Osaka Jo

[Toranaga sama]

The thing was great, and they really beat into the ground how different it was from Toyotomi to Tokugawa. They have a two part folding screen depicting the Summer War for Osaka, models of the thing in the Toyotomi era, and Tokugawa era. A museum on new Japanese swords, and a mediocre giftshop. There I bought a small model of the Donjon and a small replica folding screen of the battle of Nagashino.

In Kyoto, I went to Nijo jo. That was interesting as well.

I have pics. If they turn out, I'll post. T

PS. This could have gone to Off Topic, but I think it has relevence.

[Yoshikazu Hojo]

Haven`t been to Osaka Jo as yet. Nijo jo in Kyoto isn`t tha spectacular in scale to other castles yet its certain features are great, like the specially built floor boards that creek to alert guards and the various waiting rooms for the different levels of retainers. Did you go to the golden temple Toranaga?

[Toranaga sama]

Kinkakuji was really cool... it closed at 5, and we got there at 4:55. I was soo scared we wouldn't be able to make it.

A thing about Nijo Jo is, the floorboards did creak, but apparently it was to mimic a bird singing. Particularly on ethat the japanese enjoy very much. At least that's what I was told by the Nihonjin I was with

[FwSeal]

Is the amusement park still there, near Osaka Castle? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Did you get a chance to see Mt. Hiei? That's a very neat place to visit. Though most of the buildings are post-Nobunaga (needless to say), the complex has a very timeless quality.

[Toranaga sama]

I wasn't able to see Mt. Hiei. I didn't have an enormous amount of time to spent at the castle. When we were done with the tour, we did go across the street and have McDonalds at the International Marketplace.

I have to say though, this Shinkansen is an incredible way to travel. We made it from Odawara to Shin-Osaka in 2 and a half hours. Odawara is maybe 2 hours by regular train from Tokyo.

[Yoritomo]

Im assuming that your talking about the famous Himeji Jo castle?

One of the last remaining castles left?

Im going to Japan in Septemtber, will be looking at all the castles i can =]

Matsumoto-Jo is another one that im visiting that is the real McCoy


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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

[Toranaga sama]

I wish I had been able to visit Himeji, but I hadn't enough time to get down there. There are very few castles left that preserve their time, and Osaka Jo is not one. Still good to see though.

Himeji is the top of my list for next time.

[Yoritomo]

How long were you there for Toranaga?

Im holidaying in Japan for 4 weeks, which is damned expensive for an Aussie..

Im staying over in Tokyo, Nikko, Matsumoto, Takayama, Nagoya, Kyoto and Osaka..

Any ideas as to what is a must see? I have things planned, but may miss out on on things people recommend?

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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

[Toranaga sama]

In Kyoto, Sanjusangendo is interesting. There are 1001 hand carved buddha statues... KyuuMizu is good only in the spring, because it is famous for Cherry blossoms. Ginkakuji isn't that fantastic (compared to Kinkakuji) because their plan was to coat it in silver, but they didn't have any money... Nijo Jo was good because of it's historical value. That is where the last Tokugawa decided to give the government back to the Emperor.

I didn't do much sightseeing in Osaka, but you have to visit Osaka Jo.

In Nikko, there is Nikko Edo Mura, a samurai theme park. I really wanted to go, but no time :-( They have interesting attractions like the "Ninja Trick House Theater", "Ninja Aerial Action Road", and "Mysterious Ninja Residence".

[This message has been edited by Toranaga sama (edited 07-12-2001).]

[Koga No Goshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[FwSeal]

If you go to Tokyo, watch out for the crows, I understand they are having a bit of a problem with them there right now... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Toranaga sama]

along the ocean there is a problem with a bird they call the Tonbi. Apparently it has become so bold as to snatch hamburgers out of peoples' hands, and has caused a few injuries.

[FwSeal]

Speaking of spots in Japan, I also happened to think about the Gettysburg thread in OT. I must say, this was one of the bigger disappointments for me about Japan (which ought not to have surprised me): the loss of old battlefields to sprawl. Needless to say, this cannot be helped, as flat land is at a bit of a premium in Japan. But it is too bad. The funniest thing I have ever seen (OK, not THE funniest, but very funny) was a televised Kawanakajima reenactment about five or six years ago. I have posted this before, but it is worth retelling.
The whole affair took place on a little patch of land that was perhaps half the size of a soccer field (basically all that was left of the Hachimanbara, I think) that was crossed by what I took to be a bike path. The two 'armies', mostly local high school kids, marched out, with the Takeda arriving on the field to the strains of the 'Ride of the Valkyries' (seriously). There was a little mock battle, with the kids (maybe 200 or so), grinning brightly, nudging one another with spears. At a certain point, 'Kenshin' rode out and circled the Uesugi part of the field once, then made for 'Shingen's' camp. On the way, he slipped to one side in his saddle, then fell right off! He hastily got ahold of his mount, then finished his attack on Shingen, with each blow to Shingen's war fan accompanied by crashes through loud speakers. The battle then wrapped up and was over. All the while, two announcers, a man and woman, described the events unfolding in what sounded exactly like they were calling a game in the PGA. That alone made the thing worth just seeing on TV http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I did have a chance to see better reenactments (though nothing approaching what we have here for the Civil War), but that one really stands out in my mind http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Yoshikazu Hojo]

