Idea: Islam Total War

[alman7272]

Okay, I don't know anything about modding so I wouldn't be leading this mod, but I thought it would be a great idea if someone got a mod going centering around the Islamic (specifically the Abbasid) empire.

The landmass that the area would cover would be the Middle East (Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc) and down the East African coast including Sofala and Great Zimbabwe.

The timeframe I'm just sketching would be from the time of the first crusade (1095) until the fall of the Abbasid dynasty.

So if anyones interested, I and many others, would greatly appreciate your work.

(PS: This is just a rudimentary sketch, so obviously an Islam Mod would be more specific than what I listed).

[alman7272]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/alman9898/random/areacamp.png

This is a map that I just edited to show the area that could be covered. I don't know exactly the scope that R:TW can cover, so there definitely can be expansions to the west of Africa and to the east of Afghanistan (I believe eastern expansion would be much more favorable).

[King Yngvar]

The timeframe I'm just sketching would be from the time of the first crusade (1095) until the fall of the Abbasid dynasty.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that would be a very short timeframe...

[alman7272]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that would be a very short timeframe...

Baghdad fell in 1258. 1258-1095=163 years=326 turns. This was just a preliminary date that I came up with off the top off my head. Someone more informed than me would probably see a better date.

[King Yngvar]

Mongols took Bagdad in 1258 yes, I believed the Abbasids had fallen to Turks a little earlier, but I looked it up and was wrong...

[alman7272]

It looks like I'll need to come back later with a more impressive post.. any recommended readings for background history on this topic? I may not be able to provide significant modding help (I've never been a good modder. If I can, I'll try to learn how to add/edit factions), but I'd at least like to be able to offer a historical type of aid. Im particularly interested in the Christian kingdom in Ethiopia and any of the other significant Muslim kingdoms ruling (such as those in Afghanistan, etc.) and definitely the Abbasid/Turkish militaries.

I think the time period of 1095-1258 is a good timeframe atm, it may be a good idea to start a little bit before the first crusade, but I do not know if it's within modding capabilities to make Christian crusaders end up in Palestine.

[alman7272]

I'm seeking suggestions: would you rather see the map cover more of Africa or extend more into India?

Right now, I'm doing light research until I can get some quality resources to draw information from. Several empires/nations that could be used:

Great Seljuk
Kerman
Sultanate of Rum
Ghaznavid Empire
Byzantine Empire
Fatimid Empire
Several Indian factions
Several East African factions

It also might be a good idea to extend the end date to a later date or start earlier. Any suggestions? If I can get a good idea of what I should do, I'll be able to research better and provide a more attractive incentive for anyone interested..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Turks

[Myrddraal]

would you rather see the map cover more of Africa or extend more into India?

Why not both?

[alman7272]

Yeah, but how big can a campaign map be?

[CaeroxVII]

I think it would be posible to make a mod over a so short period thanks to myrdaals great invention!!!!


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=40178&page=1

~D

[CaeroxVII]

I just read through the whole thread and found this:

"Salvete Milites,

Not trying to be party-pooper here, but unless a practical fix is found for the 'no savegame' and 'recurring winter' problems... then it would seem that all further discussion about the potential of this 4 season scripting mod is just academic..

No one is going to put this into a campaign game if they can't save and reload the game later... and if the script falls apart after 5 or 6 turns and and every other turn is a winter turn with snow, then what's the point of have 4 seasons?

Valete, Dux of Earl"

So, that means that a it wont be that easy after all.... :embarassed:

[alman7272]

I still want to do this mod... just need to get my game back running again and my historical resources that I need to get.

[pyrocryo]

why not extend it further back.
say. . .from the rise of the Medina caliphate (Abu Bakr, Omar, Osman, Ali) then proceed to the Syrian Caliphate then the rise of the Abbasid.
We can have some nice battles there. The Persian once defeat the Islamic army with elephants (forgot the battle). The defeat of the Byzantine chain troops by the famous Khaled ibn Waleed on Yarmuk (three day battle!), Egyptian campaign, the destruction of the Persian, and many more.
It can act as a kind of bridge between RTW and MTW periods. Although then we need the Roman Empire mod, then Byzantine mod etc.

[alman7272]

I believe that the 1099-1258 period does offer a wider variety of factions, for me at least.

[King Yngvar]

Well I liked the idea of a starting date where the crusader state has just been established in Jerusalem. Time for some Jihad yes?

Keep it up, this will probably be an interesting mod.

However, including some of Europe would make it even more interesting as the Christians were the main enemy of Islam.

[alman7272]

If the map can stretch from Rome to Delhi, then thats what the map will be. However, Im not artist so I'm going to have to wait a bit before I get a map going. Also, I need to get some province names and cities.

[King Yngvar]

If the map can stretch from Rome to Delhi, then thats what the map will be.

Sounds nice, what about Spain? ~:)

[alman7272]

If it can get to Spain, then it could be included, esp. southern Spain

[Highland Storm]

The Abbassid Empire held North Africa and Iberia...
And you should start it in 750(end in 1258), when the Abbassid dynasty took over.
And for the last years of the Abbassids, they were just figurehead emperors. The real rulers were Turks.

