Time Commanders: Embarrassing to Watch

[Didz]

Caught another episode of the repeated series of Time Commanders last night. The Battle of Chalon between Attila's Hunnic Army and the Romans.

I was reminded of how painfully embarrassing Time Commanders was for certain teams who volunteered to take part. The team last night consisted of two officers and two NCO's from the Army Cadet Force and watching them fall apart under pressure set your teeth on edge. The senior officer seemed to literally go to pieces under the pressure and became unable to form a coherent sentence let alone a clear instruction by the time the battle reached its peak. The two NCO's were clearly less than inspired by his leadership, one (Pat) began acting completely without orders and left the troops controlled by the other (Chris) to stand and get massacred without support whilst (Chris) seemed to be unwilling to use his initiative at all, or to explain to his battle shocked commander exactly what was happening to his men.

The other memorable team were a bunch of Local Politicians from a strategic planning committee in Milton Keynes who seemed completely unable to plan anything and considered the distaster they created to be highly amusing. Not good news for Milton Keynes and small wonder the city practically went bankrupt last year.

The best team I recall was a team of female netball players who knew nothing about ancient warfare but actually managed to communicate so well they won.

My motto is if you are judged in anyway upon your ability to lead, manage or work as a team, avoid going on Time Commanders like the plague, because if you have any weaknesses in your abilities you can be sure the entire country is going to witness them ably demonstrated on national TV during the course of the game.

[MAsta_KFC]

Damn, I wish there time commanders here in Australia. I watched a *coughdownloadedcough* episode once and it was quite amusing to say the least. All the other episodes sound interesting too.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Time Commanders is quite funny. It just goes to show, good things do happen to the british peoples.

[Didz]

I heard that participants were screened to elminate anyone with an interest in wargaming or military history (so how a team of Army Cadet Officers got through is anybodies guess) but some of the idea's the teams come up with a really amusing.

One guy based his entire strategy on the film 'Ben Hur', not surprisingly he lost. Another came up with the idea that Romans fought best in thin red lines, as per Waterloo, he lost.

Then there was the team who thought it made sense to sort their army into troops classes. All the archers on one hill, all the infantry on another and all the cavalry on a third. They Lost.

There was the team who thought if they concentrated their entire Roman army on the task of killing Boudicca then the Brits would turn tail and run. They did kill Boudicca but the Brits didn't run.

Last night we were treated to the spectacle of Hun Horse Archers being used in static defense and accepting close quarter battle with Roman Infantry Cohorts, whilst Gallic Infantry were shot to pieces by Roman Archers elsewhere on the field.

Then there was the team who were so obsessed with the Roman ability to form what they called 'Turtles' that they insisted on all their infantry fighting the entire battle in testudo formation, even making them reform it when the formation was auto-overridden by the AI in order to enable the unit to fight back.

There was the team of school children led by their history teacher, who bascially rebelled against their self-appointed leader as soon as the battle began and won despite his crap strategy. That one was fun to watch becuase being younger they didn't feel the need to suppress their emotions in front of the camera's so there was loads of shouting and cheering and the teacher just got told to shut-up.

To be honest the battles aren't that interesting but the effect they have on the teams playing them is the real entertainment, you can see the stress levels rising as the battle progresses and like last night the affect on some people is amazing. I would hate to be under command of the Army Officer in charge of the Hun Army in that battle, the bottom line was that when the sh*t hit the fan he quite literally went to pieces and couldn't even articulate properly. In a real battle it would have been a bullet in the back of the head job and let the NCO's take over.

[Mikeus Caesar]

There was the team of school children led by their history teacher, who bascially rebelled against their self-appointed leader as soon as the battle began and won despite his crap strategy.

What was the teachers supposedly crap strategy?


That one was fun to watch becuase being younger they didn't feel the need to suppress their emotions in front of the camera's so there was loads of shouting and cheering and the teacher just got told to shut-up.

I'd hate to think how much detention they got after that.....i told a teacher to shut up and nearly got permanent detention.

[Didz]

What was the teachers supposedly crap strategy?

I can't recall, to be honest, I remember him making a decent job of briefing the childen prior to the battle starting but as soon as the first arrow flew the children just went for it. If I remember rightly his second in command was a girl and she basically took over and starting shouting orders to the guys on the ground and he could hardly get a word in edgeways.

