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Hawkeye
07-17-2001, 10:00
What are some of your perceptions or thoughts regarding the Japan of today?


Japan, a country of extremes.

Shuko
07-17-2001, 14:00
I am no economist but I think Japan is going downhill because it has almost no raw materials. The whole fabric of their society is changing and it is every person for himsel/herself now, no lifetime job security. The old age pension system is very low, thats why they save so much of their money.

They will slip down the world economic ladder and their standard of living will drop accordingly.

Hawkeye
07-18-2001, 06:02
Shuko:

Yeah, the Japanese economy has been stagnating for the last 12 years! But, I think that with Koizumi things might look a little better. The problem was, and is until reform comes through, that the japanese government tended to ignore the problem and actually made matters worse by using public funds to bail out insurance/bank/contruction companies. In the eighties, before the bubble crash, loans were given out with no regard for the ability for the loanee's to return the cash. Interest rates are legally up to 109% even to this day.

The Koizumi government has now vowed to actually not bail out insurance or banks any more. It is a bitter pill, but one that is necessary and actually should have been done years ago. The ability of the japanese people to ignore problems is almost legendary.

Japan, a country of extremes.

Doragon_Ajidrik
07-18-2001, 06:10
All Japan has to do is reform thier financial sector and they wont go down the ladder like Shuko say. It wiil be hard in the short term but it the long run it will help their economy. They have trillions in postal savings and that should help them in the short run. But they need finanacial reforms!

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RUN, to live to run another day!

Honor to Clan Doragon
www.doragon.cjb.net (http://www.doragon.cjb.net)

Tachikaze
07-18-2001, 08:39
I think the economy will recover. Nations go through upswings and downswings.

What I'm keeping my eye on is the social situation. The Japanese public is changing fast. The new young people are nothing like their parents. I see social revolution similar to what happened in the US and Europe in the 60s and 70s. I think there will be some painful adjustments to the attitudes of the new generations and their attempts to make new policies work in a system that was built around Japanese traditional values.

I know a lot of Japanese, and most the people of the younger generations are rejecting or resenting almost all traditional behaviors, values, and norms. Many want to leave Japan altogether.

Zen Blade
07-18-2001, 08:56
Tachikaze,

yes and no...

those youth in the US I would agree with you. However, I know the pop culture is still extremely commercial in Japan. You can find underground stuff easily enough, but mainstream commercialism is still all about image (unless I am misinformed), not substance.

Their may be currents of rebellion, as in any society, amongst the youth, but I think their mainstream pop culture is worse than ours. Conformity is big. And embarassing situations are still kept secret, not too likely to talk about stuff that displeases people.

As for the economy, I think the banking/financial sector is the main problem from what I have read. Supposedly businesses were at one time allowed to use projected earnings/growth as collatoral and such when taking out loans and different investments... thus, if something failed, you couldn't really "fore close" on anything.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

jskirwin@yahoo.com
07-20-2001, 02:08
I lived in Japan from 92-97 and it's only been within the past year or so that I've finally recovered my fascination for that country.

I lived off the Tokkaido in Eastern Kyoto along a ridge which Oda once held. I often walked the streets and imagined the fires burning in his camp, or the processions of the Daimyo on their way to pay homage to Edo.

However there was a running joke among gaijin that if you wanted to learn more about the history of a place, ask a foreigner. The Japanese young people were just as disrespectful of their past as young people anywhere, and it was only the middle aged or elderly who thought about anything Japanese.

Modern Japan is a pressure cooker - perhaps it always has been, I don't know. When the plane took off from Osaka, it was like a weight lifting off my shoulders; when it was landing, I felt pushed down into my seat.

I was an eikaiwa teacher, so the Japan I saw wasn't ideal. I had junior-high schoolers fall asleep in my class, middle-aged men break down crying, and children so afraid of gaijin that they wouldn't make a sound in any language for months on end. I even saw the immediate aftermath of a suicide on the Keihan line that kept me awake for almost three days. I kept seeing the young woman's slender gold watch on her arm fall as the white-gloved train men lifted her limp body to the platform. Who had given her the watch? Did she look at it to time her jump in front of the Tokkyu? The phone calls being made to the relatives, the lives turned inside out while the schoolboys on my train laughed and said "kimochi waruii".

