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sharrukin
11-12-2004, 03:58
The question of the nature and the function of each type of troop in Hellenistic armies is complicated by the flexibility of the military vocabulary and the existance of multiple terms to indicate the same body of men. For example; the phalangite/phalangistes were usually indicated, according to official terminology, by the term "macedonians" and unoficially by the term "pezetairoi", "sarisphoroi" or simply "heavy troops". I have arbitrarily chosen the term Phalangite as the most readily descriptive term in english. The meanings of any of these terms change over time. We also have the problem of sources. Greek and Latin authors discussing military matters that they may have limited knowledge in, and translating from a foreign language for an audience unfamiliar with such terms. The need to simplify, entertain and moralize would only rarely allow an accurate translation.

:Courtesy of The Emperor
http://members.tripod.com/~S_van_Dorst/Alexander.html

This is in fact only a partial list.
Agèma (GR): ‘leading part’; elite unit.
Agèma toon hypaspistoon (GR): 'leading part of the shieldbearers'; elite unit of Macedonian royal foot guard
Agrianos (GR): elite light infantryman
Aichmophoros (GR): spearbearer
Akontistès (GR): javelineer.
Argyraspis (GR): ‘silvershield’; title of Macedonian infantry guard which is probably identical with the hypaspistai (GR).
Asthetairos (GR): ‘city companion’; title borne by Macedonian infantryman, possibly an alternative name for the pezhetairoi (GR) from the northern districts of the kingdom
Asthippos (GR): ‘city cavalryman’; title borne by some Macedonian mounted troops.
Basileus (GR): king.
Basilikè ilè (GR): ‘royal wing’; Macedonian royal guard cavalry unit.
Basilikos (GR): royal.
Chalkaspis (GR): bronze shield
Doryphoros (GR): (1) spearman; (2) guard.
Drepanèphoros (GR): scythed chariot
Ekdromos (GR): 'out runner'; hoplite leaving the phalanx (GR) formation to chase light troops
Epibatès (GR): marine.
Euzonos (GR): light infantryman .
Gastraphetès (GR): ‘belly bow’; heavy crossbow/light catapult.
Grosphomachos (GR): skirmisher equipped with javelins.
Gymnès (GR): light-armed skirmisher
Hamippos (GR): infantry skirmisher fighting mixed with the cavalry.
Hetarieia (GR): company; (1) aristocratic warrior band; (2) dining association.
Hetairos (GR): companion; (1) aristocratic warrior; (2) Macedonian heavy cavalryman.
Helepolis (GR): siege tower.
Hippakontistès (GR): mounted javelinman.
Hippeus (GR): ‘horseman’ or ‘knight’: (1) cavalryman; (2) elite infantryman; title of picked Spartan hoplite
Hippikè (GR): cavalry.
Hippikon (GR): cavalry.
Hippotoxotès (GR): horse archer.
Holosidèros (GR): (1) heavily armoured soldier; (2) cataphract horseman.
Hoplitès (GR): heavy armed soldier; hoplite
Hypaspistès (GR): ‘shield-bearer’; (1) Macedonian infantry guard; (2) military servant.
Hypaspistès basilikos (GR): ‘royal shield-bearer’; elite soldier among the Macedonian infantry guard
Ilè basilikè (GR): 'royal squadron'; elite unit of Macedonian hetairoi (GR) cavalry, possibly of larger size than other ilai (GR).
Katapaltès (GR): ‘shield smasher’; artillery piece.
Kataphraktès (GR): suit of armour.
Kataphraktos (GR): armoured soldier
Kataskopos (GR): scout
Katoikia (GR): military colony.
Katoikos (GR): fief holder; military settler; soldier granted land to support himself.
Klèros (GR): fief; tract of land.
Klèrouchos (GR): fief holder; military settler; soldier granted land for his upkeep.
Kontophoros (GR): spearman.
Krypteia (GR): ‘secret service’; Spartan death squad for keeping the helots in check.
Lithobolos (GR): ‘stonethrower’; torsion gun.
Lonchophoros (GR): spearman; javelineer
Machairophoros (GR): swordsman.
Machimos (GR): indigenous Egyptian soldier.
Oxybelès (GR): catapult
Peltastès (GR): shieldbearing javelineer.
Pelekophoros (GR): axe-man.
Pentèkontoros (GR): galley with fifty oarsmen on one level.
Petrobolos (GR): ‘stonethrower’; torsion gun.
Pezhetairos (GR): ‘foot companion’; Macedonian heavy infantryman
Pezikon (GR): infantry.
Pezomachos (GR): infantryman.
Pezon (GR): infantry.
Pezos (GR): foot soldier; infantryman.
Pezakontistès (GR): infantry skirmisher; javelineer.
Phalangitès (GR): phalangite; infantryman in Macedonian-type phalanx (GR).
Pharsalikè ilè (GR): elite Thessalian cavalry unit from Pharsalia.
Prodromos (GR): ‘someone who has run ahead’; (1) scout ; (2) Macedonian light cavalryman.
Promachos (GR): ‘front fighter’; heavy armed soldier fighting ahead of the light armed missile troops.
Psilos (GR): light equipped soldier; skirmisher.
Sarissophoros (GR): ‘pikeman’; (1) soldier armed with a sarissa (GR); (2) alternative title for
Macedonian prodromos (GR).
Soomatophylax (GR): ‘body guard’; (1) elite Macedonian infantry guard; (2) senior Macedonian general.
Soomatophylax basilikos (GR): ‘royal bodyguard’; elite Macedonian infantry guard soldier.
Sphendonetès (GR): slinger.
Toxotès (GR): archer.
Triakontoros (GR): thirty oared war ship.
Trièrès (GR): trireme; oared warship with three levels of rowers.
Xystophoros (GR): spearman.