I think the problem a lot of the teams have is that they assume the battle will be something like chess, where there will be time to sit and think and discuss things but as soon the the AI begins moving it just keeps going and that catches a lot of the teams totally offguard.

Amazingly this seems to catch the more professional players, like the Army Officers and Strategic Planners out the most perhaps because they seem to need time to think before acting. Children and sports teams seem to do better because they are used to interacting with each other and responding quickly to events.

[Ar7]

I heard that participants were screened to elminate anyone with an interest in wargaming or military history (so how a team of Army Cadet Officers got through is anybodies guess) but some of the idea's the teams come up with a really amusing.

One guy based his entire strategy on the film 'Ben Hur', not surprisingly he lost. Another came up with the idea that Romans fought best in thin red lines, as per Waterloo, he lost.

Then there was the team who thought it made sense to sort their army into troops classes. All the archers on one hill, all the infantry on another and all the cavalry on a third. They Lost.

There was the team who thought if they concentrated their entire Roman army on the task of killing Boudicca then the Brits would turn tail and run. They did kill Boudicca but the Brits didn't run.

Last night we were treated to the spectacle of Hun Horse Archers being used in static defense and accepting close quarter battle with Roman Infantry Cohorts, whilst Gallic Infantry were shot to pieces by Roman Archers elsewhere on the field.

Then there was the team who were so obsessed with the Roman ability to form what they called 'Turtles' that they insisted on all their infantry fighting the entire battle in testudo formation, even making them reform it when the formation was auto-overridden by the AI in order to enable the unit to fight back.

There was the team of school children led by their history teacher, who bascially rebelled against their self-appointed leader as soon as the battle began and won despite his crap strategy. That one was fun to watch becuase being younger they didn't feel the need to suppress their emotions in front of the camera's so there was loads of shouting and cheering and the teacher just got told to shut-up.

To be honest the battles aren't that interesting but the effect they have on the teams playing them is the real entertainment, you can see the stress levels rising as the battle progresses and like last night the affect on some people is amazing. I would hate to be under command of the Army Officer in charge of the Hun Army in that battle, the bottom line was that when the sh*t hit the fan he quite literally went to pieces and couldn't even articulate properly. In a real battle it would have been a bullet in the back of the head job and let the NCO's take over.

~:eek: think if they were real generals..... ~:handball:

[Didz]

I can remember the strategy from last nights battle Huns v Romans.

Attilla's army was mostly Hun Horse Archers with a few Gallic Warbands and two units of heavy cavalry. The Late Roman army it faced was about equal in numbers but mainly infantry cohorts supported by Alan Mercenary Cavalry.

The battlefield was open rolling countryside with a small hill to the right centre about mid-way between the two armies and a large wood running down the right hand side.

The ACF Officer (Neil) decided that the hill was the key to victory and
that it had to be taken and held by his Hun army. When battle opened the Huns ran for the hilltop expecting to be racing the Romans to get there, but they arrived to find the Romans hadn't moved.

The Gallic Infantry were deployed on the hilltop with the horse archers behind them in support and everyone sat back and waited for the Romans to attack. Pat, (one of the NCO's) got impatient and requested permission to move the Heavy Cavalry through the woods on the right and to attack the Roman Army in the flank. He got permission and the HC moved off into the woods.

Meanwhile the Romans realising they were not going to be attacked decided to move their archers forward and start picking off the lightly armoured gauls on the top of the hill. The Gauls began dying very quickly whilst the Hun horse archers sat on their horses and watched. Chris the NCO in charge of the Gauls ordered his own gallic archers to advance and return fire and got his wrist slapped by Niel for exposing his men to undue risk.

Pat said 'Don't worry sir my cavalry will charge into their flank and roll them up.' Which was actually rubbish as his cavalry were now behind the Roman left flank and the Roman archers were miles away on the forward slope of the hill. But it was what Neil wanted to hear so he got approval and Neil decided that nothing further needed to be done and so the Gauls continued to die pointlessly on top of the small hill.

Pat's heavy cavalry charged out of the woods into the Roman left flank routing a unit of Roman cavalry and causing considerable confusion but being completely unsupported soon found itself surrounded by Roman Infantry and driven off back into the woods with heavy losses.

