AyraWinla
11-17-2004, 16:00
Let's try to get some positive talk about multiplayer for once ~:)
What armies do you usually use, and what strategies do you usually use with it? I know it might be "revealing your secrets", but for one I don't mind.
I use Scythia mainly, alongside with Pontus, Thrace and Briton. I have a great record with Scythia, and... err... less so with the others :embarassed:. I tend to use different factions depending on the amount the host has set, because some factions don't work well with very low or very high denarii (100k denarii games with barbarian factions is pretty much suicide for example). I also play mostly 2v2: I love the cooperation part of the game, but I'll play 3v3 or 1v1 occassionally. I'll do my Scythia army first, I'll put the others later. Feel free to post yours!
****** SCYTHIA ******
Denarii amount: From 10k to 25k denarii (12.5k prefered, it's a perfect fit).
Army size: Anything but Small.
Army composition:
6 Head Hunting Maidens (Including general)
6 Scythian Noble Women
2 Scythian Nobles
2 Axemen
2 Warhounds
2 Chosen Archer Warband
Upgrades: Army is a perfect fit at 12.5k, so usually none. If higher denarii, priority is set to upgrade weapon on ranged units and warhounds, then fully upgrade Head Hunting Maidens.
Work best against:
Artilery-heavy armies.
20 cataphrac / 20 chariots / 20 cheap units armies.
Work fine against:
Pretty much any standard army setup: You are fine against any army type (that I faced up to now anyway).
Work worst against:
50k denarii and up armies, due to boosted urban cohorts and the like being unroutable. Completely unusable in Small unit size.
Strategy: Mobility is the key. There's 2 reasons for using Scythian Noble women instead of the "better" Scythian Noble Archers:
1) They are faster: Being able to disable the tribe before a charging cavalry and run away succesfully as the enemy cataphrac / praetorian cavalry (Nearly always those) is charging point blank is critical.
2) There's not enough female units, and I wanted to make a functional army with as many of them as I could. A 100% female army would be cheap beyond belief (100% cavalry), and I want both players to have fun, so this is the best compromise.
For Head Hunting Maidens, it's quite simple: Fastest unit in the game, and that beats Cataphracs and Praetorian cavalry handily. They will rout any and all horse archers without breaking a sweat. They are your most important units, so never throw them away.
My beginning army formation is VERY untiddy, but it is the most efficient for this army type. I place the 6 foot units together, next to my ally flank (Center when 1v1). Behind them some distance away, I have 2 Head Hunting Maiden + general maiden unit. I place a group of 3 Scythian Noble Women, 2 Head Hunting Maidens and 1 Scythian noble on the other extreme flank. At the center (or other flank in 1v1) I have the other 3 Scythian Noble Women, and behind them some distance, 1 Maiden and 1 noble.
The result is that the enemy has no clear place to charge, except for the foot army. The Chosen Archer Warbands are a charge magnet: If the enemy charge there, they get surrounded in seconds by the 3 separate cavalry groups, from all sides. If they don't, the archer warbands are very potent archers, and will cause good damage to the enemy during the whole battle. Late-game, they are decent melee too. The axemen are fast, strong "pinning" units: they will always hold long enough to do the maneuver you need. In late-game, they are also handy battle units.
Note that any of the following is only when facing "standard" armies: 20 cavalry units will charge at you, but you are faster than any of them. Make them in a nice little column while they pursue you and position your 3 cavalry regiment for flanking: You have many less units, but you can still surround them by making them in a big blob. Their other option is to charge your foot soldiers, which will hold any charge for some time (Axemen are soo underrated), which makes your flanking job even easier. Send in the dogs for morale penality when the huge enemy cavalry blob is surrounded, and viola! Instant victory. Now for the more interresing battles...
