shares our goals..."

wtf? how can you unite a nation when you're reaching out to those who elected you in the first place?


Maybe he means that all have the same goals in the end and it´s only the means to achieve them that differ?
Anyone, this is a very honourable proposal you make Goofball and please consider the Tavern staff standing behind you to encourage you
...with a cattle prod :evilgrin:

Goofball
05-30-2005, 19:25
Hmmm...

Maybe I should have chosen a different title, because the one I picked might send liberals screaming for the hills.

Here's what I have in mind:

There has been a lot of talk about Bush's skills as a "uniter" and about how he has a record (in Texas) of being able to build consensus across party lines and unite the population. I propose to give him a chance to do this.

My pledge:

For the next six months, I will refrain from Bush-bashing (please note that I have even deleted my Bush-bashing signature) and wait and see what he does.

*grits teeth and hopes he has the strength to carry out his promise*

Well, six months have passed, and I although I have skirted the edges of bashing Bush a couple of times, I have remained true to my pledge. Now, let's see how he's done.


At the end of six months, I will return to this thread with my personal Bush "report card." I will try to be as objective as I can, and give him a chance to come through on his promise to unite America. The areas that I will be grading Bush on include, but are not limited to:

1) Social issues

2) Relations with other nations

3) Handling of Iraq

4) Economics

I probably should have waited for a longer time period, because this is going to be a bit of a boring report card.

1) Social issues:
Nothing really new on this front. Although he has made his position clear on issues such as gay marriage and abortion, he hasn't really done anything concrete to try to push his agenda.

C+

2) Relations with other nations
Although he has made some visits to other nations, and has paid lip service to easing some of the issues between trading partners, he hasn't done much in this department either. Although I do give him some credit for his recent attempt to reach out to Palestinians.

C

3) Handling of Iraq
Overlooking the fact that the U.S. should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, I will grudgingly admit that Bush has at least not made things any worse than they were at the end of his first term. Elections have been held, which is positive, but I still don't really see any light at the end of the tunnel as far as a date when the U.S. will be able to pull its troops out and let the Iraqi security forces take over.

B-

4) Economics
Nothing new to report here. I don't think Bush has had any impact on the U.S. economy one way or the other since he began his second term.

C

Finally, I know I didn't mention this as a topic in my first post, but I felt it needed to be added:

5) Human rights
Abysmal. America, the beacon of democracy, continues to hold prisoners with no evidence, no charges, and no foreseeable day in court. Every day more allegations of abuse surface and they are becoming harder and harder to dismiss. Shameful.

F

KukriKhan
05-30-2005, 19:41
So 1.7, a High D, or Low C. Funny, wasn't that about his uni gpa?

Kudo's on your experiment. :thumbsup:

ichi
05-31-2005, 01:12
There has been a lot of talk about Bush's skills as a "uniter" and about how he has a record (in Texas) of being able to build consensus across party lines and unite the population.

you gotta be sh!tt!n me

How did I miss this?

He is driven to polarize this country, and his entire administration works on a foundation of lies. But you did good sticking to your it seems, as I don't recall to much bashing on your part

ichi :bow:

PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 01:44
Heres my opinion.

1) Social issues

Hes put a stop to progressive movements like gun control and the homosexual lobby - they dont even bother trying to push their agenda through congress and have been forced to use activist judges. Also, he hasnt brought us into a theocracy or anything crazy like that. Hes maintained the status quo with an emphasis on traditionalism.

A-

2) Relations with other nations

He has repaired relations with western europe as much as can be expected. Hes made us great friends in East Europe, while still keeping Putin as a "strategic partner", which is really a diplomatic coup. Of course hes still viewed as a cowboy and thats not all just propaganda - he puts US interests ahead of the worlds. Thats not a bad thing by the way.

