Anime vs Disney

[lei]

we all know how disney's the biggest animation studio in the west, but it seems everything they churn out goes by the exact same fairytale plot and stereotypes (with the small exception of Lion King, hehe that was quality). The problem is, cartoons have been completely stereotyped by us westerners too. every cartoon i see on tv nowadays is either slapstic type looney tunes or cutesy little rabbits ala disney. i'm ashamed of the western world. the nearest to a vaguely older audience any western cartoon gets is "batman", which started life as a camp tv show with men in tights and comical (in both uses of the term) fight scenes.

then we have Japan. enter: anime. i can't get enough of it! every animation is slick and stylish, more detailed than a 1/12 scale model kit and actually entertaining. i don't care what people think, anime is better than any soap opera or sci-fi series. sure, westeners have gained access to the anime world too, but what did we get? viscious battling monsters? no, pokemon. cutesy little animals living in a fairytale world. AARGH. then digimon too- why can't western animation companies pick up just how good "real" anime is and stop churning this rubbish onto my damn screen.

i've been lei, thank you and good night.

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TIGER LILY!!!
check it out for yourself at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.surman/frames.html

[Takeda Shingen]

I also love Japanese Anime for a good part of my life i've seen a fair amount of what i call the classic Anime of Japan.For example i enjoyed the Giant Robot shows like Mazinger Z,Grandizer and Getta Robo G.There's Captain Harlock,Kimba(that's where Disney got the idea for the Lion King),Astroboy,Marine Boy and many others.But my all time great Anime program from Japan has got to be Space Cruiser Yamato/StarBlazers over here.You're right most of the animated stuff we get on tv now is really crap so i stopped watching those shows except a few that are older.

Michael

[lei]

too right, it's like instead of making animated classics, they make us settle for poorly animated, drawn, and even scripted cartoons. anyone seen that sabrina the teenage witch cartoon? save yourselves, it only works with melissa joan hart in the real thing (rolls tongue back in) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

all the recent mockeries make no attempt to break boundaries or capture imaginations, they just... well the best word i can find is "suck". who are the producers, why are they getting paid and why do they turn out half-wit rubbish that would be more interesting if it was actually filmed instead of animated, using a dry crackerbread as the main character, complete with a voice-over by a snail. i think i'm on to something, best get a job before someone nicks my idea...

[candidgamera]

lei:
agreed, recently tried to watch Mulan, and just couldn't watch much more than about 1/2 hour - Thing is these Disneys keep picking up to many song Oscars.

Am intrigued with the possibilities implied seeing trailers the coming "Final Fantasy" movie as well, no so much its story, but the animation capabilities implied and where that could go.

[lei]

good call candid, i've also had a peek at that final fantasy movie after seeing it advertised somewhere- probably the ccover for one of the games
all in all, looks like it may be worth waiting for, if they ever release it to us british that is, we only just got gundam for crying out loud (wasn't that started in the 70's?)

[BlackWatch McKenna]

"back when i was a kid...."

I was raised on Speed Racer. That was all we had back then. Still, even as young as five years old I would only watch Speed or Kimba and never even glance at scooby doo.

Dont make me sing the theme song.

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// Black
// "Did we win?"

[ShaiHulud]

The Japanese aren't trying to force their anime 'camel' thru a politically correct 'needle'. Once upon a time Superman fought for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Seems that is no longer suitable.

American-made stuff now must be 'non-violent' (bad guys never die), 'diverse' (obligatory race inclusions, whatever the story line), 'relevant' (saving the environment, fighting dirty capitalists,etc) and generally supportive of feminist dogma (ever see the good guys being dressed down for their insensitivity?).

Every cartoon has to be reviewed (honest!) and gets kicked back when it doesn't meet the approval of these specially created 'acceptability' groups.

Sophisticated anime has more adult themes, which is why it isn't made in America.... wouldn't pass the PC screeners.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[This message has been edited by ShaiHulud (edited 04-28-2001).]

