GENGHIS KHAN IS THE GREATEST GENERAL IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

[TemujinForever]

All shall kneel before him. His spirit lives on in the rising Dragon that is China! The sacred temples and fountains of Sheng Du(Xanadu) SHALL RISE AGAIN!

[Khan7]

Ummmmmm.. the Chinese FOUGHT the Mongols.. the Chinese HATED the Mongols.. the Chinese ultimately WHUPPED the Mongols.. I don't see the correlation, sorry.

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Khan7

[Khan7]

There is really a much greater correlation between the Russians, the dominant factions of which were descended from Mongols.

[TemujinForever]

Mongolia is part of China. It doesn't matter how you rationalize it. The Chinese also hated the Manchus, but today the Manchus are Chinese. So are the Mongols. China was and will always be Sheng Du Xanadu. The DRAGON is rising! Glory to the DRAGON!

[Warmaker]

Hmmm...

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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!

[Khan7]

If Mongolia WERE part of China, you might have a point. But Mongolia has its own country, a socialist democracy.

It pays to be up on current events if you're going to make wild claims about them :-)

Counting the seconds before some admin sees this and moves it to OT..

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Khan7

[Catiline]

Should this go to history or OT. I rarely transfer to history, it can go there.

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Oderint dum metuant

[Minamoto Yoritomo]

No amount of government propaganda or cultural hegemony can change the fact that at this moment in time Mongolia (well, at least the fair-sized remainder that China didn't annex) has its own government, its own military, and it own currency. Whether or not in your mind it is an integral part of China, these facts make it (much like Taiwan) a FACTUALLY independent nation, and therefore the true heir to the Great Khan's legacy, such as it is...

On the other hand, Genghis Khan ruthlessly slaughtered countless unfortunate victims. He used every means possible to increase his own personal power at the expense of others' freedom. He inexorably expanded his domain, continually attempting to destroy the autonomy and culture of bordering nations. He used terror and violence to keep the conquered population in line. I apologize, perhaps China does best represent his legacy.

[TemujinForever]

Minamoto Yorimoto, you've become a victim of the CNN propaganda machine. You will realize the truth soon enough.

[Tenchimuyo]

Yep, the Mongolia land is not a part of China. They have their own system of government and currency. Plus a totally different language from Chinese. If you are going to make such claims then you might as well start with the Japanese first because they look very much like Chinese and they used Chinese writings in their language. And don't forget the Japanese conquest of China, they've killed more Chinese then the Mongols did.



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A great warrior rarely reveal his true skills....

[Minamoto Yoritomo]

Actually, I'm sorry for the inflammatory tone I took in the above post. I'd be more than happy to discuss this with you rationally if you would kindly address the factual points raised in the above statements. Please explain to me why you believe Mongolia to be part of China when the facts seem to indicate otherwise. I'd also like to better understand what you mean when you say that the spirit of the Great Khan lives on in China.

I await your reply with great anticipation.

[This message has been edited by Minamoto Yoritomo (edited 08-28-2001).]

[Otokomi Innue]

Minamoto,

When Ghegis Khan was in the throws of death, his aides held a tuft of camel's hair to his mouth to catch his spirit. These hairs are housed in a Chinese museum and are revered. His body has not been found, but there is suspicion that he is buried near his birthplace in Mongolia.

Burials at the time of the great Khans, very a very secret affair. I assume to prevent theft and vandalism.

[Khan7]

Yes, burials of importants such as Khans were VERY secret-- they got together a whole big heavily armed burial party, and if they met anyone on the way, they'd kill them.. and then when they buried him, the escort would also kill themselves!!

I think anyway.. the latter statement may be an exagerration, but I think it could be right, wouldn't be surprised if I was right anyway..

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Khan7

[Otokomi Innue]

Here's a little article about the possible grave of Genghis Kahn.


http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/01/010817.khan.shtml

Another little article explains that 800 soldiers who attended the burial were killed. 800!

[This message has been edited by Otokomi Innue (edited 08-29-2001).]

[vangersonm]

One day there is going to be another World War. " China and the U.S. "

[Khan7]

Not necessarily vanger.. but the way the US is handling itself, I wouldn't be surprised..

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Khan7

[Khan7]

heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked our A$$

[Tenchimuyo]

Not if Bush can drag himself out of office before he does anything stupid. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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A great warrior rarely reveal his true skills....

[Khan7]

Sadly, its not Bush.. its the general weak character of leadership we have come to expect and want in America, and our own isolationist, selfish attitudes. We need a Pearl Harbor before its too late, or we're screwed this time round-- and not necessarily by a war. They could very well just be smart and usurp our legitimacy in the international community and grab our role, all through clever statecraft that takes advantage of our generally myopic and often bumbling statecraft. What we need is to buddy up with Russia.. Russia wants this, and they only pretend to buddy up to China to make us jealous (I'm dead serious, it's a perfect analogy).. but Russia can only do so much, and if we don't keep up well enough there's nothing they can do and China will rise and even the Europeans will eventually drift away from us to embrace the Chinese.