The streets smelled of cigarettes and at night beer. Living above a karaoke bar meant dodging piles of puke in the morning. I saw middle-aged married men act like schoolboys over girls younger than their daughters, worked with a fellow gaijin beaten into a coma by bosozoku thugs pissed that he was walking along the Kamo River with a Japanese girl, and regularly fell asleep to their revving 50cc engines.

Modern Japan has lost its connections to its past. It exists almost as a gaudy copy of America, with a bit of European nihilism thrown in. Somewhere the Japanese have lost an important component of their culture and history. What that is, I'm not sure. Dare I say Japan has lost it's soul?

What do I know, I'm just "henna gaijin".

James Kirwin

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Sweep the mind of all thoughts.

Tachikaze
07-20-2001, 08:06
James,
That was an excellent post. Japan's an extreme place, perhaps lost because of losing so much tradition with nothing to fill the void.

As much as I have seen most of what you described, it is mixed with beauty and genuinely good-hearted, rational people.

My last time there, last winter, I was in Kyoto (fairly close to Gion). Like the other cities I've been in, there is a strange weight I feel hanging over the urban area.

Zen-Blade,
Even though we see the youth of Japan (I'm talking 18-20-year-olds here) as being fashion business consumers, they perceive themselves as shocking the older generations with the most outrageous fashions they can dream up.

They are getting quite hideous, and they are fully aware of it. The girls are rejecting the sweet, demure, neatly-dressed image of earlier generations, and at the same time rejecting their "Japaneseness" far beyond just dying their hair brown. They come in all colors now, skin and hair. They are acting rude almost to a point of hilarity.

The guys are overdoing the "bad" image to a ridiculous degree, as well. Many now sit around sheepishly doing nothing. They dwell on the loner rebel image. And, of course, the worse they treat their girlfriends, the better it fits in with that image (the girls are equally nasty to the guys, in their own ways).

It used to be that all generations went through a period of rebelling, especially right after the strict high school codes and "exam hell". But lately, they aren't fully emerging from that attitude. I don't blame them; what do enlightened people in that society have to look forward to? This new generation will be the backbone of the Japanese nation someday, and kuso is going to start hitting the fan.

Zen Blade
07-20-2001, 12:41
ok,

that actually makes some sense tachikaze... sad sense, but sense none the less.

Actaully, that brings up a point I like to make about "rebellion" here in the US and elsewhere.... the (what I like to call) the "conformity rebellion" (or something). It really isn't rebelling when everyone else is doing the exact same thing. I like to site such acts as various piercings, hair-dying, tatoos, etc... to support this opinion.

This is how I view the pop culture of Japan. And thus, I don't see it as any sort of counter-culture or rebellion. Even the underground movements here in the US become commercialized after rather short periods of times. Take the Rave scene here in California. The smaller ones (so I'm told) still try to keep to the original meaning, but the bigger ones are completely "sold-out".

ok, I will stop now before I begin ranting and raving like the mad man I all too often am.
: )

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[This message has been edited by Zen_Blade (edited 07-20-2001).]

Hawkeye
07-20-2001, 19:17
Wow, cool posts!

Just as some background info, I am currently living in Awaji-shima, part of Hyogo-ken and near Kobe. In fact, I have lived in Japan for 2 years and in one week I am flying back home. There are some bittersweet feelings I have and will continue to have for the next little while. Of course returning home and knowing that I will be concidered 'normal' as opposed to the near celebrity status I have enjoyed here in Japan will be hard to stomach, but my ego will endure the unendurable http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

James, sounds like you had some harsh experiences while in Japan. My only response to your unfortunate luck to view the suicide and the resulting laughter of the school boys... might they have been laughing nervously. I mean for all the time I have been in Japan I have come to be an expert at the Japanese laugh... at least I hope I have. Rarely, do the japanese actually laugh and mean it. Whenever they feel uncomfortable, or don't know what to say, or are nervous they laugh. It is a perfect way to keep their true thoughts hidden.. and in that way the youths of today's japan are very much like their traditional parents. To show emotion is to show weekness.