[FwSeal]

Mind you, a certain degree of politcal correctness isn't always a bad thing - some of those older Warner Brothers cartoons were racist as hell. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif (or http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
I don't watch much anime these days, but I used to own quite a bit. I really enjoyed 'Area 88', 'The Venus Wars', 'Akira', and the Golgo 13's.
There used to be a fair amount of anime on American television (say between 79-84), such as 'G Force', 'Voltron', and, of course, 'Speed Racer'. I loved that stuff when I was a kid - in particular G Force (I think it has another name its now known as).

[Choco]

I think we are missing the esential point: The differences between japanese and American animation basically come from a simple cultural point of view on the target population.

In America, animation is BASICALLY for kids
In Japan, animation can be for everybody.

The fact that Anime rules in comparison with American cartoons is derived of that narrow and simplistic view.

Disney is the classic western "Animation is just for kids" company. Sure they can produce once a while a decent film and once a while appeal to the older market in a MARGINAL way, but their main target are children.

That is not necessarily bad, but unfortunately since it is assumed animation is "just for kids" that means that many creative possibilites and resources are forbidden or disabled (and I am not referring just to the use of sex or violence in animation).

In Japan in comparison animation is considered for everybody. Sure there are tons of companies and stuff "just for kids" (Pokemon somebody?), but there is a wider and more flexible conception of what is the market for anime. Therefore more creative liberty and therefore better quality and variety of products.

In Japanese anime you see products "just for kids", But you also see a lot of products "for kids and grow ups" and of course products just "for Adults" (and not necesarilly pornography).

From the American's poin of view "Adult Animation" has to be XXX products, which is quite simplistic and narrowminded.

That is the reason that Disney keeps doing feel good movies for kids which are certainly OK if you are a kid or if you have kids and want to get some quality time some weekend watching some "inofensive" movie.

Since Disney insist on assuming Animation is "just for kids" then you will never see Disney producing things like "Akira", "Battle Angel", "Princess Mononoke", "Nausicaa", "Ghost in the Shell" or "Perfect Blue".

Personally I liked Disney movies a lot when I was 10 years old. Now I can't stand them. Simply too silly and predictable. Even Japanese stuff for kids like Pokemon, SailorMoon or Dragonball are very superior to any Disney serie.

A good example: Disney's "Lion King" is a very inferior clone of "Kimba the White lion" a popular japanese serie from the 70's. The Disney versio is obviously more advanced in technical terms (after all it was made 20 years later), but when it comes to story, argument, narrative, creativity, etc the Japanese original kick the clone's butt big time http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Zen Blade]

JUST FOR THE RECORD,

Everyone should see Cowboy Bebop.

Great Anime, comes on 6 CD's.
or was it 5? I forget, but I have them all.
Very excellent anime.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[solypsist]

The deal with lots of Anime is it's just as bad as some of thos eearly WW2 era Looney-tunes, but in a more serious way. I'm talking total misogynistic stuff on flicks like "Legend of the Overfiend".

[candidgamera]

Choco:

Thanks: trying to remember name for "Ghost in the Shell" liked it.

[Takeda Shingen]

FwSeal the name you can't think of is Battle of the Planets.In Japan it's called Gatchaman and as all Japanese anime that is shown over here they cut out most of the violence and other things.It's best to get the Japanese versions of the shows that way you get the whole episode intact.

Michael

[lei]

true, i use file share servers to d/l japanese anime because even if the suubtitles are slighty difficult to understand, the whole animation makes for much better viewing than the americanised versions. and also true: of the two anime cartoons actually available over here, dragonball z totally whips every other cartoon at the moment, despite it's target audience being lower than what could have been acceptable with it's original content (saban made sure to take out any gory violence, but most of the fight scenes remain intact)

[agios_katastrof]

Well, Disney now owns Miyazaki's stuff. Disney isn't stupid, and they know quality when they see it. Princess Mononoke is widely released in the US through Disney. Funny thing, Miyazaki passed away, shortly after Disney signed him on.