The key is deception, ambush and mobility. Since you don't have much firepower with this army, you need to have complete control of the match. Once you have disabled the enemy cavalry, you are free to do as you wish. Luring the enemy cavalry out is harder against good players, in which case you have to force them to do it. To force them, you need to gain the missile advantage. In short, be an annoyance. Take out enemy artilery first (if applicable): Send the dogs at them. It's a great deal, and you keep the handlers while they have nothing left. If the onagers are behind enemy lines, just shoot the crew with the Chosen Archers and the Noble Women, doing the tribe. Don't be afraid to be very close to enemy lines; the closer the better in fact. If the enemy has no art but lots of archers, same strategy, but send the dogs at them instead. When they send their cavalry to drive your horse archers out (They HAVE to), you have to make them overcommit, which is something Scythian Noblewomen do far better than Scythian Noble Archers. Stay in tribe mode until the last possible moment, then run away, preferably toward the center (If 6+ cavalry groups) or right toward the zone edge. Be sure that the enemy are mere inches from your noble women; it will make them pursue a second more, and that's all you need (Zone edge helps for that too). If you need more time for some reasons, make them catch one of your cavalry. If they don't commit at all, just keep shooting at them: they'll have to move sometime).
If it's a huge enemy group and that they might seem , send one Scythian Noble to charge at them head-on, to stop them.. Smack the Maidens on their flank. If they look like they are determined to pursue (Cataphrac and Praetorian cavalry users just don't understand that Head Hunting Maiden (ie. Light cavalry) can beat their "uber heavy cav"), just flank them directly. No matter what happen or what method you choose, you'll be hitting on both flanks at once.
Once that is done, you have control of the game... But you have to go carefully. You still don't have firepower: You have light cavalry best suited to beat other cavalry, with weak charge bonus, and your infantry aren't too strong. You can flank and encircle them and shoot them however: You have all these advantages. They will almost certainly now go for your foot units: Let them, and fight them.. Just make sure to always at least double charge from the back any unit (Dog handlers are engage the enemy in front): A mass charge at them will make you lose. It needs to be precision charge, and know how to disengage your cavalry very early: You need to keep your casualties to a minimum, since you don't have strong melee units. Don't be afraid to melee with your Noble Women and archer warbands either, if it will make a unit rout. Be precise and avoid meleeing for more than 10 seconds with your cavalry: If you have 2 units behind and enemy, it is better and safer to send one cavalry charge in, melee for 2-3 seconds (so they do damage but don't get entangled), pull back, and as soon as they move away, charge the other one in. Repeat. It saves lots of your precious Head Hunting Maidens. The matches aren't as long as my description might make it sound either: Usually, my Noble Women will still be at half ammunition by match end. I could definitively take much longer to shoot the enemy is down to their infantry (to save myself lots of casualties), but I don't want to drag the game and be too mean to my opponents... It's still a game and I want everyone to have fun: them being shot at by cavalry archers for 10 minutes when they have no hopes of ever catching them because they only have their infantry block left is certainly not fun for them. So I keep it at a minimum.
I highly recommend to keep an eye on your ally at all times: I nearly always send at least 2 Head Hunting Maidens to help my ally at some point: either to beat the enemy cavalry, to completely destroy their archer/skirmishers or to turn the tides on the main battle line. Your maidens are fast enough to be back on your side in an instant if you need them. I'll nearly always take out the artilery of both enemy armies if my ally seems like he/she would need help taking them out. And don't be afraid to send actually most of your army help your ally: No matter if your "designated" opponent becomes stronger than you because of it, the result is that it will be 2v1. With fast cavalry, helping your ally is easy.
And... I think I wrote more than enough :) The way I play my Scythia is VERY micro-intensive, especially during the "lure enemy cavalry out" phase. It's very much a "finesse" strategy, not a brute strength one at all. It's also very effective: I have never lost a 1v1 match as Scythia (Doesn't say much since I don't play too many of those), and the only 2v2 I lost were the ones I had a very bad ally (In which the end results were always like this, even if I did all I could to help them):
Men Men lost Casualties inflicted
Ayra 540 535 1263
Ally 860 860 83
Enemy 740 632 720
Enemy 825 690 635
Yes it's smaller in men due to Wardogs only counting the handlers, and the Scythian Noblewomen being an undersized unit. It's also very fun to play :) I never saw anyone make a Scythia army remotely like mine: The few Scythia players I saw did an horrible 20 unit Scythian Noble / Scythian Noble Archers combination that just doesn't work too well... Scythia is about finesses, not headlong charges. I'll do my other armies later, but I definitively don't have as much in-dept (or succesful) strategies to offer for those factions :) Feel free to contribute yours!