Basilikon Agema; "These hetairoi were organised in ilai or 'wings' of some 200 men except for the basilikè ilè or agèma, the royal squadron, which had a strength of 300 to 400 cavalrymen"

http://www.pothos.org/alexander.asp?ParaID=78
The cavalry Companions were heavily armored horsemen armed with a thrusting spear and a sword.

There were eight Companion units of 200-300 men each, one of which was the élite unit, the Royal Squadron or agema. Its task was to lead the advance on the battlefield and to protect the king when necessary. When Alexander crossed the Hellespont in 334 BC he took 1,800 Companion cavalry with him. They operated together with Alexander on the right wing during battles. Please note ancient cavalry rode without stirrups or saddles; these were not introduced before the 4th century AD.

[The following is extracted from B. bar Kochva_ The Seleucid Army_
Cambridge
> Classical Studies, NY 1976, esp. pp. 55ff.]

the Royal Guard also had a cavalry component consisting of two units of 1000 each, i.e. the *agema* and the 'royal *ala* of the Companions', discussed at pp. 67-75.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Polybius/30*.html;

"a thousand horsemen from Nisa"

"next a thousand picked horse followed by the so-called "agema", supposed to be the crack cavalry corps, numbering about a thousand"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy37.html

"3000 cavalry, clad in mail armour and known as "cataphracti." These were supported by the "agema," another body of cavalry numbering about 1000; they were a select force, consisting of Medes and men drawn from many tribes in that part of the world"

Iphcratean reforms;