But if you look at some of the more recent Disney films (Fantasia 2000 comes to mind at the moment), you will note very distinctive anime (esp Miyazaki) influences.

[Choco]

True. But even then you can see how is Disney's logic when it comes to animation.

when making the deal on Princess Mononoke, Disney got into a legal tug of war with the creator because Disney wanted full powers to edit and modify the original Japanese stuff in order to make it "family friendly". Of course the creator refused. I assume that since Disney at the end got away with the deal that means they reached some legal agreement.

No idea if Disney's Princess Mononoke is the same as the original or a modified one.

At the end the point is: Disney is an animation company targeting BASICALLY kids (which is perfectly valid). As long as they consider that anime is just for kids they won't be able to develop and explore the full possibilites of animation.

[War Writer]

Disney is probably the best for animation skills, although, Manga is much better in the stuff they bring out. But the main point is that Manga's stuff is based more at an adult content like 'Ghost in the Shell' and 'Akira'.
But, Disney are much better in the way in which they film their stuff!

[Dwimmerlaik]

Eh what? Disney does better at animation than the Japanese?

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/ff4summon/indra.gif

[War Writer]

In there old stuff that is; the way in which it was filmed; for example the zoom in scenes used in films made in the late 30's and early 40's were revolunry; the reason for this made Disney an oscar winner nearl over twelve times each year for it.

[Dwimmerlaik]

Okay that I can accept, after all Osamu Tezuka himself confessed he had been influenced by Disney animation...however I would argue that Disney's heyday in the animation field are long since gone...

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/ff4summon/indra.gif

[agios_katastrof]

There are actually things that modern Disney (and Dreamworks) does very well, far better than the best of the Japanese anime studios.

One thing is computer modeling. Mulan is a great example of this. Those leaves moving in the wind in Mulan, were mathematically modeled using true physics. And that awesome scene where the Huns horde descend down the mountain, each of those horsemen were AI controlled. And I think I don't have to go into Dreamworks' productions.

Another is charaterization of actors. Look at the facial expressions, and the mannerisms of the characters depicted in the current release, Shrek. You can make out the Eddie Murphy, Cameron Diaz and Mike Myers. Japanese anime is especially weak in this area, whose characters deviate little.

But the strength in Japanese animation (imho), is their story telling, and the depth of their plots. There is no way on earth that American animation studios will ever come even close to writing something like Evangelion.


In some distant future, perhaps an animation studio will come existence, combining the best elements of East and West. But for now, we have to settle for the polarity.

[Dwimmerlaik]

Pooohhh...better at computer modeling? Ever see a movie called Ghost in the Shell? 'Nuff said.

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/ff4summon/indra.gif

[Zen Blade]

I somewhat disagree with you agios.

modeling facial expressions after actors does not a good animation make. It actually shows a weakness if you ask me.

That being said, I think the reason the Amercian animations use computers more is due to a cultural difference. Computers are a big buzz word here in the US. That being said, there are several animes that use comptures well (Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop). However, I admit they are limited.

Another thing that makes anime better...

voice acting. not very many good or even decent voice actors in the US. And the only "decent" ones tend to be in pure slapstick comedy which isn't really acting for someone who is a comedian.

I agree with you on the stories. Japanese stories/plots are much better.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[War Writer]

I don't really agree with some of the ideas in which some people have said; it hasn't been all computer generated stuff; and it's important to note that Anime/Manga (which is the same) is based for adult viewiers really; while Disney (most of them) are based for children, but they are fun to watch at times, maybe not the stuff like (The Emperour's New Groove) but maybe the Toy Story ones.

[War Writer]

But; I do just like to point out that 'Ghost in the Shell' and 'Akira' are masterpieces.

[agios_katastrof]

Akira is indeed a masterpiece. But I dunno, I found Ghost in the Shell rather weak.