B (Most Improved Award :thumbsup:)

3) Handling of Iraq

Frankly not great. The administration or the military seems to have learned nothing from vietnam about the media or how to win an insurgency. We may be progressively winning over there, but were losing over here. The elections keep him from failing though, good show.

D

4) Economics

Great. The numbers have been good for a while now, and we all know the administration gets the blame/glory even though it doesnt really do much with the economy.

B+


A little different than Goofball's, which is to be expected. ~:)

Tachikaze
05-31-2005, 01:45
Wow, Goof, did you set your alarm for 6 months?

This is the most divisive president I can remember, exceeding even Reagan. It's time to change the name of this country to DSA.

Alexander the Pretty Good
05-31-2005, 03:28
Abraham Lincoln was pretty divisive. :bow:

Tachikaze
05-31-2005, 04:50
Abraham Lincoln was pretty divisive. :bow:
Strange; I thought he led a war to unify the country, opposed to the Red States who wanted to split the US and continue slavery. In Shelby Foote's words, the nation went from "these United States are" to "the United States is". The division already existed before Lincoln's election.

The present division existed before Bush's election as well, but he has increased it, rather than reduced it. This country is in for some painful social conflict.

JAG
05-31-2005, 05:33
Wow, Goof, did you set your alarm for 6 months?

This is the most divisive president I can remember, exceeding even Reagan. It's time to change the name of this country to DSA.

Well said, Goof I am not sure your reasoning behind some of your scoring. For isntance -



2) Relations with other nations
Although he has made some visits to other nations, and has paid lip service to easing some of the issues between trading partners, he hasn't done much in this department either. Although I do give him some credit for his recent attempt to reach out to Palestinians.

C

And no mention of his appointments to the WTO and UN? Ha!

Redleg
05-31-2005, 06:15
Strange; I thought he led a war to unify the country, opposed to the Red States who wanted to split the US and continue slavery. In Shelby Foote's words, the nation went from "these United States are" to "the United States is". The division already existed before Lincoln's election. Someone needs to do a little reading on Lincoln.



The present division existed before Bush's election as well, but he has increased it, rather than reduced it. This country is in for some painful social conflict.

We have been there before (more then once actually) and the nation survived it - it will survive the next round of social upheaval also.

Tachikaze
05-31-2005, 07:14
We have been there before (more then once actually) and the nation survived it - it will survive the next round of social upheaval also.
It survived the Civil War, as well. That doesn't mean I want another one. I don't even want another 1968, but Bush is leading us on that path.

PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 07:40
The country is too fat and happy for real civil strife in my opinion.

People would rather sit in their comfortable couches watching their plasma screen TVs than go out on the streets. If theyre feeling particularly political, they might watch O'Reilly. ~;)

Beirut
05-31-2005, 11:37
To support Bush or not to support Bush. That is the question. Whether t'is nobler to suffer the slings and cruise missiles of George's outrageous fortune or...

Aw, what the hell.

:director: "Bush is a toadstool!"

Then again, so is every leader of every government of every country in the world.

Husar
05-31-2005, 13:56
The country is too fat and happy for real civil strife in my opinion.

People would rather sit in their comfortable couches watching their plasma screen TVs than go out on the streets. If theyre feeling particularly political, they might watch O'Reilly. ~;)

That´s what we have in most countries of the 1st world I guess.
I remember someone saying that modern governments would control people this way, so there is no need to use force, maybe he was right. ~;)

Tachikaze
05-31-2005, 15:15
The country is too fat and happy for real civil strife in my opinion.

People would rather sit in their comfortable couches watching their plasma screen TVs than go out on the streets. If theyre feeling particularly political, they might watch O'Reilly. ~;)
This is the most intelligent thing you've written. You won this debate. :bow:

I would only change "happy" to "pursuing happiness", because they never reach it. They never have enough plasma TVs.

PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 18:52
LoL well i will agree that far too many people dont ever settle for what they have. A consumer driven economy has its ups and downs. (The downs being excessive greed.)