Stat_ground

[Jagger]

If someone wants to differentiate unit classes a bit more, you should be able to play with the stat_ground numbers in export_unit_description file.

I looked at the barbarians first. I noticed all infantry had the same combat modifers regardless of class. The modifiers are 2, -2, 3, 2. The Combat modifiers are for different ground types-from left to right: scrub, sand, forest, snow.

So whether loose formation barb peltasts or tight formation barb spears, both have the same +3 forest modifier for barbarians. I feel that loose formation velites would have an advantage fighting in forests in comparison to tight formation spears. So I upped peltasts combat modifier to 5 from 3.

I also noticed this same trend of nationalities having the same infantry ground modifiers by nationality. So I upped all javelin infantry by 2 across the board to give light troops an advantage in forests.

I may look at scrub terrain as well. I am assuming scrub is a rough terrain providing difficulties to units operating best on smooth ground. That might be another area for some differentiation between infantry types.

Just some ideas if someone wants to play with them.

[Red Harvest]

Thanks, I hadn't looked through those yet. I wonder if scrub is the "small trees" vs. the old growth "giant redwoods" as forest? If so I would derate several units (long spears, chariots, etc.) substantially in scrub. I wonder what the little bits of rocky terrain are classified as?

I wonder if the stat_ground combat modifier is only for melee or does it apply to missile attack as well? Peltasts should do well running about engaging, but their missile attack should be reduced. I assume/hope that the terrain effect on missiles is handled separately.

[Jagger]

I am assuming the stats are for melee combat only- since all infantry within a nationality type appear to have the same stats for each ground type.

And I am not sure how scrub is defined within the game. Or how to determine whether an area is scrub or not within the battle map.

[Red Harvest]

I am assuming the stats are for melee combat only- since all infantry within a nationality type appear to have the same stats for each ground type.

And I am not sure how scrub is defined within the game. Or how to determine whether an area is scrub or not within the battle map.

I have wondered it in the pre-battle deployment of custom battle we might be able to see the "scrub" effect reflected in the stats if the unit happens to stand on the right piece of turf. Haven't tested this though.

[Red Harvest]

It is surprising how small the terrain effects are for many units. Pikemen don't seem to take much of a hit for being in the woods and they get a bonus for scrub? I would think they would take a nasty penalty in the woods. Good luck swinging that pike around in woods or scrub and your formation would be busted. The game has high attack, charge, and defense parameters so that many of the terrain effects are so swamped as to be inconsequential. This is similar to the weak mount effects values. Looks like an area worthy of some modding...

[Encaitar]

Every infantry unit has +2 in scrub, as do all handler units. The only cavalry unit that does not have a 0 scrub modifier is the egyptian general's bodyguard, which has +2. Interestingly, the egyptian general's bodyguard early unit has a 0 modifier. Siege weapons also have a 0 scrub modifier.

[Jagger]

I think I am going to play around with the stats for the spear using units this morning. Reducing their abilities in forests.

I was trying to think of what types of units would have difficulty in snow. I suspect all classes would be equally affected negatively by snow. I wonder if snow is an additional modifier over forest and scrub. We can have forest and snow simultaneously.

I was still wondering about the definition of scrub. So I opened up some scrub TGA files in the data\battlefield\vegetation file. It includes some tree and bush images. So I am guessing scrub are the maps with small trees and bushes that we have all seen from time to time.

[aw89]

heavy troops would have a much harder time in snow then light, same is for sand.
barb horses (northern) would have a smaller - modifer in snow beacouse of the race they are, more "used" to it, (evolution vise) then those roman horses. (greece, macedonians and such also)

[Jagger]

Thanks AW, that makes sense.

I may adjust snow penalties based on armor levels and formation tightness.