Any questions relating to the Mongols?

[Zen Blade]

Hey guys,

With the official release this week if ANYONE has some questions about either the mongol hordes or the japanese forces (whether it be during the Sengoku Jidai or the Hojo Regency), please feel free to ask.

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Kurando]

I am interested in the communications system that the Mongols used to transfer messages across their vast Empire. Who were the Cham and how were they organized?

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

And why did the Mongols evaporate so quickly after the death of Genghis Khan?

I've always wondered that...

------------------
The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

[FwSeal]

The cham, or Yam, was established in the time of Ogedei and eventually streched throughout the Mongol Empire. Post stops were placed within a day's hard ride of one another. At these stops, which were maintained by the military, messangers (who bore identifying devices called paizas) changed horses provided by the locals. Messangers of the Yam usually rode with two horses, changing often to maintain their fast pace. Thus messanges could be sent at almost unheard of speeds acorss equally unheard of distances.
Marshall's 'Storm from the East' provides an easy and useful description of the Yam.

It might be argued that, all things considered, the Mongols lingered on longer than they might have. If Khuiblai is to be considered the last true 'Great Khan' (in the sense of holding authority over such a vast territory), than the Mongol Empire as we think of it might be said to have lasted for about 90 years. At the same time, serious cracks had already developed before Khubilai was named Great Khan. The simplest reason usually given for the Mongol decline, and probably the best, was that they were simpy absorbed into the cultures they conquered. This was perhaps most strikingly clear in Persia, where the enlightened Ilkhan Ghazan took up Islam and challanged his forbears' ideas of morality and conduct. There were many other reasons, of course, some of them being economic (at least in the case of the Persian Ilkhanate), and some were a direct result of Genghis Khan's determination to maintain Mongol customs despite the near-hegemony his people were to hold in Eurasia. As John Keegan (in his fine 'History of Warfare') wrote, 'Genghis is credited with great administrative ability but it was extractive, not stablilising, designed to support the nomad way of life, not to change it. His system included no means of legitimising the rule of a single successor, even in the eyes of the Mongols themselves, let alone that of their subjects.'
Each of the great centers of Mongol power - China, Persia, and Russia, was gone by the end of the 14th Century. The Goldon Horde of Russia was maintained largely in name only, and lasted until 1502 (hence its inclusion in Europa Universalis http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.

[This message has been edited by FwSeal (edited 08-10-2001).]

[MagyarKhans Cham]

i have no time to read your possts guys but a visit to www.mongols.club.tip.nl (http://www.mongols.club.tip.nl) might help u

[Grim]

Did anyone had some success (read won a big battle) against the mongols (apart from the divine wind wich did a magnificient job http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )?

If yes, wich battle ?

[Zen Blade]

ummm....

Khan knows better than me here...

BUT, they were stopped in the Middle East eventually... not sure of the exact reason though.
That's probably your best bet.

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Asturian Knight]

Grim,

The Mamluks did in 1260
http://www.strategypage.com/articles/default.asp?target=mongol.htm

------------------
Strength and Honor!!

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

AK
Nice link. Learned something today. Thanks.

------------------
The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

[Grim]

Thx for the very cool link.

Now let me get this straight, the mongols just lost their ilkhan, their commander was replace by a christian (who felt into the feigned-retreat tactic of said mongols),(honor 0 anyone...); they were facing born-warriors mameluks who knew they were the last hope (if they failed, their wife and children would get it... ever heard of fanaticism?); And they still came close to winning (O Muslim! O Muslim! O Muslim!snirfl...almost poetic). My god, they are truly powerful...

[Kurando]

If you have RealPlayer there are two interesting 8 and 11 minute lectures on the Mongol Invasion of Russia here: Part 1 (the invasion) (http://palimpsest.lss.wisc.edu/~creeca/RA/mongols.ram) and Part 2 (historical impact) (http://palimpsest.lss.wisc.edu/~creeca/RA/mongols2.ram).

They are complete with a handy quizes for afterwards: quiz 1 (http://palimpsest.lss.wisc.edu/~creeca/mongol_quiz.html), quiz 2 (http://palimpsest.lss.wisc.edu/~creeca/mongol2_quiz.html)

[TemujinForever]

"Now let me get this straight, the mongols just lost their ilkhan, their commander was replace by a christian (who felt into the feigned-retreat tactic of said mongols),(honor 0 anyone...); they were facing born-warriors mameluks who knew they were the last hope (if they failed, their wife and children would get it... ever heard of fanaticism?); And they still came close to winning (O Muslim! O Muslim! O Muslim!snirfl...almost poetic). My god, they are truly powerful..."



If the Imperial Council back at Sheng-du thought capturing the whole of North Africa worth it, they would send in 100,000 Horsemen and rip North Africa to shreds. BTW the Mamelukes were turks an offshoot group of Seljuks that fled to Egypt to escape the Mongol Juggernaut.

[clockwork_orange]

It should also be noted that at Ayn Jalut that the Mongols were outnumbered anywhere from 4:1 to 12:1.