On the flip side of that coin, and of course Japanese culture has been refered to as a coin with extreme opposites and fluxuations, the youth of today are rebelling. I taught in a high school of medium difficulty and the students would rebel by dying their hair or smoking, much like students in canada or the US... Some go farthur than others.. that too is no different than other western countries. The real problem is, and I think you mentioned this is that the youth of today are challenging a system meant for the youth of 30 years ago! It will get worse before it gets better.

Tachikaze
The youth use their rebellion and it has become socially acceptable in some ways. For example I am sure you have heard of Yanki girls, or Orenji girls. They wear 11 cm soled shoes and gaudy make up and outlandish clothing.. They do it because it gives them more freedom. When the older generations see a girl dressed like that they expect to see that girl smoking, or drinking, or acting outlandish. If they see that same girl in normal attire, they become offended and expect that girl to act accordingly, ie properly. The bad girl is ignored and the good girl is demonized... interesting dynamics.

Japan, a country of extremes.

jskirwin@yahoo.com
07-20-2001, 21:23
I half-dreaded checking this thread today, expecting to be flamed for my comment above; but it looks like it was viewed in the right spirit. Let me reiterate that besides America, there is no other country in the world that grips my imagination and spirit more than Dai Nippon. It's the reason why I enjoy STW so much.

Japan is a country of extremes and opposites as you astute guys understand. For every "Gaijin kiirai!" there was a shy smile, for every bad experience, an over-the-top good one. While I don't want to ever live there again, I do want to visit regularly - yearly if possible. Even now the sound of the cicadas in the opening of STW brings on the full "natsukashii" feeling.

The kids were laughing, not nervously, but in the ignorant way kids do when they see something horrific which they don't understand completely. Junior high kids are at what I call the "Lord of the Flies" stage - where they are capable of excess cruelty while being incapable of feeling their own conscience. Note that this is also the time when bullying occurs.

As for the young people... I'm 34, married with kid today but spent most of my non-yuppie life in the underground Punk and Goth scenes. Still, what I saw in Japan went way beyond anything I ever saw in LA in '89.

Why do Japanese girls do that to their hair? And since when did Japanese girl become butch and boys go femme? I'm not sure if my feelings reflect ageism on my part or some semblance of common sense.

Japan seems to swing from one extreme to another - so chances are there will be a swing away from hating all things Japanese to extreme nationalism. The Japanese need to have a healthy nationalism - which they lack now. What worries me is that once they start heading to the Right, there's nothing to stop them.

Hawkeye: Be prepared for a bit of reverse culture shock when you come back - and for wicked gyoza cravings...

Regards
JK

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Sweep the mind of all thoughts.

Koga No Goshi
07-21-2001, 03:21
I just caught up on this thread today... and something that struck me from what each of you had to say was this: it sounds like Japan's youth is becoming more and more like American youth. Conformity is huge among US youth too... we just have more categories of images to conform to. The preps, goths, jocks, grungers, stoners, skaters, gangstas, etc. It's all riddled with conformity.

Regarding the "women becoming more butch, men becoming more femme" with regard to youth... that's a trend very much in American movies, if you haven't noticed. Look at Leonardo DiCaprio, the Backstreet Boys, all the male "icons" of the young generation-- are any of them big strong tough manly men? For the most part, no. And the increasing demand on female roles is that they be more dominant, pushy, mouthy, etc. Any trend in American movies either works hand in hand with, or creates, trends in American social life. I love when American companies make a movie about the past, a woman in the 1800's or something, being totally independent and unique and mouthing off to men.... utterly unrealistic. I'm all for female equality but c'mon... women in moves in 20 years have gone from delicate flowers crying in the corner to testosterone pumped Rambos. A bit of overcompensation there, methinks.