Yoritomo you will have a great timeI am sure of it mate!
You will get to see a lot of Japan staying at those places. While it is not a castle, Nikko is a great place to explore with all its lavish temples that the Tokugawa used as a summer retreat etc. Such beautiful artwork and crasftsmenship went into every aspect of the buildings it will blow you away.
Himeiji jo is a must see castle, I have been there once as I have also to NIkko. Himeiji is a world heritage site and is a good day trip from Osaka or Kyoto. If you go there don`t plan much else for the day cause there is so much to soak up and enjoy by just wandering around. Hope you are using a Japan rail pass ? It is the best way to get around Japan.

[Hawkeye]

Himeji is definately THE castle to visit. It is only about 40 minutes from Kobe. I have visited it many times and am awed by it each time.

Another place to go for historical stuff would be Nara. Such a quaint city. Todaiji is the worlds largest wooden building and has many statues. There is quite a bit to see in Nara and you can even see the cute de-horned midget japanese deer...

Japan, a country of extremes.

[Yoritomo]

Thanks Yoshikazu and all the other guys..

And yes, Im using a 14 day rail pass, that should get me to where I want to be.

The details are still being worked out by the travel agent, but I would like to spend a bit more time in Kyoto, I have a friend over there that is studying and doing kendo there, I hope to do some kendo over there as well.

I heard Kyoto needs a lot of time, as you can literally spend days and find new things about it, from what I've heard Kyoto is the cultural heart of Japan..

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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

[Toranaga sama]

I saw a good chunk of the tourist stuff in one day. They have a great city bus system.. you won't have to wait long, and there are special gaijin pamphlets just for you! Just remember... Nijo Jo closes at 4 pm, and Kinkakuji closes at 5!

If you ride the shinkansen, there are 3 types: the Kodama, which means "Echo", Hikari, which is "light", and another that means "wish". From Osaka to Odawara was 2 1/2 hours. Incredible. The railpass was fantastic though. That was using the Hikari.. it was 4 hours on the Kodama.

[This message has been edited by Toranaga sama (edited 07-15-2001).]

[Hawkeye]

Yoritomo:

Are you getting used to Japanese air conditioning? It is either set off or to frostbite power.


Japan, a country of extremes.

[This message has been edited by Hawkeye (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Yoritomo]

LOL, pretty much like Air conditioning here in Australia.

Its either 42C outside in summer, or absolutely freezing inside =]



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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

Word of advice:
Don't waste your time at Hiei-zan. I went there expecting to walk the paths through the forest, allowing myself to slip backwards in time to when Oda had the mountain encircled...

The monks had been a perennial problem in the ancient capital, and Oda needed to knock them into line before continuing his campaign. His attempts at subduing the monks failed, however, as the steep slopes of Hiei provided excellent defense for the warriors at the top.

So Oda laid siege to the mountain. Then one August day, when the winds were favorable, he sent torch bearers to set the mountain on fire. The forest erupted into flames, and fanned by the ascending winds, sent the fires running up the mountain to the temple complex at its summit. The monks tried in vain to put out the fire and in desperation ran through the flames. Those who survived were picked off by Oda's archers. End of siege, end of problem. Oda moved on.

It wasn't until 1995 when the monks at the Enryakuji began praying for Oda's soul.

Sorry; I'm sure you all know that story, but it's my personal fave.

I wanted to walk the mountain paths in silent reverence of this site, but instead found myself running to escape the cheezy "happy music" (not even Enka - I'm not sure what the hell it was) being blared from loudspeakers throughout the forest.

The Japanese cannot handle silence. Even at the Zen Garden at Ryoanji there are loudspeakers explaining the placement of the rocks and hawking souvenirs. Hiei was even worse. I couldn't find anyplace to escape those loudspeakers.

So be happy. You missed absolutely nothing...

Regards
James Kirwin

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Sweep the mind of all thoughts.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

Himeji Jo Rocks.

I spent two weeks on the castle grounds when i was in college. One of the tour guides wanted to practice english, so every day i would show up and walk the grounds with my own personal guide. It was FREAKIN' GREAT!!!!

Somedays i would get a normal tour, sometimes i would say "pick your topic"!, some days it would be my pick ("Hey - what the heck are these things over here for? what's that? what's this? Why is this like that? What do you mean i am not supposed to be sitting on the Lord's Throne?").