What armies do you usually use, and what strategies do you usually use with it? I know it might be "revealing your secrets", but for one I don't mind.
I use Scythia mainly, alongside with Pontus, Thrace and Briton. I have a great record with Scythia, and... err... less so with the others :embarassed:. I tend to use different factions depending on the amount the host has set, because some factions don't work well with very low or very high denarii (100k denarii games with barbarian factions is pretty much suicide for example). I also play mostly 2v2: I love the cooperation part of the game, but I'll play 3v3 or 1v1 occassionally. I'll do my Scythia army first, I'll put the others later. Feel free to post yours!
****** SCYTHIA ******
Denarii amount: From 10k to 25k denarii (12.5k prefered, it's a perfect fit).
Army size: Anything but Small.
Army composition:
6 Head Hunting Maidens (Including general)
6 Scythian Noble Women
2 Scythian Nobles
2 Axemen
2 Warhounds
2 Chosen Archer Warband
Upgrades: Army is a perfect fit at 12.5k, so usually none. If higher denarii, priority is set to upgrade weapon on ranged units and warhounds, then fully upgrade Head Hunting Maidens.
Work best against:
Artilery-heavy armies.
20 cataphrac / 20 chariots / 20 cheap units armies.
Work fine against:
Pretty much any standard army setup: You are fine against any army type (that I faced up to now anyway).
Work worst against:
50k denarii and up armies, due to boosted urban cohorts and the like being unroutable. Completely unusable in Small unit size.
Strategy: Mobility is the key. There's 2 reasons for using Scythian Noble women instead of the "better" Scythian Noble Archers:
1) They are faster: Being able to disable the tribe before a charging cavalry and run away succesfully as the enemy cataphrac / praetorian cavalry (Nearly always those) is charging point blank is critical.
2) There's not enough female units, and I wanted to make a functional army with as many of them as I could. A 100% female army would be cheap beyond belief (100% cavalry), and I want both players to have fun, so this is the best compromise.
For Head Hunting Maidens, it's quite simple: Fastest unit in the game, and that beats Cataphracs and Praetorian cavalry handily. They will rout any and all horse archers without breaking a sweat. They are your most important units, so never throw them away.
My beginning army formation is VERY untiddy, but it is the most efficient for this army type. I place the 6 foot units together, next to my ally flank (Center when 1v1). Behind them some distance away, I have 2 Head Hunting Maiden + general maiden unit. I place a group of 3 Scythian Noble Women, 2 Head Hunting Maidens and 1 Scythian noble on the other extreme flank. At the center (or other flank in 1v1) I have the other 3 Scythian Noble Women, and behind them some distance, 1 Maiden and 1 noble.
The result is that the enemy has no clear place to charge, except for the foot army. The Chosen Archer Warbands are a charge magnet: If the enemy charge there, they get surrounded in seconds by the 3 separate cavalry groups, from all sides. If they don't, the archer warbands are very potent archers, and will cause good damage to the enemy during the whole battle. Late-game, they are decent melee too. The axemen are fast, strong "pinning" units: they will always hold long enough to do the maneuver you need. In late-game, they are also handy battle units.
Note that any of the following is only when facing "standard" armies: 20 cavalry units will charge at you, but you are faster than any of them. Make them in a nice little column while they pursue you and position your 3 cavalry regiment for flanking: You have many less units, but you can still surround them by making them in a big blob. Their other option is to charge your foot soldiers, which will hold any charge for some time (Axemen are soo underrated), which makes your flanking job even easier. Send in the dogs for morale penality when the huge enemy cavalry blob is surrounded, and viola! Instant victory. Now for the more interresing battles...