One thing I hear regularly from the older Japanese generations (and not OLD, but like 30's and up) is that they do not have any manners. And though perhaps everyone thinks this about younger generations, there's some "proof" for it in the Japanese context. A lot of politeness is tone and inflection and attitude in American culture. In Japanese culture, it's tied in with what words you use. In other words, saying "thank you" to an equal is not the same way you should say "thank you" to an elder, or a teacher, or a boss. There is a form, called honorific form, which is often used for teachers and in business towards executives, and also should be used for elderly people. It is an old fashioned form, you even hear it a bit in samurai movies. We learned it in my Japanese classes, but two of my friends who have friends from Japan said that when they talked to them about honorific form, their Japanese friends did not even KNOW the forms. And like I said, it's not because the form isn't used anymore, but it is only used when one must be quite polite, as when say, talking to someone else's grandmother. My friend Beilin, a Japanese pen pal, says that Japan's youth today is very hazukashii.. shameful.

As to rebellion, the extreme social pressures in Japan only make it natural. Americans probably cannot grasp the pressures put on kids which are so extreme that after report cards and college letters come in, there's a name for that time of year because so many students leap off buildings and commit suicide. If you have a good head on your shoulders, no matter what anyone says, you can halfass your way through life in America and still come out pretty well. In Japan there is no margin of error.



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

Koga No Goshi
07-21-2001, 03:27
Kirwin,

I know what you mean about gyoza!!!! And don't you hate it in restaurants here how they'll just have those generic boxed frozen kind with the gummy plastic tasting outsides? I crave the REAL kind. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif



------------------
Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

Hawkeye
07-21-2001, 06:34
James!!! LOL I went to this gyoza place regularly, ie at least once a week.. There gyozas in my opinion are the best, made right before my eyes! Sushi and sashimi cravings will hit me hard too... and as for reverse culture shock? Well, I will gaman http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif P.S. I already hate donut shops!

I think one of the reasons the kids in my school rebel is partly do to the way teacher's treat them. In Japan it is memorization that gets the kids through to the next grade (and I was surprised to learn that it takes a lot of dedication for a kid to actually fail at my school). There is so much pressure in Japan and many teachers upon hearing of my trips to various other countries would say 'I enby (envy) you!'. So basically the teachers pressure students to memorize everything, just listen, make no comments during class. In my opinion the teachers have absolutely no respect for the kids. The well liked teachers do, but most don't. This makes things very difficult for kids. Teachers make no attempt to understand and their tried and true response to the more serious problems is suspension or expelling! It is no wonder kids are rebelling. Of course I think the whole education system is failing... Juku's in my opinion prove the system is failing. I mean if kids have to go for an extra two hours of lessons every night at a cram school... what the hell is wrong with public school!!!

You know I was thinking of this rebellion business, and youth are not the only ones doing it. Women in the age group of 21 to 35 are rebelling as well. Many are not married and are working. Traditional women would be married by 25, leave their jobs, and bare children effectively becoming housewives. These women don't want to give up their lives, because men are more traditional in general and would expect the women to become housewives. Even the government sees this as a reason for the decline in the birthrate. Interesting!

Japan, a country of extremes.

Hawkeye
07-21-2001, 06:42
James:

I think that bullying does not stop at the junior high school age. I see it in my teacher's room as well. It is disgusting how the teachers can overlook bullying done amongst their students, yet complain about it happening in the teachers room! There was only one teacher that I know that activily tried to fight against bullying... ie he laid charges against another teacher for doing it...

But the apathy in the school meetings is immense! No one says anything for fear of sticking their necks out and being different. When I emphatically stated that I did not like the idea that I would have to use nenkyu for days when the students and other teachers would not be at work, my Kocho was going to call around to other kochos to see what they did.. He did not want to stick HIS neck out, lest he be labeled as different and unconforming. I eventually won my argument, but with one stipulation.. that I not tell other gaijin... oopsy! sorry kocho...

Japan, a country of extremes.

Tachikaze
07-21-2001, 08:16
Aaaa, this thread grew too fast! I can't respond to everything! But it's the best thread currently running (I have to avoid the political threads in Off-Topic).

Bullying
I've had little contact with bullying in Japan, other than reading about it. But teasing and hurtful remarks continue into adulthood. I had a fianceé in Sapporo. Even though she was attractive enough to win a beauty contest in high school, her coworkers managed to find every little thing about her to make fun of (size of her breasts, length of her legs). I couldn't imagine that happening at my company here.