Nausicaa is yet another masterpiece, imho, and far better than Mononoke. The manga saga is even better.

But true, although I still stand behind the capabilities of Disney/Dreamworks, I cannot state any of their works as a "masterpiece".

[War Writer]

They are fun to watch thou.

[Tachikaze]

First of all, there is a wider range of quality among anime than Disney. So, you could point out anime that is very technically well-done, but there are others where the movement is stiff, facial expressions are simplistic, and shortcuts are obvious.

Disney is more consistent because it is all from one studio, although there are quality differences between the theater releases and home video.

The main reason, in my opinion, that there are big differences between the storylines of anime and Western cartoons is that Japanese anime is for children and adults; Western animation is for selling commercial time.

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The best thing about TV is, you can turn it off!

[Choco]

I agree with Tachikaze.

DIsney can sometimes produce very good things. Problem is that its field is VERY narrow and limited ("animation is just for kids")

Have you ever seen Gunm or "Battle Angel"? The animation is outstanding, but the story is really deep and cool. You will never see Disney doing something like that.

All you will get from Disney is:
"Hey ho, Hey ho!! Let's go to the mine to work!! ...etc, etc".

[hecose]

I was a bit shocked when I saw the post saying that Miyazaki Hayao died soon after Disney bought the rights to his movies. I think that is a mistake. It was actually one of his colleagues, TOKUMA Yasuyoshi, who died. Miyazaki is still alive and kicking and making his latest movie "Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi", to be released in Japan this summer.

I'm a big fan of Miyazaki. I recommend this website www.nausicaa.net (http://www.nausicaa.net) to anyone interested to find out more about him and his works. My favourites are "Princess Mononoke", "Porco Rosso / Crimson Pig", "My Neighbour Totoro", "Nausicaa of the Valley of Winds" (the comic, not the movie). (heck.. that's like half of his movies... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )

[agios_katastrof]

hecose, really?

I've heard that he did? Well, I'm glad to be wrong in this situation. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I think I've seen all of his works. My favorites are Nausicaa (I've enjoyed the manga and film), and Laputa.

[hecose]

Yes, I am quite sure the earlier declaration of Miyazaki's death was a mistake. Well, I've seen an article at www.nausicaa.net (http://www.nausicaa.net) about the death of his colleague, but there's no mention of his own death there. I'm sure it would have been mentioned at that site. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I also enjoyed "Laputa" a lot when I was younger. I still like it now (that I'm older), but not as much as the other four I mentioned in the previous post. But the "Laputa" theme song is my favourite among all the songs from Miyazaki's movies.

I watched the "Nausicaa" movie after I've read the comics, and I was actually quite disappointed because 1. the dub was not done well (in my opinion). It was a Cantonese dub. 2. The story was much simpler than the comic. The movie was made when the comic was only up to book 2 (of 7). So I really love the comic, but actually dislike the movie.

I think most of Miyazaki's movies are suitable for kids, e.g. "Laputa", "Kiki's Delivery Service", "Totoro". I find they have more depth than the usual Disney movies, and also in most cases, more imaginative - those strange creatures in "Totoro" and those airships in "Laputa".

Many of his movies talk about the conflict between human civilisation and Mother Nature, e.g. "Nausicaa" and "Princess Mononoke". Disney movies seldom have any serious themes or messages.

Actually, Miyazaki himself doesn't like to be called "The Walt Disney of Japan". http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I can see why.