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/Iphikrates1.html

Thureophoroi/Thorakitai; However, the striking thing about the Greek histories recording the second half of the 4th century, an age well documented due to the activities of Alexander and his successors, is the almost complete absence of references to peltasts. Demosthenes for instance refers to Philip having hoplites and mercenaries etc., but not hoplites and peltasts. In all of Arrian and Diodoros' long accounts of Alexander's campaigns, although mercenaries are often mentioned, there is not a single reference to peltasts forming part of his army. One of the last references to peltasts in the 4th century BC comes from Xenophon (Hellenica 6.1.9) referring to akontistai (javelinmen) and peltasts as synonymous. Although the time referred to is 374 BC, the passage was probably written in the 350s (Polyainos also refers to peltasts in the 350s in a passage dealing with the Theban Pammanes). What then had become of the troop type that was so ubiquitous in the earlier part of the century? It has been customary to simply equate mercenaries in Alexander's day with (traditional style) peltasts . However this then just begs the question of why are Alexander's mercenaries never recorded as fighting as skirmishers? Alexander used archers and (non-Greek) javelinmen for this purpose, especially the Agrianians provided by his close friend King Langarus. In the open plains of Asia, javelin-armed skirmishers were ill suited to countering the Persian's most reliable military asset: their cavalry. In contrast, an Iphikratid-style 'peltast' with a long spear would be as effective as any other hoplite in warding off cavalry: the long experience of constant Greek and Persian confrontation had demonstrated the steadfastness of Greek hoplites in the face of mounted troops. As Alexander had ready access to non-Greek skirmishers, he had no need of traditional Greek peltasts. If the term mercenary had by Alexander's day become synonymous with peltast as understood by Xenophon and Thukydides, we would expect to hear of Alexander using his mercenaries in a skirmishing role, even if only on a single occasion. But we don't.Hence we see the faint return of the peltast. Diodoros 19.19.4 has this seemingly stray reference: Antigonos "selected the finest of his peltasts and divided the bowmen, the slingers, and the other psiloi into two parts... ...to occupy the places that were narrow and difficult". The usage of the word peltast here comes as a complete surprise, since Diodoros until this point makes no mention of peltasts in Antigonos' army, and indeed, makes no mention of peltasts in the entire previous two volumes of his history, concerning affairs from Philip's time onwards. This would explain the evident confusion in the late Hellenistic manuals describing Macedonian 'peltasts'. As Aelian puts it (2.8): "The peltasts have similar equipment to the Macedonian, but lighter: For they carry a pelta and light-weight arms, and spears shorter than a sarissa. This manner of arming appears to hold a middle place between that of psiloi and those properly called heavy infantry, being heavier than that of the light-armed and lighter than that of the heavy infantry, and for this reason most authorities place it among the light armed". Evidently some authorities Aelian had consulted considered the peltasts to be not light armed at all, but heavy infantry. A 'peltast' with a pike would indeed be a heavy infantryman, a hoplite; a peltast with a javelin would not - but would still be more heavily equipped than the psiloi. It is perhaps notable that the only times Polybios mentions 'peltasts' in the Seleucid army they are on one occasion described as leading an assault through a breach in a wall (10.31.11), and on the other as being 10000 strong (10.49.1). Elsewhere Polybios tells us that the elite portion of the Seleucid phalanx was 10000 strong and that most of them were called Argyraspids. It seems likely that these men were 'peltasts' in exactly the same manner Antogonid pikemen were 'peltasts' - they could be rearmed for certain missions. This would also neatly explain why the Hellenistic tactical manuals do not talk about how 'peltasts' are marshalled, nor how many there should be in the army (in contrast to the psiloi and phalangites), but make reference only to their equipment. If they were the same men the phalangites, they would never make an appearence in such deployment discussions, since they were already included - as hoplitai (phalangites).

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/Iphikrates2.html

The Egyptian machimoi. Having seen little military service under the first three Ptolemies, many of them fought in Ptolemy IV's war against Antiochus III and distinguished themselves in Ptolemy's victory at Raphia in 217. Thereafter rebelliousness among them was not uncommon; cf. Polybius 5.107. The satrap was also the commander of the military resources of the province, which were substantial. The army consisted of two main elements; the native Egyptian militia, or Machimoi, and foreign units. The Machimoi amounted, according to Herodotus, to 410,000 in the 5th century.

hetairoi; http://members.tripod.com/~S_van_Dorst/Alexander.html#macarmy The most prestigious of the mounted troops were the hetairoi or companions. These hetairoi were organised in ilai or 'wings' of some 200 men except for the basilikè ilè or agèma, the royal squadron, which had a strength of 300 to 400 cavalrymen. In battle these units of Macedonian hetairoi were generally
formed up in a wedge formation.