Now, the Roman General having probably run out of arrows and with very little left alive on the hill anyway decided to advance his infantry up the slope in two lines. The Roman first line easily drove the Gauls off the hilltop much to Neils confusion as he thought he had ordered the hilltop to be held. Chris tried to point out that this was because all his infantry were dead or routed but Neil merely told him to regroup and retake it, observing a few minutes later that the Roman's still held it, to be told once again that this was because the Gallic infantry were dead and routed.

Neil "The Romans have taken the hill."
Chris "Yes Sir, the Gallic infantry are dead or routing."
Niel "We must retake the hill."
Chris "I have no men left."
Neil "Regroup, and attack."
Chris "My men are routing, Sir."
Neil "We must retake the hill."

This nonesense went on for some time whilst the Romans reformed on the hilltop unopposed. Then Chris clearly fed up with Neils total inability to grasp the tactical situation committed two units of horse archers to charge one of the units of Roman Heavy Infantry. They got slaughtered and were then chased off the map by the Alan Cavalry. The only effect was to glavanise the Romans into further action and they now advanced en-masse down the reverse slope of the hill towards the remaining Hunnic Horse Archers.

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Chris gritted his teeth and did nothing.

The Roman infantry walk over the Hun Horse Archers and destroy them in detail. The Alan cavalry notice Attilla standing about on his own with dazed look on his face muttering about a hill and kill him.

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Chris "I have no men left"
Neil "Regroup and attack."
Chris [silence]

Pat "Don't worry sir! I have 40 cavalry left I will charge and retake the hill."
Neil "Yes. We must retake the hill." [dazed look on face]

Pat's 40 surviving Heavy Cavalry charge out of the wood into the middle of the Roman infantry and die.

Neil "We must retake the hill."

The Alan cavalry are now chasing fleeing Huns off the field and massacring them like rabbits.

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Silence.
Neil "Regroup quickly and attack."
Silence.
Neil "The Romans have captured the hill."

Defeat: End of Game

Presenter: "What do you think went wrong?"
Neil "The Romans took the hill."

[Brutal DLX]

Presenter: "What do you think went wrong?"
Neil "The Romans took the hill."

Lol. This, and that Neil was in charge. :)

[Kommodus]

I heard that participants were screened to elminate anyone with an interest in wargaming or military history (so how a team of Army Cadet Officers got through is anybodies guess) but some of the idea's the teams come up with a really amusing.

Not exactly. At the battle of Gaugamela, the team of friends had all been interested in wargaming in the past, and even had some knowledge of Alexander's battles. They formed a good strategy, and in spite of some problems in its execution, won quite convincingly.


One guy based his entire strategy on the film 'Ben Hur', not surprisingly he lost.

I'm not sure which episode this one is; I seem to remember seeing it, but I can't remember which battle they were fighting.


Another came up with the idea that Romans fought best in thin red lines, as per Waterloo, he lost.

This was the battle of Watling Street (Romans versus Boudicea's revolt). The team did the opposite of the right thing at every opportunity, and to top it off, was incapable of effective communication due to constant arguing. The thin Roman lines were shattered by British chariots.


Then there was the team who thought it made sense to sort their army into troops classes. All the archers on one hill, all the infantry on another and all the cavalry on a third. They Lost.

I think you're referring to Bibracte, in which the team divided their army according to which troops each lieutenant commanded. Incidentally, this resulted in most of the heavy infantry in one location, while the light infantry and cavalry were in a separate location. The massive Helvetii army went straight for the weaker section, with the light infantry, and smashed it completely. However, when they advanced on the Roman heavy infantry, the team's defensive formation repelled them and routed them completely. The team won.


There was the team who thought if they concentrated their entire Roman army on the task of killing Boudicca then the Brits would turn tail and run. They did kill Boudicca but the Brits didn't run.

This was another event in the battle of Watling Street. They fixated on this strategy as a last-ditch attempt, when their other units were being isolated, surrounded, and destroyed. They sent their General's cavalry to attack Boudicea's chariots, but even this attack failed. Aided by some of her infantry, Boudicea survived.


Then there was the team who were so obsessed with the Roman ability to form what they called 'Turtles' that they insisted on all their infantry fighting the entire battle in testudo formation, even making them reform it when the formation was auto-overridden by the AI in order to enable the unit to fight back.

Once again, this was from the battle of Watling Street. They thought the testudo was intended for close-quarters combat, instead of for repelling missile weapons (of which the British had none).