[Orion12]

I have only recently been a hardcore fan of anime, only discovering it by fluke five or so years ago when I was priveleged enough to see Fist of the North Star and by todays standards the movie is not really anything special, it completely blew me away and hooked me on anime for good. I had since started a small collection, I say small because anime is so damn expensive here in Canada and hard to come by unless you live near a comic retailer (which I don't). I had to order most of mine from the states.
Unfortunately as mentioned before many people do have a narrowmind to anime and I was often critisized for being obsessed with cartoon porn which still ticks me off when I hear people refer to it as that. That is not anime or manga, that is Hentai and I have no particular affinity for Hentai at all.
Anyway one movie that I feel I should mention in this discussions list of anime and manga classics would have to be the film "The Wings of Honneamise". I must admit I accidentally bought this movie and the first time I watched it I hated it because it had no flying samurai fighting hordes of ninja's and it didn't have any sci fi techno play going on. But then I watched the movie again and saw it for what it was, a philosophical film of deep impact that far surpasses anything Disney has ever put out. Now this film is one of my all time favorite movies, especially since I can relate to the main character so much. If you haven't seen The Wings of Honneamise I would highly recommend it although it is very long and definately not an action movie.

[DarkSword]

Tenchi Muyo!!!!!
This is one funny anime if you never have a chance to watch it you guys are misisng out....histerical!....I think ryoko is my future ex-wife...ehehehehhe... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Koga No Goshi]

Despite being massacred in the box office, I actually really loved Titan AE. I know it wasn't anime, but it was really good. I didn't even really feel that it was a "kids" movie, yet that's all who went to see it. I knew a lot of people around my age (early 20's) who said they wanted to see it but "it's a cartoon, it's a kids' movie." And so they didn't go. And so it got slaughtered. Something about earth being blown up and the characters actually bleeding and being partially naked in the movie struck me as not really being designed for 11 year olds. Maybe the reason the only anime really brought to mainstream in the US is the cutesy Disney type is because producers and TV stations have a lot of experience with trying out more adult-themed animation and having it all flop. Also, "real Japanese anime" has too many adult overtures for kids, and the US is still very definitely in a "all animation is kiddy stuff" mentality.



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Goshi of Koga

[Koga No Goshi]

I am also worried about how Final Fantasy will do for the same reason. It looks beautiful and outstanding, the animation looks like it blows anything previous (Toy Story included) out of the water, but I'm afraid only FF fans will go to see it, and little kids, and young adults who think it looks cool wont' go see it because "It's a cartoon." The reason I was pissed about titan AE flopping and am worried about FF doing the same is because I think both used better than average effects and are high quality, yet because of how they do in the box office no producers TV or movie will want to touch animation like that in the future.

It's all about the money. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif



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Goshi of Koga

[Orion12]

Quote Originally posted by Koga No Goshi:
I am also worried about how Final Fantasy will do for the same reason. It looks beautiful and outstanding, the animation looks like it blows anything previous (Toy Story included) out of the water, but I'm afraid only FF fans will go to see it, and little kids, and young adults who think it looks cool wont' go see it because "It's a cartoon." The reason I was pissed about titan AE flopping and am worried about FF doing the same is because I think both used better than average effects and are high quality, yet because of how they do in the box office no producers TV or movie will want to touch animation like that in the future.

It's all about the money. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif


[/QUOTE]

I'm inclined to agree. Sqauresoft of Honolulu and the body whole of Square itself has invested so much time and energy into this film as well as for the first time ever tipping their financial scales into the red literally developing this new type of "Emotion" technology for the first Final Fantasy movie.
I honestly don't see Square making back all the money they have spent on this movie and I think that the movie will soon hit the VHS/DVD line to cash in on some extra money when it doesn't blow the box office away. I think it will do fairly well but most attention will be paid to how it looks while storyline and plot and such will be bashed by critics who bash every single movie that comes to the theatres now.

[Koga No Goshi]

The only movies critics seem to approve of are dreadfully dull and boring movies about Gwynneth Paltrow or some other twit fopping around England sipping tea and talking in a fake accent about love or some crap. Horribly boring. Just like the only books that are considered by "educated" people to have any quality are dusty old put-you-to-sleep 19th cent. romance type stories.



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Goshi of Koga

[Doragon_Ajidrik]

One Anime I enjoyed was Ninja Scroll.Body parts flying everywhere.

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RUN, to live to run another day!