prodromoi; In addition to the shock troopers of the hetairoi a small number of light cavalrymen designated prodromoi or scouts were part of the native Macedonian cavalry. These horsemen were usually equipped with javelins when employed on reconnaissance missions, but armed with a cavalry version of the sarissa they served as heavy cavalry sarissophoroi in battle. Normally these Macedonians operated closely with the light Paeonian, Illyrian and Thracian cavalry. Confusingly these mounted Thracians were also known as prodromoi

pezhetairoi; Amongst these the most important were the pezhetairoi or foot companions, of which some were also given the mysterious title of asthetairoi. On a number of occasions these soldiers were also equipped with light javelins instead of spears or pikes.

Hypaspist/Aryraspides; In addition to the pezhetairoi existed an elite formation of hypaspistai or shieldbearers. These men can almost certainly be identified with the so-called argyraspides or silvershields from the later part of Alexander's reign. The hypaspistai numbered three thousand men organised in three subunits of each a thousand soldiers. Although constituting a picked force among the Macedonian infantry one of these battalions, the agema, had a higher prestige than the other two. A modest number of soomatophylakes recruited among the Macedonian nobility was attached to the hypaspistai , which were selected among those of common birth.
Without doubt the hypaspists are the most mysterious units of the Macedonian army. Historians still lack clues about what they exactly looked like and how they were armed. Adding to the controversy are the various names attached to them: Guards, Shield-Bearers and, after the invasion of India, Silver Shields (or argyraspids; their origin is equally disputed).
What is certain is that the hypaspists were outstanding infantry troops who were capable of performing a wide range of tasks. During battles they served in close combat as an extension of the phalanx, protecting its right flank, and they were also well equipped for skirmishing, fast marches, storming walls and rapid advances supporting the cavalry.Common sense indicates the hypaspists must have been, in one way or another, a flexible and mobile adaption of the original Greek hoplite. Philip had developed the hypaspists from his original body of Foot Guards. When Alexander crossed into Asia the hypaspists numbered 3,000 men divided in three divisions, one of which was the élite unit, the Royal Foot Guards or agema. This agema unit had the same role as its cavalry counterpart.

"a term which appears under Philippe II. Hypaspistes had replaced the somatophylakes and they were indicated in the official terminology under the name royal d?"d?hypaspists "or d?"agèma of Hypaspistes."
Translated from french.
"According to Arrian, Hypaspistes became argyraspides at the time of the expedition to India. However, some mention is made with regards to the resumptions of the existence of Hypaspistes in the armies of the seleucids. On the other hand, no mention is made about Hypaspistes at Raphia or Magnesia."


[The following is extracted from B. bar Kochva_ The Seleucid Army_ Cambridge
Classical Studies, NY 1976, esp. pp. 55ff.]

The Royal Guard of the argyraspides ('silver shields') numbered 10,000 foot
between the battle at Raphia 217 BC and the parade at Daphne 165 BC,
whereas the 'crack force' of the hypaspists was a picked part of the
argyraspides and numbered 2,000 foot. Therefore the ordinary argyraspides
formed two of the largest Seleucid units called strategoi of 4,000 foot
each, thus leaving two chiliarchies of 1,000 foot for the storm troops of
the hypaspists.
(this would seem to indicate that the Hypaspists of the Alexandrian age had come to mean an elite force within the Argyraspides)

Encycopedia Britannica "ancient Greek civilization." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopædia

Britannica Premium Service.
9 Nov. 2004 http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=26535.

"Already under Alexander the elite troops known as “Silver Shields,” or argyraspides, had taken their name from the conquered Persian treasure of precious metal.

Agrianians; The javelin armed Agrianoi stemmed from the neighbouring kingdom of Lagarus. These Agrianoi formed an elite among Alexander's forces and were often employed on dangerous missions.

On occasion these troops were used as hamippoi(light infantry trained to attack alongside cavalry)to strengthen the Macedonian cavalry.

