Research: Ships

[Silver Rusher]

I have opened this thread up to discuss how to handle ships. What I want to happen here is that the player will not just go along with the traditional TW style of just bunging every good ship he/she has into a single fleet and using that to anilate every other fleet it comes across. This was OK for RTW, as in that period ships were not nearly as important as they would be in this era. The way I think this should be done is the following: by modifying the ships in such a way that it isn't just a scale, where the worst ships are at the bottom of the tree and the better ones at the top, but where the ships at the bottom have stats quite different to the more advanced levels. What I plan to do is have the lower level ships actually faster (but less militarily capable) than the higher up levels, but the higher levels are far, far superior in their military ability. This is how it will work:

There will be four levels. Levels 1 and 2 will be what we will know as "Light Ships" whereas 3 and 4 will be "Heavy Ships". As explained earlier, heavy ships will be slower and stronger and light ships will be faster and weaker, and less capable in deeper seas (if that is possible). Note: The levels will coincide with the Military Slide, which I am about to open up a thread for. An example of the Castilian tech tree (if you have any comments or suggestions please tell me so).

Level 1: Galley

Level 2: Barque

Level 3: Galleon

Level 4: Royal Galleon

And I must also compose tech trees for all the other factions as well. Please help me in this thread by letting me and the team know of ships that were used by other factions.

Thanks,
SR

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Sounds good, but I am no expert on ships of this time period.....

[Suleimen the Magnificent]

I think that idea is somewhat flawed. I think that Roundships should have High defense stats and mdeium attack and that Galley-types should have high attack and low defense. I'm too slack to explain now.

GALLIA SOTIL (Ordinary Galley)
Spanish
The most powerful of the 'ordinary galleys' in front on combat due to the large number of soldiers carried. They are rowed alla scaloccio (generally four men to an oar, 3 slaves and 1 freeman), and are the slowest of their type.
Over long distance, under sail, they are to slowest of the gallia sottil.

Venetian
The Venetian galleys were rowed alla sensile (that is one man to an oar (gruoped in three banks), all free oarsmen) and were on the short hual the fastest as a result, it is not unreasonable to expect them to make 7 knots for about two miles. They have a resonable amount of combat power owning to their generally superior gun armament. Under sail the are the second fastest of the gallia sottil.

Ottoman & North African
The Musilm galleys are the hardest to place becuase in formal head on fleet engagement they were at a severe disadvatage to the heavier built Christian galleys, but once the battle degenerated a general melee their great mavorability, in comparison to even the Venetians, ment they could cut off and capture their opponents with ease. They are the fastest gallia sotti under sail. For the most part they were rowed alla scaloccio.

GALIOT
North African
North African galoits tended to be the best armed. In fact they were often confused galleys over long distances. They were usually rowed by free oarsmen who could swing a sword or shoot a bow in a boarding action or coastal raid. Most had between sixty and eighty oarsmen along with around fifty soldiers.

Ottoman/Venetian/Spainsh
No idea. Will read a bit more on it tonight.

Will write more later.

[Silver Rusher]

No, I don't think you really understand the point. The idea is that the lower level ships are not just gotten rid of when the higher ones come, and are instead used in different fleets, making the player think more before he builds his navy.

[SwordsMaster]

What about carracs or caravels? The ships America was discovered on and Africa was circled for the first time in history. The ships that went around the world. Come on!

My suggestion is you substitute the Barque for the Carrack (portuguese), and caravel (spain). the caravel is slightly lighter and faster than the carrack, but has a little less guns as well.

The venetians should get a better barque as well, they were "famous" for the resistance of this type of ships.


BTW, anyone found out if it is possible to make the fleets transport just as many units as there are ships. Its a bit unrealistic if a galley could transport a 1000 men army...... (as it happens)

[Yggdrasill]

BTW, anyone found out if it is possible to make the fleets transport just as many units as there are ships. Its a bit unrealistic if a galley could transport a 1000 men army...... (as it happens)

I agree. However, the devs might do it themselves in the upcoming patch, they got a lot of flak because of this feature.

By the way, Silver, is this patch going to present a problem for the mod? Will it be compatible with whatever you've done already?

[Silver Rusher]

Hopefully it will be compatible Yggdrasill. We will just have to wait and see.

[Ignoramus]

I've found some admirals in the time period.

[Tribolute]

I actually saw it as a 1000 man fleet escorted by a single galley.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

But the 1k m en could still fight back. You do not need the best naval weaponry to fight on the high seas, they could still ram or board an enemy vessel...

[Saranalos]

yeah I hate it when I have 1 ship with a full unit card army and about 1200 men attack my 140 men ship and if I included the army id have more men than them and better trained too.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, it would be especially ironic if that included uber trained and equipped Cretan Archers.

[Saranalos]

Yeah it would wouldnt it....
I tried a battle with gold everything Cretan Archers and they did so much damage....(Not that this is related to anything of course)

[Tribolute]

And again, i would have seen the transport ships as simple canvas roofed wood tubs with oars. Not very battle worthy :P.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Still bows would be able to play a part in the battle in sufficient numbers. 1000 bows fired from all sides will make a dent.