Honor to Clan Doragon
www.doragon.cjb.net (http://www.doragon.cjb.net)

[Orion12]

Quote Originally posted by agios_katastrof:
There are actually things that modern Disney (and Dreamworks) does very well, far better than the best of the Japanese anime studios.

One thing is computer modeling. Mulan is a great example of this. Those leaves moving in the wind in Mulan, were mathematically modeled using true physics. And that awesome scene where the Huns horde descend down the mountain, each of those horsemen were AI controlled. And I think I don't have to go into Dreamworks' productions.

Another is charaterization of actors. Look at the facial expressions, and the mannerisms of the characters depicted in the current release, Shrek. You can make out the Eddie Murphy, Cameron Diaz and Mike Myers. Japanese anime is especially weak in this area, whose characters deviate little.

But the strength in Japanese animation (imho), is their story telling, and the depth of their plots. There is no way on earth that American animation studios will ever come even close to writing something like Evangelion.


In some distant future, perhaps an animation studio will come existence, combining the best elements of East and West. But for now, we have to settle for the polarity.[/QUOTE]

Far better than Japanese anime studios?

I truly believe that the Japanese anime studios have a much more broad approach to animation but because there are so many diversified studios, garnering multimillion dollar budgets for their movies is usually quite impossible, unlike Disney who can afford to crap out millions on any piece of "family drivel" they can piece together.

You give these Japanese anime studios a Disney budget and we'll see who comes out on top as far as content and quality. I don't want my animation to be filled with singing mermaids and smart talking animals. Understandable Disney is marketing to kids but to say Dreamworks and Disney have outdone the Japanese in terms of visual achievment is ludicrous.

If these Japanese studios unified into a conglomerate corporation where a single mass budget could be put forth to producing feature films as Disney has done there would be no comparison.
Aside from that argument I have not seen any Disney movies that have shown the painstaking detail and effort put into some of todays Anime/Manga. No matter what your opinions of Akira or Ghost in the Shell, you could watch both movies and then watch any two Disney movies to compare their design and artwork. There is so much detail put into feature anime films that it borderlines redundant, however as a viewer I can honestly say that because of this detail I can place myself into this world presented to me realistically. I have never watched a Disney movie where I could see myself interacting with the environment.

If Disney was a company that solely produced movies (no Disney Land, no other royalty garnering endorsement) and was to go head to head with the Japanese animation industry it is clear who the winner would be.

In todays US market within the last 5 years Disney has lowered its standards of quality in story writing and animation. There was a time when every Disney film released headed for the theatres. Now Disney is pumping out movies that are going straight to video in bulk.

I will admit I watched MuLan (fast forwarded the singing parts) because it dealt with Mongols and such. Now can you imagine the same movie if it has come from a Japanese Studio, even with a lower budget?????? I guaruntee it would be the next Princess Mononoke and the tame battle scenes Disney produced would have been spectacular clashes of military might.

Granted Disney solely markets to children but you have to remember Grown Ups are people too, and there are just as many adults into animation as children. Mainly because we come from a Generation that had the privelege to grow up with an evolving animation industry and for most of us the fascination and story telling incorporated with animation has stuck.

Also Japanese animation is directed to a dual audience. Japanese and American viewers. Artists cannot take the liberty to animate every facial contortion as you pointed out in Shrek, simply because the speaking is done in both English and Japanese. If Shrek came out in Japan dubbed in Japanese don't you think the facial expressions and such would appear to be weird not matching the dialogue?
Generic facial expressions in anime and manga are a way of keeping the film directed at both English and Japanese speaking audiences as many people only watch Japanese anime dubbed in English and fortunately Japanese artists take into consideration their Western fanbase.

[DarkSword]

here is a list of must see anime. no particular other m8

Tenchi muyo(comedy)
gundam wing
love hina(comedy)
cowboy bebop
battle angel alita
akira
ghost in the shell
appleseed
neongenesis evangelion(weird)
and there are more great ones that I want to see...
some of the best laugh i got is from anime...try you might get hook...ehehhehe

[Choco]

All I can say is .... Last night I watched "Grave of the fireflies".