Agema Foot Guard;
1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica;"The most noted corps of veterans,

Ar~yraspides (i.e. the royal Hypaspistae) played a great part in the first wars of the successors, and covered themselves with infamy by their betrayal of Eumenes."
"When Alexander crossed into Asia the hypaspists numbered 3,000 men divided in three divisions, one of which was the élite unit, the Royal Foot Guards or agema. This agema unit had the same role as its cavalry counterpart."


The royal foot-guards are still described in Macedonia in 171 as the agema~ (Polyb. V. 25, 1~ 27, 3; Liv. xlii. 51), when they number 2000; at the Ptolemaic court in 217 the agema had numbered 3000 (Polyb. v. 65, 2); and a similar corps of )iypaspistae is indicated in the Seleucid army (Polyb. vii. 16,2; Xvi. 18,7). So too the old name of Companions was kept up in the Seleucid kingdom for the Macedonian cavalry (see Polyb. v. 5~, 4, &c.), and divisions of rank in it are still indicated by the terms agema and royal squadron ($aaiXucsl Do7, see Bevan, House of Seleucus, i~. 288).

Ptolemy Philopator was able at the same time to form one of 25,000 men (Polyb. V. 4). As these phalangites are distinguished both from the Greek mercenaries and the native Egyptian levies, it looks (although such a fact would be staggering) as if more Macedonians could be raised for military service in Egypt than in Macedonia itself (but see Beloch, p. 353). The royal foot-guards are still described in Macedonia in 171 as the agema~ (Polyb. V. 25, 1~ 27, 3; Liv. xlii. 51), when they number 2000; at the Ptolemaic court in 217 the agema had numbered 3000 (Polyb. v. 65, 2); and a similar corps of )iypaspistae is indicated in the Seleucid army (Polyb. vii. 16,2; Xvi. 18,7). So too the old name of Companions was kept up in the Seleucid kingdom for the Macedonian cavalry (see Polyb. v. 5~, 4, &c.), and divisions of rank in it are still indicated by the terms agema and royal squadron

Agema was the Greek word for 'that, what is being led', but the Macedonians changed its meaning into 'that what leads'. When you know this it is not surprising that an agema was the spearhead of an army. There several agemas in his army: one for the hysapists, one for the royal cavalry, one for the light cavalry, etcetera.

Ethnic Disignations; "These were not ethnic descriptions but rather in Ptolemaic Egypt to be a Cretan, a Boeotian, a Macedonian and so forth was usually an administrative fiction that enabled an individual to be inducted into a military unit."
"The Antigonid and Seleucid courts had much valuable material at hand for their armies in the barbarian races under their sway. The Balkan hill-peoples of Illyrian or Thracian stock, the hill-peoples of Asia Minor and Iran, the chivalry of Media and Bactria, the mounted bowmen of the Caspian steppes, the camel-riders of the Arabian desert, could all be turned to account. Iranian troops seem to have been employed on a large scale by the earlier Seleucids. At Raphia, Antiochus III. had 10,000 men drawn from the provinces, armed and drilled as Macedonians, and another corps of Iranians numbering 5000 under a native commander."

"several hieroglyphic texts inscribed on stelae or statues contain biographies of Egyptians who held high administrative or military positions during the reign of Ptolemy Soter. Some of these were even members of the last native royal family, that of the Nectanebos."

Papyrus found at Tebtunis in the south of Faiyum, jan, 1900 regarding the village of Kerkeosiris."about 740 acres were registered in the names of about thirty Katoikoi, cavalrymen, all with impeccable greek pedigrees who had domains of between 20(14 acres) and 80(54 acres) arouras; the remaining 315 acres were divided among Egyptians, fifty-five infantry(Machimoi) and eight cavalrymen, who had respective holdings of 7 and 15 arouras(4-9 acres)"
In 119 BC the proportion of Machimoi cultivating their own fields was 42 percent. Three years later 98 percent of the Machimoi were present in their own fields! The demobilization following the dynastic wars had returned the Machimoi to their fields suggesting that they were levies not regulars.
years covered by archives 121-110 BC.