The key is deception, ambush and mobility. Since you don't have much firepower with this army, you need to have complete control of the match. Once you have disabled the enemy cavalry, you are free to do as you wish. Luring the enemy cavalry out is harder against good players, in which case you have to force them to do it. To force them, you need to gain the missile advantage. In short, be an annoyance. Take out enemy artilery first (if applicable): Send the dogs at them. It's a great deal, and you keep the handlers while they have nothing left. If the onagers are behind enemy lines, just shoot the crew with the Chosen Archers and the Noble Women, doing the tribe. Don't be afraid to be very close to enemy lines; the closer the better in fact. If the enemy has no art but lots of archers, same strategy, but send the dogs at them instead. When they send their cavalry to drive your horse archers out (They HAVE to), you have to make them overcommit, which is something Scythian Noblewomen do far better than Scythian Noble Archers. Stay in tribe mode until the last possible moment, then run away, preferably toward the center (If 6+ cavalry groups) or right toward the zone edge. Be sure that the enemy are mere inches from your noble women; it will make them pursue a second more, and that's all you need (Zone edge helps for that too). If you need more time for some reasons, make them catch one of your cavalry. If they don't commit at all, just keep shooting at them: they'll have to move sometime).
If it's a huge enemy group and that they might seem , send one Scythian Noble to charge at them head-on, to stop them.. Smack the Maidens on their flank. If they look like they are determined to pursue (Cataphrac and Praetorian cavalry users just don't understand that Head Hunting Maiden (ie. Light cavalry) can beat their "uber heavy cav"), just flank them directly. No matter what happen or what method you choose, you'll be hitting on both flanks at once.
Once that is done, you have control of the game... But you have to go carefully. You still don't have firepower: You have light cavalry best suited to beat other cavalry, with weak charge bonus, and your infantry aren't too strong. You can flank and encircle them and shoot them however: You have all these advantages. They will almost certainly now go for your foot units: Let them, and fight them.. Just make sure to always at least double charge from the back any unit (Dog handlers are engage the enemy in front): A mass charge at them will make you lose. It needs to be precision charge, and know how to disengage your cavalry very early: You need to keep your casualties to a minimum, since you don't have strong melee units. Don't be afraid to melee with your Noble Women and archer warbands either, if it will make a unit rout. Be precise and avoid meleeing for more than 10 seconds with your cavalry: If you have 2 units behind and enemy, it is better and safer to send one cavalry charge in, melee for 2-3 seconds (so they do damage but don't get entangled), pull back, and as soon as they move away, charge the other one in. Repeat. It saves lots of your precious Head Hunting Maidens. The matches aren't as long as my description might make it sound either: Usually, my Noble Women will still be at half ammunition by match end. I could definitively take much longer to shoot the enemy is down to their infantry (to save myself lots of casualties), but I don't want to drag the game and be too mean to my opponents... It's still a game and I want everyone to have fun: them being shot at by cavalry archers for 10 minutes when they have no hopes of ever catching them because they only have their infantry block left is certainly not fun for them. So I keep it at a minimum.
I highly recommend to keep an eye on your ally at all times: I nearly always send at least 2 Head Hunting Maidens to help my ally at some point: either to beat the enemy cavalry, to completely destroy their archer/skirmishers or to turn the tides on the main battle line. Your maidens are fast enough to be back on your side in an instant if you need them. I'll nearly always take out the artilery of both enemy armies if my ally seems like he/she would need help taking them out. And don't be afraid to send actually most of your army help your ally: No matter if your "designated" opponent becomes stronger than you because of it, the result is that it will be 2v1. With fast cavalry, helping your ally is easy.
And... I think I wrote more than enough :) The way I play my Scythia is VERY micro-intensive, especially during the "lure enemy cavalry out" phase. It's very much a "finesse" strategy, not a brute strength one at all. It's also very effective: I have never lost a 1v1 match as Scythia (Doesn't say much since I don't play too many of those), and the only 2v2 I lost were the ones I had a very bad ally (In which the end results were always like this, even if I did all I could to help them):
Men Men lost Casualties inflicted
Ayra 540 535 1263
Ally 860 860 83
Enemy 740 632 720
Enemy 825 690 635
Yes it's smaller in men due to Wardogs only counting the handlers, and the Scythian Noblewomen being an undersized unit. It's also very fun to play :) I never saw anyone make a Scythia army remotely like mine: The few Scythia players I saw did an horrible 20 unit Scythian Noble / Scythian Noble Archers combination that just doesn't work too well... Scythia is about finesses, not headlong charges. I'll do my other armies later, but I definitively don't have as much in-dept (or succesful) strategies to offer for those factions :) Feel free to contribute yours!