GREAT anime movie.

Disney better than Japanese anime? Yeah, sure.

If you want to take your 5yrs old to see a 50MM movie full of flying mermaids and talking donkeys dancing and singing, then yep, Disney is number one.

But when it comes to do something with a little substance ... then Disney is out of its league.

[Toranaga sama]

I'm a fan of Devil Hunter Yohko, Sword of Escaflowne, and Perfect Blue. Perfect Blue was hardcore psycological, and definitely makes you say "ummm......"

And I have to mention how civil and interesting this debate was to read. I am a part of the Red Alert 2 modding community, and a few of the "noisiest" people there have very little tolerance for alternate opinions, or newbies.

Kudos to everyone

[ingram77331]

A while back i was captivated by ronin warriors and technoman but the other day on the cartoon network i saw ronin warriors for the first time in about 10 years. Now i look at it and see that the animation kinda sucks but what still makes it good animation is the story line and plot.

Same thing with voltron. Voltrons art looks pretty outdated but thats because both of these cartoons are old.

But what amazes me is that i would rather wacth either of these cartoons then some crap like mulan.

You wanna know why? because disney characters love to drive you crazy with thier singing.

[Dark Phoenix]

Well I am currently watching Bubblegum Crisis on a local station in OZ at the moment. WHat do you think of it?

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

I am no hero I just like to hit people in the head. :p

[Takeda Shingen]

Also not to be missed is some if not all of the Space Cruiser Yamato movies there's 5 of them and the animation is pretty good.

Michael

[Hawkeye]

OK, I am probably going to open up a whole can of trouble here. I am not too impressed with anime. There are a few reasons to this. I have a big problem with the style, ie big eyes and mouths. To me, most anime has the same style. Here in japan I see a lot of similiar anime on TV. The characters could be picked up and placed into another cartoon. Even styles that are different have large eyes and mouths. The mouth action is generalized and in my opinion this makes it easier for a cartoon to be sold and redubbed in foriegn languages.

Perhaps I have been in Japan for too long. When my students draw pictures, it is of anime style. Everywhere I look I see it.

This is not to say that I dislike all Japanese animation. Far from it. I think in general (I am using TV cartoons for this comparison) Japanese cartoons have better technical aspects. The frame rate is better, for the most part, and the clours are quite vibrant. The merger between hand drawn parts with computer animation is particularly striking in some Japanese cartoons.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the classic anime style is, to me at least, over done. But then again I live in Japan where it is in every school, convenience store and bathroom... well maybe not bathroom http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Japan, a country of extremes.

[Orion12]

Quote Originally posted by Hawkeye:
OK, I am probably going to open up a whole can of trouble here. I am not too impressed with anime. There are a few reasons to this. I have a big problem with the style, ie big eyes and mouths. To me, most anime has the same style. Here in japan I see a lot of similiar anime on TV. The characters could be picked up and placed into another cartoon. Even styles that are different have large eyes and mouths. The mouth action is generalized and in my opinion this makes it easier for a cartoon to be sold and redubbed in foriegn languages.

Perhaps I have been in Japan for too long. When my students draw pictures, it is of anime style. Everywhere I look I see it.

This is not to say that I dislike all Japanese animation. Far from it. I think in general (I am using TV cartoons for this comparison) Japanese cartoons have better technical aspects. The frame rate is better, for the most part, and the clours are quite vibrant. The merger between hand drawn parts with computer animation is particularly striking in some Japanese cartoons.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the classic anime style is, to me at least, over done. But then again I live in Japan where it is in every school, convenience store and bathroom... well maybe not bathroom http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Japan, a country of extremes.[/QUOTE]

In Japanese animation when facial features are over exagerated (mouth and eyes) this is manga style animation not anime style. I.e. Sailor Moon, Project Ako.
There is a distinct difference between how manga and anime look. Manga is more comedic and plays on exagerating facial expressions. Anime (Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Princess Mononoke) maintains to truer semblance of reality based animation. Most of the time things are in proportion with eachother.