Gyoza
I miss the staple Japanese foods that are less-common in American Japanese restaurants, like curry rice, shôyu ramen (with take no ko), Japanese-style spaghetti, and those little pickled radishes of all colors. I particularly miss the heatable convenience store foods, not because I preferred them over restaurant foods, but because I lived on them and got used to them.

Gender-Bending
Actually this has held a fascination for Japanese for a long time. I think it mostly hid in the background until recently. I have mistaken Japanese males and females a few times.

Japanese Nationalism
I agree with what James said about nationalism. We don't want all that crud that happened before WWII.

Women 25-35
Most of my close Japanese friends fit this category. Most of them are so afraid of marrying a Japanese man and Japanese married life, that they would rather stay single their whole lives. Some have come to the US, and don't want to return home. However, one is happily married in Japan to a pretty nice guy, and another has a great koibito.

Bad Girl Ignored/Good Girl Demonized
Sad isn't it? I haven't thought of it quite that way, but it seems true.

Conformity Rebellion
I get a kick out of the people that work at a certain gelato place here in town. They are trying to be so "anti-establishment" and they wear their little nihilist uniforms (pale face, black clothes, black-dyed hair, dark lipstick/eyeliner). I thought the '66-'67 US/British hippy stuff was cool (I was 10 years too late for it). It started out honest, with people wearing a huge variety of colorful, exotic clothing, but even that got trendy and predictable.

By the way, please keep using those Japanese terms, everybody; I gotta keep up my vocabulary.

[This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 07-21-2001).]

jskirwin@yahoo.com
07-21-2001, 10:14
Gentlemen
It's nice to talk about things Japanese. Being a creature of the American suburbs for the past 4 years, I have had much time to contemplate what I learned in Japan since no one here can relate to my experience ("You lived in Japan? That's interesting...")

What's interesting about contemporary Japan is this sense of disconnection the younger Japanese have. Maybe it's the bad economy (the usual excuse trotted out by the handwringers on NHK), but I think it runs deeper than this.

The Japanese are still searching for their identity - their place in the world. In a sense, it all goes back to the Black Ships. First they thought they were Europeans, then they thought they were children of the Emperor and the Sun God, then they were too busy bearing the unbearable to think about much, finally they thought they were Americans without unions, affirmative action and crime.

Now the Bubble Economy has swept away that delusion. No wonder the youth are lazy "freetas" dying their hair purple, gender-bending and making Marilyn Manson look as normal as Tom Brokaw. They are drifting without a sense of identity.

Will the Right Wing capture them? That's what happened a century ago, but so far I haven't heard of an upsurge in recruitment for the various "uyoku".

As Ozawa Ichiro once said, Japan needs to be a normal country. It needs to develop a moderately open economy, a progressive government, and a sensible level of pride in its history and culture. Is it possible?

JK

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The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

[This message has been edited by jskirwin@yahoo.com (edited 07-21-2001).]

Tachikaze
07-21-2001, 13:12
Nice gyoza/Buddha signature, JK.

I think two countries in the whole world have a big void where tradition once supplied the means for culture and social harmony: the US and Japan. It seems that Europe has done a better job retaining enough of their traditional life and culture, that they have less of an identity crisis. China seems to be headed the way of the US and Japan.

Our futures will perhaps parallel each other. So, the question you pose, JK, probably applies to both nations equally (even considering the US is not in an economic crisis -- I'm thinking in the long term).

I think the US is further down this path than Japan, and has had to deal with social issues tied to this phenomenon (feminism, civil rights, unions, drugs, youth violence, etc.) sooner than her Western Pacific counterpart. Perhaps Japan's best chance is to study the development of the US. Avoid policies that went wrong, and copy anything that went right.

They are a remarkably resilient and resourceful people. They'll find a way.

But, yes, they will go rightwing first.

Hawkeye
07-21-2001, 17:24
Re: going right

I am not sure that japan will lurch to the far right. While the conservatives still place a high degree on going to the WWII shrine and Koizumi will go there, the youth do not care about politics.

When I asked my students if they would vote when they turn twenty they said no... the reason.. there is no change. A lot of the youth today, most likely because of the pressures of life in japan, have chosen to not work hard, get "junk jobs" and play all day.