Some teams actually executed good strategies, and managed to fight entertaining battles. Battles such as Raphia, Gaugamela, and Trebia are examples of this. Even some defeated teams showed some ability, such as those who fought at Adrianople and Mons Grapius (both tough fights to begin with). Then there were the teams that won desperate battles by discovering the one key concept and sticking to it, such as at Leuctra, Tigranocerta, and Bibracte. Finally, there were the teams that were clueless in defeat, which are the most-often mentioned; these battles include Chalon, Watling Street, Marathon, and Telamon.

[Crownsteler]

Just wondering, on what channel are these reruns? I live in holland and i can recieve BBC 1 & 2 here, but I'm never able to find it an announcement in the tv guid :S could you please tell me when it is? :) and pls don't tell me it isn't on bbc 1 or 2 anymore! ;)

[Didz]

Not exactly. At the battle of Gaugamela, the team of friends had all been interested in wargaming in the past, and even had some knowledge of Alexander's battles. They formed a good strategy, and in spite of some problems in its execution, won quite convincingly.

Crumbs! You remember things a lot more clearly than I can, anyone would think you were on the Time commanders production team or something ~;)

I can never remember the names of the battles as I'm more interested in watching the team dynamic's under pressure.

[Axeknight]

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Silence.
Neil "Regroup quickly and attack."
Silence.
Neil "The Romans have captured the hill."

Defeat: End of Game

Presenter: "What do you think went wrong?"
Neil "The Romans took the hill."
~D Wish I'd seen that one now!

My favourite moment (if I remember it right) was a battle where the team were playing as the Parthians (I think, they had Cataphracts anyway). They were defending a river ford (having just got there in time to stop the Romans crossing). At a crucial point in the battle the NCO with the cavalry asked if they could please charge the Catas now, since the Romans were about to break through.
The Generals said "Charge with half of them, we need to keep some back just in case."
"Are you sure you don't want to attack with all of them?" asks the host, "The factfile at the start said they were best used en masse as shock troops."
"No, we need to keep half of them back... just in case."
Up in the box, Aryeh's going nuts "NO! For God's sake! Don't use your mailed fist in dribs and drabs, you'll have them killed!"
"Shouldn't we attack with all the cataracts?" asks the NCO, who can't pronounce Cataphracts
"No, keep half the Phata... Caphta... Catpharac... Ca... Horse guys back, just in case" replies the general, who can't pronounce it either.

The NCO charged with all of the Cataphracts, and won.

[Arrowhead]

Just wondering, on what channel are these reruns? I live in holland and i can recieve BBC 1 & 2 here, but I'm never able to find it an announcement in the tv guid :S could you please tell me when it is? :) and pls don't tell me it isn't on bbc 1 or 2 anymore! ;)

I think it is on uktv history channel.
But i'm not sure.

[the Count of Flanders]

My fave episode was Romans vs Barbarians (could be the Bouddica one, can't remember). Players are the romans. Romans are outnumbered 3-1 but have superior quality troops and a nicely defendable spot high on a hill with forests covering the flanks. What does the team decide to do? All-out attack!!! The romans come running down the hill in true barbarian Braveheart style on a nice wide front, of course within moments they get isolated, surrounded and finished off. I laughed my ass off. ~D

[Kommodus]

Didz, I actually still have most of the TC videos on my PC; I had downloaded them before the authorities forced the TW Center to remove them. That's why I remember them so clearly. ~:)

Axeknight, Tigranocerta was a pretty good battle (it was actually the Armenians, not the Parthians). In addition to cataphracts, they had huge numbers of inferior infantry, including spearmen, archers, slingers, and peasants with javelins, but no horse archers.

The team's army actually started too far away to effectively contest the ford crossing, and they didn't help matters by sending only one small unit of archers to hold up the Romans. This unit did reach the hill next to the ford in time to pick off a few Roman infantry and cavalry, but was soon cut to pieces by Roman legionaires (it should've been the Roman cavalry). The Roman army was able to cross the ford in relative safety.

While the rest of the Armenian army rumbled towards the ford, the team argued about how to use their cataphracts, which were still kept in reserve. It was one of the lieutenants (Emma) who suggested that they "attack with some of them and see what impact they have," and one of the generals (Leann) immediately got on board with that idea. The other general, Billy, basically told them to do whatever they wanted with the cataphracts. (The host never actually questioned their plan, but Aryeh, of course, criticized it thoroughly.) Thus, they settled on a plan to send half the cataphracts around the Roman army and attack it from behind.