TACTICS; What is the predominant reason why the Macedonians of the 2nd Century BC couldn't defeat the Manipular Legion. The Macedonian phalanx was only ever meant to provide steady pressure on the enemy(letting the cavalry deliver the decisive blows to the enemy), but these later day Macedonian armies no longer possesed enough capable horsemen to form a force of cavalry as Alexandros III did, and as a result, came more and more to rely on the phalanx as earlier armies of the region had done.
The sarissa phalanx was the backbone of that system, but - as described by a military historian - "it was only the anvil of Alexander's army - the hammer was the heteroi cavalry". Even that description leaves out the numerous skirmishers, the regular hoplites, the elite pezeteroi who operated like regular hoplites, the medium cavalry that guarded the flanks and all other elements that operated inside the bounds of the macedonian phalanx.
Well, phalangites also had a dagger, but that was really nothing that proved effective on the battlefield, and was more or less an afterthought. Really, if an army managed to get in very close melee combat with the phalngites, then the phalanx would turn into a butchering house, as was the case at Pydna.

A full-fledged phalanx (the type of phalanx Phillip and Alexander used) would be heavy on skirmishers (to counter the enemy skirmishing capabilities) light cavalry (to hunt down enemy skirmishers) hoplites (to try and create a gap in the formation of the enemy) medium cavalry (to guard the flanks, preventing any encirclement action like the one you describe) and heavy cavalry (to deliver the decisive blow in any weak point of the enemy formation) while the sarissa phalanx shall perform the pinning action!

Besides, Roman cavalry was of really poor quality. In their Greek battles they relied more on their Greek allies (yes, they defeated the Greeks with the aid of ...other Greeks) rather than their own cavalry.

The_Emperor
11-12-2004, 10:48
Besides, Roman cavalry was of really poor quality. In their Greek battles they relied more on their Greek allies (yes, they defeated the Greeks with the aid of ...other Greeks) rather than their own cavalry.

Thats interesting, at the moment Greek cavalry is the worst in the game (no heavy cav other than General's Guards, and Equites beat vanilla Greek cav and Militia Cav).

Looks like the Pre-Marian Cav needs to be Nerfed.

eadingas
11-12-2004, 11:10
And reduced in numbers, if it's possible. I don't know what the minimum size of a cavalry unit could be for it to still matter on the field (ie. to it not getting simply smashed by numbers) but it needs comparative reduction...
Maybe even raise up the stats a bit, but lower the size? I've been experimenting with very small numbers - a 'Magic Potion Warriors' unit of 6 soldiers with super-high stats can safely survive against large enemy units.

The_Emperor
11-12-2004, 11:19
Also we need to make sure that Numidian cavalry can beat Equites, as they pretty much always did in every Punic war encounter! The Numidians Need better melee stats given their reputation.

Urnamma
11-12-2004, 17:07
Also we need to make sure that Numidian cavalry can beat Equites, as they pretty much always did in every Punic war encounter! The Numidians Need better melee stats given their reputation.

And swords. Definitely need swords. They didn't carry freakin knives into battle. Who the hell fights with a knife on horseback anyway?

Aymar de Bois Mauri
11-12-2004, 17:19
Thats interesting, at the moment Greek cavalry is the worst in the game (no heavy cav other than General's Guards, and Equites beat vanilla Greek cav and Militia Cav).

Looks like the Pre-Marian Cav needs to be Nerfed.
In Alpha 0.2, Roman Cav is worse of what it was in vanilla RTW. I've moded the stats.

I'm going to nerf it even more in Alpha 0.3. I will also take care of most other units if I get good info from all the experts (the historians) in the EB group.

Aymar de Bois Mauri
11-12-2004, 17:21
And reduced in numbers, if it's possible. I don't know what the minimum size of a cavalry unit could be for it to still matter on the field (ie. to it not getting simply smashed by numbers) but it needs comparative reduction...
I'm working on something. You'll find it out soon...

