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Koga No Goshi
07-04-2001, 22:08
I was just talking to Toranaga-sama in AIM yesterday (he's in Japan on vacation right now! Bastid!!!) and he just went to Odawara Castle yesterday and saw the Hojo clan banner all over the place and ... and and ... ok, that's another thread. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

We were talking about samurai movies and our mutual love of the book Shogun. We were talking about how in movies, the samurai era seems restricted to two things: stories about individual samurai (Think Seven Samurai) or daimyo-level movies that are disappointly lacking in the action department. Heaven and Earth was the only exception we could think of. Does anyone know of any movies they could recommend that show samurai warfare on a larger scale, not just in the one on one swordfight category?



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Koga no Goshi

Why did you bring 16 Female Ashigaru? Keep clicking weather, they're only strong one week a month.

Takeda Shingen
07-04-2001, 23:05
Well i think Ran and Kagemusha was pretty good in terms of battle scenes,but this IMHO.
Although it would be great if someone could do the Battle of Sekigahara on film in all it's glory.ALl i have is a little bit of the battle from a Japanese program you could say a soap opera.

Michael

Toranaga sama
07-04-2001, 23:11
Sekigahara would be good... 150,000 samurai in one place would give me the chills... if someone could write a drama to fit the grand scope of the battle that wouldn't be cheesy.

Koga No Goshi
07-05-2001, 01:40
Yes!!! Sekigahara! They need to make it.

Let's just make sure it's done by a Japanese company and not an American one. If an American company does it, there will be terrific special effects but 90% of the movie will be devoted to some random white guy coming in and stealing the hottest possible Japanese girl in the movie.

hehe


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Koga no Goshi

Why did you bring 16 Female Ashigaru? Keep clicking weather, they're only strong one week a month.

Shuko
07-05-2001, 07:25
Sekigahara.

Actually the true number of soldiers killed in that decisive battle was low ie. several thousand in total. One to two months later the armies were fighting again so neither army was fatefully weakened at Sekigahara. It would also be interesting to make an accurate film about Hideyori and Osaka Castle being killed/destroyed by the Tokugawa Shogun.

Orion12
07-05-2001, 11:10
Quote Originally posted by Koga No Goshi:
Yes!!! Sekigahara! They need to make it.

Let's just make sure it's done by a Japanese company and not an American one. If an American company does it, there will be terrific special effects but 90% of the movie will be devoted to some random white guy coming in and stealing the hottest possible Japanese girl in the movie.

hehe

[/QUOTE]

You are so right. Chances are the movie would end up becoming a romantic comedy and the main actors replaced with American actors. I can just picture Brad Pitt and Mel Gibson dawning Samurai armor now as they prepare to lead troops into battle.
Samurai banners well be replaced with american flags tipped on their sides and the main character will do the primary killing of all enemy soldiers on the battlefield thus single handedly winning the day for Americ.....I mean Japanese honor.
Of course supporting cast would go to Ben Affleck as the Emperor, Matt Damon as The Shogun, Will Smith as the wise crackin Taisho and Julia Roberts as the main Japanese love interest.

Toranaga sama
07-05-2001, 11:28
hahahaha I can imagine that....

I could have sworn the death toll at Sekigahara was like 40,000. Oh well.

LOL @ Orion

Koga No Goshi
07-05-2001, 12:02
The death toll was so low compared to a very large total army count on both sides because so many of the daimyo involved wanted to stand by and see who would emerge victorious, and remain on good terms with the victor. The fighting that was done, however, was ferocious and legendary and the Japanese still continue to write about it today. (I just read something the other day that was translated from a Japanese newspaper about Shimazu Yoshihiro's charge in SekiGahara).



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Koga no Goshi

Why did you bring 16 Female Ashigaru? Keep clicking weather, they're only strong one week a month.

Takeda Shingen
07-05-2001, 16:10
For those you don't know how many men were at Sekigahara so here's the figures-

Eastern Army
Tokugawa Ieyasu Commander
89,288 men

Western Army
Ishida Mitsunari Battlefield Commander
87,390 men
Now the losses suffered by the Western Army was around 40,000 dead.I don't know what losses Ieyasu suffered.Also you have to include the 27,900 men who defected from the Western Army.

Michael

FwSeal
07-05-2001, 23:34
A recent Taiga drama was done about the first three Tokugawa shoguns and featured Sekigahara. As Taiga dramas go, the battle was pretty impressive (the older ones really didn't have battles or used and reused the same shots of archers loosing arrows and a few samurai falling down. Some of them only implied battles - that is, 'We leave for Kawanakajima (or wherever) tomorrow!', then a scene inside the camp curtains, with someone saying, 'The fighting was tough today!', then return to the castle afterwards http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Takeda Shingen
07-06-2001, 00:34
I taped recently say within a year a program called the Tokugawa Regime,it ran over 50 episodes which i taped every one.The first episode dealt with the Battle of Sekigahara and was pretty good you saw alot of the main characters including Mitsunari and Ieyasu.So after the first episode which was a two part episode then we saw the events that led up to Sekigahara,and even the assault on Osaka Castle.It would be nice if someone could do a movie about the battle but who knows.

Michael

Shuko
07-06-2001, 07:59
Quote Originally posted by FwSeal:
A recent Taiga drama was done about the first three Tokugawa shoguns and featured Sekigahara. As Taiga dramas go, the battle was pretty impressive (the older ones really didn't have battles or used and reused the same shots of archers loosing arrows and a few samurai falling down. Some of them only implied battles - that is, 'We leave for Kawanakajima (or wherever) tomorrow!', then a scene inside the camp curtains, with someone saying, 'The fighting was tough today!', then return to the castle afterwards http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif [/QUOTE]

Was that released to buy the series in the USA or was it on TV ? Never heard of it out here.

Toranaga sama
07-06-2001, 16:24
Every year NHK does a historical drama as a miniseries. Last year was Tokugawa, (my host-grandfather gave me the guide for it) and this year it is the 1300 Hojos, and the Mongols. It is quite entertaining despite the language barrier.

Takeda Shingen
07-07-2001, 00:42
I'm watching that program every Sat around 8:30 P.M. PST.As i said i've seen several of these programs i even saw a five hour program about Date Masamune(the one eyed Dragon).

Michael

TenkiMadoka
07-19-2001, 05:53
Ahem (clears throat)...

The only way for us (living in the western world) to get any type of movies concerning the 'samurai', is to actually live in Japan.
Even then, it will be hard since many Japanese people are interested in the 'American' culture rather than theirs.

:leaves the room:

Tenki-Madoka

NOLA_Jay
07-19-2001, 14:17
The Only 2 I can think of off hand have allready been posted.

Wich were:

Heaven and Earth (Ten To Chi To) (1990)
Heaven and Earth was also released under the Title Ten To Chi To. It was also filmed entirely in Canda and Directed by a real-life Shinto priest. The version released in Japan had a running time of 119 minutes, while the English Subtitled release has a running time of 107 minutes.

Ran (1985)
Academy Award winning Akira Kurawasaw film based on Shakespear's King Lear. I just watched it again a few days ago. Runing Time is 160 minutes.

If you are interesting in getting these films or some other samurai try this link, if you haven't already.
http://www.sengoku.com/viewlist.html


Additionaly keep your eyes open on Bravo, Turner Classic Movies, and the Indepent Film Chanel. Ran has aired on all 3 staions before, and Bravo showed Heaven and Earth. I'm personally hopeing Turner Movie Classics does another month of Akira Kurawasaw movies, they showed every A.K. movie made in letter box format with subtitles a while back in the time period of a month.