Before and after the tours, i would paint and draw the castle. I was inspired to buy the traditional brush and black ink and that is where i started my style of illustration that stands out to this day. Lots of folks came up and checked out my work ("hey crazy white boy, why are you painting our castle?"). I can still draw the floorplans of the Jo and surrounding grounds from memory!!!

It was the time of my life.

-----end-----

p.s. Osaka Jo is like a 3/4 reproduction, is my understanding.

[ishikawa2]

Folks, I stumbled onto this thread a bit late, but I have to add a couple of thoughts.
I toured many of the places you folks are describing perhaps 20 years ago and still remember them VERY fondly. (Yes, I'm the old dude.) Himeji is simply not to be missed. I was lucky enough to be there when the cherry blossoms were blooming. I was also lucky enough to respectfully watch the monks at their kendo dojo at Nikko even though it was not intended for tourists. Kyoto, Nara, and the shinkansen... all fine memories.

A comment on Kerwin's post about Hiei-zan: I also had an experience where I had expected it to be rather somber, but was instead subjected to raucous and jarring celebrations. I arrived in Hiroshima late one evening and just had time to walk down to "Ground Zero"... the Atomic Dome. I expected a very subdued visit to the memorial, but it was "sakura matsuri" time and the park was swarming with loud, drunken partyers. It was rather unnerving.

My advice to anyone who can possibly do it:
visit Japan! It's a fascinating place. I spent a little less than a month there and would love to go back.

cheers.

[Tachikaze]

OK, you guys, my turn.

I went to Hiei-zan in the dead of winter, shortly before last Shôgatsu. There were snow flurries in the air that melted on the ground. Maybe the speakers didn't work in the cold, because it was nice and quiet. I enjoyed that place a lot. I even got to ring the great temple bell. That was significant for me, because I watched the ringing of the bells all over Japan for Shôgatsu '96/'97. One was that same bell on Hiei.

That 1997 TV broadcast was great for me. It was very quiet and peaceful, and each of the 108 ringings of the bell was shown at a different temple around the islands. I tried to see the ringing of the bell in Nagoya on this last trip. My experience was not unlike what some of you experienced at Hiei-zan. There was a whole carnival around the temple grounds, with noisy people buying junk, and even youth gangs. I expected solemn ritual to quietly ponder the last year and the year ahead while the bell tolled 108. As it was, I left early and disappointed.

Himeji is significant because it has most of the citadels and baileys intact. You can see a huge complex of walls, loopholes, and towers. Some prefer the donjons of a few of the other castles, but they usually don't have the surrounding defensive works of Himeji-jô. I bought a plastic model kit of the castle.

Kyoto/Nara almost require a trip all their own. Kinkaku-ji was great. I had seen many photos of it, and seeing it in person was a real treat. I want one in my backyard.

On the last trip to central Japan, I also went up to the Hida area. We stayed in a ryokan, complete with private onsen and complementary exquisite 12-course meal, including world-famous hida beef shabu-shabu. I recommend doing something like this if you are planning a trip to Japan.

By the time we got to Osaka, I think my koibito was tired of castles. So, we just walked around Ôsaka-jô's keep. The elevator turned me off. The keep itself looked nice, if you ignored the fact that is is made of concrete. Yes, there was a dormant (because of the cold) carnival nearby.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

This link here:
http://www.woohoolio.com/groupdisplay.asp?group=kpai

is a painting i did from the grounds at Himeji Jo. If you were a little ashigaru storming that place, this is the view you would have.

[Yoritomo]

Toranaga

did the pics turn out?

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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

[Tachikaze]

McKenna,

Nobody ever commented on your painting. It's very nice. Did you actually paint it on the site? It must have been nice to relax on the grounds with palette in hand.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

thankee

Yes - that is the view /scale / angle from where i sat. It was a HUGE flag grass area - at least half a mile by half a mile? (or maybe i was feeling small)... I imagine they had many a troop march around in that area, back in the day.

Its a wonderful castle - i recommend going out of your way to see it.

[BlackWatch McKenna]

it seems i can not spell.

It was a huge FLAT area i sat in. It was very relaxing, indeed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I painted it with Ink and Water.

[CEWest]

I thought Mt. Hiei was one of the more impressive places I've visited - the skating rink on top was fairly depressing though. It was early january - and again the 'speakers' must have been shut down. Anyway, I was amazed at the logistics it must have taken nobunaga to surround and destroy it. It isn't a wimpy hill - it's a damn mountain range. Maybe when i go back in october the speakers will be working http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I'd reccomend a trip to Kyushu. the castle ruins are far cooler than the concrete monstrosities of kyoto (particularly Saiki castle in Oita and Omura castle in Nagasaki) - and whoever decided to put the kiddie themepark next do Momoyama castle should be shot!