[Highland Storm]

Also, I need to get some province names and cities.
Baghdad, Damascus, Tyre, Antioch, Corduba, Mecca, Cairo, Jerusalem
for cities

[alman7272]

Baghdad, Damascus, Tyre, Antioch, Corduba, Mecca, Cairo, Jerusalem
for citiesThese are the cities I've written down so far. I don't know about Corduba, unless the map stretches to spain.


Samarkand, Mogadishu, Mecca, Medina, Alexandria,
Damascus, Jerusalem, Aleppo,
Tbilisi, Ephesus, Antioch, Nicaea, Lahore,
Mosul, Nicomedia, Herat, Pachoras, Tyre

In addition to


Baghdad, Cairo (al-Qahira), Ghazna,
Constantinople, Sis,
Kutaisi, Dunqulah, Subah,

[alman7272]

The Abbassid Empire held North Africa and Iberia...
And you should start it in 750(end in 1258), when the Abbassid dynasty took over.
And for the last years of the Abbassids, they were just figurehead emperors. The real rulers were Turks.
The problem with starting in 750 is that an important period, the Crusades, will be completely neglected unless we can script invasions. And yes , I know the Turks were the real ones in power. So, should I just give the Abbasids the Iraq area and the Turks the rest of their empire?

[Byzantine Prince]

You shouldn't go too far south of Nrthern Africa or it'll be too big. You should focus on the near east, the byzantine empire, nrthern africa spain(all of it) and maybe parts of france. I'm not sure if i got something mixed up but this was how it hapened right.

http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/course/21/21h.580/www/bz/bz16.jpg

[alman7272]

What about India?

[Byzantine Prince]

I dont' know if you know this but India was Islamfied in 1300-1400 AD so if you're going to show that time period then you might as well go as far as to show the islamification of Indonesia which hapened in teh same time period. See, it doesn't fit. My map is a lot more compact. Alsthough i would go that far into Persia neither.

[King Yngvar]

An alternative idea would be to start in around 700. 11 years before the invasion of Spain :)

[alman7272]

Hmm. I don't know. Starting around 700 and using the map of Europe, NA, and the Middle East would be too similar to the Dark Ages mod imo. I'm still leaning towards starting during 1099. I'll be getting two books on the history of Islam for Xmas so we'll see.

[alman7272]

For the faction list, I've nearly finalized it.

Papacy
Crusader States
Holy Roman Empire
Spain
Great Seljuk/Abbasid Caliphate
Ghaznavid Empire
Danishmend Emirate
Sultanate of Rum/Iconium
Almoravids
Hammadids
Zirid Emirate
Byzantine Empire
Georgia
Fatimid Caliphate
Armenia
Hungary
Ethiopia
Alwah and Maqurrah
Berbers
(free)

As for cultures,

Roman Culture = Catholic (Western Christianity)

-Senate = Papacy

- Julii = Crusader States

- Brutii = Holy Roman Empire

- Scipii = Spain



Barbarian Culture = Sunni

-Britannia = Zirid

-Dacia = Ghaznavid Empire

-Gaul = Hammadid

-Germania = free

-Scythia = Almoravids

-Spain = Berbers



Greek Culture = Eastern Christianity (Orthodox/Eastern Catholic)

-Greek Cities = Byzantine Empire

-Seleucid Empire = Georgia

-Thrace = Hungary

-Macedon = Armenia



Egyptian Culture = Shi’a

-Egypt = Fatimid Caliphate



Phoenician Culture = African Christianity

-Carthage = Ethiopia

-Numidia = Christian States of Alwah and Maqurrah



Eastern Culture = Turkmen (Sunni)

-Parthia = Sultanate of Rum/Iconium, Roman Sultanate

-Armenia = Danishmend Emirate

-Pontus = Great Seljuk

I need one more Sunni faction now. I would include the Syrian turks, but I would need to free up a space in their culture. either that or I'd just put them under the general "sunni" culture line. What do you think? also, the generic berbers faction could use a unique flavor to it. I need a faction to represent central sub-saharan africa so that it isn't just easy picking for north african factions.. any suggestions? oh, and by eastern christianity, I know I shouldn't have grouped orthodox and catholic, but I really wanted to make room for some more muslim factions. open to suggestions. should I implement an abbasid faction based in iraq thats allied to the seljuks?

[Zafer]

Just be sure to give the Turks some Central Asian/Eastern flavor.

Alman Turkmusun?

[Zafer]

Just be sure to give the Turks some Central Asian/Eastern flavor.

Alman Turkmusun?

[Sundjata Keita]

I am working on a Medeival Africa mod that starts around your finishing date and I noticed some of the factions overlap, the berbers and the almoravids. I'm not sure if the units changed much but I could probably give you some information on or even the units of (when I have done them) of these factions. Also if you do go into Africa I should be able to give you some of the region and city names.
Also I have the arabs as one of my factions so maybee I could help there too?

[alman7272]

I am working on a Medeival Africa mod that starts around your finishing date and I noticed some of the factions overlap, the berbers and the almoravids. I'm not sure if the units changed much but I could probably give you some information on or even the units of (when I have done them) of these factions. Also if you do go into Africa I should be able to give you some of the region and city names.
Also I have the arabs as one of my factions so maybee I could help there too?Sure, I could use some city names/capitals and definitely units. Any building suggestions too? as well as some rebel names. Im still waiting for two books to arrive via mail ~:)