This plan was never actually executed - but not because anyone in the team recognized it was flawed. The Armenian army had reached the hill next to the ford, and was facing a Roman cavalry charge. The Armenian peasants fled, and the battle line was in trouble. Billy redirected the cataphract force sent to outflank the Romans to instead attack the threatening Roman cavalry. This move was successful, and the Roman cavalry was utterly smashed.

However, the Roman infantry was now advancing up the hill towards the cataphracts. Billy recognized the danger to the flanks of the cataphracts, and sensibly withdrew them, joining them up with the rest of the cataphracts who had been left behind. Once they were all together, he ordered a full charge with the entire cataphract force, intending to surround the Romans and destroy them. This plan was mostly successful, and despite losses to the cataphracts, they drove back the Roman offensive and destroyed most of the cohorts. Several mass charges with vast numbers of infantry finished off the outnumbered Roman infantry.

Thus, even though the team was rather boring and mostly clueless, a little luck and a few key decisions by Billy enabled them to win. It did come down to proper use of their cataphracts. (BTW, every member of the team consistently pronounced the word "cataracts.")

[Kraxis]

I must say I was most impressed with the guys fighting Raphia and Gaugamela, even Trebia was done very well.
The girls that won at Leuctra did one thing right, they soundly deducted that the Spartans own infantry were key to victory. Basically everything else they did was wrong.
They managed to get mauled by the outnumbered and lower quality Spartan cavalry, broke formation to deal with them, left their best troops at home and even managed to engage the Spartans piecemeal. Their best maneauver, the attack on the rear of the Spartan Hoplites, only happened because the handler (crew) kept the troops in line and didn't follow his orders to the letter (and attack the Spartans head on). Even worse the two generals seemed very confused about the battle and had a very hard time dealing with new events.

They simply won because the battle was rigged for a victory. Naturally if they hadn't chosen to beat the Spartan Hoplites, then they would have lost, but come on, they were out in the open and very inviting to attack.
I simply don't understand why people are so impressed with them. ~:confused:

Raphia was a much much more well balanced battle, with no 'locked' troops as in Leuctra. There the team acted and reacted very well. Especially their action against the elephants. They didn't just gang up on them, but rather chose to kill them from afar and with light infantry... Perfect! And their cavalry and elephant maneuvers were also very good, if somewhat overcomplicated (they merely tried something beyond their capabilities of command).

Gaugamela was balanced towards the team, but still they almost perfectly copied Alexander, and even recognized the same weaknesses in the Persian line. That Alexander himself died was not important, the team had understood the battle best of all perhaps, but were perhaps not the best in the implemention.

[master of the puppets]

dude you brits are so lucky to get that show mabey i can get a few copies on ebay :dizzy2: i wish just one person on this forum could go on and show the plebians of the world the true arts of a general ~D

[aw89]

Damn, I just want to watch a episode before i consider buying the series, could someone PM a link to an episode please?

[Kraxis]

dude you brits are so lucky to get that show mabey i can get a few copies on ebay :dizzy2: i wish just one person on this forum could go on and show the plebians of the world the true arts of a general ~D

Actually there was a show with two generals (real ones from the Gulf War) slugging it out as Alexander against Hannibal.
They didn't have the same kind of control as the teams had in TC, but they did move the troops about in great style. Not a single unit was directly mismoved, everything was planned. When something went wrong for one of them it was due to the other general's maneuvering pulling in the first one's troops and thus leaving his intended maneauver a bit offset. I tell you it looked great to see proven generals dish out damage like that.

[Kommodus]

The girls that won at Leuctra did one thing right, they soundly deducted that the Spartans own infantry were key to victory. Basically everything else they did was wrong.

I think you're being a little hard on the Leuctra team. Their reaction to the Spartan cavalry was pretty rough, but in the end it was good enough to repel the attack, and it didn't matter that they had broken formation to do it, since they simply brought their army back together and proceeded with the battle. It's true that sending their weak infantry in piecemeal waves against the far superior Spartan hoplites squandered a great many troops, but it didn't matter, since they had grasped the one key concept, which was to concentrate their entire force against the Spartan hoplites. The Sacred Band was certainly held back far too long, but in the end it was deployed in time, even if only because the Spartans also held back most of their allies for a ridiculously long time. The Spartans did, in fact, use some of their allies, and the team did a nice job of meeting this threat, and even used some well-timed cavalry charges into their rear. Overall, it was one of the easier battles, but the team won because they grasped the one key concept.