I personally percieve that the US's position and indeed its very welfare will become very endangered well within my lifetime, and doing what I can to get us onto a better course will be one of my primary overriding goals in my life.

Ugh, America is so shallow and myopic, for all our greatness..

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Khan7

[TemujinForever]

Buddy up with Russia? LoL. The Russians have already stated that their future lies with the East through various treaties of friendship and economic cooperation, and now with the West in moral decline, that decision is becoming more and more validated.

The best course for the U.S. to follow is to foster friendly relations with the Rising Dragon and not to provoke it.

Napolean once said about China

"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, the World will tremble"

The Dragon is Rising ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif)

[Zen Blade]

Temujin,

when and where exactly did Napolean say that???

No offense mate, but I have never heard any sort of quote like that made by Napoleon referring to China

-Zen Blade



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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Oda Matsu]

A lot of Marxists look to China as "the new Soviet Union". Their blind hatred of the US is virtually unbounded, which helps them to be equally myopic about China's serious problems and human rights abuses.

Doanger does invite rescue, however. Just as a rise in Chinese militancy and arrogance alienated them from their neighbors in teh 14th-15th centuries, with a similar advent of Japanese empire building making them a regional pariah in the 20th, so a renewed Chinese aggressiveness is making friend for the US throughout the region. Even Vietnam, long a brutal and repressive state, is making quiet overtures to the US. Thus, a wise American policy would be to bolster regional Asiatic states against Marxist infiltration and conquest (as is occuring in Nepal, for example) whilst indirectly assisting any coalition that springs up in Asia.

The Chinese government is highly unpopular amongst the young in China. It's only a matter of time before pro-Western Chinese overthrow the old Marxist mandarins and establish a free republic there. At that point, the rout of Marxism and the Left will be virtually complete.

[Dark Phoenix]

What is wrong with the left ?

If the politicians were not corrupted it would work much better. When are there going to be more than a few a americans who actually break away from the propaganda that the US government spreads. Capitalism will eventually fail as it will have too many peopel in poverty which is the direction it is currently heading.

I wonder how many americans actually know of the CIA involvement in Indonesia overthrowing governments of places like East Timor in killing a million people in which the CIA and British governmentgave a list of people to kill and then supporting there corruption of the money they were taking from IMF which of all the aid given to Indonesia was over half if I remember correctly was taken by Suharto and hois cronies.

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

"DP is correct" - Shiro

[MarkF]

What was the subjeckt nowagain....

[RageMonsta]

Marxist...hmmmm...well Russia didnt follow the works of Mr Marx (completely).....Russia didnt have the industry to do so.....they followed something called Communism....which is corrupt..because of the hierachy.....Marxism is a great idea.....unless you are part of the ruling class.......anyway...back the the original statement by the person who watches CNN but claims to be a radical chinese person.....do you also feel that Tibet is Chinese?.....Mongols, Chinese.....yeah just like Shaka Zulu was an Englishman.

[Zen Blade]

Ok,

This topic has deviated from its original meaning... which is fine.

However, I woud suggest posting a new topic about this in the history forum if you guys want a serious discussion about this. I am fine with leaving it here in the history forum since it'll prevent stupid posts from being added, but this has deviated from the original topic.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Oda Matsu]

Suharto did nothing that the Vietnamese weren't themselves doing in 1975 - to wit, seizing his country back from colonial powers. The difference here is that the Left has found mileage (and potential oil wealth) in backing this particular colonial minority. Were there a strong Marxist movement amongst the white minority in Rhodesia, the Left would be beside themselves in criticism over Mugabe, etc...

I remember a while back, when the Left was just getting this business in East Timor started (in the mid-80's, just after the off-shore oil fields were discovered). At the meeting I attended, I was told that the Portuguese minority was being brutally mistreated by the Indonesians, and that something had to be done immediately before they were wiped out completely. Poor defenseless women and children were mentioned...

I suggested that, as the situation they described sounded dire and immediate, that the only viable alternative was an equally immediate evacuation (this is, after all, what we did with many Vietnamese just after the fall of Saigon). My comment was that, as our main concern ought to be the safety of these people, and not some foolish territorial issue (which would have no relevance to the dead, needless to say), that we should push for such an evacuation to the US as soon as possible.

I was, of course, shunned thereafter. These people had not gone to the trouble of instigating a bloody revolution just to have all their work undone in the name of saving a few worthless pawns. These women and children needed to be killed, if only to justify the seizure of all that lovely oil revenue by Fretilin...

If a Leftist were on fire, I wouldn't spit on him to put him out. Might pull out a marshmallow, though.