This attitude is the same for most of the population. With the advent of Mr. Koizumi sori daijin... mr. bigperson support for the government is at an all time high... and Koizumi is perhaps more of a moderate.. and certainly a reform minded politician.

The conservatives in japan, however, have always remained in power! The left/socialists were delt a severe blow when the Emperor was reincarnated as a peace loving man! Since he did not have to answer for war crimes the conservative establishment was able to remain in power more or less..

Japan, a country of extremes.

Zen Blade
07-21-2001, 21:23
Also,

a leading leftist was assassinated during... maybe the 60's??? I don't know japanese political history of post-WWII that well. But, I know there was a notable assassination.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

jskirwin@yahoo.com
07-23-2001, 22:25
I don't want to wear out my welcome on this thread, but it's too interesting to keep quiet.

Tachikaze
You're definitely on to something: Japan and America are much more alike than not on a very fundamental level. And yes, I would argue that any threat to the status quo in America would likely come from the Right - as it would in Japan.

Hawkeye
The "Freeta" lifestyle works as long as daddy has a job and mommy controls the purse strings. What should sober them up is what could happen if daddy DOESN'T have a job. If America falls into a recession - which seems very likely - Japan is toast.



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The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

Choco
07-24-2001, 01:43
Your comments about what you saw in Japan are right.

What we are observing are not causes, they are just the consequences of a process of deep change.

Japan is in the middle of a long, slow, and taxing process of changing as a nation.

That change is observed in every level: Social, political, economic, cultural, etc.

The time of the Sarariman, the perpetual job, the paternalistic firm and the relaxed and full of chivalrious commercial ties is over.

Same in the cultural, moral, social field. How many Japanese ppl still believe in the emperor's divinity? How many are still eager to kill themselves studying or working? How many still believe in a peaceful foreign policy? How many will still give back a founf wallet?

Nobody knows how long this change will take, or what will be the outcome.

So let's just sit and wait http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Choco (edited 07-23-2001).]

Tachikaze
07-24-2001, 04:19
Japan and the US are a great pair. On one hand, they are as opposite as can be, especially in terms of group cooperation vs. individualism. On the other hand, they share some charactistics that no other nations share, especially in the "modern world" elements like middle class lifestyle, commercialism, and corporate environments, which gives the two a common understanding.

I've been around many people from all over the world. But there always seems to be a hint of familiarity between me and the Japanese, an unspoken understanding of logic, pragmatism, the importance of eductation, hobbies, levels of cleanliness and organization, and a general agreement on what activities we enjoy.

Those similarities, contrasted with the huge differences in histories and traditional culture, makes for easy relationships and very interesting conversations. We can discuss the differences from a common ground.

Japan & the US, two countries of extremes.

[This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 07-23-2001).]

Choco
07-25-2001, 02:22
OK ... perhaps this is going to start a controversy ... but I have a question:

That "hint of familiarity between American and Japanese ppl", "an unspoken understanding" and "general agreement" ... those "similarities, differences from a common ground."

... All that stuff could be explained because USA defeated Japan in WWII? Could it be because in some concious or unconcious way, deep in the collective psyche (American or Japanese), there is the idea of considering the relations between Japan and US like a Master-Servant, Conqueror-Conquered, Winner-Loser thing?

I mean, no offense intended here to Japanese ppl, but my question hints to the idea that behind all that "hint of familiarity and understanding" there is more than just a plain friendly attitude.

Could it be that this "understanding" attitude is based in part in fear and a self-assumed subordination? In the defeated's gracious and unspoken acceptation of the Winner's supremacy?

Something like: "OK Japan was defeated by US, therefore US is the strongest nation, therefore we MUST now assume our place as subordinated and behave like such: We will adopt the winner's ideas and ways, we won't confront or upset him, we will ne conscious that in every deal or relation he has the upper hand and the last word".

Anyway, I need to elaborate more on this. But reading the previous post I just got this idea http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Koga No Goshi
07-25-2001, 03:35
Choco,

If you make any Japanese friends, you'd be surprised how few of them know anything about World War II or think about it very often. When American troublemakers come in my Japan chat rooms and start saying stuff like "we whupped you guys in ww2!" the younger Japanese seem to totally shrug it off.



------------------
Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.