Yes, the Raphia team did a good job with their battle; in the end, that was my favorite episode. However, they made their share of mistakes; sending their initial force of elephants and cavalry unsupported against the Silver Shield pikemen's rear turned what could've been a decisive victory into a pyric victory. Their plan was passable, but the execution and reaction to the enemy's plans was what won them the battle. Their reaction to the initial Seleucid elephant attack, and their final elephant charge into the enemy phalanx's rear, were near-flawless maneuvers which won them the battle.

The team at Gaugamela, by contrast, had an excellent plan, but had some relatively serious execution problems. The right-flank cavalry really was much too far ahead of the infantry, and ended up fighting against Persian cavalry and infantry for a long time; this is what led to Alexander's death. The team used light infantry (skirmishers) to support the Companions against the Persian cavalry in hand-to-hand combat, which seems rather foolish to me. They lost their entire left flank of cavalry to the Persian horsemen, which also butchered the team's archers that had been left alone, well behind the team's left. The loss of their left flank covering force proved a problem later in the battle, when the Persian cavalry was able to launch a rear attack on the left flank of pikemen (unlike Alexander, they had not come up with the idea to refuse that flank). This cost them a lot of men. A major contributing factor to their victory was the simple fact that their troops were far superior to the Persians, both in fighting ability and in morale.

The most decisive and impressive victory I saw was at Trebia, where the team led Carthage to a convicing victory over Rome. They were certainly helped by their elephants rampaging through Roman ranks and causing chaos and destruction, but their plans had a lot of merit, and they really managed to destroy the Roman army while keeping their mostly intact. Other than mis-timing their ambush and using some slingers in hand-to-hand combat, they committed no serious errors.

I'm with the many here who have wanted to see a team of experienced TW players fight a TC battle. With solid experience in battlefield maneuvers, we wouldn't see so many novice errors. Now that would be a sight to see.

[anti_strunt]

I'm with the many here who have wanted to see a team of experienced TW players fight a TC battle. With solid experience in battlefield maneuvers, we wouldn't see so many novice errors. Now that would be a sight to see.

"What? No heavy onagers?? No flaming arrows??? What is this ****!"
"Oh, well. At least we still have our ironskin axemen and egyptian chariots, right? Right?"
~;)

[tai4ji2x]

hey Kommodus:

any chance for you to use emule/edonkey...? still trying to get some eps... ~D ~:cool:

[Akka]

Thanks to this thread, I took interest in these Time Commanders episodes.

I don't regret it, it's really much more interesting than what I had imagined :)

I've seen the battle of Raphia, and it was very entertaining. Cannae was also fun. The team lost, but honestly, the battle seemed quite hard, considering the infantry juggernaut the Romans had.
Leuctra was fun to watch too (God, seeing this show REALLY put you in a mood to launch another RTW campaign ^^). The comments and description of the battle were extremely immersive, but there is one thing that damaged considerably the pleasure : it seems that the battle has been horribly rigged for the team victory.
I don't know if it was an incredibly bad move of the AI, or a set up, but it was close to ridiculous : the Spartan hoplites were alone in the wild, far ahead of the rest of their forces, asking for being surrounded and crushed, and they fought the battle practically alone. There were several THOUSANDS of allied hoplites that didn't even move a foot in the battle. Not one man out of three was commited to the battle. Who would fight a battle with only a third of his forces ? 0_o
Considering how badly the battle was managed, I found it bordering on the insult to see the team winning. They accumulated mistakes over mistakes, and their few successes (envelopping the Spartan hoplites) were only possible because the enemies forces didn't move at all until it was too late. Amazing...

I hope that the other battles are more like Cannae and Raphia, with no cheating to help the team.

[tai4ji2x]

Kommodus: you have PM

[Smaug-V]

I found it bordering on the insult to see the team winning.