[Choco]

Well there is anime and ANIME. Not all anime is great and certainly if you are in Japan and getting a massive dosis of anime everywhere you must be pretty fed up.

But it is true that there is the "comic" or exagerated anime. The one with lots of big eyes, blue and green hair, small demons flying everywhere, noses bleding, big sweat drops, etc ... in other words the less serious stuff: Project AKO, Dragonball, Pokemon, Sailor Moon, etc.

on the other side we have the serious or realistic stuff: Ghost in the shell, Akira, Grave of the Fireflies, Princess Mononoke. This stuff has a more realistic drawing, with more human-like faces and bodies. And more realistic arguments too.

Both kinds of stuff are good on their own, but they are pretty different. One is "serious" stuff, the other is "light".

If you get a shot in Dragonball, usually nothing happens. If you get a shot in Akira you are usually dead.




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[Zen Blade]

Assuming you (anyone and everyone) are open minded and intelligent... The best anime in a while (in my opinion) is definitely
Cowboy Bebop.

It didn't show all 26 episodes in japan, but it is definitely "A" stuff. Realistic drawings, intelligent stories, some guns and blood, tragedy and comedy, and of course your occasional bouncing clown-like guy who can repel bullets. (just one episode)

If you haven't checked it out yet, please do so. Or, if you want to see a good anime, take a look at it. AND DON'T WATCH THE DUBBED. The dubbed for it is ok, but subtitled is much better than english dubbing.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[Warmaker]

I've been watching anime since I can remember. Remember watching Mazinger Z when I was a kid in the Philippines and G-Force when we moved to the USA. Voltron came around and I was a fan of that. Then my friends and I bumped into Robotech. Simply put, there were no kids playing ouside at our neighborhoods when that show came around. I absolutely loved Robotech/Macross since then and was quite happy with the DVD release of it recently. I just wish I somehow held onto that big Japanese import veritech toy that I had as a kid... man, collectors pay for that stuff...

You won't see much of the more mature anime here in the US, esp. during afterschool hours. The various themes of violence and sex will make sure that most won't show up or will get butchered up to the point of non-recognition. However, some channels will show a few of the more serious stuff on later hours.

I liked Evangelion alot, though you REALLY need to watch the series a few times to even get a good grasp on the subtlties of the show. Even then conspiracy theories abound over Evangelion fansites.

I'll also jump on the Cowboy Bebop bandwagon! Definitely Grade-A stuff here guys! If you haven't checked it out do so! Great action, art, and style (musically, too!). Plus, its got Faye! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!

[Samurai Sam]

ANIME
anime is definitely better than disney and anyone who thinks different (unless your a backstreet boy or a little kid) has got something seriously wrong with them almost everyone i know critisizes me for watching and drawing anime as much as i do but ive got to a feww by showing them my unedited japanese impots such as macross the movies and episodes, ghost in the shell, battle angel alita, angel sanctuary, and so far my favorite yet the most confusing neon genisis evangelion now i know this sounds stupid but i changed one of my friends lives through anime he used to paint landscapes and cheezy stuff like that(sorry if any of you guys like that stuff) now that he has seen princess mononoke he and i are half way through creating our own anime wich is very detailed and has a killer storyline well enough small talk now the diff between abime and disney hmm to many to list but i will list a few eyes, colores, backgrounds, ,m cxvfg;/jhn.lfjmgFVC oh sorry my dog walked on my keyboard and my delete key is broken, where was i, art, storyline, amount of gore, amount of sex everything about anime is much better than disney so in conclusion anime is my god someone post some questions if i cant answer them im sure some one else on this site can they all seem very intelligent and well educated now i will quote the fellow a few posts up
Kudos to all of you and your intelligence as well as good taste

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ANIME FrEaK
Sam of the Samurai