Aymar de Bois Mauri
11-12-2004, 17:22
Also we need to make sure that Numidian cavalry can beat Equites, as they pretty much always did in every Punic war encounter! The Numidians Need better melee stats given their reputation.
Working on it. It will be modded for the Alpha 0.3 release.

Aymar de Bois Mauri
11-12-2004, 17:24
BTW, MASSIVE and massively interesting post, sharrukin!!! Great work guys!!! :thumbsup:

Nestor
11-13-2004, 06:47
The question of the nature and the function of each type of troop in Hellenistic armies is complicated by the flexibility of the military vocabulary and the existance of multiple terms to indicate the same body of men. For example; the phalangite/phalangistes were usually indicated, according to official terminology, by the term "macedonians" and unoficially by the term "pezetairoi", "sarisphoroi" or simply "heavy troops". I have arbitrarily chosen the term Phalangite as the most readily descriptive term in english. The meanings of any of these terms change over time. We also have the problem of sources. Greek and Latin authors discussing military matters that they may have limited knowledge in, and translating from a foreign language for an audience unfamiliar with such terms. The need to simplify, entertain and moralize would only rarely allow an accurate translation.

Totally agree with your remarks. In fact, in Greece, the term "hoplite" or "stratiotis" is still in use meaning the foot soldier of today. The same applies for many other terms too. The big difference is the way they were fighting in the period that the game covers. If we present the faction units as they should be arround 270 BC I could suggest a few things about the common units they can have:

COMMON UNITS (Macedons, Seleucids, Ptolemies)
"Basiliki Ili"
We can have the term "Basiliki Ili" (I am not certain of the actual spelling we can use in Latin/English) for the General's unit of Macedons/Seleucids/Ptolemies. Actually, there was only one in every hellenistic Kingdom so we are giving them more than they had but since we cannot have a differentiation between the unit of the leader of a faction and the units of the other generals the term can be used IMO.

"Hetairoi"
All three factions can have "Hetairoi" cavalry. It's true they couldn't find always Macedons to form these units, but they were always trying to do so ("clerouchoi") and they did keep the name. If we had some kind of early/late periods like in MTW we could alter their stats in later periods. As it is now, "Hetairoi" should cover us.

"Hypaspistai"
They are the elite infantry unit of all three. Sometimes they are called "argyraspides" but I cannot conclude that this was their official name. In fact I've seen units in the macedonian phalanx to carry the same name (battle of Pydna, 168 BC, between the Macedonian King Perseus and the Roman Army of Lucius Aemilius Paullus). I'm inclined to think that "argyraspides" is more of a decorative issue: they could be elite, but they could also be just the best of the rest. They could be part of an "agema" but since the veteran troops in game are better I don't see the point to include another similar/bit better unit.

"Macedonian phalanx" (or "Phalanx Pezhetairon" or "Pezhetairoi")
They are "sarissophoroi" heavy infantry. It was easier to get them in Macedonia but Seleucids/Ptolemies, giving land to new recruits ("clerouchoi"), were able to field similar units. I prefer the name "Macedonian phalanx". It's generic enough to cover all of them yet it shows that it's a different phalanx than the rest of Greece.

Can we start with the common units before we decide about the rest?
---------------
Another note. I'm not particularly fond of the term militia hoplites. In my mind they are just peasants trying to form a phalanx. They would exist as long as their city was in danger.

khelvan
11-13-2004, 07:33
In Alpha 0.2, Roman Cav is worse of what it was in vanilla RTW. I've moded the stats.

I'm going to nerf it even more in Alpha 0.3. I will also take care of most other units if I get good info from all the experts (the historians) in the EB group.

I would be careful nerfing it further. It is very bad at the moment. Making it more expensive, yes, to keep the numbers down...but it wasn't almost useless cavalry; it was limited in role and number, and worse than its contemporaries, but it wasn't worthless on the field. It secured the flanks and ran down fleeing enemies as its primary role, but I never read that they were horrible in combat.