I thought the same about the Tigranocerta battle. Sometimes victory seems to "happen" whether the teams do anything right or not. The team in this particular episode had no plan whatsoever, kept calling the cataphracts "cataracts", and still won. They outnumbered the romans something silly like 10 to 1.

[Yoshitsune]

Wasn't it also the case that at some point in the series the generals received an lcd table-top overhead of the battle complete with the real-time position and movement of the units? Certainly the Leuctra team had it and they were able to see units standing around doing nothing, enemy threats etc whereas in the earlier episodes they had to tell the operator to move the camera around and zoom in/out on the big screen at the front...

[tai4ji2x]

kommodus, you still there? :sad: :embarassed:

[Templar Knight]

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Chris "I have no men left"
Neil "Regroup and attack."
Chris [silence]

Pat "Don't worry sir! I have 40 cavalry left I will charge and retake the hill."
Neil "Yes. We must retake the hill." [dazed look on face]

Pat's 40 surviving Heavy Cavalry charge out of the wood into the middle of the Roman infantry and die.

Neil "We must retake the hill."

The Alan cavalry are now chasing fleeing Huns off the field and massacring them like rabbits.

Neil "We must retake the hill."
Silence.
Neil "Regroup quickly and attack."
Silence.
Neil "The Romans have captured the hill."

Defeat: End of Game

Presenter: "What do you think went wrong?"
Neil "The Romans took the hill."

pmsl ~D ~D

hahahaha

[Silver Rusher]

I wonder how well Nusbachar would do if he was the general and all the other historians were lieutenants and one general. I reckon they would argue so much that their troops would get massacred.

[Kraxis]

I wonder how well Nusbachar would do if he was the general and all the other historians were lieutenants and one general. I reckon they would argue so much that their troops would get massacred.

Hehe... I read an interview with him and he mentioned that he and I think it was that Saul guy had actually fought a battle. They had instantly agreed on the tactic and had won, but they had sacrificed their troops to a great extent, as "that was what happened". He seemed quite humoured by the fact that they hadn't been able to go beyond it, and he was certain it wouldn't be fun for us to watch as they didn't argue or bicker at all, they just let it all happen, good or bad.

I said the girls at Leuctra got the one important thing right, but the rest was mismanaged to the extreme. Since the AI was rigged to no be able to use all its troops unless time or something else happened it was rather easy to cover up even big mistakes. If the Spartans had been in the battlelines rather than out front I don't think the girls had won... Simple as that. There would have been no wrapping round (where the most of the Spartans losses came) and their mistakes would have cost them dearly.

At Raphia I understand that it was not perfect, their did make mistakes, but I think most of them had to do with the game rather than the commanders ability to understand the situation. The initial cavalry and elephant charge on the left was successful but the rallied Seleucid cavalry kept harrying them eliminating the gains. It seems those troops were very wellhandled compared to those at Leuctra or most of the others battles for that matter (Marathon was a perfect show by the AI though). As I said the mistakes were mainly due to differences from reality in the game.
To beat a foe superior in elephants, cavalry and phalanx troops and to do so with 4 people with different opinions and no previous experience of such situations... Well it is nothing short of extraordinary.

Gaugamela, while great is not the equal of Raphia. Indeed the Persian troops were simply that much worse (but have you noticed how the teams phalanxes worked much better in terms of flankprotection than ours do when in formation or even just the attack was better). But the team almost perfectly copied Alexander (one gets the feeling one of the teammembers knew Gaugamela from history), and it turned out again that the game differed from reality. The left flank cavalry was supposed to have been enough, and it was to Alexander, but here it was just swamped. The right side charge got so far ahead because of a simple thing we have noticed ourselves when we got the game: Charging and running cavalry are very fast, especially compared to phalanx troops. I'm quite certain that we would have made the exact same mistake given our experiences with MTW. The archers were disposable and they did in fact tie up Persian cavalry for a significant period of time.

Trebia was definately great, but I never got the same "WOW" feeling when I saw it (possibly because I saw it after Raphia and Gaugamela). It just felt that they had bitten off more than they could chew. The plan was very sound though.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Can't remember the battle but it may have been telamon:

Celts attacked on all sides and are destroyed

Eddie mair: "Well lets talk about what went right..........now lets talk about what went wrong!"


The worse team was the watling street one, god that made me laugh. The fat scouser who talked out of his arse for an near hour made me cringe and hoped Nusbacher would cut him down with a gladius ~D